Considering selling my 04 S2000 for a MS3

[mmm def]

Hi everyone,

Been doing a lot of thinking. Here's what is going on..My BMW 335 lease just ended, so I picked up a mint condition 2004 Silverstone S2000 with 7,000 miles. Love the car a ton, this is actually my 2nd S2000. Been driving it a lot, you know the deal..handles great, sounds good, and no torque. That bothers me a bit..I'm used to having a lot of power down low..Had an 01 S4, 05 LGT and the 335 so I do love my turbo cars.

Been toying with the idea of selling it privately and moving into a speed3. I actually drove a speed3 twice before I got the S2k and was having a tough time getting back into a FWD car. The power for the $ is such a great deal that I keep coming back to it. I really didn't want to mod the S2k, that's a slippery slope and it takes a lot of $ to get that car quick.

Am I fooling myself? Is the MS3 that much quicker than the S2K? It feels like it around town, but that's the low end torque. The S2k is a screamer on the highway. Anyway, lemme know what you think good or bad. I need to hear it from you owners.

I do have a Honda Fit that I can DD..so maybe the S2k is a good "toy". Don't really need another practical car, but the MS3 does have it all.. i dunno..
Enjoy!! (hi)

[1sty]

If your looking for a toy in the 20K range, there has to be something a bit more toy-ish on the used car market. I am thinking 2002 Vette or something like that now that V8 prices are crashing.

I understand about the torque, I have no love for no torque vehicles, even when built by Mazda. Thats the main reason I would not ever consider an RX8 if I were you.

[essejkcamraw]

sti/evo? im actually pretty torn, knowing the sti is a good 12k more...im sure the 12k more would be well worth it. but i love my MZ3 and could def be into it with some more power :)

[Kain]

Honestly, if I had a Fit for DD duty and to haul people/stuff, I'd keep the s2000 for my fun car. I think all the positives about that car (topless on nice days, RWD, handling balance and great shifter) outweigh the lowish torque.

[gtlaw]

I would keep the s2k, and sell the fit for a down payment on a MS3

[Alexsered]

Hi everyone,

Been doing a lot of thinking. Here's what is going on..My BMW 335 lease just ended, so I picked up a mint condition 2004 Silverstone S2000 with 7,000 miles. Love the car a ton, this is actually my 2nd S2000. Been driving it a lot, you know the deal..handles great, sounds good, and no torque. That bothers me a bit..I'm used to having a lot of power down low..Had an 01 S4, 05 LGT and the 335 so I do love my turbo cars.

Been toying with the idea of selling it privately and moving into a speed3. I actually drove a speed3 twice before I got the S2k and was having a tough time getting back into a FWD car. The power for the $ is such a great deal that I keep coming back to it. I really didn't want to mod the S2k, that's a slippery slope and it takes a lot of $ to get that car quick.

Am I fooling myself? Is the MS3 that much quicker than the S2K? It feels like it around town, but that's the low end torque. The S2k is a screamer on the highway. Anyway, lemme know what you think good or bad. I need to hear it from you owners.

I do have a Honda Fit that I can DD..so maybe the S2k is a good "toy". Don't really need another practical car, but the MS3 does have it all.. i dunno..
Enjoy!! (hi)


It depends in what you are looking for. If you want a car to drive to a course, race and than drive home, and you are serious about it, keep the RWD s2000, car handles great and you will learn so much from that car (personally, I would rather get a mx-5) but if most of your fun comes from driving, and than sometimes smoking that mustang or older vette or something beside you, get the speed3. The speed3 definatly has the low end that the s2000 doesnt and personally, it's alot more fun to drive, I have a yamaha r6, so thats where I get my high reving thrill from, i don't want that in a car.

If you want a car to mod and just have fun with, get the speed3. A Cold air intake on the s2000 will give you 5+ peak hp, you could probably see 20+ peak hp with a cp-e cold air intake on a speed3.

Either way, I don't think you would regret it unless you hate fwd, but even than, the mazdaspeed3's handling makes up for that.

