mrlilguy fuel pump

[NAisBST]

how much are they and where can i get one?!
thanks

[GoFast]

protegegarage.com

[NAisBST]

thanks a ton.. fuel cut is annoying!!!!

[tru-boost]

Fuel cut does suck and the pump may or may not fix it. Either way it is a good mod to have.

[bykeryder4life]

you can go to cp-e and get one as well. PG has a kit you can get and put together for way cheaper than buying a whole new pump, you can also get the internals kit other places than PG I think a company called KMD Tuning or something makes the some internals for ford or cosworth engines whatever they are called.

[tru-boost]

You "can" buy the internals and build the pump yourself but BEWARE ! The tolerances are so tight and precise that a spec of dust/debris inside the pump can cause it to lock up and blow your motor. My yhought is let PG handle the detail work. That way your ass is covered!

[opt_ms3]

seems like a lot of guys are being the kit from Ken and doing it themselves, and no one has reported any issues that I am aware of...

[bykeryder4life]

You "can" buy the internals and build the pump yourself but BEWARE ! The tolerances are so tight and precise that a spec of dust/debris inside the pump can cause it to lock up and blow your motor. My yhought is let PG handle the detail work. That way your ass is covered!

I know you wanna rep PG and all but it's not rocket science and I dont think anyone should waste money on a whole pump when they can get the internals kit. You make it sound so scary it's not at all if you have the tools and a clean workspace and a little mechanical ability you can bust it out easily.

[bykeryder4life]

the tolerances are very tight but a spec of dust is on everything in the world and it wont make your motor blow.

[AutoXRacer]

seems like a lot of guys are being the kit from Ken and doing it themselves, and no one has reported any issues that I am aware of...

People on the "other" forum have been reporting noisy pumps with the internals only. The pumps that are fully built are noiseless...

There seems to be an issue with the kits being installed...might just be assembly.

I'd get the fully built pump...not worth the risk or annoyance of a noisy pump.

[Speed3Rookie]

I installed my internals ~2 weeks ago and it is as silent as stock.

[dion51]

was it a worthy mod? how long was the install?

[Speed3Rookie]

Definitely worth it. Took me ~45 minutes. See my post showing a before and after dh log on the Mazda3 forum and MSF (Speed'n3)

[AutoXRacer]

was it a worthy mod? how long was the install?

DO IT!!! The stock fuel pump on these cars suck!!!

[Rotus8]

DO IT!!! The stock fuel pump on these cars suck!!!
It's supposed to suck. How else are you going to the fuel out of the tank. :)

[tru-boost]

Its a needed mod if you plan on making power. As for the install, i have done so many of them that i can do the whole swap in under 15 min.

[dion51]

anyone in so cal area know how?

[lvmazdaspeed3]

just asking for an opinion but whos pump is considered better cpe or pg?

[Speed3Rookie]

U got the dough...go
cp-e and get the new pump. On a budget...get the internals from pg.

[mrjoshyman]

damn...this ain't a cheap mod if you buy the full pump.

650 from PG? On the PG site it says that its the same price for a brand new pump as for a brand new pump and you return your stock one? It doesn't specify how much the core refund is..

[tru-boost]

just asking for an opinion but whos pump is considered better cpe or pg?

The two companies do not use the same internals. From what i have heard and the graphs that are floating around the PG pump flows a lot more.

[AutoXRacer]

The two companies do not use the same internals. From what i have heard and the graphs that are floating around the PG pump flows a lot more.

Really?? I thought it was the other way around... (scratch)

[lvmazdaspeed3]

i'll buy whichever one delivers better performance. i would like to see the comparison graphs if they are available...

[khoney]

Its a needed mod if you plan on making power. As for the install, i have done so many of them that i can do the whole swap in under 15 min.

How about a DIY procedure? I'd like to read how you're able to do this in 15 minutes, when the TSB to replace the fuel pump allows 1.7 hours by a trained Mazda mechanic. What's your secret? Looks pretty complicated if you follow the service manual.

