Sport Compact Car magazine

[ericrapp]

Regardless of how it turns out there are some big boys building 3s. And TriPoint is involved again! check it out folks

[evilmonkeyMSP]

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/Kasper123_2007/lolwut.jpg

[mazdaspeed777]

Regardless of how it turns out there are some big boys building 3s. And TriPoint is involved again! check it out folks

Give us a link or somethin?!(dunno) (hand) (scratch) (uhm) (huh) (shrug)

[mazdaspeed777]

I think this is the article he is thinking about:

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/sccp_0809_mazdaspeed3/index.html

[Kain]

This thread is like having the front cover and last chapter of a book, and throwing out the rest. Good thing I have this issue so I know what you're talking about. Good luck to it, but my money's on the NSX or the 350z.

[Kain]

I think this is the article he is thinking about:

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/sccp_0809_mazdaspeed3/index.html

He's talking about the November '08 issue, which features the contestants for this year's USCC. One of them is a turbo'd Mazda3.

[ericrapp]

Thanks fellas for paying attention. and its a series article, so more to come. using tripoint turbod mazda3 with Motec engine management. BRracing is an incredible team for you guys who do not know about them. Hopefully we get some good info about the potential of and from our cars as this feature rolls along! sorry I get excited about this stuff

[dkswim]

i think the car is cool but i dought it will pull of the win FWD has never won and most highly moded dont win its mildly moded rwd/awd that win, FWD always come in close to last beating the cars that break down. i wish him luck its a really nice car but relisticly i dont think it will place high enough consistontly to win. the car might pull 1 or 2 top finishes but the rest will be lower mid and a couple last place finishes.

[mrjoshyman]

I think this is the article he is thinking about:

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/sccp_0809_mazdaspeed3/index.html

those 0-60 numbers are weak, some magazines are posting around 5.5 for a stock MS3...

[coololddude]

5.4-car and driver May 07

[ericrapp]

Regardless of how it turns out there are some big boys building 3s. And TriPoint is involved again! check it out folksThe article is the ultimate street car challenge in the November issue. No, we do not stand a chance, but what performance can be pulled out of this motor really interests me. And how they tune it. I have never used Motec. I am going to try to contact The Bergenholtz Team after the results are in.

[ericrapp]

those 0-60 numbers are weak, some magazines are posting around 5.5 for a stock MS3... So we are probably running about 5 or under with tires and mods!

[15min5k]

So we are probably running about 5 or under with tires and mods!

5.1 - 5.3

[ericrapp]

nice, nice i am about to break into 12s without a tune these cars are fast

[dkswim]

follow up the car did better then i thought it would they pulled off 5th place next contestant was 100pt ahead im sure if the adjustable cam gear didn't slip and if he would have brought some r-comp tires he could have closed the gap and been in 3rd or 4th place. either way it did beter then i thought it would. the winner was an evo x 10pts ahead of the next contender the 350 z that i thought would have pulled off the win.

The mazda was within tenths of a second of an evo VIII in the road corse. another mean feat. the cam ended up only affecting two of the test 1/4 mile and 20-100 and the tires would have helped out on the skidpad and the braking and road corse.

[ericrapp]

oh shit I forgot to get the most recent issue. Do not tell me anymore! But thanks for the reminder.

[Babyface13]

Looks like Doug and I get the same magazines LOL Its a good read none the less.

[Kain]

I just picked up this issue after glancing through the article today. Seems like some issues between testing could've made the Mazda3 close the gap in the final standings. Nevertheless, middle of the pack considering the opposition is nothing to sneeze at.

[ZooMIN3]

lol

thanks for the update! its hard to get this sorta news without a subscription... plus there isn't a mag/book store near me for that matter...lol

[Hambino]

So much for all that MS3 is better than the Evo X bs. 4B11T > MZR everyday of the week.

[Hambino]

follow up the car did better then i thought it would they pulled off 5th place next contestant was 100pt ahead im sure if the adjustable cam gear didn't slip and if he would have brought some r-comp tires he could have closed the gap and been in 3rd or 4th place. either way it did beter then i thought it would. the winner was an evo x 10pts ahead of the next contender the 350 z that i thought would have pulled off the win.

The mazda was within tenths of a second of an evo VIII in the road corse. another mean feat. the cam ended up only affecting two of the test 1/4 mile and 20-100 and the tires would have helped out on the skidpad and the braking and road corse.

Just imagine if the Evo X and Z had r-compound too.

[15min5k]

So much for all that MS3 is better than the Evo X bs. 4B11T > MZR everyday of the week.

Where did you come from and wtf are you talking about?

[Kain]

So much for all that MS3 is better than the Evo X bs.

Makes sense... y'know, if there actually was an MS3 in this competition.

[Hambino]

Makes sense... y'know, if there actually was an MS3 in this competition.

Find me an MS3 making that kind of power. It all becomes the same at that level. As if it would make any difference what the badge said. FF still fails.


Where did you come from and wtf are you talking about?

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123703491

Started in this thread. That's cool loving the MS3, but the Evo X is just another level.

[fastdreams]

So much for all that MS3 is better than the Evo X bs. 4B11T > MZR everyday of the week.


Was that ever in question?

[Kain]

Find me an MS3 making that kind of power. It all becomes the same at that level. As if it would make any difference what the badge said. FF still fails.

I don't think anyone rational and not a raving fanboy would disagree with you. I just found the statement amusing since there wasn't even an MS3 in the competition. It would be like a showdown between a cabbage and orange with the cabbage emerging the winner, then someone shouting, "see, told ya the cantelope sucked!" because they both happen to be fruit. lawl.

[AWDthis]

Whats this? $24k car vs $32k car? (braindead

Edit: AND IMO the MS3's interior is WAAAYY better...

[15min5k]

Whats this? $24k car vs $32k car? (braindead

Edit: AND IMO the MS3's interior is WAAAYY better...

Power to weight is about the same as well (approx, 12lbs per hp vs. 12lbs per hp ). EVO will obviously launch better due to AWD if you like stop light racing and don't mind reeking havoc on your drive train but in real world passing maneuvers the speed3 is just as quick if not faster than an EVO X. However, if you spend most of your life at the race track or in a snowy climate the EVO X would be fantastic but most of us don’t and can’t justify spending the extra 10k, higher maintenance cost, insurance, etc for an EVO. The only EVO I've driven is the 9 and it's a lot quicker than the 10, my car with just a cobb sri is dead even with the 9 from a rolling start in second and beyond.