[FrequentFlyer]

I had a 2004 S2000 with just a single exit cat-back exhaust, so basically stock and although the MS3 "feels" faster, I don't really think it is because the S2000 makes up for it up top. They're close though. If you want that out of the hole torque, then of course the S2000 is going to disappoint you. It definitely a different kind of "quick" than the MS3. I enjoy the MS3's torque, but something about it leaves me wanting more and it's the fact that after 5500 or so, the car falls on its face, which is wear the S2000 wakes up. I have a hard time shifting below 6k in this car after owning an S2000 and an RSX Type S. Don't forget that the S2k has a 4.10 final drive with a 1.208 secondary reduction vs. the MS3's 3.941 in 1st-4th and the S2000 weighs about 300lb less. Honestly, the only reason why I got rid of my S2000 was because I was using it as a DD and that's not what it's for. I really only wanted one car, so keeping it as a "toy" was not an option. If I could have kept it as the weekend "toy", there would be NO WAY IN HELL I would replace an S2000 with a FWD 5-door sport wagon that just happens to be pretty quick. Lets face it, the reason this car sells is because it's practical as well as sporty. The S2000 is just not a practical car and it only appeals to a certain group of people.

[Sacrilicious]

as everyone else is saying, if you already have a DD (the fit), there's no good reason to get the ms3 over a RWD dream handler! ;) sure, the ms3 is faster in a straight line, but unless that's all you want to do with the car, the s2k is just a far superior sports car...=/

[///M Compact]

NO WAY would I flip an S2000 for an MS3. I wish I had never decided to try a FWD sled, I don't care how "fast" it is. At least I own my MS3 free and clear, so I won't be stuck with it too much longer.
Keep the S2000.

[happy and angry]

I've recently turned to your way of thinking, M. I love most things about the car, but it's wrong-wheel-drive and it drives me up the wall. It's a lot of power to put down from the front, and because of the torque/boost limiting in first and second and traction issues, the car is a good 1/2 second slower in the 1/4 and the 0-60 than it could be considering the power to weight. Plus the driving dynamics, while good, just aren't what I'm looking for in a car. I almost wish I'd picked up a used STi or waited a year or two for the Evo's to hit the market in Canada, or maybe even the G8. I guess I really want a RWD/AWD vehicle, partly so I don't feel so restricted by drive train and traction when it comes to speed, and partly because their dynamics are just more balanced.

Of course, while I can afford to upgrade the ride, it would be pretty financially silly for me to do so right now. I own it outright, and I love its versatility. Doesn't stop me from drooling over a 135 or an Evo MR, though.

[///M Compact]

Of course, while I can afford to upgrade the ride, it would be pretty financially silly for me to do so right now.


That's the same boat I'm in. Financially I really can't justify getting rid of the blasted thing. Right I'm only using it as my work beater, but I'll be living with the four-wheeled consequences of my moronic decision for some time to come.

[intak3_bLkMs3]

keep the s2k and turbo it =D

[15min5k]

Yeah the MS3 is pretty much just an over powered FWD POS. Stay with the S2000.

[15min5k]

That's the same boat I'm in. Financially I really can't justify getting rid of the blasted thing. Right I'm only using it as my work beater, but I'll be living with the four-wheeled consequences of my moronic decision for some time to come.

Yeah I bet it makes a great work beater.

[happy and angry]

That's the same boat I'm in. Financially I really can't justify getting rid of the blasted thing. Right I'm only using it as my work beater, but I'll be living with the four-wheeled consequences of my moronic decision for some time to come.I don't think my buying it was a moronic decision, I'm just not as happy with it as I'd like to be considering I bought it as a combination toy/DD. I don't have a lot of experience with high-powered FWD rides, and I didn't think it was going to be as hampered by drive train layout as it is.

It's a fantastic car for what it is, I guess the FWD just isn't for me. I'm probably stuck with it for a few years, now, though. Could be worse, it is still a fantastic car.

