need some input on new car

[ms6acton]

so i totalled my little ms3 about 2 months ago and i have been driving my 92 dodge stealth. well she's starting to die on me so im just gonna buy a used car. im trying to stay in the 10-15k range cause im buying a new condo too. so heres what ive come up with thus far in no particular order

04 srt4
04 330ci
06 cobalt ss
02 s2000
05 g35x
02 is300
04 rx8
03 protegespeed
04 eclipse
06 lancer ralliart
03 rsx s
04 a4
im taking into consideration fuel type since gas just keeps going up.
and i kno this is a mazda forum so it may be biased towards the 2 mazdas on there. any input would be great

[Capt Crunch]

If you want performance and you plan on modding, SRT-4. If you want a fun, reliable daily, RSX-S.

[blake_peanut]

IS300 or RSX-S for me.....

Edit: That ralliart actually has a decent pull to it, not a bad choice either.

[ms6acton]

i dont kno how much modding i will be doing to this one. probably just my daily driver. althought ive said that with all my cars. and slowly start pouring money into them.

[noGOfast]

If it were me... I'd get the s2k.

[builthatch]

3rd gen mitusbishi montero...

oh, wait, that's not on the list.

hmm...

g35x is a very nice car if maintained. they can be had for CHEAP; they take such big hits from new.

that really is the only car on that list that i'd consider. s2k is pretty useless unless you have the real estate in your area to use one. they are not that fun to drive otherwise IMO. i'd say the RSX but that k20 isn't what you think it might be when it gets to high mileage...they aren't the old honda engines, lol. timing chain changes and clutch changes, which used to be simple procedures (well, used to be timing belt) are now super PITAS.

ideally, if that is your price range, you might be better off just finding a clean 6th gen honda of your choice and swapping in a b18c from hmotorsonline. It'll run forever, is easy to work on (like nothing else, actually!) and offer good performance and wild gas mileage.

[///M Compact]

330ci or s2k

[Mazda3OnSpeed]

i would have 2 agree. you can do that or the srt 4 is not that bed ether. (thought) or how about (gossip) an RX7 =]

[nate0123]

6S v6 manual (220 hp regular gas)

[Alexsered]

so i totalled my little ms3 about 2 months ago and i have been driving my 92 dodge stealth. well she's starting to die on me so im just gonna buy a used car. im trying to stay in the 10-15k range cause im buying a new condo too. so heres what ive come up with thus far in no particular order

04 srt4
04 330ci
06 cobalt ss
02 s2000
05 g35x
02 is300
04 rx8
03 protegespeed
04 eclipse
06 lancer ralliart
03 rsx s
04 a4
im taking into consideration fuel type since gas just keeps going up.
and i kno this is a mazda forum so it may be biased towards the 2 mazdas on there. any input would be great


Go with the rsx s.
04 srt4-has been dogged by so many people, car is no longer stock or babied.
04 330ci-the service on the car will kill you, so expensive
06 cobalt ss-resale value is low and it's slow, not reliable GM car at all
02 s2000-RWD will kill you if its not bright and sunny outside.
05 g35x-This is an okay car, doesn't hold the value as much
02 is300-good car, but too big and RWD issues
04 rx8-RWD issues and POO POO reliability, sucks on gas bad
03 protegespeed-Reliability issues, also hard to find on that is not dogged
04 eclipse-not a popular car, and really boring to drive
06 lancer ralliart-Boring, and you might as well get a regular lanceer
03 rsx s-WINNER High resale value, even if it is dogged, honda does a reallygoodd job with their engines, will last forever
04 a4-VERY HORRIBLE reliability, service will kill you, basically don't buy an AUDI unless its new and has good warrenty.


I know alot of this has todo with opinion, but I know all the cars you have listed. Go with the rsx s, you won't be disappointed for the price.

[ms6acton]

i went and took an rsx-s out for a test drive today, and i must say its a pretty nice car. not nearly as fast as my old speed3 or stealth but still a really nice drive. and really comfy leather seats :) so far thats in the lead. also i forgot to mention that i live in canada so we get tonnes of snow. anyone have any suggestions that werent on my list? thanks everyone for their input!

