626 manifold

[kachur779]

what is up with alote of you guys putting the 626 manifold on

[justanothermp5]

creates more ponies under the hood

[808MP5]

hehe... another thread popping up in the "search"

[Captain KRM P5]

what is up with alote of you guys putting the 626 manifold on

reviews of satisfied customers;
http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/product_reviews.php?cPath=32_163&products_id=260

description and dyno charts;
http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/product_info.php?cPath=32_163&products_id=260

the 626 manifold also flows up to 40 CFM more than the factory unit, even with the butterflies opened on the factory unit.

[kachur779]

what year of 626 can we use and what other parts do you need for install

[zuku26]

I'd hate to say it but there is at least 1 thread a week on this topic and the questions gets asked everytime and answered, Please research using the search button, all your questions have answers in there.

[Captain KRM P5]

2000 to 2002 four cylinder 626
- manifold
- egr pipe
- throttle body gasket
- intake manifold gasket

i sell all of those cheaper than the dealer unless you work for them

[MSPLIFE]

when you put this mani you can use the MSP egr and throttle right?

[808MP5]

^your are correct it is a direct bolt on... the only thing you will need is the 626 EGR Tube. that can be had from ken at protegegarage or you could do a search on the corrugated egr tube... the corrugated egr tube is cheaper but you will need to make sure it doesn't touch anything along the route from the header to the manifold

[arkitek]

Does this increase boost slightly at all?
Changing my J midpipe increased boost by almost 1/2 psi. SMIC was almost another 1/2 psi.
I suspect the 20hp increase is the result of some boost increase.

[Flybye]

hehe... another thread popping up in the "search"
I'd like to know what to searh for.

626 brought up nothing and 626 manifold brought up nothing with 626 in the first page.

Maybe someone should make a 626 manifold sticky? :)

[neox.286]

I <3 my 626 manifold =)

[93mx6]

Does this increase boost slightly at all?
Changing my J midpipe increased boost by almost 1/2 psi. SMIC was almost another 1/2 psi.
I suspect the 20hp increase is the result of some boost increase.


you are correct, its flowing more air making it more efficient. good call.

its basically freeing up more available boost

[special--k]

Is there a How-To anywhere for installing one of these? If i go to my junk yard what parts do i need to get from the 626?

[kz9]

You lose a little down low I feel. But it makes up for it in the mid and high range. I find I launch better with the loss down low.

[Flybye]

Yeah. A How to would be awesome. Year and engine codes for the 626, anything additional required, etc.

Kinda funny to think I can go to a junkyard and...........BAM!!!!!!!! Another 10hp :p

[93mx6]

its pretty straight forward,

disconnect the fuel rail, the vacuum lines, underneath there is a bracket that holds the intake, jack it up or raise it if you work in a shop like me!

take out the bolt in the bracket, remove the intake manifold bolts, and thats pretty much it, just little details to remember with the vacuum routing and such, replace the $10 gasket while youre in there.

[neox.286]

Yeah. A How to would be awesome. Year and engine codes for the 626, anything additional required, etc.

Kinda funny to think I can go to a junkyard and...........BAM!!!!!!!! Another 10hp :p

there is a how to in the how tos section

[kachur779]

its pretty straight forward,

disconnect the fuel rail, the vacuum lines, underneath there is a bracket that holds the intake, jack it up or raise it if you work in a shop like me!

take out the bolt in the bracket, remove the intake manifold bolts, and thats pretty much it, just little details to remember with the vacuum routing and such, replace the $10 gasket while youre in there.

what about all the vac lines it cant be the same as the 626 and dont the injectors go into the manifold as well

[arkitek]

Cool. Where did you get yours. I'm in Toronto also and would prefer to by local if possible. Seems like PG is the only option right now. Checked with 2 junk yards and they don't have them.


You lose a little down low I feel. But it makes up for it in the mid and high range. I find I launch better with the loss down low.

[kz9]

A place in florida

[special--k]

I cant seem to locate this How-To. If anyone knows where it is, let us know.

[satyr36]

I cant seem to locate this How-To. If anyone knows where it is, let us know.

me either (rei)

[93mx6]

what about all the vac lines it cant be the same as the 626 and dont the injectors go into the manifold as well

yes i said little details with the vacuum routing, it really isnt as hard as it looks, yes the rail is on the manifold but it only has two bolts holding it down.