[parkerfe]

I test drove an STi, EVO X, Acura TSX, VW GTI and R32, Infiniti G37 and Honda Civic and chose the MS3 as the better car for my needs, And I came from 15 years of three M5 5s in a row(e34, e39 and e60). I love my new MS3...it is fun to drive, handles great and is much cheaper to buy and operate than an M car...while I have a Ferrari for weekend fun, I will never go back to a BMW as my daily driver...

[///M Compact]

I don't think my buying it was a moronic decision,

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. I was just saying that it was a moronic decision for me. I thought it would be fun to try something different and instead I'm stuck with a car that I don't enjoy driving at all. I have never become bored with a car so quickly. I also thought it might be fun to take the sled to a few HPDEs. Wrong. It's the first car that ever made me look forward to the end of a track session.

[Sacrilicious]

I test drove an STi, EVO X, Acura TSX, VW GTI and R32, Infiniti G37 and Honda Civic and chose the MS3 as the better car for my needs, And I came from 15 years of three M5 5s in a row(e34, e39 and e60). I love my new MS3...it is fun to drive, handles great and is much cheaper to buy and operate than an M car...while I have a Ferrari for weekend fun, I will never go back to a BMW as my daily driver...

words cannot describe the jealousy and sadness that i feel...(sad2)

[zim]

for everyone that bought the ms3, you knew what you were getting into when you signed the papers, obviously. I don't know how some of you are so disappointed with the ms3. it gets unbelievable traction for the amount of torque it has and it's a great daily driver. yeah so what it's fwd, it still mops the floor with many other cars and it's fun doing it.

I don't understand why people buy these kinds of cars for drag racing. sure, it'll do decent with some good tires and some bolt-ons, but that's not what this car is for in my opinion. people need to realize what they want from a car before they buy them, that simple.

all I know is when I drop down to 4th on the highway it just rolls the hell out.

[essejkcamraw]

for everyone that bought the ms3, you knew what you were getting into when you signed the papers, obviously. I don't know how some of you are so disappointed with the ms3. it gets unbelievable traction for the amount of torque it has and it's a great daily driver. yeah so what it's fwd, it still mops the floor with many other cars and it's fun doing it.

I don't understand why people buy these kinds of cars for drag racing. sure, it'll do decent with some good tires and some bolt-ons, but that's not what this car is for in my opinion. people need to realize what they want from a car before they buy them, that simple.

all I know is when I drop down to 4th on the highway it just rolls the hell out.


+1

[Sacrilicious]

for everyone that bought the ms3, you knew what you were getting into when you signed the papers, obviously. I don't know how some of you are so disappointed with the ms3. it gets unbelievable traction for the amount of torque it has and it's a great daily driver. yeah so what it's fwd, it still mops the floor with many other cars and it's fun doing it.

I don't understand why people buy these kinds of cars for drag racing. sure, it'll do decent with some good tires and some bolt-ons, but that's not what this car is for in my opinion. people need to realize what they want from a car before they buy them, that simple.

all I know is when I drop down to 4th on the highway it just rolls the hell out.

like i said, if i already have a DD, i'd have picked the s2k over the ms3. as far as a DD goes, the ms3 does NOT disappoint! ;)

[happy and angry]

for everyone that bought the ms3, you knew what you were getting into when you signed the papers, obviously. I don't know how some of you are so disappointed with the ms3. it gets unbelievable traction for the amount of torque it has and it's a great daily driver. yeah so what it's fwd, it still mops the floor with many other cars and it's fun doing it.

I don't understand why people buy these kinds of cars for drag racing. sure, it'll do decent with some good tires and some bolt-ons, but that's not what this car is for in my opinion. people need to realize what they want from a car before they buy them, that simple.

all I know is when I drop down to 4th on the highway it just rolls the hell out.At what point did I ever say I didn't know what I was getting into when I bought it? Are you having trouble understanding my posts or something?

