Getting some kind of "CUT"

[Alexsered]

I've been getting some kind of "cut off" in the engine when it's cold outside and i'm WOT at 4-redline RPM's. I just replaced spark plugs with denso's, and thought it was going to fix this issue, but it didnt.

What happens is I will go WOT and when I get to the higher RPMs, the engine for a split second cuts off either fuel or something, my BPV releases, and than everything re-engages and I'm back to WOT. It is very "jerky" when that happens, and only really when I'm WOT. I know we have boost cut in cold weather, but I don't think it's that. It really feels like I let off the gas completely for a split second and than hit the gas again.

The only thing I can think of is when I replaced my stock BPV, I started boosting a little higher when referring to my boost guage, and maybe I'm boosting too high and the ECU is freaking out? Any idea's? I'm probably going to go to CP-E and talk to Lou and see if he knows of any ECU issues like that.

[phillyb]

it sounds like boost cut

[tru-boost]

Welcome to my hell! I am very well modded and have a map clamp to hide my boost from the ecu and i still cut like crazy. This car pisses me off. If there isnt a known fix for this soon i am getting rid of my ms3. It pisses me off that bad!

[Circle9]

when you get rid of it, I'll trade you for your K04 and snatch that black Forge from ya too! :D

[aaronc7]

ecu is too high and it is freaking out. I think iwth the stock flash, if it sees over 18 psi for a second or two, it will cut and continue to cut.

Too bad the CPE flash didnt raise the boost cut limit.

It's probably really cold weather? In time...the ecu may adjust and compensate, but it might not either.

ghetto fix would be map clamp and trick the ecu into thinking you're at a lower boost level

proper fix would be get standback..or cobb AP. the SB will actually use a map clamp also, but then it has its own boost control to control it. AP will control the boost and raise the boost cut limit itself in the ecu.

Only other fix is to just avoid going WOT or wait until it warms up or taking off some mods:(

[lestat13]

Only other fix is to just avoid going WOT or wait until it warms up or taking off some mods:(

Took off ets tmic.... now it doesn't cut but feels way slower than the power I thought it added.

[aaronc7]

^ yeah especially with a DP in cold weather, you really need some tuning

[LBV]

Welcome to my hell! I am very well modded and have a map clamp to hide my boost from the ecu and i still cut like crazy. This car pisses me off. If there isnt a known fix for this soon i am getting rid of my ms3. It pisses me off that bad!

Might wanna consider the Cobb AP before considering it a lost cause.

[tru-boost]

The AP is a lost cause just as much as the car itself is! Look at all the mods you have and how weak your car dynoed. Hell my car with very similar mods on stock ecu dynoed at 300/340. People see more of this cutting when their car makes more power..... FACT! The reason most AP cars dont cut is because they dont make any power! I am convinced my car can beat any AP equiped car out there, fuel cut and all!

[LBV]

Kinda harsh words that I don't agree with (atleast for the MS6 although the MS3 has had it's issues) ... see post #111 and 114 here for my rebuttal: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123719590&page=8&highlight=dyno

Also, Cobb builds in a safety margin into their tune which is important to me as well as the power.

[tru-boost]

If these dyno were done onrhe same day that explains the gain righ there. To accurately do dyno comps on a flash devie you have to dribe several hundred miles inbetween to let you fuel trims and everythin else get settled to where they will be normaly operating. If just roll in do a dyno, flash and dyno again of course you will show gains because you ecu is no longer compensating for your mods and you will run slightly leaner. I could show you very similar results in dyno runs just from unhooking the battery and resetting the ecu. Just the way ecu's work.

