TMIC or FMIC [Archive] - Mazdas247.com

MicaSp33d

09-03-2008, 02:21 AM

I know this was probably talked about before, but i just wanted to get some new opinions since both been out for some time now.

TMIC prices dropped a good price from what it was before and now i'm considering ETS 3.5 TMIC.

But the stock IC heatsoaks pretty bad sometimes that it makes me want to go with a FMIC I'm stuck between the two... IF i go TMIC i can probably get one soon. FMIC i might have to wait to save some money.

How good is the ETS 3.5 TMIC compared to the other FMIC on the market?

oaklandopen

09-03-2008, 02:03 PM

this is just my opinion on the top mount front mount subject:

top mount was they way this engine/vehicle was designed so i would stay with a top mount. if you move the intercooler to the front you're subjecting it to more damage from debris, as well as reducing the air flow to the radiator and the condenser.

but that's just my opinion, im sure there are many others who will say differently. truth is there are many other threads on the subject and a lot of stuff has already been said before

mrjoshyman

09-04-2008, 11:33 AM

if ur concerned about both heat soak & money...go with the exhaust depot FMIC -- I believe its the cheapest one around and I have yet to hear negative comments about it.

FrequentFlyer

09-04-2008, 12:25 PM

I'm probably going to go with the ETS 3.5. I do mostly highway driving with some backroads, but very little stop and go, so heatsoak won't be as much of an issue as it will for others. I'm not crazy about having to install a FMIC either and of course with Mazda dealers being as "cooperative" as they are with mods, I'd rather have something I can remove easily.

djthom

09-04-2008, 12:49 PM

lestat13

09-04-2008, 01:43 PM

I used to think that tmic was the way to go between price, easy of install/uninstall, and performance.

Fast forward.

I am so sick of heat soak killing my power!! FMIC kits are now under $1,000 and TMICs can cost $600+ (TRZ on the horrizon) and just don't offer the same performance gains or the reliability of boosting on FMIC which is consistently cooler, TMIC will keep heating up and cooling off when moving and stopping. I've already gone downpipe so the dealer and I don't talk anymore, so dealer visits are not an issue. Besides, the FMIC install is not difficult, it's just time consuming. If you can remove your bumper and install and intake, you are good to go.

As much as I say this, cash is uber tight right now and with the weather cooling off, I will probably wait until the spring for my FMIC even though I wish I could slap one on now.

tomcranems3

09-04-2008, 02:46 PM

Ive been debating this same subject...

here is the real question .. WHAT IS THE BEST FMIC ? ... Ive read alot about the corksport one ... and they seem to get good reviews ... is there a better one ? .. if so what is it

FrequentFlyer

09-04-2008, 02:57 PM

keep in mind that on busy days at the track you will get heat soak sitting in line waiting your turn...

In theory, yes, but I don't track this car.

mrjoshyman

09-04-2008, 02:57 PM

Cobb seemed to do extensive testing on their unit, and they have a pretty good rep for the quality of their products. With the corksport you have to keep in mind that it has an air ram intake as part of the system, so if you currently have a SRI or CAI, you will have to scrap that.

Exhaust Depot makes a FMIC for about $200 cheaper than Cobb & the likes, which actually uses less tubing which should mean lag is minimized. I will personally be getting an Exahust Depot FMIC, simply b/c I don't think that any additional performance (its unclear if there would be) from the Cobb or similar units would be not worth the extra $200. Exhaust Depot is new to the MS3 community, although they have a great track record with the SRT-4s.

essejkcamraw

09-04-2008, 10:21 PM

MicaSp33d

09-05-2008, 11:16 PM

if ur concerned about both heat soak & money...go with the exhaust depot FMIC -- I believe its the cheapest one around and I have yet to hear negative comments about it.

i think i might go with this one .. or if i save a little more money i might get the cobb ...

so far i am very please with the quality of cobb's other parts but the exhaust depot one is a great price.

wisniaPl

09-06-2008, 01:53 AM

trz is coming with new tmic, you will can plug in co2 sprayer

lestat13

09-06-2008, 06:39 PM

I would rather spend the extra $200 and go with something by Cobb.... I have seen the quality of their products and trust what they put out. Also they claim close to if not zero pressure loss.