Most of the toys I've played with have been AWD or RWD, and the handling dynamics, from corner entry to corner exit, are dramatically different, and to my tastes, more fun. It's not about drag racing, or how well it handles how much torque it makes, it's that it doesn't (and can't ever be made to) handle power as well as other drive train layouts, or have the same driving dynamics.

I knew what it was when I bought it, I think it's a fantastic car, but I am still not as happy with it as I'd like. If I could get out of the car without taking a big financial hit, I would make the move to get into something similar yet RWD/AWD.

[happy and angry]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. I was just saying that it was a moronic decision for me.Yea, I know. I was just putting my thoughts about my choice out there. Wasn't thinkin' you were misrepresenting/insulting me or anything.

[///M Compact]

At what point did I ever say I didn't know what I was getting into when I bought it? Are you having trouble understanding my posts or something?

Most of the toys I've played with have been AWD or RWD, and the handling dynamics, from corner entry to corner exit, are dramatically different, and to my tastes, more fun. It's not about drag racing, or how well it handles how much torque it makes, it's that it doesn't (and can't ever be made to) handle power as well as other drive train layouts, or have the same driving dynamics.

I knew what it was when I bought it, I think it's a fantastic car, but I am still not as happy with it as I'd like. If I could get out of the car without taking a big financial hit, I would make the move to get into something similar yet RWD/AWD.

+1

[zim]

I'm not having trouble understanding your posts, I was simply speaking for everyone on my behalf, sorry for that.

I'm just not into the nitpicking that goes on these days about platforms and drivetrain layouts when people are simply just using these cars on the street and not for the race track. even on a racetrack, the ms3 will purely shine for what it is. this car oversteers more than it understeers from my experience which is pretty rare for a front wheel drive layout with factory suspension. so whatever, I'm just babbling and speaking my mind. I for one can say that buying the ms3 was one of the best decisions I've made.

[FrequentFlyer]

I'm not having trouble understanding your posts, I was simply speaking for everyone on my behalf, sorry for that.

I'm just not into the nitpicking that goes on these days about platforms and drivetrain layouts when people are simply just using these cars on the street and not for the race track. even on a racetrack, the ms3 will purely shine for what it is. this car oversteers more than it understeers from my experience which is pretty rare for a front wheel drive layout with factory suspension. so whatever, I'm just babbling and speaking my mind. I for one can say that buying the ms3 was one of the best decisions I've made.

And that's fine. I'm not sure anyone said they were disappointed with buying an MS3. I bought it because it was fast, practical, cheap, good looking and could hold a baby seat in the back (of course it's not fast when the baby is in the car). I had been in denial about having to give in and buy a 4 door car for a long time and finally bit the bullet with the MS3. I never thought I'd get a 4 door car, but having a baby will do that to you. It's a great car, don't get me wrong, but it is no S2000. Being able to lay tracks from 3k RPM in 2nd gear with 280+ ft-lb of torque is great fun and is nothing I could come close to doing with the S2000, but I'm telling you the combination of the 8,000+ RPM redline, digital F1 style tachometer, nice leather seats that fit me like a glove, the best manual tranny I've ever driven period, that roadster feel and awesome handling, I just do not compare the S2000 to the MS3. I bought the MS3 because I needed a practical car that was still fun to drive. When the S2000 came out in '00, it competed with the Boxster, SLK, M Roadster, cars $10k+ more expensive than it and most of the time, it kicked their asses for thousands less. Two totally difference cars and if I had the cash to have both, I probably would. I wouldn't mind picking up the new CR version, minus ugly seats. Having owned an S2000 for almost 4 years, it was definitely the most fun car I've ever owned, other than the supercharged Miata with coilovers/sways i had before it. The S2000 is just an amazing car and people bitch about it not having a lot of torque. Whatever floats your boat. None the less, it was still a blast to drive.

[pdqgp]

exactly what is said here. I sold an S2000 after having our kids because quite honestly, the fun factor wasnt' there without my wife by my side. can't haul the kids in it and while driving it to the office during the week was cool, I didn't use it as a full DD since I never, ever put the top up.

in the end, I wanted something fun in the curves, with power more in line with my V8 sedan and one that we could all pile into and yet provide me with a fun 6spd and power to go.


