Blizzak LM-25 vs. Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow

[Thppbt]

I have been considering getting snow tires for my '08 GT AWD for a while, but this past weekend clinched it. I was driving home with just a coating of snow on the road, and whenever I applied the brake I immediately went into a slide. Fortunately I made it home safely.

So I am shopping on TireRack (http://www.tirerack.com), and I am trying to decide between getting 20" Blizzak LM-25's @$245 ea. or 17" Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow with Sport Edition F10 rims @$282 ea. + TPMS. Has anybody had experience with the Pirelli's? Would you recommend something else? Getting the spare 17" rims seems to be a more expensive option in the short term, but I may save money in the long run if I can avoid the re-mounting fee twice a year.

I called my dealer to get their opinion, and they suggested that I don't need winter tires. He claimed that AWD was enough, and that winter tires would not help stopping on slippery roads. (screwy) I think he needs to read all of the negative feedback on this forum about the OEM Bridgestones. So needless to say, I won't be seeking his opinion any more.

[SeCX-9]

I have been considering getting snow tires for my '08 GT AWD for a while, but this past weekend clinched it. I was driving home with just a coating of snow on the road, and whenever I applied the brake I immediately went into a slide. Fortunately I made it home safely.

So I am shopping on TireRack (http://www.tirerack.com), and I am trying to decide between getting 20" Blizzak LM-25's @$245 ea. or 17" Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow with Sport Edition F10 rims @$282 ea. + TPMS. Has anybody had experience with the Pirelli's? Would you recommend something else? Getting the spare 17" rims seems to be a more expensive option in the short term, but I may save money in the long run if I can avoid the re-mounting fee twice a year.

I called my dealer to get their opinion, and they suggested that I don't need winter tires. He claimed that AWD was enough, and that winter tires would not help stopping on slippery roads. (screwy) I think he needs to read all of the negative feedback on this forum about the OEM Bridgestones. So needless to say, I won't be seeking his opinion any more.


I've read the feedback on the message boards and TireRAck as well with the Bridgestone and I am scared to death of my first snow storm here in Boston.

I am considering the exact same option. However, I am considering saving some $ tires and rims. Looking at downsizing from the 245/50 R20 to 235/65 R18. The Blizzak DMZ3s are $137 Each, $66 each for the TPMS and $131 each for the Sport Edition ST4 rims. This was a much cheaper solution than the 20" rims. Total comes out to be $1400 shipped to Boston. This way I just swap out the entire tires and rims without all the remounting and scraping.

I'll probably be pulling the trigger in the next few days.

[Mazda3]

First off, your dealer is a moron.

I have used a few set's of Blizzak tires over the years , they are excellent. I haven't tried the Pirelli personally, but everyone who has them seems to be happy. I have Nokian tires on both my vehicles and they are great.

[pitt]

I had the post of the Grand Touring/tire concerns. Originals were the 20's with the Duellers...keeping them for spring through fall. I have also purchased and installed Blizzak DMZ3's 235-65-18 with their own 18" wheels. Bought the wheels through Tire Rack and had the local Firestone store match the pricing of Tire Rack along with the wheels/tires installed. Then paid $65 for a lifetime mounting balancing. They will switch the wheels off and on each time then at no additional charge. Have used the DMZ3's several times in the snow here in Ohio, and they are a great winter tire with good handling.

[tb88]

I bought a 17" package from TireRack with the Winterforce snow tires. This vehicle did great in the snow with those tires. I tried to get the tires to spin but could not. They are not a performance tire, only a pure snow tire. I bought them because I have experience with them and nothing compares when you look at the price of them.

[Thppbt]

Based on feedback from this forum and from Tirerack, I decided to go with the Bridgestone Blizzak DMZ3's, rather than the LM-25's, and Sport Edition KV4 18" rims. I chose to trade-off a bit of dry road performance for ultimate snow traction. I'll post my opinion of the setup after I've had a chance to put some miles on them.

Thanks

[SeCX-9]

Based on feedback from this forum and from Tirerack, I decided to go with the Bridgestone Blizzak DMZ3's, rather than the LM-25's, and Sport Edition KV4 18" rims. I chose to trade-off a bit of dry road performance for ultimate snow traction. I'll post my opinion of the setup after I've had a chance to put some miles on them.

