whats faster, bone stock Neon srt4 or the MS3

[18psiWhiteMS3]

exactly what the title says.

[nvmsp]

ms3

[lynnriderm6]

idk they both are pritty fast the numbers that come with the srt-4 which is 230hp 250trq thats not to the crank thats to the wheels..and even at that they down play those numbers lol but the speed 3 is also what 262 hp 280 trq but thats to the crank not to the wheels also the 3 has more weight then the srt4 which the srt4 weighs like 2900 pounds the speed 3 is what like 33 3400...my gf has a 05 srt-4 no mods and she ran a 14.3 at 102.96 mph 1/4mile and thats with her boggin 2nd like a bitch lol but the speed 3 is alot safer i think the srt4 would win in a straight line race

[eg6motion]

idk they both are pritty fast the numbers that come with the srt-4 which is 230hp 250trq thats not to the crank thats to the wheels..and even at that they down play those numbers lol but the speed 3 is also what 262 hp 280 trq but thats to the crank not to the wheels also the 3 has more weight then the srt4 which the srt4 weighs like 2900 pounds the speed 3 is what like 33 3400...my gf has a 05 srt-4 no mods and she ran a 14.3 at 102.96 mph 1/4mile and thats with her boggin 2nd like a bitch lol but the speed 3 is alot safer i think the srt4 would win in a straight line race

the ms3 is a bit north of 3100lbs.

[RC08MS3]

some SRT's can hit 13.9's with a decent driver, and had ruled the FWD turbo scene until the ms3 came around. Its a drivers race. But you have to remember, they have power balls to the walls through all gears, we dont. if we had full power 1st and 2nd like them, i think the MS3 would top the SRT

I may be getting a little off topic, but im not biased to any car, so im not going to say the MS3 rules right off the top.

[Sport6]

Stock Speed3 running 13.74 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_hfU0Dknss&feature=related)

Though that looked to be on slicks.

13.95 stock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xumk_VbvcNM)

[speed3guy]

yeah its more a drivers race and how well the car is driven. The cars are so identical when it comes to who faster that it just matters whos more experienced in the car.

[nvmsp]

what? are you kidding me. With less mods I beat. An 05 srt4 LSD,230/250tq...2nd,3rd gear. Didnt beat him by much but beat him. Worse case scenario we are dead even or max maybe a car faster then me if he messed up or something. Not pulling on me hard at all no matter what scenario though.

And I have a MSP. So the ms3 better be faster.

[RC08MS3]

^^^ do you know how many SRT's claim the same as you? google there forums about MS3's or any Turbo FWD, youll hear endless stories. But the fact we are talked about so much does show they have to work against us, not just walk all over us. Im not saying you didnt beat him, but we are talking stock for stock, not mod for mod.

[SwampAss]

they both run about the same.

People say the MS3 has the better interior, fit, and finish, and others say the SRT-4 Neon is more visceral and raw.

I like both cars. I prefer hatchbacks personally. I think both cars have excellent powerplants. I wish we had the SRT4's aftermarket.

[niz55]

exactly what the title says.

why dont you go and race one. Man 247 is a joke.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

well i had an srt4, and the reason i was asking is cause i think this car is faster but thought maybe you guys would know for sure. but yea they must be close.

[martin_nj]

car and driver rated it higher than 6 other cars, neon wasn't even in the running

[chrisp]

srt4 is slightly faster according to magazines....as long as you dont have to turn or need a car that will not blow up

[RC08MS3]

car and driver rated it higher than 6 other cars, neon wasn't even in the running

Yea, overall the MS3 outrates the SRT, I.E. quality, interior, exterior, handling, aerodynamics, all the important stuff.

The dodge guys are trying to pitch that the Caliber SRT is suppose to be the new MS3 competition seeing the neon is discontinued. Even tho it looks like shit (blarf)

[chrisp]

Yea, overall the MS3 outrates the SRT, I.E. quality, interior, exterior, handling, aerodynamics, all the important stuff.

The dodge guys are trying to pitch that the Caliber SRT is suppose to be the new MS3 competition seeing the neon is discontinued. Even tho it looks like shit (blarf)

right, but the question was which car is faster, not overall ratings

[18psiWhiteMS3]

well i owned both, even though i asked the question, i still feel like my Ms3 is faster then my srt4. maybe i just have bad memory though, i havent owned my srt4 for 2 years now. my srt4 had dynoed 277hp 292tq and it feels just like my ms3

[RC08MS3]

right, but the question was which car is faster, not overall ratings

Right, and i wasent answering that question or any question at all for that matter, i was commenting on marin_nj 's comment, hence the quote....

[lynnriderm6]

well ive drivin both the srt-4s power is to the wheels its prob alil higher then 230hp 250trq now if you want to talk about safty and how nice the 3 is i mean shit if you crash the srt4 you better be going only lik 20 or the whole car will b destroyd lol but i mean ive seen both run at the track and i mean stock to stock its a close race handling the srt4s arnt that bad they hug corners pritty good ..but dont try doing a Uturn or youll end up doing a 3 point turn lol but you know what out handles both of them a MS6 ;) lol :D but i would say a srt4 would win in a straight race 1/4 mile and for the msp kid idk that srt4 driver must of suckd because ive drivin both cars and the srt4 is alottttttttttttttt faster then a msp

[LASERBLUE135]

2005 SRT ACR FTW. faster in a straight line, and in turns. stock. cheaper and with better aftermarket.

The srt is an amazing car for what it is...a low rent racer.

The MS3 is a beautiful car. Very powerful, nice 6 speed, great interior, features, and hatchback utility. But bottom line, the srt is faster if we're all adults and put away our personal preferences.

and now the new Cobalt is the king in a straight line, AND in turns.

(the MS3 is the better "vehicle", which is good, you know we drive these things on the street!)

[Redlinez]

I watched a Cobalt SS/TC run a 13.4 @ 106 with just poly engine and trans mounts, HP Tuners, and a shifter. The guy was on his first passes in a FWD coming from a 95 Z28. Those things have set course records in FWD autoxing as well. I just don't understand why they had to put those ugly gray and black seats in when they had a nice looking black one last year.
I MS3 is a much more refined, quality built, and user friendly car than the SRT4. New vs new, to me, there is no contest. I would buy the MS3 if they were both on the market at the same time.