[neox.286]

what about all the vac lines it cant be the same as the 626 and dont the injectors go into the manifold as well

there are only subtle differences in the vacuum lines and thats because you wont be using the vacuum controlled parts that actuate the butterfly valves

its the same motor between cars lol, the 626 uses the fs motor....thus it is a direct bolt on (other than a couple small vacuum differences)

but ya your right about the how-to, I forgot it wasn't hosted here it was hosted by nsnmotorsports...heres the link:
http://www.nsnmotorsports.com/docs/thermal.html

its a how to for the thermal spacer installation, but the process is exactally the same

as for the vacuum lines, its not a big deal where you place them on the manifold, just make sure that all of the lines before they reach the manifold go through the solenoids and other parts the same way they did before, its really not that different between the two

[special--k]

Thx for the How-to. Im still not sure what parts i need to get from the 626. Is it just the Mani? or do i need
- manifold
- egr pipe
- throttle body gasket
- intake manifold gasket
etc.

[808MP5]

you will need all the parts you just mentioned... or instead of using the 626 egr pipe you could use the corrugated home depot gas line... also your gonna wanna get all new o-rings and such for the injectors

[special--k]

sounds complicated, how do i know what o-rings and shit?

[neox.286]

its not, an o-ring is an o-ring...just gotta go down to autozone and pick up a generic o-ring set and use the best (tightest) fitting o-ring wherever there was an o-ring on there before....it is definately a good idea to replace them

youll need:
manifold
egr tube from a 626 (highly recommend this cause its got the proper compression fittings on each side, but you can also use home depot corrugated gas line like 808mp5 said...I used it for a while myself)
throttle body gasket
manifold gasket
and I highly recommend replacing the egr gasket, as well as cleaning out the egr when you swap....just a good thing to do so you dont have idling issues later on (which happens a lot on the protege)

good luck (thumb)

[Viralphrame]

The o-rings are brittle plastic. If they don't break when you pop them out of the old manifold, I would think that they're reusable. I could be wrong. Either way, I've done two manifold swaps and reused the o-rings both times.

[special--k]

Think this is something an average person, with normal tools can do? for the egr tube, and gaskets, sell these at auto value? prolly?

[Crazee D]

Think this is something an average person, with normal tools can do? for the egr tube, and gaskets, sell these at auto value? prolly?

yes

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123654257&highlight=626+manifold

[special--k]

yes

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123654257&highlight=626+manifold

not sure exactly what i was suppose to learn from that thread... its really not specific about the details.

[808MP5]

damn i can't seem to find the GB on the EMPIRE's Perrin Fuel Rail Thread...

i posted all the associated part#'s for the fuel rail/fuel injector parts there.. i think it got trashed

[special--k]

Sorry for my lack of knowlage but, is a EMPIRE Perrin Fuel Rail the same as a Manifold. how does that work.
Im a little hesitant to try this project because i have NO clue what im suspost to be buying. I might take a drive to the junk yard this week and see what they got.

[Viralphrame]

Sorry for my lack of knowlage but, is a EMPIRE Perrin Fuel Rail the same as a Manifold. how does that work.
Im a little hesitant to try this project because i have NO clue what im suspost to be buying. I might take a drive to the junk yard this week and see what they got.

No offense, but if you don't know the difference between a fuel rail and a manifold, I wouldn't attempt to swap manifolds on your own. Maybe if you have a buddy that's mildly familiar with automotive work in general, you could have him help you out.

[special--k]

No offense, but if you don't know the difference between a fuel rail and a manifold, I wouldn't attempt to swap manifolds on your own. Maybe if you have a buddy that's mildly familiar with automotive work in general, you could have him help you out.

thats a Given :) lol i have a friend that works at Mazda. Hes going to do most of the work. Im just trying to improve my knowlage by talking with you nice people.

[Viralphrame]

thats a Given :) lol i have a friend that works at Mazda. Hes going to do most of the work. Im just trying to improve my knowlage by talking with you nice people.

Great! I would ask him to explain everything he's doing as he does it so you can pick up on some procedures and terms. That is, if he's a patient guy. Hehe. :)

[HondaNoMore]

re-used all my old hardware, vacuum lines, and o-rings. only issue i had was a vacuum leak between the manifold and the head when i first started it.... make sure to go over those bolts twice!

