any runners here?

[neg.split]

anyone else run? whether for fitness, for fun, to race, or whatever reason?

[speed1016]

yep. I still run every now and then. Even when nothings chasing me. I enjoyed running in the Army

[neg.split]

also, if anyone has a nikeplus profile, we could set up some individual or team challenges.

[EDM6-zoom zoom]

I am to fat to run. I will probaly run down the driveway and get tierd.

[coyfish]

I ran 2 marathons and 2 half marathons over the last 2 years. Recently I have been training for a triathlon. I love cardio :).

[eszoom]

used to run, 20 years ago. had to give up running or golf when my son was born. 7 marathons, 6 half marathons, numerous 15k's 10k's and 5k's, 2 tinman triathalons. even did a boulder boulder 10k! all this 25 lbs ago. now i just jog... slowly...

[coyfish]

Yeh I decided to do traithlons instead of marathons. I love running but its terrible for your bones / joints.

[lil_red_wagon]

i used to run. i actually had a really good mile time, but now i wouldn't run if a lion was chasing me.

[neg.split]

i just started running about a year ago for fitness. i didnt start running seriously and racing until about 3 months ago. i know its bad for my joints, but I suck at swimming and i never got into biking, so a triathlon is not something i consider feasible right now.

thats cool to see we have some experienced marathoners on here. im sure ill be asking for pointers. Ill be running my first in may and attempting to qualify for the boston marathon in the process.

i actually ran my 2nd 5k yesterday. i beat my previous personal best by :50 which i set in september in my first 5k. i feel im progressing well in the last few months ive been training. i wasnt expecting to knock that much time off from my previous race.

[coyfish]

Thats great man. I can help you with whatever you need. As with most things, running varies on the individual and its a trial and error process to find the patterns that work best for you.

A heart rate monitor would be a good investment if you dont have one.

Also I hope your running with the proper technique. I still see a lot of runners heelstriking which is suprising.

Good luck !

[blueprotegelx]

I've been trying to get into running again! I usually do it for staying in shape about 3 miles every other day per se. Starting couple months ago I tried running more but since it's getting towards the end of the semester an abundance of work has fallen on me and now finals are coming up, and I just got a cold from going running in the cold the other night and I have asthma so the cold air got into my lungs and stirred everything up so I've lost out on running. I did a 5k race on campus and ran in about 23 min. I plan on doing another 5k in a couple weeks if i can recover and get into the gym for some serious training. Hoping to do the Cincinnatti, Ohio Flying pig half marathon on May 3rd.

[tracknfield423]

i ran in high school and i run for a D1 college right now. . . don't ever plan on doing a marathon 10k is the longest i'll go and thats in xc 5k is the longest i'll go on the track. just a question on the "proper technique" unless you're a sprinter or middle distance you do heel strike. . . imagine how much strain would be on your calves if you ran on your toes for 5 miles

[blueprotegelx]

i ran in high school and i run for a D1 college right now. . . don't ever plan on doing a marathon 10k is the longest i'll go and thats in xc 5k is the longest i'll go on the track. just a question on the "proper technique" unless you're a sprinter or middle distance you do heel strike. . . imagine how much strain would be on your calves if you ran on your toes for 5 miles

i used to be a sprinter in high school and i was use to being on my toes all the time. i also did cross country. so when both seasons came up it was awkward, b/c once track ended i was used to running on my toes for 400 and 800 i then had to conform to XC running once track ended and vice verse. when working out i try to convert myself when doing sprints and when doing long runs...sometimes i forget ha! since i just started again i'm trying to work on my pace which is killing me. the last 5k i ran a 6 min first mile, considering i do not run all the time it killed me the last two, but i figure a 23 min 5k for the first time in 6 years is not bad. haha

[coyfish]

Lots of controversy on proper foot strike even now but 60% of people seem to agree for middle to long distance running it is best to strike with the upper portion of foot (ball). You either put pressure on your calves or pound your bones and joints if you heel strike. Not to mention its faster / more efficient to strike with the ball of your foot instead of heel.

If you are a heelstriker and try to change to the other method than it may be hard at first. Your legs will be VERY sore after but give it 5-6 runs and your body will get used to it. Just use logic and think about the pressure you put on your bones when you strike with your heel. The force goes right up through all your major bones and up your spine. Then compare it to striking with the ball of your foot. The force is more evenly spread out and there is less friction leading to less energy expenditure. It feels MUCH softer. You also develop more leg muscle. The main reason why heel striking is bad is because of the pressure it puts on your bones.

I am bias towards heal striking because it caused a nasty stress fracture in my leg that took a year to heal.

That being said, everyone is different. Everyone's bodies and muscles are shaped differently and for some, maybe heel striking is less injury prone than striking with the ball of the foot. The best technique of running is that which feels best for you. Just make sure you give both techniques a proper try.

Very nice article here that shows all aspects of running technique
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/04/running-technique-footstrike.html

[blueprotegelx]

Lots of controversy on proper foot strike even now but 60% of people seem to agree for middle to long distance running it is best to strike with the upper portion of foot (ball). You either put pressure on your calves or pound your bones and joints if you heel strike. Not to mention its faster / more efficient to strike with the ball of your foot instead of heel.

If you are a heelstriker and try to change to the other method than it may be hard at first. Your legs will be VERY sore after but give it 5-6 runs and your body will get used to it. Just use logic and think about the pressure you put on your bones when you strike with your heel. The force goes right up through all your major bones and up your spine. Then compare it to striking with the ball of your foot. The force is more evenly spread out and there is less friction leading to less energy expenditure. It feels MUCH softer. You also develop more leg muscle. The main reason why heel striking is bad is because of the pressure it puts on your bones.

I am bias towards heal striking because it caused a nasty stress fracture in my leg that took a year to heal.

That being said, everyone is different. Everyone's bodies and muscles are shaped differently and for some, maybe heel striking is less injury prone than striking with the ball of the foot. The best technique of running is that which feels best for you. Just make sure you give both techniques a proper try.

Very nice article here that shows all aspects of running technique
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/04/running-technique-footstrike.html

I actually agree with everything you have to say! The only time I use heel striking movements is usually on jogs and on soft territory, and when fatigued. haha. I have actually have developed bad knees, and I am only 23. After much analysis I thought may be it was from running on sidewalks, but after reading your post I may believe it may be due to heel striking. I will have to investigate this further. I know the way the foot lands is a primary error among many athletes. For my PHE 212 class (Injury and Care Management) I have been doing annotated bibliographies on Knee injuries among runners. The last article I read, (day before) actually spoke about supination vs pronation, heel striking vs ball of the foot striking, surfaces, as well as the shoes trained in. There are a lot of theories out there....

[coyfish]

Yeah shoes have been researched for ages. What suprises me is how long it took for people to start reseraching foot technique. Training for marathons and running long distance is terrible for the joints, muslces, and bones. The best technique is really whatever prevents injury for you. Running on the balls of your feet is definately softer on your body but for some people it still causes achilles tendon / other muscle problems. The same goes for heel striking and knee / bone problems.

I am very interested in seeing what recent studies / research will reveal.

[blkspdfreak]

the marine corps make me run all the time. im not a big fan of it though, you feel great after it but while your running it sucks. its a love hate relationship.

[jbiird317]

hey great to see some other runners on the board! I just ran an 8K yesterday in Philly (0:32:38) and baltimore half marathon last month (1:36:18). I've run 2 marathons and a ton of half marathons as well as a few other smaller races. I'll be celebrating my 25th bday with the shamrock marathon in VA beach this year, and my aunt is trying to talk me into doing a sprint triathalon on memorial day weekend... i'm on nikeplus too, but havent used it in a while, maybe a mazdaforums challenge would inspire me to break it out again.

[blueprotegelx]

how about some of the more experienced runners share some of the running techniques? pace, training, etc? As I mentioned earlier I am trying to get back into running right now. Did a 5k a couple months ago, and I'm doing another on Dec 6 and hoping to improve my time. I feel that I can by finding the right pace alone, but i'm not exactly sure on how to maintain a pace in general I guess.

[coyfish]

I can share with you how I trained for my last 2 marathons. You can read my 1st couple posts about technique. Basically you want to run with loose relaxed posture with your hands to your sides with your head up. Most people don't have trouble with this. Look forward and chest forward like you are being pulled by string.

As for the footstrike I am an advocate of the ball of the foot. It seems like the most balanced place that works best with the body. As I said I am bias because heelstriking caused a stress fracture in my leg that made me quit running for an entire year (extremely hard for me).

Pacing is really up to the individual. You have to trial and error with your body. If you are really serious, I recommend a heart rate monitor. It is more important to focus on your heart rate rather than your time while you train.

I approach almost every aspect of life striving for balance. Running for me was no exception. I ran 5 days a week. I wont tell you my exact times / how long but I will tell you the type of run.

Run 1 - moderate medium pace "average run"
Run 2- 12 Minute HILT sprint training (8 sprints with 30 sec rest)
Run 3- faster shorter run
Run 4- Interval run ( increase / decrease speed during run)
Run 5- "Recovery Run" Very slow very long run keeping heart rate very low

Keep in mind this is what worked best for me. Lots of people prefer other methods but lots of variation is what helped me break through time barriers. The 10 min high intensity training did me wonders cardiovascularly. Like many things sometimes you have your 'days' where you feel like you could run forever. Other times you feel slow and tired. This is another reason why monitoring your HR is so important for long distance runners.

Many people fall into patterns of running the same way over and over and expect increases in distances / better times. This may work to a degree but at least for me, I hit a wall that I could not break around 15 miles. Varying my runs as I described is what broke that barrier.

Good luck !

Edit: I didn't really answer your pace question. Learn about your body and your heart rates. There are some average person charts online but everyone is different. If you don't want to learn about your HR then the way I approached it was just find the pace where you can talk to someone comfotably as you run. IF anything, achieve the distance before you worry about increasing your times. Also make sure you have adequate warm up's , cool downs.

[neg.split]

hey great to see some other runners on the board! I just ran an 8K yesterday in Philly (0:32:38) and baltimore half marathon last month (1:36:18). I've run 2 marathons and a ton of half marathons as well as a few other smaller races. I'll be celebrating my 25th bday with the shamrock marathon in VA beach this year, and my aunt is trying to talk me into doing a sprint triathalon on memorial day weekend... i'm on nikeplus too, but havent used it in a while, maybe a mazdaforums challenge would inspire me to break it out again.


congrats! those are good times. I think you and i might be about the same level of runner. i think we should try to get a nikeplus group and get some challenges together. it would be a great way to motivate and help people stay with a running program through the winter months.

as far as advice, i would highly recommend a book called 'Running for Mortals." it is a great book that provides you with all of the info needed to begin your running quest. it will help you decide what type of running plan is best for you based on your age, fitness level, goals, etc. it has a ton of good info to help you progress into being the runner you want to be.

the only advice i would give you is BE PATIENT. you arent going to go out and start running 6:00 miles the first week, and if you try you are likely headed to injuryville, USA. again, there is som much info i could share, but it would take forever to break it all down. read the book, i guarantee you will find it very helpful and beneficial.

[jbiird317]

awesome, thanks, well if you set up a new challenge I will definitely take part. It's been a while since I've done anything on there but I wouldn't mind starting up again.

My advice to any runner is to mix it up a bit. If you are out there running the same path at the same pace every time, you are going to get bored and not see any improvement.

Over the past year i have made drastic improvements on my times, (over 10 minutes off of my half marathon time, still waiting to see the results on a marathon distance), and I credit it all to speed work. I devoted 2 nights a week to speed workouts and agility training this summer, but not just conventional sprinting. I did things like resistance bands and medicine balls and parachutes. It was a lot of fun and it really helped not only improve my overall fitness, but it also re-energized me to the idea of running.

[jred321]

I just ran an 8K yesterday in Philly (0:32:38)
i was there watching my gf's sister run the marathon. it was her first one. i think she finished around 4:02:00. something like that.

i've been doing more running lately though i wouldn't call myself a runner. in HS i did track but was a sprinter. anything over a 3 mile run was a long training run for me. after that i'd run at the gym every once in a while but nothing serious. this summer i had a bunch of stuff going on - soccer, mountain biking, and softball - so i figured that i'd stop going to the gym and soccer and mountain biking would take care of my staying in shape. towards the end of the soccer season i separated my shoulder in a game and had to take a decent amount of time off. 2 weeks ago i started going to the gym again and instead of the quick 2 miles that i used to do i've been doing longer 3+ mile runs and i feel better at the end of them than i did after the 2 milers. i get to the gym 5 days/week usually so i do ~15 miles on the treadmill every week.

[blueprotegelx]

i just wanted to get on here real quick and ask you guys a quick question? i'm getting ready to head to NY and there's a lot of snow on the ground. thing is, i have asthma and the cold air bothers my lungs. where i am staying they do not have a treadmill, and i need to run as i have a race coming up on the 6th. what do you guys recommend? i mean really i just need something to put over my mouth but i don't really want to wear a ski mask if that makes since....

