car goes boom(pics)

[blackmica08]

well what can i said my beloved POS mazdaspeed3 went boom boom boom, it happened saturday afternoon me and the wife getting out of massage envy which is 4 blocks from house we go through a stop sign nothing happens, next a four way stop, 1st gear all good as i engaged 2nd gear not even close to 3500 rpm we heard a big boom and i felt like something came off right off the bottom of the car, looked at the rear mirror a cloud of white smoke and the car shut off. called the tow guy and as the guy lifted the car oil pour into the street like water from a bottle. this morning i snapped these pics, the piston pin came loose and open four holes, one of them being the pvc, the oil pan and two through the block. the tech guy said that the clip that holds the piston pin slided out and cause this whole mess, he also told me that this has become a problem with the speed3s, that theres no way that clip can hold that piston pin. im the third car i see in the dealer with a blown engine due to either weak rods or piston pin problems. new engine has been ordered.

[jamesk]

they covered the costs right?

[jbiird317]

and this has nothing to do with the larger turbo or increased boost??

[speed1016]

^ +1 sorry for your loss. But I dnt think that would be considered a POS

[mckraut]

If the dealer covered it, I'm quite surprised.

[Speed3Rookie]

It may be covered until the rep does their inspection.
Good luck with it.

[Aricjm15]

If the clip that held the wrist pin in failed there is still not enough room for the pin to slide out enough for it to fall out or even come out of one side of the piston.

[SPEEDYHANS]

HOLY SHIT MEN what the hell i u going to get some internals or live them stock

[daonly1around]

wow, this guys is BRILLIANT... lets put an extra 100+ horsepower in a car, and have it blow up and call it a POS... your a bright one...

where can i get an education like yourself

[Aaron@JSC]

is your sig up to date?

so you were running a Copp AP flash with a GT28 turbo? That might have had something to do with your engine failure.

[blackmica08]

wow, this guys is BRILLIANT... lets put an extra 100+ horsepower in a car, and have it blow up and call it a POS... your a bright one...

where can i get an education like yourself

first you can go fuck yourself, 2nd i was out of boost when it happened and even the tech told me that it had nothing to do with boost, last week a stock mazdaspped3 blew a rod through the block, and no im not paying for shit is all under warranty.

[jam_asian85]

wow, this guys is BRILLIANT... lets put an extra 100+ horsepower in a car, and have it blow up and call it a POS... your a bright one...

where can i get an education like yourself

eeeer I didn't see anyone calling it a POS

[blackmica08]

is your sig up to date?

so you were running a Copp AP flash with a GT28 turbo? That might have had something to do with your engine failure.


i turned my boost down to 17psi and everything seen right, short and long fuel trim were within parameters, no knock at all and i had upgraded the fuel pump, now im running a gt3071r turbo.

[Aaron@JSC]

eeeer I didn't see anyone calling it a POS


first line of the original post.


first you can go fuck yourself, 2nd i was out of boost when it happened and even the tech told me that it had nothing to do with boost, last week a stock mazdaspped3 blew a rod through the block, and no im not paying for shit is all under warranty.
If your dealership is honoring your warranty with those mods, I am going there from now on.

[Captain KRM P5]

i really don't think it has anything to do with the wristpin. its just not logical or plausible in this situation. i am betting once the engine is apart it will be an apparant rod failure and the wristpins will be intact. the pictures indicate that a rod snapped at or near the crank, which a wristpin failure or clip failure would not cause. a wristpin clip failure at worst would allow the wristpin to slide back and forth horizontally and scrape the cylinder walls apart.

either way, it does not matter, since mazda is covering the engine under warranty. thats definetely good news for you.

[jam_asian85]

first line of the original post.


just because it didnt blow under boost doesn't mean it wasn't cause by your mods. If your dealership is honoring your warranty with those mods, I am going there from now on.

Oh ok, missed that then since the OP was editted.

[daonly1around]

first you can go fuck yourself, 2nd i was out of boost when it happened and even the tech told me that it had nothing to do with boost, last week a stock mazdaspped3 blew a rod through the block, and no im not paying for shit is all under warranty.
wow, now you edit your post to say that you weren't calling your MS3 a POS....


and running 19psi on with that turbo will wear the motor faster than what it should... just because you weren't in boost when it happens doesn't mean your modifications and higher boost didn't lead to the problem.

And grow up, i was just mad for your calling the ms3 a POS... no need to get defensive.... And their is NO way you can convince me that your mods had NOTHING to do with your motor throwing a piston

[blackmica08]

wow, now you edit your post to say that you weren't calling your MS3 a POS....


and running 19psi on with that turbo will wear the motor faster than what it should... just because you weren't in boost when it happens doesn't mean your modifications and higher boost didn't lead to the problem.

And grow up, i was just mad for your calling the ms3 a POS... no need to get defensive.... And their is NO way you can convince me that your mods had NOTHING to do with your motor throwing a piston

is still a pos, go to the other forum and you will see how many pos speed3 had blown up, the fact is mazda fuck up in the design of the engine, that was exactly what every mazda thech that i know is saying, what about all the problem with th smoking brand new turbos which sometimes had to be replaced twice, aint that a POS DESIGN.

[StealthWyvern]

is still a pos, go to the other forum and you will see how many pos speed3 had blown up, the fact is mazda fuck up in the design of the engine, that was exactly what every mazda thech that i know is saying, what about all the problem with th smoking brand new turbos which sometimes had to be replaced twice, aint that a POS DESIGN.

I dont think mazda designed the turbo and that it was contracted out or that sounds logical to me anyways. Now the motor is another story....

[blackmica08]

i really don't think it has anything to do with the wristpin. its just not logical or plausible in this situation. i am betting once the engine is apart it will be an apparant rod failure and the wristpins will be intact. the pictures indicate that a rod snapped at or near the crank, which a wristpin failure or clip failure would not cause. a wristpin clip failure at worst would allow the wristpin to slide back and forth horizontally and scrape the cylinder walls apart.

either way, it does not matter, since mazda is covering the engine under warranty. thats definetely good news for you.

hey ken waz up man, theres a mark on the piston pin which the tech told me that the pin slowly slipped through the clip, the clip came off intact no damage at all.

[SPEEDYHANS]

ok u guys need to chill the 3's are not bad car but like all car they have there week point if u wore on other form thn u shod know that arout the power u wore making it was bound to happed especialy sens there no good tones out there for biger turbos let alonge knowing that here in miami there no good tuners that work on mazdas donw here

2nd daonly1around there not need for to insoult n-e-one even if they have a bad opining about the car

[coyfish]

This isn't mean't to be critical but I am amazed how you managed to get that warrantied. Regardless of what caused the damage, you still had some serious mods in there. Can't believe mazda actually analyzed the situation and took your side instead of raising red flags and screwing you at the first sight of a mod.

Ive never had a warranty problem yet so I dont really know how bad it is but ive mentioned a CAI to 4 or 5 dealers all over florida and they all act like they are ready to screw me.

The mazdaspeeds are not POS cars but I do agree they are not the most mod friendly. American cars like the SRT and cobalt are cheapies but it seems like their platforms are much sturdier for mods.

[slo4now]

first line of the original post.


If your dealership is honoring your warranty with those mods, I am going there from now on.








If i have to tow my car there i am also going to that dealer.

[dkswim]

ouch until i read your mod list. but it dosnt matter i guess if mazda is footing the bill.

[jbiird317]

i call BS that mazda will cover all this, but hey, great news for you if you either have a) a kick ass dealership that is willing to ignore MASSIVE modifications to this car or b) a very vivid imagination. Either of those should make anybody very happy :)

[Captain KRM P5]

hey ken waz up man, theres a mark on the piston pin which the tech told me that the pin slowly slipped through the clip, the clip came off intact no damage at all.

i would love to see pictures of that if possible. mazda almost never has a tech pull one of these apart even for warranty replacement, so unless the engine was stripped down that kind of damage would never be seen. not calling your tech a liar, just saying that no dealer in chicagoland (where i am) has ever been asked to do anything other than pull an engine and ship it back to corporate, then toss a new engine back into it. whether it be a 6, 3 or mazdaspeed3 or 6.

[SPEEDYHANS]

his got a good point

[PCspeed3]

Just goes to show that the speed 3 is not big turbo friendly. Cobb's Speed 3 has been on the dyno 1,000 plus times and hasint shown one sign of weakness.

[SPEEDYHANS]

thats y i think the best set up is a gt28 and im steying to it

[jamesk]

what about the new hiboost kit? they prove to push the car to 450 whp dont they?

[blackmica08]

i would love to see pictures of that if possible. mazda almost never has a tech pull one of these apart even for warranty replacement, so unless the engine was stripped down that kind of damage would never be seen. not calling your tech a liar, just saying that no dealer in chicagoland (where i am) has ever been asked to do anything other than pull an engine and ship it back to corporate, then toss a new engine back into it. whether it be a 6, 3 or mazdaspeed3 or 6.

actually i have the piston pin that ame loose with me, i post a picture tomorrow.

