Slipping and sliding in the snow. [Archive]

kosh2258

12-26-2008, 11:09 AM

Just had a big snow storm and my cx9 GT was a real dissapointment to say the least! I went through 3 stop signs and I could barely make it up a very small hill. I am afraid to drive this in a snowstorm! Is it the tires that come on the car, or is it my awd not working correctly? I am calling the dealer tommorow and I am taking him for a ride!

The stock tires are like teflon on ice and snow. Traction? What traction? Very bad.

Termin81

12-27-2008, 01:45 PM

sbmrinaldi

12-28-2008, 10:10 AM

CX-9 GT, as we all know, stock tires SUCK in anything but dry weather! Anyone found a good replacement tire for the 20" rims, I was thinking of the Yokohama Parada Spec-X but have now read from some of you that they are just as bad with any light snow on the ground. I'm thinking of going with 255/50-20 Bridgstone Dueler H/L Alenza? Anyone have these?

I just ordered the Pirelli Ice and Snow in 19". Not sure they make 20", but they are rated at the top for winter driving. I hope they handle like it. I spent $1500 for a full set with TPMS and Momo rims. I figured it was well worth the cost. If you buy winter tires then you will have noisey/terrible tires in the summer unless you switch them each season. In addition you will get twice the life out of your Duellers this way. The Duellers SUCK in winter, but are fine as summer tires. When you are done-sell the rims on Craigslist or Ebay.

o.c.cx9

12-28-2008, 02:46 PM

CX-9 GT, as we all know, stock tires SUCK in anything but dry weather! Anyone found a good replacement tire for the 20" rims, I was thinking of the Yokohama Parada Spec-X but have now read from some of you that they are just as bad with any light snow on the ground. I'm thinking of going with 255/50-20 Bridgstone Dueler H/L Alenza? Anyone have these?

I went with the Michelin Latitude Tour HP in 255/50R-20 109V. So far I have found them to be great in dry and wet conditions but haven't been skiing yet to try them in the snow.

I think they will work Ok as I have the AWD on my GT. If I lived in snow country I would buy snow tires for the winter.

Good Luck

Tom

Termin81

12-29-2008, 11:04 PM

Thanks, I went with the Bridgestone H/L Alenza 255/50-20 a larger tire but looks like it will fit on the rim. I did some reading and it is definatly not a snow tire but I can't afford the snow tire/rim combo right now and with only 2-3 months of snow left I will need an all-season tire once the spring gets here. i will post back on saturday once they are installed on the stopping and feel of the tires. We should be getting some snow so I hope, they are good, I think they come with a 90 day drive and try.

CX9 SportOwner

12-31-2008, 09:54 PM

These Bridgestones arent even good for dry pavement. Total JUNK

DSherwood

01-01-2009, 09:35 PM

blizzak LM-25 4x4 18 inch wheel combination from T-rack, there undersized 1.2 mph at 65, but for winter driving the best combination of spirited driving with snow/ice capability.

I slid through an intersection with the factory 20's went home and did some homework and decided on the LM -25 because they are a high performance tire and have been put on the x5's and rovers.

smooth ride and wouldn't have all seasons again, the good thing about the cx9 is the stability control allows you to have some control with the throttle breaking the rears loose when you need to. Not for novice drivers though.

brownghost

01-16-2009, 06:10 PM

I mentioned this in another thread - as with many others, I found the Duellers to be horrible in snow. Unfortunately it was impossible to find winter tires (Blizzaks) here in Toronto, so I had Michelin Latitude Tour HPs put on (245/50R20) - amazing difference. Good handling in snow, smoother ride and very little slippage on snow or ice. I highly recommend them

jeydman

01-22-2009, 11:46 AM

I wish I read this forum before... because last week I wrecked my cx9 due due to snow/ice on the road.

I was driving slowly, maybe 15mph, and approaching a red light, started breaking and guess what?? the break failed completely. I'm pretty sure the tires were not even spinning at that point, but the street was sloped and the car just kept going. Lucky for me, a pick-up truck with metal rods sticking out of his trunk was in front of me and so the front of my cx9 got completely smashed! Thank got I have full coverage.

Anyway, I am still shocked and do not understand what happened to ABS. Maybe I don't understand how it's suppose to work, but weren't the anti lock breaks supposed to prevent the car from slipping like that???

