Guidelines for your MSP in the Winter

[Rush]

Seeing as every fall/winter, threads always pop up about how the MSP deals with wintry conditions, I figured we could all use a Sticky -- for reference, and as a place where us 'northerners' could help each other out with stuff. :)

So, if you have any recommendations for a winter setup to use on your MSP, or any experiences that you think would be helpful to share .. Post away!

And I guess I'll get things started ..

First off, for anyone that still has the stock Bridgestone Potenza tires -- DO NOT RUN THEM IN THE SNOW. This is one of the most foolish things you could EVER do with your MSP. The stock tires are NOT meant to be used in winter weather, and are essentially useless. Go out and buy yourself a good set of winter tires! I've personally run Pirelli SnowSports for five winters, which worked fantastically -- but I finally had to buy some new tires this fall. I went with Hankook iPikes this time around, and will post some feedback as soon as I have it to give.

It's also very common for people to run different wheels in the winter, to spare their nice wheels from being damaged by salts and other road sprays. It's recommended that you get 'thinner' ones -- as the 'thinner' the wheel, the better the traction you'll get in the snow. I believe 6" wide is relatively common. Also, wheels with a diameter down to 15" will fit over the MSP calipers. Steel wheels are rather popular, since they're cheap and you don't have to worry about keeping them pretty through all the salt and gravel.

[MSP2024]

i run the same tires year round. i just figure if you take it eazy on it and dont stomp on it you will do just fine in the winter, oh and i know my MSP and my buddys MP3 have a hard time starting in the winter so dont freak out if it takes a min to start, oh and make sure you spray the salt off your car, utah is notrious for using a hell of a lot of salt for the roads

[KrayzieFox]

This is gonna be my first boosted winter (P5 w/ MSP T25 @6 psi) but the last two winters I've used 195/50 Hankook IceBears (W300) on OEM 16" P5 wheels with fantastic results. We don't get a TON of snow in Iowa, but the tires do pretty damn good and are relatively cheap. I picked mine up for about $70 a tire at tires-easy.com

I've also heard amazing things about the Bridgestone Blizzaks, and Tire Rack seems to be having a clearance on them. $75 a tire in 215/55 R17

You can do without snow tires, you just gotta take it easy. The biggest difference is in starting up, they definitely help you get going a lot easier.

[powderider87]

I had Ipikes last year and they worked very well for me and relatively cheap as well. But it took awhile to get used to snow tires vs the summer tires i had on, it feels like your riding on a cloud and kinda rolly.

[Castig3]

yokohama's with 15" steelies, are amazing, even though i only used them for one winter and have been storing the car for the rest of the winters. Best investment you can do for your car and for yourself.

[Fudgie]

15" wheels and Nokian Hakkapelittas ftw. The MSP is an animal in the snow. LSD really helps.

[thaikim]

Park her, Drive a beater...

[SleepyMSP]

run some good winters...nokians are a little overkill unless you live in alaska but are still never a bad Idea, I run 195/15/65 perelli Sottozero's and they are kick ass

you need to remember to rotate them in the winter though as the fronts will get chewed up pretty quick if your not careful

Another good thing to get done is rust proofing, not expensive and really works well

This year I'm going to also be hitting up a car bra for the front to protect it from all the crap on the roads

[Velocifero]

If you have upgraded to a 626 IM then expect wierd cold starts, it'll idle high and then want to die when you give it the gas. You can warm the car up and it'll run fine, which is recommended to warm any car anyways before setting on your way and especially turbo cars. Or if you throttle past the "want" to stall portion for a second you'll be fine.

Any IC upgrade with stock ECU and even with the stock IC to some degree, you'll see in increase in fuel cut. Throttle conservativiely.