[blackmica08]

thats y i think the best set up is a gt28 and im steying to it

i had it with this car im putting everything back to stock and start selling every aftermarket part. theres no potential for this car , very dissapointed, i should had stay with my s/c gt.

[Captain KRM P5]

i had it with this car im putting everything back to stock and start selling every aftermarket part. theres no potential for this car , very dissapointed, i should had stay with my s/c gt.

sorry to see you jump ship my friend. enjoyed working with you.

[SPEEDYHANS]

i had it with this car im putting everything back to stock and start selling every aftermarket part. theres no potential for this car , very dissapointed, i should had stay with my s/c gt.

let me know what ur selling dont mein to sound like a volter

[Captain KRM P5]

vulture you mean? ;)

[jbiird317]

he englesh and spillng no good, must furgiv

[SPEEDYHANS]

YES plz

[mckraut]

To the OP, are you saying Mazda has already said they're going to cover it or you plan to strong arm them into covering it? Don't they send out some sort of Mazda warranty inspector or something? From the other stories I've heard, I'm stunned that Mazda would cover this under warranty at no cost to you.

[pdqgp]

If your dealership is honoring your warranty with those mods, I am going there from now on.

exactly.....and if that's truely the case, then post the name of the dealer so others can make arrangements to go there. shouldn't be a problem if what you're saying is true.

sounds rather odd though. I just got back from getting my oil changed and when I talked with the techs in the garage they all said that the Speed Series has been pretty reliable. They worked out some bugs in the Speed 6 early on but since they've been fine. And this isn't a small Mazda dealership.

In fact the only ones they've seen come in with issues are ones that have been modified. One had a completely fucked up tune done then tried to reflash it back to stock but was busted because the s/n's in the software didn't match the car. Ouch. They see a ton more WRX's and STi's though...but then they do sell a lot of those too and we all know how often those are modded and beat on.

Good luck just the same. I would say stop bashing the car though....especially when you're a far cry from stock. You've changed just about everything reliability revolves around. Now if you built 5,000 per year just like yours and then one failed...different story. Obviously something wasn't right and to blame it on the factory is plain not accurate.

[SPEEDYHANS]

hey to be honest ever sensce i meet u u have had big turbos u went from a gt 28 to a gt 30 in like no time cause when i meet u u had just installed the 28 and now ur saying that u have a 30 dode for the bidding u give it its held up prety good u must say that not only u only have had a reflash think about it

[Reyan]

I've been around modded cars for over 20 years and everyone break something, so if you want to mod a car, break it and then warranty cover it, I would say you got the better half of the stick. you have a car that was made to handle 15.6 psi of boost and you jacked it up to over 25psi, didn't you think something would overload and break?

[StealthWyvern]

I've been around modded cars for over 20 years and everyone break something, so if you want to mod a car, break it and then warranty cover it, I would say you got the better half of the stick. you have a car that was made to handle 15.6 psi of boost and you jacked it up to over 25psi, didn't you think something would overload and break?

No but maybe you should introduce him to captin obvious then? lol

[zim]

if what the OP is saying is true, that his motor just blew up when he was normally driving, then something was seriously messed up. I've read other stories of ms3's blowing up under normal driving circumstances but that's all nonsense in my opinion. you would think mazda would have worked out all the bugs seeing as how the ms6 has the same motor, but then again it's only a 2 year difference in models.

oh well. good luck on getting your motor replaced with all those mods.

SPEEDYHANS, you're making my brain hurt.

[SPEEDYHANS]

No but maybe you should introduce him to captin obvious then? lol

lmao

[justanothermp5]

how does the piston pin coming loose blow a hole in your oil pan?
even if it was loose theres nowhere for it to go, maybe a little left a little right but the rod should have still stayed connected to the piston

by piston pin u mean the wrist pin right?
can anyone explain this? cuz i seriously dont get it

edit: and how does it come loose and go through the fuckin clip?!!
doesnt make sense at ALL

[SPEEDYHANS]

if what the OP is saying is true, that his motor just blew up when he was normally driving, then something was seriously messed up. I've read other stories of ms3's blowing up under normal driving circumstances but that's all nonsense in my opinion. you would think mazda would have worked out all the bugs seeing as how the ms6 has the same motor, but then again it's only a 2 year difference in models.

oh well. good luck on getting your motor replaced with all those mods.

SPEEDYHANS, you're making my brain hurt.

then dont read (fu)

[jbiird317]

how does the piston pin coming loose blow a hole in your oil pan?
even if it was loose theres nowhere for it to go, maybe a little left a little right but the rod should have still stayed connected to the piston

by piston pin u mean the wrist pin right?
can anyone explain this? cuz i seriously dont get it

edit: and how does it come loose and go through the fuckin clip?!!
doesnt make sense at ALL

under normal driving and no boost no less...

[mattj3636]

he probably was under boost, and he was beating his car most likely because he had the mods and power and his story of "not under boost" is probably just fear of mazda reps on the forums.

becuase his version of the story is crap. no dealer that iv seen will cover a blown motor with those mods, so please, post the name of the dealer and where its located.

[///M Compact]

he probably was under boost, and he was beating his car most likely because he had the mods and power and his story of "not under boost" is probably just fear of mazda reps on the forums.

becuase his version of the story is crap. no dealer that iv seen will cover a blown motor with those mods, so please, post the name of the dealer and where its located.

I'd like to know which dealer as well...

[pdqgp]

if what the OP is saying is true, that his motor just blew up when he was normally driving, then something was seriously messed up.
SPEEDYHANS, you're making my brain hurt.

not necessarily...motors that have that many mods done to them are typically under major stress compared to stock cars....and they don't just break when being driven hard or at the track. the stress takes its toll over time.

the human body is the same way. some folks live with major ailments that over time just cause them to drop dead. my uncle lived with an aneurysm that worsened over time and just popped one day while he was watching TV. Dead in less than one minute.

I do agree though...something was seriously messed up.

[Young Roids]

I am not gonna mod my car. I have seen too many problems with engines blowing.

[Aricjm15]

even if the clip comes out, the wristpin cannot fall out enough to cause this kind of damage. All you need to do is bend the rod just enough, once it has that bend it can snap at any time regardless of how you are driving it.

[Captain KRM P5]

keep it civil folks.

point blank, where the hole is and where the wrist pin is at are two totally opposite ends of the engine. the rod broke off at the bottom, probably at the crank. thats what blows a hole. a wrist pin is situated horizontally through a hole at the top of the rod and thus through a hole at the base of the piston. it cannot "fall out". i cannot say this enough. a wrist pin CANNOT fall out of anything inside an assembled engine. it has no place to go, period. it cannot move up and down inside the rod and piston, because the clearances between the pin and the holes it slides into are less than a millimeter. is it a lubricated snug fit. if the clip breaks, the pin will, at worst, slide over to the side and scratch up and down on the cylinder wall. the pin is not short enough even to slide all the way to one side and drop the rod out even if a clip breaks.

only thing i could think of, the clip snapped, wrist pin slid to one side, made contact with the cylinder wall at engine speed (hundreds to thousands of rpms) and the repeated high speed impacts and vibrations traveled into the rotating assembly (pistons, rods, crank) and broke the weakest link. which would frankly be yet one more piece of evidence to deflate the "factory forged super strong rod" idiocy that lingers out here in the community.

i hate to even speculate further because it doesn't matter. one more blown engine, warranty is fixing it, customer is selling his car, community goes on, as the world turns...

[Silver Ecstasy]

Maybe i'm in denial when I say this..

I think there are a lot more happy MS3 owners with light mods than unhappy, disgruntled MS3 owners with heavy mods that blew their engines.

I've said it in the past, I don't think this car was made to mod for heavy power. It's a handling car, with liveable power on a day to day basis.

Each thread I read about disaster striking, makes me enjoy the car more and more for what it's worth and what it's capable of. And considering the fact i'm looking to keep it for the long term, i'm going to try and ignore these turbo'd videos on youtube..it's hard to resist lol.

Sorry to hear about your troubles OP! Good luck selling everything at a loss and trading the car in at a loss. (Not tryin to be a dick about it..)

[LASERBLUE135]

you guys talkin' about the MS3 breaking easily make me laugh! try living with an msp. Sooo many horror stories, but mine has been solid for 107k miles.

I would really love to hear that mazda will cover this. I once was told that mazda would cover my $800 cracked axle job, they FIXED THE CAR, then told me that they could not cover it and asked if I had been in an accident (which I had 6 months prior), and the insurance did cover it to my great relief or there would have been a shit storm at the dealership. I got $20 bucks that says mazda tells this guy to GTFO!