Thanks


I pulled the trigger at the exact same time today on TireRack. Same setup.
Should be here by Friday.

[DSherwood]

LM-25 4x4 18 inchers with sport rims from tire rack, excellent traction and pretty darn good in the dry. No complaints. Yes, I know the diameter isn't 100% to the originals, but 1mph at 55 isn't a big deal.

Besides the stability control actually lets you toss the car a bit in slippery conditions. Great tire combo/ for a great cx9.

[kosh2258]

I've been running the DMZ3's on my 9 for about two weeks with constant snow, ice, and winter in general here in Minnesota.

The simplest thing to say is that these tires are worth the price of admission. The difference between them and the Dueler/400's on snow and ice is significant. If you get them you won't regret the purchase.
No wheel spin starting out, no sliding at intersections when stopping or going around corners. I've yet to have the antilock brakes kick in stopping at an intersection and I haven't been driving conservatively either.
The 9 feels pretty much like it will go just about anywhere with the DMZ3's. It's about as night and day as you can get.

[sbmrinaldi]

Can anyone post up a pic with the Blizzak and Sport Edition KV4's? I would like to know what they look like. In addition is there a decent 20" snow tire out there competitively priced? TireRack has some nice MODA rims on clearance in 20" for $149. I would like that setup if there is a good priced 20 snow out there.

[SeCX-9]

Can anyone post up a pic with the Blizzak and Sport Edition KV4's? I would like to know what they look like. In addition is there a decent 20" snow tire out there competitively priced? TireRack has some nice MODA rims on clearance in 20" for $149. I would like that setup if there is a good priced 20 snow out there.

Tire Rack will let you show test fit them on your car, on the screen. You pick out the rims, wheels, color of your car, and you can see them online.

I have the 18" Blizzaks on my car, but with the ST-3 Rims that are pretty dirty for a photo right now.

[jshape]

I am running 20" Goodyear Wrangler HPs on mine 08 GT AWD and am happy with the results. This morning might have been the worst driving day I have had in years and the Wranglers were great - no issues. If I were on the Bridgestone Duelers, I'd be in a ditch somewhere. Undoubtedly the worst all-weather tire I have used in snow.

[sbmrinaldi]

I found a nicer looking wheel in my opinion at Discount Tire (Momo) but they have only the DunlopGrandtrek snow tire in an 18" for $207 each. A huge cry from the Blizzak at $137. I would really like to go this route, but mounted, balanced and with TPMS to the door it is $1500. I was hoping for around $1200 which would be doable with the price of the Blizzak.

Tire Rack will let you show test fit them on your car, on the screen. You pick out the rims, wheels, color of your car, and you can see them online.

I have the 18" Blizzaks on my car, but with the ST-3 Rims that are pretty dirty for a photo right now.

[tb88]

I bought a 17" package with winterforce snows from tirerack for around $1000 for my wife's GT

[iziedins]

I bought a 17" package with winterforce snows from tirerack for around $1000 for my wife's GT

Hi, could you please confirm that 17" wheels is ok for CX9 GT, the deler told me that there could be problems with brake ventelation that the iner diametr is to smol it could not to be enough spase to cleare the brakes.
What brand wheels do you have.

Imants

[tb88]

Hi, could you please confirm that 17" wheels is ok for CX9 GT, the deler told me that there could be problems with brake ventelation that the iner diametr is to smol it could not to be enough spase to cleare the brakes.
What brand wheels do you have.

Imants

I sent you a PM

[wakblak]

I sent you a PM

Can you let the rest of us in on what the 17" conclusion is?

[DSherwood]

FYI, many good snow tires out there, make sure that if your planning any sport driving, get something that can handle it, what I mean is that the grandtrek is a great snow tire, lousy handling tires on pavement, no offensive to anyone, a truck suv tire is different than a high performance winter tire.

[sbmrinaldi]

I bit the bullet and ordered a winter tire/rim set. I have coming the Pirelli Ice and Snow tires with Momo V-10 wheels in a 19's. It was the same price as the 18's so I had to go that route. I doubt that I will notice a handling difference between the two.