As for the trz... if you already have a kit and a bottle hooked up, why spray with co2 when you can spray with nitrous for a better freeze??

meha11

12-12-2008, 08:55 AM

just wanted to resurrect this discussion now i have first hand experience with both.

TMIC (ets 3.5”)
+ Cheap,
+ Easy to install/remove
+ Held 18psi all day long with CAI & TBE
+ Not prone to accidental damage as it is protected by the hood.
- Allegedly suffers from heat soak but I never had an issue living in Texas.
- Not the best looking part with regards to workmanship.
- Can not or at least last time I checked could not download compatible map from Cobb to use with AP
+/- Can not tell it is installed looking at vehicle~ sleeper look (personal preference)

FMIC (CP-e)
+ Allegedly no heat soak issues
+ Very well made product with great support from manufacture
+ Can download compatible map from Cobb to use with AP
- Much more expensive
- More effort required to install
- Boost pressure back at 16psi with SRI and TBE
- Prone to accidental damage as it is located at the very front of the car
+/- Looks good at front of car (personal preference)

Not sure what to make of the boost pressures as to whether they are good or bad, the turbo defiantly has to work more with the FMIC but I guess 16psi is safer that 18psi but of course the car was faster with the TMIC on.

Now that the FMIC is on it is not coming off, overall I am happy with it but I may keep the TMIC as well just incase I change my mind. If I were to do this again it would be TMIC every time.

lestat13

12-12-2008, 09:30 AM

Whoa whoa whoa whoa..... since when does a FMIC keep you at factory boost levels? I took off my tmic cause I was overboosting horribly and my wastegate couldn't keep up. So I can run a FMIC and maybe not overboost????

FrequentFlyer

12-12-2008, 09:50 AM

Not sure why your were overboosting from the topmount. I don't appear to be spiking any more than I did with just an SRI (around 19) and I hold about 16 with the mods below. Are you sure your downpipe/race pipe weren't the culprits?

I went with the ETS 3.5 because it was cheaper, easier to install, gave pretty good performance gains and easy to remove if I gotta go for warranty work. I have this thing off and the OE TMIC back on in probably 15-20 minutes. My only complaint is that the heat shield does smack the plastic on above the firewall if I get some wheel hop, but I haven't had the time to grind some metal off the shield. My fix, for now, is to try not to get wheel hop.

scatt nasty

12-12-2008, 10:01 AM

he was overboosting not because of the top mount directly, but because hes running a catless downpipe with the stock flash. The tmic and breathing mods just amp'd it. I had ETS TMIC/cpe CAI/Inlet pipe and everything was fine. THE SECOND I installed my CS Catless DP I was fucking overboosting and cutting on the damned test drive... So I bought the Cobb AP and everything was ok, boost cut was at a minimum but I could only run exhaust maps because of my intake. So then I bought the Cobb SRI and am slowly rearranging my mods to the AP. I have the mazda3mods GB FMIC on order, but am currently running my mods listed below with the TMIC 103 beta map and everything is beautiful. I still get cut on the really cold cold mornings but AFR's are good, and I only get .3 KR.

CWPspeed3

12-12-2008, 10:14 AM

FrequentFlyer

12-12-2008, 10:25 AM

I've heard some negative things about the build quality of the ETS, anyone have any comments about this? Also is there a noticeable difference between the 3.25" and 3.5" in performance or cooling capability?

Not sure if they had quality control issues in the past, but mine seems well made. Welds are clean and it fits perfectly. I am abit disappointed in the heat shield since this seems to have been an issue for some time now and it doesn't seem like they've done anything about.

Rotus8

12-12-2008, 11:51 AM

I've heard some negative things about the build quality of the ETS, anyone have any comments about this? Also is there a noticeable difference between the 3.25" and 3.5" in performance or cooling capability?
The quality of my 3.25" core seems fine The plate is another matter. After I trimmed the plate so it wouldn't bang on the firewall that is OK. I also added threaded inserts for the plate mounting so the plate is easier to remove without a bunch of fiddly nuts from the bottom. Finally, I added some rubber sealing strips between the plate and the core to reduce the amount of cooling air that leaks through the cracks.

coyfish

12-12-2008, 04:52 PM

what are the potential problems of the FMIC. Other than the install, are there problems that they are likely to cause ? The only thing that comes to mind is how FMIC' block air to the radiator. How serious is this in the long run? I dont mind the install but my speed 6 is my DD and I want it to last me at least 6-7 years. If the front mounts are risky than i guess ill stick with the top mount. Top mounts seem safe. Only problem ive seen is the 3.5 ets with firewall bangs. thats not serious though.

meha11

12-12-2008, 05:12 PM

Pretty much ditto with Rotus~Core was good, i had to remove the plate and file it down to remove the uneven saw marks and sharp edges, also so the plate wouldnt rub against the cores welds. I used silicone to seal the gaps and 316ss hardware to put it back together
The build quality on these may be better now, it was about 18 months ago when i purchased mine.