[MSP2024]

I am not gonna mod my car. I have seen too many problems with engines blowing.

go read the msp section,were blowing motors at stock boost(6.9 psi) but still we mod,i dont get why people put bigger turbos and shit on there cars and expect stock internals to hold up never trust stock shit haha

[MicaSp33d]

go read the msp section,were blowing motors at stock boost(6.9 psi) but still we mod,i dont get why people put bigger turbos and shit on there cars and expect stock internals to hold up never trust stock shit haha

+1

thats y theres aftermarket internals, for your aftermarket turbos ... duh haha

all this bashing on the ms3 ... i don't visit the other forums but how about the cx-7 and ms6? It has the same motor, does it have the same bashing and problems. If it doesn't , then that just dumb this bash this car and call it a pos.

[IMAX]

Ok... So a BOV, Exhaust, & a CAI shouldn't cause a catastrophe right?

[Reyan]

after reviewing all the mods people do to these cars and blow the motor, I think the best turbo upgrade is the rebuilt turbo from protoge garage here's why, 1. it looks O.E.M. when you go to the dealer 2. you spool up faster and run stock boost 3. bigger turbos spool up late, so if you wanna run someone you gotta wait and do a roll from 80mph lol, what if you went to the track? you'll probably hit boost at the finish line, and your spending like a 1000.00 more.

[BOOSTR]

99.9% of the time its the driver and the loads that he/she subjects the car too when it comes to zoom-zoom boom. Almost never is the real story told in these cases. 100% of the time the problem car is referred to as a POS or poorly designed.

[djthom]

after reviewing all the mods people do to these cars and blow the motor, I think the best turbo upgrade is the rebuilt turbo from protoge garage here's why, 1. it looks O.E.M. when you go to the dealer 2. you spool up faster and run stock boost 3. bigger turbos spool up late, so if you wanna run someone you gotta wait and do a roll from 80mph lol, what if you went to the track? you'll probably hit boost at the finish line, and your spending like a 1000.00 more.
What?! let's not exaggerate too much now...

Ok... So a BOV, Exhaust, & a CAI shouldn't cause a catastrophe right?
you are screwed!

Maybe i'm in denial when I say this..

I think there are a lot more happy MS3 owners with light mods than unhappy, disgruntled MS3 owners with heavy mods that blew their engines.

I've said it in the past, I don't think this car was made to mod for heavy power. It's a handling car, with liveable power on a day to day basis.

Each thread I read about disaster striking, makes me enjoy the car more and more for what it's worth and what it's capable of. And considering the fact i'm looking to keep it for the long term, i'm going to try and ignore these turbo'd videos on youtube..it's hard to resist lol.

Sorry to hear about your troubles OP! Good luck selling everything at a loss and trading the car in at a loss. (Not tryin to be a dick about it..)


so let me get this straight, people with working cars are happy and people with broken ones aren't? Brilliant!

and yeah you may not have tried to be a dick but guess what...dick


To the OP, if you get this fixed under warranty, you sir are GOOD!

To the Mazda warranty guy, Please help me I am a Nigerian prince.

[Silver Ecstasy]

so let me get this straight, people with working cars are happy and people with broken ones aren't? Brilliant!

and yeah you may not have tried to be a dick but guess what...dick


Well, the perspective I was coming from is, there are a lot more working MS3's out there than MS3's just flat out blowing up. It was meant to be encouraging rather than ignorant.

Atleast I was being blunt about the fact of losing half on mods. You didn't have to be a dick calling everyone out. But whatever floats your boat.

[blackmica08]

once i get my car back with the new engine i will post pictures of it for all of the haters, the fact is im not paying for the new engine and im not posting either in which dealer im going to, if someone locally had a similar problem please feel free to pm me, when they put the car on the lift there were pieces of the aluminum block and the piston pin resting on the black plastic cover under the car. also i wasnt beating on the car when it happened, believe it or not.

[jbiird317]

once i get my car back with the new engine i will post pictures of it for all of the haters, the fact is im not paying for the new engine and im not posting either in which dealer im going to, if someone locally had a similar problem please feel free to pm me, when they put the car on the lift there were pieces of the aluminum block and the piston pin resting on the black plastic cover under the car. also i wasnt beating on the car when it happened, believe it or not.

ok so agreed that you maybe were not abusing the car when the damage happened, but blaming the car is just dumb when you consider the previous stress this engine was under. When you mod a car, you assume the risk that something catastrophic may occur.

In this case (supposedly) mazda is bailing you out, but in my opinion, you cannot blame their design. I havent heard of anyone with a stock motor or even light mods snapping rods and blowing a hole in the block (unlike the msp lol), you changed mazda's design and clearly created a stress on the engine that it could not withstand, and now you face the consequences. We wish you luck in whatever car you decide to go with next, but maybe this is a lesson in supporting big power mods like this with forged internals?

[SuperStretch18]

...all this bashing on the ms3 ... i don't visit the other forums but how about the cx-7 and ms6? It has the same motor, does it have the same bashing and problems. If it doesn't , then that just dumb this bash this car and call it a pos.

No catastrophic engine failures for CX-7's that I've heard of yet, but there also aren't people throwing bigger turbos on either. Looking at the OP's mod list, I can almost guarantee that there aren't ANY CX-7's as modded as this MS3.

I absolutely believe the OP when he says that he wasn't pushing the engine when it blew, but that doesn't mean the damage wasn't already done. It's like a pickle jar (stay with me here). You huff and puff trying to get the thing open for ten minutes, hand it to your girlfriend and she opens it no problem. That doesn't mean that the pickle jar was easy to open, just that the work done earlier was what got the job done.

That might not make sense, but whatever... (beer)

[blackmica08]

ok so agreed that you maybe were not abusing the car when the damage happened, but blaming the car is just dumb when you consider the previous stress this engine was under. When you mod a car, you assume the risk that something catastrophic may occur.

In this case (supposedly) mazda is bailing you out, but in my opinion, you cannot blame their design. I havent heard of anyone with a stock motor or even light mods snapping rods and blowing a hole in the block (unlike the msp lol), you changed mazda's design and clearly created a stress on the engine that it could not withstand, and now you face the consequences. We wish you luck in whatever car you decide to go with next, but maybe this is a lesson in supporting big power mods like this with forged internals?

two weeks ago i went to that same dealer to have my oil change, i had my own oil, and i usually go straight to the back cause everyone knows me there and went i step in the shop there was a blue cosmic speed with a blown engine, complely stock, cylinder 4 failure, car had 3500 miles.

[BOOSTR]

Stock or modified is immaterial. Its how long and how hard you push it, especially when you are driving around with an effective compression ratio of 21.77:1 (19psi on 9.5:1 in Miami).

[jbiird317]

well you must be right and everyone else wrong then, this car is a piece of crap, anyone wanna buy mine?

[714ms3]

I agree with the fact that you may have not been working the car when the failure occurred, but consider how long you had the mods on, and how you drove it in-between. It was an accident waiting to happen.
I am just unsure as to why you won't post the name of the dealership. You should have nothing to hide from us, and should want to share that kind of information to help us out. If you choose not to, well sir you are then guilty of not only stupidity, but also mass-douchebagness.

[blackmica08]

well you must be right and everyone else wrong then, this car is a piece of crap, anyone wanna buy mine?

did i said everyone here is wrong no, i might said out of frustration that the car is pos which i know is not, but im pretty sure that theres is a flaw in the ms3 engine.

[Kain]

It's like a pickle jar (stay with me here). You huff and puff trying to get the thing open for ten minutes, hand it to your girlfriend and she opens it no problem. That doesn't mean that the pickle jar was easy to open, just that the work done earlier was what got the job done.

If it makes you feel better. :)

[SuperStretch18]

If it makes you feel better. :)

Hey...

The fact that my GF is built like a linebacker doesn't mean anything... ;)

[mckraut]

I am just unsure as to why you won't post the name of the dealership. You should have nothing to hide from us, and should want to share that kind of information to help us out.

Agreed, why not share the name of this godsend of a dealership? I'm sure people living around you would like to know where they can take their car and not get shafted for having mods. I know the dealership I bought my car from has turned down 3 requests for replacement of blown turbos. If I lived near you, I'd want to know about this shop as well. Hell, with the kind of customer service you're receiving from them, you should make a thread filled with praise in your regional section's forum.

[speed1016]

No sweat its covered right? Everyone is guilty of typing stupid shit out of frustration. Good luck

[Speed3Rookie]

IMHO I don't think it would be a good idea to post the name of the dealership in question. If Mazda warranty reps do indeed monitor these sites he would be exposed so if he was a mod friendly dealer this would no longer be the case.

[mazdaspeedster3]

If the Warranty Police are on here he is already screwed. It would not be hard to find a dealership in Florida with a complete engine replace going on and then "stop" by to check out the work and see the mods attached. I wouldnt have posted this at all until it was all said and done...