[lynnriderm6]

plus we are talking about the neon srt-4 not the caliber srt4 the csrt4 is alot slower then the neon we have lik 5 srt4s in my car club and 1 csrt4 and all of the neon srt4s are alot faster then the caliber well atleast in the 1/4 i think the csrt4 is fast after 3rd gear lol but dont get me wrong either the ms3 has a bunch of stuff in it thats luxary the srt4 has NOTHING lol like a cd player...it has roll down windows in the back lol

[nvmsp]

well ive drivin both the srt-4s power is to the wheels its prob alil higher then 230hp 250trq now if you want to talk about safty and how nice the 3 is i mean shit if you crash the srt4 you better be going only lik 20 or the whole car will b destroyd lol but i mean ive seen both run at the track and i mean stock to stock its a close race handling the srt4s arnt that bad they hug corners pritty good ..but dont try doing a Uturn or youll end up doing a 3 point turn lol but you know what out handles both of them a MS6 ;) lol :D but i would say a srt4 would win in a straight race 1/4 mile and for the msp kid idk that srt4 driver must of suckd because ive drivin both cars and the srt4 is alottttttttttttttt faster then a msp

and if my car was stock I'd agree with you but since in wasnt/isnt and I know how to drive it.... there you go.

[UHATEIT]

this is a good converastion/thread. I was looking at a used 2004 srt-4 at the same time i bought my speed3. I spent 21K on my 2008 speed3 while i would have spent 11K for a 2004 srt-4. Would have cost me 1/2 the price.... but people told me the srt-4 was cheaply made, my wife had a neon before and the interior was very rental-car-ish on the inside so i doubted that the srt-4 would be of quality like the ms3 is.

power wise, hopefully i made the right choice over getting the srt-4, but as for quality of the car/interior/looks.build I know i made the right choice getting the ms3.

[lynnriderm6]

well what i dont like people say that the srt-4 is just a neon it has a differnt kit it has dif rims it has a way dif engine lol the inside is alil blah but i mean they do come with nice seats the srt4 basicly the acr srt4 comes stock so you can put a 5 point harness on it also i like the stock sound of the srt4s sounds like a truck or a muscle car the 03 srt4s where cheaply made no lsd :(

[oaklandopen]

car mags had faster 0-60 times than the ms3 has. i believe around 5.2-5.4 seconds

a lot of guys like to lift up the rears on the srt4's to put more weight on the drive wheels

[719prottege]

(jerkit)too bad the srt4 is gay...

[Donas64]

(jerkit)too bad the srt4 is gay...

and so it begins.

[lynnriderm6]

why do you guys hate on srt4s...they a domestic with a import heart and its the best bang for your buck

[lil_red_wagon]

i can see where this is going, i don't want to see a flamewar here and that is exactly where we are headed.

[Speed3Rookie]

(iagree)
In b4 da lock....

[MicaSp33d]

why dont you go and race one. Man 247 is a joke.

if you think this is a joke ... check out the MKV GTI forums. They have a GTI vs. tread that is all a bunch of "I almost beat this" .. or "i didn't lose that bad to this" .. and so on .. it was pretty funnie ...

[PCspeed3]

Just go rent an SRT4 from enterprize if you really wanna drive it......sheesh.

[240ka]

why do you guys hate on srt4s...they a domestic with a import heart and its the best bang for your buck

fully. i see the srt4 as an import with a domestic badge.

[240ka]

Just go rent an SRT4 from enterprize if you really wanna drive it......sheesh.

ive never seen a srt4 at any enterprise dealer

[FrequentFlyer]

Just go rent an SRT4 from enterprize if you really wanna drive it......sheesh.

And a Mazda3 is too good to be a rental? Both the Neon and Mazda3 are economy cars. The Mazda3 is probably just as Enterprise worthy as the Neon. The SRT-4 and MS3 just happened to be high performance derivatives of low budget chassis.

[Donas64]

Just go rent an SRT4 from enterprize if you really wanna drive it......sheesh.

wait....you can rent those from enterprise?

*runs out the door to the nearest enterprise rent-a-car*

(drive2)

[lynnriderm6]

ya if i could rent a srt4 at a enterprise i would be there just pay an extra lik 20 bucks for insurence and beat the living hell outta it...that was a dumb thing to say since you cant rent out a srt4 maybe a neon but i bet you can rent a mazda3 as well the 2.0 bottom of the line of mazda3's

[MicaSp33d]

y rent a srt4? go rent a vette from hertz lol

[240ka]

y rent a srt4? go rent a vette from hertz lol

yeah, for reaal

[Kain]

lawl.

"Oh, drats! My Bentley is in the shop yet again, and I have an appointment with my tennis instructor at noon. Whatever shall I do? Hmm, perhaps I can visit a... what do the commoners call it? Oh yes, a rental car store, I believe. But what to rent? The Rolls Royce is too obnoxious, the Ferrari too flashy... oh, I know! A Neon SRT-4! Nothing says, 'I have arrived' like pulling into the country club in a loud skittle."

[chrisp]

2005 SRT ACR FTW. faster in a straight line, and in turns. stock. cheaper and with better aftermarket.

The srt is an amazing car for what it is...a low rent racer.

The MS3 is a beautiful car. Very powerful, nice 6 speed, great interior, features, and hatchback utility. But bottom line, the srt is faster if we're all adults and put away our personal preferences.

and now the new Cobalt is the king in a straight line, AND in turns.

(the MS3 is the better "vehicle", which is good, you know we drive these things on the street!)

cobalt ss is actually slower than the speed3. c&d got a best of 14.2@102. speed3 got a best of 14@103. if your talkin straight line excelleration the new wrx owns all plain and simple

[DaleNixon]

I need to rent an SRT 4 and dyno the shit out of it!

[chrisp]

Just go rent an SRT4 from enterprize if you really wanna drive it......sheesh.

pretty sure 05 was the last year they made the srt4, and seeing as how they are always blowing up their probably arent any left for rentals.(cool)

[lynnriderm6]

Ya 05 was the last year they made the neon srt4s but they make caliber 1s now i think theyre not as fast...280hp 260trq....but the srt-4 neon engine just doesnt blow up....stock numbers for the srt4 neon is 230hp 250trq at about 2800 2900 pounds=dont race 1 on the highway unless you feel like getting pulld by a neon..ive seen my friends srt4 just with a short ram intake and a agp wastegate beat a stage 2 sti..i mean for how much theyr worth why not get a fwd neon that beats evos sti's and other cars on the highway srt-4=HIGHWAY MONSTER

[chrisp]

Ya 05 was the last year they made the neon srt4s but they make caliber 1s now i think theyre not as fast...280hp 260trq....but the srt-4 neon engine just doesnt blow up....stock numbers for the srt4 neon is 230hp 250trq at about 2800 2900 pounds=dont race 1 on the highway unless you feel like getting pulld by a neon..ive seen my friends srt4 just with a short ram intake and a agp wastegate beat a stage 2 sti..i mean for how much theyr worth why not get a fwd neon that beats evos sti's and other cars on the highway srt-4=HIGHWAY MONSTER

I have already raced 2 neons on the highway, niether of them being stock and I am 2-0. I know they are fast but they arent as quick as you think. youtube has a few videos of stage 2 stis beating stage 2 srt4s

[eg6motion]

I too have encountered a couple srt-4's. They are quick, but the ms3 has been slightly quicker in both cases...and I only have a CAI. No idea what they had but not likely stock as both had different wheels, suspension etc. I also test drove one prior to the ms3 and it felt nothing like the ms3 (probably because the ms3 has a peaky-turbo).