I think boost levels were higher due to less restrictions with TMIC and now they have dropped with FMIC due to the higher volume, (not fact just a thought).

Rough cuts before I filed them smooth
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=101914
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=101915
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=101916

The silicone dried clear
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=101999
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=102000

coyfish
The front mount sits in front of the radiator and you have to replace the power steering fluid cooler (CP-e FMIC) which is supplied as part of the kit. Air to Air intercoolers are designed for air to flow through them cooling the fins and allowing internal heat to dissipate, so even though it does sit in front of the radiator it does not block air flow, it will restrict it somewhat but not block it. If your cooling system is fine then I would predict it’ll be ok, if the cooling system is not efficient then there may be issues but that’s a whole different problem and you wouldn’t be installing an intercooler if you couldn’t keep the engine cool to begin with.

scatt nasty

12-12-2008, 05:50 PM

if you aren't that serious into modding you may as well just go with the upgraded TMIC... A FMIC is a pretty serious mod, and if your like me modding this car is like me at the ripe old age of 15 with a girl in my room: One thing leads to another. And say the mod bug does bite you, TMIC's have awesome resale so that wouldnt be a problem to upgrade. But...just think, an extra 300 bucks and you could have a nice FMIC !!! =p

UHATEIT

12-12-2008, 06:35 PM

I have the ETS 3.25 and i got it used. Issues I had were that when i initially mounted it, the bottom (underside) of the intercooler was touching the wiring at the top of the motor where the spark plug harnesses are and i was affraid of the intercooler got hot it would burn/melt the wiring. So I placed washers underneath the mounting brackets of the intercooler to lift it up 1/4-inch or so to get it out of touching range. BUT by doing that,. it makes it appear higher up like the 3.5 does which caused only 1 hit under the hood diutging when i got a bad case of wheelhop one day.
One other issue was the fitment of the top inlet with my boost tube, it comes in at a pretty weird angle and did not want to go in or match up as smoothly as i had hoped.

The quality of my 3.25" core seems fine The plate is another matter. After I trimmed the plate so it wouldn't bang on the firewall that is OK. I also added threaded inserts for the plate mounting so the plate is easier to remove without a bunch of fiddly nuts from the bottom. Finally, I added some rubber sealing strips between the plate and the core to reduce the amount of cooling air that leaks through the cracks.

HEY where did you get that sealent strip setup? I have that same crack/gap between the plate and the core and wanted to fill the gap as well to close any air leaks to make sure the tmic gets all the air it can get. Let me know as i want to get some, and what brand?

wisniaPl

12-12-2008, 07:12 PM

I always wanted tmic and liked the idea but i just got deal on tx fmic which is massive and jumped on it....it cant be worst than tmic and with my mods i should get from it more than from tmic.....

coyfish

12-12-2008, 07:19 PM

Yeah I know the FMIC is a pretty serious mod. My only real conscern is if it will affect my car in the long run. I love installing parts in my car so removing the front mount if warranty work is necessary wont be too bad. If im going to spend at least 500 bucks on an intercooler it might as well be a front mount right? You guys can see my current mods. In the near future i plan on getting a tune. After my warranty is up I will also probably install a downpipe. That will be it for my modding though. So far the front mount seems safe for the longevity of my car. My last question would be, would the FMIC make a noticable difference over the TMIC with my mods? Im not really talking about the heat soak but more of dyno runs. Thanks guys for the help guys

Rotus8

12-12-2008, 08:05 PM

HEY where did you get that sealent strip setup? I have that same crack/gap between the plate and the core and wanted to fill the gap as well to close any air leaks to make sure the tmic gets all the air it can get. Let me know as i want to get some, and what brand?