[neg.split]

awesome, thanks, well if you set up a new challenge I will definitely take part. It's been a while since I've done anything on there but I wouldn't mind starting up again.

My advice to any runner is to mix it up a bit. If you are out there running the same path at the same pace every time, you are going to get bored and not see any improvement.

Over the past year i have made drastic improvements on my times, (over 10 minutes off of my half marathon time, still waiting to see the results on a marathon distance), and I credit it all to speed work. I devoted 2 nights a week to speed workouts and agility training this summer, but not just conventional sprinting. I did things like resistance bands and medicine balls and parachutes. It was a lot of fun and it really helped not only improve my overall fitness, but it also re-energized me to the idea of running.

i completely agree about incorporating speedwork into your training. i incorporated some sort of tempo run or repeats once or twice a week for the last 2 months and i knocked :50 seconds off of my 5k time and 1:54 off of my 10k time in the span of 9 weeks.
i would also recommend adding strength training. you dont need to lift large heavy weights. the last thing you want to do as a runner is bulk up and carry extra weight, but strengthening your body, especially the core, will help you see improved results.
also, i cannot stress the importance of rest. its hard to take a day or two off when you are used to running everyday, but you MUST give your body a chance to rest. without taking rest days, you arent doing anything except increasing your chance of suffering an injury, especially if you are new to running. taking one or two beneficial days off is a much better option than being forced to take a few weeks off from an injury.

[neg.split]

i just wanted to get on here real quick and ask you guys a quick question? i'm getting ready to head to NY and there's a lot of snow on the ground. thing is, i have asthma and the cold air bothers my lungs. where i am staying they do not have a treadmill, and i need to run as i have a race coming up on the 6th. what do you guys recommend? i mean really i just need something to put over my mouth but i don't really want to wear a ski mask if that makes since....

you can use anything to cover your nose and mouth. i used a bandana last week when it was 15 degrees in the morning. i would recommend covering up since you have asthma. it way be uncomfortable, but the alternative is possibly suffering from a cold-induced asthma attack while you are out running alone. covering up helps warm and humidify the air before you breath it in.

[coyfish]

Wish I could run in the morning. I dont know what it is but im just not a morning person. I run like crap in the morning. At night on the other hand, shit I never get tired. Sucks that all the races are in the mornings (at least the ones ive been in).

[jbiird317]

Wish I could run in the morning. I dont know what it is but im just not a morning person. I run like crap in the morning. At night on the other hand, shit I never get tired. Sucks that all the races are in the mornings (at least the ones ive been in).

plus the cold and dark at night kinda suck.

[coyfish]

plus the cold and dark at night kinda suck.

Good point but I live in florida so it never gets that cold.

[jbiird317]

Good point but I live in florida so it never gets that cold.

ahh you bastard. winter running in the north is brutal because its cold, but it sucks everywhere because you have to really plan it into your day. Tonight for example, I worked until 530, got home at 6, then needed to fit a five mile run in. Problem is that its realllllly dark at 6 pm and my normal running route doesnt have too many streetlights. It got a bit scary at some points, if i didnt know the roads it couldve been much worse

[neg.split]

im not much of a morning person either, but its the only time of day i have a chance to run. most mornings i feel like crap and dont want to run, but i always feel worse if i DONT run.

has anyone tried athlinks.com? i googled my name to see if i could find my results from a half marathon from last year and i came across this site that had my results for all the races ive run. it was pretty cool to have all of my official results in one place (even if ive only ran a couple of races).

[jbiird317]

im not much of a morning person either, but its the only time of day i have a chance to run. most mornings i feel like crap and dont want to run, but i always feel worse if i DONT run.

has anyone tried athlinks.com? i googled my name to see if i could find my results from a half marathon from last year and i came across this site that had my results for all the races ive run. it was pretty cool to have all of my official results in one place (even if ive only ran a couple of races).

yeah athlinks is pretty cool, its great to see improvement or decline in performance over the years. For me its strange though because i have to find the results in 2 different names. My legal name is Jonathan but I go by Jay and I guess depending on my mood of the day I've signed up for races with both.

[mysleeper6]

Hey. Old guy here (42), but I still run pretty well. Unfortunately I've got mono (yes you can get it more than once---you always carry it and it can reactivate). Anyway, I was a 4:20 miler in high school and ran an 8:40 3000m indoors my freshman year of college then started getting stress fractures and never really did anything too spectacular after that. I've run 3 half-marathons in under 1:18 (at age 16, 26, and 35...hey I'm due to be in good shape again at 45!) but never a marathon. My plan is to get over this mono, then start up reasonably, and try to go under 3 hours for 26.2.The problem is I always overtrain.

I saw someone mention heartrate monitors earlier...they are useless to me. I have to train using PE (perceived effort, 1 to 10 scale) because my heartrate, even at 42 can still go above 200, when theoretically it should be 178 (220-age), so if I stay in my "zone" I'm doing like 10 minute miles, when I can with little effort train at less than 8 minutes per, but with a high heart rate. Just weird, I guess.

[jred321]

i tried the running on my toes thing the other day on the treadmill. i started trying it while just jogging at like 7mph during my warmup and that didn't go well. i felt like i was stopping my forward momentum with every step. when i got above 8mph it started to feel a little better and i imagine the faster you go the better it feels. i still wasn't a big fan though

[blueprotegelx]

i tried the running on my toes thing the other day on the treadmill. i started trying it while just jogging at like 7mph during my warmup and that didn't go well. i felt like i was stopping my forward momentum with every step. when i got above 8mph it started to feel a little better and i imagine the faster you go the better it feels. i still wasn't a big fan though

i usually change my positions according to the way i run. I feel more comfortable running heel to toe motion under 7 and 8 depending on how i feel, when doing sprints or moderately quick pace i land on my toes. i think everybodie's body is different. as mentioned before, however feels most comfortable to you!

[jbiird317]

Hey. Old guy here (42), but I still run pretty well. Unfortunately I've got mono (yes you can get it more than once---you always carry it and it can reactivate). Anyway, I was a 4:20 miler in high school and ran an 8:40 3000m indoors my freshman year of college then started getting stress fractures and never really did anything too spectacular after that. I've run 3 half-marathons in under 1:18 (at age 16, 26, and 35...hey I'm due to be in good shape again at 45!) but never a marathon. My plan is to get over this mono, then start up reasonably, and try to go under 3 hours for 26.2.The problem is I always overtrain.



That is quite impressive! And a tough goal to boot! First marathon under 3 hours could be a challenge. At some point it becomes less physical and more mental, so if you have that part mastered you should be ok. As for overtraining, I absolutely no what you mean, for my next race (shamrock marathon, VA beach) I am picking a training program and sticking to it, no more "oh, I could run a few more miles today..."

[coyfish]

i tried the running on my toes thing the other day on the treadmill. i started trying it while just jogging at like 7mph during my warmup and that didn't go well. i felt like i was stopping my forward momentum with every step. when i got above 8mph it started to feel a little better and i imagine the faster you go the better it feels. i still wasn't a big fan though

Its always tough to start this new method for your first time, especially on a treadmill. Im not sure where you live but you definately need to practice on some normal ground first. Also make sure you are striking with the ball of your foot instead of your toes. You want to touch the ground with the middle of your foot, not so much your toes. If you do it properly there is less friction than if you were to strike with your heel. When you hit with your heel, the back of your foot is striking the pavement in the opposite direction of the pavement. When you strike with your midfoot, you land more on top of the pavement with less friction. My guess is that you were running too far on your toes. Once you got faster you started running more on the midfoot like you do when you sprint. Just think about how you sprint for a minute and where your foot lands. . . Right on the ball of the foot.

Give the new method a 4 or 5 runs before you call it quits:).

good luck

[neg.split]

Hey. Old guy here (42), but I still run pretty well. Unfortunately I've got mono (yes you can get it more than once---you always carry it and it can reactivate). Anyway, I was a 4:20 miler in high school and ran an 8:40 3000m indoors my freshman year of college then started getting stress fractures and never really did anything too spectacular after that. I've run 3 half-marathons in under 1:18 (at age 16, 26, and 35...hey I'm due to be in good shape again at 45!) but never a marathon. My plan is to get over this mono, then start up reasonably, and try to go under 3 hours for 26.2.The problem is I always overtrain.

I saw someone mention heartrate monitors earlier...they are useless to me. I have to train using PE (perceived effort, 1 to 10 scale) because my heartrate, even at 42 can still go above 200, when theoretically it should be 178 (220-age), so if I stay in my "zone" I'm doing like 10 minute miles, when I can with little effort train at less than 8 minutes per, but with a high heart rate. Just weird, I guess.

very impressive times. i can only hope to run that well one day. i have the same problem with overtraining and constantly pushing myself. the hardest part of running for me is being patient. its difficult to run at a 7:30 or 8:00 pace when the training log says to do so because i dont feel like im getting that good of a workout. i always have to remind myself to hold back and not to push harder when im suppose to be on an 'easy run.' my other problem is that i hate taking days off even though i know how vital they are to the training. i guess its just the constant thoughts of always feeling like i could run faster or longer.

also, a more accurate way to determine maximum heart rate is to subtract half your age from 205. in your case 42/2=21; 205-21=184. this still does you no good since you can get your heart rate over 200. i just thought id throw that out there for others to know.

[mysleeper6]

I hadn't heard that method. As far as determining zones, are you familiar with the Karvonen reserve method? It takes your (theoretical or actual) maximal heart rate and subtracts your resting rate. Then you take a percentage (say 70%) of that and add it back onto your resting rate. The result is a higher number at the top of your zone than just taking a percentage of your maximal , but even that doesn't help me. I'll probably just explode one day.

[blueprotegelx]

Did a 5k this morning...Results are not up yet but i'm pretty sure it was a whole minute faster which was pretty impressive considering there was about a half inch of snow on the ground and seemed like i was using most of my energy up as I was sliding. I'm pretty sure when I finished it was 22 something, it might have been 21. Not to bad considering I just started training again! Guess my training is doing me well! Here's some pics:
http://photos-d.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v889/15/4/695043859/n695043859_1130195_9731.jpg

http://photos-e.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v889/15/4/695043859/n695043859_1130196_9927.jpg

[neg.split]

I hadn't heard that method. As far as determining zones, are you familiar with the Karvonen reserve method? It takes your (theoretical or actual) maximal heart rate and subtracts your resting rate. Then you take a percentage (say 70%) of that and add it back onto your resting rate. The result is a higher number at the top of your zone than just taking a percentage of your maximal , but even that doesn't help me. I'll probably just explode one day.

its funny you should mention that. i was just reading about that last week.

[neg.split]

Did a 5k this morning...Results are not up yet but i'm pretty sure it was a whole minute faster which was pretty impressive considering there was about a half inch of snow on the ground and seemed like i was using most of my energy up as I was sliding. I'm pretty sure when I finished it was 22 something, it might have been 21. Not to bad considering I just started training again! Guess my training is doing me well! Here's some pics:
http://photos-d.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v889/15/4/695043859/n695043859_1130195_9731.jpg

http://photos-e.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v889/15/4/695043859/n695043859_1130196_9927.jpg

thats awesome! i wish i had action shots like that.

[blueprotegelx]

thats awesome! i wish i had action shots like that.

yeah their awesome! i want to get one with both feet in the air instead of one striking the ground or leaving the ground. ha.

i really need a program to improve my time more! someone please help! ha.

[coyfish]

Sprint training did me wonders. If you read through the post I wrote what I did when training for my last marathon. Do it properly 1 time a week and you will cut your time down guaranteed.

[neg.split]

i concur. incorporate speed training at least once per week will help significantly.

[mysleeper6]

i concur. incorporate speed training at least once per week will help significantly.

Definitely. But make sure you have a good distance base first.

[blueprotegelx]

i think by ignoring is what has hurt me. i usually just jog on the treadmill or ride the bike 2-3 times a week. i found my results on racedmc.com. i ran a 22:27, and the first race I ran month and a half ago was 22:54; thought my first race was slower but it was not.

[coyfish]

Definitely. But make sure you have a good distance base first.

Not really. Sprint training will help you in any stage of running from 5K's to marathons. It is the ultimate of cardiovascular workouts. I think you might be confused by speed training meaning just running a bit faster.

Also if you dont go to the gym and do some weights, you should. Im not saying lift for muscle gain, just for strength and endurance training. Low weight and high reps. Legs and abs of course would be most important. You could also do this during you sprint training. During sprint day I would do lunges, high kness, kick foot to your butt (not sure how to explain it), and skip.

Im not a big fan of treadmills but I understand they are the only option for some. try and vary your runs as much as possible. Running the same way everyday won't get you results nearly as fast as switching things up often.

[mysleeper6]

No, I am adamant that if you are returning from an injury or starting a training program, that until you give your body the chance to make the physiological adaptations to running I would not prescribe speedwork. And I'm not talking about a tempo run, I'm talking about 12 x 400m with a 200 jog between. I avoid speedwork until I've got a month under my belt...but my training pace and distance both increase during that month. Then I throw in some tempo runs, or fartlek before I go hardcore with the speedwork.