[LBV]

Ah but that's the methodolgy I may not have explained in those posts ... here were the steps:
1 - I put the car on the dyno with the stock tune and reset the ECU
2 - do 2 dyno pulls
3 - flash the Cobb tune which resets the ECU
4 - do 2 dyno pulls

I never even rolled the car off the rollers ... can't get more fair and comparable than that,

[Conso]

welcome to small turbo syndrome, get a new turbo and enjoy the fun of full power up to 7k rpm :)

[yashooa]

Welcome to my hell! I am very well modded and have a map clamp to hide my boost from the ecu and i still cut like crazy. This car pisses me off. If there isnt a known fix for this soon i am getting rid of my ms3. It pisses me off that bad!
Sounds just like what happens with our MSP's.
In our case it is the air density. The MAF will send a +2 volt signal to the ECU which shuts the car off for a split second and then it turns right back on.
In warm weather I never hit cut but as the temperature drops into the 30's I will hit cut at WOT. Hell with the quick spool I have and the high boost levels, I will hit cut at partial throttle as well.
I have a custom MAF that will be installed within a few days (hopefully.)
If I did not have the MAF then I would be installing a FCD to get around it.
Here is the MAF...
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7ce29b3127ccec204eb2f5f1200000010O08AYtGbRo1bNA e3nwM/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[Alexsered]

I'm officially refutting the beliefe that these cars run quicker in colder weather. In theory they should, but I think with the stock ECU, they lose a good bit of HP in cold weather. My MS3 feels lively and ready to drive in any RPM range in 55+ F weather, but under that, I feel like I'm forcing the car to do anything, and on the highway at WOT, it just does not move as quickly.

[Bravnik]

The problem is the cold weather and the issue is fixed with a MAF clamp (Yes MAF and Not Map) which will clamp your MAF IAT at 80 Deg. There is a post somewhere from CPE about this. It's like a MAP clamp but sets your IAT reading at 80DEG and stops the cold air cut.

I will see if I can find the post. Every winter these same type of posts crop up and every year there are tons of stupid replies and answers with no knowledge or research put into it.

[Alexsered]

The problem is the cold weather and the issue is fixed with a MAF clamp (Yes MAF and Not Map) which will clamp your MAF IAT at 80 Deg. There is a post somewhere from CPE about this. It's like a MAP clamp but sets your IAT reading at 80DEG and stops the cold air cut.

I will see if I can find the post. Every winter these same type of posts crop up and every year there are tons of stupid replies and answers with no knowledge or research put into it.

you know what, you are right, I remember reading a cp-e post about that a while ago, I didn't get any of this last year, but I guess since the flash and bpv things have changed. I'll go talk to Lou from cpe about the clamp.

[Bravnik]

Here is the link to the PDF that CP-E did for the Winter Cold Weather Fix. I believe you will get a CEL but not sure. They were suppose to be working on a solution for this but I think it got dropped because summer came. I hope this helps and everyone needs to pass on the word and let others know so we don't get any more guesses and people making off the wall comments about this car (though a lot may be true).

In searching for this link, it seems that Cobb is working on tuning out the fix with the AP as well. I don't have any cut myself, but I live in CA so the coldest I see is 30's and to be honest I don't feel the need to go WOT every chance I get.

http://www.cp-e.com/imgs/wfcf.pdf

[Bravnik]

The AP is a lost cause just as much as the car itself is! Look at all the mods you have and how weak your car dynoed. Hell my car with very similar mods on stock ecu dynoed at 300/340. People see more of this cutting when their car makes more power..... FACT! The reason most AP cars dont cut is because they dont make any power! I am convinced my car can beat any AP equiped car out there, fuel cut and all!

Here is the deal. In addition to my post above about the cold weather fix, you need a tune. I don't care if its an AP or a SB, you need a tune. A MBC / Map Clamp (though I ran one for a bit) is a Hammer where you need a scalpel. I had all kinds of issues with running an MBC that had nothing to do with my mods but everything to do with not having any tune. My car ran pig rich and I bet your car still does even with your mods. I would guess you see 10's on the dyno.

You have already spent a lot of cash on your car. Go one step more and do it right and get a tune. AP or SB it does not matter which and I bet you will end up with a car with better LTFT's and AFR's which runs a lot smoother without issues.