[240ka]

Ya 05 was the last year they made the neon srt4s but they make caliber 1s now i think theyre not as fast...280hp 260trq....but the srt-4 neon engine just doesnt blow up....stock numbers for the srt4 neon is 230hp 250trq at about 2800 2900 pounds=dont race 1 on the highway unless you feel like getting pulld by a neon..ive seen my friends srt4 just with a short ram intake and a agp wastegate beat a stage 2 sti..i mean for how much theyr worth why not get a fwd neon that beats evos sti's and other cars on the highway srt-4=HIGHWAY MONSTER

yep, there are three guys my cousin is friends with that have srt4s pushing over 400hp and havent blown yet

[lynnriderm6]

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my gf srt-4 bone stock
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i dnt hate ms3's sooo
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this last race is my friend he had snow tires running at the track lol
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[lynnriderm6]

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not sure if you can even put that much hp on a speed3 yet
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this just shows how easy it is to upgrade these things...
but not going to lie i love ms3's there top 3 fav cars

[oaklandopen]

that last vid is f'ing crazy!!!

[lynnriderm6]

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crazyyyyyyyyyyyyy ok no more vids

[Moxhair]

I think its funny when you see topics like this on a site and it doesn't matter what car you're comparing the topic turns ignorant and childish.

I owned a Stage 3R, 11second, daily driven, SRT-4 Neon before I bought my MS3. I traded that car in not because of reliability issues or anything like that. The car ran very strong and was still daily drivable. I traded it in because I'm more of a Road Racer and Autocrosser and found Drag racing incredibly boring. The MS3 is much more comfortable and I can go from the street to the track and hang near the top of the DSP class. My SRT-4 handled like dogshit even with loads of aftermarket parts thrown at it.

Comparing the 2 is like comparing apples to oranges. The Neon was much more RAW and you had to be extremely alert at all times driving it, even it stock form. The MS3 is a better handling and better put together car.

Stock to Stock, in a drag race from a dig it would come down to the Driver. PERIOD. I ran a 13.9 in my SRT-4 in stock form. I've read and seen MS3s running around that time. Its a DRIVER'S RACE. plain and Simple. Let it Die and Let the Hate end.

The Neon is what it is. A cheap, reliable, Raw vehicle that served a purpose. The MS3 is a better car overall, there's no Model of Neon that could do what the MS3 does on a road course or Autocross in Stock form. But please leave the childish remarks and ignorant statements to the people who don't know crap about cars.

[chrisp]

I think its funny when you see topics like this on a site and it doesn't matter what car you're comparing the topic turns ignorant and childish.
But please leave the childish remarks and ignorant statements to the people who don't know crap about cars.

examples??

[Moxhair]

(jerkit)too bad the srt4 is gay...

Just go rent an SRT4 from enterprize if you really wanna drive it......sheesh.

just picked out a couple quick ones.

[LASERBLUE135]

^^^^^ so having owned both cars, which is faster?

[Protege_MP3_506]

I heard the new turbo cobalt ss is supposed to be the front wheel drive car to beat. I think it was 280 hp now instead of 230.

[LASERBLUE135]

I heard the new turbo cobalt ss is supposed to be the front wheel drive car to beat. I think it was 280 hp now instead of 230.

the new cobalt is fast for sure, its got a 2.0 turbo with 260 hp and killed a bunch of fast cars in a road course test (sti, evo mr, bmw tt 3 series, ms3, elise sc, etc). Its got the same curse as the srt4 tho, its insanely fast, but crappy/cheap looking. But yah, its the new one to beat (fasted fwd production car). I'd like to see it go head to head with the srt acr though.

[Donas64]

I think its funny when you see topics like this on a site and it doesn't matter what car you're comparing the topic turns ignorant and childish.

I owned a Stage 3R, 11second, daily driven, SRT-4 Neon before I bought my MS3. I traded that car in not because of reliability issues or anything like that. The car ran very strong and was still daily drivable. I traded it in because I'm more of a Road Racer and Autocrosser and found Drag racing incredibly boring. The MS3 is much more comfortable and I can go from the street to the track and hang near the top of the DSP class. My SRT-4 handled like dogshit even with loads of aftermarket parts thrown at it.

Comparing the 2 is like comparing apples to oranges. The Neon was much more RAW and you had to be extremely alert at all times driving it, even it stock form. The MS3 is a better handling and better put together car.

Stock to Stock, in a drag race from a dig it would come down to the Driver. PERIOD. I ran a 13.9 in my SRT-4 in stock form. I've read and seen MS3s running around that time. Its a DRIVER'S RACE. plain and Simple. Let it Die and Let the Hate end.

The Neon is what it is. A cheap, reliable, Raw vehicle that served a purpose. The MS3 is a better car overall, there's no Model of Neon that could do what the MS3 does on a road course or Autocross in Stock form. But please leave the childish remarks and ignorant statements to the people who don't know crap about cars.


(iagree)
Thank you for the intelligent, honest, well thought out post.

[intak3_bLkMs3]

nobody raged like i thought they would. yeah i would think if u pulled up to a stock srt4 on the road ur gonna smoke it. my reasoning behind this is there going to be a teen boy racer who knows absolutely nothing about cars but wanted to look cool. however you pull up to a serious srt4 its gonna be all down to who has spent more in aftermarket and who is a better driver. srt4 is RAW sexy power but every other aspect pretty much blows. but hey there exhaust is sexy as fux

[lynnriderm6]

i LOVE both cars dont get me wrong if you just want somthing thats straight up built just to race and thats it srt4 is the way to go, ive been in 5-6 dif srt4 and i love em puts you back in the seat and ovb there not the best looking cars but throw some eyelids andd they look dirty lol but ya i have a friend who has the 05 black acr with silver stripes that runs lik high 13s with like snow tires lol

[clos561]

exactly what the title says.