I concur on the weights with some plyometrics mixed in.

[neg.split]

speedwork should only be added to your workout once you have built a good running base, otherwise you are risking injuring yourself.

i ran a 5k and a 10k after normal training and my times were 20:40 and 43:01, respectively. after that, i added speedwork once per week and ran another 5k and 10k 2 months later and ran a 19:40 and 41:09, respectively. for me, my speed day is the workout i look forward to the most.

I also agree with the strength training. im not saying to go to the gym and max out on the bench press or do 100 arm curls. the key areas you want to focus on are your legs (obviously) and strengthening your core. not only will a strong core make you faster, but it will make you a more biomechanically efficient runner. As mysleeper6 said plyometrics is another great way to build leg and core strength. i wouldnt recommend doing it until you are well into your training and have built up some leg strength. if you jump right in and do a plyo routine you probably wont be able to walk for a day or two.

[arkenzo]

I run 6 miles every weekday, I average around 58 minutes to complete my run, I normally run with 15 other guys along side of my TAC officer. I joined the academy at 195lbs, right now I'm at 170....

[arkenzo]

did I kill the thread? ....lol

[lanceam24]

running 6 miles a day killed it lol. im kinda sorta a runner. i ran track the past 2 years at a D1 school. well, i jumped (triple jump and long jump) but we ran a whoooooole lot. i also read somewhere that doing short sprints full speed full recovery will get you into better shape than running long distances. all depends o nwhat ur aiming for. the longest distance we ever did at practice 300 meter dashes full speed full recovery


WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk12/lanceam24/melookincrazy.jpg

[coyfish]

I feel you arkenzo. I took a year off running because of a stress fracture and I focused on weighlifting. I decided to start doing triathlons here in florida but I really dont want to lose all my muscle :( Ive seen some triathletes and a few have some solid muscle mass but with my metabolism moving at mach 3 I will end up flat and skinny in 2 months.

[jbiird317]

coyfish - what do you do to keep ur metabolism up? I lift 5 times a week (AM) as well as run 3 or 4 times a week (PM). I've tried a bunch of different supplements, but for someone my size (6'2 215) it takes massive ammounts of anything to make a difference. Any suggestions would be awesome.

side note - did a 5k on friday night, 18:57, 9th place out of 330. Plus a new PR, wooot!

[coyfish]

Its genetics. There are 3 types of people (generally):

Ecotomorph : naturally skinny. hard time gaining weight (ME !)
Mesomorph: in the middle (best bodybuilding body)
Endomorph: naturally heavyset. Hard time dropping weight. Very easy to gain

From what you describe you sound like an endomorph. Anyway, other than the obvious eating healthy I would recommend 2 things.

1st you may already know this but try to eat smaller meals as frequently as possible. When you have something in your stomache it keeps your metabolism moving. I eat about 3500 calories a day and I eat a meal every 3 hours. Just FYI sumo wrestlers only eat 1 time a day. Yes its a HUGE meal but it goes to show you how they slow down their metabolism. If you don't have time for breakfast just grab a banana or just anything to put in your stomach.

2nd: vary your cardio. Balance in everything is important. Try different excersizes (elyptical, running, biking, swimming). This should help your 5K time as well. Also vary the intensity. Dont always go in and do 30 min of something. Switch it up.

Lastly just a few things that ive picked up after countless hours of researching bodybuilding crap. Make sure your diet is balanced as much as possible. Unsaturated fat (salmon / olive oil) is very important. I drop a tblspn in rice or whatever I eat once daily. Make sure you protein intake isn't too high. Contrary to popular belief you dont need 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. .75 per pound should be good for a weightlifter. I used to down like 3 protein shakes a day which was not good. Cut carb intake after about 7 pm. You can have a little like a fruit, just dont have any pasta, rice, potatoe, or bread. You dont want to digest those carbs when your going to be inactive. Im sure you know what eating healthy is but one of the biggest things you could do is cut the sugary drinks. Cokes, juice, gatorade = empty calories that end up on your gut.

Grats on that 18:57. Thats a good time so your obviosly in good shape. I have never tried hydroxycut or any of that stuff but some friends have. They do work but it is hard on your body so I wouldn't take too much. Hope this helps. Oh and I also drink a lot of green tea with that EeGG stuff that supposedly increases metabolism. I just like it because it tastes good.
Good luck!!

[mysleeper6]

running 6 miles a day killed it lol. im kinda sorta a runner. i ran track the past 2 years at a D1 school. well, i jumped (triple jump and long jump) but we ran a whoooooole lot. i also read somewhere that doing short sprints full speed full recovery will get you into better shape than running long distances. all depends o nwhat ur aiming for. the longest distance we ever did at practice 300 meter dashes full speed full recovery


Jumpers and throwers are freaks. Oh, and sprinters are prima donnas.

Just kidding. Reliving some of the good-natured rivalry the distance guys used to have with everyone else on the team. Everybody knows distance guys work harder than everyone else. (first)

But seriously, yes, speedwork is highly customizable (did I just make up a word?). We by no means did the same workouts at the end of the season as we did at the beginning, and we did do some all-out sprints. Most of our work though was designed to bump right against our anaerobic threshold and then recover quickly. A lot of it was also head work...distance runners tend to get psyched into thinking they can't run as fast as they really can. A good coach will design workouts that convince you that you can in fact maintain a target pace for a given distance by doing shorter (than race distance) reps at race pace or greater.

As for the triple jump, I'm always afraid you guys will just shatter a knee on that landing from the hop to the step. That's just not natural!

[lanceam24]

but once you learn how to do it, it becomes a blast. as for distance, we had some DYNAMITE kenyans. they ran EVERYWHERE; to class, to wal mart lol a couple of em were all americans

[MSpeed68]

Been running 5 days a week for while now. Doing 2 days of weights also. I am doing a Half Marathon in April in OKC. Will be my first one, but I will be ready. I love running.

[arkenzo]

Been running 5 days a week for while now. Doing 2 days of weights also. I am doing a Half Marathon in April in OKC. Will be my first one, but I will be ready. I love running.

How many miles a day

[blueprotegelx]

I would love to do a marathon! do you guys think if i was to increase my runs that i could do a full marathon by may 3. 143 days away...ha. if not i'm going to try and do half marathon atleast.

[coyfish]

I would love to do a marathon! do you guys think if i was to increase my runs that i could do a full marathon by may 3. 143 days away...ha. if not i'm going to try and do half marathon atleast.

I would do a couple half marathons 1st. You don't want to end up injured. I pushed myself too hard and ended up with a stress fracture. In 143 days you could do it (depends on how you are now) but just dont force anything.

[jbiird317]

143 days is plenty of time to prepare, as long as you do it the right way. Runnersworld.com has customizeable training programs that you can adjust to whatever level of runner you are. They are fairly inclusive and I've seen people follow these programs and run their first marathon successfully.

[neg.split]

I just signed up for my first marathon. It will be the Wisconsin Marathon on May 2nd. I just want to qualify for the Boston Marathon, which in my age group is a time of less than 3:10 or 7:15 pace.....ouch.

[jbiird317]

I just signed up for my first marathon. It will be the Wisconsin Marathon on May 2nd. I just want to qualify for the Boston Marathon, which in my age group is a time of less than 3:10 or 7:15 pace.....ouch.

jeez thats pretty ambitious for ur first race, good luck!

[blueprotegelx]

I'm in the same boat man! I can't decide whether I want to do the Flying Pig Full or half marathon. I need to decide now b/c it's 30 dollars cheaper to sign up before Jan 31st. If I do the full marathon I want to try and qualify for Boston. My buddy is hoping to qualify. He did his first a couple months ago and was 5 min off from 3:10.

I'm going to look for a training program to start it now. I have a pretty decent base down. I have ran off and on for past few months.

[neg.split]

jeez thats pretty ambitious for ur first race, good luck!

technically, it isnt my first race, just my first full marathon. ive done some 5 & 10k's and a 24 hour - 200 mile relay race. the first race i ever ran was the 500 festival half marathon last year. i wasnt a runner at the time and entered it on impulse and didnt train much for it. i tend to be over ambitious when it comes to these types of things.

[coyfish]

You think thats bad lol. I just dropped 200 bucks to enter the st. anthony's triathlon. Ive been told its awesome. Better be for 200 dollars. Also have to pay for traithlon yearly registration card which is another 40 bucks :(.

[neg.split]

I have no interest in doing a triathlon. If I was a stronger swimmer, I would consider it but I would get killed in the swimming portion.

btw, I hate snow and winter. The though of moving to a warmer climate has seriously crossed my mind over the last couple of weeks.

[GoFast]

i just start ed running a couple months ago after i quit smoking. i only run a couple miles a few times a week so i am not a hardcore marathon guy. my biggest challenge is still breathing. i mean holy crap at the end of the 2 mile si am dying!!

[jred321]

i ordered an ipod touch monday that i should be getting today. i'm going to get the shoe sensor so i can start tracking my runs to record progress. yesterday i was starting to notice that 30 mins at a 7:30ish pace (treadmill of course, it's cold out) is much easier now than it used to be. sure i still sweat but i don't feel like i'm struggling to finish and recovery after happens pretty quickly. i think i'll start picking up the pace a bit. i wish the treadmills at the gym had decent hill programs so it could more closely simulate a real run. the programs in the treadmill are all awful

[arkenzo]

Yesterday I was running on the treadmill to kill some energy (didn't work that day), I hit 1,200 calories , 7 miles in 63 minutes , I was pacing myself :-D

[jred321]

how did you get 1200 calories? i did 4 miles in 30 mins yesterday and my treadmill told me it was like 4** calories. would have been 8 miles in an hour so 8** calories. stupid treadmills

[arkenzo]

how did you get 1200 calories? i did 4 miles in 30 mins yesterday and my treadmill told me it was like 4** calories. would have been 8 miles in an hour so 8** calories. stupid treadmills

Sorry, it totaled out to be 1176 exactly. On my treadmill, 1 mile = 168 calories, 7x168 = 1176 (2thumbs)

The treadmill at the local gym is very generous compared to my home treadmill. At the gym treadmill it would give me alittle less than 190 calories for 1 mile, at home, 1 mile is 168 (scratch)

[jred321]

the one at my old gym used to ask for age/weight that it used in its calorie calculation. this gym doesn't ask for that. i don't believe those things anyways because of how absurd the eliptical calories get even when it feels like you're not working nearly as hard

[arkenzo]

the one at my old gym used to ask for age/weight that it used in its calorie calculation. this gym doesn't ask for that. i don't believe those things anyways because of how absurd the eliptical calories get even when it feels like you're not working nearly as hard

well, i'm no scientist, but the elliptical machines yield higher calorie burn because you're essentially running with resistance (the pedal load). the more levels you go up on the elliptical, the tougher it is to maintain a certain speed, so it's kind of like squats, you work out your whole legs.


either way, i don't really care about caloric count, as long as i am building up my endurance and stamina, i'm allright (guitar)

[jred321]

i don't care either, i just think it's a made up number that companies use to make people feel better. i judge how much work i do by how sweaty i get. i get way sweatier running than i do on an eliptical but the computed calorie counts don't reflect that

[arkenzo]

i don't care either, i just think it's a made up number that companies use to make people feel better. i judge how much work i do by how sweaty i get. i get way sweatier running than i do on an eliptical but the computed calorie counts don't reflect that

kind of like weight scales lol(boom07)

[tricky]

I ran competitively from junior high through college (cc & track) and then onto marathons. Then I got married and had kids, that pretty much put a halt on my running carrier. I was running everything from 800m to the marathon. I miss it greatly!

I got my brother into running a few yrs back, he went from never running in his life to now doing ultra-marathons. He's hyping them up and now I'm starting to get the itch to do one.

Have you guys ever heard of this one?
The Barkley Marathon (http://www.mattmahoney.net/barkley/)
also found on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkley_Marathons)

call me crazy but I think it'd be awesome!

[jred321]

I ran competitively from junior high through college (cc & track) and then onto marathons. Then I got married and had kids, that pretty much put a halt on my running carrier. I was running everything from 800m to the marathon. I miss it greatly!
isn't that what those strollers with the big wheels are for? :)

Have you guys ever heard of this one?
The Barkley Marathon (http://www.mattmahoney.net/barkley/)
also found on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkley_Marathons)

call me crazy but I think it'd be awesome!
that sounds awful

[jbiird317]

just signed up for the shamrock marathon, VA beach march 22, 2009!

[tricky]

isn't that what those strollers with the big wheels are for? :)



that sounds awful

yep, I've got one, they aren't too bad in the summer but when the combined weight of your kids is 50+ lbs it sucks ass trying to push the damn thing up any kind of hill, yes it may be great resistance training but the bottom line, it still blows! (not to mention the thing is useless in the winter)

lol, I guess I'm crazy cuz I think it's the greatest race in the world.