Or you can do like me and trade it in next summer for the new Camaro (eekdance)

[tru-boost]

All the info above is a bunch of crap you never "need" a tune on this car. What just became avaiable from cp-e is a must have though. According to them they can now reflash your ecu to never fuel cut..... Ever! Needless to say i will be buying.

[AutoEuphoria]

Boost cut is pretty annoying. I've been asking the same thing for months...I just don't get why this thing can't keep constant boost. I've never had this problem with any of the other 7 boosted cars I've owned...this is the first one. It's like the wastegate is too slow or something.

[Alexsered]

previously I thought when everyone was talking about boost cut, I thought it meant that instead of 15.5 lbs for example, that it would cut to 13.5 and just feel weaker. NO, this feels very jerky and the first time it happened I thought I blew a rod for a split second until the engine started revving again. It only happens in 40 degrees and below for my car.

[Bravnik]

All the info above is a bunch of crap you never "need" a tune on this car. What just became avaiable from cp-e is a must have though. According to them they can now reflash your ecu to never fuel cut..... Ever! Needless to say i will be buying.

Nope, you don't need a tune. You can continue to add mods like crazy then write post after post about how bad your car runs like Tru does. Nope, no tune is needed at all :'(

Oh and Tru. If you get a flash to fix your issue, that is a tune. It might not up boost, but you are in fact tuning out the issue.

Also, Cobb says they can do the same thing and have done so on the MS6 guys with MS3 coming soon. So again, which choice you choose is up to you SB or AP, but I highly recommend one of them for anyone. Which one you choose depends on the time and money you want to invest. More time and money with the BEST results = SB. Less time and money with Good results = AP. It's really that simple.

[Alexsered]

Nope, you don't need a tune. You can continue to add mods like crazy then write post after post about how bad your car runs like Tru does. Nope, no tune is needed at all :'(

Oh and Tru. If you get a flash to fix your issue, that is a tune. It might not up boost, but you are in fact tuning out the issue.

Also, Cobb says they can do the same thing and have done so on the MS6 guys with MS3 coming soon. So again, which choice you choose is up to you SB or AP, but I highly recommend one of them for anyone. Which one you choose depends on the time and money you want to invest. More time and money with the BEST results = SB. Less time and money with Good results = AP. It's really that simple.

I'm seeing alot of threads popping up with people having bad issues AP and even the V103 maps. I think COBB had a great idea for people that don't know how to tune their cars, but when are they going to get their crap together??

[AutoEuphoria]

You just have to understand that tuning a certain car in a certain environment and using that tune for a bunch of other cars in a wide range of environments will not always yield the best results, which is why you should get your car individually tuned. A canned tune will never perform as well as a custom tune. I just hope they figure out how to do that with the AP as soon as possible.

The whole overboosting thing is ridiculous, though. I can't figure out why even the stock boost control system can't figure out how to hold consistent boost or vent excess boost to prevent boost cut. The only thing I can think of is a very poorly designed wastegate or wastegate control system that can't vent the excess exhaust gasses fast enough or efficiently enough.

[Alexsered]

You just have to understand that tuning a certain car in a certain environment and using that tune for a bunch of other cars in a wide range of environments will not always yield the best results, which is why you should get your car individually tuned. A canned tune will never perform as well as a custom tune. I just hope they figure out how to do that with the AP as soon as possible.

The whole overboosting thing is ridiculous, though. I can't figure out why even the stock boost control system can't figure out how to hold consistent boost or vent excess boost to prevent boost cut. The only thing I can think of is a very poorly designed wastegate or wastegate control system that can't vent the excess exhaust gasses fast enough or efficiently enough.