1/4= drivers race
roll = ms3 ftw

6 speed vs srt 5 speed, has its advantages for doing rolls but involves alot of shifting in 1/4.

[Donas64]

Despite their crappy interiors, I love Neon SRT-4's. If I could find a clean example cheap today, I don't know that I still would not buy one. Just something about them. It still wins my award for most awesome looking stock FMIC! What was dodge thinking with the Caliber?

Still though, I'm waiting for a next gen restyled cobalt SS. If they fix the interior and sharpen up all the looks, it will have all the pros of the MS3, with a HUGE aftermarket!

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f363/IrishCon/parkinggarage2-1.jpg

http://media.motortopia.com/files/1672/vehicles/45165be197aba/new3.jpg

http://www.sellitnowmotors.com/classifieds/user_images/cars/cars.3209.1.jpg

[Moxhair]

^^^^^ so having owned both cars, which is faster?

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e172/moxhair4/DSCF0054-1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e172/moxhair4/DSC00073.jpg

Stock to Stock
Drag = Even
Roll = Even
Road Course/Autocross = MS3

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e172/moxhair4/P9150045.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e172/moxhair4/DSC00039.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e172/moxhair4/DSC00482.jpg

Modified
Drag = My SRT ran 11s
Roll = My SRT did 0-100 in under 10 seconds
Road Course/Autocross = MS3
:)

Two very Different Cars, that served 2 very different purposes.

[intak3_bLkMs3]

im 18... love my ms3 to death... however there are many times ive considered selling it for an nsrt4. i work in sales and make commision with the market the way it is it almost bores me cause i can never afford any aftermarket parts thats my main reasoning behind considering an srt4 its cheaper ^^ however i've never pulled the trigger cause im scared ill be fixing it every weekend and i dont know enough about cars to pull that off lol

[Moxhair]

however i've never pulled the trigger cause im scared ill be fixing it every weekend and i dont know enough about cars to pull that off lol

The only thing to break on my SRT was the cam position sensor. Anything else was my fault or a from a pipe blowing off at 23psi.

Any car you intend to modify is going to take time to fix because something will break or come apart.

[skylar2ups]

(jerkit)too bad the srt4 is gay...
Do you know how many gay men are on this forum? And that you just made yourself look like an ass?

As for the cars they are both fast and fun to drive, I would get the Mazda. Stock for Stock.

[Donas64]

Do you know how many gay men are on this forum? And that you just made yourself look like an ass?

As for the cars they are both fast and fun to drive, I would get the Mazda. Stock for Stock.

not to take this thread to a place it doesn't need to go. While I agree that that term should not be used in a derogatory way, as a Christian, I see people use g-damn and jc constantly on the forums all the time.

Just saying I hope we are as sensitive to those things as using the word gay.

but I do agree with you. Stock for stock, I take the MS3 every time.....unless the SRT-4 can be had for like 12k used.

[lynnriderm6]

Ya my gf bought hers for just shy of 10k with 55k on it bone stock and had a trap speed of 102.96 which is crazy

[chrisp]

But yah, its the new one to beat (fasted fwd production car).


how is it the fastest fwd production car when the speed3 is faster by 2 tenths?

[shane02pro5]

The big thing here is what % of SRT's are actually stock and MS3's for that matter??

Point being...
If you are looking that far into a vehicle to see it traps 2mph more or less or has 5whp more than another vehicle, you're going to probably mod the shit out of it anyway to be faster/handle better!

[18psiWhiteMS3]

i startd this thred. have not come on in a day or 2 and holy crap i have 70 replys. lol I have owned both myself as i said in the begining. i love them both but my ms3 handles so much better and honestly think it feels just as fast if not faster. But my 2007 ZX10R puts everything i ever owned to shame

[oaklandopen]

i startd this thred. have not come on in a day or 2 and holy crap i have 70 replys. lol I have owned both myself as i said in the begining. i love them both but my ms3 handles so much better and honestly think it feels just as fast if not faster. But my 2007 ZX10R puts everything i ever owned to shame

+1...used to have a gsxr600. not the biggest engine but it beats everything with 4 wheels or more on the road nonetheless.

but having gotten rid of the bike for the ms3, no regrets

[Yamaha72]

I watched a Cobalt SS/TC run a 13.4 @ 106 with just poly engine and trans mounts, HP Tuners, and a shifter. The guy was on his first passes in a FWD coming from a 95 Z28. Those things have set course records in FWD autoxing as well. I just don't understand why they had to put those ugly gray and black seats in when they had a nice looking black one last year.
I MS3 is a much more refined, quality built, and user friendly car than the SRT4. New vs new, to me, there is no contest. I would buy the MS3 if they were both on the market at the same time.

Do you know that the new Cobalt SS/TC has a launch control option/ no-lift shifting (power shifting) pre-programmed into the ECU..? Think about it logically, The Cobalt Hahn built had a hahn racecraft OBDII Tuner, hahn Catback Exhaust, an engine mount and a STS yielding a 13.2... If we could have our mazda's with a cobb tuner, mid-pipe, engine mount and maybe just even base bushings, with a 2-step or WOT box and power shift it this would be close.. The cars are set up differently, with different aspects and points of view... Cobalt seems like it is marketed to the younger crowd as a cheap, go-fast, throw away; thats just me. The 3 seems more refined and attention has been more focused upon detail and longevity, not to mention the superior interior... Just My .02.

[RC08MS3]

Do you know that the new Cobalt SS/TC has a launch control option/ no-lift shifting (power shifting) pre-programmed into the ECU..? Think about it logically, The Cobalt Hahn built had a hahn racecraft OBDII Tuner, hahn Catback Exhaust, an engine mount and a STS yielding a 13.2... If we could have our mazda's with a cobb tuner, mid-pipe, engine mount and maybe just even base bushings, with a 2-step or WOT box and power shift it this would be close.. The cars are set up differently, with different aspects and points of view... Cobalt seems like it is marketed to the younger crowd as a cheap, go-fast, throw away; thats just me. The 3 seems more refined and attention has been more focused upon detail and longevity, not to mention the superior interior... Just My .02.

Im 18, and i think any Cobalt is a POS, and ugly as crap. im very content with the MS3. i came from a bolt on 2000 mustang GT, so the torque is something i miss, but with mods im sure i can get it back.