[tru-boost]

How about a DIY procedure? I'd like to read how you're able to do this in 15 minutes, when the TSB to replace the fuel pump allows 1.7 hours by a trained Mazda mechanic. What's your secret? Looks pretty complicated if you follow the service manual.
Ahhh the famous book hours. What an easy life it must be to be a certified mechanic. Almost 2 hours of pay for something any gearhead can do in minutes. Serioisly there are 2 plastic clips that come off in seconds. They literally snap on and off. Those are forthe low pressure feed and return lines to the cdfp. Then there is the nut that holds the high pressure hard line on the bottom of the pump. I use a small adjustable wrench on this, and once again i is off in seconds. Now all that is left are the 3 star head bolts that hold the pump itself. For this .... Maybe a minute and a half, if you turn slowly. Now pull and wiggle. Depending on how the pumps spring/shaft is sitting on the cam it may slip right out, or it may put up a fight! Allow a few minutes to wiggle it out. Then thats half the job! What are we, 6-7 minutes in now? Ok grab the new pump and put it right back where the stocker came from. Again it may slide right in or it may take some persuasion. I like to re-attach the lower hard line first. Since it is a solid line it is easier to attach to the pump while it is still loose. If you cant move the line move the pump! Once thats on put those 3 bolts back in nice and snug and clip the rubber fuel lines back on. Done ! If i were to charge you 1.7 book hours i would have time to go for a "quality assurance" ride. AKA beating the piss out of your car.. For about an hour and a half !

[khoney]

So you don't have to drop the fuel tank? When you said 15 minutes, I thought maybe there were two pumps, but I could only find the one in the tank. Is this one not in the tank? Pardon the dumb question, but I'm not that familiar with the innards of the 3.

[Rotus8]

So you don't have to drop the fuel tank? When you said 15 minutes, I thought maybe there were two pumps, but I could only find the one in the tank. Is this one not in the tank? Pardon the dumb question, but I'm not that familiar with the innards of the 3.
On the speed, there are two pumps. The one in the tank appears up to the task. This is the cam driven high pressure pump mounted on the side of the block.

[tru-boost]

On the speed, there are two pumps. The one in the tank appears up to the task. This is the cam driven high pressure pump mounted on the side of the block.

Correct the mrlilguy pump replaces the cam driven pump found only on the speed 3/6/cx7 with the DISI engine.
As far as the intank pump being up to speed.... I dont know abou that. It is a single 155lph pump. That is very weak! Most NA 4 cyl. cars use a pump that size or bigger. For a few bolt ons its ok i guess. I am at the point now of being at its limits. I am beginin to see a dip in my fuel pressure, on the low side before cdfp. Pressure there shoils always be about 70psi. Mine dips to about 60 on cold days with big boost. I am going to buy a boost a pump from kenne bell to solve this problem!

[Rotus8]

Correct the mrlilguy pump replaces the cam driven pump found only on the speed 3/6/cx7 with the DISI engine.
As far as the intank pump being up to speed.... I dont know abou that. It is a single 155lph pump. That is very weak! Most NA 4 cyl. cars use a pump that size or bigger. For a few bolt ons its ok i guess. I am at the point now of being at its limits. I am beginin to see a dip in my fuel pressure, on the low side before cdfp. Pressure there shoils always be about 70psi. Mine dips to about 60 on cold days with big boost. I am going to buy a boost a pump from kenne bell to solve this problem!
Hmm. It seems to me that as long as there is positive pressure to the input of the CDFP, you should be fine. Don't let me stop you, but it is a lot of work, and I'll bet you don't see any performance improvement. Just thinkin....

[tru-boost]

Im no looking for a performance gain from it. I am looking to not blowing my engine because i run out of fuel. For the cdfp all that matters is pressure. If you get fuel to it, it will pressurize it and you are all good. But what happens if you dont get enough fuel to it? You cant pressurize what isnt there. Like i said the cdfp relies on pressure, the pump in the tank must supply the volume. If it cant get out of the tank fast enough it cant get pressurized. The cdfp can only work with what it is given. If the pressure going into it drops too low it wont be able to create sufficient pressure. In the end you either run dangerously lean or just flat run out of fuel and blow up. Like i mentioned i rigged up an inline fuel pressure gauge i had from my old mustang to see what my pressure was like. Under most conditions it holds right at 70psi like it should. In cold weather with high boost i can already see the pump running out. The pressure falls a full 10psi. Just imagine if i added more mods or raised the boost. Not to mention the wet nitrous kit i am getting pulls fuel from the low pressure side to feed the nitrous addition. I would run that pump dry.
If you want to try to run big HP on a the same fuel pump that comes in a honda civic, go for it. I'll take the safe route and make sure i can keep up with my engines fueling needs.

