Stock Turbo on MS6

[USAFVMI08]

So I've done a search here and on google but I can't, for the life of me, figure out what kind of turbo the car has. For some reason K04 is ringing a bell but I don't know and I'm probably wrong. Any help with that?

Thanks! :)

[NCZ13]

its a K04

[USAFVMI08]

Sweet I was right! Thanks!

[Garry68]

There are two specs, one for EU countries and one for Japan and USA

K0422-882 was rated at 260hp for EU
K0422-881 was rated at 270hp for Japan and USA

This turbo was manufactured by BorgWarner Turbo Systems but it is a hybrid from three separate BW divisions. The CHRA (core assembly) was made in Germany (part number 5304 710 9901) the end housings by Turbo Energy which is a BW joint venture in India and the acutator / wastegate assembly came from Hitachi Warner Turbo Systems. The latter was a former JV but now discontinued.

If you need any other information, please let me know

[USAFVMI08]

That is a butt load of information! Thanks!

[Garry68]

I work for BW.....I guess i was in the right place at the right time bro haha

[Mistersix]

hey thanks! ya learn something new everyday:)

[PBWB]

bump

Isn't this turbo a single scroll just like the MS3's? I know the 2008+ Cobalt SS is supposed to have a twin scroll k04....

[Garry68]

Will pull a drawing when i'm back in the office to confirm if this is a twin or single scroll

[Silo]

Definitely a single scroll...

[1quickturbosix]

Our cars have turbo's!!!??? Why dont people tell me these kind of things!!!! haha. Single for sure... I think.

[Garry68]

Single volute confirmed guys

[Silo]

I am in contact with a tech person at BW Germany (where the CHRA is produced) and we are trying to get the specific boost eff. map for this turbo. The problem is that it depends on the housing as well and since this is build in India the map is not directly available to him. I have forwarded him all info that is on the housing and he is trying to obtain the information for us.

[Garry68]

Hi Silo,

If my colleague in Germany cannot get you the information you are looking for please let me know. I have my own contacts at our joint venture company in India who might be able to help.

Which ever BW division did the testing is the one which will have the necessary maps and I'm not 100% sure where we homologated this engine series.

[Silo]

Garry, you have PM. :)

[tunersteve]

Interesting, lots of info here. Can you elaborate possibly on why the turbo seals are prone to failure on the K04s for the DISI motor?

[bova80]

they are floating seals, so oil is more prone to getting by them

[Garry68]

Both ball bearing and floating bush bearing systems still have to retain oil within the CHRA (negligible amounts can seep) but there are a lot of reasons why oil can leak from the bearing housing into the end housings, none of which are manufacturing related......unless of course we "forgot" to put the piston rings / seal plates into the CHRA on the assembly line.

Some applications are prone to problems due to the installation conditions or because of the other engine parts which surround the turbo. For example, if the crank pressure gets too high you get oil leaks. If you block or restrict air through the air filter you get an oil leak, if your oil pump is pushing too much pressure....guess what happens?

Turbos leak oil or fail for a reason, if you don't investigate the reason then repairing / replacing a turbo would be pointless as you are highly likely to see the same problem happen again in a relatively short time.

[bova80]

+1 on that. its likely the seals aren't failing but they are just leaking. i mean i guess you could say that is failing but i wouldn't say that is so. its just the way the turbo is designed. i use 5w40 oil to prevent the oil from leaking since its a bit heavier. has done the trick so far.

[Garry68]

You may want to up that back to 10w/40 during winter months otherwise your oil pump will be pushing molasses through your engine haha

What you don't want to see is to have blue smoke pouring from the exhaust while the engine is under load.....the EPA would not approve. If you can see smoke in the rear view mirror then the seals are going to need replacing.

When the car is idling at low speed for long periods of time there may be a very small build up of oil at the compressor end which is due to a slight vacuum effect which occurs behind the compressor wheel but as soon as you step on the gas this would clean up immediately.

[bova80]

actually 5w40 is better during the winter months seeing as how the 5 is the winter weight and the lower the number the thinner. you would want to run a 10w40 in summer months.