[duy856]

i went and took an rsx-s out for a test drive today, and i must say its a pretty nice car. not nearly as fast as my old speed3 or stealth but still a really nice drive. and really comfy leather seats :) so far thats in the lead. also i forgot to mention that i live in canada so we get tonnes of snow. anyone have any suggestions that werent on my list? thanks everyone for their input!

rsx is a nice car :] lol. what about an 04 wrx? its awd. fun in the snow!

[///M Compact]

04 330ci-the service on the car will kill you, so expensive


Oh really? I have a 113K mile 1995 3 Series track rat as well as a 2004 X3 with 60K. The maintenance/repair costs for the 3er have averaged @$50/month since I bought it new in November 1995- and that number includes three sets of sticky ZR-rated track rubber. The X3 costs @$66/month to run. In comparison, my 2007 MS3 costs $50/month to run.



02 s2000-RWD will kill you if its(sic) not bright and sunny outside.


Please tell me that you are joking. Seriously, if you lack the ability to drive an s2k in the rain I strongly suggest selling any automobiles you do own and using the proceeds to buy bus tokens.



I know alot(sic) of this has todo(sic) with opinion, but I know all the cars you have listed.


Well, THAT is obvious...

[spdjnke]

Hey MS3Acton

As a former member of 3Si and owner of a 92 Stealth RT/TT, if you want to spend less money and get more bang for your buck I would say get a TT version of the 3kgt. Not to sell you or anything my buddy whom everyone knows on the 3SI site is parting with his 92VR4 show car in your price range if not less, let me know if your at all interested. PM me and I can give you all the details.

[Alexsered]

Oh really? I have a 113K mile 1995 3 Series track rat as well as a 2004 X3 with 60K. The maintenance/repair costs for the 3er have averaged @$50/month since I bought it new in November 1995- and that number includes three sets of sticky ZR-rated track rubber. The X3 costs @$66/month to run. In comparison, my 2007 MS3 costs $50/month to run.



Please tell me that you are joking. Seriously, if you lack the ability to drive an s2k in the rain I strongly suggest selling any automobiles you do own and using the proceeds to buy bus tokens.



Well, THAT is obvious...

Have you ever tried to take the S2000 in the snow? There is ZERO weight on those rear tires, I had more like driving a 5.0 GT mustang in the snow than an s2000.

I don't know how you get by keeping the BMW maint. so cheap, just an oil change at the BMW dealership here was acouple hundred dollars. I have a friend that I work with that just bought an 2008 335xi, that thing is sweet, twin turbo's and all, but he said if he didn't get the free maint. plan, there was no way he would have bought one. I was also shopping for a used M5 before I bought my mazdaspeed3, but after talking to people onthe m5 board, it was insane how much it cost to maint. a used BMW.

[Sacrilicious]

i went and took an rsx-s out for a test drive today, and i must say its a pretty nice car. not nearly as fast as my old speed3 or stealth but still a really nice drive. and really comfy leather seats :) so far thats in the lead. also i forgot to mention that i live in canada so we get tonnes of snow. anyone have any suggestions that werent on my list? thanks everyone for their input!

wrx or sti if you want good snow performance! evo works too, of course. AWD blows away FWD and RWD when it comes to snow performance. don't forget that subbies also have a very extensive aftermarket, so you can get more power cheaper for your subbie than we can for our ms3.

[///M Compact]

Have you ever tried to take the S2000 in the snow? There is ZERO weight on those rear tires, I had more like driving a 5.0 GT mustang in the snow than an s2000.

Fitting good winter tires and utilizing the traction control that resides between your ears helps a great deal.


I don't know how you get by keeping the BMW maint. so cheap, just an oil change at the BMW dealership here was acouple hundred dollars.

Just like Mazda dealers, some BMW dealers charge what the market will bear. My local dealer changed the ATF and transfer case oil on the X3 for only $208. And the same dealer performed the 60K(Inspection II) service, a brake fluid flush, and repaired some curb rash on the LF wheel for $424. In comparison, a 15K service and brake flush on the MS3 work beater cost $353. And I'm not scrimping on service; both BMWs get fresh Mobil 1 0W-40 at @7.5K intervals and all service called for is performed when it is due. I do most of the oil changes myself and I also use an indie BMW tech for a lot of the service on the 3er(an oil change, new plugs, coolant flush, new air/fuel filters, fresh synthetic in the MT and diff, balance/rotation of the tires, and a four wheel alignment was $495).