I got it from my favorite catalog ordering source ever, McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com). Here's the catalog page (http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.aspx?reqtyp=catalog&CtlgPgNbr=3655&CtlgEdition=114&k1=4869A2&t1=PN&ScreenWidth=1280&McMMainWidth=864&sesnextrep=485044792448952), item number 4869A2.

UHATEIT

12-12-2008, 08:24 PM

I got it from my favorite catalog ordering source ever, McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com). Here's the catalog page (http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.aspx?reqtyp=catalog&CtlgPgNbr=3655&CtlgEdition=114&k1=4869A2&t1=PN&ScreenWidth=1280&McMMainWidth=864&sesnextrep=485044792448952), item number 4869A2.

i will get me some :) I need to close the gaps between the core and the shroud, mine looks surprising large of gaps and not sure why. I think it should have come flush. Are we really losing much by having the gaps there? As in does it need a full seal to generate more power or are we losing anything from not having an enclosed tmic at the top.

here are my gaps:
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/2351/4221/30877110111_large.jpg

i would also like to use hi-temp paint and paint the shroud black as it looks terrible all worn out like that and I dont think black on the shroud would look that bad eh???

phillyb

12-12-2008, 09:15 PM

fmic ftw

scatt nasty

12-12-2008, 09:41 PM

the only question is now.. When you tune in the future what method are you going to use.. Make sure you plan your mods right now around that method. For instance if you go the AP route don't go buying some rediculous mod that isnt within their specs... But again on the FMIC issue, why not just pay the extra and go fmic. You shouldn't have a problem long term wise, just more consistent boost temps lol. I am currently rocking an ETS 3.25 and it works great, the only downfall is that it is a top mount and it eventually heat soaks.

coyfish

12-12-2008, 09:43 PM

CPE vs corksport FMIC ?? If i go with the corksport the ram air will eliminate the lovely noise of the CAI. CPE reports the highest gains it seems. Both for same price, im leaning towards the cp-e. What you guys think?

Rotus8

12-12-2008, 10:32 PM

i will get me some :) I need to close the gaps between the core and the shroud, mine looks surprising large of gaps and not sure why. I think it should have come flush. Are we really losing much by having the gaps there? As in does it need a full seal to generate more power or are we losing anything from not having an enclosed tmic at the top.

i would also like to use hi-temp paint and paint the shroud black as it looks terrible all worn out like that and I dont think black on the shroud would look that bad eh???
I don't know if the gaps really lose anything important, but they bugged me enough to deal with them. I did a half-assed polish job on the shroud, so the rubbing just polishes it a bit more, but it's gonna happen no matter what you finish it with. I think paint would suffer more.

mattj3636

12-13-2008, 02:23 AM

CORKSPORT FTW..

and now, the whoosh intake is louder than ever on the ram air design, its ridiculous!

scatt nasty

12-13-2008, 02:13 PM

CPE is outstanding when it comes to quality... But really a fmic is a core and some bent tubing. It can be powdercoated, t clamps, all that stuff got it. But a FMIC isn't going to magically give you 50 horses, but it will keep you consistent.

mattj3636

12-13-2008, 03:13 PM

corksports added power... cause the inlet and intake!

Santo

12-15-2008, 02:02 PM

lestat13

12-15-2008, 02:12 PM

Hands down the fmic is the better way to go. I went tmic cause of ease of install/uninstall and the great deal I found. Otherwise, front mount will give you the best performance

wisniaPl

12-15-2008, 06:11 PM

Hands down the fmic is the better way to go. I went tmic cause of ease of install/uninstall and the great deal I found. Otherwise, front mount will give you the best performance

that i went with fmic i want to be break 300 whp on stock turbo

coyfish

12-15-2008, 06:15 PM

So, I am planning my first mod to be an intercooler, my question is having everything else stock, should I go TMIC or FMIC, which will give me better performance.

I do a lot of traffic driving, and hate heatsoking of my stock TMIC. what do the experts say if cost was not an issue?

which will give me a better 0- 60 time? how much performance gain should I expect having everything else stock?.

Thanks in advance

Front mount will always yield better performance. You have to weight the pro's and cons. front mounts will take 3 hours at least to install and are 2X the price of a top mount. If 500 extra bucks / long install is worth around 5-8 hp then go for it.