[dkswim]

Just imagine if the Evo X and Z had r-compound too.

all the other cars were on r-comp tires the ms3 showed up in street tires for some reason. but i cant say much i cant just go out and buy some r-comps on a whim esspecialy if they are going to be abused in just one weekend.

[Hambino]

Power to weight is about the same as well (approx, 12lbs per hp vs. 12lbs per hp ). EVO will obviously launch better due to AWD if you like stop light racing and don't mind reeking havoc on your drive train but in real world passing maneuvers the speed3 is just as quick if not faster than an EVO X. However, if you spend most of your life at the race track or in a snowy climate the EVO X would be fantastic but most of us don’t and can’t justify spending the extra 10k, higher maintenance cost, insurance, etc for an EVO. The only EVO I've driven is the 9 and it's a lot quicker than the 10, my car with just a cobb sri is dead even with the 9 from a rolling start in second and beyond.

Who compares cars stock to stock? Evo X's are making 400whp with bolt-ons. Agency and AMS are both now in the 500's. Stock motor. The 4G63 can't even compare to the 4B11T. There is absolutely no comparison between the MS3 and Evo X. How could you compare the MS3 to a car where a simple EcuTek tune puts you into near flat 12's? One is a dominate force on the track, the other is a fun street/sports car.

[Hambino]

I don't think anyone rational and not a raving fanboy would disagree with you. I just found the statement amusing since there wasn't even an MS3 in the competition. It would be like a showdown between a cabbage and orange with the cabbage emerging the winner, then someone shouting, "see, told ya the cantelope sucked!" because they both happen to be fruit. lawl.

While humorous, that's not even close to an appropriate analogy. It's a Mazda 3. Sorry, that Mazda 3 that was in the USCC is more engineered than any MS3 you are likely to ever come across, ever. Motec on a Can Bus system? Come on now. They are the same platform, and sans a motor/trans, the same car. You make it seem like a MS3 could roll in on bolt-ons with a set of tires and level the playing field. Sure we can get into semantics about suspension and sway-bars, but the MS3 can't even out-handle the new Cobalt SS.

[Hambino]

all the other cars were on r-comp tires the ms3 showed up in street tires for some reason. but i cant say much i cant just go out and buy some r-comps on a whim esspecialy if they are going to be abused in just one weekend.

You're correct. For whatever reason I had been thinking of slicks. They all run on r-compounds. For some reason the Mazda ran on yoko advan neova's.

[Hambino]

Lets not confuse the situation though, I like the MS3, at one time I considered getting one. But there is far too much "What a waste of money when I get this for half the price and its faster" nonsense.

[15min5k]

While humorous, that's not even close to an appropriate analogy. It's a Mazda 3. Sorry, that Mazda 3 that was in the USCC is more engineered than any MS3 you are likely to ever come across, ever. Motec on a Can Bus system? Come on now. They are the same platform, and sans a motor/trans, the same car. You make it seem like a MS3 could roll in on bolt-ons with a set of tires and level the playing field. Sure we can get into semantics about suspension and sway-bars, but the MS3 can't even out-handle the new Cobalt SS.

Niether does the EVO and it's a whopping 10k + more!

[Kain]

While humorous, that's not even close to an appropriate analogy. It's a Mazda 3. Sorry, that Mazda 3 that was in the USCC is more engineered than any MS3 you are likely to ever come across, ever. Motec on a Can Bus system? Come on now. They are the same platform, and sans a motor/trans, the same car. You make it seem like a MS3 could roll in on bolt-ons with a set of tires and level the playing field. Sure we can get into semantics about suspension and sway-bars, but the MS3 can't even out-handle the new Cobalt SS.

I don't think anyone rational and not a raving fanboy would disagree with you.
You're wasting your posts on me because you're preaching the choir. Your efforts are better left for the OMGMS3OWNZALL nutswingers. I've held the Evo in high regard as a track machine even before most people ever heard of the Lancer Evolution in this country. Had that been a higher priority for me when I was car shopping this past summer, I would've got one (the GSR trim. I know the MR tranny shifts faster than I could ever hope to do myself, but I'm old school like that). But my main criteria was first and foremost a family and stuff hauler, which is why I first considered a Fit, regular Mazda3 and even a mini-minivan like the Mazda5. This isn't my track car (I'll have another vehicle dedicated for that), but I wanted a little more oomph and not spend a lot getting it. That's why I got the MS3.

One is a dominate force on the track, the other is a fun street/sports car.
Couldn't have summarized it better myself.

[desperado-c]

Niether does the EVO and it's a whopping 10k + more!
+1. The Cobalt weighs a lot less for one thing and who ever said Chevy doesn't know how to tune a suspension when they want to? The Cobalt outhandles a lot of cars.

Also, the MS3 was on OLD tires to boot.

[Hambino]

Niether does the EVO and it's a whopping 10k + more!

Actually, no. We're not even going to get into why the Evo X MR is a piece of shit. If you'd like to see if you can beat a GSR lap-time up at limerock, I openly invite you to come up.

[Alexsered]

So much for all that MS3 is better than the Evo X bs. 4B11T > MZR everyday of the week.

dude, the EVO X is conplete junk, I would take the EVO 9 over the EVo X any day. Please

[Alexsered]

Actually, no. We're not even going to get into why the Evo X MR is a piece of shit. If you'd like to see if you can beat a GSR lap-time up at limerock, I openly invite you to come up.

what are you smoking man? Ask and previous evo tuner and ask them if they like the new evo. LOL

The new evo X Will never handle as much power as the previous one.

[Kooldino]

So much for all that MS3 is better than the Evo X bs. 4B11T > MZR everyday of the week.

True story.

The 3 held it's own in the USCC this year, but wasn't even in the same league as the Evo X. The best part? The Evo X had a bone stock motor with a bolt-on turbo upgrade and a tune.

So to all the guys who put me on blast for choosing an Evo X over a Speed 3 for my current car, this is exactly why. It just has more potential.

[Alexsered]

True story.

The 3 held it's own in the USCC this year, but wasn't even in the same league as the Evo X. The best part? The Evo X had a bone stock motor with a bolt-on turbo upgrade and a tune.