[aaronc7]

V T A k

P W N S

A L L

[Circle9]

which brings this video to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojB7KkaR03I

[18psiWhiteMS3]

which brings this video to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojB7KkaR03I

Bro, Thank you. that was so fucking mustang hilarious!! This is a must watch

[MSLou]

srt4s are slow ive raced 2. the first one had intake fmic and exhaust which i killed by like 2 cars the 2nd srt i raced even though im not sure on the mods but im pretty sure he was running some sort of upgraded turbo i beat him by about a nose length and i raced both cars numerous time from a roll and a launch same results

[Moxhair]

Theres no way your near stock MS3 beat SRT-4s with modifications unless they were pulling timing from running too much boost with the Stock PCM or they were completely shitty drivers.

We've already made the point that the SRT-4 Neon and the MS3 run very similar times in stock form and its a driver's race.

[mr_mazda329]

Moxhair, love the sig:
Road Racing > Autocross > Spirited Driving > Sitting in Traffic > Mowing Lawns > Drag Racing

[18psiWhiteMS3]

I love the Neon SRT4. regret selling it but now that i have my MS3 i dont regret it at all. i love the handlin, the interiour, the engine and all. the Ms3 is awsom

[Fenrir]

MS3 doesn't fall apart when you turn, so it's faster. :)

[skylar2ups]

^^^ Blahahahaha!

[Jarod7920]

They are very comparable stock. The Neon is ok i mean there are trade offs for both. The skittle you cant get power windows in the rear but you can get a sunroof and heated mirrors. The MS3 power windows in rear no heated mirros or moon roof(which personally pisses me the fuck off). I think the MS3 responds better to mods though.

[lil_red_wagon]

i can't believe that we are still on this topic after three weeks.

[skylar2ups]

They are very comparable stock. The Neon is ok i mean there are trade offs for both. The skittle you cant get power windows in the rear but you can get a sunroof and heated mirrors. The MS3 power windows in rear no heated mirros or moon roof(which personally pisses me the fuck off). I think the MS3 responds better to mods though.
There are some MS3's that have sunroofs; and all Mazda3's can have heated mirrows, but you have to put them in yourself. It's pretty easy and there is a 'how to' on here showing it. I believe they stopped having a sunroof in the MS3 in 2009.

***My mistake the sunroof is aftermarket in the 3's I've seen.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

i can't believe that we are still on this topic after three weeks.

I cant believe i started a thred that actually got more then 2 replys

[CnoTataymo]

A thread comparing the MS3 to any car will have more then 1 person replying back.

[Moxhair]

Moxhair, love the sig:
Road Racing > Autocross > Spirited Driving > Sitting in Traffic > Mowing Lawns > Drag Racing

Thank-you. :)

[chrisp]

There are some MS3's that have sunroofs; and all Mazda3's can have heated mirrows, but you have to put them in yourself. It's pretty easy and there is a 'how to' on here showing it. I believe they stopped having a sunroof in the MS3 in 2009.

You cant get a sunroof from the factory. My brother in law is on this site and has an 07 speed3, and they said it's not an option because of the braces that go accross the roof. I guess they are needed because of the large amount of tourque

[skylar2ups]

I've just seen so many with a sunroof that I thought it was factory. My mistake.

[MSLou]

Theres no way your near stock MS3 beat SRT-4s with modifications unless they were pulling timing from running too much boost with the Stock PCM or they were completely shitty drivers.

We've already made the point that the SRT-4 Neon and the MS3 run very similar times in stock form and its a driver's race.all i know is i havnt come across any srt thats given me any trouble

[squidmotion]

is my _________ faster that a ___________...?

the age old question!

back when i had my parents '70 SS nova (350, 4spd, posi, dark green, all factory on the outside)... there were a lot of cars faster than mine.... i just lived with it... sure, i did a few mods to make the car faster, but nothing too extreme... got it to run a 13.00 in street trim, and into the 12s with slicks, and better gas and timing....

it kind of goes like this...

get beat by someone... either learn to drive better, or upgrade your car.

if you can live with getting beat sometimes, or don't race, and just like the way the car drives, no problem! drive and be happy...

if you want to go faster, surprise more people, enjoy modding, can't stand the idea of getting beat (my dad has this version of the sickness), like to see what you can wring out of one, i say go for it!!! drive and be happy....


:)

[chrisp]

is my _________ faster that a ___________...?

the age old question!

back when i had my parents '70 SS nova (350, 4spd, posi, dark green, all factory on the outside)... there were a lot of cars faster than mine.... i just lived with it... sure, i did a few mods to make the car faster, but nothing too extreme... got it to run a 13.00 in street trim, and into the 12s with slicks, and better gas and timing....

it kind of goes like this...

get beat by someone... either learn to drive better, or upgrade your car.

if you can live with getting beat sometimes, or don't race, and just like the way the car drives, no problem! drive and be happy...

if you want to go faster, surprise more people, enjoy modding, can't stand the idea of getting beat (my dad has this version of the sickness), like to see what you can wring out of one, i say go for it!!! drive and be happy....


:)

thats a great car! I have owned 2 chevelles and a 72 camaro as well. I love the classic chevys!

[Jarod7920]

Ya i wish that i could have gotten a sun roof...that is the one thing i miss the most from my old car. I know the heated mirror thing can be done but it just sucks they arent there already and arent an option. It would be nice if it came with heated leather seats too. But wish in one and shit in the other i suppose.

[Moxhair]

all i know is i havnt come across any srt thats given me any trouble

My old SRT and about 10 others in this town would hand you your ass.

[chrisp]

My old SRT and about 10 others in this town would hand you your ass.

nobody in town could afford a nice car? jk couldnt resist

[18psiWhiteMS3]

My old SRT and about 10 others in this town would hand you your ass.

I know my old SRt4 put many ss camaros to shame. dynoed 312 wheel hp

[latina4sho77]

MS3 is faster... my boyfriends brother had a srt4 and it was stock and i raced him stock and beat him all the times i raced him... but srt4s have potential...

[Moxhair]

MS3 is faster... my boyfriends brother had a srt4 and it was stock and i raced him stock and beat him all the times i raced him... but srt4s have potential...

You beat the driver


nobody in town could afford a nice car? jk couldnt resist

There's only about 12 SRT-4s in this town. I actually think there are more Ferrari's and Lambos driving around than people with Turbo Sport Compacts. Damn Retirement/Tourist town.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

I think mazdaspeed3 sounds cooler then srt4...... the name, not the exhaust note

[skylar2ups]

My name is Skylar Ross Toups... SRT. SHIT.

