side-by-side comparo of GT HID's vs' Sport HID's

[emessthree]

I did some searching and found a post asking about the headlight/projector differences between the sport model and the GT model, but noone had a definitive answer as to whether or not the assembly is the same in the sport model as it is in the GT model. My search didn't answer my question or get me the info I am looking.

I am ordering a 5000K conversion kit, but i want to see what the differences are in the headlight assembly/housing/projector.

If anyone has a picture of their GT HID's against a wall or something for me to compare to a Sport model showing their HID's post em up! So, I am looking for GT HID light cutoff/clarity vs Sport HID light clarity.

Seems like noone on this forum is 100% sure about the differences between the sport and GT headlights.

[mazpro]

The assembly is different between the 2, The GT have the Ballast integrated with the headlight.

I don't have any pictures, but i can take some of my GT if u tell me what you want to see.

[Rotus]

The assembly is different between the 2, The GT have the Ballast integrated with the headlight.

I don't have any pictures, but i can take some of my GT if u tell me what you want to see.

GT also has adjustable cutoff.

[emessthree]

The assembly is different between the 2, The GT have the Ballast integrated with the headlight.

I don't have any pictures, but i can take some of my GT if u tell me what you want to see.

I just want to see the difference in light output/pattern of the sport vs the GT model.

A picture of the GT HID's shining up against a wall that shows the light cutoff would be what Im looking for.

(thumb)

[icspots]

No pictures, but the optics are different. The HID projector has a deeper bowl (longer lamp) and the shield is separate from the bowl. I believe the lens is the same between the halogen and HID projectors. With the different shape to the projector and the spacing of the shield the HID cutoff is way sharper, and more consistently distributes light throughout the beam to make it wider and have fewer hot spots.

As for the housing there aren't any differences (that I know of) except for the leveling motor. Really the big difference is in the projector itself.

So will a H7 HID kit be better than halogens by way of light production? Yes. Will it be better than a HID projector? No.

[icspots]

Okay I found some pics from Operator at mazda 3 forums.

stock halogen with HID conversion

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3082/dscf1185jb8.jpg

OEM HID with clear EVO lens and washer mod

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5342/1001192gu8.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/246/1001205kr2.jpg

[Rotus8]

Okay I found some pics from Operator at mazda 3 forums.

stock halogen with HID conversion

OEM HID with clear EVO lens and washer mod

That HID conversion looks like trouble. The hump in the middle looks to be higher than the lights which is sure to piss off a alot of people coming the other direction. You can also see quite a bit of spill above the cut off line. This is the reason HID conversions are illegal.

[mr_mazda329]

That HID conversion looks like trouble. The hump in the middle looks to be higher than the lights which is sure to piss off a alot of people coming the other direction. You can also see quite a bit of spill above the cut off line. This is the reason HID conversions are illegal.


LOL. I don't want to burst your bubble, but the spill above is from the light reflecting off the driveway. I get the same thing in mine even with oem halogens.

[rapter]

HIDS are illegal? maybe where your from, does anyone know if there illegal in Canada/Alberta? cause i have had them on my protege for over a year now and i havent had a problem yet driving behind cops too?
i guess i kinda answered my own question lol.

[mr_mazda329]

HIDS are illegal? maybe where your from, does anyone know if there illegal in Canada/Alberta? cause i have had them on my protege for over a year now and i havent had a problem yet driving behind cops too?
i guess i kinda answered my own question lol.

I, too have had illegal HID's, on my miata for almost a year. I never get flashed or pulled over for a fix-it ticket. The miata doesn't have to worry about passing any state inspections tho thank god.

[nhluhr]

GT also has adjustable cutoff.What do you mean by this?

[Hank3]

Maybe he means the leveler settings from 0-3 so you can adjust the beam when you have passengers/load in the back.

[nhluhr]

Maybe he means the leveler settings from 0-3 so you can adjust the beam when you have passengers/load in the back.
i was hoping he knew something i didn't... if he's talking about the leveler, that thing doesn't adjust the cutoff. it adjusts the entire aim. :unamused:

[Hank3]

Haha - yeah I wish there were a magic button to adjust the cutoff.

[icspots]

That HID conversion looks like trouble. The hump in the middle looks to be higher than the lights which is sure to piss off a alot of people coming the other direction. You can also see quite a bit of spill above the cut off line. This is the reason HID conversions are illegal.

The conversion picture is a perfect example of the difference in light distribution when using HIDs in a halogen housing. Note the blurry cutoff, the excess light spilling above the cutoff, much less broad beam, and the uneven lighting below the cutoff (i.e. hotspots in the center and dimmer to the sides).


LOL. I don't want to burst your bubble, but the spill above is from the light reflecting off the driveway. I get the same thing in mine even with oem halogens.