[bill42]

I have stated a few times in posts from last season that I was impressed with the factory all season tires in the snow, but that I would be getting snow tires eventually like I always do for my cars. In my opinion, the factory tires when brand new really aren't that bad. I drove hundreds of miles last year in 8 inches of snow on unplowed roads and the CX-9 was the best car I have ever driven using factory all seasons. I never got stuck and I was able to climb hills. However as others state time and time again, nothing beats dedicated winter tires for stopping on ice or snow. I recently chose to get Pirelli Scorpions over the Blizzacks. In NY state, most of my winter driving will be on dry roads, and the major complaint of Blizzacks is that they handle very poorly at highway speeds on dry pavement. I chose to go for a better handling snow tire and sacrifice a bit of ice traction.
Well I drove for the first time in some light snow, and boy was I impressed with the Scorpions! I can stop in what seems like half the distance compared to the factory tires. I can accelerate as if there is no snow at all on the ground. I have owned 3 other sets of winter tires in the past and these are the best ones I have ever driven with so far. I don't want to start a war with the Blizzack fans. I am sure their tires are a bit better when stopping on ice. But for me, I am now convinced that I made the right choice in buying the Pirelli Scorpions, both for the way that I drive and for the area that I live in. I would buy these tires again for my next car.
Here is a pic of the tire with the budget rims that I bought from tirerack.

[wakblak]

What size are those? 18"s?

[bill42]

indeed. 18s with the same tire height as the 20s.

[CX9inMA]

Great thread.

My research and analysis has lead me to choose between the Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow and Blizzak LM-25.

I am truly torn between getting a set of rims (Sport Edition SE-14) and dedicated tires (DM-Z3, Winterforce, etc.) for the winter only, as many of you have done, or simply trying to find the best compromise between performance and safety at 20". I am leaning toward the latter, and that would logically lead me to choose the Pirelli's.

One issue I have though is that they only come in 255 mm width and not the standard 245. Someone posted in another thread (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123719287&page=3) that a dealer said that width should be fine for the Dueler H/L Alenzas, but would that hold true for the Scorpions as well? The difference between 255 and 245 in approximately 0.39371 inches.

So my question is, assuming that would work, should this deviation from standard be enough to sway me to select the Blizzaks, which come in the standard 245 width? And if so, how much "performance" would I be losing by doing so; not to mention wear & tear? That being said, after the nightmare of a trip we had to NH and back New Year's Eve on half-balded stock Duelers with 50K miles on them, I think I may be inclined to go the safer route.

Decisions, decisions...

[bill42]

ANy winter tires you buy get very soft in the summer and will wear down very quickly, so if you plan on making them last for a few seasons you have to take them off in the summer. If you don't have dedicated wheels, you are looking at a few hours waiting at a tire shop, and a few hundred dollars twice a year as well. If you have the space to store 4 tires, get them on dedicated rims. The smaller 17 or 18 inch size reduces the cost of the package so it is not that much more money that buying 4 20 inch winter tires.
As for choosing between the 2, I don't think the extra centimeter makes much of a difference. There is a button on your NAV to reset tire rotation if you change diameters. You might want to hit that. The Pirellis are going to give you a bit longer life as the blizzacks have that dual compound tread that wears out after a few seasons changing the way the tire performs more quickly than the single compound Pirellis. You are in the North East USA like me- most of the winter you will not be driving on snow. The Pirellis in my biased opinion are the best tire for you because they are awesome in the snow and they are not that bad when going 80 on the highway.

[CX9inMA]

ANy winter tires you buy get very soft in the summer and will wear down very quickly, so if you plan on making them last for a few seasons you have to take them off in the summer. If you don't have dedicated wheels, you are looking at a few hours waiting at a tire shop, and a few hundred dollars twice a year as well. If you have the space to store 4 tires, get them on dedicated rims. The smaller 17 or 18 inch size reduces the cost of the package so it is not that much more money that buying 4 20 inch winter tires.
As for choosing between the 2, I don't think the extra centimeter makes much of a difference. There is a button on your NAV to reset tire rotation if you change diameters. You might want to hit that. The Pirellis are going to give you a bit longer life as the blizzacks have that dual compound tread that wears out after a few seasons changing the way the tire performs more quickly than the single compound Pirellis. You are in the North East USA like me- most of the winter you will not be driving on snow. The Pirellis in my biased opinion are the best tire for you because they are awesome in the snow and they are not that bad when going 80 on the highway.

