MazdaSpeed3 v.s 08' R32 what to buy?

[jpalmerm]

I know you guys are biased but I am trying to make a decision. I drove a 08' MS3 at our local dealer last night and it was a blast but I do live in a snowy climate so AWD would be nice. I do have 2 small kids as well so the 4 doors of the MS3 would be easier.

I have looked online and I can get a 08' R32 with less than 5k miles on it for around the same price I can get a new 08 or 09 MazdaSpeed3.

I would miss not having a manual in the R32. They both come equipped very similiarly. I already know the MS3 is faster but handling/braking is still up to opinon.

So what would you do? I know normally the MS3 is compared (price wise) to the GTI. I drove that as well but it jsut didn't have the same punch ort special-ness of the MS3 or the R32.

Not to put anyone car down but I did think the r32 had a better put together and used higher quality materials for the interior but ti should eb nicer with a $33,000 as new price tag.

I am trying to compare $ for $ what would you get?

thanks

[EVLTSTR]

Well... I just so happen to live in the desert where we do not get snow. In that case I would have opted for the MS3 and I did.

Now I am going to try to state the following WITHOUT a biased view towards the MS3...

I have driven the crap out of a couple r32's. I will tell you, the MS3 is more fun to drive, hands down. The raw power and the resposiveness to the mods are well worth it in my book. Plus, for the cost of the r32 new, I would be looking elsewhere (subie, mitsu, etc...).

On the other hand, I have taken my MS3 up to Salt Lake City and a few various ski resorts in Utah. The car does decent in the snow... Not great, but decent. The sheer torque makes it a little touchy navigating through snow.

Also, Traction control MUST be turned off to go up a steep hill in ice, or the ECU will shut the trottle plate. At this point you will find yourself sliding backwards on ice while shutting the motor off and doing the hokey pokey to disable the traction control so you will be able to climb the hill.

So IMO, Depending on your driving skills, A snowy climate may fair well and if not, I would look into the AWD setup.

If you really like the whole AWD thing, Be advised that the WRX (non-STi) is getting a decent power increase for the 09 models. 280ish hp IIRC. And as I understand, it will still be at a competitive price.

However, I will tell you that I very much love my MS3 and I wouldn't trade it for anything that is out right now. You will not regret your purchase if you go with an MS3.

[jdm justin]

I love the R32, but I don't feel its worth the price tag.

[lestat13]

I would only buy an R32 for the exhaust note.... thats all

[Renzokuken]

I loved the first R32, the new one has a better engine, but everything else around it is crap. The interior is more cheap and tacky looking, the seats arent as bolstered, and dont look as nice as the first generation. They took a BEAUTIFUL car with alot of potential and made it worse. I have test driven it and its got alot of grunt, but the MS3 is still faster IMHO. I do have some good things to say as well. The exhaust note is lovely, the handling is second to none. The engine is more torquier than the first, BUT I wouldnt buy it because its waaaaaaay wwaaaaaaay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay not worth the price tag.

[jpalmerm]

I have found online that I can get a 08' R32 with less then 5k miles for the same price as a new MS3.

[Sacrilicious]

I have found online that I can get a 08' R32 with less then 5k miles for the same price as a new MS3.

translation: used and beaten car versus brand new car.

i would not be holding my breath that the first owner of that r32 took good care of it, because the fact of the matter is that it's built and sold as a sporty car, which makes it a BAD car to buy used...

[ivanhoe]

This should help you answer your question

http://www.webridestv.com/showvideo.aspx?video=47434

[chief_wiggum]

I would only buy an R32 for the exhaust note.... thats all

+1

[Byrnie]

I loved the first R32, the new one has a better engine, but everything else around it is crap. The interior is more cheap and tacky looking, the seats arent as bolstered, and dont look as nice as the first generation. They took a BEAUTIFUL car with alot of potential and made it worse. I have test driven it and its got alot of grunt, but the MS3 is still faster IMHO. I do have some good things to say as well. The exhaust note is lovely, the handling is second to none. The engine is more torquier than the first, BUT I wouldnt buy it because its waaaaaaay wwaaaaaaay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay not worth the price tag.

oh man i loved the '04 R32 too. The exhaust note and the seats were so neat. The new one is crap IMO and way overpriced since the interior is shit, comparatively-speaking to the old R32.

[assman]

The MS3 does great in the snow, dont let that bias you.