[neox.286]

be careful with the head bolts though as they do tend to strip if you over-tighten them....they are quite weak

Ive reused the o-rings too myself, but over time (and after upgrading and downgrading injectors a few times) they all did break and I have replaced all of them

just depends on your luck

[23dude]

what if you block egr line both from exhaust mani and intake mani? ive been wondering what does that do?

[808MP5]

what if you block egr line both from exhaust mani and intake mani? ive been wondering what does that do?

and thats a much debated topic...

[neox.286]

yea a lot of people will say that it can aid in predetonation by leaning the mixture out, and a lot of people say thats b.s. and that its not a bad idea to do since the egr causes a lot of problems with our idle usually

*shrugs*
I just left it on cause I didn't see the point in blocking it off

[23dude]

sooooo i wont be blocking egr lol, has anyone had any problems with the intake swap at all? because im gunna have to visit junkyard lol

[808MP5]

i would say the only problem that ppl mentioned was that the brackets underneath don't line up anymore... i have yet to fix this on mine but too lazy to get up under the car... besides it's holding up pretty good... it would take an extreme hit to crack the IM i would guess

[23dude]

yeah i think it be extremely hard to crack the intake mani

[neox.286]

they do not line up right away, but the brace is adjustable...its got 2 bolts on the manifold and 2 bolts on the block....loosen up the two on the block and you will be able to adjust it up and down and you should be able to get it lined up then

I ran into the same issue, but I just removed the brace because it really wasn't necessary considering how light the 626 is in comparison to the bulky as hell stock manifold, but let me know if the brace lines up after adjusting it

[special--k]

people say that the 626 mani has some pritty good gains. is 20-25 whp accurate?

bwt neox i friggen love your sig.

[neox.286]

hahaha, thanks

yea, some gains have shown that high of numbers (protege garage has dyno charts of the gains)....youll loose some low end but gain high end if I recall correctly

[kz9]

I just used a carbide and made the holes larger to get the bolts in.

[wickedjra]

hey, i got somebody to put my 626mani in my msp and he SCREWED UP the vacuum lines. i have no idea what goes where. for example, is it correct to loop the two vacuum lines together down on the runner? (if looking at intake installed, the bottom two ports/nipples right next to each other on the lower left side of the intake) i need help. i'll call somebody if you want to walk me through over the phone. thanks

[special--k]

hey, i got somebody to put my 626mani in my msp and he SCREWED UP the vacuum lines. i have no idea what goes where. for example, is it correct to loop the two vacuum lines together down on the runner? (if looking at intake installed, the bottom two ports/nipples right next to each other on the lower left side of the intake) i need help. i'll call somebody if you want to walk me through over the phone. thanks

that blows dude!! good luck i wish i could help.

[wickedjra]

blows big. i just went and made it so everything that looks like it needs a vacuum connection, got one. now i get my boost, but my wideband gauge is showing a big fat "10" as soon as i get positive PSI. what now?????

[spoolin_05]

hey will a 99 intake mani fit on our msps?

[Captain KRM P5]

hey will a 99 intake mani fit on our msps?

the 2000 to 2002 is generally seen as one that fits the best and is setup to supply the best gains. the ports might be smaller/different on the older manifolds.

[special--k]

hey will a 99 intake mani fit on our msps?

i read another forum and the dude was saying that the gains are the same, but its not a bolt on. you might need to drill and shit.

[spoolin_05]

yah after researching a lil more the older 626 manifolds would suck to try and fit on there im just gonna keep searching for a newer year.

[Captain KRM P5]

make sure to get it federal emissions without VTCS/VICS flaps. junkyards normally won't or don't discern between the two.

[special--k]

make sure to get it federal emissions without VTCS/VICS flaps. junkyards normally won't or don't discern between the two.

how would someone like me tell?