Some of the spill is reflection off of the driveway, however the bulk of it is just light spillage (is that actually a word?) Note that you don't see it with the HID projector, and the ground is wet in those pictures..... btw the glare you see in the "wet" picture is light reflecting off the water. Just to further illustrate here's another picture from operator in the same driveway after his HID projector retrofit. Now try telling me it's the driveway. ;)

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8829/1001179lp8.jpg


HIDS are illegal? maybe where you're from, does anyone know if they're illegal in Canada/Alberta? cause i have had them on my protege for over a year now and i havent had a problem yet driving behind cops too?
i guess i kinda answered my own question lol.

All aftermarket HIDs are illegal in the US (not sure about Canada). That's why all the HID kits will say something like "off road use only". And just because you have something that's technically illegal on your car and haven't been ticketed for it doesn't make it less illegal. For the most part HID kits aren't a problem unless people install them in reflector housings, they're horribly misaimed, or they use a super high color temp.


What do you mean by this?

I think he's referring to the shield in the projector. In the halogen projector the shield is attached to the bowl, however in the HID projector the shield is separate. Because of that you can insert washers between the shield and the projector to allow some light leakage from the sides. The results of this? increased color along the cutoff, and the characteristic light flicker when seeing the lights from an angle. This bluish flicker is what most people with higher kelvin HIDs are trying to imitate. The thing is that all OEM HIDs are ~4300k temp. which is white, and the blue flicker is just the light leaking. Most newer OEM HIDs use a frosted lens which decreases the flicker so as to distract other drivers less.

[nhluhr]

I think he's referring to the shield in the projector. In the halogen projector the shield is attached to the bowl, however in the HID projector the shield is separate. Because of that you can insert washers between the shield and the projector to allow some light leakage from the sides. The results of this? increased color along the cutoff, and the characteristic light flicker when seeing the lights from an angle. This bluish flicker is what most people with higher kelvin HIDs are trying to imitate. The thing is that all OEM HIDs are ~4300k temp. which is white, and the blue flicker is just the light leaking. Most newer OEM HIDs use a frosted lens which decreases the flicker so as to distract other drivers less.yeah man i hear you... i'm a disciple of Daniel Stern Lighting myself. It's amazing how many people do lighting poorly.

More info on this washer mod? I am assuming it would make for a hotter foreground, when the hotspot/cutoff is reaimed, right?

[emessthree]

yeah man i hear you... i'm a disciple of Daniel Stern Lighting myself. It's amazing how many people do lighting poorly.

More info on this washer mod? I am assuming it would make for a hotter foreground, when the hotspot/cutoff is reaimed, right?


thanks for the info everyone.

I have a 5000K 35 Kit on the way which will be installed next wednesday.

We'll see how it looks, 5000K 35 Watts bulbs are about 2300 lumens so the light will be 2x of the stock halogen bulb. It looks an HID drop in with the sport lights will look good, but not as good as the GT HID's.

I'll post pics of my 5000K 35 watt setup when its installed if anyone is interested.

[mr_mazda329]

Post pics when you have them

[icspots]

yeah man i hear you... i'm a disciple of Daniel Stern Lighting myself. It's amazing how many people do lighting poorly.

More info on this washer mod? I am assuming it would make for a hotter foreground, when the hotspot/cutoff is reaimed, right?

Basically you remove the projector bowl from the front of the projector (where the lens is housed) and put a few washers between them when you put it back together. This allows a bit of light to leak out around the edges of the lens, gives the colored effect on the cutoff, and the flicker from the sides.

Here's the HID projector disassembled with the washers in place

http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/8723/1001153xh8.jpg

And here's the projector reassembled with the washers

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/7861/1001162nr0.jpg

You can use varying numbers of washers to produce differing color effects. Here's some examples from respiro on mazda 3 forums.

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/9884/libertysy2.jpg
http://k53.pbase.com/g6/86/755386/2/79220394.zi9h9hgN.jpg
http://k43.pbase.com/g6/86/755386/2/79220392.G30naqOe.jpg

[nhluhr]

so you're just moving the lens out of the focal point of the bowl... causing that nice fringing... neat mod.

What I'm actually looking for though is a way to change the aim of the high beams relative to the low beams. I feel the highs are too high with the lowbeams correctly aimed, evidenced by the dim gap between the two beams instead of a smooth transition.

[rapter]

All aftermarket HIDs are illegal in the US (not sure about Canada). That's why all the HID kits will say something like "off road use only". And just because you have something that's technically illegal on your car and haven't been ticketed for it doesn't make it less illegal. For the most part HID kits aren't a problem unless people install them in reflector housings, they're horribly misaimed, or they use a super high color temp.


.


Yes thats true, i also have front heavy window tint, i have been pulled over for speeding but the cop never mentioned anythign about the window tint, althought one time i did get a warning.
ok i think mine are just in the stock reflector housing, do you mean reflector housing as, thats what my protege has, if you dont have Projectors. hmmmmm interesting, and i have 5K color

http://photos-512.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v217/250/37/1125176512/n1125176512_30113637_5367.jpg

so what do you think? looks bad, ive always wanted projectors but i wasnt aware you could install them over a stock housing.

