K04 Reworked Turbo Owners, Please Chime In...

[AutoXRacer]

I've been pondering the idea of a reworked turbo... I'd rather go with a BIG turbo, but I don't feel like taking my bottom end apart just yet.

I've been searching and reading posts on the Reworked Stocker and its not very convincing. I read a lot of lost power down low, slower spool, and not much gains with stock tuning.

So whats the story with you Reworked owners? Are you happy?
Is it worth the time and money? I don't want to have to buy an EMS just to run this turbo...

Thanks!!! (2thumbs)

[RXMmazdaspeed]

mine was supposed to be shipped back last friday, so hopefully i'll receive it this week sometime. once it's in and i've had time to drive it, i'll write a review.

[thanotosq]

Any news? i was considering this at some point in the future...

[turbo23]

I know alot of 2nd gen rx7 owners had their stock units upgraded, and saw some really good power gains. Im sure the turob can be reworked to some extent. Perhaps sending BNR turbos a email about upgrading would be helpful? They make one for a MSP http://www.bnrturbos.com/ProtegeMiata.htm Its alittle pricey, but the other mods to support a larger aftermarket would add up

[jville]

i'm really curious about this also. any difference in spool, lag, boost drop off at 5500?

[tru-boost]

i did notice a nice gain up top, even though it does not hold boost any better than the stocker in the high rpm. i think that is due to the the throttle closing. i will be getting throttle control soon !! it does in fact lose a little on the low end, but not badly. not nearly as bad as a real big turbo. i think it is the best bang for the buck. it is not for the mild modder though. you will need supporting mods to get the most out of it.

[buildabong]

Tru-boost u think I will get my bang for the buck? I have the cp-e downpipe catted, turbo inlet, front mount, turbosmart mbc, and cp-e intake... Do u think I should go re-worked or just bigger?

[tru-boost]

go reworked. why would you go bigger ??? everyone who does throws a rod through their block !! those who have big turbos without blowing a motor only run 16-17psi. go with the reworked unit and run 20psi all day long like me !!

[jville]

go reworked. why would you go bigger ??? everyone who does throws a rod through their block !! those who have big turbos without blowing a motor only run 16-17psi. go with the reworked unit and run 20psi all day long like me !!

Yea after doing some research this is def. gunna be the route i go. Buying my house 1st tho.

[Aaron@JSC]

I so can't wait until we can open source or pro-tune this car....

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

go reworked. why would you go bigger ??? everyone who does throws a rod through their block !! those who have big turbos without blowing a motor only run 16-17psi. go with the reworked unit and run 20psi all day long like me !!

Bear in mind that the purpose of both approaches is to push more air into the engine. The pressure level is only relevant when talking about changing the pressure on the same turbo. A larger turbo moves the same (or more) amount of air at a lower pressure than a small turbo does at higher pressure.

Blanket statements like "everyone who does throws a rod through their block" are inappropriate. Have you talked to every person who has gone to a larger turbo? I would wager that those who did and blew their engines had either no tune or one that was poorly done. Crank up the pressure on a small turbo without a good tune and you will probably end up with the same result.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Documents have been posted indicating that the driveshaft is the weak link in these turbos and is the reason why the throttle is closed when it is.
Does anyone know if the reworked turbos get a shaft that has a higher heat tolerance?

[ericrapp]

Bear in mind that the purpose of both approaches is to push more air into the engine. The pressure level is only relevant when talking about changing the pressure on the same turbo. A larger turbo moves the same (or more) amount of air at a lower pressure than a small turbo does at higher pressure.

Blanket statements like "everyone who does throws a rod through their block" are inappropriate. Have you talked to every person who has gone to a larger turbo? I would wager that those who did and blew their engines had either no tune or one that was poorly done. Crank up the pressure on a small turbo without a good tune and you will probably end up with the same result.yep

[Aaron@JSC]

the bottom line for me and our project car is that I would not even consider upgrading a turbo on this car with the tuning options that are currently available. Give this car a year and there will be plenty of 400+whp MS3s and it will be old news. Go look at Evo, Sti, WRX and SRT-4 forums when those platforms were only a few years old--- map clamps and wastegate porting galore--these days if your STi only has 300whp its slow..