I have a friend that I work with that just bought an 2008 335xi, that thing is sweet, twin turbo's and all, but he said if he didn't get the free maint. plan, there was no way he would have bought one.

That just proves that your pal doesn't know what he's talking about, or-more likely-the dealer is trying to scare him into always owning a newish BMW in warranty. All that car needs is an oil change every 7.5K-for piece of mind 15K "by the book"($45 DIY, @$100 at an HONEST dealer or indie BMW shop), an Inspection I at @30K($100 DIY, $200-$250 at the dealer or indie, a brake flush every two years($110-$160), and the Inspection II around 60K($350-$400). The thing doesnt even get plugs until 100K. If it was my sled I'd also change the transmission/diff oils as well as the fuel filter at 50K($300), but BMW doesn't call for it.


I was also shopping for a used M5 before I bought my mazdaspeed3, but after talking to people onthe[sic] m5 board, it was insane how much it cost to maint. a used BMW.

I'll be the first to admit that an M5 isn't cheap to run, but those cars have a very complex powertrain. There is no way you can extrapolate the running costs of an M5 on to an E46 3 series- they are totally different cars. Buy a nice 330i and you can keep it in top shape for less than $800 per year- even if(like me) you track the thing every couple of months.

[Sacrilicious]

good lord, please tell me you didn't actually pay $353 for the dealer's so-called "recommended 15k servicing"? look over your manual and see what the ms3 REALLY needs at that mileage: an oil change and tire rotation. DIY for like $40...if you use good oil...=/

the point of the matter is that BMW 3 series can be maintained for $800 per year if you make sure you don't get ripped off, but a ms3 can be maintained by a mechanic/dealer for $100-$200 if you apply the same smart shopping skills.

[Alexsered]

Fitting good winter tires and utilizing the traction control that resides between your ears helps a great deal.



Just like Mazda dealers, some BMW dealers charge what the market will bear. My local dealer changed the ATF and transfer case oil on the X3 for only $208. And the same dealer performed the 60K(Inspection II) service, a brake fluid flush, and repaired some curb rash on the LF wheel for $424. In comparison, a 15K service and brake flush on the MS3 work beater cost $353. And I'm not scrimping on service; both BMWs get fresh Mobil 1 0W-40 at @7.5K intervals and all service called for is performed when it is due. I do most of the oil changes myself and I also use an indie BMW tech for a lot of the service on the 3er(an oil change, new plugs, coolant flush, new air/fuel filters, fresh synthetic in the MT and diff, balance/rotation of the tires, and a four wheel alignment was $495).



That just proves that your pal doesn't know what he's talking about, or-more likely-the dealer is trying to scare him into always owning a newish BMW in warranty. All that car needs is an oil change every 7.5K-for piece of mind 15K "by the book"($45 DIY, @$100 at an HONEST dealer or indie BMW shop), an Inspection I at @30K($100 DIY, $200-$250 at the dealer or indie, a brake flush every two years($110-$160), and the Inspection II around 60K($350-$400). The thing doesnt even get plugs until 100K. If it was my sled I'd also change the transmission/diff oils as well as the fuel filter at 50K($300), but BMW doesn't call for it.



I'll be the first to admit that an M5 isn't cheap to run, but those cars have a very complex powertrain. There is no way you can extrapolate the running costs of an M5 on to an E46 3 series- they are totally different cars. Buy a nice 330i and you can keep it in top shape for less than $800 per year- even if(like me) you track the thing every couple of months.


I'm not trying to say you are lieing, but anybody that know anything about cars would be very hard to agree with you that maint. a BMW is that cheap. BMW and CHEAP cannot be used in the same sentance, I don't think anybody here is going to believe that a BMW is cheap to maint.

that is also too much work to keep an s2000, getting snow tires, trying to drive it in the snow, or rain. I say, get the rsx s and you won't regret it at all. Really cheap to maint. the parts are everywhere and FWD is always easier to drive than RWD ifyou can't afford AWD.

[///M Compact]

I'm not trying to say you are lieing[sic], but anybody that know[sic] anything about cars would be very hard to agree[sic] with you that maint. a BMW is that cheap. BMW and CHEAP cannot be used in the same sentance, I don't think anybody here is going to believe that a BMW is cheap to maint.