[speed3driver]

I have the pump from protege garage and absolutly love it.. it didn't solve my "cut" issues but once i got my Cobb AP that was fully taken care of.
I would recommend getting the fuel pump from PG.. they are awesome and if you plan on making over 300whp or so. its a must.

[builthatch]

I have the pump from protege garage and absolutly love it.. it didn't solve my "cut" issues but once i got my Cobb AP that was fully taken care of.
I would recommend getting the fuel pump from PG.. they are awesome and if you plan on making over 300whp or so. its a must.

how long did it take you to install it, assuming you got the whole replacement pump.

have you been logging your a/f and fuel pressures before/after, and with the cobb flashing you've been doing?

[speed3driver]

I did get the whole rebuilt pump not just the internals.. it took about an hour to install.. i know theres a how to video somewhere you can watch for help.
As far as logging a/f and fuel pressures i havent been doing much. but what numbers are you looking for? Because i could take a look at them.

[tru-boost]

My stocker was falling short well before 300whp. Once i removwd both cats and added my forge wastegate actuator, my spool up got to be so fast the pump couldnt keep up in the low-mid range. These pumps are cam driven, so the faster your engine is spinning the more fuel they can output. A stock pump can actually support over 400hp! But only at over 5500rpm! At 3k it maxes at around 200hp. So needless to say if you have a fast spooling set up with increased boost you will make over 200hp at 3k. The upgraded pumps can handle about 350 hp at the same point i think.

[Rotus8]

Im no looking for a performance gain from it. I am looking to not blowing my engine because i run out of fuel. For the cdfp all that matters is pressure. If you get fuel to it, it will pressurize it and you are all good. But what happens if you dont get enough fuel to it? You cant pressurize what isnt there. Like i said the cdfp relies on pressure, the pump in the tank must supply the volume. If it cant get out of the tank fast enough it cant get pressurized. The cdfp can only work with what it is given. If the pressure going into it drops too low it wont be able to create sufficient pressure. In the end you either run dangerously lean or just flat run out of fuel and blow up. Like i mentioned i rigged up an inline fuel pressure gauge i had from my old mustang to see what my pressure was like. Under most conditions it holds right at 70psi like it should. In cold weather with high boost i can already see the pump running out. The pressure falls a full 10psi. Just imagine if i added more mods or raised the boost. Not to mention the wet nitrous kit i am getting pulls fuel from the low pressure side to feed the nitrous addition. I would run that pump dry.
Good point. Indeed if you are starting to drop pressure before the CDFP it indicates you are close to the edge. If you are increasing output beyond what you have now, indeed you better upgrade the in-tank pump.

[speed3driver]

To make it easy.. let me say this from first hand experience.
If you have a modded speed3 get an upgraded pump.

[fastdreams]

To make it easy.. let me say this from first hand experience.
If you have a modded speed3 get an upgraded pump.

really? I haven't noticed any issues with my car yet. I figured my mild mods are not a big deal. Dashhawk logs haven't shown a lack of fuel yet.

I have intake, catted dp, and ap beta. Future mods are FMIC. I'll be done with it then as far as power goes.

[builthatch]

really? I haven't noticed any issues with my car yet. I figured my mild mods are not a big deal. Dashhawk logs haven't shown a lack of fuel yet.

I have intake, catted dp, and ap beta. Future mods are FMIC. I'll be done with it then as far as power goes.

me neither....then again i just have cobb intake, txs testpipe and ap.

[mazdaspeed32007]

ok so i know you cant tell for sure but with a full tbe/intake/plugs/redline fluid/cobb ap and in the future a pg manifold.......would i be running intoa problem or should i be set for now? i will eventually be getting eithe r the kit or the actual pump but i dont like my zoom zoom to go well....you know....

edit. also have turbo inlet. thanks.