[specvspeedfreak]

I don't think he should say the name of the dealership either. For one he is obviously being hooked up, so why Jeopardize his chances of this or future hook ups when the dealer can get in deep sh!! for?
but...
but Blackmica- your some idiot though.lol.. why even post this? ... it makes you look so stupid..

[SuperStretch18]

God, get off the guy's back. If your car blew (collectively "your", not anyone in particular), you'd all be pretty pissed too. Shame on him for trying to share his experience I guess. I agree that he came off a little rough calling the car a POS, but let it go. He has.

Regardless if this was his fault or Mazda's or the f'n tooth fairy's, the more information that we all have, the better to figure out where the line in the sand is for the MS3 (and by virtue of that, my car! :D). Hope everything works out...

Definitely don't call out the dealer who's helping you, BTW. Wait until you are covered...

[jbiird317]

God, get off the guy's back. If your car blew (collectively "your", not anyone in particular), you'd all be pretty pissed too. Shame on him for trying to share his experience I guess. I agree that he came off a little rough calling the car a POS, but let it go. He has.

Regardless if this was his fault or Mazda's or the f'n tooth fairy's, the more information that we all have, the better to figure out where the line in the sand is for the MS3 (and by virtue of that, my car! :D). Hope everything works out...

Definitely don't call out the dealer who's helping you, BTW. Wait until you are covered...

you are right, we need to keep things civil. Everyone would be upset if this happened to them, who is to blame doesnt really matter, lets just see how this ends up before we judge. (this isnt a retraction of my previously stated opinion, but an effort to keep people off this guys back)

[Kain]

innanets.

[DeanSweet]

so let me get this straight... I have a simple CAI on my car and Mazda tags it as 'no longer under drivetrain warranty' well before my 50k/4yrs was up but your dealership is replacing your engine with all your mods. Hell, I may have to move down your to take my car to your dealership. Curious if that will hold true once the local mazda rep checks it out?

I'm not a turbo guy so I can't say your mods were a direct cause for this failure but I'm sure it didnt help matters.
My question to you is... Are you putting the car back to stock once you get it back or are you keeping all the mods on?

Keep us posted.

[blackmica08]

No sweat its covered right? Everyone is guilty of typing stupid shit out of frustration. Good luck

absolulety correct sir, i had calm down already and most likely i will keep the car, but this time i will make sure nothing like that happens again.

[Conso]

built motor!, thats y i went w/ the 76r so i can shove in a lil more boost when she does blow lol

[xtrememps]

first you can go fuck yourself, 2nd i was out of boost when it happened and even the tech told me that it had nothing to do with boost, last week a stock mazdaspped3 blew a rod through the block, and no im not paying for shit is all under warranty.

First of all watch your mouth, second of all I see one mod missing from your list. It's called forged internals...I don't care if you were in boost or not if you slap a bigger turbo on just because you weren't in boost THAT SECOND you probably have been weakening things slowly. Metal gets fatigued over time. Lesson learned I guess. Sucks either way, just don't get pissy when people call it like it is eh?

[blackmica08]

God, get off the guy's back. If your car blew (collectively "your", not anyone in particular), you'd all be pretty pissed too. Shame on him for trying to share his experience I guess. I agree that he came off a little rough calling the car a POS, but let it go. He has.

Regardless if this was his fault or Mazda's or the f'n tooth fairy's, the more information that we all have, the better to figure out where the line in the sand is for the MS3 (and by virtue of that, my car! :D). Hope everything works out...

Definitely don't call out the dealer who's helping you, BTW. Wait until you are covered...

i wont mind let anyone here who is in need to give them the dealer i went to but i think is unwise to post it online, something like that happens and everybody jumps on you, i just came from the dealer and i saw two speed3 engines with less than 2000 miles blown who had been replaced already, i will post pic soon.

[DaleNixon]

I hear so many conflicting reports about our cars. Some say the engine is solid and the transmission is built like a tank; some say the car is a smoking pile of crap.

Makes me wonder if I'm putting my car in danger with my HKS SRI and Forge BPV. Oh well... you only live once (ugh) I'll just stay away from the big power mods.

Doesn't insurance sometimes cover stuff like this if the warranty doesn't?

[DaleNixon]

Dudes calm down! He was steamed about his engine blowing and he let his emotions get involved with his posting. Even he agrees this is the case. Let's all stop being dicks to each other in this thread! (hippy)

[shane02pro5]

Just trade in all your ms3's for protege's and "KNOW" that you have to replace or rebuild everything from the ground up!

[blackmica08]

im not cursing at everyone here you are wrong, im cursing at you.

[blackmica08]

Dudes calm down! He was steamed about his engine blowing and he let his emotions get involved with his posting. Even he agrees this is the case. Let's all stop being dicks to each other in this thread! (hippy)

dude im calm down is just this people that jump in the thread and start talking crap. to the mod on the site no more cursing.

[Shiroi_ms3]

I just saw this post, sorry bout your engine blowing up, that must suck.
I had my slave cylinder break like 2 weeks ago and I was mad fucking pissed.

I'm glad you will keep the car, but if my engine blew I would have the same serious thoughts about changing vehicles.

[Dparks7]

this guy keeps saying that the engine is bad...then why has it been on the 10 best engines list for the last few years, for power, relaibility and quality?

[jbiird317]

this guy keeps saying that the engine is bad...then why has it been on the 10 best engines list for the last few years, for power, relaibility and quality?

even the best engines can be beaten to death. If you make a habit of driving a car hard and treating it badly, even a stock motor can have problems; and the more power coming out of it, the quicker the downfall can be.

[daonly1around]

if i remember right most people that are blowing stock motors are people going WOT at like 60MPH or less in six gear, i forgot the exact terminology that was being used, but something along the lines that the car was building boost but nowhere for it to go.... any way, glad the dealer is covering it

[gtlaw]

i wont mind let anyone here who is in need to give them the dealer i went to but i think is unwise to post it online, something like that happens and everybody jumps on you, i just came from the dealer and i saw two speed3 engines with less than 2000 miles blown who had been replaced already, i will post pic soon.

were those cars stock?

[blackmica08]

were those cars stock?

yes sir , bone stock

[Reyan]

sometimes you get a bad apple. who here have ever seen a dealership without a service dept. every car out there breaks at some point. Dude I am happy you are getting your engine covered under warranty, let's face it most of us here has done some form of alteration (mods) to our cars and at any given time some one of us can be in this situation.

[Captain KRM P5]

this guy keeps saying that the engine is bad...then why has it been on the 10 best engines list for the last few years, for power, relaibility and quality?

car and driver doesn't drive the cars the same way people who mod them do, nor do they keep a test car much longer than six months. the RENESIS rotary was engine of the year and a 10best engine too, and look how many of those mazda has had to replace.

for the most part, if the car is left stock and driven sanely, people will be fine. i have seen stock or close to stock DISI engines in the 3 and 6 pop. its been posted on here and other forums. is it an epidemic? no. my buddy with an N/A 3 and no mods blew his engine at 11,000 miles. shit happens, there are indeed bad apples in every bunch. this is why we have warranties. if a dealer wants to warranty a fully modded car, then thats a big win for the consumer. i do not think that is nor should be the norm.

i do not think the engine is as robust when it comes to mods as what an Evo, SRT or STi has under the hood. sorry. flame me for saying that, evidence over time bears that out however.


+1

thats y theres aftermarket internals, for your aftermarket turbos ... duh haha

all this bashing on the ms3 ... i don't visit the other forums but how about the cx-7 and ms6? It has the same motor, does it have the same bashing and problems. If it doesn't , then that just dumb this bash this car and call it a pos.

ms6s have blown motors, moreso than speed3s. they have been on the road longer than ms3s however, so that has to be taken into account. and as i said, its not an epidemic of bum engines. the grand scheme of things, many of the people who own these cars don't mod them, don't come on forums or when they do either they don't talk about the ups and downs. so considering all that, no one should be thinking that despite valid misgivings that the engines are going to silly putty themselves in every car.


after reviewing all the mods people do to these cars and blow the motor, I think the best turbo upgrade is the rebuilt turbo from protoge garage here's why, 1. it looks O.E.M. when you go to the dealer 2. you spool up faster and run stock boost 3. bigger turbos spool up late, so if you wanna run someone you gotta wait and do a roll from 80mph lol, what if you went to the track? you'll probably hit boost at the finish line, and your spending like a 1000.00 more.

you hit the nail on the head. no dealer will be able to tell our turbo from a stocker by looking at it.

[MSPYOUNGERS38]

i got my msp covered under warrnty after all the after market on it and the wrist pin came out after the put it back together and went through the block just after they replaced it.