So to all the guys who put me on blast for choosing an Evo X over a Speed 3 for my current car, this is exactly why. It just has more potential.

what do you mean by potential? Every evo tuner has pretty much said that these engines are never going to handle the power that the previous evo's could. I'm glad you picked an evo, but there is a 1300hp mzr Mazdaspeed3 drag car running in the high 6's. Power can be made out of both of these engines with enough money. I'm sorry to tell you, but the MZR and the new Evo X engine will handle about the same amount of power before they go BOOM. You just got AWD and more horsepower stock, thats about it.

[Kooldino]

I don't think anyone rational and not a raving fanboy would disagree with you.

Bingo, but Kyle and I have been in countless arguments with some Mazda fanbois who won't admit that the X is a more capable car.

But just like you pointed out, they weren't being rational.


I just found the statement amusing since there wasn't even an MS3 in the competition. It would be like a showdown between a cabbage and orange with the cabbage emerging the winner, then someone shouting, "see, told ya the cantelope sucked!" because they both happen to be fruit. lawl.

Not exactly. The Mazda 3 in that contest will outperform even a well modified MS3...and overall it's the same car.

[Kooldino]

dude, the EVO X is conplete junk, I would take the EVO 9 over the EVo X any day. Please

(hand)

So the first Evo to EVER win a USCC was an evo X, but they're junk? Even though in the competition the Evo X with BOLT ONS spanked an Evo IX with a 2.3 stroker and a ton of work done to it?

You sir, are the fale.

[Kooldino]

The new evo X Will never handle as much power as the previous one.

Actually if you read the USCC article, you'd see that the opposite is true.

The AMS Evo X ran 487whp with an upgraded turbo kit. A fully built Evo IX with a 2.3 stroker made 7whp less.

Still not enough?

There are companies that put out 600whp on a STOCK evo X motor. That's crazy talk.

[DaleNixon]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/DaleNixon/Ilikewherethisthreadisgoing.jpg

[Alexsered]

Actually if you read the USCC article, you'd see that the opposite is true.

The AMS Evo X ran 487whp with an upgraded turbo kit. A fully built Evo IX with a 2.3 stroker made 7whp less.

Still not enough?

There are companies that put out 600whp on a STOCK evo X motor. That's crazy talk.

lol, AMS has an EVO 9 with over 1000 hp. Please post a link of a 600whp on a STOCK EVO X motor. Please, I can't believe you get away with such crazy talk on this forum.

Do you want to even compare the 4g63 iron block to the all aluminum 4b11? I'm not a complete evo hater, because I love what people can do with the previous evo's, but this new one will never compete, and the only reason it won was because of the new AWD handling system and just how good the EVO X handles. But when you are going to start talking about how the 4b11 is a better motor than the 4G63, people that know anything about this are going to laugh in your face. This thread needs to be closed, it's getting to the point of being retarded.

[Super Unique]

what do you mean by potential? Every evo tuner has pretty much said that these engines are never going to handle the power that the previous evo's could. I'm glad you picked an evo, but there is a 1300hp mzr Mazdaspeed3 drag car running in the high 6's. Power can be made out of both of these engines with enough money. I'm sorry to tell you, but the MZR and the new Evo X engine will handle about the same amount of power before they go BOOM. You just got AWD and more horsepower stock, thats about it.

Whatever the rationalizations/comparisons you can make between a speed3 and an evo whatever, just know that the 6 second mazda on the drag scene has an engine that only FAINTLY resembles that in the stock speed3 as sold on dealer lots. (smash)

ie they both have 4 cylinders and run on gasoline.........

[Alexsered]

Whatever the rationalizations/comparisons you can make between a speed3 and an evo whatever, just know that the 6 second mazda on the drag scene has an engine that only FAINTLY resembles that in the stock speed3 as sold on dealer lots. (smash)

:wtf:(scratch) umm... duh?

[Kooldino]

what do you mean by potential?

Potential as in how fast you can ultimately make these cars (within reason).


Every evo tuner has pretty much said that these engines are never going to handle the power that the previous evo's could.

They may have suspected that before they ever touched the car (quite honestly, because they were 4G63 fanbois), but sine then, those same guys have gone on to prove that the opposite is true. The 4B11T is a much more capable motor and responds much better to mods.


I'm glad you picked an evo, but there is a 1300hp mzr Mazdaspeed3 drag car running in the high 6's. Power can be made out of both of these engines with enough money.

Right, but like I said above, the 4B11T has more potential. Hell, there were Evo Xs running 10 second quarter miles within MONTHS of their release. That didn't happen with an MZR.

Plus, comparing a purpose built tubular framed funny car to a modified street car in terms of their drag racing abilities isn't apples and oranges.


I'm sorry to tell you, but the MZR and the new Evo X engine will handle about the same amount of power before they go BOOM.

ORLY? Well, how about the fact that I don't know anyone who has blown a 4B11T (even at ridiculous power levels), and I know of countless guys who blew their MZRs at a much lower power level. How, you ask? Because I sell them Arias Pistons and Pauter rods after their motors blow.


You just got AWD and more horsepower stock, thats about it.

Again, that's not what makes the Evo X great. The Evo X isn't mind blowingly fast from the factory. But the fact that you can make it silly fast and reliable for next to nothing is what makes it great.

Perfect example, on a MUSTANG dyno (which reads very low), I gained 72whp on my Evo X just from tuning:

http://speedcircuit.net/images/SC_EcuTeK_dyno_1.jpg

Mind you, a DynoJet would have read those numbers at about 13% higher.

I've never seen any near-stock 4 cylinder on the planet even come close to those types of gains from a tune.

And guess what? That motor can take a lot more power.

Then we move on to the transmission - the Evo X manual trans is very beefy and even the big power guys aren't having issues with breaking gears and diffs yet.

On top of that, you have endless grip. While you can push a fwd car very hard with the right setup, you're ultimately going to run into a hard time once you approach 400hp on a street car. Meanwhile the Evo X won't even break a sweat at that level.

Point is, while the MZR is a nice setup (and certainly better than the FS-DEs that I've been tuning for 7 years), it can't hold a candle to a 4B11T.

[Kooldino]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/DaleNixon/Ilikewherethisthreadisgoing.jpg

Winner.