[builthatch]

ok so i know you cant tell for sure but with a full tbe/intake/plugs/redline fluid/cobb ap and in the future a pg manifold.......would i be running intoa problem or should i be set for now? i will eventually be getting eithe r the kit or the actual pump but i dont like my zoom zoom to go well....you know....

edit. also have turbo inlet. thanks.

only logs will tell i guess

[Speed3Rookie]

Guys, if you are gonna mod your 3 get the internals or pump for insurance. Either of these are cheaper than the cost of an engine. Why chance it?

[khoney]

So as some of you may have read I had my engine replaced at 30K miles due to low compression in the #3 cylinder. I have occasionally had fuel cut symptoms, and what I swear was detonation sounds both before and after the engine replacement. Since mine is an early 07 model, I was concerned that the TSB concerning the weak high pressure fuel pump might apply to me, and that this might have caused my compression problem. I am still concerned about it because they replaced the engine, but not the fuel pump. If this could have caused the problem, then I'm at risk of destroying another engine. What do you guys think - should I press harder to get the fuel pump replaced if I verify that it's one of the weak ones built before March 26, 2007? Or should I not be concerned about it?

[mazdaspeed32007]

is the bulletin something that everyone should get checked out? i would assume its worth the time to just swing it by to get all the things in the past year checked out huh.....

[speed3driver]

really? I haven't noticed any issues with my car yet. I figured my mild mods are not a big deal. Dashhawk logs haven't shown a lack of fuel yet.

I have intake, catted dp, and ap beta. Future mods are FMIC. I'll be done with it then as far as power goes.

My car struggled without the pump and ran like a champ with it. My car has a few more mods than yours though.. I still recommend it, but i guess if all is well no need.

[tru-boost]

So as some of you may have read I had my engine replaced at 30K miles due to low compression in the #3 cylinder. I have occasionally had fuel cut symptoms, and what I swear was detonation sounds both before and after the engine replacement. Since mine is an early 07 model, I was concerned that the TSB concerning the weak high pressure fuel pump might apply to me, and that this might have caused my compression problem. I am still concerned about it because they replaced the engine, but not the fuel pump. If this could have caused the problem, then I'm at risk of destroying another engine. What do you guys think - should I press harder to get the fuel pump replaced if I verify that it's one of the weak ones built before March 26, 2007? Or should I not be concerned about it?

Hell yes. Make the dealer check your pump. It doesnt go by the cars production date either. It depends on when the pump was made. There are numbees that can be seen on the pump once removed. It is in the TSB what number range is bad. If my engine blew thats the first hing i would make them check!

[mazdaspeed32007]

im not even under warranty anymore....if the problem is directly linked to the....lets say broken or faulty fuel pump tsb....does this mean the problem should be covered? or is it only covered under mandatory recalls?

[fructus]

Are there any other advantages to the CP-E pump as opposed to the PG kit besides easiness of the install?

[speed3driver]

Are there any other advantages to the CP-E pump as opposed to the PG kit besides easiness of the install?

Not that i know of..

[builthatch]

Are there any other advantages to the CP-E pump as opposed to the PG kit besides easiness of the install?

the most obvious advantage is if you order it, you'll get it in a respectable time frame.

but, as far as technical differences, yes, there are many.

that is one reason why it's so much money. is it overbuilt? probably! but it's certainly the best pump available.

i suggest you email cp-e about details.

[Captain KRM P5]

the most obvious advantage is if you order it, you'll get it in a respectable time frame.

but, as far as technical differences, yes, there are many.

that is one reason why it's so much money. is it overbuilt? probably! but it's certainly the best pump available.

i suggest you email cp-e about details.

we have pumps and pump internals sitting on the shelf right now. i'm not going to squat on orders, so i'd say i can commit to a 'respectable' time frame. our pump consistently puts out more pressure than the cp-e pump. i am not trashing the pump anyone else makes, but this is a proven bit of information by several of our customers who data log our pumps VS others. reliability wise, our pump is very good and has been since we moved to the newest version of the parts used. we have another kit in the works that is going to be, bar none, the best we or anyone else in my opinion has ever sold.