[oaklandopen]

im still having trouble understanding this wrist pin "clip". as far as i know wrist pins are installed by way of heating up components to expansion, sliding the wrist pin in, then as the components cool the pin is in there for good. the pin slides freely against the piston head, while it's immobile on the rod. and since the rod with cap are basically not sliding around the rod journal, the wrist pin isn't (or shouldn't) be going back and forth within the piston head.

secondly, i agree with all the ones stating the need for internal work (forged components and whatnot). sometimes to do things the right way the first time is to rip everything apart and beef it up, not just pistons either. bearings, head bolts, whatever. all this if you want to try and keep your car for longer than 1 startup cuz it's getting 400 hp to the wheels.

[Aricjm15]

the ms3/6 use a floating wrist pin that is held into the piston by C clips on either end, but even if one of those clips falls out there is not enough room to the cylinder wall for the pin to fall out

[jbiird317]

i do not think the engine is as robust when it comes to mods as what an Evo, SRT or STi has under the hood. sorry. flame me for saying that, evidence over time bears that out however.


no flames, this is true. proof is in the pudding. It kinda goes along with what everyone has been saying in here already tho, when you mod this car, be careful and take precautions to avoid seeing problems like this guy has seen.

[MicaSp33d]

i hate these treads about engine blowing because all the other guys (VW, Honda) will eventally see or hear about it. While i'm walkin them, their gonna think, you got me now, but who wins in the end when you go boom. LOL .. it kind of takes away the satisfaction of smokin these guys and they still thinking .. "at least i'm not a ticking time bomb"

Just the other day, my little brother with a GTI was like "i heard a lot of MS3 are blowning their motors" blah blah and so on.

I'm not agreeing that we a prone to blowup, but i guess i take much pride in my car and i don't want people thinking that either.(shady)

[DaleNixon]

So what are "safe" mods for our cars that shouldn't cause any problems if they do not already exist?

I'm building a bit of a mod list, but threads like this make me feel nervous! If, for example, I wanted to upgrade my stock TMIC to one that is more efficient, would I be putting my car at risk?

[Snyeed]

The key word here is "Tune"

With the right supporting mods to any turbo upgrade followed by a good tune, who knows how long a stock block will last. I'm sure all the Honda, Subaru, Mitsubishi's have been through this at one time or another.

Do you mind me asking how long you have been running the upgraded turbo with that OTS AP map?

Its still way early in the game for the Mazda DISI engine, Yes people need to push the limits and get everything worked out but it needs to start some where. We should all be thanking him for pushing the MS3 to the breaking point so we can all learn :)

[blackmica08]

The key word here is "Tune"

With the right supporting mods to any turbo upgrade followed by a good tune, who knows how long a stock block will last. I'm sure all the Honda, Subaru, Mitsubishi's have been through this at one time or another.

Do you mind me asking how long you have been running the upgraded turbo with that OTS AP map?

Its still way early in the game for the Mazda DISI engine, Yes people need to push the limits and get everything worked out but it needs to start some where. We should all be thanking him for pushing the MS3 to the breaking point so we can all learn :)

ive been running that map for 4 months.

[mattj3636]

instead of running preset maps, why didn't you get the standback and get a custom tune to your mods...

seems a bunch safer than running a pre-set map

[Snyeed]

Wow 4 months, Honestly I didn't think it would have lasted that long.

Good luck on getting the new engine, Awesome dealer if all goes through :)

[blackmica08]

Wow 4 months, Honestly I didn't think it would have lasted that long.

Good luck on getting the new engine, Awesome dealer if all goes through :)


why did it surprised you that much, they are other members running bigger turbos and higher psi than me. like i said car was running fine. people think that i abused my car, the ms3 is my daily driver and im a salesman so i go around visiting clients and stuff, i cant be caught racing because then the insurance rate that my company paid as well as the fuel will be raise, i wont deny that i have had my fun with the car and once in a while i do race but is not like im going around everyday stomping on the car and abusing the car. it happened and theres nothing to it, better luck next time.

[Young Roids]

+1

thats y theres aftermarket internals, for your aftermarket turbos ... duh haha

all this bashing on the ms3 ... i don't visit the other forums but how about the cx-7 and ms6? It has the same motor, does it have the same bashing and problems. If it doesn't , then that just dumb this bash this car and call it a pos.

Thing is that I had hoped the DISI would handle more power but it looks like it doesn't. I am satisfied with the stock performance and I want to keep my car for a long time more than 10 years. If you look at other turbo 4s out there some of them do handle more power well look at the evo for example. So I don't thing it's out of line to hope the engine would handle an extra 100hp but this one doesn't. I will just be content with the stock power and leave it at that, it's still the best car I have ever owned.

[Captain KRM P5]

mazda engineers their engines and components to what they expect out of them, historically speaking. this is not news folks. companies like honda, nissan, dodge, etc have been known to overengineer their products. just a corporate mentality. you don't see stock rx7s, rx8s, 323 GTs making hundreds of horsepower on stock engines. SRT offers factory sanctioned reflashes, turbo upgrades, injectors, etc. mazda offers springs and camber kits.

this is not a trash talk on the brand, this is simply how it is. to be a mazda enthusiast you have to be willing to take the car for its limitations as well as its strengths. you have to be willing to take risks and spend the money where needed. its a fact of life that other cars are going to take to mods better or take to abuse better stock. does it make it more challenging to reach those levels? sure. does that make the car less enjoyable to drive? no.

its a 23,000 dollar sport compact, not a 60,000 corvette. there are going to be limitations.

[jamesk]

yea i would have to agree with ken, i love my car because being a fun ass mazda, deff. not because its the best bang for its buck or the fastest or whatever.

the cars need extra work and attention, but that brings out the extra fun and enjoyment, and my modded p5 was expensive, but deff. worth it. its one of a kind!

[Speed3Rookie]

ive been running that map for 4 months.
Got any previous data logs to share?

[Snyeed]

why did it surprised you that much, they are other members running bigger turbos and higher psi than me. like i said car was running fine. people think that i abused my car, the ms3 is my daily driver and im a salesman so i go around visiting clients and stuff, i cant be caught racing because then the insurance rate that my company paid as well as the fuel will be raise, i wont deny that i have had my fun with the car and once in a while i do race but is not like im going around everyday stomping on the car and abusing the car. it happened and theres nothing to it, better luck next time.

Because your car is not tuned for that turbo setup, yes your not pushing the turbo to the limits but its still a very big upgrade from stock.

I'm sure you weren't racing around who knows, strange things can happen anytime. It just goes to show how fragile motors can be.

Please everyone head over to NASIOC or an EVO forum and check out the steps they take when upgrading there cars, I cant say I see any of them running around on upgraded turbos with out getting tuned.

Back on topic whats the plans for your car?

[Young Roids]

mazda engineers their engines and components to what they expect out of them, historically speaking. this is not news folks. companies like honda, nissan, dodge, etc have been known to overengineer their products. just a corporate mentality. you don't see stock rx7s, rx8s, 323 GTs making hundreds of horsepower on stock engines. SRT offers factory sanctioned reflashes, turbo upgrades, injectors, etc. mazda offers springs and camber kits.

this is not a trash talk on the brand, this is simply how it is. to be a mazda enthusiast you have to be willing to take the car for its limitations as well as its strengths. you have to be willing to take risks and spend the money where needed. its a fact of life that other cars are going to take to mods better or take to abuse better stock. does it make it more challenging to reach those levels? sure. does that make the car less enjoyable to drive? no.

its a 23,000 dollar sport compact, not a 60,000 corvette. there are going to be limitations.


I don't buy that argument. First of all there are plenty of FDs out there pushing mega horsepower. Second if that were the case word would be out and people would know about it, and no one would buy mazdas anymore. This is the first I have heard about this and it sounds made up.

[jbiird317]

I don't buy that argument. First of all there are plenty of FDs out there pushing mega horsepower. Second if that were the case word would be out and people would know about it, and no one would buy mazdas anymore. This is the first I have heard about this and it sounds made up.

your argument is weak. people would not simply boycot mazda because its not known to respond well to high HP. Ken is right, this car has some great strengths, but there are also notable weaknesses, knowing what those are is half the battle

[coyfish]

What would you consider to be the performance strenghts of the mazdaspeed 3 / 6 ?

[jamesk]

What would you consider to be the performance strenghts of the mazdaspeed 3 / 6 ?

a car that can do 155 mph for 22 grand maybe?

[mattj3636]

and 0-60 in under 6. lol

[Young Roids]

your argument is weak. people would not simply boycot mazda because its not known to respond well to high HP. Ken is right, this car has some great strengths, but there are also notable weaknesses, knowing what those are is half the battle

HE is acting like this is some kind of proven fact that mazdas are weaker than everything else out there. And that is BS. The DISI motor is not responding very well to modification. He is trying to say it's a known fact that ALL mazda engines and components are under engineered and I think that is just a pile of BS.