[neox.286]

itll have stuff attached to it on the passenger side with vacuum lines going to it...it'll be easily identified as a vacuum-controlled actuator for two different sets of butterfly valves

[special--k]

its not, an o-ring is an o-ring...just gotta go down to autozone and pick up a generic o-ring set and use the best (tightest) fitting o-ring wherever there was an o-ring on there before....it is definately a good idea to replace them

youll need:
manifold
egr tube from a 626 (highly recommend this cause its got the proper compression fittings on each side, but you can also use home depot corrugated gas line like 808mp5 said...I used it for a while myself)
throttle body gasket
manifold gasket
and I highly recommend replacing the egr gasket, as well as cleaning out the egr when you swap....just a good thing to do so you dont have idling issues later on (which happens a lot on the protege)

good luck (thumb)

for the Manifold Gasket and ERG gasket, can i get this at Autozone? if so, do i get the 626 one or the Protege one?

[neox.286]

yes you can get this at autozone

get the protege manifold gasket and the 626 egr gasket...while I'm 99% sure that they are the same, its better to just get what its for than risk it

[kachur779]

cant belive this tread is still going cooooooool

[808MP5]

626IM for the win... its good stuff

[special--k]

VCTS, no-VCTS

what does this mean?

[neox.286]

it means the butterfly valves in the manifold are removed

vtcs = one of the two sets of butterfly valves
vica = the other one

[special--k]

when would you want the Butterfly valves in there?

so you are saying, there are 2 sets of valves. The VTCS and the VICA. They make up the total VCTS?

what changes with them present vs. removed.

On a stock 626 i assume they are present, and one would have to remove them?

[neox.286]

no, you don't want them lol...they are restricting the airflow

you may need to remove them but youll have to look at the manifold when you get it

on the 626 there are only one set of butterfly valves, up at the intake ports....the stock msp manifold uses both sets and splits into dual runners rather than single runners

single runner + no butterflies is what you want

[neox.286]

er and whoops, typo: its vtcs and vics not vica lol

they do not 'add' up to make the system...they are two components of the manifold that are designed for different tasks

[808MP5]

*edit ^Ninj'd ME :)

you want to get the ones without the flaps...

butterfly = more restriction

you don't want any restrictions in the IM... i didn't know that the 626 had VICS because it's a single runner manifold... but i have seen them with the VTCS.

I would just get the one from PG. Your sure to get the correct one.

[special--k]

There is 2 different models or something? If you get a 626 mani with VCTS you cannot remove them?

[special--k]

I would just get the one from PG. Your sure to get the correct one.

Id love to, but shipping something of that size and weight to canada would SUCK!

[neox.286]

*edit ^Ninj'd ME :)

you want to get the ones without the flaps...

butterfly = more restriction

you don't want any restrictions in the IM... i didn't know that the 626 had VICS because it's a single runner manifold... but i have seen them with the VTCS.

I would just get the one from PG. Your sure to get the correct one.

it doesn't have both, as I posted above lol

the stock msp manifold has both

[neox.286]

There is 2 different models or something? If you get a 626 mani with VCTS you cannot remove them?

you can remove them still

the federal version doesn't have any if I recall, the cali-emissions version does

but the pg garage is your best bet, all the work is done for you

[neox.286]

Id love to, but shipping something of that size and weight to canada would SUCK!


its not heavy....maybe 6-7 lbs at most and its not that large lol

[special--k]

shipping on a boost gauge cost me an arme and a leg. so im not even going to bother with this. Thanks for your help, ill let you know when i decide to go through with this. I just got a speeding ticket, so that take away from my mod'n money a little.

[carbonkid]

I <3 my 626 manifold =)

DITTO!! Just had it installed last week, along with complete Medieval set, the thing pulls SO F'IN HARD above 3500RPM!
I LOVE IT!! THANKS PG!!! ;)

[carbonkid]

but the pg garage is your best bet, all the work is done for you

Agreed. Ken makes this too easy for newbs.

[Captain KRM P5]

DITTO!! Just had it installed last week, along with complete Medieval set, the thing pulls SO F'IN HARD above 3500RPM!
I LOVE IT!! THANKS PG!!!

Also just installed SS FTC myself, now off to dyno tune. ;)


Agreed. Ken makes this too easy for newbs.

thanks john

[carbonkid]

of course, Ken! the 626 IM (ended up using Home Depot EGR, even tho fugly) is simply the BEST mod I have done to date!