Increase in clunking. Live with it or get under there and grease. Or clunk fix

[SleepyMSP]

don't forget to convert that CAI to SRI...unless you like paying out your ass in gas

[MSP2024]

don't forget to convert that CAI to SRI...unless you like paying out your ass in gas

i have to run with sri cuz all my plastic coverings are gone haha, i have not ever experienced fuel cut sense i have owned the car kinda weird, and yes with the 626 mani let it warm up a lil bit to get rid of the high idel and almost stalling haha

[Rush]

If you have upgraded to a 626 IM then expect wierd cold starts, it'll idle high and then want to die when you give it the gas.
That drove me nuts, the first winter I drove the car after the IM was installed. Now I know better and I HAVE to warm the car up, or it's the biggest bitch on the face of the earth to get moving.

[Outlawstar98]

My Plans


Park it

Drive a 4 Wheel Drive Vehicle :) (if i can find one by the time it snows)

[MSP2024]

My Plans


Park it

Drive a 4 Wheel Drive Vehicle :) (if i can find one by the time it snows)

probably the eazyst way to keep the msp good for the winter haha that was my original plan i was also going to forge the motor but gettin layed off messed that one up haha

[special--k]

RUST RUST RUST prof your car... More then once!! i got my car Rust prof'd then baught 3 cans of some Canadian made rust prof crap and sprayed everything (except the exaust, and other Obvious thing) but... i tried to get all of the screws and bolts under the hood. as well as soaking the fenders and rockers.

P.S
what do you guys mean by spray it off? are you talking about spraying down the turbo with water? or just cleaning the car in general?

[MSP2024]

=P.S
what do you guys mean by spray it off? are you talking about spraying down the turbo with water? or just cleaning the car in general?

i was talking about spraying the whole car off, that salt shit likes to eat paint

[Scott]

A side note, if people are looking for winter wheels, check out your local junkyard. I had picked up a set of stock mid 90's Dodge Caravan steelies for $30. They weren't impressive, but they would have made perfect winter wheels (if I lived somewhere that saw snow that is).

[Ricktalife]

don't forget to convert that CAI to SRI...unless you like paying out your ass in gas

come again?

[SleepyMSP]

come again?

if you leave your CAI on in the winter, you end up using more gas because colder air = denser air = increased reading from the MAF = mo go juice in the cylinder. depending on where you live you can also experience fuel cut from this.

last year I left my CAI as is for a month in the cold and I was at the gas station every other day...once I changed it to an SRI it was much better

[Patrickenator]

so SRI or tune for cold? I guess the xtra horses aren't worth it in the snow...yay tires spin EVEN FASTER lol

[special--k]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but can i get some Reviews of Winter tires?

I have some old ass Winter tires on my MSP now, but i need some new ones in the months to come, and i really have NO NO NO idea what to go with.

I was thinking about Stud'd. and one have Pros and cons of that?

thanks guys.

[SleepyMSP]

I have the perrelli sotto zero's and they really grip all conditions well, and they're not overly expensive, I got them for ~500

[special--k]

im hoping that i can find a sweet deal after x-mas... i got the Bracket too BTW...
let me know if your still down to install it with me.

[SleepyMSP]

im hoping that i can find a sweet deal after x-mas... i got the Bracket too BTW...
let me know if your still down to install it with me.

always down...but I think today is a little cold... -30C today +1C tomorrow WTF

[special--k]

are you Crazy!! lol
i would never work on a car in this Temp.

My GF is leaving on the 16th for a month... so that gives me a month to work on my car starting the 16th... can we try for some time in there?

dont forget +11 Wednesday WTF for real!

[speed1585]

Once in awhile I get surges mostly while in 4th gear. not normal surges but enough to render accelration worthless. happened this morning was about 32 degrees. I know I sound like an Rtard, forgive?

Is this fuel cut or is something else fucked off? this happens in the summer sometimes too, mostly while heat soaked. but happens when cold out side maybe 2/100 times

[TiPapoute]

Once in awhile I get surges mostly while in 4th gear. not normal surges but enough to render accelration worthless. happened this morning was about 32 degrees. I know I sound like an Rtard, forgive?