[jbiird317]

great handling, high torque that gives considerable power through all gears, budget turbo car

[jbiird317]

HE is acting like this is some kind of proven fact that mazdas are weaker than everything else out there. And that is BS. The DISI motor is not responding very well to modification. He is trying to say it's a known fact that ALL mazda engines and components are under engineered and I think that is just a pile of BS.

well that wouldnt make much sense for someone that earns his money selling modifications for mazda vehicles. I think he is just trying to say that there are probably better platforms out there if youre looking to build that 500 HP monster.

[jamesk]

i thought the disi motor responds very well to mods no? dont people get high numbers all the times with these?

[Reyan]

i hate these treads about engine blowing because all the other guys (VW, Honda) will eventally see or hear about it. While i'm walkin them, their gonna think, you got me now, but who wins in the end when you go boom. LOL .. it kind of takes away the satisfaction of smokin these guys and they still thinking .. "at least i'm not a ticking time bomb"

Just the other day, my little brother with a GTI was like "i heard a lot of MS3 are blowning their motors" blah blah and so on.

I'm not agreeing that we a prone to blowup, but i guess i take much pride in my car and i don't want people thinking that either.(shady)

Don't worry about Vw's, before a vw is lemon law, they buy it back from the customer, that's why you don't see vw with problems, back is the early 2000 they had electrical problems and honda's their engine will hold a bigger turbo without blowing up is because they do not have any torque, mazda engines start making power from 2500 rpm, honda you gotta hit VTEC at 5500 before you pull any kinda power, and the gear ratio in a mazds is higher so you redline faster, also tell your brother Mazda is the only Japanese car company to ever win at Le Mans 24hr race.

[GoFast]

i hate these treads about engine blowing because all the other guys (VW, Honda) will eventally see or hear about it. While i'm walkin them, their gonna think, you got me now, but who wins in the end when you go boom. LOL .. it kind of takes away the satisfaction of smokin these guys and they still thinking .. "at least i'm not a ticking time bomb"

Just the other day, my little brother with a GTI was like "i heard a lot of MS3 are blowning their motors" blah blah and so on.

I'm not agreeing that we a prone to blowup, but i guess i take much pride in my car and i don't want people thinking that either.(shady)

lol yeah because VW's are the definition of reliable?(rofl)

[ThreeEdgedSword]

lol yeah because VW's are the definition of reliable?(rofl)

My coworker's GLI is reliable - it regularly has problems with it's high-pressure fuel pump (No start and/or loss of power while driving).

[kickniteasy]

wow....a thread about someone putting a much bigger turbo on there car, having it blow up, and then calling the car a complete piece of crap....what an original post for a car forum. If you mess with something from the factory and bad things happen you've only got yourself to blame, it's part of the car modding game. Good luck finding a car where you can't find a thousand threads just like this one related to it.

I also find it odd that people are having trouble getting warranty work done with things as small as a CAI but you're getting a whole new engine covered with the mods you had on the car.

[oaklandopen]

i think maybe the main thing to realize is that the ms3 really is fine the way it is. and im guilty of wanting more power just like a lot of ppl, but im slowly realizing it's just kinda dumb.

the reason why is because this is a FWD car. it will never have good take off, it will never be better around a track, and it will never be a large displacement (2.3 liters is just not enough to get any high hp safely while keeping longevity, without bringing lots of money to the table)

this car has plenty of power already. so much so that mazda found it neccessary to prevent all that power from reaching the wheels in first and second gear. so in a way, they were nice enough to help you save a little bit on tires

[jam_asian85]

(nana) I call dibs !!!

[SPEEDYHANS]

(nana) I call dibs !!!

and what r u going to do with it have it parked lol

[Captain KRM P5]

well that wouldnt make much sense for someone that earns his money selling modifications for mazda vehicles. I think he is just trying to say that there are probably better platforms out there if youre looking to build that 500 HP monster.

thank you. people who want 500 whp out of a FWD car boggle the mind anyways.


HE is acting like this is some kind of proven fact that mazdas are weaker than everything else out there. And that is BS. The DISI motor is not responding very well to modification. He is trying to say it's a known fact that ALL mazda engines and components are under engineered and I think that is just a pile of BS.

read what i said. i never said they were underengineered. i said they are not overengineered. a scion tc 2.4 can easily push over 400whp on a dyno with a supercharger and not break a sweat - stock bottom end. thats one of many, and thats not even what most would consider a "tuner engine." people have already posted in here how weak the MSP engine was. a Mazdaspeed Miata engine hasn't been much better than 250 with a good tune either. i just covered all the mazdaspeed vehicles. if you want to look at non-speed vehicles in terms of what they'll take and compare it side by side to other four bangers out there, the evidence will bear itself out.


I don't buy that argument. First of all there are plenty of FDs out there pushing mega horsepower. Second if that were the case word would be out and people would know about it, and no one would buy mazdas anymore. This is the first I have heard about this and it sounds made up.

sounds made up? how long have you been working on mazdas, selling mazdas, owning mazdas, tuning mazdas? probably not as long as i have, no offense.

FDs can make alot of horsepower. so can FCs. i've owned three different rx7s, so you might say i have some clue there. not on factory apex seals. not without aggressive tuning. not without far better cooling, air and water, in place. not without dumping the twin turbos. you want word, just go over to rx7club or nopistons forums and see how much money people dump into a 13B. see how much people spend to buy a 20B swap. and then read why people continue to blow up their 2 rotor engines and then commit ultimate automotive adultery and go to a Chevy small block. people aren't making reliable 500 rwhp on a stock setup. the rx7 is no more a tuner wunderkind than the money you want to spend into it, period. buy it or don't buy it, but be informed before calling me someone a liar.

look, i'm the biggest mazdaknut out there, and everyone knows that. but i've worked with them long enough, put parts on them long enough, seen them blow up and blow off doors, sold them, serviced them log enough with cylinders or triangles to be a realist. if you read what i said, you'd understand that. i love the car, love the brand, love the way the cars drive. but i also know the strengths and weaknesses, and so do many other people, which is why you see alot more cars from other brands getting the aftermarket attention that they do. it makes it more challenging for our crowd, and frankly i like that. it makes it all that more rewarding when real breakthroughs are made and real big numbers are reliably achieved.

[MicaSp33d]

Don't worry about Vw's, before a vw is lemon law, they buy it back from the customer, that's why you don't see vw with problems, back is the early 2000 they had electrical problems and honda's their engine will hold a bigger turbo without blowing up is because they do not have any torque, mazda engines start making power from 2500 rpm, honda you gotta hit VTEC at 5500 before you pull any kinda power, and the gear ratio in a mazds is higher so you redline faster, also tell your brother Mazda is the only Japanese car company to ever win at Le Mans 24hr race.

787B FTW!

[shane02pro5]

It won't be long before we start seeing 400whp+ MS3's and MS6's as commonly as 300whp+ proteges are around here. Just have to get over a few humps or casualties to figure out its limits and time to upgrade...$$$$$!

[Young Roids]

thank you. people who want 500 whp out of a FWD car boggle the mind anyways.



read what i said. i never said they were underengineered. i said they are not overengineered. a scion tc 2.4 can easily push over 400whp on a dyno with a supercharger and not break a sweat - stock bottom end. thats one of many, and thats not even what most would consider a "tuner engine." people have already posted in here how weak the MSP engine was. a Mazdaspeed Miata engine hasn't been much better than 250 with a good tune either. i just covered all the mazdaspeed vehicles. if you want to look at non-speed vehicles in terms of what they'll take and compare it side by side to other four bangers out there, the evidence will bear itself out.



sounds made up? how long have you been working on mazdas, selling mazdas, owning mazdas, tuning mazdas? probably not as long as i have, no offense.

FDs can make alot of horsepower. so can FCs. i've owned three different rx7s, so you might say i have some clue there. not on factory apex seals. not without aggressive tuning. not without far better cooling, air and water, in place. not without dumping the twin turbos. you want word, just go over to rx7club or nopistons forums and see how much money people dump into a 13B. see how much people spend to buy a 20B swap. and then read why people continue to blow up their 2 rotor engines and then commit ultimate automotive adultery and go to a Chevy small block. people aren't making reliable 500 rwhp on a stock setup. the rx7 is no more a tuner wunderkind than the money you want to spend into it, period. buy it or don't buy it, but be informed before calling me someone a liar.

look, i'm the biggest mazdaknut out there, and everyone knows that. but i've worked with them long enough, put parts on them long enough, seen them blow up and blow off doors, sold them, serviced them log enough with cylinders or triangles to be a realist. if you read what i said, you'd understand that. i love the car, love the brand, love the way the cars drive. but i also know the strengths and weaknesses, and so do many other people, which is why you see alot more cars from other brands getting the aftermarket attention that they do. it makes it more challenging for our crowd, and frankly i like that. it makes it all that more rewarding when real breakthroughs are made and real big numbers are reliably achieved.