[spicyprotevo]

no, you don't want them lol...they are restricting the airflow

you may need to remove them but youll have to look at the manifold when you get it

on the 626 there are only one set of butterfly valves, up at the intake ports....the stock msp manifold uses both sets and splits into dual runners rather than single runners

single runner + no butterflies is what you want

I understand why you want less butterflies and less restriction, but the longer runners give you more torque. Thats why loads of these cars use them, my v6 probe had them, my friends hawn-duh has them....
If theres a thread that explains this better, please redirect me, but isnt getting rid of the stock intake gonna lose torque? Sure you gain horse, but soemtimes torque is nice too. Haha. And cant you just port/polish the stock one to flow just as well?

[neox.286]

yes you will loose low end torque

you gain a lot in the high end though

when you have a 98 whp (n/a) protege, horsepower will give you way more enjoyment than torque will

if your running an msp, this is probably one of the best mods I did to mine...and coupled with a proper tune I kicked out 200 wtq and 185 whp...with the proper tune, you can usually have your cake and eat it too

[foreverzero89]

just did my 626 mani and seemed to gain all around. i make boost so easy now and vacuum doesn't stand a chance! i use less of the throttle for the same amount of acceleration. fourth gear is actually useful now. :)

[carbonkid]

i love my 626 mani.
i love my 626 mani.
i love my 626 mani.

thanks protege garage!! My MSP is now a force to be reckoned with.

[starscream2k1]

i HATE my 626 intake mani, BUT i think its because i have a Unichip and it cant properly be tuned around the VTCS/VICS. And hence if i am crusing and hit the gas around 3000-3500rpm she bogs...then kicks up large in the upper RPM.....

[Captain KRM P5]

i HATE my 626 intake mani, BUT i think its because i have a Unichip and it cant properly be tuned around the VTCS/VICS. And hence if i am crusing and hit the gas around 3000-3500rpm she bogs...then kicks up large in the upper RPM.....

unichip tune could very well be the problem here

[mightyray]

unichip tune could very well be the problem here

Yeah I've been doing some research and unichip and the 626 IM don't work to well together. PM JDMsam and he can tune it for you. Thankfully Unichip is close to me and they'll dyno tune mine when I put it on for $200-$300.

[neox.286]

yea mine didn't pull too well until I had the unichip tuned for the manifold
at 10 psi on the stock turbo I hit 200 wtq and 185 whp

[Ricktalife]

i have the stock manifold and i still feel some kind of bogging. i just had practically all of my pipes replaced so it can't be a vacuum leak. all i have is a cai. suggestions? is it turbo lag?

[neox.286]

the msp naturally has some lag or slight 'bogging' in its powerband

it shouldn't be enough for anyone to immediately notice it, but if you drive it on a daily basis you definately notice it....it's just because of Mazdas shitty tune

[msp03.5]

I have my 626 mani and Egr sitting here just need to clean it up. What should I use to clean this B%$#@ up? oh and just so I am clear I need the protege IM gasket the 626 EGR gasket and does it matter which throttle body gasket I use? I am thankful for threads like these! :)

[Captain KRM P5]

gaskets;
FS01 13 655 - throttle body
FSJ2 13 111A - intake manifold

use carb or brake cleaner for the cleanup

[BOOSTR]

paint it after degreasing it and washing it with duplicolor high heat engine-silver.

[neox.286]

I have my 626 mani and Egr sitting here just need to clean it up. What should I use to clean this B%$#@ up? oh and just so I am clear I need the protege IM gasket the 626 EGR gasket and does it matter which throttle body gasket I use? I am thankful for threads like these! :)


I don't know the part number for the egr gasket, but ken has the others in the post above....all of these gaskets are also available at autozone too

as for the clean up, I highly recommend getting some kind of carb cleaner and also getting a sturdy metal paint spackle....it makes it easy to scrape off any gasket material that might have been basically melted to the manifold, I remember mine being caked on there pretty well when I got it >.<

[msp03.5]

Nice! Thanks guys, I appreciate the info.

[spicyprotevo]

so if unichip can't tune well with the 626, then can anyone else? i was thinking that i would do the ssafc. would that mess anything up?

[neox.286]

no no no
the unichip will tune just fine with the 626

just the out of the box tune isn't setup for the 626 and it shows....just take it to a unichip tuneable shop

[Captain KRM P5]

I don't know the part number for the egr gasket, but ken has the others in the post above....all of these gaskets are also available at autozone too

as for the clean up, I highly recommend getting some kind of carb cleaner and also getting a sturdy metal paint spackle....it makes it easy to scrape off any gasket material that might have been basically melted to the manifold, I remember mine being caked on there pretty well when I got it >.<

dremel + wire brush attachment + carb cleaner = winnar

[neox.286]

troof!