Well, I've only owned, wrenched on, and raced BMWs since 1983, so I can't possibly know as much about them as you; after all, you have a friend who owns one.


that is also too much work to keep an s2000, getting snow tires, trying to drive it in the snow, or rain. I say, get the rsx s and you won't regret it at all. Really cheap to maint. the parts are everywhere and FWD is always easier to drive than RWD ifyou[sic] can't afford AWD.

Again, anyone who actually needs FWD or AWD to drive in the rain should do everyone else on the road a huge favor and start using public transit...

[Alexsered]

Well, I've only owned, wrenched on, and raced BMWs since 1983, so I can't possibly know as much about them as you; after all, you have a friend who owns one.



Again, anyone who actually needs FWD or AWD to drive in the rain should do everyone else on the road a huge favor and start using public transit...

The FWD and RWD is a safety issue, just going around a turn and tapping the gas a little too hard can throw the rear end out.

So when you replace a part on your BMW, is it not 3 times more expensive for that part than lets say a mazda? At least, that's what I've seen the ballpark to be, about 3 times more expensive.

[///M Compact]

The FWD and RWD is a safety issue, just going around a turn and tapping the gas a little too hard can throw the rear end out.

That's simply ridiculous, if you actually believe that I don't know what to say...


So when you replace a part on your BMW, is it not 3 times more expensive for that part than lets say a mazda? At least, that's what I've seen the ballpark to be, about 3 times more expensive.

And just where exactly have you obtained those numbers? Online Mazda parts wants $16.79 for an MS3 oil filter; I just paid $7.40 for a BMW OEM filter for my 3er. OEM pads for the 3er are $82(although I use Axxis), while Online Mazda Parts wants $174 for MS3 front pads- and my local Mazda dealer(NOT the one I use for service) wanted $270 for them.
Here are a few more examples:
OEM BMW rotors? $56 front, $55 rear
OEM MS3 rotors? $95 front, $65 rear
OEM BMW fuel filter: $29
OEM MS3 fuel filter: $18
OEM BMW air filter: $17
OEM MS3 Air filter: $14

I don't know what "ballpark" you've "seen", but I don't find any BMW parts that cost twice what the equivalent MS3 part costs-never mind three times as much.

[intak3_bLkMs3]

lol peeps getting mad. i would go with the s2k personally but it sounds like the rsx is the most reasonable choice

[///M Compact]

lol peeps getting mad. i would go with the s2k personally but it sounds like the rsx is the most reasonable choice

Watch that s2k; drive it through some heavy dew and you'll probably kill yourself...
(nervous)

[Unkillable2]

i think you shouldn't be able to drive for as least 3 years!!! it would be like going to jail to atone your sin for murdering an awesome speed 3! lol but on the serious note... DON'T buy an Eclipse!!!!!!!! that was my first car and i had it for 4 months before i got the speed 3. it was REALLY boring to drive! not sure if it's jsut my luck but i took mine to the dealer and paid a grant for it to fix all the little things, 3 months later, little more problem came up. i love the car since it's my first car but once you drove a speed 3, it'll make just make the eclipse even crapyer!

[happy and angry]

The FWD and RWD is a safety issue, just going around a turn and tapping the gas a little too hard can throw the rear end out.What? What the hell are you going on about here? Learn to drive, and don't make the mistake of confusing ease of with with quality.

[Nismothecat]

have any of you guys actually driven a rwd car? you guys make it sound like the back end slides out with little or no effort. i dont know about you guys but most of the previous cars ive owned have been RWD (2 240's, 66 bug, and lexus sc300) and i have only spun once and that was because i took a turn way to fast in the rain.

[Alexsered]

What? What the hell are you going on about here? Learn to drive, and don't make the mistake of confusing ease of with with quality.

I have driven in the snow plenty of times, people complain about the summer times on the speed3, I was driving to work on them last year when we had 6 inches of snow with no problem, i don't understand how people can say its like driving on Ice with them, you can't drive normally when it's snowing or raining, no matter what tires you have.

All I was saying was, if I had to choose in order of what kind of car I would drive in really bad weather, it would be AWD, than FWD, and last RWD. Who would drive a RWD car in snow over FWD and AWD? Seriously people (drunk)

[Alexsered]

That's simply ridiculous, if you actually believe that I don't know what to say...