[AAMguy]

yea ive tuned a few evo x's granted they havent had outrageous modifications as of yet, but they have all responsed really well to the mods and a tune, I was very impressed.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/mattyk04/Squinty1k.jpg

[Alexsered]

we will see in time just which engine will handle the power longer. But so far Iron block like the 2jz and the 4g63 have been proving to be the winners. The 4b11 has alot to live up to and so far it's been on par with the 4g63, but definatly not been better.

[Kooldino]

lol, AMS has an EVO 9 with over 1000 hp.

So do 100 other people. But they've been around for years and have tens of thousands of dollars into them. The X will be there in time.


Please post a link of a 600whp on a STOCK EVO X motor. Please, I can't believe you get away with such crazy talk on this forum.

There you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goyXOXpXpMc


Do you want to even compare the 4g63 iron block to the all aluminum 4b11?

Please do. And while we're at it, please tell me how an iron Chevy 350 is superior to a corvette's aluminum LS7 motor.

Actually, you know what? Instead of us talking about the 4b11t vs the 4g63, why don't you check out this link to a turbo magazine article that does it for you:

http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8571


I'm not a complete evo hater, because I love what people can do with the previous evo's, but this new one will never compete,

It will never compete? Dude, it already has, and it just won!


and the only reason it won was because of the new AWD handling system and just how good the EVO X handles.

Not the fact that it made more power?

And if it "can't compete" according to you, then it's odd that you admit that it has a better AWD system and handles better...


But when you are going to start talking about how the 4b11 is a better motor than the 4G63, people that know anything about this are going to laugh in your face.

Right, because clearly you're an expert on the 4b11t.

Let's review the facts.

1-the 4b11t is lighter
2-the 4b11t DOESN'T HAVE CRANK WALK.
3-the 4b11t revs higher, mod for mod
4-the 4b11t puts out more power mod for mod
5-the 4b11t has a better valvetrain design and a chain drive
6-the 4b11t doesn't need balance shafts
7-the 4b11t holds more power in stock form
8-the 4b11t has MIVEC on the exhaust AND the intake cams.
9-the 4b11t has 4 bolt mains.

Need I go on here?

On the flip side, here are the advantages the 4g63 has over the 4b11t:

1-The highest powered ones in the world (read: the ones you'll never have anyway) are much higher than the 4b11ts.

However, that's only because the 4g63 is 20 years old and shops have had more time to tinker with them. The Evo X has been in the us for just over 6 months, so obviously they don't have the R&D into it to break 1000hp just yet.

Regardless, since in reality almost no one is going to need more than 600hp, that aspect of the motors is kind of a pissing contest.

[AAMguy]

geez people ok maybe we cant agree on which engine is better but i think we can all agree that sri are better than cai.

uhhh ohh...

[Hambino]

we will see in time just which engine will handle the power longer. But so far Iron block like the 2jz and the 4g63 have been proving to be the winners. The 4b11 has alot to live up to and so far it's been on par with the 4g63, but definatly not been better.

Wow. You are so misinformed it is hilarious. It's very clear you know absolutely nothing about either motor. All you seem to know about the Evo X comes from EvoM about a year ago when all the 8/9 owners were shit-talking. The 4B11T crushes the 4G63. 500whp on a stock block? The 4G63 couldn't even dream of it. First couple months the car was out carrito.net ran a high 10 on a stock motor!. Tragic fale.

[Kooldino]

we will see in time just which engine will handle the power longer. But so far Iron block like the 2jz and the 4g63 have been proving to be the winners.

Historically, yes. But that's probably not due to the fact that they're based on iron blocks. When those motors were released, iron blocks were 99% of the market. You simply can't point that out as the reason for their success.


The 4b11 has alot to live up to and so far it's been on par with the 4g63, but definatly not been better.

Uhh...so clearly you've done zero homework here. Mod for mod, the 4b11t puts out way more power than the 4g63...it's not even arguable.

[Kooldino]

geez people ok maybe we cant agree on which engine is better but i think we can all agree that sri are better than cai.

uhhh ohh...

My dad can beat up your dad.

Look it up.

[Hambino]

Even the ridiculous Mazda 3 in the USCC year would lose in literally every way to an Evo X with bolt-ons. Oh wait..

[AAMguy]

lol.

and btw is pretty impressive that with just a drop in filter on my dynojet we were seeing a 9-13whp different in the 4b11

[Kooldino]

lol.

and btw is pretty impressive that with just a drop in filter on my dynojet we were seeing a 9-13whp different in the 4b11

*waits for someone to chime in about how much power the speed 3 CAI makes*

lol.

Where's your dyno, btw?

[AAMguy]

chesapeake, virginia

edit: not my dyno just the one i play on everyday. u have to love private funders ;)

[Kain]

Someone combine this thread with the COBB AP vs. CP-E Standback thread. They both are equal parts shit-flinging.

[Kooldino]

*threads merged*

[Alexsered]

everything you stated was great and nothing that we didn't know already, in time we will see which one is better. I don't see where you are getting your information from, but stock engine 4g63 have been running over 600 whp for a while. Please dude, I can make the MZR run with 600 hp, but will it last, probably not. All in good time my friend, all in good time.

[AAMguy]

i see someone back tracking...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/mattyk04/73.gif

[Alexsered]

Someone combine this thread with the COBB AP vs. CP-E Standback thread. They both are equal parts shit-flinging.

(werd)

[Alexsered]

i see someone back tracking...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/mattyk04/73.gif

who? I still think the 4g63 is better than the 4b11, no back tracking. (moon)

[Hambino]

everything you stated was great and nothing that we didn't know already, in time we will see which one is better. I don't see where you are getting your information from, but stock engine 4g63 have been running over 600 whp for a while. Please dude, I can make the MZR run with 600 hp, but will it last, probably not. All in good time my friend, all in good time.

WHAT? Stock trim 46G3's are making high 3's/low 4's before detonating. What the hell are you talking about? You can't even make close to that much with your MZR. What's the weather like on that planet you live on?

[Alexsered]

WHAT? Stock trim 46G3's are making high 3's/low 4's before detonating. What the hell are you talking about? You can't even make close to that much with your MZR. What's the weather like on that planet you live on?

you telling me that big turbo, fully bolted, plus meth, tune and 22-25 psi I can make 600 whp? lol, not that I would ever do it, because I would probably only make it through one dyno, but I 600 whp would be possible

[AAMguy]

^^^no i dont think u could.

and by you actually thinking you could has given me the insight that you have no clue what u r talking about.