Is this fuel cut or is something else fucked off? this happens in the summer sometimes too, mostly while heat soaked. but happens when cold out side maybe 2/100 times

Running the stock ecu? Could just be overwhelmed in fuel... get a unichip or afc!

Stock boost @7psi with cai, hardpipes, smic upgrade and never got that weird feeling nor fuel cuts and in Montréal, temp went down to -4farenheit recently and still running perfectly in every gear! Thanks to SS AFC. :D :D

[SleepyMSP]

i gotz the unichip in there and the car still feels a little sluggish in the last few days...but that might be the 1" thick ice under the tire to LOL

[jeffmsp]

remove the rear sway bar and assembly. it takes the edge off the suspension in the winter, makes it easier to drive and keeps it in better condition thanks to the lack of salts. rust never sleeps. 3 inches of snow on the road here right now, got a 150km commute in the morning. not fun. also get krown rust proofing. yes it works good.

[tricky]

quick ? for all you cold weather peeps. What brand battery are you guys running? I'm going on 5yrs with the stock one (luckily) and my car is starting REALLY hard in this 0 deg weather. I know it's definitely time for a new battery but I really don't want to spend the 150+ for an Optima red top. That said, what brands out there should I be looking at?

[special--k]

Optima

and id be willing to bet that everyone else says the same thing.
Its worth it!

[special--k]

hey sleepy, how do you tune your uni-chip?
did you just leave it stock Tune? or did you send it out?

[SleepyMSP]

its on the stock tune for now...at some point I will either upgrade to a standalone or maybe get JDMSam to hook me up

[withcheese]

Start off in second and keep the revs low, that way your not just spinning your wheels.

[Mutmatt]

dang man... you guys have it good... we had 100 hours of straight negatives like two weeks ago in Duluth MN! it was -45 f with the 20 mph wind off the lake! -20 without wind chill but yesterday it was 30!!! t shirt weather FO SHO

[dodgetech81]

garage it and buy a winter beater best advice i can give lol

[Ricktalife]

year old bump? sweet. I don't know why you Canadians even bother having a car like this in the winter, or even the summer if you guys actually get warm weather.

[mazdaspeedp]

canadians get warm weather and the msp is no too bad in winter

[Valk]

Any ideas for cheap west coast winter tires? Pretty tame on the island but we get occasional snow and my proxas 4s were just not havin it heh.
Doesnt make sense to get winter tires for the one monh it gets cold enough to suck. So any all seasons with above average cold weather performance?

[nightmaresk8r45]

my msp is rusting away big time....every thing under it is COVERED in rust..idk how to stop it or stall it or anything cause theirs just so much.

[isbre]

I tried posting a while back, but it didn't show up... It's an old thread now but winter is coming every year.

Oh darn it's cold here, and has been especially the past 3 years. Every winter it's getting colder, not before WWII it's been as cold as now (or so they say) Normally we see first snow here in the southern part of Norway around February / March but the last years it's been December / January. This year first snow this season came 2 weeks ago.

Well to the point. The MSP is a decent winter car, but watch out for that ultra-sensitive ABS system and the LSD that is working against you on icy conditions, that issuse has nothing to do with the MSP specificly, just an issue with FWD cars with mechanical LSD's (you get wheelspin on both sides and your car skid out of a turn faster than a war without LSD.).
Here are some of the best hints that I can think of. Prepare the car for the season by getting some silicone spray on the rubber seals, charge or even replace the battery, spray on some rust protectant every 3-4 years and get some decent winter tires. On tires; Contrary to popular belief wider is better on all conditions except for at least 5cm (2inches) of unplowed snow and far superior on ice, I'm running on 205/55/16 myself but I am considering getting some in the original dimension if I can find the money for them. The most expensive tires isn't neccesarily the best option, every winter tire has their stong points and weak points, get the set that is most suited for your local conditions.