Thanks Bill.

I had another discussion with one of the local tire tech's and have come to the same conclusion. To do what I am thinking of I would need to have two sets of tires and rotate between seasons. Since we live only a couple miles from the coast in southern Plymouth, I don't think that will be necessary. If we were up in the back woods of Vermont then I would definitely go with the Scorpions though. It's just common sense based on geography.

Another factor for me is that I have to replace my original Dueler high performance tires, so I would actually have to buy TWO sets of tires AND wheels for the snows. Yikes!

The guy I am dealing with recommended sticking with the standard size over adjusting the NAVI, and I tend to agree. I am going to go with the Toyo PROXES S/T II 245/50 R20 102V as originally planned. This guy swears these are manufactured for New England weather. So there will be a trade off in some slippage, I am sure, but it's necessary to try and meet both needs with one tire. I am trusting him that this tire will suit my needs as he seems quite knowledgeable and has talked me out of far more expensive options.

[sbmrinaldi]

Here is the Pirelli Snow and Ice on the Momo V10's. I bought the machined black Momo's. They do have the all silver wheel as well. Actually I have a new set of the all silver, they sent them to me by mistake mounted to my tires. Discount Tire in turn then had to send out the black machine face rims to swap out with the silver. It was a pain to haul all this locally and do what should have been done by Discount Tire, but we are working it out.

[wakblak]

Looks good, how is the performance?

[sbmrinaldi]

If you are talking about mine, the Pirelli Ice and Snow so far seem to be night and day difference. And we have had some serious snow this past week. No problems getting around at all. Hated to spend the money but well worth it.

[SeCX-9]

Can anyone post up a pic with the Blizzak and Sport Edition KV4's? I would like to know what they look like. In addition is there a decent 20" snow tire out there competitively priced? TireRack has some nice MODA rims on clearance in 20" for $149. I would like that setup if there is a good priced 20 snow out there.

Just went through the car wash here in Mass.

Here are photos of my Blizzak DMZ-3s on the Sport Edition ST3s from Tire Rack. These are 18".

[not_too_shabby]

Time to resurrect this thread. Looks like for the 18" wheels tirerack offers the Blizzaks or Pirellis. The Blizzaks now have a DM-V1 model and the Pirellis are the scorpions which I have on our mercedes and seem to be good. To get the pirellis you have to drop down to 235 width, but narrower is better for snows anyways I believe.

[SeCX-9]

Time to resurrect this thread. Looks like for the 18" wheels tirerack offers the Blizzaks or Pirellis. The Blizzaks now have a DM-V1 model and the Pirellis are the scorpions which I have on our mercedes and seem to be good. To get the pirellis you have to drop down to 235 width, but narrower is better for snows anyways I believe.

I just checked the Bridgestone site, and their matching system reports the LM-60 Blizzak model. Perhaps that's matching the exact tire size. I went down to 18"

[mihalis]

I'm confused why all you guys are going with 18's...I checked tirerack and they recommended going down to 17's...probably b/c I have a Touring. Probably just stick with the 18's then and check a local tire store to see what they offer...I know if you get winter tires from a local shop they offer free mount and balance swaps when every season changes, which is a huge savings, b/c I don't have to get rims, or TPMS sensors.

[bill42]

I am sure 17s are fine but at that point you are going to a taller sidewall in order to maintain the overall tire height of the stock tires. I think most feel as I do in that they want to maintain as much handling as possible for the times there is no snow on the ground. If I had snow all winter I would have had no problem buying 17s.

[not_too_shabby]

I bought a set of take off OEM 18" CX-9 wheels with TMPS and brand new tires on ebay for $400...that is why I am going with 18s. I have since put 8000 miles on the oem duellers that were on there(anybody want to buy them?). I will pull them off shortly and put on the dedicated snows, and then put my 20s back on in the spring.