I've done both, dremmel FTW! but the spackel works too and is a tad cheaper =P

[mightyray]

dremel + wire brush attachment + carb cleaner = winnar

+1. That's what I just did and it cleaned up easy. I didn't even have to use carb cleaner.

[spicyprotevo]

so, this might be a weird question, but is it possible to port/bore out the stock mani to flow the same cfm flow as the 626? and keep the VICS/VTCS?

[neox.286]

no, because the stock manifold breaks down into 8 (4 dual) runners rather than 4 single runners....you can bore out the 8 runners into 4 single runners but the passages would be huge in comparison with the 626 which, before you say it, is not necessarily better than the 626's runner diameters

I'm not too knowledgeable on the actual math to calculate the proper balance between runner size, length, etc...but I do know that there is a balance you must maintain between large and small

the 626 may not be a 'perfect' balance but from what I can tell it is a lot better than boring the stocker to 4 runners



another factor is that it would go from a large plenum, to a small runner, to a large runner, back down to a small runner, and then to the head.....which isn't necessarily optimum for airflow

[spicyprotevo]

well, i was just thinkin... the whole point of the 626 is to get the flow (high end/horse) right? well why not get the flow (horse) AND the low end torque? i dunno, it may just be my brain tickling and brainstorming, but it seems like a good idea to me.

you wouldn't have to calculate runner length, necessarily, but couldn't you do the same thing as cc (size) matching a cylinder head? then you wouldn't have to balance the big to small, but just take the biggest small runner, make them all of the small runners that size. then take the biggest big runner, and make all the big runners that size.

[neox.286]

you do not know what you are talking about

yes you have to calculate runner length in order to determine if it is going to be beneficial

no having a really large runner will not give you high end power AND low end torque

you also cannot take the smallest runner and make all of them that small AND make all of the runners as big as the biggest ones

I believe you have the way the stock manifold is designed confused....all 8 runners are the same size....the manifold opens and closes off four of the runners so as to give you low end power and high end power, because it is a viable length runner style manifold....there are sacrifices to this, mainly that you loose a cumulative amount of power in the high end and the low end (more so in the high end)

porting out the stock manifold (from the way I've seen it, and the only real way possible: turning it into a 4 single runner manifold, there isn't enough room to port all 8 runners) is pretty well useless, you'll have 4 WAY too large runners which makes the manifold inefficient

the 626 is probably the best comprimise you can get without switching to 505Zoom's manifold (which shows really promising gains)

[Captain KRM P5]

you do not know what you are talking about


ouch, talk about blunt :)

we have bench tested the stock manifold VS the 626 manifold. the 626 manifold flows 40 CFM more than the stock unit with the flaps open all the way. 40 CFM, even with massive porting, is alot to overcome. at the end of the day, the stock manifold was designed the way it was to improve fuel efficiency and emissions at cold start while not sacrificing too much power. it was never designed to maximize power, and thats something that the 626 manifold simply does better.



the 626 is probably the best comprimise you can get without switching to 505Zoom's manifold (which shows really promising gains)

agreed

[neox.286]

lol, sorry I was in a blunt 'forcefed' mood last night =P

[mspHtown]

ouch, talk about blunt :)

we have bench tested the stock manifold VS the 626 manifold. the 626 manifold flows 40 CFM more than the stock unit with the flaps open all the way. 40 CFM, even with massive porting, is alot to overcome. at the end of the day, the stock manifold was designed the way it was to improve fuel efficiency and emissions at cold start while not sacrificing too much power. it was never designed to maximize power, and thats something that the 626 manifold simply does better.


do you mind sharing what the stock manifold flows and what the 626 manifold flows?

also, have you bench tested the stock head?

[Captain KRM P5]

200 CFM vs 160 CFM

[mspHtown]

200 CFM vs 160 CFM

thank you, and any chance you tested a stock head?

[SCMP3]

captain krm is the manifold your site sells a 626 mani or what? i plan on upgrading after the first of the year and looking for my best option.