[coyfish]

i don't care either, i just think it's a made up number that companies use to make people feel better. i judge how much work i do by how sweaty i get. i get way sweatier running than i do on an eliptical but the computed calorie counts don't reflect that

The reasoning is this. Not all calories you burn are fat calories. You burn carbs and sugars as well. Running at a slow pace for extended periods of time yeilds the highest percentage of fat calories burned. This may sound confusing at first. Because the slow pace is easier, you burn LESS calories but a higher % of those calories are fat calories. This is why you see lots of big bodybuilders running very slowly. They want to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle loss.

This however does not mean its best for losing weight because even though the slow pace has higher fat burning, it burns less overall calories. I guess you can do sprints on an elyptical but most do the slow - moderate pace workout which burns more fat. 90% of people on an elyptical are trying to lose weight anyway right :).

[neg.split]

a little tip: when you run on a treadmill, set the incline to 1.0. this is said to make your treadmill runs mimic an outdoor run (effort-wise, anyway). I dont know if anyone else ever noticed, but running on a treadmill at 0 incline feels like im going downhill. the level of effort to run at a 1.0 incline does seem to feel like that of running outside.

im not a big fan of the eliptical machines only because I feel like I have to work out twice as long to get the same effect as running.

[neg.split]

Have you guys ever heard of this one?
The Barkley Marathon (http://www.mattmahoney.net/barkley/)
also found on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkley_Marathons)

call me crazy but I think it'd be awesome!

It sounds like it would be an awesome challenge, but 60+ hours?!?! I would have to take a couple nap breaks.

[coyfish]

a little tip: when you run on a treadmill, set the incline to 1.0. this is said to make your treadmill runs mimic an outdoor run (effort-wise, anyway). I dont know if anyone else ever noticed, but running on a treadmill at 0 incline feels like im going downhill. the level of effort to run at a 1.0 incline does seem to feel like that of running outside.

im not a big fan of the eliptical machines only because I feel like I have to work out twice as long to get the same effect as running.

running on a treadmill is easier because the floor moves. You dont have to propel yourself as much as if you were running outside.

[mysleeper6]

Coyfish...(can't quote from my work computer)

I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said about burning calories. What people have to remember though, is that caloric intake is really the key. You can target your heartrate to burn only fat, but if you are eating 3000 carbs of lean foods and only burning 2500 (exercise + basal metabolic rate) that's 500 extra calories that your body will convert to fat. In this example, that will result in a gain of a pound a week (500 x 7= 3500 calories or 1 lb.) If the same person worked out harder they would be burning those extra protein and carbohydrate calories before they were turned to fat.

I always encourage people to work out because it makes you stronger, faster, and reinforces a healthy lifestyle, but it's really about diet first. You can lose a ton of weight just by eating fewer calories than you eat (amazing that we've built a multi-billion dollar industry because people don't accept that). Exercise is just icing on the cake. Lol

[coyfish]

Coyfish...(can't quote from my work computer)

I'm not disagreeing with anything you have said about burning calories. What people have to remember though, is that caloric intake is really the key. You can target your heartrate to burn only fat, but if you are eating 3000 carbs of lean foods and only burning 2500 (exercise + basal metabolic rate) that's 500 extra calories that your body will convert to fat. In this example, that will result in a gain of a pound a week (500 x 7= 3500 calories or 1 lb.) If the same person worked out harder they would be burning those extra protein and carbohydrate calories before they were turned to fat.

I always encourage people to work out because it makes you stronger, faster, and reinforces a healthy lifestyle, but it's really about diet first. You can lose a ton of weight just by eating fewer calories than you eat (amazing that we've built a multi-billion dollar industry because people don't accept that). Exercise is just icing on the cake. Lol


Yeah I understand. I competed in a bodybuilding show a year ago at 5 foot 10, 180 pounds, 6% body fat. Just did it for the experience and I will never do it again. Cutting like that is just not normal and unhealthy.

I was just explaining the logic behind all those weird elyptical machines. Their fat burning claims are most likely true.

In order to lose real weight, everything must be in balance (nutrition, excersize, sleep, lifestyle). I wouldn't say anything comes first per say but I definately agree with you that nutrition should be the foundation. Genetics plays a huge role in this too. Not everyone loses weight just by eating super healhty. Some really struggle to burn off fat. Some people really need to find that perfect balance of everything to burn off real fat.

Ive been recently training for a triathlon. My uncles a cardio freak. He can smoke me in any long distance excersize. His diet is "good" but not great. Anyway he trains like an animal and its pretty funny because he is stalky and you cant see his abs. Me on the other hand . . . I cant remember a time where I didnt have abs. Even when I was bulking from 155 to 190 eating 5-6K calories a day.

[mysleeper6]

Can't edit from here either...that should read 3000 calories, not carbs.

[neg.split]

running on a treadmill is easier because the floor moves. You dont have to propel yourself as much as if you were running outside.

exactly, thats what the incline is supposed to offset.

[neg.split]

18-week marathon training plan begins tomorrow......YAYZ

[neg.split]

i guess everyone quit.

[jbiird317]

heh, nope i'm still out there pluggin away, maybe a 10 mile race in a couple weeks, its called the icicle run in wilmington, DE

[jred321]

i just challenged my gf on the nike + site. first person to 100 miles wins. i have 3.3 so far :)

[neg.split]

awesome. i wish we had races around here this time of year.

i got run run outside yesterday. it was 35 degrees so i went for a 10-mile run. man do i miss running outdoors. it was like an adventure run, hurdling snowbanks, dodging traffic, splashing through water puddles, it was great.

[jbiird317]

i didnt have any planned runs this weekend, but i took my dog to the dog park for a couple of hours and I think I did just about as much running as he did, it was a blast and a good way to mix up my running schedule a bit.

for nike+, have any of you guys seen the nike+ sportband for sale anywhere? It basicly allows you to continue using the chip even if you dont have your ipod with you. My girlfriend got one for her birthday in october and we havent been able to find one anywhere since

[neg.split]

they use to sell them everwhere. i know they werent as popular because they are even less accurate than the ipod chip. come to think of it, i havent seen them in stores lately. id check the website.

[jred321]

for nike+, have any of you guys seen the nike+ sportband for sale anywhere? It basicly allows you to continue using the chip even if you dont have your ipod with you. My girlfriend got one for her birthday in october and we havent been able to find one anywhere since
i looked into getting one of those for my dad to motivate him to walk more. what i found was they don't make it anymore. people were having problems with sweat getting into the display and making the display not work properly. eventually after a bunch of recalls they just stopped making them. there are rumors of a refreshed version coming out but i haven't seen anything.

[jbiird317]

they use to sell them everwhere. i know they werent as popular because they are even less accurate than the ipod chip. come to think of it, i havent seen them in stores lately. id check the website.


i looked into getting one of those for my dad to motivate him to walk more. what i found was they don't make it anymore. people were having problems with sweat getting into the display and making the display not work properly. eventually after a bunch of recalls they just stopped making them. there are rumors of a refreshed version coming out but i haven't seen anything.

nada on the website so maybe it is gone. i found one on ebay that was $95 and pink, seems a bit pricey/gay lol. I've never compared her wristband results to mine with the ipod, mainly cuz i have a hard time running with music and don't use my nike+ anymore. I hope they come out with another one. I dont necesarily want it to track my runs, I'd just like it to participate in the nike+ challenges. I guess in the meantime i could just carry the ipod and not hook up headphones.

[tricky]

i got run run outside yesterday. it was 35 degrees so i went for a 10-mile run. man do i miss running outdoors. it was like an adventure run, hurdling snowbanks, dodging traffic, splashing through water puddles, it was great.

I wish it were 35 here. I went out on Sat and Sunday both days were ~0 degrees with a neg 20 windchill. It sucked going into the wind!

[coyfish]

Did a fake traithlon today :). Biked 20 miles, swam 1.5 miles, then ran 8 miles. My legs were like butter during that run. Barely made it home.

[neg.split]

i can swim well enough to stay alive, other than that forget it.

[mysleeper6]

Started my post mononucleosis comeback (for the record, no I'm not 16---apparently once you have it, you can reactivate it---this is round #3 for me) today, after a two-month layoff. Should let it go another month, but it's driving me crazy and I'm getting fat. So, just taking it easy, ran 3 miles just under 8 minutes per. Meh, it's a start.

[neg.split]

ive been lucky enough to avoid that but i hear it sucks

[coyfish]

Yeah mono sounds annoying :(. 8 min miles not bad at all. Just remember to take it slow.

This stupid stress fracture is the worst injury ever. Ive rested it for over a year and i can still feel the pain after runs.

[mysleeper6]

Stress fractures ruined my collegiate career. The last race I ran was as a freshman during indoor on a pig-slow track: 3000m in 8:40. I coulda been a contenda!

Are you wearing a good motion control shoe (assuming your fracture is due to pronation)? I swear by the Brooks Adrenaline GTS. That, and custom orthotics.

[neg.split]

Yeah mono sounds annoying :(. 8 min miles not bad at all. Just remember to take it slow.

This stupid stress fracture is the worst injury ever. Ive rested it for over a year and i can still feel the pain after runs.

dude tell me about it. i think i might have (after researching) an adductor strain. it started about a year ago after i played football when it was raining. the day after my groin was in pain (from sliding around while i was running and cutting) and i could barely walk for a couple days. ever since then i get a dull, achy pain on the inside of both thighs right by my groin after jogging. its just recently started getting more intense but that could be due to the fact that i just started my 18 week marathon program. i hate this.

[EDM6-zoom zoom]

Just got me some new running shoes.
I will add running to my work out plan.
First I have to lose some weight by walking and working out.

[coyfish]

Stress fractures ruined my collegiate career. The last race I ran was as a freshman during indoor on a pig-slow track: 3000m in 8:40. I coulda been a contenda!

Are you wearing a good motion control shoe (assuming your fracture is due to pronation)? I swear by the Brooks Adrenaline GTS. That, and custom orthotics.

Yeah Ive had my foot strike analyzed and all that crap. Right now im using some New Balance shoes that supposedly correct my pronation. Ive had orthopedic doctors look at me, MRI's done, X Rays . . . All they say I can do it rest it (which I did for 1 year).

I think the problem must be that my feet point inward a bit which causes the pronation. This must lead to the excess stress. Right now the fracture itself has healed but an MRI I had done a couple months ago indicated inflammation in the same area.

8:40 is a great time for the 3000. I ran a 4:35 1 mile back in high school but I couldnt imagine doing it for almost 2 miles. Thanks for the advice on the shoes. Ill look into those when my New Balances need replacement.

[tricky]

no doubt 8:40 is a good time.

mysleeper6 - what division in college were you?

[navyagspeed3]

So I think in 2009 my goal for the year, besides fathering my second child in February, I am going to run a marathon. I started training over a Christmas vacation, but got a nasty flu from flying with a bunch of sick people. As soon as I feel better I'm going to start running again, I was doing around 10 miles a week. Sense I'm starting training I was going to by a pair of Nike + shoes but I don't have an iPod or the Nike+ gizmo. Is it worth it? or should I just stick to driving the MS3 to find out how far I'v run?

[mysleeper6]

no doubt 8:40 is a good time.

mysleeper6 - what division in college were you?

Division 1, Brown University. Providence, RI

They finished 6th in the nation in XC my Junior year---after I was done.

[coyfish]

The nike + thing is cool. Takes a bit of work to load all the software and monitor your progress but its fun. Lots of neat features you can load if you have the time to play with it. Don't worry about getting the nike + shoes. You can buy a little pouch that you put in your laces (any shoe) that will hold the little chip.

The nike + thing is purchased seperately from the IPOD.

[tricky]

I haven't checked into the whole Nike + thing but If any of you are interested, here's a free website you can use to log miles and workouts, http://www.running2win.com

it's pretty cool, you can create and save routes on actual street maps and it'll automatically calculate the distance. If you enter your total time for the route it also auto calculates your pace per mile, which is nice. here's one of mine for example.

[jbiird317]

yeah, usatf.com has a similar "map my run" function, very handy especially if you are running in an unfamiliar area

[jred321]

the nike + thing is cool. i'm a little undecided how useful it truly is but it's certainly cool so if you're picking up a new ipod anyways and you're a runner i'd say get it. don't know if i would pick up a new ipod just for it though

[neg.split]

i use the nike+ program and i like it a lot. while it isnt 100% accurate, it gives you a very good idea of how far you've run. you have to calibrate it which is very easy. all i did was drive around the neighborhood in my car and mark off a distance, like say, 1 mile. then you run the mile in calibration mode and save. the reason i say it isnt 100% accurate is because if you vary your stride length a lot (uphill vs. downhill runs, or if you are tired) it will slightly over or under estimate your mileage. it really isnt a big difference if you calibrate it well.
the nike+ chip tracks pace, time, and calories burned all while listening to your own playlist of your favorite music. when you plug your ipod in it automatically sends your workout info to you nike+ account on the nike+ website. when you log into your account you can see how many workouts you have completed, total mileage logged, and overall pace. The site also graphs each run so you can see where you sped up or slowed down and your split times. the website is pretty cool if you are a stat junky like i am. it also has the 'map it' feature where you can map out routes and see how far it is. also, you can join online running teams and challenges, earn trophies, etc. seriously, there is so much you can do with it. for $30, its a great bargain.