And just where exactly have you obtained those numbers? Online Mazda parts wants $16.79 for an MS3 oil filter; I just paid $7.40 for a BMW OEM filter for my 3er. OEM pads for the 3er are $82(although I use Axxis), while Online Mazda Parts wants $174 for MS3 front pads- and my local Mazda dealer(NOT the one I use for service) wanted $270 for them.
Here are a few more examples:
OEM BMW rotors? $56 front, $55 rear
OEM MS3 rotors? $95 front, $65 rear
OEM BMW fuel filter: $29
OEM MS3 fuel filter: $18
OEM BMW air filter: $17
OEM MS3 Air filter: $14

I don't know what "ballpark" you've "seen", but I don't find any BMW parts that cost twice what the equivalent MS3 part costs-never mind three times as much.


Come on man, either you get an awesome dealer discount or something, I can look up OEM part prices from BMW, just the front rotors of a 2003 335xi part number N1000-118542 is 185.96 cents. I didn't have time to go through all the parts, but man, you must be really really lucky to be paying those kind of prices for OEM BMW stuff. Oh yeah, that dude here at work asked him if doing this kind of service at bmw was actually that cheap, and he laughed at me. His oil changes are billed to be around 200.00 some dollars. I mean, he could be lieing, but why?

I'm not knocking you if you are paying those prices, but you would be the first person to tell me that maint. on a BMW is cheap.

[///M Compact]

Oh yeah, that dude here at work asked him if doing this kind of service at bmw was actually that cheap, and he laughed at me. His oil changes are billed to be around 200.00 some dollars. I mean, he could be lieing[sic], but why?

He may not be lying, but he's not very bright if he is actually paying $200 for an oil change. He sounds like the kind of pitiful sap who walks into the first dealer he sees, hands over his credit card, and grabs his ankles. Guess what? BMW dealers aren't the only shops that will screw guys like your "friend"


I'm not knocking you if you are paying those prices, but you would be the first person to tell me that maint. on a BMW is cheap.

Well, yes, you are knocking me. But I give up, go ahead and keep believing that it costs stupid money to maintain a BMW properly; it works into that sour grapes riff that you obviously love to repeat. Me? I'm going by experience- not second or third hand hearsay.

[Alexsered]

He may not be lying, but he's not very bright if he is actually paying $200 for an oil change. He sounds like the kind of pitiful sap who walks into the first dealer he sees, hands over his credit card, and grabs his ankles. Guess what? BMW dealers aren't the only shops that will screw guys like your "friend"



Well, yes, you are knocking me. But I give up, go ahead and keep believing that it costs stupid money to maintain a BMW properly; it works into that sour grapes riff that you obviously love to repeat. Me? I'm going by experience- not second or third hand hearsay.

It's on his bill, but you of all people should know the BMW free maint. He doesn't pay for oil changes and such, but he still gets a slip for it. Its a 2008 335xi, I just did some research on bimmerforums and nobody there is paying less than 150 for just an oil change. I'm sorry dude, but maint. on a BMW is expensive, nobody is going to agree with you that it's cheap.

Anyway, back to the original topic, did you decide on the RSX S? Seems like you are kind of sold on it already.

[///M Compact]

I'm sorry dude, but maint. on a BMW is expensive, nobody is going to agree with you that it's cheap.


Well "dude", I sincerely hope you keep on believing that.

[mazdaspeedster3]

I'm not trying to say you are lieing, but anybody that know anything about cars would be very hard to agree with you that maint. a BMW is that cheap. BMW and CHEAP cannot be used in the same sentance, I don't think anybody here is going to believe that a BMW is cheap to maint.

that is also too much work to keep an s2000, getting snow tires, trying to drive it in the snow, or rain. I say, get the rsx s and you won't regret it at all. Really cheap to maint. the parts are everywhere and FWD is always easier to drive than RWD ifyou can't afford AWD.

Where do BMW's come from? FWD is a lazy mans way out of the snow. Rear drive with traction control is FAR better than any FWD set up ever created. FWD is not your answer when you can not get AWD. Almost every manufacturer is dumping FWD and going back to RWD. BMW (designed to be driven in the Swiss Alps and the Mountains in Austria never had a FWD car and have yet to have problems in snow.