[Alexsered]

^^^no i dont think u could.

and by you actually thinking you could has given me the insight that you are have no clue what u r talking about.

seriously? Not that I'm saying it would last, but I though it could at least hit that peak. I mean, i've seen 400 with meth but not a good tune and around 19 psi.

[dkswim]

hmmm when did this thread go to shit???? oww yesterday at 0550

[Hambino]

you telling me that big turbo, fully bolted, plus meth, tune and 22-25 psi I can make 600 whp? lol, not that I would ever do it, because I would probably only make it through one dyno, but I 600 whp would be possible

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9951/gtfo12zb1.jpg

22-25psi on a "big" turbo. Do you even know what you are talking about?



^^^no i dont think u could.

and by you actually thinking you could has given me the insight that you have no clue what u r talking about.

(cabpatch)

[Kooldino]

everything you stated was great and nothing that we didn't know already,

Apparently you didn't know a lot of it since you didn't believe me and i had to prove it to you...


in time we will see which one is better. I don't see where you are getting your information from, but stock engine 4g63 have been running over 600 whp for a while.

100% bone stock internals? Show me where.


Please dude, I can make the MZR run with 600 hp,

No you can't. You're lucky to see an MZR make 400hp before it lets go.


All in good time my friend, all in good time.

True story.

[dkswim]

hmm in all reality we all pick cars for our own reasons. I would not buy an evo-x there are other cars i would rather have. im not trying to take anything from it but ther are tons of great cars out there.

[Kooldino]

you telling me that big turbo, fully bolted, plus meth, tune and 22-25 psi I can make 600 whp? lol, not that I would ever do it, because I would probably only make it through one dyno, but I 600 whp would be possible

What are you basing this on? MZRs blow on STOCK power and many with bolt ons.

Hell, I know a guy who ONLY had a mazdaspeed intake and a CPE reflash whose car blew up.

[Kooldino]

^^^no i dont think u could.

and by you actually thinking you could has given me the insight that you have no clue what u r talking about.

You sir, just won the thread.

[AAMguy]

which is a fair statement swim.

the other kid just had no idea what he was talking about...

[Alexsered]

okay, this is getting out of hand, first of all, all I said was I believe that the 4g63 is a better engine than the 4b11, second, I was saying that in a SUICIDE run, i bet the MZR could hit 600 whp peak hp, what don't you understand about that. And third, when people disagree, is this how everyone reacts on this forum? Man, since when did we all turn into a bunch of 5th graders.

Still think the 4g63>4b11t, and your mom is fat.

lol... JK, don't get all personal and stuff.


On a side not, I think if the tri mazda3 in this article started about with a speed3 they could have had a much better platform to start out with. Probably could have done alot better in the handling department with better tires too.

[AAMguy]

/thread.

[Kooldino]

hmm in all reality we all pick cars for our own reasons. I would not buy an evo-x there are other cars i would rather have. im not trying to take anything from it but ther are tons of great cars out there.

Sure, and that's fine. But when guys are trying to say that a clearly inferior car is better, then that's another story.

[AAMguy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/mattyk04/pimpmyride.jpg

[Kain]

Sure, and that's fine. But when guys are trying to say that a clearly inferior car is better, then that's another story.

By what criteria? I assume you mean performance potential. I couldn't live with an Evo X trunk, for instance, making it inferior to me in that regard.

[Kooldino]

okay, this is getting out of hand, first of all, all I said was I believe that the 4g63 is a better engine than the 4b11,

Based on nothing, mind you...


second, I was saying that in a SUICIDE run, i bet the MZR could hit 600 whp peak hp, what don't you understand about that.

It would explode halfway through the pull and probably wouldn't break 400.


And third, when people disagree, is this how everyone reacts on this forum? Man, since when did we all turn into a bunch of 5th graders.

We're disagreeing because all of the stuff you're claiming is unrealistic and you're not backing it up with ANY fact, research, or real knowledge of what you're saying.


Still think the 4g63>4b11t,

The ONLY thing I can say you're right about is that the highest HP motors out there between the two are 4g63s (which will change in time).

In every other measurable way, the 4b11t is superior.


On a side not, I think if the tri mazda3 in this article started about with a speed3 they could have had a much better platform to start out with.

Not really.

That's like saying my fully built boosted MP3 would have been better off if it started life as an MSP. When in reality, I would have had to remove all of the MSP turbo parts and crappy diff only to do what I needed to do anyway.

[AAMguy]

On a side not, I think if the tri mazda3 in this article started about with a speed3 they could have had a much better platform to start out with. Probably could have done alot better in the handling department with better tires too.


are u cereal?


(come on kain thats ur que)

[Kooldino]

By what criteria?

Overall.


I assume you mean performance potential. I couldn't live with an Evo X trunk, for instance, making it inferior to me in that regard.

Sure, there will be pros and cons to each car (for instance, i prefer the weight of my mp3 to my Evo), and while I have more love for my mp3, my evo is the superior car.

[AAMguy]

my left nut is the superior nut ...

its kind of like that.

[dkswim]

in certin applications i would chouse an evo-VII over the X for example if i was just using it for racing and all around fun car. 42k for an X or an VII for 17k

[Alexsered]

[QUOTE=

That's like saying my fully built boosted MP3 would have been better off if it started life as an MSP. When in reality, I would have had to remove all of the MSP turbo parts and crappy diff only to do what I needed to do anyway.[/QUOTE]

yeah, but you already have a stiffer chasis, and many of the parts were going to be added to the car regardless, so even if they are replaced, it still would have cost the same for the parts, except that the mazdaspeed3 is a much better start.

[Alexsered]

my left nut is the superior nut ...

its kind of like that.

AAMguy, now I know who you are, I totally didn't recognize you with the new profile pic. I miss the part in your profile where you call yourself "I'm kind of a dick" why take that out?

[Kain]

are u cereal?


(come on kain thats ur que)

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/images/supercereal.jpg

[AAMguy]

i felt like changing it up. plus now i can get away with being a nice guy for a minute or two.

[Alexsered]

i felt like changing it up. plus now i can get away with being a nice guy for a minute or two.

at least we can agree on one thing. NOBAMA. lol

[Kain]

plus now i can get away with being a nice guy for a minute or two.