People get the good tires so this doesn't happen to your car!!!

Julie

ceric

01-22-2009, 02:47 PM

Julie,
I don't think ABS can help you when your traction is a total loss.
Summer tires use a compound that hardens during cold weather.
That spells "disaster" on snow.
The OE tires of GT is fine on dry and wet condition, but not snow.

kirklandcx9

01-22-2009, 07:02 PM

If your ABS was working you would have heard a distinct noise and felt the brake pedal pulsing under your foot.

Some people, when hearing & feeling this might let up on the brake pedal thinking something is wrong. But the right thing to do is hold the pedal down and let the ABS do its job.

I drove my old Explorer in the snow, with 4x4 on, this December and was sliding a TON with ABS pumping away like mad and getting no traction.

Sorry to hear about the accident, that sounds pretty scary!

bill42

01-23-2009, 10:44 PM

Julie,
Sorry you wrecked your car. It is a lesson you will never forget though and at least nobody was hurt except your CX-9. You ABS brakes were likely working the way they are designed to, which was to stop the wheels from being locked. What ABS does is it detects one or all of your wheels skidding, then loosens the brakes so the wheels roll, then tightens the brakes until they just reach the skidding point, then loosens, etc. This happens many times per second. In really slippery snow or ice, the wheels start to slip the instant that the ABS tries to apply the brakes again, so the brakes are instantly turned off before any successful braking takes place. The result is that the car just rolls. And rolls. On a hill, with no snow tires, the car could keep rolling until the hill ends or you hit something. If you had an old car without ABS brakes, you would have skidded into that truck at maybe a slightly faster speed, but not by much. The fact of the matter is that with tires that do not have good snow traction, ABS does little to stop your vehicle in the snow. The real advantage is that with the wheels rolling instead of skidding, you retain your ability to steer (with greatly reduced steering response). The other advantage of ABS is that if just one of your 4 wheels gains some traction, you will have much quicker stopping ability than a car with no ABS breaks, because ABS works independently with each wheel so that one wheel will slow the car while the others keep gliding.

The best thing you can do once you get your car back, is to wait for another snowfall, and go out early in the morning to a large empty parking lot. There you can practice hitting the brakes as well as practice steering while stopping on snow. Learn how far it takes for your car to stop. It could take from 5 to 10 times the distance to stop compared to dry pavement.

But know that on a slight hill, like the one that you crashed on, there may be nothing you can do with the original tires if you have to stop quickly.

jdoering

01-26-2009, 03:44 AM

I came within a few feet of trashing the side of my CX-9 with the OEM tires ON THE WAY to get my snow tires installed (yeah; should have done it several weeks earlier).

I was going down a pretty steep hill, pretty darn slow.There was a large turn in the middle of the hill on the passenger side of the car. I saw it coming and figured I might have trouble so I began slowing even more a pretty good distance from the turn. The wheels let go completely as the hill steepened slightly; anti-lock kicked in but got almost no extra traction. I steered the best line I could toward the corner and then deliberately went off the road wide as I hit the bend. Got some traction on the gravel+snow shoulder and avoided a large stone wall by a few feet.

I was extremely relieved to make it to the tire shop unscathed and drive out an hour later rock-solid on Blizzaks. The OEM tires will never-ever touch snow or ice again on my CX-9.

-Jeff

nj_jamaican

02-06-2009, 01:43 PM

Thanks for this infromation. I thought it was the brakes as well, but I am glad to know it is the tires. I will be replacing them this year.

I havent had any major clsoe calls, but I have had several skids. Even sometimes just driving into my drive way, the tires skid on the ice. I have to literally reverse and get traction and pull forward.

DashingMax

02-08-2009, 08:56 AM

The OEM Bridgestone Duelers are good in dry but a complete disaster in snow/ice/slush. It is a very common & known issue here on CX-9 forums.

I replaced all 4 with Yokohama Parada Spec-X. HUGE difference. Highly recommended!

bytehoven

02-20-2009, 06:34 PM

I went with the Michelin Latitude Tour HP in 255/50R-20 109V. So far I have found them to be great in dry and wet conditions but haven't been skiing yet to try them in the snow.

I think they will work Ok as I have the AWD on my GT. If I lived in snow country I would buy snow tires for the winter.