[rayek]

I just got my 09 MS3 yesterday, I had a silver 04 SRT-4 HEAVILY modded, then went to a 07 Cobalt ss/sc moderately modded and now this car, my SRT-4 was WAAAAAY faster than this MS3 but the aftermarket is ridiculous for that car, getting 300whp is cheap and easy, I made it over that with no problems at all.
I don't understand what all this "stock vs. stock" talk is about because in my years of going to meets the only stock SRT's I ever saw was the Caliber, seriously a good aftermarket wastegate was cheap and upped the power on its own, no-one keeps those cars stock.

Here is the major differences I see, and several others have already pointed these out:
SRT is raw, mean and does not want you to be comfortable, it kicks your ass because it knows you like the abuse, you are after all in a powerful neon, it turns like a mac truck though, U-turns are near impossible outside of 4 lane roads and it is not what you would call comfortable especially if you have any kind of sizable stomach, basically it is fun beast.
MS3 is quick, lets you know it has the power without letting you forget its comfortable, going from SRT seats to Cobalt seats then sitting in a MS3 I felt like I went from a crooked wooden rocking chair to a lazy boy and turning is magnificent, I am not fighting the clutch, steering wheel and pushing into the bolstering, instead I am gliding into and out of the turn confidently and I havent even hit the full turn radius of the steering wheel, basically a comfortable fun car.

I test drove the Cobalt ss/tc and it is an insane car and people are hitting great numbers with it but I couldn't take the 2 doors anymore and the blunt look of it.

I cannot wait for the aftermarket to seriously kick in for MS3 and see what these cars will really do once you can go stage for stage with an SRT.

[Alexsered]

the neon SRT4 is a fast car, but I'm not sure why they wanted to keep it so raw, if they could have refined it more, I think it would have been more appealing. The MS3 is a good mix of rawness and being refined. It has a ton of tq, but is still comfortable. In a straight line, it would be very close, but on a road course, I haven't seen any srt-4 that could really hang with the ms3.

Now about the caliber srt-4, I'm so confused as to what dodge was trying to do here? It's like a baby Jeep srt-8. High center of gravity FTL!

[rayek]

the neon SRT4 is a fast car, but I'm not sure why they wanted to keep it so raw, if they could have refined it more, I think it would have been more appealing. The MS3 is a good mix of rawness and being refined. It has a ton of tq, but is still comfortable. In a straight line, it would be very close, but on a road course, I haven't seen any srt-4 that could really hang with the ms3.

Now about the caliber srt-4, I'm so confused as to what dodge was trying to do here? It's like a baby Jeep srt-8. High center of gravity FTL!

They kept the car basic because the SRT team was basically making a point, they managed to pack a LOT of HP into a reliable engine but cut a lot of comfort features of the car to save money, you can push almost 400hp on that engine without replacing stock internals, if you look at the original advertising for the car it was all about the speed, they didn't care about much else, 03's didn't even have LSD, they had to tack that on as standard for 04 and 05 because its hard to have that much power without it.

The MS3 is definetly targeted more at giving the FEEL of SRT power with incredible refinement, they push the torque at lower RPM's because that makes a car feel powerful, honestly, stock for stock MS3 would probably lose by half a car length on the 1/4 assuming equally skilled drivers but most SRTs on the road today will take a MS3 in a straight line because of mods, on a road course I very much doubt the MS3 would lose even to a moderately modded SRT, ACR editions might be able to hang because they could corner better but the MS3 is still better in turns.

I am one of the rare people who actually likes the CSRT, in fact if I could have gotten as good a deal as I did on the MS3 I would be on a different forum today but it does have far too high a center of gravity so the car ends up with the same issues as the NSRT in that it can be modded well and is good in a straight line but its not so hot in corners.

Right now there are 2 issues the MS3 has to overcome and I can bet that once those are fixed or worked around the MS3 will have little trouble being modded the way the SRT is, first is getting rid of computer controlled limitations of boost, airflow and throwing codes with heavy mods and second is figuring out what kills the engine (though it really seems to be the throttle plate closing too early), once those are figured out the aftermarket will explode for this car.

[Alexsered]

They kept the car basic because the SRT team was basically making a point, they managed to pack a LOT of HP into a reliable engine but cut a lot of comfort features of the car to save money, you can push almost 400hp on that engine without replacing stock internals, if you look at the original advertising for the car it was all about the speed, they didn't care about much else, 03's didn't even have LSD, they had to tack that on as standard for 04 and 05 because its hard to have that much power without it.

The MS3 is definetly targeted more at giving the FEEL of SRT power with incredible refinement, they push the torque at lower RPM's because that makes a car feel powerful, honestly, stock for stock MS3 would probably lose by half a car length on the 1/4 assuming equally skilled drivers but most SRTs on the road today will take a MS3 in a straight line because of mods, on a road course I very much doubt the MS3 would lose even to a moderately modded SRT, ACR editions might be able to hang because they could corner better but the MS3 is still better in turns.

I am one of the rare people who actually likes the CSRT, in fact if I could have gotten as good a deal as I did on the MS3 I would be on a different forum today but it does have far too high a center of gravity so the car ends up with the same issues as the NSRT in that it can be modded well and is good in a straight line but its not so hot in corners.

Right now there are 2 issues the MS3 has to overcome and I can bet that once those are fixed or worked around the MS3 will have little trouble being modded the way the SRT is, first is getting rid of computer controlled limitations of boost, airflow and throwing codes with heavy mods and second is figuring out what kills the engine (though it really seems to be the throttle plate closing too early), once those are figured out the aftermarket will explode for this car.

I don't think the aftermarket will explode for the speed3, mazda is done with it in 2009. But that's okay, we already have alot of parts for the speed3, and most people that own the speed3 that are willing to mod will only need those bolt-ons and a slight tune. I see alot of modded srt4's, but a majority of them are the same as the speed3's, some bolt-ons and a slight tune. The few that I have seen that have went over 350whp end up lasting just as long as the speed3's before they either need new turbos or a rebuild.

How much was the srt4 when it came out? I could be wrong, but I thought I remember it being around $22k? I think I would have still paid the little extra for the speed3 and got the better refinement because like the mojority of people, we are not going to be building 400hp monstors.

[RC08MS3]

I don't think the aftermarket will explode for the speed3, mazda is done with it in 2009. But that's okay, we already have alot of parts for the speed3, and most people that own the speed3 that are willing to mod will only need those bolt-ons and a slight tune. I see alot of modded srt4's, but a majority of them are the same as the speed3's, some bolt-ons and a slight tune. The few that I have seen that have went over 350whp end up lasting just as long as the speed3's before they either need new turbos or a rebuild.