I don't think you lasted that long, lawl.

[AAMguy]

u say lawl to much.

:)

[Kain]

My lawls. Let me show you them.

[Kain]

While we're on the topic, Edmunds just picked up an '08 Evo X GSR (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=134106?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..5 .*#2) with some AMS mods for longterm testing. Bolt-ons + ECU flash = 370 hp (crank, I'm assuming).

Now if they only offered it in a wagon...

[Alexsered]

While we're on the topic, Edmunds just picked up an '08 Evo X GSR (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=134106?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..5 .*#2) with some AMS mods for longterm testing. Bolt-ons + ECU flash = 370 hp (crank, I'm assuming).

Now if they only offered it in a wagon...

I wonder what a GSR and those mods what the price would be. I would assume $50k +?

[Kain]

I wonder what a GSR and those mods what the price would be. I would assume $50k +?

What. The MSRP is $33k (not sure what market value is), and the bolt-ons and flash are $2,500. $35.5k for 370 hp, AWD and seats 5 sounds like a bargain to me.

[Alexsered]

What. The MSRP is $33k (not sure what market value is), and the bolt-ons and flash are $2,500. $35.5k for 370 hp, AWD and seats 5 sounds like a bargain to me.

thats not bad, how many actually have bought an evo for $33k though? Thats without any options right? The dealerships I went to check them out have been in the $40's, not sure if it was markup or options.

[Kain]

For shits & giggles, I plugged the numbers into CarsDirect and Edmunds (two of the better market value sites) and both came out between $32.6-$33.5k for a barebones GSR (which is what I would get anyway) in the DC metro area. I mean, this is for an '08, and the new Evo has been out for a while. Not sure what Mitsu's MY cycle is, but I'd imagine they're clearing out inventory for the MY09s.

EDIT: Oh, and Mitsubishi is offering 0.0% for 60 months on the '08 Evo. Again, if only it came in a wagon...

[AAMguy]

one of shop cars is an evo x and we got it for 32k

[Kain]

hello ,everyone who know how to make runescape money (http://www.runescape-shop.com/runescape-gold/runescape-gold.php) fast??

Sorry, runescape money runs the MZR, so it'll never be fast. If only it used the 4G63 instead...

[Kooldino]

While we're on the topic, Edmunds just picked up an '08 Evo X GSR (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=134106?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..5 .*#2) with some AMS mods for longterm testing. Bolt-ons + ECU flash = 370 hp (crank, I'm assuming).

Now if they only offered it in a wagon...

Search around for the Lancer Sportback.

[Kooldino]

I wonder what a GSR and those mods what the price would be. I would assume $50k +?

No..simple mods, remember?

You're probably talking at about $1-2K worth of mods.

If you got base GSR for $30K, your car would now cost under $32K.

[Kooldino]

thats not bad, how many actually have bought an evo for $33k though?

Mine cost me $34K with every option except for OEM NAV.


Thats without any options right? The dealerships I went to check them out have been in the $40's, not sure if it was markup or options.

That's gouging.

[Kooldino]

For shits & giggles, I plugged the numbers into CarsDirect and Edmunds (two of the better market value sites) and both came out between $32.6-$33.5k for a barebones GSR (which is what I would get anyway) in the DC metro area. I mean, this is for an '08, and the new Evo has been out for a while. Not sure what Mitsu's MY cycle is, but I'd imagine they're clearing out inventory for the MY09s.

EDIT: Oh, and Mitsubishi is offering 0.0% for 60 months on the '08 Evo. Again, if only it came in a wagon...

We have a dealer on evoxforums.com that sales base Evo Xs for $29,999.

[AAMguy]

No..simple mods, remember?

You're probably talking at about $1-2K worth of mods.

If you got base GSR for $30K, your car would now cost under $32K.

woah woah man thats simple math... i really doubt he will understand what you are talking about. My little cousin would understand what you are talking about but "alex'whatever'" i doubt could compute this. so my suggestion is try to keep it simple:

lets say the evo cost 1 dollar. and an intake,exhaust costs 2 dollars the new price of the evo would be 3 dollars not 9 dollars.

i think i have properly explained it.

[Kooldino]

LOL, be nice.

[ericrapp]

These cars are a different class. The Mazda and Mitsu. And are a different style of driving. Tuning suspension and balancing the weight and chassis' is most of road course racing. Horse power is nothing when it cannot get to the pavement, obvious to most of us I suppose. advantage, all wheel drive on . The disadvantage to all wheel drive would be the overall weight from more drivetrain pieces and bits . So power to weight ratio can come into play now. on a road course the front wheel drive will need to take advantage of the longer straights with more horsepower and hopefully traction at speed and later braking with the weight advantage. I realize everyone knows there are many more components to track these cars effectively but they can all be made into incredible track machines whether the quarter mile or Nurbringring.

[jeffmsp]

why are you comparing the ms3 to the evo in the first place? I thought this article was about a turbocharged mazda3 (which isnt a mzr, not even close) vs an evoX. the mzr is a much nicer beast than the norm n/a 2.3.

these scc contests are pointless. each car costs different amount of money, have different amounts of money put into them and have teams with vastly different engineering and financial abilities.

to call it a "ultimate street car challenge" is a joke. $500 ford festivas or ford escorts with a few grand in parts and hours of work put into them would run laps around these ass clowns.

if you ask me they should give each team the same car, the same budget, some rules (such as being able to pass smog and emmissions) and a timeline to find out who is the "ultimate street tuner" instead of this "ultimate street car" nonsense.

as for the evo vs mzr debate they are 2 different animals with 10Gs inbetween them. Also not many tuners know shit about tuning the mzr which accounts for most of the blown motors. stupid people trying to pull off going fast without doing things properly giving the mzr a bad rep. put a good engineer in charge of the ms3 and the engine will make anyone smile. put some ass clown that has a visa card and no real knowledge of what he is doing and the ms3 gets a bad rep pretty quick. unfortuneately the vast majority of ms3 owners dont know shit about tuning aside from how to order parts from a website and end up doing more harm then good in the long run and bitch and complain about the car during the whole process. (remind you of anyone-see MSP owners..)

if u ask me id take the ms3 and the cash difference any day of the week.