Good Luck

Tom

We traded our (4) OEM Bridgestone Duelers for (4) Michelin Latitude Tour HPs for $170 total installed. 245/60R18 We kept the full size spare as is.

CX9 SportOwner

02-26-2009, 10:47 PM

I'm disappointed in the OEM tires on dry pavement, and terrified of them on wet and icy roads.

They scrub way too much in turns, and I can smoke them if I get on the gas. And that's in an 07. Awful tires.

bill42

02-27-2009, 08:50 AM

In all honesty Bridgestones aren't bad on dry pavement. The fact of the matter is that the CX-9 was designed with such a good performance-geared suspension that one feels confident in taking a 40mph exit ramp going 60. Yet our car still weighs 4600 pounds. It is almost as if the CX-9's suspension is too good for the tire size. Any factory sized tire would probably lose traction therefore, as the tires are the weakest link in the chain. Notice how a Porsche cayeene and a Range Rover Sport have much wider tires than the CX-9. We would probably need tires that wide on our heavy car if we wanted to be able to take high speed turns like those higher end sport SUVs.

When I comparison shopped before buying the CX-9, I noticed right away that it could take turns way faster than any of the models that it directly competes with. (excluding the Acura MDX which wasn't out yet in late 2007)

vikefan7

02-27-2009, 12:58 PM

I'm not experiencing the tire issues everyone complains about. I have driven in slush and a little bit of ice and the only time I've slid is when I did it on purpose by slamming on the brakes hard or gunning it to try to break them loose. And even then it wasn't out of control.

I definitely am going to look into getting some 18" wheels and tires next winter just to be safe and because I want to be able to make it to the mountain. I think I found some nice shiny, aka gawdy, rims for about $400 that will fit. However, I still will need to go to Schwab's or America's Tire Company and buy me some tires from them so that it won't cost me anything to have the wheels pulled and remounted everytime.

Anyone have any suggestions on tires for the 18" rims? I know people have mentioned the blizzak's and the Pirellis in 20", but any suggestions for the 18's? I would imagine there are many more options.

CX9 SportOwner

02-27-2009, 01:08 PM

Mazda made the CX9 ride smooth, but corner well, too. Very rare for any car. (Cadillac CTS is a good example of that trade-off)
The 'luxury' CUVs improve cornering by putting wider tires on them. The problem is that those wider tires suck in snow. They also get better acceleration by using V8s with premium gas. (The Mercedes GL450 V8 at 70k is less than 1 second faster then the CX9 0 to 60 and has 17 CF less cargo volume.)

Mazda simply put more thought into every aspect of the car. If you compare it to all others like it, including the expensive ones, they don't compare. Seats that function better, features that are standard even on the lowest model, more room than all but one (Lamda), and great performance. None of them have the simplicity of designe like the CX9. They make up for it with gimmicks and gadgets like power folding ashtrays. This is why we bought a CX9.

If you think the Deullers aren't bad on dry, change your tires and you will see the difference. The Bridgestones don't match the level of performance of the rest of the CX9. In fact, the car has had to take over and recover from these tires losing their grip several times.

CX9 SportOwner

02-27-2009, 01:11 PM

(gossip)

Slush and a 'little bit if ice' isn't the same as 1 or 2 inches of SOLID ice covering the entire road, covered by 6 inches of snow. and that's just here in Prescott, AZ. We need better tires because we don't get enough of that to justify owning two sets of tires, but still need to drive in it.

If your conditions aren't even as bad as ours, I'd get the Michelin Latitudes, or the Yokohama Paradas, both of which have good winter ratings from users. just watch the specs. There are Latitudes and Paradas that have lower speed ratings than the factory H as well as versions that meet it. If you do any interstate traveling, you want to maintain that rating, or exceed it.

jdoering

02-27-2009, 05:52 PM

I think other threads around here have examples of 18" winter tires. Many Blizzak comments are about 18" options.

-Jeff

CX9 SportOwner

02-27-2009, 06:24 PM

Yes there are some good tire threads, particularly for winter.

hamproof

03-02-2009, 05:17 PM

Touch on wood .. but during the occasions I've been driving the CX-9 around metro Detroit, I haven't had any issues thus far. I've an 08 GT with those 20" rims since Sept 08.

Folks living around metro Detroit can attest to the awful snowy and icy conditions we had. Well, maybe not as bad as the winter of 03 (iirc).