[Alexsered]

Where do BMW's come from? FWD is a lazy mans way out of the snow. Rear drive with traction control is FAR better than any FWD set up ever created. FWD is not your answer when you can not get AWD. Almost every manufacturer is dumping FWD and going back to RWD. BMW (designed to be driven in the Swiss Alps and the Mountains in Austria never had a FWD car and have yet to have problems in snow.

Its the fact that there is less weight on the rear wheels, c'mon guys, are we really talking about RWD being better than FWD and AWD in the snow? When you have no weight on the tires, they will slip alot more. They can all be driven in the snow, and I've driven 500+ hp 5.0L GT Mustangs in the snow, but the chances of me getting stuck at a light are much greater on a RWD car than a FWD car. It comes down to how many pounds per square inch does the contact patch of the tire have, and with the engine in the front, a FWD car will be better than a RWD car, stability control and traction control can be added to both, but FWD will still win.

Why do you think Pickup truck that do not have AWD throw bags of salt, or rocks in the bed of their truck? to add to the weight on the rear tires. This is almost as good as the guy that wanted to put the Subie STI hood on his Mazdaspeed3. lol (thumb)

[Sacrilicious]

ok, this is getting retarded. the fact of the matter is that if he's worried about snow, then snow performance WILL factor into his decision. in that case, his preferences are going to run: AWD->FWD->RWD. how much he weights this is entirely up to his personal tastes.

as it stands, i see no reason why AWD is out of the picture, because based on the cars i see on his list, a used WRX is WELL in his price range, and would be really freakin cheap to mod afterwards. AWD wins...go home, everyone! :D

[tiagotiago]

so i totalled my little ms3 about 2 months ago and i have been driving my 92 dodge stealth. well she's starting to die on me so im just gonna buy a used car. im trying to stay in the 10-15k range cause im buying a new condo too. so heres what ive come up with thus far in no particular order

04 srt4
04 330ci
06 cobalt ss
02 s2000
05 g35x
02 is300
04 rx8
03 protegespeed
04 eclipse
06 lancer ralliart
03 rsx s
04 a4
im taking into consideration fuel type since gas just keeps going up.
and i kno this is a mazda forum so it may be biased towards the 2 mazdas on there. any input would be great

I'd also be considering the rsx, like many others here; the ralliart too, I remember car mags saying it was a nice handling car.

If awd matters, then I'd consider the g35x.

The s2000 would be nice, but if it was me, I'd have to see if the engine has enough torque to make me feel comfortable in day to day driving.

Keep us posted on your choice.

[ms6acton]

i would love to get an old evo or sti but up here in canada we only got the evo this year, and old sti's are still 30+k. even older wrx's are pretty pricey 20+k.. stupid canada lol. tonight im going out to test drive a 06 cobalt ss and then a 07 lancer gts. maybe i should just give up my hunt for a nice car and buy a 03 jetta tdi like my mom suggested haha (she drives one) and im not knocking vws...

[Sacrilicious]

that sux that you can't get scubbies...be careful with VWs, though...their reliability is...spotty...=/

[ms6acton]

yea im not a big fan of vws personally.. after having to drive my moms around for the last little bit.

[PCspeed3]

dude just get a honda accord or civic Si or somthing, not the fastest or nicest car on the road, but they do good on gas and they last forever.

[Sacrilicious]

honestly, it feels like the g35x is going to be the best bang for the buck here. it's used, so the fact that it doesn't hold its value as well as many other cars actually works really well for you: more car for less! :D

[happy and angry]

I have driven in the snow plenty of times, people complain about the summer times on the speed3, I was driving to work on them last year when we had 6 inches of snow with no problem, i don't understand how people can say its like driving on Ice with them, you can't drive normally when it's snowing or raining, no matter what tires you have.

All I was saying was, if I had to choose in order of what kind of car I would drive in really bad weather, it would be AWD, than FWD, and last RWD. Who would drive a RWD car in snow over FWD and AWD? Seriously people (drunk)You're full of crap. Launching in the snow with the MS3 with decent throttle control, especially with traction control, is fairly easy if lengthy process. Stopping is another issue. I've driven in snow and ice (and lots of it) since I started driving, and the summer tires this car comes with are the worst tires I've ever tried to use in snow. I've had better luck with near-bald all-seasons just because the rubber compound is so much softer in cold weather.