[ericrapp]

This is my fault for starting a comparison war. Respect for all these cars is right. Theoretical is great fun. Proven is even better. But in time all these cars and motors will be pushed further a little. New secrets will be revealed with the most recent Evo and our direct injection MazdaSpeed mzr in time, just as the big boy Tuners go after the Nissan Gt-R. They are just not moving as fast on our cars as we would hope.

[jeffmsp]

how do you figure? You can get pretty much anything you need to build a serious mazda3 or mazdaspeed3.

standalone ems, front mount intercooler and 3" exhausts can be put on any car lol you dont even need a company to make them for you. the rest is just tuning.

[Hambino]

why are you comparing the ms3 to the evo in the first place? I thought this article was about a turbocharged mazda3 (which isnt a mzr, not even close) vs an evoX. the mzr is a much nicer beast than the norm n/a 2.3.

these scc contests are pointless. each car costs different amount of money, have different amounts of money put into them and have teams with vastly different engineering and financial abilities.

to call it a "ultimate street car challenge" is a joke. $500 ford festivas or ford escorts with a few grand in parts and hours of work put into them would run laps around these ass clowns.

if you ask me they should give each team the same car, the same budget, some rules (such as being able to pass smog and emmissions) and a timeline to find out who is the "ultimate street tuner" instead of this "ultimate street car" nonsense.

as for the evo vs mzr debate they are 2 different animals with 10Gs inbetween them. Also not many tuners know shit about tuning the mzr which accounts for most of the blown motors. stupid people trying to pull off going fast without doing things properly giving the mzr a bad rep. put a good engineer in charge of the ms3 and the engine will make anyone smile. put some ass clown that has a visa card and no real knowledge of what he is doing and the ms3 gets a bad rep pretty quick. unfortuneately the vast majority of ms3 owners dont know shit about tuning aside from how to order parts from a website and end up doing more harm then good in the long run and bitch and complain about the car during the whole process. (remind you of anyone-see MSP owners..)

if u ask me id take the ms3 and the cash difference any day of the week.


I agree with a good bit of that, but the MZR is not the pinnacle of automotive engineering. It see's some strong gains on bolt-on's and such. But there is literally no comparison to the 4B11T. Sorry, people are blowing motors on stock boost. If we started talking about about building motors, there are dozens of motor's I'd build for way cheaper and make a lot more power than MZR.

As for the USCC, the vast differences in all the entries is the whole point of the contest. Sure some budget cars could clean up some areas, but won't win the other "field equalizer" tests like the emissions and "girlfriend" test. Granted, its a better talking point than official test, but it's a magazine after all. You'll be hard pressed to outgun that Z or Evo X with a caged out Festiva.

Saying the MZR and the motor the used for this car aren't related is ridiculous. Their motor makes more power than any MZR can take in stock trim, period. The level they are at would demand a bottom-end build thereby negating any "MZR is great" argument. Are they the same motor? No. Does it honestly matter at that power level? No. They would have to do the exact same work to either motor to make that power and not melt it down to beaded glass.

[ericrapp]

how do you figure? You can get pretty much anything you need to build a serious mazda3 or mazdaspeed3.

standalone ems, front mount intercooler and 3" exhausts can be put on any car lol you dont even need a company to make them for you. the rest is just tuning. I do not agree, sorry. Specifically to the speed 3, Who offers a hotter cam or adjustable struts besides Koni. There are parts out there but not much selection. Take clutches for example. Also how many folks have a standalone on this car. If you are familiar with the Speed 3 since it came out and followed the progress of tuners and tuning, you would be aware that even the noted tuning shops have struggled with this car. I have spoken to some of them on this subject. I could not find a Cobb protuner any where within 500 miles this springtime. No one is publishing the limits or the learning curves. And although I have a ems in my living room I will not install it yet I just do not feel anyone has found the secrets to this car yet and I am not ready to build a new motor if we make an error. If it was a Honda sure, just load up the chrome program and away you go. I am off track a little but the Bergonholtz racing team with Tripoint are our best bet for extreme performance develpment right now. Thanks

[ericrapp]

Now that I am done talking out my behind I will sit down and read the article! hahah

[Alexsered]

woah woah man thats simple math... i really doubt he will understand what you are talking about. My little cousin would understand what you are talking about but "alex'whatever'" i doubt could compute this. so my suggestion is try to keep it simple:

lets say the evo cost 1 dollar. and an intake,exhaust costs 2 dollars the new price of the evo would be 3 dollars not 9 dollars.

i think i have properly explained it.

cp-e SB is better than COBB AP(first)

Oh, and I'm planning on putting that subaru hood on my speed3.

[jeffmsp]

Their motor makes more power than any MZR can take in stock trim, period. The level they are at would demand a bottom-end build thereby negating any "MZR is great" argument.

The direct injection is what makes the engine great, not the bottom end. Pistons and rods are a must for any serious competition build. For the stock turbo I am sure they could last fine.


Also how many folks have a standalone on this car.
Exactly, people are trying to get away with doing this improperly. Put that motec they had in their m3 on a ms3 and you would be laughing.

[Hambino]

Exactly, people are trying to get away with doing this improperly. Put that motec they had in their m3 on a ms3 and you would be laughing.

Yeah, if you can figure Motec on a canbus system first. It would make literally no difference. Turbo M3 vs MS3, sorry direct injection is not going to make a big difference. It would still require very similar built motors to the point where injection style won't matter. All that will matter is that the fuel gets there. Take both cars and build a drag car. Both end up with the same net result.

[jeffmsp]

good points but you dont figure that superior atomization of fuel plays any part in detonation resistance/knock threshold?

Perhaps once going WOT at in a drag race at high cfm levels its not as noticeable, but what about the sections of road in between on the road course?

[AAMguy]

Exactly, people are trying to get away with doing this improperly. Put that motec they had in their m3 on a ms3 and you would be laughing.

i agree yet the motec is a bitch to tune and there are only a handful of people that are very experienced in tuning it (or at least that I would trust) and i know 2 of them charge an outrageous amount of money

1.for the tune
2.for a flight to where you are

[Hambino]

good points but you dont figure that superior atomization of fuel plays any part in detonation resistance/knock threshold?

Perhaps once going WOT at in a drag race at high cfm levels its not as noticeable, but what about the sections of road in between on the road course?

Won't even make the slightest of difference. How much the driver's shoes weigh will play a bigger factor.