I had a 2004 S2000 with just a single exit cat-back exhaust, so basically stock and although the MS3 "feels" faster, I don't really think it is because the S2000 makes up for it up top. They're close though. If you want that out of the hole torque, then of course the S2000 is going to disappoint you. It definitely a different kind of "quick" than the MS3. I enjoy the MS3's torque, but something about it leaves me wanting more and it's the fact that after 5500 or so, the car falls on its face, which is wear the S2000 wakes up. I have a hard time shifting below 6k in this car after owning an S2000 and an RSX Type S. Don't forget that the S2k has a 4.10 final drive with a 1.208 secondary reduction vs. the MS3's 3.941 in 1st-4th and the S2000 weighs about 300lb less. Honestly, the only reason why I got rid of my S2000 was because I was using it as a DD and that's not what it's for. I really only wanted one car, so keeping it as a "toy" was not an option. If I could have kept it as the weekend "toy", there would be NO WAY IN HELL I would replace an S2000 with a FWD 5-door sport wagon that just happens to be pretty quick. Lets face it, the reason this car sells is because it's practical as well as sporty. The S2000 is just not a practical car and it only appeals to a certain group of people.

[RallyeRedSi]

If you have a fit for a dd i say keep the S2000 or sell the fit and buy the MS3 as your DD ;)

[happy and angry]

I'm not having trouble understanding your posts, I was simply speaking for everyone on my behalf, sorry for that.

I'm just not into the nitpicking that goes on these days about platforms and drivetrain layouts when people are simply just using these cars on the street and not for the race track. even on a racetrack, the ms3 will purely shine for what it is. this car oversteers more than it understeers from my experience which is pretty rare for a front wheel drive layout with factory suspension.Oh, it's a great car, don't get me wrong. Any nitpicking I am making is purely about personal enjoyment and feel.

I'm still pretty young without kids and disposable income. I bought it as much as a toy as I did as a DD. The handling is great considering it's a high powered FWD ride, but it will never power oversteer. It's all off-throttle and getting into the power late in the corner. This bugs me a lot more than I expected.

I've also gotten lazy as I've gotten older. I've been driving nothing but stick since I started driving, and sometimes I wish I had the best of both worlds. Slap it in drive and go, or put it in manual mode and paddle shift up and down the gears when I want to mess around. The new twin-clutch autos that are hitting the market in affordable performance cars like the MR sound pretty good to me these days, and if they hold gear well and allow me to still engine brake like I do in my ride they're pretty much perfect. I honestly never expected I'd start thinking this way, but over the last year of driving it has become a more and more attractive idea.

Part of it is me just unexpectedly wanting different things out of my car than I did a few years back, part of it is me just missing the AWD/RWD dynamic. Still a great car, don't really regret buying it too much, but I'd change it if I could right now.

[///M Compact]

In my case the MS3 was to be both my track toy as well as my DD- with a nod to practicality in that the entire family could ride in it and keep the miles off my wife's X3 truck. It is practical, the car just isn't a good fit for me.

[Donas64]

Yeah the MS3 is pretty much just an over powered FWD POS. Stay with the S2000.

wha huh? The MS3 devastates everything else in its price range and class and even several things above its price range (I'm looking at you VW R32)

The MS3 is a steal for what it aims to be wickedly fast versatile hatchback with quite good handling for FWD. great interior fit and finish and handsome styling. I'd hardly call it a POS.


To the original poster. The MS3 is awesome for what it is, but keep the Fit as the DD and the S2000 for high revving FWD thrills.

[mdavis]

I love my MS3, I couldn't be more satisfied.

However, it is a Mazda....not a Maserati

You guys can't ask too much of a $23k car. Here's a list from autospies of the 'Fastest cars from 20k - 25k'. I'd pick the MS3 everytime.