[neg.split]

btw, went to the dr. today. i have a strained adductor and minor umbilical hernia. nothing too serious, i just have to rest a bit and keep an eye on my hernia lump to make sure it doesnt get bigger or become too painful. i havent run since sunday which is the longest ive gone without running in a loong time and ive been in a crappy mood the last couple of days.

[tricky]

i havent run since sunday which is the longest ive gone without running in a loong time and ive been in a crappy mood the last couple of days.

Good to hear your injuries will heal. How long did the doc say to rest?

Funny thing about your last comment, the days I don't go for a run my wife tells me I'm a crab and have a bad attitude. I swear running make me a happier person.

[coyfish]

Good to hear your injuries will heal. How long did the doc say to rest?

Funny thing about your last comment, the days I don't go for a run my wife tells me I'm a crab and have a bad attitude. I swear running make me a happier person.

Rest . . . i HATE that word

[tricky]

lol, no doubt!

[08cosmic3]

I run. I started running at 34 and I'm 47 now. I run 5 to 6 days a week. Ran 10 miles yesterday. I used to be a very active racer when I was in my late 30's and early 40's. I ran my 1st marathon when I was 40 in a time of 2:55:31. I have since run the Boston Marathon twice 2004 and 2008. At one time I was ranked in the top five masters runners in the state of Kentucky. My Masters PR's are 17:14 for 5k, 36:06 for 10k, 1:19:00 for the Half and 2:55:31 for the Full. My most recent 5k was 18:53 this past summer. I plan on getting back in shape this winter and be ready to race more often this spring. In my early 40's I would race somewhere every other weekend and would normally run between 17:30 and 17:50 for 5k. I hope to get back this spring to running low 18's but will probably never run sub 18 again. Hell, I would be happy with high 18's right now.

My daughter is a senoir in high school and has been running for the varsity squad since 7th grade. She is sighning a running scholarship on Wednesday for Lindsey Wilson College in Kentucky. Free college FTW. It's raining outside now and as I type this she is running on the treadmill in the living room. I'll be running oustside if the rain lets up, I hate the TM.

[coyfish]

congrats with your daughter. I had a soccer scholarship to USF that I turned down. The free college definately would have been nice :).

[jred321]

just got back from a run. first run outside in a while. it's freaking cold.

[mysleeper6]

Cosmic, where in KY?

[08cosmic3]

Bowling Green

[neg.split]

Good to hear your injuries will heal. How long did the doc say to rest?

Funny thing about your last comment, the days I don't go for a run my wife tells me I'm a crab and have a bad attitude. I swear running make me a happier person.

a couple of weeks :( i just started my 18 week marathon program and i havent ran in 6 days. my wife hates it because ive been short fused that last few days

[neg.split]

I run. I started running at 34 and I'm 47 now. I run 5 to 6 days a week. Ran 10 miles yesterday. I used to be a very active racer when I was in my late 30's and early 40's. I ran my 1st marathon when I was 40 in a time of 2:55:31. I have since run the Boston Marathon twice 2004 and 2008. At one time I was ranked in the top five masters runners in the state of Kentucky. My Masters PR's are 17:14 for 5k, 36:06 for 10k, 1:19:00 for the Half and 2:55:31 for the Full. My most recent 5k was 18:53 this past summer. I plan on getting back in shape this winter and be ready to race more often this spring. In my early 40's I would race somewhere every other weekend and would normally run between 17:30 and 17:50 for 5k. I hope to get back this spring to running low 18's but will probably never run sub 18 again. Hell, I would be happy with high 18's right now.

My daughter is a senoir in high school and has been running for the varsity squad since 7th grade. She is sighning a running scholarship on Wednesday for Lindsey Wilson College in Kentucky. Free college FTW. It's raining outside now and as I type this she is running on the treadmill in the living room. I'll be running oustside if the rain lets up, I hate the TM.

congrats to your daughter. age groups aside, those are impressive times for anyone.

[blueprotegelx]

i'm a slacker! i've been back home for christmas break last three weeks and i think i've only ran 3 times. i hate running in cold b/c of my asthma and i started wheezing hardcore afterwards, therefore i am exstatic to go back to school tomo so i can run, do cardio on other machines and lift weights indoors! haha

[kickniteasy]

just picked up a set of nike air maxes.........kind of sad as they're discontinuing the line and this is my 4th pair of air maxes and they've been my go to shoe. Guess I don't have to worry about it for another 6 months. Can't wait to get 'em dirty. =)

[coyfish]

u go to fsu kicknit ? I just left fsu :).

[tricky]

Ya know what sucks? this stupid weather (http://www.weather.com/outlook/homeandgarden/home/local/55337?lswe=55337&lwsa=Weather36HourHomeCommand&from=searchbox_localwx). I'm all fired up to be running again and this week it hasn't been over 10 degrees. The damn windchill is ~ -20. I did go out Monday and Tuesday when I think it warmed up to +5. Click on that link, right now it's F'ing -24!!!

ok ranting done, I am going to run today after work so hopefully it'll be +1.

WOOT Minnesota!

edit: the temp just dropped to -28!!!

[jbiird317]

Ya know what sucks? this stupid weather (http://www.weather.com/outlook/homeandgarden/home/local/55337?lswe=55337&lwsa=Weather36HourHomeCommand&from=searchbox_localwx). I'm all fired up to be running again and this week it hasn't been over 10 degrees. The damn windchill is ~ -20. I did go out Monday and Tuesday when I think it warmed up to +5. Click on that link, right now it's F'ing -24!!!

ok ranting done, I am going to run today after work so hopefully it'll be +1.

WOOT Minnesota!

edit: the temp just dropped to -28!!!

haha i feel your pain man, maybe not to that severity tho. I went running last night in 9 degree weather, windchill probly close to zero...and i wore shorts! Call me crazy, but I can't run in pants. I was covered well up top (sweatshirt, hat, gloves) but i couldnt bring myself to put on the sweats. One of my gym friends saw me out there and gave me hell for it this morning, i just told him it was an envigorating run :)

[coyfish]

I ran 10 miles the other day without a shirt on :). Loving florida !

[neg.split]

im so sick of the -18 temps and -35 wind chills.

[navyagspeed3]

Went running in 60 degrees this morning. I broke down and bought a Nano and the Nike+. So far on the default without calibrating it has been within .01 in distance for my two runs so far.

[jbiird317]

finally turned in a long run this weekend and got my marathon training on track. ~12 miles or so in 11* and snowy weather, of course in my shorts, i passed a woman walking with her husband and her comment cracked me up, "he's out in here in shorts and I'm in a f*cking snow suit!" lol

[tricky]

wow, 11* and you went out in shorts! I typically won't bust out my shorts until it hits ~40*. I love over hearing people comment about running, it's pretty funny.

[coyfish]

showin off them running legs !

Here in florida people run in snowsuits in 60 degree weather

[blueprotegelx]

finally turned in a long run this weekend and got my marathon training on track. ~12 miles or so in 11* and snowy weather, of course in my shorts, i passed a woman walking with her husband and her comment cracked me up, "he's out in here in shorts and I'm in a f*cking snow suit!" lol

that's hilarious. if their out walking i'm sure they don't realize how fast your body warms up, thus if you were in the snow suit it would have been a sauna in there. ha.

i'm going to start my marathon training as well today!

this is kind of off subject, but i'm about to join the Athletic Training program here @ Eastern Kentucky University and my adviser asked me to join him and some members of the program to Atl, Ga for a huge Athletic Training conference where huge names will be and authors! i feel very honored in going to this annual conference and hope to learn a lot.

[tricky]

damn you guys and your marathon training... now I'm getting the bug to sign up for Chicago next fall.

blueprotegelx - know of any names that are gonna be at the conference? Sounds like a sweet deal, I bet you'll learn a lot

[jbiird317]

i was definitely sweating by the end of the run, even in shorts...

tricky - you should def sign up for chicago, I hear its one of the best races around (unless of course there is a record heat wave and people start dropping dead on the course again, thats not as pleasant)

blueprotegelx - sounds like a cool conference indeed, congrats and share some stories when you get back!

[tricky]

That race was insane! So glad I didn't decide to run it that year. I couldn't believe how many people went to the hospital for heat related issues.

I've actually ran Chicago back in '02, it was by far the funniest race I've ever done. Running through all parts of the Chicago suburbs was really cool to see. It's also a really fast course which gives it an added perk.

[blueprotegelx]

the event is the 24th Annual Athletic Training
Student Symposium held by SEATA (SouthEast Athletic Trainers Association).

Here are a list in order of AT's/ and others speaking: Ray Castle, Pradeep Vanguri, Eric Gunderson, Eric Fuchs (My Advisor (Head AT @ EKU), Helen Binkley, Sue Stanley-Green, Johna Register Mihalik, Jane Steinberg, Karen Lew, Cathy Brown, Craig Elder, Kirk Brown, Mick Lynch

Some of the main ATC's speaking/attending: R.T. Floyd, Tom Kaminski, Gary Wilkerson, Cathy Brown, Bill Prentice, Jane Steinberg, Elizabeth Swann, Marisa Colston, Sue Stanley-Green

[navyagspeed3]

So I met my goal last month of 50 mi. I finished on Saturday just in the nick of time. Any one else have monthly goals?

[coyfish]

Try not to injure myself training :)

[neg.split]

Try not to injure myself training :)

agreed. staying healthy is my biggest concern.

I dont set monthly goals on my nike+ account. i do enter challenges though. my s/n on the nikeplus site is joswen3

[coyfish]

The idea of goals is great but it just doesn't work for me. When it comes to athletics with me, if I set a goal it WILL be achieved. Even when I set a moderate goal, I push myself to achieve it which often results in injury /:.

Also I would just like some of your opinions if you dont mind. Im not sure if I explained my running history on here but here it goes . . .

Im 21 and ive been involved in athletics (soccer up until high school). Never had an issue. When I entered college I started running for sport. Building up endurance and eventually to the point when I began training for a half marathon. After a 5 months of training or so I was fine until I got my first bout of pain. I won't go into detail to spare you guys a little but this was a weird pain on the inside of my legs near my groin. I rested a few months (didnt run 1/2 marathon) and thankfully that injury subsided and hasn't returned.

About 6 months later I picked up running again. Started training seriosly. Built up my stamina and then I got the worst injury. The stress fracture. ACtually it wasn't a full blown stress fracture but a partial on both legs. MRI's indicated irritation. If I were to continue it would end up as a stress fracture no doubt. At this point I was very frustrated. I was only 19 at this point and suffereing from injuries. I come from a very athletic family and I had a full ride to USF to play soccer that I turned down. I see older guys running without problems and it drives me insane. Anyway the doc told me to rest it. I took resting very seriosly this time and I didn't run for an entire year. I picked up biking and weightlifting instead.

The year passed and I eased back into running. Slowly just 1 mile at first at jog pace. 2 weeks pass and what do you know . . . the pain is back. Words cannot describe my frustration. Recently Ive been training for triathlons with emphasis on swimming / biking of course. I try and run 5 miles once a week but even now Ive got this new pain deep in my right ass cheek. Feels like a muscle pain just below were your back meets your butt. Just under that top pelvis bone on your back.

Anyway if your still reading at this point im pretty lost as to what to do. I actually think I found the culprit of all my problems however. At first I thought it was just because I had been bodybuilding and gained weight. Im not a big guy (5 foot 10 @ 170 pounds 10% BF). More weight is obviosly more strain. Now however I think its my feet. I had overlooked such an obvios deformity until now. My legs and thus my feet point inward slightly (especially my right). This causes me to strike with the outside of my pinky toe. Then the foot rolls inward eventually flattening out. This crazy pronation must be the source of my pains.

Im lost right now though because the orthopedic surgeon has already failed to help me. Im trying to find some professional running clinic where I can have custom insoles and / or shoes be made for me. They will be expensive no doubt but this is my last option. Do you guys have any recommendations? Sucks how I can't do something i love.

I really appreciate you reading, Thanks !

[jred321]

doesn't new balance do custom shoes? or at least they take measurements of your feet and determine which of their shoes best fit you? maybe stop by a NB store and see what they have to say

[jbiird317]

well im not sure where exactly to point you, but I know someone who has had similar problems with stress fracture and general pain because of foot problems. she sought out multiple podiatrists before one was able to help her. He gave her an orthodic insert for her running shoes that was made based on her unique striking pattern. It wasnt cheap but i know she has significantly less problems now than in the past. So i guess my advice to you is keep trying until you find someone that is willing to help. maybe even try and look for local university studies that can give you a better idea what you need.

[coyfish]

Thanks guys. I found a university study in oregon lol . . . Im in FL so I think ill pass on that one. Right now im using some quality new balances but as jbiird suggested I think im going to have to find a good podiatrist to custom make an insert for me. Going to be one hell of a weird insert :).