Santo

12-16-2008, 07:14 PM

3.25 TMIC claim 20 more hp's on stock Msp3, right? what should I expect from a FMIC from Exhaust Depot?

mattj3636

12-16-2008, 07:24 PM

ur not gonna gain 20 whp from just a tmic switch.

essejkcamraw

12-17-2008, 03:04 AM

im leaning towards TMIC. but the likelihood of heat soak happeing is pretty unavoidable here in fl haha. which would ultimately be useless since im in traffic more of the time than anything. so im on the fence. id rather not go TOO far from stock. but a FMIC looks soo goooddd.

Captain KRM P5

12-17-2008, 03:17 AM

i never cease to be impressed by the corksport FMIC honestly. the performance, quality and look are all there for a complete package. if it were my car, its what i would run hands down.

ericrapp

12-20-2008, 02:46 PM

ur not gonna gain 20 whp from just a tmic switch.My first mod was the ETS 3.5 and my second was the rear motor mount which stopped the rubbing from rotation of the motor. The intercooler upgrade was one of my best investments and I would not be surprised that almost twenty horse was picked up. Definitely changed the cars attitude under full throttle enough that i sure noticed. But i believe the front mount is still the best way to go if you are tracking the car. Staging or any waiting after a run will heat soak a top mount even with the hood open has been my experience. I will stay with my top mount for awhile. Be sure to upgrade clamps and intercooler piping if you stay top mount though. The stock stuff is not up to task.

myspeedy07

12-20-2008, 02:57 PM

ur not gonna gain 20 whp from just a tmic switch.

Really????
http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/Mazda-Mazdaspeed-3-Intercoolers-and-Piping-Kits-Intercooler-Only/c4_42_50_51/p119/ETS-MazdaSpeed-3-Top-Mount-Intercooler-ETS_MSP_TOPMT/product_info.html

The ETS TMIC will gain you 2 PSI more, consistently to the motor, due to it being way less restrictive than the stock TMIC.

ericrapp

12-20-2008, 03:01 PM

bear in mind, with a larger flowing ic AND afree flowing exhaust your boost will increase even more. This can be good or bad depending on your resources!

lestat13

12-20-2008, 03:10 PM

bear in mind, with a larger flowing ic AND afree flowing exhaust your boost will increase even more. This can be good or bad depending on your resources!

Had to take off my tmic cause I was overboosting bad. I am putting the factory downpipe back on and already sold my upgraded tmic, but if I decide to get a fmic later I should not get overboost should i?

coyfish

12-20-2008, 08:14 PM

Had to take off my tmic cause I was overboosting bad. I am putting the factory downpipe back on and already sold my upgraded tmic, but if I decide to get a fmic later I should not get overboost should i?

Why wouldn't you? The FMIC is equally or slightly more efficnient than the top mount (not head soaked of course). Did you try a boost controller or anything? You put a lot of work in your car to just back out :(.

coyfish

12-20-2008, 08:17 PM

Do boost tubes make a difference? 85 bucks, they are kind of pricey for such a small tube.

lestat13

12-20-2008, 08:19 PM

I was overboosting and the wastegate couldn't hold up. Besides, with warranty smoking turbo and emissions, downpipe is going back on permanently.

I never had an upgraded intercooler without my downpipe and I was double checking that there should be no overboost issues with a stock turboback and new intercooler

coyfish

12-21-2008, 11:50 AM

lestat13

12-21-2008, 11:54 AM

At first, gonna have it appraised and see if I can get warranty work. Afterwards test is gonna stay, but dp have gotta go. Like I said before, dp was the only install I didn't trust myself to do

wisniaPl

12-21-2008, 11:54 AM

get tuned ....you wont be overboosting...and for dp and tmic you need fuel pump

ericrapp

12-21-2008, 02:31 PM

Do boost tubes make a difference? 85 bucks, they are kind of pricey for such a small tube.when i replaced my intercooler i found my stock tubes were very soft, which is bad and the stock clamps seemed to loosen up, boost was inconsistent. I spent the money and bought the heavier hoses and t clamps. That helped alot. 85 bucks is very expensive but nothing else was available at the time. I feel that this upgrade is important, so shop around maybe there are more brands available nowadays if you are going to run even higher boost you will want to think about even stiffer material yet. i think heat was the factor that softened up the stock tubes!