9.) 2007 Pontiac G6 GT 3.9, 2007 Saturn Aura XR
8.) 2007 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged
7.) 2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT
6.) 2007 Volkswagen GTI
5.) 2007 Saturn Ion Red Line
4.) 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE
3.) 2007 Mazdaspeed 3
2.) 2007 Toyota Camry V6
1.) 2007 Subaru Impreza WRX

[15min5k]

wha huh? The MS3 devastates everything else in its price range and class and even several things above its price range (I'm looking at you VW R32)

The MS3 is a steal for what it aims to be wickedly fast versatile hatchback with quite good handling for FWD. great interior fit and finish and handsome styling. I'd hardly call it a POS.


To the original poster. The MS3 is awesome for what it is, but keep the Fit as the DD and the S2000 for high revving FWD thrills.

I know I was just joining in on the MS3 bashing because it was seemed like the popular thing to do at the time. I was sort of making a point.

[15min5k]

I love my MS3, I couldn't be more satisfied.

However, it is a Mazda....not a Maserati

You guys can't ask too much of a $23k car. Here's a list from autospies of the 'Fastest cars from 20k - 25k'. I'd pick the MS3 everytime.

9.) 2007 Pontiac G6 GT 3.9, 2007 Saturn Aura XR
8.) 2007 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged
7.) 2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT
6.) 2007 Volkswagen GTI
5.) 2007 Saturn Ion Red Line
4.) 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE
3.) 2007 Mazdaspeed 3
2.) 2007 Toyota Camry V6
1.) 2007 Subaru Impreza WRX

Yeah that’s the only article I’ve seem that claims the WRX and Camry are faster than the MS3.

[Donas64]

I know I was just joining in on the MS3 bashing because it was seemed like the popular thing to do at the time. I was sort of making a point.

gotcha. Thanks for setting me straight. Sorry I didn't catch the sarcasm. I don't know what people expect from the MS3. Its a phenom in its class and does nothing but destroy the competition in speed and class......I still can't help but prefer the MS6 for some reason though.

[Donas64]

Yeah that’s the only article I’ve seem that claims the WRX and Camry are faster than the MS3.

perhaps the retuned WRX and not that 2.5RS thing they tried to pass off as a WRX. And apparently, the camry's new V6 is no joke. I doubt its faster than an MS3 though.

[mdavis]

perhaps the retuned WRX and not that 2.5RS thing they tried to pass off as a WRX. And apparently, the camry's new V6 is no joke. I doubt its faster than an MS3 though.

R&T has it at 0-60 6.1 sec and a 14.5 sec quarter at 99.9mph

if we slightly miss/foul up a shift that thing will get us...so be aware of soccer moms reving their engines in camrys at stop lights

[azturbo3d]

Definately stick with the S2k. MS3 is a great car if you want a sleeper daily driver that can beat most people on the road. However, I don't consider it a sports car.

S2k is more what I would consider a sports car based on its looks. Get a hard top, intake, exhaust, and new rims. I think that would be the best bet!

[robin2660]

Definately stick with the S2k. MS3 is a great car if you want a sleeper daily driver that can beat most people on the road. However, I don't consider it a sports car.

S2k is more what I would consider a sports car based on its looks. Get a hard top, intake, exhaust, and new rims. I think that would be the best bet!

With the money OP would lose on the trade he could add turob/supercharger to S2000 and get some of the low-end grunt.

I'd keep both cars and do the above. More financially sound. OP could always trade in the Fit years down the road when the need really arrives.

[FrequentFlyer]

S2000 will have higher resale value in the end also. Mazda's resale just sucks.