[navyagspeed3]

Before I started running longer distances I went to a store here in Texas called Fleet Feet. They will be able to pic out the best shoes for your pronation. When I went I found out my right foot is an underpronater but my left is a normal pronater. They had about four shoes that they suggested for me, then told me about their 10 return policy. So I tried a pair of Mizuno's but they just felt off for me. I ran about 15 miles in them and traded them for a pair of Saucony's on day 10, now I couldn't be happier. I just googled them and they have four stores in Florida that might be able to help you out. Good luck though. Hope that helps.

[coyfish]

Hmm I like that return policy. Ill be sure to look them up and give them a try. Thanks !

[jbiird317]

Fleet Feet are good stores definitely. Really any high end running company should have the same help and return policy though.

[neg.split]

i agree about going to a specialty running store. Most new runners overlook footwear but getting fit for the proper shoes will make a world of difference. If you have never been to a specialty running store and been fit for shoes, i would recommend doing so. Most specialty stores will have trained staff on-site. I know the fleet feet closest to me (35 miles away :( ) has a treadmill with a mounted camera where they have you run and record it, then play it back for you and offer advice and suggestions based on your stride.

also, I would suggest working on knowing your limits and listening to your bodies. The dumbest quote ive ever heard is, "no pain, no gain." If you have pain, something is wrong. You sound a lot like me in terms of your drive to achieve your athletic goals. When I started running I was trying to build up to 60-80 mile weeks. I quickly realized that my body starts to break down after about 35 miles per week and suffered a strained adductor and a hernia. After I realized this, I adjusted my training to no more than 35 miles per week and added hill training, speedwork, and moderate weightlifting focusing mostly on my core. Since then I have been able to stay healthy and continue my hopes of qualifying for the boston marathon in my first attempt.

I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find a way to continue running and achieving your athletic goals.

[coyfish]

Thanks guys. Yeah ive tried a specialy store which gave me a new balance shoe thats supposed to correct extreme pronation. So far no luck with them though. Im going to visit the fleet feet store so they can really analyze my foot strike. Having people watch me run just isn't enough. Im going to most likely need a custom built shoe and/or custom insoles.

[coyfish]

Did my 1st triathlon of the season. 1 mile swim, 19 mile bike, 5 mile run

Finished @ 1 hour 55 min.

[tricky]

Did my 1st triathlon of the season. 1 mile swim, 19 mile bike, 5 mile run

Finished @ 1 hour 55 min.

nice work, what were your splits & T times?

[coyfish]

Honestly I didn't even check. My swim was slow but you dont lose too much time there which is good. Water was so cold and so dark. You couldn't see your hand 1 foot in front of your face which made the swim very scary.

Im going to check out the website and see if they have those times posted.

[neg.split]

nice job.

on a side note, i have my first race of the season on sunday. im pretty excited.

[coyfish]

Went to that fleet feet store and they gave me a new look at my footstrike. Most other places ive been to saw my pronation and immediatly jumped to high support shoe. This "locked" my feet into the proper position but my body is not perfect. This actually did more harm than good and hopefully was the cause of my injuries. Nike has some new "lunar" shoes with very little torsional (lateral) support. This allows the foot to move naturally (as if barefoot) with a good bottom support. New shipment coming in the 1st week of march so hopefully these new shoes will help me out.

Thx again for the advice and GL with your training neg split

[neg.split]

I have the lunar trainers. they are the most comfortable shoes ive ever ran in. i hope to get my hands on a pair of the lunar racers for racing - they weigh less than 6oz.

on a side note - a PR is out of question for my 5k tomorrow since we had a snow storm today.......i hate winter

[neg.split]

I ended up winning my age group with a sub-par time in terrible conditions. I'll take medals any way I can get them :)

[08cosmic3]

I ran a 5K in Alabama Saturday, finishing in 19:29 and winning the Masters division. This was my first race since July 08. My goal is to run sub 19 minutes for my next race and hopefully get down to mid 18's in a couple of months. I've been injury prone the last two years and have not raced very often but hope to get back this year.

Congrats NEG SLPIT. I have tried many times to run negative splits but I'm too impatient. I went out too fast Saturday and struggled in the last mile.

[jbiird317]

congrats on the good 5k's guys

my marathon is in less than 2 weeks and i finally logged my 20 miler this weekend. Saturday was a beautiful day and besides a little sunburn and one minor blister, it was a great run. I picked a hillier course than the race would be on and I managed just fine, so now im less nervous and more excited for race day to finally get here!

[blueprotegelx]

Hey guys..I'm getting back in running shape again. This has been a rough semester for me with classes. I've been doing intense cardio the past week. Is there anything you guys take to help with your performance? Supplements or what not?

[jbiird317]

shamrock marathon was this morning, 3 hours 21 mins! My former PR was 4:12, i'm so excited!

[08cosmic3]

shamrock marathon was this morning, 3 hours 21 mins! My former PR was 4:12, i'm so excited!

WOW, Huge PR. Congrats. Now go for the sub 3 hr.

[08cosmic3]

Hey guys..I'm getting back in running shape again. This has been a rough semester for me with classes. I've been doing intense cardio the past week. Is there anything you guys take to help with your performance? Supplements or what not?

There is no short cuts in distance running. You have to earn the good race times the old fashion way. As a runner and father of a high school distance runner and soon to be collegent runner, I have had many parents come up to me at High School CC meets and say their son/daughter can't breath during the races and what can they do to breath better. They assume there is some kind of trick too it I guess. I always tell them that the kids running up front, run year round, not just during CC/Track season. Distance running is unlike any other sport in that you can't take alot of time off and pick back up quickly, it's best not to ever stop running.

The secret is, there is no secret.


I ran in a 5K race yesterday finishing 3rd in 20:16. The course was very hilly and may have been a little long. It was the first time for this race and the start and finish lines were in the same location on a loop course, which is almost imposssible to get exactly 3.1 miles when the course starts and finishes at the same spot on a loop course. It was a small town race with two high school boys finishing ahead of me and only 60 runners.

I'm trying to make a comeback after being away from racing for the last few years and at my age it won't be easy. I'll post up my times and let everyone know how it's going. My first goal is to get under 19 mins for 5K.

[coyfish]

how old are you?? Lots more 30-50 year olds getting better times than 15-25 year olds. Of course there are amazing young runners too but in general the "older" runners are getting better times.

I finished right beside a 50 year old guy in my last triathlon. I was amazed because I finished at 1:57 which is a pretty good time for an olympic triathlon.

[08cosmic3]

I'm 47. You are right about the young runners being mostly slow. Distance running requires discipline and focus and alot of young runners don't do very well in those areas. A few years ago I would have run away from the two teens that beat me Yesterday. I'm racing again this weekend on a certified 5k course. The course is rolling but still much easier than the one yesterday.

[poison]

Anyone barefoot/toe/tarahumara run? I don't run much, as I stick to judo, but when I do, I use the principles. I just need flat shoes.

If you're not familiar with it, basically what most runners do is heel>toe. This only works because modern shoes are so cushioned, you can drive your heel straight in. But if you go run barefoot, the way we were meant to, on concrete, you'll take 3 strides and stop. Your heel was not meant to take that abuse, there's no padding there. Even 1.25 in of space age foam isn't the equal of your own body when running properly.

What's properly? Landing on your toe. We have 3-5 inches of built in cushion, in the form of our foot flexion. When you land on your toe, it uses your calf muscle to cushion the impact; it removes the shin muscle from the equation, as well as shin splints; it strengthens the foot muscles; and it removes most of the shock normally transferred through the foot into the knee, hip, and lower back.

I've done ultra-endurance runs, and I wish I had been doing this. It significantly lowered the distance I can cover, in the beginning, as my calves and feet were weak (still are, as I don't do it enough), but it sure feels a whole lot more natural.

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&category=motivation&conitem=3b4b1ca01e91c010VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=1

Orton is part of a growing movement of Free Your Feet rebels, who believe it's not running that causes injuries, but running form and economy of training. One of the more vocal -- and surprising -- members of this group is Gerard Hartmann, Ph.D., an exercise physiologist who works with the world's greatest marathoners and also consults for Nike. According to Hartmann, the vast majority of running-related foot injuries are a result of too much foam-injected pampering. Running shoes have become so supercushioned and motion-controlling, they allow our foot muscles to atrophy and our tendons to shorten and stiffen. Without strength and flexibility, injuries are inevitable.



"The deconditioned musculature of the foot is the greatest issue leading to injury," Hartmann explains. "If I give you a collar to wear around your neck, in 4 to 6 weeks, we'll find 40 to 60 percent atrophy of musculature. That's why this emphasis on cushioning and motion control makes no sense.



One of Hartmann's star clients, marathon world-record holder Paula Radcliffe, has been training in the Nike Free, a new, minimalist slipper designed to mimic the range of motion of a naked foot. Alan Webb, America's best miler, also works out in the Free. Webb had been hobbled by foot injuries early in his career, but after he started barefoot exercises, his injuries disappeared, and his shoe size shrank, from a 12 to a 9. "My foot muscles became so strong, they pulled my arches up," says Webb. "Wearing too much shoe prevents you from tapping into the natural gait you have when landing on the ground."



Perhaps this was what I had witnessed while trying to keep up with Alejandro. Watching him run, I was surprised to find that instead of the long, galloping stride I'd expected, he never stretched out his legs at all. He kept his knees bent and his forefeet padding down directly under his body, as if he were riding an invisible unicycle.



"Exactly!" says Ken Mierke, an exercise physiologist and the creator of the barefoot-modeled Evolution Running technique. "That's why they don't get hurt." Mierke believes there is a perfect, Tarahumara-like footstrike that can guarantee you will run longer and faster, and drastically reduce your chances of injury. The key is to stay off your heel and to use your leg as a pistonlike shock absorber.



"You wouldn't jump off a ladder and land on your heels, right?" Mierke asks. "Same with running. If you land on your heel, your leg is straight, and the impact is smashing into one joint after the other. If you land on your forefoot, however, with the leg bent, it absorbs shock using elastic tissues instead of bone."



Orton, the ultrasport coach, uses unconscious instinct and visualization for proper form, and three easy steps to perfect it.



"Imagine your kid is running into the street and you have to sprint after her in bare feet," he says. That's the visual: "You'd automatically lock into perfect form -- you'd be up on your forefeet, with your back erect, head steady, arms high, elbows driving, and feet touching down quickly on the forefoot and kicking back toward your butt." And then, to build the strength and balance to maintain that form over long distances, use the heel, hips, and hills principle:



1. Wear the most neutral, low-heeled running shoe that feels comfortable.



2. Keep your hips dead under your shoulders and dead above your feet.



3. Use big hills to iron out the rest of the wrinkles.



"You can't run uphill powerfully with poor bio-mechanics," Orton says. "Just doesn't work. If you try landing on your heel with a straight leg, you'll tip over backward."



But for a technique that's supposed to be natural, I find barefoot-style running awkward. Orton lets me ease into it by keeping the distance light for the first few weeks and assigning me hill repeats and speedwork, plus some core-conditioning exercises to make my lower back, instead of my quads, support my weight.



By month 2, though, he's sending me off on 2-hour weekend runs and adding a long midweek run. Barely 8 weeks into his program, I'm already running more miles per week -- at a much faster pace -- than I ever have in my life. I keep waiting for all the old ghosts of the past to come roaring out -- the screaming Achilles, the ripped hamstring, the plantar fasciitis. I start carrying my cellphone on the longer runs, convinced that any day now, I'll end up a limping mess by the side of the road.



Whenever I feel a twinge, I run through my diagnostics: Back straight? Check. Knees bent and driving forward? Check. Feet landing under the hips? . . . There's your problem, rockhead. Once I make the adjustment, the hot spot eases and disappears. By the time Eric bumps me up to 5-hour runs, the ghosts and the cellphone are forgotten.

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/

[coyfish]

After lots of running experience and currently coming back from an injury I can tell you there is no 1 way to run. I used to be a firm advocate of running on the ball or even toe of the foot instead of heel but it simply depends on your unique anatomy. Most people have a natural tendency to "jog" on their heels. For instance when many forefoot strikers get tired, they revert to heelstriking. I currently do traithlons and I find myself heelstriking often even though I train forefoot. A study examining the footstrikes of the beijjing olympic marathoners concluded that like 85% of people were striking with the heel by the end of the race. This is just one study and of an elite group so it by no means is the end all be all.

The heel is a big bone which was made to absorb lots of impact. As you strike with your heel, this force is "laid" onto your forefoot. The negative of this method is that it puts a lot of stress on your bones.

Forefoot / toe striking on the other hand definately has a softer strike. Instead of putting this stress on your bones, it places this stress on your muscles / tendons. Either way the stress of running affects some part of your body.

I war running marathons using heelstriking. I ended up with a stress fracture. That healed and now im training for traithlons. For the past couple years ive been forefoot striking and now I have tendonitis.

Anyway the source of my problem (if you scroll back a few pages in this thread) is simply the way my foot is put together. My custom insoles should be here any day now and I cant wait to start running again !!