When driving on icy condtions my best hint is to steer to much and yse the gas pedal to control the understeer, this way you can also use the clutch to cut power to the wheels and get your car back on your side of the road as soon as possible with minimum movement of the steering wheel if you do get out of control (Don't get me wrong, do straighten up the front wheels if you have to, but usually the clutch is the best tool). It's a bit tricky at first and if you don't understand the physics behind this DO NOT even try it. Snow is usualy your friend, there is no problem driving at normal summer interstate speeds on a good road with only snow, it's what you don't see underneath that is causing the troubles, and that can cange very suddenly so keep that in mind.

When starting on a slippery uphill it's important to remeber that you drive a manual transmission, use it to your advantage!. Don't use much gas when starting, I'd say maximum RPM at start would be 1200 and don't mind the extra clutch wear that comes with being gentle with the clutch pedal, start with the E-brake if you have to, but if you can do it with just the normal brake pedal it gives you a better feel and certainly impress your passengers more. When you have started getting some speed change gears only if you have to and when you d:, do it fast. Try to avoid getting over 2000RPM and never go past 2500. Remember that ANY wheelspin is your worst enemy. Master this and you can pretty much stop right beside a AWD SUV stuck in the middle of an uphill, start again and, if you are a bit evil, have your camera ready for the Kodak moment on the AWD drivers head.

My best hint for those of you who are unceratain on how your MSP will react in different situations would be to find some open space with nothing to hit and just fool around and notice how the car is reacting and remember that when you drive on a road with similar conditions.


my msp is rusting away big time....every thing under it is COVERED in rust..idk how to stop it or stall it or anything cause theirs just so much.

Too bad, it's a bad way to figure out that no new car is good againt rust. Just be glad you don't have a similar aged "Old-Guy-Star" (Mercedes) E-class!

[HighSpeed]

I learned the hard way last year when I drove 800+ miles with my MSP thru a Blizzard with summer tires. It took over 24hrs, and was not what I wanted to do. Interstates that were under 1ft. of snow and 2 ft on surface streets. I learned to make every movement very subtle, no jerking, no hard braking, that is what got me home........and I will never, ever, ever,ever,ever do that again!

[isbre]

I learned the hard way last year when I drove 800+ miles with my MSP thru a Blizzard with summer tires. It took over 24hrs, and was not what I wanted to do. Interstates that were under 1ft. of snow and 2 ft on surface streets. I learned to make every movement very subtle, no jerking, no hard braking, that is what got me home........and I will never, ever, ever,ever,ever do that again!

2 ft on surface street, in other words snow all around up to the middle of the headlights, I find it hard to believe that actually, that would make in almost impossible to even open the doors on the car without using all your migth. (But I do remember the weather forcast when I was an exchange student in SD, they said that 36 inches (3 feet) had fallen and the gorund was covered by just over 1 inch of snow.)

And I forgot, when breaking, keep the gears engaged as longible away as possible to maintain control and take away as much control as possfrom the ABS unit.

[HighSpeed]

2 ft on surface street, in other words snow all around up to the middle of the headlights, I find it hard to believe that actually, that would make in almost impossible to even open the doors on the car without using all your migth. (But I do remember the weather forcast when I was an exchange student in SD, they said that 36 inches (3 feet) had fallen and the gorund was covered by just over 1 inch of snow.)

And I forgot, when breaking, keep the gears engaged as longible away as possible to maintain control and take away as much control as possfrom the ABS unit.

I drove from Missouri to Birmingham AL. I left Missouri and there was only dust on the ground. By the time I got to Illinois the roads were terrible. There was 2FT on surface streets that I didnt take. This was the blizzard that hit middle US last year in Jan. Some exits were shut down because the snow was so high. I stopped to eat in Kentucky at McDonalds, had to be towed out of the parking lot and onto the on ramp by a Blazer, I have tons of pix. Not everywhere was 2 ft, but the 2 ft was at exits that were closed and had most of the snow. Believe it or not, I could care less, I stayed up 24hrs in a car to see my 2nd daughter born.....hence the reason I did it.