[jeffmsp]

When I place my additional injectors 2inch or 4inch from the primaries it makes little to no difference since they only activate under high cfm conditions, but you would think with a DISI system it would make a difference especially if you were able to manage individual cylinder timing and afs. Wish I had one so I could find out myself.

[jeffmsp]

i agree yet the motec is a bitch to tune and there are only a handful of people that are very experienced in tuning it (or at least that I would trust) and i know 2 of them charge an outrageous amount of money

1.for the tune
2.for a flight to where you are

Luckily 4 me Im near someone :) too bad my lack of funds means Ill never have a chance to exploit it. :(

[Hambino]

When I place my additional injectors 2inch or 4inch from the primaries it makes little to no difference since they only activate under high cfm conditions, but you would think with a DISI system it would make a difference especially if you were able to manage individual cylinder timing and afs. Wish I had one so I could find out myself.

Yeah I hear ya for sure. The DISI system had a lot of promise for sure. I know I was excited for it when it first hit the scene. I was considering even picking up an MS3 at the time. However, after watching some decent builds it just didn't seem to make a difference. I think it's a great set-up for bolt-on's and such, but when it comes to 400+ HP applications, the novelty wears off and just becomes a pita to work with. We'll see where they go with the new platform, hopefully they'll make it easier to work with as a whole.

[jeffmsp]

why not just use a fcd to keep the stock airflow meter and fuel system from maxing out and then rig 4 additional injectors up to a fuel controller to handle additional fueling? Cheapest and easiest way to handle the problem I would think. Works great for me :) Cost is minimal and you can supply more fuel than the engine can take for a very small initial investment. I even used analog controls on my first controller box, cost me less than $100 to build the controller, reused stock rail and injectors from my first fsdet, easily made mounting brackets and ran fuel lines from the rail to injectors. The switch to digital injection on the secondaries hardly makes a difference once you get a good tune worked out with the tuning pots as the engine is flowing enough cfm at high load/rpm that mixing the air and fuel is not an issue.

That way you get the pros of the 2.3 disi with none of the cons of the stock fuel system. If you are inclined to electronics the ordeal should cost you less than a good pair of shoes.

[Hambino]

why not just use a fcd to keep the stock airflow meter and fuel system from maxing out and then rig 4 additional injectors up to a fuel controller to handle additional fueling? Cheapest and easiest way to handle the problem I would think. Works great for me :) Cost is minimal and you can supply more fuel than the engine can take for a very small initial investment. I even used analog controls on my first controller box, cost me less than $100 to build the controller, reused stock rail and injectors from my first fsdet, easily made mounting brackets and ran fuel lines from the rail to injectors. The switch to digital injection on the secondaries hardly makes a difference once you get a good tune worked out with the tuning pots as the engine is flowing enough cfm at high load/rpm that mixing the air and fuel is not an issue.

That way you get the pros of the 2.3 disi with none of the cons of the stock fuel system. If you are inclined to electronics the ordeal should cost you less than a good pair of shoes.


Well for "everyday" tuning applications this works. Even Kooldino runs an additional rail with 4 larger injectors on it when he needs the fuel. When it comes to 400hp+ race applications, it doesn't really cut it. These guys want a specific set of injectors for a specific purpose. They don't need to worry about a safe daily tune. They want to be able to make smiley faced spray patterns with their injectors. Keep in mind, we're also comparing stand-alone cars to cars running on stock ecu's with FCD's or piggybacks. Every car, regardless of factory equipment, gets to a certain point with power and purpose that things have to be done the "right" way.

[builthatch]

this thread is so ridiculous....

why anyone came into this thread waving an EVO X flag and throwing burning spears, i don't know. don't the mods here keep anything on topic in his mazdaspeed3 subforum?

keeping in the theme of off-topic, if you really want to know what EVO platform is better...call the proprietors of some of the big DSM tuning outlets, the guys who make a difference, like Jeff Hill at Turbotrix, and poll them all about which platform is more promising, or which engine has more potential.

if you call them all, and most say one thing, then you have your answer.

these guys on the internet can have their opinion, but just make the phone calls and ask the people who definitively know. it's what was done before the internet, and it still is what to do- poll the experts, not some synthetic eletronic corkboard with mystery people pressing keys.

[Hambino]

this thread is so ridiculous....

why anyone came into this thread waving an EVO X flag and throwing burning spears, i don't know. don't the mods here keep anything on topic in his mazdaspeed3 subforum?

keeping in the theme of off-topic, if you really want to know what EVO platform is better...call the proprietors of some of the big DSM tuning outlets, the guys who make a difference, like Jeff Hill at Turbotrix, and poll them all about which platform is more promising, or which engine has more potential.

if you call them all, and most say one thing, then you have your answer.

these guys on the internet can have their opinion, but just make the phone calls and ask the people who definitively know. it's what was done before the internet, and it still is what to do- poll the experts, not some synthetic eletronic corkboard with mystery people pressing keys.

Sure, call them all. If they have an Evo X, they'll be singing the 4B11T gospel. I know because I'm on a forum with them. Pound for pound, the 4G63 has been eclipsed.

[jeffmsp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkCHsX-pPhA

looks like hiboost has no problems working with the disi system...stock internals 477whp. too bad they didnt have a car at that shootout, though from what ive heard from other forum members if they were in the contest they would have been late by months lol ;) jk

[Hambino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkCHsX-pPhA

looks like hiboost has no problems working with the disi system...stock internals 477whp. too bad they didnt have a car at that shootout, though from what ive heard from other forum members if they were in the contest they would have been late by months lol ;) jk

Yeah they're running a built motor with a substantial amount of boost. This can be done with literally any motor. To be honest, no amount of power or engineering was going to put an FF Mazda near the top of the USCC.

[jeffmsp]

i dont anything anything fwd could make the top of the list, but it would have made things more interesting. not to knock tripoint in any way, everyone knows they are great. maybe next scc shootout they will have a ms6 or turbo rotary at least.

[SuperStretch18]

...maybe next scc shootout they will have a ms6 or turbo rotary at least.

They're closing shop...
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123726156

[ericrapp]

I have just caught up on this discussion. I appreciated the reasonable dialogue. Thanks gentlemen. It seems most of you fellows are in touch with the current state of tuning and the MazdaSpeed 3. And SportCompactCar will be missed i think.