[Je5ter]

MS3 is awesome in the snow. I live in Calgary and we get a ton of snow in the winter.. Get a decent set of winter tires ($800) and your good to go :P

[robin2660]

I know you guys are biased but I am trying to make a decision. I drove a 08' MS3 at our local dealer last night and it was a blast but I do live in a snowy climate so AWD would be nice. I do have 2 small kids as well so the 4 doors of the MS3 would be easier.

I have looked online and I can get a 08' R32 with less than 5k miles on it for around the same price I can get a new 08 or 09 MazdaSpeed3.

I would miss not having a manual in the R32. They both come equipped very similiarly. I already know the MS3 is faster but handling/braking is still up to opinon.

So what would you do? I know normally the MS3 is compared (price wise) to the GTI. I drove that as well but it jsut didn't have the same punch ort special-ness of the MS3 or the R32.

Not to put anyone car down but I did think the r32 had a better put together and used higher quality materials for the interior but ti should eb nicer with a $33,000 as new price tag.

I am trying to compare $ for $ what would you get?

thanks

Generally speaking, for driving on snow, AWD>FD>RD, but buy how much? And what does this mean to you on a daily basis?

You say you're in a snowy area. Where? How much snow and how often? Hills? Depending on conditions, I've seen some RWD cars handle better than AWD simply due to clearance issues.

Remember, AWD only helps you go in snow, not stop, which is the greatest issue in snow driving. The most important benefit of AWD vs FD is for competition or extreme driving, none for which either car was designed, and I doubt you will use it in that manner.

The GTI is a nice car. You could buy that and chip it for lots more performance. But, it's a VW, which would sway me in terms of maintenance and reliability.

Also don't forget the new WRX but I think it's gonna cost more than MS3 or GTI. Edit: Estimated retail is $27.5K (MotorTrend). I knew it was gonna be priced higher! ;-)

[opt_ms3]

the MS3 is just more practical with 4 doors, and you still got the hatch

[jpalmerm]

I am in the Spokane, WA area so we get maybe a couple feet of snow a year. Last year we got a ton and I was still able to get around in my 2000 Saab Viggen 5 door with 4 studded snows. The Viggen was actually better in the snow then my 2007 Nissan Titan 4x4.

My wife isn't a big fan of Japanese cars and since whatever car I decide will eventually be hers she has some choice in the matter. But for the next couple years I will be driving it until she graduates from nursing school unless I really enjoy it and she can get something else.

[wisniaPl]

for that price get an evo :p

[tiagotiago]

Coming from the experience of owning a VW before (a 2000 New beetle), I'd be weary of buying another veedub. I've stated before that if it wasn't for the bunch of electrical gremlins and bad service I got at my only local VW stealership, I'd probably be driving a GTI right now instead of the MS3.

I'm guessing you're already frequenting some VW/r32 forum. Just check out what kind of problems r32s and GTI's are having, maybe they've sorted them out by now. Like any other car, you'll find people with good experiences, just check out which side makes the majority.

And I'll +1 robin2660's comment too.

[PCspeed3]

IMO the interior of the R32 looks like hell. my friend just got a new GTI and I actullay like his interior better then the rawr32. If I was you I would import an audi S3 from mexico.

[SSMS3]

Consumer Reports also rates them very low while the MS3 is a best buy

[jabba]

For the same price I would stick with the MS3.

Why? Well the 2-doors only is the first issue. Second is reliability. Third is the lack of modding potential.

Overall, I wasn't all that impressed with the interior quality of the R32. My colleague at work, who has just returned from a 3 year stint in Germany and is now a German car snob, was very impressed with the quality of the MS3 (he had unkind words to say about the old Proteges, though).

The only thing the R32 has going for it as opposed to the MS3 is the "German" aura of mystery. Otherwise, I'd have to say it's no better, and I'd go with a brand new MS3 that you know hasn't been beaten.

[tiagotiago]

IMO the interior of the R32 looks like hell. my friend just got a new GTI and I actullay like his interior better then the rawr32. If I was you I would import an audi S3 from mexico.

?

I hope you don't mean a new S3, +-40K USD (http://www.audi.com.mx/audi/mx/es2/new_cars/Audi_Modelos_S/Precios.html) isn't really a bargain.

[Graf Orlok]

Since I have a family too, the 2-door R32 was out of the question. I considered a 4-door GTI but reliability ratings and previous experience w/ my Audi A6 kept me away from going VW.
BTW. I'm German and usually lean more in that direction when it comes to cars but I must say I have no disappointment w/ my MS3 so far.