In conclusion my advice would be to try both methods of running and pursue the one that feels best for you. Distance running for many is more of a battle against injury than anything.

[poison]

My advice? ^ Get a bike. :D

Oh, and by the time most Olympian forefoot strikers have tired enough to heel strike, they're speedwalking. :p

[coyfish]

IVe got a bike :). Im doing triathlons now. Much less running. Hopefully the insoles help me. Im pretty sure they will.


by the 16th mile or so many olympians start heelstriking. They are still hauling ass !

[blueprotegelx]

I have been doing a lot more training lately. I've been trying to goto the gym everyday and doing lifting every other and cardio everyday but with a different machine and usually mondays off. I have mentioned before that I have some knee problems, not exactly sure what it is, but it seems to be patellar tendinitis. My question is, although I do a fair amount of nonsuraface contact cardio (eliptical & bike) can that still cause inflammation within the knee? I try to run atleast 1-2 times a week. I had not been running the past couple weeks, but when I went to run on monday my knees were killing b/c it was like they were sore from not making contact. So I'm going to do 1-2 runs a week, try to strength my lower extremity (lungs, quad extensions, hamstring curls, squats) with low weight and high reps (what do you think?). Should I take IBU, ICE etc?

[coyfish]

If your knees hurt more than usual you probably need to rest them. They are inflammed so I would do some basic muscle building excersizes in your leg along with some bike and ice it after. Elypitical might bother it but bike should be ok.

Im doing sports therapy right now for my tendonitis and thats what im doing. Bike, a bunch of stretching, some muscle building in my leg, ankle, calf, followed by icing it down. Inflammation is like a fire that needs to be put out !

[poison]

IVe got a bike :). Im doing triathlons now. Much less running. Hopefully the insoles help me. Im pretty sure they will.


by the 16th mile or so many olympians start heelstriking. They are still hauling ass !

Did you get orthotics from a pediatrist, or one of those in and out places?

I had stress fractures in my feet because of my extremely high arches. Orthotics fixed it. I wore em for ten years. I stopped a couple years ago, and as I'm not running 40 milers, it's no problem.

[coyfish]

ive done the whole deal. Been to an orthopedic sergeon had xrays / MRI's / etc.

These are custom orthodics molded to my foot by a real sports therapist.

My problem is mainly with the front end of my foot instead of the heel which is what most cheap orthodics adress.

The stress fracture was in my leg.

I was running marathons when I was younger but I guess age has taken its toll (im 21). My body isn't as flexible. Right now even if I run a light 5 miles a couple times a week my legs will hurt very badly.

[blueprotegelx]

If your knees hurt more than usual you probably need to rest them. They are inflammed so I would do some basic muscle building excersizes in your leg along with some bike and ice it after. Elypitical might bother it but bike should be ok.

Im doing sports therapy right now for my tendonitis and thats what im doing. Bike, a bunch of stretching, some muscle building in my leg, ankle, calf, followed by icing it down. Inflammation is like a fire that needs to be put out !

What type of bike exercises and muscle building exercises are you doing? I'd like to vary my leg exercises in order to work more muscles than what I am working now (Large and small muscles).

[shootz]

Hey there. I just noticed this thread (again perhaps). I really like what you had to say Poison. I too aim to run with a forefoot strike. About 4.5 years ago I went to a college distance running camp where I met a D1 coach who is a part of the team of coaches that advises US Track and Field. He shared his insights into why American have struggled to run as fast as Africans, even though some athletes (like Meb K.) have been in better shape when the world vs. American records were set. Much of the difference was found to be in the biomechanics of running. Over the next year and a half I changed my stride/footstrike to mimic this. Why?

Forefoot running is more efficient (once you've adapted) and does less damage to your joints, since you take advantage of the bodies built in shock absorbers (the toes and ankle joints), rather than loading on the foam beneath the heel of most shoes. I've talked at length with local podiatrist Dr. Ray McClanahan (nwfootankle.com (http://www.nwfootankle.com)) about these topics. Having a background in anatomy, physiology, and kinesiology, I found our time to be very insightful. The Men's Health article, referenced above, is quite a good explanation of the benefits of proper biomechanics and diet for a distance runner. Now, not all of us can go out into the forest and run barefoot, but there are many parks and greenspaces that are applicable for our foot health.

In addition to barefoot running, I am learning more about the destructive problems that plague our feet due to the shoes we wear. There are 3 main problems that most shoes have, that lead to foot problems. Cultures where the population go barefoot see a tiny fraction of foot injury (5% of the population during their lifetime) compared to us in the US (75% of people during their lifetimes). The main difference? Our feet are molded and movement is restricted by the shoes we wear causing our feet to become weak (muscles, tendons, etc) and unnaturally shaped. The biomechanics of the foot therefore are changed and lead to arch problems, fasciitis, fasciocis, and other problems largely absent from unshod/barefoot cultures. I'd love to share more if you have questions. Personally, I did not find it hard to believe much of this I think in large, due to my background in science.

It may seem tough to swallow, but consider that most of the shoes we buy are bought for initial comfort or fashion or a mix of these. This does not mean that they are good functionally... just that we like them. So, before you bash anything I've written here, take a moment to compare a couple feet... the feet of a baby or a person from an unshod/barefoot culture compared to your feet. They look different. Consider the implications. If you are not sure what they are... ask or research.

The health of your feet matter. Care for them. They need it.

[coyfish]

Like your post suggests shootz, I think the reason Africans are so great at running is because of evolution !!! It may be funny but thats how I see it. Over there they are running barefoot and chasing cheetas :). Being silly but you get my point.

I don't really agree with you about being efficient with the forefoot strike shootz. Its definately a more aggressive state which is why short distance runners / sprinters use it.

According to that olympic study I mentioned earlier only about 10% of people were forefoot / toe striking at the end of the race. About twice that began the race forefoot striking. I think its safe to assume that these guys have well developed running muscles. When you get tired 95% of people revert to heel striking which is the natural way of "jogging" for most people.

As for the foot problems of barefoot countries. I somewhat agree but you have to also realize these guys arent complaining. They are living in 3rd world countries so foot pain is the least of their problems.

Im also assuming were talking about long distance running. Long distance running doesn't exist in college track and field which might be why those coaches said that. For short distance running forefoot striking is the only way to go. You cant run fast on your heels.

Ive also spoken with many sports therapists, orthopedic sergeon, athletes and there is no 1 answer. Either way you land you are putting loads of stress on some part of your body. If you land on your forefoot, its your muscles and tendons. If you land on your heel, its your bones and joints.

Not trying to give forefoot striking a bad rap (its the way I run lol) but after injury and hours and hours and hours of research im pretty confident in my conclusion.

[poison]

Cool discussion, nice to see a good argument on both sides!

Speaking of feet: I served in the IDF, in an airborne combat unit, and this is where I did my long distance running. I did many 20 and 40 milers, and a 60 miler, as well as many 20+ milers with heavy loads. All were in combat boots and uniform, with minimum 25lbs on my back, over dirt pack at best. Initially, I suffered stress fractures in the little bones on top of my feet (forget the name), but a good orthotic fixed that.

I didn't really suffer too much after the orthotics, but in the back of my mind was always: what price am I paying by doing this? Well, I'm now 34, fit, and with few issues. I have a mild herniated disc in my back, tendonitis in my achilles, mild rotator cuff, etc. Nothing serious, so far, but I'm a bit stiff in the mornings. I am a bit worried about my feet. My little toe is messed up on both feet, I think it's a tailors bunionette, brought on by the orthotics pushing my foot outward into my shoe. Painful, depending on the shoe.

So yeah, care for the feet. ;)

[SeR_Cyclops]

I use to run Xc and Track in High school. I really didnt care much for the running i enjoyed beating my PR's but the only real reason i ran is because the team. we were such a brotherhood that it was unreal. We really meshed together and became a team. it was awesome.

[coyfish]

Cool discussion, nice to see a good argument on both sides!

Speaking of feet: I served in the IDF, in an airborne combat unit, and this is where I did my long distance running. I did many 20 and 40 milers, and a 60 miler, as well as many 20+ milers with heavy loads. All were in combat boots and uniform, with minimum 25lbs on my back, over dirt pack at best. Initially, I suffered stress fractures in the little bones on top of my feet (forget the name), but a good orthotic fixed that.

I didn't really suffer too much after the orthotics, but in the back of my mind was always: what price am I paying by doing this? Well, I'm now 34, fit, and with few issues. I have a mild herniated disc in my back, tendonitis in my achilles, mild rotator cuff, etc. Nothing serious, so far, but I'm a bit stiff in the mornings. I am a bit worried about my feet. My little toe is messed up on both feet, I think it's a tailors bunionette, brought on by the orthotics pushing my foot outward into my shoe. Painful, depending on the shoe.

So yeah, care for the feet. ;)

Oooo god that sounds awful. So for with all that weight on you. Not to mention that thick uniform / boots. A couple of years of that and I would say your lucky to walk out with minor injury.

Are your orthodics custom made ?? Hopefully I get mine tommorow. Its been 3 weeks and I want them so bad.

[eszoom]

when i was running 20 years ago ,i could maintain a 7.45 training pace almost forever. now i can do a 9.00. my pr 10k time 37.30 non cert. course and 38.50 certified. i hope you guys are right about 50 + year olds running faster but i think i gotta lose 25-30 lbs first to have a chance
(and i THINK i was a heel striker)

[coyfish]

Well late 30's to 40s is the "peak" when it comes to most endurance activities.

I busted my ass to get a 1:57 in my last olympic triathlon and finished right next to a guy who was 50. Pretty amazing. Swimming in pitch black water thats freezing cold is scary business. Especially when your getting hit in the face by 1000 other athletes. Don't know how those older guys did it.

[poison]

Oooo god that sounds awful. So for with all that weight on you. Not to mention that thick uniform / boots. A couple of years of that and I would say your lucky to walk out with minor injury.

Lol, I was young. I know I could do everything I did then, now; I just couldn't do it with the same frequency. Shoot, we did one 20 mile plus run a week for months, plus daily 3-7 mile PT runs, plus daily infantry exercises/practice with lots of running and lugging 'wounded' around, etc. All on 4 hours interrupted sleep. Ha!

Are your orthodics custom made ?? Hopefully I get mine tommorow. Its been 3 weeks and I want them so bad.

Yes, custom $800 deals (insurance covered most of it). They saved my ass in the army. Now, I'm OK without. Judo has strengthened my feet quite a lot. If I ever run again regularly, I'd probably wear them again. Are yours custom? Foam or plastic?

[coyfish]

Yeah mine are custom. Cost only 200 bucks though. Sports therapist is really good. Had that clay outline of my foot made about 3 weeks ago. The stupid insoles were supposed to be in last week but "hopefully" they will be there tommorow. Im doing therapy too.

[neg.split]

I completed my first marathon in 3:17:10 yesterday. It was much harder and more intense than I ever expected. My legs pretty much gave out just after mile 20. I probably wasted 10-15 minutes over the final 6 miles stopping to stretch and walk.

I learned my lesson of starting too fast. I wanted to average 7:15/mile (3:10:00 goal time) but after completing the first 2 miles in 7:05 and 7:02 I proceeded to push my pace. I was feeling great and started to zone out near the half-way point, however, I knew I was in trouble when i clocked mile 13 at 6:39. My legs started to cramp around mile 21 and I labored through the last 5 miles. All things considered, I am pleased with my time even though I didn't hit my goal.

[08cosmic3]

Congrats.

[poison]

Awesome!

[tricky]

I completed my first marathon in 3:17:10 yesterday. It was much harder and more intense than I ever expected. My legs pretty much gave out just after mile 20. I probably wasted 10-15 minutes over the final 6 miles stopping to stretch and walk.

I learned my lesson of starting too fast. I wanted to average 7:15/mile (3:10:00 goal time) but after completing the first 2 miles in 7:05 and 7:02 I proceeded to push my pace. I was feeling great and started to zone out near the half-way point, however, I knew I was in trouble when i clocked mile 13 at 6:39. My legs started to cramp around mile 21 and I labored through the last 5 miles. All things considered, I am pleased with my time even though I didn't hit my goal.

nice work, isn't is amazing how easy those middle miles can feel then BAM the last 5 hit you like a ton of bricks. What marathon did you run?

[coyfish]

Just went for a 40 mile bike ride and followed it up with a 5 mile run. Was feeling good then all of a sudden boom. Left leg gave out of nowhere. Must have been a gust of wind :). Didn't fall but I almost did. Pretty embarrasing.

[kilik2]

Man you guys are serious. I try to never stray past the 5 mile mark. I ran 400 and occasionally the 800 in high school. I agree with the the forefoot striking for short distances but for long distance my knees end up hurting and it just seems smoother to roll up the foot ( heel to toe). I don't have any record setting times with long distance, my fastest mile is 5:38 but I felt like I was going to die....
little tip don't tell the fastest long distance runner at your school that you can keep up with him....he will make you look bad although I did beat him in the 400, which I can still run in 49-50 sec.