[09sxy9]

Hi all,
Okay, it is that time of year and we are finally purchasing our dedicated winter snow tires. I have a 09 GT-AWD with 20" rims. With all of our previous vehicles (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Subuaru, Toyota Truck, we have always had studded tires. We live in Truckee, CA, a mountain/snow community, and I drive a steady 10% grade approx. 3/4 mile long, and other slopes on mountain roads daily. We also get the lowest temperature gradient in the nation, highs to lows, so we go from ice, snow, slush, etc. in a day.

I have finally convinced my husband to go from studded to non-studded tires for the Sexy-9 (he is getting studded tires again for our Cherokee, our last set lasted 5 seasons, and now we removed the studs and use the tires for summer), and our local tire shop convinced him to get 17" rims instead of 18", which is originally what I wanted. Anyhow, the best option for this size rim seems to be the BLIZZAK DM-V1 $130/tire), which are new this year, replacing the DM-Z3. We are going through our local store vs. tirerack.com as they will switch out our tires 2x/year on both cars free of charge.

He also thinks we will skip the TPMS due to cost, as we are told when they swap the tire out, they also charge to reset or disconnect or ?? This part I don't understand. We will keep the tires on hopefully for only 4 months of the year...(Novemberish to Marchish) depending on snow levels, and we can cover up the TPMS light if it bothers us.

My question is, does anyone have any opinions about this set up with 17" rims. I am afraid it may look a little small for the car, but I don't know, as I haven't seen any pics. I suspect handling should be about the same for 17 vs. 18, but then again, I am not knowlegeable in this area. All opinions are welcome!! Thanks:)

[09sxy9]

Hi all,
Okay, it is that time of year and we are finally purchasing our dedicated winter snow tires. I have a 09 GT-AWD with 20" rims. With all of our previous vehicles (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Subuaru, Toyota Truck, we have always had studded tires. We live in Truckee, CA, a mountain/snow community, and I drive a steady 10% grade approx. 3/4 mile long, and other slopes on mountain roads daily. We also get the lowest temperature gradient in the nation, highs to lows, so we go from ice, snow, slush, etc. in a day.

I have finally convinced my husband to go from studded to non-studded tires for the Sexy-9 (he is getting studded tires again for our Cherokee, our last set lasted 5 seasons, and now we removed the studs and use the tires for summer), and our local tire shop convinced him to get 17" rims instead of 18", which is originally what I wanted. Anyhow, the best option for this size rim seems to be the BLIZZAK DM-V1 $130/tire), which are new this year, replacing the DM-Z3. We are going through our local store vs. tirerack.com as they will switch out our tires 2x/year on both cars free of charge.

He also thinks we will skip the TPMS due to cost, as we are told when they swap the tire out, they also charge to reset or disconnect or ?? This part I don't understand. We will keep the tires on hopefully for only 4 months of the year...(Novemberish to Marchish) depending on snow levels, and we can cover up the TPMS light if it bothers us.

My question is, does anyone have any opinions about this set up with 17" rims. I am afraid it may look a little small for the car, but I don't know, as I haven't seen any pics. I suspect handling should be about the same for 17 vs. 18, but then again, I am not knowlegeable in this area. All opinions are welcome!! Thanks:)

[l-miwa]

Based on the posts on this forum, there are a lot of us that are using takeoff 18's as our winter wheels and a lot that are using 17" wheels from Tire Rack. Both options seem to work well.

It isn't so much a question of rim size as it is the outside diameter of the tire. The standard 18" rims on the Touring and the standard 20" rims on the GT both end up with the same outside diameter of the tire because the aspect ration of the tires is different. As long as your dealer is installing the appropriate size tire on your 17" rims, it shouldn't be a problem.

The TPMS sensor is built into the valve stem. To move it from one wheel to another requires unscrewing the retaining nut and installing it on another rim. Very easy, but it requires that the tires be removed from the rims. I just got a second set of TPMS sensors for my winter wheels. Personally, I think having the TPMS sensors on the winter tires is more important than the summer tires, as I'm more likely to end up with a low/flat tire in the winter.