best horse power boost with out killign engine?

[alfveba]

i dont want to do a whole lot to my msp but i want to to be a little more than stock just to show off a little bit and i dont just want to get a boost controller and boost the crap out of it and burn it up whats the best way to increase horse with out messing up the car that is not alot money

[neox.286]

hardpipes, upgraded side mount intercooler, unichip, turbo-back exhaust....if you dont wanna spend a lot of money then you could get a boost controller and just dont boost over 10 psi, I recommend sticking to about 8-9 psi

[alfveba]

thanks a bunch i just hear about alot of them getting blown from crap that people do to them and i dont have money to really do it the way i want to right now school makes it hard how much does a better inner cooler do cuz the stock one is small as hell

[neox.286]

take a look at www.protegegarage.com (http://www.protegegarage.com)

they have good prices on side mount intercooler upgrades...that will give you some good gains right there

if you want a reliable car for daily driving:

smic upgrade
hardpipes
turbo back exhaust

that right there will naturally heighten your boost levels to the 8 psi range (and possibly a spike to 9, no biggie) and will be reliable

dont bother with an intake upgrade...the gains are extremely minimal...instead drop in a drop in filter...the intake sure does look nice and give a nice sound, but the gains are just really worth the cost (270ish new, much less used)...however, there are those that would argue the opposite as well, especially with a modded car *shrugs* theres a lot of oppinions on these things here

the one worry I would have (even when stock) is that the LSD will fail on you eventually, just be ready in case that happens...and if it does replace it with a welded LSD or a Quaife LSD, both work just fine....if you mod the car I wouldn't say it will accellerate its happening, but it cant help it either, ya know?

aside from that though you shouldnt have any problems with the mod list above, if you want to take it to the next level then I would recommend getting a unichip...its plug and play (no wire soldering involved at all) and gives good gains with the mods above (dont use the boost controller though, most will spike to 14 and thats no good), however it is not as easy to get it tuned cause its gotta get tuned by a unichip-certified shop that has the right software

anywho, that being said...good luck!

more sites of interest:
*********************** (http://***********************)
www.speedcircuit.net (http://www.speedcircuit.net)
www.empiretuning.com (http://www.empiretuning.com) (shoot them a message if you dont see what you are looking for on their site, chances are they can get it and Eric is a cool guy)

[cmahlig]

if you would like to go the cheaper route here is what i would do.

1. 3 inch electronic cutout on a custom midpipe (200 for cutout and maybe 100 for custom midpipe so 300)
2. hardpipes, mainly hotpipe ( 150 a piece or 300 for set)
3. smic upgrade (450)
4. a fmic isnt truly necessary if you arent going to boost past 10 psi but it is about the same price as a smic upgrade and a set of hardpipes (800)
5. split second a/f controller (300)
6. hallman mbc or some brand of ebc (150 or 300 for ebc)
7. aem wideband (280)

for about 1500 dollars you can have a very reliable and fast car

[BOOSTR]

If money is tight then I'd get the SS AFC so at least the car would perform better with corrected air fuel ratios. You can add the other stuff that you want when you get more money. Protegegarage sells it.

[zuku26]

Ok I'm going to give my $.02
1.The debate between the Split second AFC and unichip are arguable, I'm on the Split Second side!!
2.Upgrade to the Forge WGA, (The stock will fail) Plus you can up the boost from there as well and leave out the MBC.
3. Getting the whole exhaust can be $$$ the major short fall is the mid pipe up grade that, and if you want better gains delete the Cat's and do the O2 sensor trick for the CEL.
4. Hard pipes at least the hot pipe. The rest is optional.
5. Find a 626 intake mani from a local Junk yard or get the one from ProtegeGarage. It's good for like an extra 20 HP.
6. As far is intake goes you can go with SRI, I just put an open filter right on the end of the stock pipes connected to my MAF. That only cost $25.00 from autozone.
7. An upgraded SMIC is a must or go FMIC. Both can be found used in the for sale section. Many guys are upgrading there upgraded SMIC to the new TurboLife set-up or other FMICs, so the market is about to get saturated with good upgraded SMICs very soon!! So be keen and watch that section.
8. I almost forgot get better motor mounts they will lengthen the life of your LSD and help bring that power to the ground. This is actually really important!!!

[neox.286]

oh yes, forgot about the motor mounts

in fact, check all of your mounts next time your under the hood, they may already be ripped (another part that almost ALWAYS fails on the msp)

as for the debate between the split second....I agree that the split second is much better in that it is tuneable without going to a shop and has more capabilities...however, not everyone is wiring savy and not everyone wants to cut up their ecu wiring harness, which is where the unichip is nice

if you want gains without much work: unichip
if you want to tune your car yourself and dont mind wiring/chopping up the ecu wiring harness: split second

the wastegate actuator is also a good upgrade, though the forge isn't your only option...ATP Turbo sells a replacement wastegate as well, it doesn't seem to fail either from what I have heard so far
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-011B&Category_Code=VMSP

[neox.286]

oh, and another site to become familiarized with:
www.onlinemazdaparts.com (http://www.onlinemazdaparts.com)

they have excellent pricing on oem parts, however for the turbo components part numbers you will need to search on here for the parts catalog...he carries them over there, but they are much harder to find

[zuku26]

Well I just noticed your local!! Nice check out the Illinois section we've had a few meets this summer.
Also we are blessed to have the guys at ProtegeGarage local. You can get the SSAFC from them and they will install it for you. Another bonus is that they can tune it for you, and you could just leave it as is knowing shit ain't going to blow cause you changed a number and don't know what it may do.
In fact You can get all your parts from them and they'll put em in!! Plus you get to pick their brain in person, and they are great to deal with.