Well mine will stay stock at any rate. I guess I should get a honda for my next car then and push some real power.(dunno)

[Captain KRM P5]

Well mine will stay stock at any rate. I guess I should get a honda for my next car then and push some real power.(dunno)

there are ways to tune the car, definitely some ways better than others. and if its done right from day one, thats really essential. its not as easy as it is on other platforms and the results aren't always comparable to what you might see with the same part on another car. but there is potential for reliable power for people who want to take the time, the right approach and be willing to spend the appropriate amount for quality reliable results.

if i came across extremely pissed off, its nothing personal, believe me.

[speed3guy]

It won't be long before we start seeing 400whp+ MS3's and MS6's as commonly as 300whp+ proteges are around here. Just have to get over a few humps or casualties to figure out its limits and time to upgrade...$$$$$!

I was just about to say this.. word for word. I think a lot of people are forgetting that the car has only been out for a couple years now. Sooner than later.. big things will happen for the car just like they did for the Protege and Protege 5! Getting frustrated and trading the car in cause youve hit a few snags along the way is just that... frustrating!

[BillTheCat]

I had a 400+whp Supra (MKIII/7MGTE) back in the day, and I kinda got that out of my system. Cost a lot of money, replacing several head gaskets & fully building the motor from the crank up after all was said & done. I have no delusions that all of my power mods didn't contribute to the head gasket failures & eventual need for a rebuild. (There was a definite problem with head/gasket design from Toyota, but that's another story)

You gotta pay to play. Period.

My last car was a stock 170hp (crank hp) MINI Cooper S. I spent a number of thousands modding it, eventually ran about 190whp, probably 220-230 crank. Was a lot of fun to drive. But one of the reasons I traded it in was that I knew I was pushing the engine a bit compared to what it was designed for. Reliability was going to suffer.

So I chose the MS3 partially because, even though it is heavier than the MCS, it also has an unmodded power to weight ratio similar to my modded MCS. Am I still tempted to mod the MS3? Somewhat, but I also paid good money for an extended warranty (100k/7 years), so I have motivation to leave it stock.

I absolutely believe that any engine should be overbuilt at stock specs, and therfore able to handle some modification. And I don't knock anyone for modding a car, especially if it is a car already built for power/speed. But when you get into serious mods like bigger turbos, you are rolling the dice.

From the minute you start overboosting the engine on stock internals, every second you spend in high boost/high load situations is weakening the crank, rods, bearings, etc. After enough abuse, you can throw a rod at idle. I've seen it happen, firsthand.

So the OP has now encountered a situation that should drive this lesson home. Is the MS3 engine a POS? I haven't done tons of research, but I did a good bit before I purchased mine and I feel cofortable saying that it is likely a fairly reliable powerplant.

I think the OP is very fortunate if the dealer replaces his engine under warranty, and more power to him if that's the case. On the other hand, if Mazda sends some sort of inspector out & decides that the mods went too far, I don't think there's much room to cry foul, either. It'd be a shame to see anyone suffer that kind of loss, though, and I don't wish this on him.

Just everyone remember... you gotta pay to play. Take shortcuts or cut corners, and they will come back to haunt you eventually. Have fun with your rides, but plan your mods carefully and remember that no engine is unbreakable if you drive it hard enough.

[i12drivemyMP5]

^^^^ Let's see who attempts an argument with this.........that should be rich.

[FrequentFlyer]

if i remember right most people that are blowing stock motors are people going WOT at like 60MPH or less in six gear, i forgot the exact terminology that was being used, but something along the lines that the car was building boost but nowhere for it to go.... any way, glad the dealer is covering it

This really isn't good for any turbocharged motor. This causes a lot of pressure on the rods since you're in an overdrive gear with the weight of the car pushing up on the bottom end of the rods and high cylinder pressures pushing down on the top end at 15+ psi boost. There should be no reason to be WOT in 6th gear unless you're doing 140+ mph. In an N/A car, not such a big deal. This is like riding a 10 speed bike in 10th gear at a slow speed. Try to accelerate and where are you going? Nowhere. What's burning? You're legs! The rods are equivalent to your legs. I know this car accelerates pretty damn well in 6th gear, but that doesn't mean it's good for the car. I always downshift, at least to 5th if I'm going to go WOT. I'm not afraid of RPM. My previous two cars were Hondas, S2000 and an RSX Type S. Short stroke motors that loved RPM. Being at 2k RPM going WOT in the MS3 is putting more stress on this motor than being at 4k and going WOT. This turbo will make boost at 1.5-2k RPM. Not 15psi, but it will make boost and trying to accelerate from such a low RPM in the wrong gear is not good. Honda's rods are not necessarily made stronger, but they're at an advantage with a shorter stroke. Although I do believe Honda's new 2.3 turbo in the RDX has a longer stroke than our DISI's do.

The margin for error with a turbocharged engine is a lot more narrow. If you think about the amount of power these little motors are making, it's pretty impressive. 10-15 years ago we were lucky to see turbocharged V6's making near 300hp at the crank from factory and now we're doing it with a 2.3L and an SRI. This is why I'm not going any further than my SRI, ETS topmount and inlet. I'd much rather work on the suspension from now on. This car is plenty fast in the straight line for me.

Does anyone think the possibility of wheelhop putting stress on the rods?

[DaleNixon]

I think we need a howto guide on driving this car fast. You get magazine reviews bragging about how it has so much low end torque you don't even need to downshift to exit a corner sometimes. Then you have people on forums bragging about how awesome a "6th gear pull" is even at 50MPH.

Now I'm reading those things are absolutely terrible for the engine. On the highway, if I'm cruising at 50+ in 6th and i get an opportunity to open it up, I usually drop to 5th and give it hell. Should I be going 6th to 4th? Would that be better for the engine?

I also get confused about cruising gears. If I'm in a long stretch of cop-infested 35MPH speed limit road (like I encounter every day on the way home from work), should I keep it in 5th for the low speed cruise or 6th?

Sorry I've strayed off topic, but this car seems to have a set of different rules as far as how to handle driving it, and everyone has their different methods.

I usually shift at around 3 to 3.5k when I want to save some gas... even under hard acceleration to the speed limit. I guess I need to bump that up to 4 or 4.5k for hard acceleration to make it easier on the engine.

[eg6motion]

I think the OP is very fortunate if the dealer replaces his engine under warranty, and more power to him if that's the case. On the other hand, if Mazda sends some sort of inspector out & decides that the mods went too far, I don't think there's much room to cry foul, either. It'd be a shame to see anyone suffer that kind of loss, though, and I don't wish this on him.

Just everyone remember... you gotta pay to play. Take shortcuts or cut corners, and they will come back to haunt you eventually. Have fun with your rides, but plan your mods carefully and remember that no engine is unbreakable if you drive it hard enough.

(mswerd)
nicely put.



Now I'm reading those things are absolutely terrible for the engine. On the highway, if I'm cruising at 50+ in 6th and i get an opportunity to open it up, I usually drop to 5th and give it hell. Should I be going 6th to 4th? Would that be better for the engine?


Im confused to. I have heard the same thing but have yet to find or see anyone provide facts on why its worse. Especially considering its common practice on a super-charged vehicle to not downshift in similar top gear passing situations... The difference obviously is the supercharger vs turbo, but the engine dynamics would be the same....boost at low RPM. Coming from Honda tuning I guess I am also still under the impression that higher RPM is still more stress than low RPM, all other factors being equal (ie, boost psi).

[FrequentFlyer]

I think we need a howto guide on driving this car fast. You get magazine reviews bragging about how it has so much low end torque you don't even need to downshift to exit a corner sometimes. Then you have people on forums bragging about how awesome a "6th gear pull" is even at 50MPH.

Now I'm reading those things are absolutely terrible for the engine. On the highway, if I'm cruising at 50+ in 6th and i get an opportunity to open it up, I usually drop to 5th and give it hell. Should I be going 6th to 4th? Would that be better for the engine?

I also get confused about cruising gears. If I'm in a long stretch of cop-infested 35MPH speed limit road (like I encounter every day on the way home from work), should I keep it in 5th for the low speed cruise or 6th?

Sorry I've strayed off topic, but this car seems to have a set of different rules as far as how to handle driving it, and everyone has their different methods.

I usually shift at around 3 to 3.5k when I want to save some gas... even under hard acceleration to the speed limit. I guess I need to bump that up to 4 or 4.5k for hard acceleration to make it easier on the engine.

The main thing is coming out of the overdrive gear, 6th, into a roughly 1:1 (5th) at high loads, which will reduce the stress on the motor. Depending on speed, 4th may be better, since 1st through 4th have a final drive of 3.941 vs. 3.350 for 5th and 6th. At 50-60mph, I would probably go to 4th if I were wanting to get on it hard. This is not to say you shouldn't be passing in 6th at part throttle/low boost because that should be an issue.