[neg.split]

nice work, isn't is amazing how easy those middle miles can feel then BAM the last 5 hit you like a ton of bricks. What marathon did you run?

That's exactly what it felt like. I ran the inaugural Wisconsin Marathon in Kenosha, WI on May 2nd.

[SeR_Cyclops]

Man guys, I use to run track and Xcountry in High school but I graduated in 07 and have not ran much since lol actually only two miles. But im getting larger haha so I have to start running again or ill never be able to start back :(

[neg.split]

Just went for a 40 mile bike ride and followed it up with a 5 mile run. Was feeling good then all of a sudden boom. Left leg gave out of nowhere. Must have been a gust of wind :). Didn't fall but I almost did. Pretty embarrasing.


I just got my bike in working order so I'm going to try and get some good rides in soon. No 40 milers because that's crazy but I want to do like a 15 mile bike/10 mile run.

[MSpeed68]

Did a 10K last weekend in 41:34. I could of done better, but it was a 8am run, I am not a morning runner, lol.

[coyfish]

I just got my bike in working order so I'm going to try and get some good rides in soon. No 40 milers because that's crazy but I want to do like a 15 mile bike/10 mile run.

Hehe good luck man. If you have never run after a bike ride you are in for a suprise :).

[electrodave1]

runners vary just like cars some are fast others not so much, I have been running for 30 years and cant beat a half hour in a ten-K but I still do it. dave

[electrodave1]

I guess I better tell the truth, I did run a 5-K not a ten-K last month with my wife, 52, in 26:20 she finished in 30:16 but she was beat by a guy who was 82, eleven years older than I. We both beat our son-in-law who is 23. You can do it all your life! Dave

[kilik2]

Hey, I just started p90x today and I will be stacking it with 3 5k's a week( mon wed sat). The fastest I have run 5k is 20:19 but I plan on averaging about 22 mins for my workout days and 20 mins on off days.
I have an awesome excel file that keeps track of all of my running for the month, year, what shoes I wore, and it graphs my distance over a year and average times for 1 mile, 2 mile, and 5k.

[neg.split]

Hehe good luck man. If you have never run after a bike ride you are in for a suprise :).

It actually hasn't been too bad. I've been doing hill sprints once a week. I'm preparing for a 205-mile relay in august. The course is supposed to have a lot of hills so I'm trying to strengthen my legs. Also, I'm on a quest to run a 4:XX mile. Been doing track sessions once a week to help my speed.

I signed up to run a half marathon on my 30th b-day in September. My first race in a new age group, I'm looking to run about 1:25 ish.

[SeR_Cyclops]

Man a sub 5 min mile at the age of 30, holy shit more power to ya!

[jbiird317]

i forgot to post it in here, but I did my first triathlon last month. It was sort of a surprise to me, my aunt called me a week ahead of time and said a friend dropped out, would i like to take her spot? sure, i just ran a marathon, how hard can it be??

HARD. It was a sprint triathlon, 500 yard swim, 16 mile bike, 5k run. I did pretty well i guess, the swim was by far the hardest part since I hadn't trained at all (13:42 mins). the bike wasn't easy, but if I had a road bike, not a mountain bike it may have been easier (58:03 mins), and the 5k was disappointing (20:34 mins).

I recently got a road bike, I'd like to try it again with proper equipment and training.

[coyfish]

Ya marathons and triathlons are differet beasts. Tri's are more fun :D

[kilik2]

I love how they call it a sprint....
I was a sprinter and when I hear that I am like, I hope they aren't going 110% the whole time!!
heart failure anyone? LMAO

[SeR_Cyclops]

lol There is no one on this earth that could sprint 3.1 miles i dont care who you are its just impossible to give 100% for that long of a distance. so i vote on them renaming it lol.

[coyfish]

Trust me after you do olympic distance or longer triathlons. Sprints are like 2 seconds long.

[jbiird317]

ha I am so far from an Olympic distance tri... but I can safely say that i will not do another tri of any distance without at least doing a little bit of swimming first, that was the longest 15 minutes of my life! maybe I'm better suited for a duathlon

[coyfish]

Hehe i think i posted my first swimming experience here. The water was pitch black (couldn't see literally an inch in front of you), freezing cold, so many people . . . just a mess. Ive done a few ocean swims and they are actually more enjoyable imo (unless its crazy wavy). Swimming is the least important aspect of triathlons. Even if you are a poor swimmer you can still get a good time because you don't lose much time in the water. The running is what makes or breaks most people I find. If you can manage to squeeze out 8 min miles after the running and swimming you will be passing 80% of the people. Thats how I pace myself. I hold 20 mph for the 20ish miles on bike and 7.5 min mile pace for the 6 mile run.

[jbiird317]

thats pretty true. I was getting passed pretty badly in the swim, but I held my own on the bike and passed easily twice as many people during the run. Oh and the water was also freezing cold and murky - lots of fun tho, so much that i went out and bought a road bike lol

[coyfish]

Wow hehe triathlons are addicting. Running is great but its just so hard on your body.

Which bike did you get? Are you going to buy aero bars (they help a lot imo)?

[jbiird317]

Wow hehe triathlons are addicting. Running is great but its just so hard on your body.

Which bike did you get? Are you going to buy aero bars (they help a lot imo)?

i was looking at a lot of new bikes, in the starter group, cannondale, trek, but none of them really seemed worth the money they were asking. So I found a used Schwinn. It's fairly old, but almost never used (less than 100 miles logged on it). it has some upgrades - new seat, new wheels and tires, new brakes and soon new pedals, but it still has the old school handlebars and downtube shifters

[coyfish]

Yeah I got a used bike too off ebay. You can prob get aero bars for 100 bucks that allows you to go into the aero postion. After you get used to that there is no going back.

[bigdaddy]

I run cross country and track for my HS

[bigdaddy]

ha I am so far from an Olympic distance tri... but I can safely say that i will not do another tri of any distance without at least doing a little bit of swimming first, that was the longest 15 minutes of my life! maybe I'm better suited for a duathlon

damn... an olympian?

[jbiird317]

damn... an olympian?

tri distances are given funny names: sprint, olympic, and ironman. It's not actually the olympics haha

[Marmeladeone]

anyone else run? whether for fitness, for fun, to race, or whatever reason?

Hello,

I'm running for fun and fitness every morning (3 miles).

[jred321]

i'm going to train for the month of august for the philly marathon on nov 22nd. if august goes well i'm going to sign up for it. i hurt my back in soccer earlier in the summer so haven't done a whole lot and need a goal to get back in shape. it'll be my first endurance race of any kind. should be fun :)

[jbiird317]

sweet, but dont wait too long, its a very popular race and it sells out quickly!

I may do the half or the 8k, havent decided just yet...

[jred321]

good to know. so far so good with the back :) don't want to sign up only 1 week into training though. a lot can go wrong

[navyagspeed3]

Hey I was thinking about running in the Philly too. Looks like it could be a good time. I'm going to be stationed in the DC area. Its worth the drive right?

[ehidle]

I only run in the winter time to maintain fitness while it is too cold to ride my bike...

[SeR_Cyclops]

Well Guys, I have finally started running again. I graduated high school in 2007 where i ran track and XC, I have finally started running again. And wow I really have missed it over the past few years.

[jred321]

marathon training is going well. today's run was a 7.5 mile one at a 7:19 pace. i know it's not great or anything but it's good for me. saturday is a 17-18 mile run. should be a good time

[jbiird317]

marathon training is going well. today's run was a 7.5 mile one at a 7:19 pace. i know it's not great or anything but it's good for me. saturday is a 17-18 mile run. should be a good time

i hope youve signed up already, philly marathon is sold out!

i want to do a half in the springtime, I really want to break 90 mins... last year i had 1 hr 36 mins

[blueprotegelx]

any of you guys ever had plantar fasciitis? I have it bad. I bought Asics GT-2140's which I love and Powerstep orthotics. I've been doing towel crunchs, icing, IBU, and stretching. My athletic trainer instructor told me to try night splints and I can't afford them so he mentioned rigging a way to keep my feet dorsiflexed overnight. I've been doing elliptical for a few weeks now and decided to go run yesterday and my feet killed my so i just walked it.

Any other advice guys?

[jred321]

i hope youve signed up already, philly marathon is sold out!

yep signed up at the end of august right before the price went up :)

just got back from my run. went ok. 7:55 pace for 17.5 miles. i'll take it :)

[coyfish]

Thats great Jred. Ive been pushing myself too hard lately. Only running about 3-5 miles at 6:30 min pace. Thats after biking or swimming though. Anyway im getting some pretty nasty leg pain. Not sure if you remember my huge posts in this thread. Very frustrating. Guess ill have to stick to cycling for a while. I cant stand swimming. SO boring.

[tunersteve]

This is something I really need to get into and get a regimen down. I would really like to start doing more cardio, and since high school, I don't work out as much as I should. I've been contemplating trying to set up some sort of running regimen for myself and start to build up and eventually do some 5k/10k runs next year.

Good thing is that I was a running specialist at Dick's Sporting Goods for about 2 years, so the footwear aspect of running is something I know very well. It's more about building up a program and staying with it at this point. I'm gonna go back through and skim this thread for more info.

[jred321]

do p90x :)

[tunersteve]

do p90x :)

I will eventually, I need to back to working out in general again.

I'm gonna start with 1 mile at about a 9 min pace this week, then slowly increase until I'm down around 7:30, then increase my distance by a half mile each time. I'd like to get up to around 4 miles, but I know it's going to take some time. I actually need to pick up a new pair of shoes too. My Mizuno's are a little worn out.

[neg.split]

any of you guys ever had plantar fasciitis? I have it bad. I bought Asics GT-2140's which I love and Powerstep orthotics. I've been doing towel crunchs, icing, IBU, and stretching. My athletic trainer instructor told me to try night splints and I can't afford them so he mentioned rigging a way to keep my feet dorsiflexed overnight. I've been doing elliptical for a few weeks now and decided to go run yesterday and my feet killed my so i just walked it.

Any other advice guys?

Sounds crazy, but try strengthening your feet by running/walking barefoot. Go to a park or grassy area and start out by walking or slowly jogging around just to get a feel. Slowly build up from there until you feel comfortable gradually running on harder surfaces. Do some research on barefoot running and you will find a lot of people who swear by it. I've added some barefoot running to my training over the past few months and I have noticed an improvement in my running efficiency and foot pain.

[coyfish]

I will eventually, I need to back to working out in general again.

I'm gonna start with 1 mile at about a 9 min pace this week, then slowly increase until I'm down around 7:30, then increase my distance by a half mile each time. I'd like to get up to around 4 miles, but I know it's going to take some time. I actually need to pick up a new pair of shoes too. My Mizuno's are a little worn out.

I think its a better idea to work on distance before working on speed. Once you get decent distance under your belt then the speed will come. 1 mile is really nothing so sprinting it won't offer too many benefits.

[jred321]

3 weeks til my day of pain. yay?

[tricky]

Question, have any of you looked into minimalist and or barefoot running? I've started reading up on it and it looks to be very promising. Just curious if any of you have tried or have thoughts to share.

I really want to start the conversion but so far I can't find a general "how to" which would kinda help. I've been running for 20yrs so I think I'll be able to listen to my body but any other info / how to stuff would be nice.

edit: neg.split, I think you're the guy I need to talk to. Do I just start with 1mi of barefoot at the end of each run like 3 times a week and slowly progress or is that still too much to start with?

[coyfish]

Question, have any of you looked into minimalist and or barefoot running? I've started reading up on it and it looks to be very promising. Just curious if any of you have tried or have thoughts to share.

I really want to start the conversion but so far I can't find a general "how to" which would kinda help. I've been running for 20yrs so I think I'll be able to listen to my body but any other info / how to stuff would be nice.

edit: neg.split, I think you're the guy I need to talk to. Do I just start with 1mi of barefoot at the end of each run like 3 times a week and slowly progress or is that still too much to start with?

There is another running thread called barefoot running anyone else try it. Check it out.

[tunersteve]

I think its a better idea to work on distance before working on speed. Once you get decent distance under your belt then the speed will come. 1 mile is really nothing so sprinting it won't offer too many benefits.

That's my basic plan. Shoot for distance, then improve on time. As I said before, I'd like to hit 3-4 miles 3 times a week, and eventually get down around an 8 min/mile pace (which I don't think is all that bad).

[jred321]

Ran my first marathon on Sunday. It was a great day for it. I beat my goal of 3:30:00 and finished in 3:27:50. My left knee started hurting around mile 7 and it still hurts but I'll live. I'm pleased with my first distance race performance.

[jred321]

http://results.active.com/pages/oneResult.jsp?pID=69841759&rsID=87672&pubID=3 official results (don't know if linking will work)

[coyfish]

Congrats man. Great achievement.

[jred321]

thanks

[jbiird317]

Great job man, you had a perfect running day too. Last year's philly marathon was like 30 degrees at the start

[jred321]

thanks. it was a beautiful day. i went to last year's philly marathon and i was glad i wasn't running.

[neg.split]

Nice job!

[jred321]

Gracias