[neox.286]

^^^
in that case, screw unichip lol

[MSPLIFE]

All i can say is, that if you want to run with stock internals, a split second will do just fine. Just pick between A/F controller or for a fine tune pick F/T controller for a little more cash. And when time comes for a built motor get a Haltech. Another thing besides motormounts thats a must is getting rid of the factory bybass b/c it will eventually start leaking. And treat your tranny with respect.

[jamesk]

take a look at www.protegegarage.com (http://www.protegegarage.com)

they have good prices on side mount intercooler upgrades...that will give you some good gains right there

if you want a reliable car for daily driving:

smic upgrade
hardpipes
turbo back exhaust

that right there will naturally heighten your boost levels to the 8 psi range (and possibly a spike to 9, no biggie) and will be reliable

dont bother with an intake upgrade...the gains are extremely minimal...instead drop in a drop in filter...the intake sure does look nice and give a nice sound, but the gains are just really worth the cost (270ish new, much less used)...however, there are those that would argue the opposite as well, especially with a modded car *shrugs* theres a lot of oppinions on these things here

the one worry I would have (even when stock) is that the LSD will fail on you eventually, just be ready in case that happens...and if it does replace it with a welded LSD or a Quaife LSD, both work just fine....if you mod the car I wouldn't say it will accellerate its happening, but it cant help it either, ya know?

aside from that though you shouldnt have any problems with the mod list above, if you want to take it to the next level then I would recommend getting a unichip...its plug and play (no wire soldering involved at all) and gives good gains with the mods above (dont use the boost controller though, most will spike to 14 and thats no good), however it is not as easy to get it tuned cause its gotta get tuned by a unichip-certified shop that has the right software

anywho, that being said...good luck!

more sites of interest:
*********************** (http://***********************)
www.speedcircuit.net (http://www.speedcircuit.net)
www.empiretuning.com (http://www.empiretuning.com) (shoot them a message if you dont see what you are looking for on their site, chances are they can get it and Eric is a cool guy)


why would those upgrades raise the boost? i thought boost creap happens when back pressure builds up in the turbo and all the exhaust doesnt go out of the wastegate hole, therefore still leaving exhaust fumes in the turbo and making boost.

a bigger exhaust will reduce back pressure and lessen your chances of boost creep, right? my wastegate never spikes at all.

[neox.286]

what I have said there is from personal experience, not just with my car but with many msps that I have worked on and seen the results

I would assume that backpressure would cause boost levels to decrease...this being that there is more air restricting the turbine wheel to spin freely, the more restriction the less boost you will get

the air inside the turbo is designed to flow one direction only, if you have backpressure this is going to hinder the amount that the turbocharger wheel can spin in the proper direction

however, I speak from having seen the results of these mods, you can ask msp1222 (if hes on here, I think he is) about how much boost a catless midpipe/j-pipe that I helped install gave him....but I am not a certified turbocharger expert by any means lol

[nazgul350r]

boost tends to increase because of the restrictive nature of the stock intercooler.

[neox.286]

indeed, that may also be the reason (that particular car only had hardpipes on a stock intercooler)

again, I am no expert on the airflow mechanics of a turbocharger....just speaking from experience with this particular car is all

[zuku26]

I just had a conversation with Aric at PG about his boost creep on is MSM. He's been getting the creep and it's due to the too great of flow from his exhaust. Basically his exhaust flows so well that is allows the boost to rise. I'm not sure of the principles behind this, but he has been trying to get rid of it. His final answer from the Turbo gods was to deal with it or literally restrict the exhaust a ton.

[neox.286]

^^
that sounds like what I was saying earlier

however, on our cars I do not see this as an issue...the boost builds instantly to 8 psi on his and then only on occassion creeps to 9....this should not be an issue on these cars at all

[zuku26]

As long as the creep doesn't get past 10 psi and you have decent supporting mods you should be ok.

[neox.286]

exactally

and I take back what I said earlier, he IS running an upgraded side mount...I forgot cause it was on the car when he got it from the last owner

the only mod from the list I had put up before that he isn't running is some kind of a tune

[jamesk]

well i do not have a msp set up in my car, so thats probably why i never see it happen in my car. i usually see it with internal wastegates with high boost pressure because of the opening not being big enough. i was curious on why the msp has it though

[livelyjay]

The exhaust and SMIC will be the single most power gainers without risking the engine. Vibrant exhaust gave me 20+ whp alone. Not sure about the SMIC by itself, but it's claimed like 20+ whp as well. With the following mods I was up to 185whp: CAI, FMIC (too much for stock boost levels), Vibrant exhaust, SplitSecond AFC. I did not modify boost. Well, I did modify boost later on with the cheap mechanical spring mod, but I don't have a dyno to go with it.

[jamesk]

a new intake manifold should deff. show a gain as well