[icspots]

Yes thats true, i also have front heavy window tint, i have been pulled over for speeding but the cop never mentioned anythign about the window tint, althought one time i did get a warning.
ok i think mine are just in the stock reflector housing, do you mean reflector housing as, thats what my protege has, if you dont have Projectors. hmmmmm interesting, and i have 5K color

http://photos-512.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sf2p/v217/250/37/1125176512/n1125176512_30113637_5367.jpg

so what do you think? looks bad, ive always wanted projectors but i wasnt aware you could install them over a stock housing.

The problem with putting HIDs into a stock halogen reflector housing is that there's no control as to where the light's going. HIDs put out 2-3x as much light as halogens, so just spraying that light everywhere can easily blind oncoming drivers. Projector housings have a shield which provides an upper cutoff for the light. Basically it's bright as hell from about someone's side mirror down, but above that it's dark. There are some cars with reflector HIDs, however they're specially designed to control where the light goes, and they use a different HID lamp. You can install a projector where a reflector dish is, it just takes a bunch of fabrication to do. HERE's (http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=75144) a great walkthrough where someone retrofitted HIDs into a scion tC. If you're not up to that amount of work you can always go with a company which does stuff like that like http://www.customlightz.com/ ....... of course you pay more for that, but check out their gallery and you'll see how good their work is.

[rapter]

wow thats some great stuff, man i thought i new alot on HIDs, you really made me do more research, thx man.
Hmm maybe ill just aim my HIDS alittle more down then, but oyu know i have them on all the time, day and night, and nobody has really complained yet, and i have asked them too, you know what i really need to do is drive in front of my car in someone elses car and see for myself. thats the only way to really tell.

OK so your saying i cant take alike a BMW projector lens and install it into my car, i have heard others taking Mercs projectors and modifying it to the car, is it just a lens?

[icspots]

wow thats some great stuff, man i thought i new alot on HIDs, you really made me do more research, thx man.
Hmm maybe ill just aim my HIDS alittle more down then, but oyu know i have them on all the time, day and night, and nobody has really complained yet, and i have asked them too, you know what i really need to do is drive in front of my car in someone elses car and see for myself. thats the only way to really tell.

OK so your saying i cant take alike a BMW projector lens and install it into my car, i have heard others taking Mercs projectors and modifying it to the car, is it just a lens?

If you're talking about adding a projector lens to your reflector housing, no that won't work. What you actually do is install the entire projector inside the reflector, or remove the reflector dish (i.e. cut it off) and put the projector in it's place. Here's a pic from that scion retrofit showing what I mean about sticking the projector inside the reflector. Basically the way to get perfect HID performance is by using a HID projector.

http://www.scionlife.com/tech/images/hid_retrofit_tc/DSC02028.JPG

He actually ended up cutting away the entire reflector and fabricating a mounting plate in it's place. Anyway the end result.

Before
http://www.scionlife.com/tech/images/hid_retrofit_tc/DSC02124.JPG

After
http://www.scionlife.com/tech/images/hid_retrofit_tc/DSC02144.JPG

[rapter]

Ok yeah, makes sense the Projector can not be installed with the reflector housing in their becuase it would just disturb the light, thought of that when i was going to bed, lol.
ok so now i understand, just two questions left,
1. I can basically place some kinda of Nice adhesive on to the reflector housing inside, so it i just looks flat? correct?

2. Does the projector actually have some kinda for electrical hook up, or is it just a lens?

[mr_mazda329]

2. It is just a lens

[rapter]

SWEET!!, this Sounds GREAT, IM gonna do this, FIND some MERC or BMW, at a WRECK place, and install it into my car with my HIDS. ill find some Carbon fibre adhesive tape, and im sure it will look great

THANKS ALOT GUYS!, this had to be the best thread yet.

[icspots]

Ok yeah, makes sense the Projector can not be installed with the reflector housing in their becuase it would just disturb the light, thought of that when i was going to bed, lol.
ok so now i understand, just two questions left,
1. I can basically place some kinda of Nice adhesive on to the reflector housing inside, so it i just looks flat? correct?

2. Does the projector actually have some kinda for electrical hook up, or is it just a lens?

Whether or not you remove the reflector housing the projector will still be in the same location. Some people opt to cut only a small hole in the back of the reflector for the back of the projector to stick out of, whereas others will completely chop off the reflector from the housing and just make their own backing plate to mount the projector to. The projector is not just a lens, however it also isn't "electrical". The projector consists of a reflective bowl, and shield, and the lens. The lamp is inserted from the back (just like your current headlights) and sits inside the bowl, just behind the lens/shield. The entire thing is self-contained. Now assuming you install into the reflector it would look kind of silly as you'd be seeing the entire projector housing (note the first pic above). In this case you would put a projector bezel onto the front (note the last pic above).

[rapter]

oh yeah got it, yeah it would look stupid, yeah that nice housing with the projector would be nice, other wise it would just be sticking out int he middle of the air. hmmm well this calls for some custom work then. but before i do that i gotta get a Relay for my Hids, cause right now there running off my High beam power setting.

sounds good,