[15min5k]

If I had an S2000 I would have to be pretty hard pressed to give it up for a MS3. This doesn't mean the MS3 isn't a great car but the S2000 is such a blast to drive! It doesn't have a lot of low end torque or torque at all for that matter but it still moves quite well despite this. 0-60 in about 5.3-5.6 sec’s quarter mile in 13.9-14.3@ 97-99 – Pretty much even with a MS3 in the acceleration dept but handles slightly better according to skid pad and slalom numbers. However, if you look up times from “The Ring” you’ll see that the MS3 has a slightly faster time than the S2000 and its proven faster on other road courses as well so I guess It would come down to driver ability in most cases. The main things you get over the MS3 with the S2000 are: Better ergonomics (Seating position, etc) Better shifter; higher revving; better looking; driving dynamics (RWD); has proven to be very reliable and it’s a convertible.

[zim]

15min5k, you pretty much touched on every point.

I come from a b18b swapped civic before my ms3 so I kind of have an idea about the lack of torque. in fact, my b18b had similar torque figures to the f20c. I can tell you that the low end torque is not as bad as people say it is. these cars get around perfectly fine, and so what if you have to drop down a gear.

[FrequentFlyer]

15min5k, you pretty much touched on every point.

I come from a b18b swapped civic before my ms3 so I kind of have an idea about the lack of torque. in fact, my b18b had similar torque figures to the f20c. I can tell you that the low end torque is not as bad as people say it is. these cars get around perfectly fine, and so what if you have to drop down a gear.

It's all about gearing. I mentioned the fact that the S2000 has a 4.10 rear with a 1.208 reduction. Even if it's only got 165 ft-lb torque, it weighs about 2,800lb vs 3,100lb and is geared shorter.

[Bravnik]

It honestly depends on what you want the car for. If its a DD and you need room then the MS3 is better. If it's a DD and you don't need space then the S2000 is better. I drove an S2000 for 5 years and traded it in on the MS3. I simply got sick of all the road noise. Sure a Vert is fun, right up till the top starts to get loose and the wind noise drives you nuts. You then find out that it will cost about 2k to get a new top or 3k to get a hardtop :(

Now, if you want to Mod then the MS3 is better unless you have a ton of cash to toss at it. $500 in a MS3 will equal death to any bolt-on S2000 on the highway (They will get you from a stop but you will catch them eventually). A Simple MBC/Map Clamp puts any S2000 in the dust other than a FI'd one.

To get the power from an S2000 you're looking at a Turbo/SC. That's a Cost of 3-5k depending on the kit. Sure that alone should be enough as the S2000 gets 100WHP just from an SC bolt-on.

However, if you're like me you will not stop there and want to replace everything power wise. Most TBE's (if you go turbo) will cost you in excess of 2k. Stroker kit is another 2k or so. ECU Upgrade is another 1k give or take.

The end of the day you will need to invest 10k or so in an S2000 to give it serious power.

If you put 10k in the MS3 the MS3 would probably still beat the S2000. Unless of course you do a Supra Engine swap in the S2000 :)

Again it depends on what you want the car for. The only mod I ever put on my S2000 was a CAI. Everything else I could not justify due to the extremely high cost for such little gain. A fully bolted on S2000 will net you about 10-20WHP if you're lucky and put you out close to 2-3k depending on what you purchase.

My last Dyno day was with the S2000 guys. The best S2000 pull was like 220WHP with Race gas. I put down 250 and was heat soaked like crazy. Most of the S2000's that day could not break 200WHP and where between 180 and 190WHP.

So unless you suck at driving or your car has an issue, stock to modded (equal money invested modded), the MS3 should win every time.

[jdm justin]

Welcome, i'm a honda transplant and very happy with my choice. I feel I always wanted more from my honda, this car just feels complete for me.

[Nismothecat]

i had a 194whp 138tq civic hatch and it was fast as hell but not very fun to drive on the street. i would give up top end for low end torque any day.

[jdm justin]

i had a 194whp 138tq civic hatch and it was fast as hell but not very fun to drive on the street. i would give up top end for low end torque any day.

cool, my hatch was just short of 300 whp. It was fun, but I'm over all that now.

[Nismothecat]

cool, my hatch was just short of 300 whp. It was fun, but I'm over all that now.

yup its fun shifting at 9500 but it sucks having to do that to make any kind of power