Your crap about RWD being inherently dangerous is nuts. There is no magic formula for safety or danger where drivetrain dictates which is safe and which isn't. A FWD car driven stupidly ends up in a ditch at a corner nose first, the RWD car goes in tail first, so what. It's less about drivetrain and more about how the vehicle a.) behaves in a skid under power and b.) recovers from a skid. A FWD vehicle is inherently easier to recover a skid because you need less skill as a driver to do it (in most circumstances, in the most common situations where a driver loses control), but that does not make RWD more treacherous or dangerous.

And your issue about RWD being better at a launch when weight over drivetrain wheels matters? So what? Starting from a stop at a red lights and stop sign are not where most of the handling issues related to winter driving come into play. Dear god.

[tiagotiago]

ok, this is getting retarded.

+1

The guy on this forum who has this (http://xkcd.com/386/) xkcd comic on his sig is so very right.

[duy856]

i would love to get an old evo or sti but up here in canada we only got the evo this year, and old sti's are still 30+k. even older wrx's are pretty pricey 20+k.. stupid canada lol. tonight im going out to test drive a 06 cobalt ss and then a 07 lancer gts. maybe i should just give up my hunt for a nice car and buy a 03 jetta tdi like my mom suggested haha (she drives one) and im not knocking vws...


isnt tax for cars crazy expensive in canada? lol my cousin lives up there and he ended up buying a used 2007 car from the U.S.. i heard that canada doesnt let people buy brand new cars from the u.s so he had to get a used one

[03.5-dc-speed]

usually srt4s have alot of miles in that price range.

i would go honda/acura because if you wanna get something really nice after being settled in the condo you wont be tied up in a loan and you would have a daily driver or nice project car.

[Alexsered]

You're full of crap. Launching in the snow with the MS3 with decent throttle control, especially with traction control, is fairly easy if lengthy process. Stopping is another issue. I've driven in snow and ice (and lots of it) since I started driving, and the summer tires this car comes with are the worst tires I've ever tried to use in snow. I've had better luck with near-bald all-seasons just because the rubber compound is so much softer in cold weather.

Your crap about RWD being inherently dangerous is nuts. There is no magic formula for safety or danger where drivetrain dictates which is safe and which isn't. A FWD car driven stupidly ends up in a ditch at a corner nose first, the RWD car goes in tail first, so what. It's less about drivetrain and more about how the vehicle a.) behaves in a skid under power and b.) recovers from a skid. A FWD vehicle is inherently easier to recover a skid because you need less skill as a driver to do it (in most circumstances, in the most common situations where a driver loses control), but that does not make RWD more treacherous or dangerous.

And your issue about RWD being better at a launch when weight over drivetrain wheels matters? So what? Starting from a stop at a red lights and stop sign are not where most of the handling issues related to winter driving come into play. Dear god.

Engine Braking FTW!! Thanks for stating the obvious (cool) I'm done talking about this, everybody that has some experience in driving in snow know AWD>FWD>RWD. Are we done talking about this?

Anyway, I feel like your best choices are in the G35x and the RSX S. Both have great engines, and I think the G35x would be alot more comfortable, but the RSX S holds its value really well. This isn't a bad spot to be in, choosing between all these cars.

[happy and angry]

Engine Braking FTW!! Thanks for stating the obvious (cool) I'm done talking about this, everybody that has some experience in driving in snow know AWD>FWD>RWD. Are we done talking about this?

Anyway, I feel like your best choices are in the G35x and the RSX S. Both have great engines, and I think the G35x would be alot more comfortable, but the RSX S holds its value really well. This isn't a bad spot to be in, choosing between all these cars.Thumbs up, guy, ignoring the point again.
RWD will kill you if its(sic) not bright and sunny outside.Weight over drivetrain wheels in the snow is only really significant when launching from a stop when inertial resistance is at its highest. In all other circumstances the major hurdle, regardless of drivetrain, is the general dynamic of the vehicle while driving in shit conditions. RWD will not
kill you if its not bright and sunny outside

[340CID]

So he lives up here in Canada where we get some snow. I think someone mentioned it but regardless of which car you get, you need to buy snow tires if you're worried about control during the winter. It seems that this thread has taken a wrong turn down FWD vs RWD vs AWD. I'll take a front wheel drive car with snow tires and drive circles around a RWD or AWD car that has summer and/or all season tires on it. All this talk about which or how many wheels are driven is trivial if there's not a set of snow tires wrapped around the wheels.