[spicyprotevo]

so, all we have to do is "bore" out the stock mani... i guess. that's what i'm going to do with my port/polish tools when i've got the time. i'm planning on upgrading everything in my car, just keeping it stock. so upgraded SMIC, upgraded "bored" (or whatever) intake mani, etc etc, and keep all the stock features like VTCS.

[neox.286]

no it is not all you had to do to reach the same as a 626, there are airflow characteristics to take into account

just having four really large runners isn't going to give you the same gains as a properly tuned manifold (hence why 505zooms manifold shows such good gains, it's designed for a proper runner length to runner size to plenum size)

boring out the stock manifold will not see the same gains, and while you may see gains you will likely loose either a lot of low end power or a lot of high end power

[BOOSTR]

Unless you've upgraded the cams/valves and done some additional headwork, I don't really see the point of swapping manifolds. Nor do I put a lot of stock in the one dyno floating around which shows no torque plot for this manifold. Potential peak power gains aside and 40 more CFM of flow is not enough to make me want to lose low end torque.

[Captain KRM P5]

Unless you've upgraded the cams/valves and done some additional headwork, I don't really see the point of swapping manifolds. Nor do I put a lot of stock in the one dyno floating around which shows no torque plot for this manifold. Potential peak power gains aside and 40 more CFM of flow is not enough to make me want to lose low end torque.

i think you'll find there is plenty of stuff posted that disagrees with this. any breathability upgrade for these engines is an improvement that yields results. trust me when i say this is easily the number one part i sell for mazdaspeed proteges, and not through any effort of my own. people buy it, it works well, yields noticeable results on or off the dyno and people post about it. the part has pretty much sold itself. my dealership usually has three or four on hand to meet demand. it really is a good mod for the money and if the dyno was a farce, people wouldn't be buying it because you're going to know when the car gains nothing from a part that claims X hp gain.


so, all we have to do is "bore" out the stock mani... i guess. that's what i'm going to do with my port/polish tools when i've got the time. i'm planning on upgrading everything in my car, just keeping it stock. so upgraded SMIC, upgraded "bored" (or whatever) intake mani, etc etc, and keep all the stock features like VTCS.

i'm honestly not sure you will see the same gains boring out a stock manifold.


captain krm is the manifold your site sells a 626 mani or what? i plan on upgrading after the first of the year and looking for my best option.

yes it is. new from mazda as a kit.

[BOOSTR]

Never said the dyno was a farce or that others should not consider the mod. I have seen plenty of threads that refer to the loss of low end torque. But the upper end gain is there for those that want that. I've only seen one post where the end user was not happy and his dyno revealed no positive results.

In no way am I saying or implying that anyone should not try this swap. Ultimately it depends on where you like your power.

[Captain KRM P5]

In no way am I saying or implying that anyone should not try this swap. Ultimately it depends on where you like your power.

totally agreed

[KrayzieFox]

In no way am I saying or implying that anyone should not try this swap. Ultimately it depends on where you like your power.

That's exactly what it comes down to. If you don't want to lose the low end, removing the VTCS would be the closest improvement one could do. Anyone interested in removing the VTCS can feel free to check out my IM that's for sale.. all the work is already done and the price is pretty low.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123727638

[BOOSTR]

^must be in sales?

[neox.286]

That's exactly what it comes down to. If you don't want to lose the low end, removing the VTCS would be the closest improvement one could do. Anyone interested in removing the VTCS can feel free to check out my IM that's for sale.. all the work is already done and the price is pretty low.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123727638

while you are a good seller and I got nothing against ya, I hate to go against your sale plug here....but removing either of the butterfly valves from the manifold is going to affect your low end

[KrayzieFox]

while you are a good seller and I got nothing against ya, I hate to go against your sale plug here....but removing either of the butterfly valves from the manifold is going to affect your low end

No offense taken, and you are correct in that.. but it's not as much of a loss as it would be with the 626. I'm just saying that overall it's a good alternative to the 626 manifold.

[spicyprotevo]

i don't necessarily need low end torque, but it would be nice to have something that is unique. everything that you guys are saying is nice, and there IS a lot to calculate, i agree with that. i know i "don't know what i'm talking about" but why shoot down those who try?
i've been messin with my KLDE head forever seeing if it's possible to put a VTEC solenoid on there to have 2 cam profiles (fuel economy and NA power). i know people that have done crazy things to engine parts, but i wanna get as far as i can on my own, to see what i can do.
i don't wanna go crazy custom on my MSP (daily driver), so you're right on getting a 626 manifold. but i would love to do things like this on my VRIS mani on the KL.