How much was the srt4 when it came out? I could be wrong, but I thought I remember it being around $22k? I think I would have still paid the little extra for the speed3 and got the better refinement because like the mojority of people, we are not going to be building 400hp monstors.

I think the aftermarket for the MS3 has a decent size already, coming from a mustang its not as big but it has alot to choose from. They are continuing the MS3 in 2010, but wither the current aftermarket parts will work is the big question.

[rayek]

the SRT had a 3 year production run and MANY of the mods out now did not appear until the production had ended, people with turbo cars tend to spend a large amount of money for a long time getting to that next level of speed so companies are willing to spend the R&D developing new products well past the end of a production line, the NSRT didn't have the stage 3 until near the end or maybe a little after the line had ended, 4 years later the SRT team still has regular chats with the community and is still researching new mods though at a greatly diminished pace. All this with a car that truly ENDED, there wasn't another SRT-4 model for 3 years after that.
The MS3 isn't ending it is merely switching to a new generation, sure some stuff will change but that may well bring in new vendors, many of the mods start out with someone in the community trying something new and a vendor deciding to run with the idea and investing money in creating the mod for production, so far the biggest limitation seems to be the motor, but who knows what some skilled garage mechanic is going to create in the next year or so.
Many people will not start seriously modding until their warranty expires, especially on a first generation model, take the eclipse gs-t's and gsx's, there was a major lag between those cars hitting the market and the point where tons of mods started to appear and that was mostly due to people waiting the warranties out, once they expire people start pouring money into their cars because they know what the car is about at that point and have a lot less to lose.

The main path SRT owners follow, at least in my neck of the woods, is simple, stage 1 ECU, AGP wastegate, CAI, TBE and hardpipes with BOV, in this process you end up removing almost all the stock vacuum lines from the solenoid, running wastegate controlled boost at around 18psi running right at 300hp for about $2k or less if you buy used or e-bay, I hit this level in a month of owning the car for around $900 due to lucky finds. Where I am at I wasn't even close to being the most powerful SRT around by a long shot, in fact I was about second to last place in the group of 20 cars rolling around the northern VA/DC area. You could hit 350whp on the stock motor and run it reliably with no problems at all, I met a few at the 400 mark with no problems too but in that range you REALLY have to take care of the car and know what you are doing.

I believe the SRT was around 21k-22k new.

I wouldn't discount seeing MS3 with close to 400hp in a few years, in fact the very day I hit the 36k mark and my bumper to bumper expires I will be doing everything in my power to get back to the magic 350 number.

PS, just noticed you are in the DC area too, I am sure you have seen some of the absolute monsters rolling around here, most of those guys meet up on a regular basis and work on each others cars, I am going to have a couple of them start looking at the MS3 and see what can be done that isn't already available, nothing like having everything custom fabricated so nothing can be easily replaced.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

i think a 1995 honda civic dx with a cat back exhaust is faster then an srt4

[GoFast]

i think a 1995 honda civic dx with a cat back exhaust is faster then an srt4

http://failsalon.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/zizou-headbutt-fail.jpg

[gtlaw]

everytime I see this thread I think who gives a shit

[GoFast]

everyone who doesnt not care

[rayek]

well obviously someone cares or these types of threads would not exist, a lot of people want to hear that their car is faster than XXX car, makes them feel better about their purchase. Unfortunately a lot of those people end up being the ones that have to insult every other car out there, SRT is a good car for what it is, MS3 is a good car for what it is, both have problems, both have strengths, that goes for every single other comparison you can imagine, MS 3 is better in almost every way than an '89 escort GT but the Escort you can beat the hell out of and feel no guilt because parts cost $5 a piece and it gets amazing gas mileage and it has cast iron body structure, I mud bogged one and scraped boulders with no damage, but they are completely different cars.
You end up being better off comparing your MS3 to anothers MS3.

[lil_red_wagon]

everyone who doesnt not care

i don't.

also, i don't understand why you all are comparing your NEW model ms3 with the OLD model srt.

[GoFast]

i don't.

also, i don't understand why you all are comparing your NEW model ms3 with the OLD model srt.

you dont what? care or not care?

the same reason that MS3 owners want to compare their cars to the STI. it is a benchmark in performance that everyone hopes to be as good as or better than.

[oaklandopen]

i believe it was "i don't not care" which would be a double negative, which would mean he cares

i compare my ms3 to a corvette, and i justify mine being better cuz it has room for 3 more butts and lower insurance rates

[rayek]

I compare my MS3 to a 1999 orange Lamborghini Diablo GT and cry myself to sleep at night.

[lil_red_wagon]

i believe it was "i don't not care" which would be a double negative, which would mean he cares

i compare my ms3 to a corvette, and i justify mine being better cuz it has room for 3 more butts and lower insurance rates

i do not care, smart guy.

all that i can say about the corvette comparison is to think about it this way; base trim for each -- naturally aspirated 2.3L mazda3 with manual tranny, naturally aspirated LS2 (6.0L) corvette with a manual tranny. mid-level trims -- naturally aspirated 2.3L mazda3 with auto and lots of goodies, naturally aspirated 7.0L corvette with manual tranny and some extras. top-end trim levels -- MS3 GT with forced induction 2.3L and manual tranny (mazdaspeed goodies included), forced induction 6.2L ZR1 with a manual tranny and all of the ZR1 goodies.

so, apples to apples, you would be comparing the MS3 GT to the ZR1. the ZR1 is the same car that stomped the crap out of the new GTR, so make your comparisons if you will.

[oaklandopen]

i do not care, smart guy.

all that i can say about the corvette comparison is to think about it this way; base trim for each -- naturally aspirated 2.3L mazda3 with manual tranny, naturally aspirated LS2 (6.0L) corvette with a manual tranny. mid-level trims -- naturally aspirated 2.3L mazda3 with auto and lots of goodies, naturally aspirated 7.0L corvette with manual tranny and some extras. top-end trim levels -- MS3 GT with forced induction 2.3L and manual tranny (mazdaspeed goodies included), forced induction 6.2L ZR1 with a manual tranny and all of the ZR1 goodies.

so, apples to apples, you would be comparing the MS3 GT to the ZR1. the ZR1 is the same car that stomped the crap out of the new GTR, so make your comparisons if you will.

so im not allowed to compare any 2 vehicles according to seating capacity, it has to be on engine size and performance? oh and the performance comparison on the 2 cars included another car outside the comparison itself (your gtr reference), even though the gtr STILL has backseats.

why not just add bikes to the comparison. low-ball 2.0L mazda3 and the gsx-r600. so then the ms3 gt can be compared to the hayabusa?

someone already called me out on this thread for no reason before, and it happened again, and a mod no less so i must be F'ing up somehow

[18psiWhiteMS3]

i don't.

also, i don't understand why you all are comparing your NEW model ms3 with the OLD model srt.