Perhaps I'm coming from driving cars and I do understand SUVs can go where my car can't go, but it surely can't stop like the cars. So, I always leave plenty of space, and gently applying on the brakes. I won't do what other SUV drivers often do on the first few days of snow, which is to drive like it is still dry and impatiently overtaking the other cautious car drivers. Not to say folks here are doing that.

Like another poster said, after reading the stories on this forum, I purposely went out and hit on the brakes on a straight away. Sure enough, ABS kicked in full force, and I can feel the SUV slipping.. though not sliding all that much. It is in a controlled manner which allowed me to still steer.

Force-1

03-04-2009, 10:53 PM

Motor Tend, Long Term Test Update, Mazda CX-9, April 2009 Edition

As the forcecast predicted, it was snowing, uh, the equivalent of cats and dogs. Road conditions were such that, if we'd been in California, the road would have surely been shut down. Despite all this, the CX-9 was as surefooted as a mountain goat.

Tire slippage? Drifting? Traction control going berserk? No, no, and no. Bottom line: the [AWD GT] CX-9 is a great winter SUV for all but the absolute worst conditions.

jdoering

03-05-2009, 05:10 AM

Motor Tend, Long Term Test Update, Mazda CX-9, April 2009 Edition

Amazing! They either got a magically much better set of tires than I did or their almost "worst conditions" are a lot different than mine.

On the other hand a year ago I did drive my CX-9 through snowy areas a few times and thought it was fine. Big difference when I moved to a snowy area and actually drove it through a range of fresh snow + ice conditions. So I can see where you might get by with an okay experience in specific conditions and conclude that it handles fine.

But based on my experience and those of others here; I couldn't recommend that anyone trust the tires to handle unanticipated bad weather conditions (say crossing a stormy pass somewhere far from home) - it might be okay; but quite possibly not.

-Jeff

bill42

03-05-2009, 07:55 AM

I don't blame MotorTrend for stating that. The CX-9 by far is the best vehicle I have ever driven in the snow. With the stock tires during the first few months of ownership I drove well over 100 miles during a blizzard that dumped 8 to 10 inches in a few hours, and the CX-9 handled it just fine. That being said, now that I have dedicated snow tires, the traction went from good to amazing.

MotorTrend editors are constantly driving stock cars with factory tires and no after-market modifications. Therefore their idea of being "as surefooted as a mountain goat" is only in comparison to other SUVs with factory tires.

I should also note that even though I think the CX-9 is decent in the snow, it does not have the best stability control. When I play around in snow covered parking lots, I can get the CX-9 to spin around and lose control despite the stability control doing its best to keep the car straight. When I used to drive my BMW 3 series with snow tires in the snow, I could never get the car to spin- the stability control was much quicker to respond and also more powerful controlling the individual brakes on each wheel. I recently drove an Audi Quattro A6 with winter tires, and it too had better stability control.

CX9 SportOwner

03-05-2009, 12:08 PM

I guess that extra 20k helps with traction control.

bill42

03-05-2009, 12:19 PM

You meant stability control, not traction control, right? Two different systems. The traction control in the CX-9 works great. It is the stability control that, although adequate, leaves room for improvement. Granted you would have to be a terrible driver to spin the wheel enough on a low traction surface to cause the CX-9 Stability control to fail, but the more expensive cars don't even let you spin the car even if you try hard.

CX9 SportOwner

03-05-2009, 12:22 PM

Kinda takes all the fun away, doesn't it?

(dance)

nuhuskyfan

03-05-2009, 12:34 PM

I recently drove an Audi Quattro A6 with winter tires, and it too had better stability control.

Comparing anything to Quattro isn't a fair fight. I had a 01 S4 and it was a tank with snow tires. I have a S60R (Haldex)
and my wife has a XC90 (Haldex) and I think the CX9 compares very well to those two.