I think the LSD was my saving grace on this trip, if you are suble it works in your advantage and makes FWD fine for snow.......just have some good tires

[isbre]

The LSD is a very good thing to have on snow, it's bad on ice. I'm sorry if I didn't get the point clear, since it's a very good point. I'm glad you made it to the birth of your 2nd daughter, that would have made it worthwhile, I agree.

I would love to see some pictures. I don't have too many myself, especially since I was in USA on vacation during the worst snow last winter, but I can start anyway. I took some pictures last May since it suddely was a rather heavy snowfall about 3 hours during work time after the ground had been free from snow weeks. I actually measured the snow that day to be 8 inches, that's barely enough to get some snowplow action from the front bumper and doors, but still significant, especially for under 4 hours.

Before starting from work:
http://www.mazdas247.com/members/isbre/forum/MSP_Cell_May10_1.jpg

When I got home it looked a bit like a 323F/P5, let's call this pic "Lazyness":
http://www.mazdas247.com/members/isbre/forum/MSP_Cell_May10_2.jpg

Sorry about the crappy cellphone quality

[asdflovejkl]

Hey guys, I'm having the CEL on on cold starts, happened twice when i left my car out for more than 24hrs in the cold, I have a AEM CAI, i know you guys have worse weather than me since i live in Cali, but just wondering if you guys have any idea to what happened? the CEL went away after 2 or 3 days the first time and it's now on again, just want to make sure it's nothing big..
have yet to get a SSAFC and the engine's almost at 170k kinda worried lol

[Ricktalife]

Go to a local Pep Boy's, Advance Auto or whatever you have in Cali and get the code scanned. They should do it for free, and until you get a number we can't do anything but take a shot in the dark.

[highflyin285]

i want to know some brands of this rust proofing people are using and where your picking it up

[isbre]

i want to know some brands of this rust proofing people are using and where your picking it up

I used Dinitrol, they have a whole line of products from primer, oil and paint. Noxudol is also a good option, they also have the 3100 option that has less rust proofing abilities but more focused on sound deadening, very good if you are interested in stereos.

But I didn't do it myself, it is not very easy to get the metal cleaned good enough and very easy to get moisture trapped and either ones will not just make everything for nothing, but in most cases also make it worse than it was before. It is also very easy to ignore things if you don't have the manual, it isn't smart to bore holes in the wrong places or jam up things like the doorlocks and mirrors - have it professionally done!

[Patrickenator]

whats a ballpark price on 'professional rust-proofing'?

[isbre]

whats a ballpark price on 'professional rust-proofing'?

I really can't tell you how much it will be in the US, I have no idea, but...
I paid 3900NOK (that's somwhere around $650) but it's probably way cheaper "across the pond." Only reason that I wanted to do it back home is that the extreme harsh conditions on the roads at winter in Norway makes for very good rust proofing shops with products that that can handle the at times rather extreme amunts of salt here - and the extra warranty from the rust proofing shop.

To simplyfy: There are two basic product for rust proofing, oil based for encapsulated (hidden) parts and the Tectyle or equivalent thick anti corrosive paint for the panels underneath and inside the wheel arches (above the plastic covers), the best shops use both and the shops will have to hold your car overnight after cleaning and use most of the next day for the treatment. If they don't demand to have your car for at least 24 hrs they will not have the chance to do it right. Sorry that I can't be of more help.

[Patrickenator]

that is still very helpful - thanks!

[HaleTru]

Wow thats a lot of work to prep. Thank goodness our winters are like a mild summer here. I don't really have to worry about any of that, thank goodness. And if it does snow here, they use sand. But the last snow we had was 4 years ago. Am curious though, does boost increase in the winter? just because of the denser air?