Well being that i started this thred i can tell u why we are comparing new ms3 to old srt. Its caused i owned both, a 2004 SRT4 and a 2009 MS3. I was simply curious cause from driving i honestly could not tell witch one was faster so i fugued u guys would have raced one to give me a better answer LOL. i never though i would have had over 100 replys

[skylar2ups]

so im not allowed to compare any 2 vehicles according to seating capacity, it has to be on engine size and performance? oh and the performance comparison on the 2 cars included another car outside the comparison itself (your gtr reference), even though the gtr STILL has backseats.

why not just add bikes to the comparison. low-ball 2.0L mazda3 and the gsx-r600. so then the ms3 gt can be compared to the hayabusa?

someone already called me out on this thread for no reason before, and it happened again, and a mod no less so i must be F'ing up somehow
Um... yeah your right he is a mod and he did get snappy at you for no reason... and he did say 'I don't' to "everyone who doesnt not care" which would make it... 'I don't not care' so you were right there too!

[lil_red_wagon]

so im not allowed to compare any 2 vehicles according to seating capacity, it has to be on engine size and performance? oh and the performance comparison on the 2 cars included another car outside the comparison itself (your gtr reference), even though the gtr STILL has backseats.

why not just add bikes to the comparison. low-ball 2.0L mazda3 and the gsx-r600. so then the ms3 gt can be compared to the hayabusa?

someone already called me out on this thread for no reason before, and it happened again, and a mod no less so i must be F'ing up somehow

if we are comparing things on seating capacity, i will take a school bus. now i can already see what you are thinking; the school bus has no capacity for performance. that isn't even comparing apples to oranges. now you understand where i am coming from. the MS3 does perform and is a hot hatch. the point i am trying to make is that it, being an econo-box turned forced induction, isn't in the same class as a car that is built as a sports car and turned supercar.

[lil_red_wagon]

(your gtr reference)

as for the GTR reference, they are both considered supercars (ZR1 and GTR)

[oaklandopen]

if we are comparing things on seating capacity, i will take a school bus. now i can already see what you are thinking; the school bus has no capacity for performance. that isn't even comparing apples to oranges. now you understand where i am coming from. the MS3 does perform and is a hot hatch. the point i am trying to make is that it, being an econo-box turned forced induction, isn't in the same class as a car that is built as a sports car and turned supercar.

but we are not comparing things. I was comparing something to justify why i thought one car was better than another. it was a general statement, and for me comparing practicality is more important than performance. so my ms3 vs vette thingy was a personal opinion


i believe it was "i don't not care" which would be a double negative, which would mean he cares

i compare my ms3 to a corvette, and i justify mine being better cuz it has room for 3 more butts and lower insurance rates

maybe i should start an absurd thread (cuz this one really isnt' in my opinion) that compares the ms3 to whatever...yea definitly doing it

[lil_red_wagon]

Um... yeah your right he is a mod and he did get snappy at you for no reason... and he did say 'I don't' to "everyone who doesnt not care" which would make it... 'I don't not care' so you were right there too!

i guess you all can read tone of voice in a post. you are all really talented. the first group of people ever to be able to read tone of voice in arial font. i am a smart-ass, if no one has noticed in the past. it doesn't mean that i am being disrespectful, it only means that i am saying something. almost everything that i say has some sarcastic statement in it.

just because i am a mod, it doesn't mean that i can't be a smart-ass.

[18psiWhiteMS3]

Whats faster... 2 people on a big horse or 1 person on a little horse?

[GoFast]

whats faster...a rabbit on weed or a turtle on speed?

[18psiWhiteMS3]

whats faster...a rabbit on weed or a turtle on speed?

Thats a fricken good one. You make me laugh. Definitly a turtle on speed is faster!! A rabbit on weed would be running into things cause he is so messed up so Its clear the Turtle is the Champ

[Alexsered]

why do so many people have an issue with comparing cars? Isn't that what magazines do all the time? So we campared a mazdaspeed3 to an SRT4, who cares, this is a car forum right?

Ever since cars have been made, there has been comparisons and all the people that say these kind of threads are retarded need to get their panties out of a bunch.

[oaklandopen]

Thats a fricken good one. You make me laugh. Definitly a turtle on speed is faster!! A rabbit on weed would be running into things cause he is so messed up so Its clear the Turtle is the Champ

the rabbit on weed wouldn't be racing the turtle at all. it would be sitting, leaning against a tree laughing and eating doritos

[18psiWhiteMS3]

the rabbit on weed wouldn't be racing the turtle at all. it would be sitting, leaning against a tree laughing and eating doritos

Ohh, true

[GoFast]

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/football/bob_blog/winner.jpg


oakland!!

[skylar2ups]

i guess you all can read tone of voice in a post. you are all really talented. the first group of people ever to be able to read tone of voice in arial font. i am a smart-ass, if no one has noticed in the past. it doesn't mean that i am being disrespectful, it only means that i am saying something. almost everything that i say has some sarcastic statement in it.

just because i am a mod, it doesn't mean that i can't be a smart-ass.
I'm SOOOOO sorry it will NEVER happen again! (kissass)

[240ka]

i do not care, smart guy.

all that i can say about the corvette comparison is to think about it this way; base trim for each -- naturally aspirated 2.3L mazda3 with manual tranny, naturally aspirated LS2 (6.0L) corvette with a manual tranny. mid-level trims -- naturally aspirated 2.3L mazda3 with auto and lots of goodies, naturally aspirated 7.0L corvette with manual tranny and some extras. top-end trim levels -- MS3 GT with forced induction 2.3L and manual tranny (mazdaspeed goodies included), forced induction 6.2L ZR1 with a manual tranny and all of the ZR1 goodies.

so, apples to apples, you would be comparing the MS3 GT to the ZR1. the ZR1 is the same car that stomped the crap out of the new GTR, so make your comparisons if you will.


the ZR-1 and GT-R arent competitors.

the GT-R and Z06 are. the ZR-1 and Spec V/V Spec GT-R thats coming out will be competitors

[18psiWhiteMS3]

The rabbit and the horse are not competitors
but the turtle on speed and the rabbit on weed are!