[FrequentFlyer]

(mswerd)
nicely put.



Im confused to. I have heard the same thing but have yet to find or see anyone provide facts on why its worse. Especially considering its common practice on a super-charged vehicle to not downshift in similar top gear passing situations... The difference obviously is the supercharger vs turbo, but the engine dynamics would be the same....boost at low RPM. Coming from Honda tuning I guess I am also still under the impression that higher RPM is still more stress than low RPM, all other factors being equal (ie, boost psi).

Supercharged motors are not going to overboost because their boost control is RPM dependent, so at low RPM/high loads, a SC motor is not going to get boost spike.

[F430TECH]

In another thread I had someone try to argue me down on how brake boosting isnt bad for the engine. I think its terrible for the engine.

Could this be the cause of some of the boom booms too?

opinions?

[daonly1around]

In another thread I had someone try to argue me down on how brake boosting isnt bad for the engine. I think its terrible for the engine.

Could this be the cause of some of the boom booms too?

opinions?

i think most of the people break boosting are in the Cx-7's correct?

[Aricjm15]

people "brake boost" while rolling on the highway so their turbo is already spooled by the 3rd honk. So not only is it hard on the motor it is hard on just about everything else. Not to mention how safe it is getting your brakes stupid just before you blast off like an idiot.

[FMOS Racing]

I tried to buy my car without a warranty. I hope it breaks sitting at a stoplight one day, or pulling into the garage, or whatever. I'll probably dance a jig and then put together a decent rotating assembly for it.

I'll probably end up with one that survives like my old SHO, or my Probe GT, or my TDI Jetta. Freakin' anvils that I can't break and thus I can never justify modding...

The only reason boost at low RPM is problem is if the tune doesn't compensate for it. Timing has to be reduced drastically under high boost/low rpm conditions. Boost pressure is nothing compared to cylinder pressure at peak power. Rods are stronger in compression than they are in tension and typically rod failure comes from over-revving in a properly tuned engine. You're more likely to hurt something from RPM which will cause a rod to snap than you are from cylinder pressure unless you're detonating. And even then you're more likely to punch a hole in the top of a piston than you are to "banana" a rod.

I also have to second what Captain is saying. People like to get caught up with how "well engineered" a Supra motor or Cobra motor is because you can make 1000 hp on the stock parts. The engineer in me says, "That's lousy engineering!" A well engineered motor survives at its design requirement, plus some reasonable percentage. It's a complete waste of money for a company to build an engine that can survive at three times design. So, from an engineering standpoint, it's the equivalent of using a shotgun to catch a goldfish.

[jbiird317]

I also have to second what Captain is saying. People like to get caught up with how "well engineered" a Supra motor or Cobra motor is because you can make 1000 hp on the stock parts. The engineer in me says, "That's lousy engineering!" A well engineered motor survives at its design requirement, plus some reasonable percentage. It's a complete waste of money for a company to build an engine that can survive at three times design. So, from an engineering standpoint, it's the equivalent of using a shotgun to catch a goldfish.

Thats too funny, I can almost imagine my engineer friend screaming that at me.

[NYSP33D3]

What we have here is a new car with a couple of kinks what need to be worked out. So we got a guy running a 3071r with 20 pounds of boost and no "proper" tune. mazda's covering him under warranty and he can start again. I want a high HP set up.. at least 350+hp. Im totally aware that the Speed3 is a handling and track car but it is nce to have that power to put the beats on competoter's cars liek STi's and Evo's... I think with forged rods and replacing all your engine mounts plus the fuel pump.. you have a great platform to work with. the 3071r is a BIG turbo. maybe 20 pounds was just TOO much (beer)

[djthom]

A well engineered motor survives at its design requirement, plus some reasonable percentage. It's a complete waste of money for a company to build an engine that can survive at three times design.

The Lean Six Sigma is strong with this one!

If the customer isn't paying for it and you are still doing it...its WASTE.

before the "but I would pay for it" peeps chime in, in this situation customer = average joe car buyer.

[Rotus8]

The optomist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is too big".

[xtrememps]

I had a 400+whp Supra (MKIII/7MGTE) back in the day, and I kinda got that out of my system. Cost a lot of money, replacing several head gaskets & fully building the motor from the crank up after all was said & done. I have no delusions that all of my power mods didn't contribute to the head gasket failures & eventual need for a rebuild. (There was a definite problem with head/gasket design from Toyota, but that's another story)

You gotta pay to play. Period.

My last car was a stock 170hp (crank hp) MINI Cooper S. I spent a number of thousands modding it, eventually ran about 190whp, probably 220-230 crank. Was a lot of fun to drive. But one of the reasons I traded it in was that I knew I was pushing the engine a bit compared to what it was designed for. Reliability was going to suffer.

So I chose the MS3 partially because, even though it is heavier than the MCS, it also has an unmodded power to weight ratio similar to my modded MCS. Am I still tempted to mod the MS3? Somewhat, but I also paid good money for an extended warranty (100k/7 years), so I have motivation to leave it stock.

I absolutely believe that any engine should be overbuilt at stock specs, and therfore able to handle some modification. And I don't knock anyone for modding a car, especially if it is a car already built for power/speed. But when you get into serious mods like bigger turbos, you are rolling the dice.

From the minute you start overboosting the engine on stock internals, every second you spend in high boost/high load situations is weakening the crank, rods, bearings, etc. After enough abuse, you can throw a rod at idle. I've seen it happen, firsthand.

So the OP has now encountered a situation that should drive this lesson home. Is the MS3 engine a POS? I haven't done tons of research, but I did a good bit before I purchased mine and I feel cofortable saying that it is likely a fairly reliable powerplant.

I think the OP is very fortunate if the dealer replaces his engine under warranty, and more power to him if that's the case. On the other hand, if Mazda sends some sort of inspector out & decides that the mods went too far, I don't think there's much room to cry foul, either. It'd be a shame to see anyone suffer that kind of loss, though, and I don't wish this on him.

Just everyone remember... you gotta pay to play. Take shortcuts or cut corners, and they will come back to haunt you eventually. Have fun with your rides, but plan your mods carefully and remember that no engine is unbreakable if you drive it hard enough.

Great post. I couldn't agree more.

[robin2660]

I tried to buy my car without a warranty. I hope it breaks sitting at a stoplight one day, or pulling into the garage, or whatever. I'll probably dance a jig and then put together a decent rotating assembly for it.

I'll probably end up with one that survives like my old SHO, or my Probe GT, or my TDI Jetta. Freakin' anvils that I can't break and thus I can never justify modding...

The only reason boost at low RPM is problem is if the tune doesn't compensate for it. Timing has to be reduced drastically under high boost/low rpm conditions. Boost pressure is nothing compared to cylinder pressure at peak power. Rods are stronger in compression than they are in tension and typically rod failure comes from over-revving in a properly tuned engine. You're more likely to hurt something from RPM which will cause a rod to snap than you are from cylinder pressure unless you're detonating. And even then you're more likely to punch a hole in the top of a piston than you are to "banana" a rod.

I also have to second what Captain is saying. People like to get caught up with how "well engineered" a Supra motor or Cobra motor is because you can make 1000 hp on the stock parts. The engineer in me says, "That's lousy engineering!" A well engineered motor survives at its design requirement, plus some reasonable percentage. It's a complete waste of money for a company to build an engine that can survive at three times design. So, from an engineering standpoint, it's the equivalent of using a shotgun to catch a goldfish.

Without a doubt, the best post in this thread.

[MS3Buckeye]

So where are all of these pics you say your going to post OP? The pin and the "stock" MS3s with blown motors at the dealership.

Mods or no mods I think it is safe to say that a blown engine is rare, and you are talking like every time you go to the dealership there is another one with a blown engine.

That sounds a little exaggerated to me.

I would not be surprised if this doesn't end up getting fixed under warranty after Mazda takes a look, and I don't mean the tech at the dealership.

[Betelgeuse]

My guess is the op removed all mods before hitting the dealer. I just don't see Mazda covering the vehicle with those mods.

I'm heading for 45k and she's still going strong(knock on wood). Light mods though... probably has a lot to do with it.

[blackmica08]

So where are all of these pics you say your going to post OP? The pin and the "stock" MS3s with blown motors at the dealership.

Mods or no mods I think it is safe to say that a blown engine is rare, and you are talking like every time you go to the dealership there is another one with a blown engine.

That sounds a little exaggerated to me.

I would not be surprised if this doesn't end up getting fixed under warranty after Mazda takes a look, and I don't mean the tech at the dealership.

oops another hater, i only said there were two blown engines at the dealer, and the pin is from my car, i will post the pic later on but they are a couple guys here that know me and know the dealer i go to, they can go themselves and check for themselves.

[jam_asian85]

Pics:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4227595&posted=1#post4227595