[Garry68]

Yup....I had brain freeze earlier (chair)

[Garry68]

Silo ....you have PM

[Silo]

Replied yesterday! :)

[Garry68]

Found the comp map on another forum yesterday but I can tell you that basically the standard turbo at factory Mazda settings is running pretty close to the choke line so once you guys start modding then it pushes the turbo speeds beyond its optimum compressor efficiency.

[GioDiGreek]

Can you give us any numbers or graphs? I would like to see how is in comparison with other turbos

[Myriad]

Garry68, I'm curious what your take is on the PG turbo rebuild for the stock k04. I know in the supercharger world a port/polish and internal modification on a stock blower works wonders, but does the same apply with this setup? I'm mainly asking since I am still undecided if I want to go the rebuild route or start working towards upgrading components to support a larger turbo in the future. I'm not looking for massive gains, just looking to keep things in line on a slightly bumped up scale.

[Silo]

Here you go...

[Garry68]

I cannot find the PG website but if you PM me I will take a look before I pass comment.

Silo has been so kind as to upload the compressor map and perhaps be able to assist you guys with more information about alternative comp stages.

[GioDiGreek]

Silo Thank you very much sir for the quick post. I just have the same delima with Myriad. I love the power gains but on the safe side. I strongly believe that engineers put a lot of effort to built a turbocharged engine with DISI technology and had their reasons to choose this turbine. Always room for improvement but what is right? Unfortunately for me I don't have the space and tools to research and experiment with the turbines. Just thru theory research. So every little info counts for me and I guess for other tuners.

[Garry68]

Ok from reading over the PG article it seems that they have polished / plated the comp cover which would give slightly better aerodynamic performance anyway due to relative aerodynamic drag factors.

Additionally, they are using a slightly larger compressor wheel which is billet aluminum so not only is it able to flow slightly more air, it can do so operating with slightly higher tip speeds. Although the original compressor wheel was not exactly moving at snail pace with a maximum tip speed ca. 520 m/sec (169,000 rpm) the billet wheel can operate ca. 560 m/sec however they would not usually be running near their maximum at standard factory settings.

So long as the comp cover is re profiled correctly to take the larger wheel then there should be no problems in achieving more airflow at the same factory boost pressure setting, therefore a "safer" higher HP and TQ output.

GioDiGreek - When turbos and engines are matched we predominantly look at emissions and fuel efficiency. High HP and TQ numbers are just a by-product of these key factors. Basically, the faster the turbo is able to operate, the better fuel efficiency and lower emissions you get due to improved AF ratios.

This is a very strong trend is Europe now where you can find small turbocharged 1.4 litre engines which run very low gas mpg, have great emissions but have very high power to weight ratios. God bless emissions legislation!!

[GioDiGreek]

I remember when I was living in Greece I had a FIAT PUNTO 1.4 liter engine with turbo. Factory stock was producing 134HP. With full exhaust and "chip" and intake 186HP. Amazingly strong. Also FIAT had another engine natural aspired wich called "FIRE" 1 liter 100HP. Full ball bearing. Good Memories. So Garry let me ask you, my speed6 is 2007. Do you know if is a different turbine setup between years? I heard also at the dealer the mechanic was replacing turbochargers on speed 3s because of failure. Is our speed6 ok ? Thank you.

[Garry68]

Hey Gio, pretty impressive numbers out of your FIAT. You know what FIAT stands for right..... Fix It Again Tony!!!

The K04 turbo is fine running in the 3 and 6 at under normal conditions. Start to add non factory parts to increase the power and problems CAN happen but not to say WILL happen.

If you guys are really looking to put some extra boost into your engine then the K04 would not be the most suitable solution IMO.

[GioDiGreek]

I am not looking for carzy things. Just some bolt ons. CAI, Access Port form COBB, turbo back exhaust and mabe a front mount intercooler. It will be too much? Thank you.

[Garry68]

Hi Gio, it is not possible for me to give you a "correct" answer. Any modifications are done at your own risk and of course, are not recommended or supported by the vehicle manufacturer hence the voiding of warranty.