Remember, AWD only helps you accelerate. AWD does not help you corner better/safer/faster and AWD does not help you brake/stop better/safer/faster. And if you don't have snow tires on an AWD car in the snow, AWD isn't going to help you accelerate either.

[happy and angry]

Properly equipped, any vehicle can handle inclement weather well enough. I'm not trying to turn this into a drive train argument, I just seriously take issue with anyone saying that one particular drive train or another will get you killed in bad weather.

[Sacrilicious]

Properly equipped, any vehicle can handle inclement weather well enough. I'm not trying to turn this into a drive train argument, I just seriously take issue with anyone saying that one particular drive train or another will get you killed in bad weather.

the only thing that will get you killed in bad weather is summer lego block tires and a lead foot...;o

[///M Compact]

Properly equipped, any vehicle can handle inclement weather well enough. I'm not trying to turn this into a drive train argument, I just seriously take issue with anyone saying that one particular drive train or another will get you killed in bad weather.

That's my objection as well; if you are an inept driver who actually needs FWD/AWD to drive in the rain, then simply stay off the road. But don't use your own incompetent driving skills and Kindergarten level knowledge of vehicle dynamics to justify blanket statements about RWD handling.
Perhaps we should take Dilbert's advice regarding arguing with idiots.

[Alexsered]

So he lives up here in Canada where we get some snow. I think someone mentioned it but regardless of which car you get, you need to buy snow tires if you're worried about control during the winter. It seems that this thread has taken a wrong turn down FWD vs RWD vs AWD. I'll take a front wheel drive car with snow tires and drive circles around a RWD or AWD car that has summer and/or all season tires on it. All this talk about which or how many wheels are driven is trivial if there's not a set of snow tires wrapped around the wheels.

Remember, AWD only helps you accelerate. AWD does not help you corner better/safer/faster and AWD does not help you brake/stop better/safer/faster. And if you don't have snow tires on an AWD car in the snow, AWD isn't going to help you accelerate either.

yeah, very true, but he sounded like he was on a budget already, I didn't know if he could afford two sets of tires. Since S2000's only come with summer tires, I said to get the rsx-s or the g35x. It seemed like the best bang for buck out of all of those.

and that comment about RWD killing you was an exageration, I later stated that I was merely talking about driving and stopping at lights and getting going again. I never ment that it would literally kill you (deadhorse

[jpalmerm]

how about a 04-06 WRX?
01-02 Audi S4?

[jaydubz]

S2000 FTW! Unfortunately I am too big to fit in one! SADFACE!

[777sacco]

G35 is fast and fun to drive and holds four adults comfortably I know nothing about ins or maintenance though
RSX is nice but insurance in my prov is sky high as it is classed as a sports car. honda engines =timing belt :( Also for the odd time you do want to give someone a lift the backseat is useless
how about a used Mazda3? no timing belt insurance here is less as it is 4 door and you should be able to find one in your price range

[CC87]

Yea I don't know why wrx's aren't being considered a little more seriously..

About the whole snow thing, I'm pretty sure one of the most important factors is the tires. Snow sticks to snow, and whether you're fwd, rwd, or awd if you don't have grip you don't have grip.

Everything else I've seen just sounds like ego and driving slowly enough

But yea, wrx is definitely a solid contender in the 10-15k market - i'd pick something a little more gas efficient for my daily though - maybe an '04 civic si

[ms6acton]

i would love to get an 04-06 wrx but up here thats over 20k :(

[nate0123]

6S v6 manual (220 hp regular gas)
no?

[ms6acton]

i didnt even see the post from before sorry. and i didnt even think of a 6 v6. i take it you ahve one, how do u like it?

[nate0123]

it's slightly bigger than I would have normally considered, but it handles well, and really comes alive with a few mods

I love the V6/5-speed combination, and mine has all the luxury goodies so it feels very sophisticated as well

if you want a more in-depth review, send me a pm or something