[BillTheCat]

As a previous VW owner ('01 Golf GLS 1.8T), I have been leary of VW for reliability issues. I've had my best luck with Mazda & Toyota over the years (20 years, 3 Mazda's 3 Toyota's, 8-10 others, foreign & domestic)

That said, for price & performance, I looked at the GTI. Did NOT like the DSG. Normal mode was sluggish, while "Sport" mode should have been re-labelled "Drag Race" mode. No happy medium for spirited daily driving. (I am a manual transmission guy, so anything remotely Auto gets a close & weary inspection from me)

Then there's the cost of repairing a DSG. Nobody really knows the long-term reliability for them, or how expensive it'll be to repair them. Good clutch job can run you close to a grand. So how much more for 2 of everything? What about the electronics & such? Then let's get into the R32 & repair costs on an AWD system...

Those thoughts kept me from bothering with the R32. Decent car, but overpriced, IMHO.

I had actually decided to go CHEAP and get an '09 Scion xB, which I had on order. But when it ran a week past its due date, I got itchy. Went out last night & drove the MS3, fell in love. Brought it right home. It wasn't as spur of the moment as that, as I had researched the MS3 when I was also looking at the GTI, WRX, and a few others. But the test drive cinched it for me.

If snow handling is an overriding concern, then get a jacked up 4-door 4WD truck of some sort. Why compromise, right? (I'm just yanking yer chain) Plenty of people do just fine with FWD in the snow- I think it's more about driving skill and the driver's familiarity with their car than anything else.

Personally, I prefer the MS3. I learned to drive in Upstate NY, but have lived most of my adult life in Florida, so snow is not a going concern for me. I also think the MS3's seats are more comfortable than the R32. Plus, I am a mad modder, and with the MS3 already having forced induction, it's easier to squeeze more fun out of it if you decide to go that route.

Let us know what you decide & what finally sways the decision!

[parkerfe]

As a previous VW owner ('01 Golf GLS 1.8T), I have been leary of VW for reliability issues. I've had my best luck with Mazda & Toyota over the years (20 years, 3 Mazda's 3 Toyota's, 8-10 others, foreign & domestic)

That said, for price & performance, I looked at the GTI. Did NOT like the DSG. Normal mode was sluggish, while "Sport" mode should have been re-labelled "Drag Race" mode. No happy medium for spirited daily driving. (I am a manual transmission guy, so anything remotely Auto gets a close & weary inspection from me)

Then there's the cost of repairing a DSG. Nobody really knows the long-term reliability for them, or how expensive it'll be to repair them. Good clutch job can run you close to a grand. So how much more for 2 of everything? What about the electronics & such? Then let's get into the R32 & repair costs on an AWD system...

Those thoughts kept me from bothering with the R32. Decent car, but overpriced, IMHO.

I had actually decided to go CHEAP and get an '09 Scion xB, which I had on order. But when it ran a week past its due date, I got itchy. Went out last night & drove the MS3, fell in love. Brought it right home. It wasn't as spur of the moment as that, as I had researched the MS3 when I was also looking at the GTI, WRX, and a few others. But the test drive cinched it for me.

If snow handling is an overriding concern, then get a jacked up 4-door 4WD truck of some sort. Why compromise, right? (I'm just yanking yer chain) Plenty of people do just fine with FWD in the snow- I think it's more about driving skill and the driver's familiarity with their car than anything else.

Personally, I prefer the MS3. I learned to drive in Upstate NY, but have lived most of my adult life in Florida, so snow is not a going concern for me. I also think the MS3's seats are more comfortable than the R32. Plus, I am a mad modder, and with the MS3 already having forced induction, it's easier to squeeze more fun out of it if you decide to go that route.

Let us know what you decide & what finally sways the decision!

While I too went with the MS3 over the GTI, you can get the GTI with a 6 speed manual rather than the DSG.

[coololddude]

i would get the new MS3. even if i got stuck in the snow, i would rather be caught dead in a MS3 than a R32!! hee-hee

[mrjoshyman]

get the MS3, not just because of the fact that I own one. but seriously, as stated previously much better interior, faster in a straight line, with suspension mods you will out handle an R32, the aftermarket for the MS3 is pretty decent and still expanding -- in regards to the snow...get a pair of snow wheels/tires and just swap uhm out with ur summer wheels/tires @ the beginning and end of the season...no biggie.