bill42

03-05-2009, 12:49 PM

Why isn't it a fair fight? We are in a time where a hyundai competes directly with a BMW and Mercedes. Is Mazda not as good as Hyundai?
Your 2001 S4 probably had the same stability control that my '01 TT quattro had, and yes, it was better than the 2008 CX-9. I would argue that 7 years later, the Mazda stability control in my $40k CX-9 should be as good as a $40k AUdi I had 7 years ago.
BMW stability control seems equal to Audi. The only other car I have owned with stability control was a 2002 front wheel drive Volvo v40. It must have been their first attempt as it seemed non-existent.
Perhaps the CX-9 stability only kicks in at higher speeds. It is the same software that Mazda calls roll-control and is supposed to stop our cars from rolling over if we cut the wheel too fast. I haven't tested the CX-9 out yet on a snow covered highway going 60mph and cutting the wheel hard. It is kind of a risky test! But I used to do this all the time with my TT and M3 both with snow tires. It was amazing to me that those 2 cars just would never spin into 180s. Anyone care to try this with the CX-9? Post your results here!

nuhuskyfan

03-05-2009, 01:00 PM

Anyone care to try this with the CX-9? Post your results here!

I'll pass (bike)

vikefan7

03-05-2009, 01:38 PM

I'll give it a shot and let you know when I get out of the hospital...

SeCX-9

03-05-2009, 01:43 PM

I'll give it a shot and let you know when I get out of the hospital...

Now THAT'S funny! (lol)

CX9 SportOwner

03-06-2009, 09:07 PM

Ive done it on loose dry. It worked. Took over and corrected my overshoot of a hairpin turn.

hamproof

03-09-2009, 07:56 AM

Why isn't it a fair fight? .... I haven't tested the CX-9 out yet on a snow covered highway going 60mph and cutting the wheel hard. It is kind of a risky test! But I used to do this all the time with my TT and M3 both with snow tires. It was amazing to me that those 2 cars just would never spin into 180s.

Are you suggesting it is a direct comparison -- a 3000lb low slung TT roadster that seats 2 versus a 4500 lbs behemoth that sits 7??

Cue

03-09-2009, 09:31 AM

I haven't tested the CX-9 out yet on a snow covered highway going 60mph and cutting the wheel hard. It is kind of a risky test! But I used to do this all the time with my TT and M3 both with snow tires. It was amazing to me that those 2 cars just would never spin into 180s. Anyone care to try this with the CX-9? Post your results here!

This is EXACTLY what I pictured!!

Cue

03-09-2009, 09:31 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5NAEM7IaaE

ceric

03-09-2009, 05:08 PM

That SUV cleared needed stability control. It would have saved that vehicle and people in it from harm.

CX9 SportOwner

03-10-2009, 01:43 AM

So does not driving stupid.

bill42

03-10-2009, 08:12 AM

Are you suggesting it is a direct comparison -- a 3000lb low slung TT roadster that seats 2 versus a 4500 lbs behemoth that sits 7??

no, I am not suggesting a TT has handling comparable with a CX-9. However the specific action of jerking the steering wheel while driving on ice/snow to trigger a 180 spin/loss of control trigers the electronic stability control of both cars. At that point I imaging that the software and hardware of the stability control system has far more impact than any of the handling characteristics of these 2 cars. But I am no engineer and I am just speculating. What I do know is that the stability control on some other brands reacts sooner, and much faster than the Mazda system in the CX-9.
It would be interesting to compare the stability control of a small light Mazda 3 to the CX-9.

CX9 SportOwner

03-10-2009, 02:31 PM

Unfortunately, we all still have to practice safe driving. All of these systems are only intended, and designed, to assist the driver. Not take over and drive the car when we do something stupid.

Any system can be overrun if you try.

By the way, are we comparing a CX9 with Blegstone Duelers to an Audi with snow tires? Because nothing can compensate for the horrible Duelers.

bill42

03-10-2009, 02:53 PM

I am comparing all the cars I have driven in the snow that have stability control. For me it is: an M3 with snow tires, an Audi A6 with snows, a volvo v40 with snows, and a TT with All Seasons. They were all better systems except for the volvo which barely did anything except make a loud ca-chug ca-chug sound as it slowly applied ABS to various wheels.

I agree that stability control is only designed to assist the driver. But I for one want to know exactly what each system on my cars is capable of, so I always test whatever I can in test environments that are devoid of other vehicles. It is the same idea as testing your stopping ability in the rain with new tires. You can't argue with learning what your car can or can't do in an emergency.
Anyway, I am not complaining. The CX-9 stability control and Roll Assist have a huge impact on the safety of our cars in the snow, along with ABS and traction Control. So far I have only tested these features for fun but I know they are there just in case a deer jumps out in front of me on a curvy mountain road during a snowstorm. That is the time when you want all the help you can get.