[builthatch]

we have pumps and pump internals sitting on the shelf right now. i'm not going to squat on orders, so i'd say i can commit to a 'respectable' time frame.

oh, the only reason i said that is because i've seen people on another mazdaspeedforum complaining about unreasonable wait times, that's all. no offense ; )

if i happen to see that type of thing pop up, like sanch's thread on the other forum, i'll let them know you guys are stocked.

[Captain KRM P5]

oh, the only reason i said that is because i've seen people on another mazdaspeedforum complaining about unreasonable wait times, that's all. no offense ; )

if i happen to see that type of thing pop up, like sanch's thread on the other forum, i'll let them know you guys are stocked.

oh yeah, don't get me wrong, we've had long lead times on them before. i can't believe the demand on them. they fly off the shelves faster than we can get new batches made! i am sure the current stock will be gone by friday in fact.

[fructus]

So the only options right now are fully build CP-E pump or the PG internals kit, right?
The install of the internals looks pretty straight forward, but there's no piece of mind in form of the lifetime warranty, right?
And what are the chances something might go wrong and what could go wrong during the install of the internals?

[Speed3Rookie]

^ ...you are taking chances just like any other performance part. If you think cp-e or pg for that matter will replace your engine IF the pump/internals cause engine failure you are sadly mistaken.
Use either at YOUR own risk. :)

[Captain KRM P5]

So the only options right now are fully build CP-E pump or the PG internals kit, right?
The install of the internals looks pretty straight forward, but there's no piece of mind in form of the lifetime warranty, right?
And what are the chances something might go wrong and what could go wrong during the install of the internals?

i stopped building pumps in house. i don't like sitting on expensive cores and its simple enough with good tools, patience and mechanical understanding that the job can be done by ones self. if you install the internals wrong, worst case scenario is that the pump will seize and fail. this will NOT cause engine failure. i have been there, done that with some failed pumps or pumps not put together right. the car will go into "limp mode" via the computer and simply run poorly until the pump is replaced. i have never seen a motor blow from a bad pump install, bad pump assembly, etc. when you look at how the system works, you will see that the likelihood of that happening is pretty much nil.

[fructus]

Just ordered the internals. Thank you, Ken.

[Speed3Rookie]

Just ordered the internals. Thank you, Ken.
I have the pg internals...you'll love it. :)

[Captain KRM P5]

Just ordered the internals. Thank you, Ken.

check your email, you'll find a USPS delivery confirmation number within

[fructus]

Got it. Thank you.

[fructus]

Got the package in the mail. Thanks, Ken. Now to the hard part - the install. I'm a bit concerned about the fuel spillage. Does starting the car cold, removing the "blue circuit relay", and waiting until the car "dies" prevent it completely?

[Captain KRM P5]

following that, you should be ok and have little to no spill

[khoney]

Hell yes. Make the dealer check your pump. It doesnt go by the cars production date either. It depends on when the pump was made. There are numbees that can be seen on the pump once removed. It is in the TSB what number range is bad. If my engine blew thats the first hing i would make them check!

I managed to get a pic of my fuel pump without taking anything off (other than a hose) so I could read the build date. Looks like I missed the redesign by a few weeks - March 5, 2007 production date.

[fructus]

Below are the install intructions I found on one of the other forums. Could be helpful for everyone planning to do this. I hope the original poster wouldn't mind my posting the fruit of his labor here:

"I tackled a Speed 3 CDFP build at the CP-E/PG/DC meet last weekend and found it to be very simple. The following write up is hopefully going to help a bunch of you guys out and save you a ton of cash. Thank knyghtryda for the pictures, Darksun280 for the pump/donor Speed3, mrlilguy157 for the internals and info, and lastly me CraigHJR if the car runs afterwards.

Tools; E8 inverted torx, 17&19mm open end wrenches, one zip tie, 18mm deep 3/8” socket and long handle ratchet, bench vice with soft jaws and possibly a second set of hands, needle nose pliers, small dish of gas, misc 10mm wrenches and sockets.