Yeah, that has been my arguement about the AP is that one tune does not fit all, but at a certain point it will work better than a stock tune because stock tune is crap. I would never go with the AP, but they had a good idea, just wish they had people that could tune the MS3. (loser)

[AutoEuphoria]

Well, if you think about it the stock tune is the same way. It's one tune made for a certain set of conditions, but not all vehicles will fall into those conditions, and not all cars roll off the line the same. The difference between the stock tune and an aftermarket tune is that the stock tune compensates for any issues in engineering or environmental/production variation by being overly conservative, thus giving less power than the car is capable of. They just figure that most people will be happy with the way the car is, and won't tinker with it much...and because of that they don't waste the time to really polish off the rough edges because they just compensate for them with a conservative tune. Well, once you start messing with things those rough edges start showing up and start screwing with things more and more.

[tru-boost]

The AP sucks and is worthless. At its best it gives minimal gains and if the car has respectable mods it will still cut. Cobb has no idea what they are doin with this ecu.
Bravnik.... The flash is not a tune it simple turns the fuel cut trigger off. A tune in my eyes modifies fuel, spark, boost, cam timing things like that. If you call something like that a "tune" i think you are alone there. Fact is if you disable the cut, which now can be done, the stock ecu can handle wverything perfectly and you done need to tune to compensate for mods like exhaust or intake mods like some cars require. Take my ca for example.... Yes i currently have horrible cut, but when it doesnt happen i can run 22psi and have minimal knock and AFR in the low 11's-high 10's. That is what i call no tune needed. I made 300whp at only 18psi.... Untuned.

[GoFast]

Fact is if you disable the cut, which now can be done, the stock ecu can handle wverything perfectly and you done need to tune to compensate for mods like exhaust or intake mods like some cars require.

do you consider that true even without the upgraded fuel pump? i am sure the ecu can handle it, but can the stock fp?

[tru-boost]

That depends on your mods. My stock cdfp came up short very early on in my modding. Good thing i was able to see it on my dashhawk!

[Alexsered]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123730592

Everyone please check out this thread as CP-E has made my life so much better. They got rid of all my Boost Cut with their new flash.

[AutoEuphoria]

The AP 1.03 maps (final version) also have done a lot to reduce the overboosting issue. I was running the beta 1.03 and saw boost spikes near 22psi (target was 19)...installed the final 1.03 map the other day and saw at most a spike to 20.5 and it was for a very short time. No other changes...no changes in weather, either. This is in sub-freezing temps, too, when this would be most likely to happen.

[BrianFiebig]

OK, I have this same problem, was about to take it to the shop with a giant WTF. So, its a cold weather issue basically. I thought it was the computer and the cruise control having a fight. I work nights, so its about 8* when I switch on. On one road, I set the cruise for 60, take a ramp, slow to 40 in the process, hit the bottom, and with the cruise in the orange standby but on mode, power back up to 65. It does it right as i hit 60 under about 1/3 throttle in 6th.
Best solution is a retune/reflash, probably via CP-e.
Anything else I need to know about this without the previous flamefest?

[Alexsered]

OK, I have this same problem, was about to take it to the shop with a giant WTF. So, its a cold weather issue basically. I thought it was the computer and the cruise control having a fight. I work nights, so its about 8* when I switch on. On one road, I set the cruise for 60, take a ramp, slow to 40 in the process, hit the bottom, and with the cruise in the orange standby but on mode, power back up to 65. It does it right as i hit 60 under about 1/3 throttle in 6th.
Best solution is a retune/reflash, probably via CP-e.
Anything else I need to know about this without the previous flamefest?

The CP-E flash completely eliminates the boost cut, I don't know what your mods are, But I was lightly modded before and was getting crazy boost cut, I get zero of that now.

Also, I have doing ALOT of reading the last couple of days with the flamefest I have been having with bravnik over the COBB tuning.

Basically, you can tune out most of the boost cut, whether it's with the AP or the standback, but you will never get rid of it. The boost cut is a poor way of mazda trying to protect there engine. The best thing to do is to get rid of it all together. CP-E does that.