[isbre]

Wow thats a lot of work to prep. Thank goodness our winters are like a mild summer here. I don't really have to worry about any of that, thank goodness. And if it does snow here, they use sand. But the last snow we had was 4 years ago. Am curious though, does boost increase in the winter? just because of the denser air?

Boost pressure remains the same, but denser air means more air, it's like putting a slightly bigger turbocharger on at the same pressure, higher bosst spikes might occur though. The thinbg you notice the most is that the cars pulls a bit smoother, but that goes for any car, forced induction or naturally aspirated.

[goldenboy88]

For batteries that aren't top of the line I've used Motomaster Eliminators, good CCA and they've started an older 4.3 that sat overnight in -40ish weather in one shot. As far as fwd winter driving, as previously mentioned find a wide open area where you won't hit anything and just learn how your car reacts, I'm big on parking lot drifting as soon as the first snowfall hits every year so that I can get back in the groove, through that I can add that along with the clutch, counter steer ebrake and throttle to get your car back in the straight, just remember to follow through with the counter steer otherwise your just going to go sideways again. I've only had one accident in the winter and that was sliding 50 ft on black ice while trying to turn out of the way in a rwd truck. Considering I'm a truck driver and a driving junkie, I think I'm doing pretty good. If I upgrade to an msp shortly this will be my first boosted winter so you can bet I'll be spending some time getting used to the car as soon as the fluff falls.

[speedfreak03]

why would you drive your msp in the winter???? it took me well over 5 months to find a decent msp in Minnesota, all were rust buckets since the state uses a chlorine based salt, it eats cars alive. my old BMW had succumb to rust after just 4 1/2 winters. but if you choose to drive yours in the winter that just makes mine worth more.

[Ricktalife]

Not everybody can afford to have 2 cars. After all, we are talking about a Protege. Not exactly like driving a Ferrari in the winter.

[speedfreak03]

winter beaters are cheaper than body work and msp's are very rare

[Mazda Doode]

I'm forced to drive my MSP this winter, first winter it's seen though so I figured one will be okay...especially since we've gotten shit for snow in MN. It'd be nice to have a winter beater too, but I've got no place to store my MSP right now

[super1chow]

my MSP's been stored away since Nov. got this POS to drive for the winter http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/308490_1973298784049_1590420198_31814392_2625435_a .jpg Cost: $1000

MSP way to rare to drive in the winter, mines never seen a winter so it only has 39k miles :D

[Mazda Doode]

The problem I've ran into around my area is anything for $1000 or less is a POS, and needs just as much money into the car as the car costs.

[super1chow]

Damn that sucks, I know this civic is a POS but its not too bad. there no rust just faded paint, which is expected for a 93. theres 216k miles on the body but only around 80k on the d16z6 that was already swapped into it when i got it. So far i havent put any money into it other than gas and oil. Just wait around and jump on good deals man, your bound to find one.

[Mazda Doode]

Sounds like you got a hell of a deal, I just need to move south where there isn't a "winter" haha!

[isbre]

why would you drive your msp in the winter???? it took me well over 5 months to find a decent msp in Minnesota, all were rust buckets since the state uses a chlorine based salt, it eats cars alive. my old BMW had succumb to rust after just 4 1/2 winters. but if you choose to drive yours in the winter that just makes mine worth more.

Proper rust proofing does work, I use mine often in the winter and the worst rust I can find is a little surface rust by one of the stut towers (I only noticed when I really inspected the car for rust before the winter season.) The only problem is maybe that you have to follow up and do it again every three years or so and it's definitely not free. Just be glad you don't run an Audi, some of the newer ones tend to be rust buckets after just 2-3 harsh winters here in Norway.
The MSP is manual, has limited slip differntial and if you know what you're doing it's capable of hill starting at 500 revs or lower and change gear at a split second before you hit boost, and the wheelspin that often comes with it, why not drive it?