Start with the car cold preferably.Remove the smaller blue relay in the under hood fuse box that says “circuit“.
Start the car and it should die when the fuel pressure runs low in 10 seconds. (if not the car being cold means the gas can't really catch fire though it will spray out at high pressure)Remove the entire battery box/ecu and turbo inlet hose if you want to make things easier for your self.
Locate the solid steel line under the CDFP and put a zip tie an inch under the 19mm nut.
This keeps the nut from wandering too far down the line.
Remove the 2 upper fuel lines and electrical connector.
The yellow clip hugs the plastic and has to be opened on both sides while slid out.
The blue clip has a twist motion to release the line.
Simultaneously use the 17mm open end to hold the lower base of the CDFP (this CAN NOT SPIN!!!) and the 19mm to break the nut loose (it will spin off easily once broken loose).
Use the E8 inverted torx to remove the 3 screws (back them out evenly as to not cock the spring loaded pump mechanism).
I will say that all that was the hard part and things will be easier from here on out.We are starting with this.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/Pumpoutofcar.jpg
First pull the spring and stock plunger straight out of the pump. This is the stock plunger (left) and upgrade internals and stock spring(right).
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/Plungeroutspringoff.jpg
Now support the pump in the bench vice a grab a buddy to steady this thing. Be careful of your lines and sealing surfaces against the vice. Remove the 18mm nut that is now exposed where the spring came off. Righty tighty and lefty loosey.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/Pullingthe18.jpg
Here you see the 18mm nut assembly removed.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/Pullingthecapoff.jpg
Now gently use needle nose pliers to lift the stock piston out. Notice the small shoulder and large shoulder on the piston. The large side points out towards you.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/Pullthestockpiston.jpg
Now dip all the reused and new parts in gasoline and then slide the upgrade piston and shaft into the 18mm cap. The small end with the retainer groove will be outside the pump. It is unclear if the internals come with the pistons on the shafts already but make sure yours looks like pictured in the first steps above before forcing anything together.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/Newgutsincap.jpg
With your finger push the shaft to reveal as much of the retainer groove side through the 18mm nut.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/newgutsallthewayin.jpg
Now slide the spring over the external side of the shaft and seat it on the grove it originally came off of. The spring retainer goes on next with the centering dish going into the spring. Put on the 2 retainer halves and balance everything. Push the retiner end into the assembly jamming the retainer into the spring retainer. The spring is now centered and assembled like pictured below.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/springinstalled.jpg
Let this assembly sit in gasoline for a few minutes and take a breather if you want. This pic is out of order in the build sequence you should have the spring installed at this point before reassambly.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/Soakingas.jpg
Make sure no foreign objects fell into your pump and begin to screw the assembled spring and piston assembly into the pump housing by hand.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/screwingitin.jpg
Once your confident the threads are engaged properly put that deep 18mm over the whole spring and tighten her down. I was not given a spec for this but it is very tight to remove so make it very tight. Again beware of the o-ring, fuel lines and now spring sticking up into the socket. I would say the pump is ready for reinstallation now. Put some fresh oil on the tip of the spring side that rides the camshaft and the o-ring. Use the 3 E-8’s to evenly and slowly draw the pump onto the head. Also be careful to not bend or mutilate the threads on the 17/19 mm stuff underneath by slightly wiggling the steel line downward to allow an even seating as the pump nears its final installed position. Make sure to hold the 17 and do not allow it to spin at all while putting the 19mm nut on. Do not cross thread the 19mm it will spin on freely by hand until the very last ½ turn.

If you made it this far I hope you can put everything else back together paying special attention to the turbo inlet hose being tightened down properly to the turbo.
You should disable the coil packs to allow the engine to crank and build up fuel pressure slightly before you just start the car up. There is a black or gray connector right next to the coil on cylinder 4 that will disconnect them all. If all is well you will be up and running now. If not you probably have a lot of noise and a lean condition which will lead you to be sitting in the same spot as Randy!!!
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/CDFP%20how%20to/Whenthingsgoboom.jpg"

[tru-boost]

Remove the battery box.... NOPE !!
Remove inlet pipe ....... NOPE !!!!
What a waste of time. Nonenof that is in the way. That will makw a 15 min. job take and hourband a half !!! That guy is nuts !