[carbonkid]

gaskets;
FS01 13 655 - throttle body
FSJ2 13 111A - intake manifold

use carb or brake cleaner for the cleanup

Ken,
How about the EGR tube part number?

Thanks!

[neox.286]

krazie: true, but as you also said the gains are minimal

it definately is a lot cheaper mod than the 626 though hahaha


spicyprotevo: I do want to apologize for my brashness lol, I was kinda bitter the other night
but you realize that you can not add vtec to a non vtec head, right? it's not as simple as adding an extra lobe to the camshaft, there are many more components to a vtec assembly than just the cams....it simply is not possible on a KL head unles you manufacture an entirely new cylinder head for the car from scratch....if you want fuel economy and power, then stick with your stock intake manifold because it is already designed for this (the butterfly valves are for fuel economy as well as adjusting the length of the intake manifold for a smoother power band), but it is definately NOT possible to put vtec in our cylinder heads...

[spicyprotevo]

why do you say that? anything is possible. my friend, who is the Hawnduh master, and i have compared heads and it CAN work, now whether I'll be able to get it to work is a different story. you're right. i would need a different head and type of cam, but i was thinking other methods... someday. when i have money. anyways, this isn't a thread about kl's or heads or anything like that, so we should "argue" about this via PM or a different thread.

[neox.286]

lol, because I know it cannot work unless you have an entire new head fabricated, but why you would want something that limits your power until 5600 rpms makes no sense to me

you do realize that vtec is actually a power restrictor and not a power adder right? vtec is designed to give you fuel economy by stripping the engine of it's power until you decide to rev it out to a certain rpm level....

not to mention the fact that it just is not possible unless (again) you fabricated an entirely new head....which is entirely pointless, you'd spend thousands of dollars having a shop make it and then in the end loose power or make the same amount of power you do now until 5600 rpms....then have to shift right after that before the exhaust camshaft even opens up?

[MSP2024]

hahahahahhaah vtec mazdas ftw haha i thought i was the only vtec mazda damn it
on topic though i love my 626 mani haha

[spicyprotevo]

you do realize that vtec is actually a power restrictor and not a power adder right? vtec is designed to give you fuel economy by stripping the engine of it's power until you decide to rev it out to a certain rpm level....
not if you leave the stock kl cam profile as your mpg one, and then get a serious lift and adv for the high rpms that way you don't get and lift problems or shite like that.

[Deatschwerks]

Why dont you just put a B18C in your car, it would be a lot cheaper. I think i would trust the years of R&D honda has in its VTEC motors than trying to make your own. Thats if you like that sort of thing.

[neox.286]

not if you leave the stock kl cam profile as your mpg one, and then get a serious lift and adv for the high rpms that way you don't get and lift problems or shite like that.



oh my god, you don't know shit about motor design...go to a professional shop and talk with them about it, you might understand then...

[neox.286]

Why dont you just put a B18C in your car, it would be a lot cheaper. I think i would trust the years of R&D honda has in its VTEC motors than trying to make your own. Thats if you like that sort of thing.

thank you for making some sense here

honda designs the motors based around the concept of vtec....including tuning and highly elaborate ECU design...vtec is not something you can just plug in and go, you can't just drop in a vtec camshaft and expect it to work...here is a diagram of a SOHC vtec head

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/oilyplugs/fromrear.gif

you see the entire rocker arm assembly that mounts on top of the cams? you would have to find a way to custom fabricate your own rocker assembly that will mate up to the mazda head, which means you would have to custom design an entire new head with proper flowing oil passages, etc...

I'm not going to say it cannot be done, but the cost to have it done and the amount of knowledge and mechanical design skills you would need are immense...there isn't one guy at honda that sits down and designs the entire motor, it is a team that has spent years designing this and they know all the tips and tricks of it...they have the tools, and the budget to spend thousands designing a cylinder head that utilizes a proper vtec assembly that has been proven and works

[Ricktalife]

ugh all this talk of vtec...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrRvW4KAxg

p.s. the last picture is the funniest.