[MS3_Kendall]

go reworked. why would you go bigger ??? everyone who does throws a rod through their block !! those who have big turbos without blowing a motor only run 16-17psi. go with the reworked unit and run 20psi all day long like me !!

Did you do the install yourself?

[ericrapp]

Go big and run lower boost. Sure she comes on a bit later but so you will stay out of boost while cruising. I am sure everyone has heard the spooling at sixty five when just touching throttle. This is a girls turbo.

[ericrapp]

um I mean something else and I am not sure how to get out of this. I have always respected women and their pink calipers and such. uh oh

[amnestia]

If the efficiency cutoff for the stock/unworked turbo is 18psi what's the cap on the reworked turbos?

[AutoXRacer]

If the efficiency cutoff for the stock/unworked turbo is 18psi what's the cap on the reworked turbos?

IIRC, I think its 21-22 PSI range...

[tru-boost]

yeah i was told 22-23psi but all the way to 7k

[ericrapp]

Tru-, running to seven thou as compared to the stock setup, which was running up to about 6100 and loosing it's enthusiasm quickly for me. That upgraded turbo feature would change the cars personality alot for the good! How does the the low end torque curve look or feel I suppose. Have you found you are shifting at a higher speed? thanks, and sounds like a good investment.

[tru-boost]

low end took a small loss in power. it is not lifeless, but noticabley slower spooling. i still shift at 6k. the car makes the same psi it did before the swap, just with a little more air volume. since my boost still falls off hard i still shift early. i sent my ecu to cp-e today. ...... full throttle on the way !!

[SSMS3]

low end took a small loss in power. it is not lifeless, but noticabley slower spooling. i still shift at 6k. the car makes the same psi it did before the swap, just with a little more air volume. since my boost still falls off hard i still shift early. i sent my ecu to cp-e today. ...... full throttle on the way !!

You're car will be an animal with the flash/tune. Look forward to reading the results!

[jville]

low end took a small loss in power. it is not lifeless, but noticabley slower spooling. i still shift at 6k. the car makes the same psi it did before the swap, just with a little more air volume. since my boost still falls off hard i still shift early. i sent my ecu to cp-e today. ...... full throttle on the way !!

Looking forward to the outcome keep us posted.

[Boost'dBeta2]

newcomer to the site here...not to boost though. Forgive my ignorance but what trim is the stock K04 in the MS3? Obviously it's larger than the BW units appearing on Volkswagen or Audi 1.8T's. Also to the guys who upgraded what size compressor wheels are you upgrading to? How about the hot side, are you upgrading the turbine wheel?
In my own experience with a Mitsu TD04-15T(obviously not on an MS3), even after upgrading to a larger compressor wheel and turbine wheel, and "modifiying" the housing, I still saw very little increase on the top end of things and was still only able to hold max. boost til about 6k. My peak power output from the stock turbo to the upgraded unit at 15 psi was around 40-50whp with tuning, which was achieved around 6000rpm, with my stock rev limit at 6500rpms. My biggest problems remained charge piping being too small,2.25 inch(not a real issue with a TMIC) and a need for extensive headwork.

[ericrapp]

I would think that 2.25 compared to 3" is just that. less potential flow regardless of ic location. If you are speaking of our stock mount yes i believe larger piping would just run into restrictions at the stock intercooler.imo

[tru-boost]

i'm not sure how much bigger the compressor wheel is, but it is very noticable when you look at them side by side. it is also lighter weight. also the hot side has a clipped turbine wheel, and is fully ported and polished. as for now it doesnt hold boost any better than stock, but that is the ecu's fault NOT the turbo. how do you expect to make full boost at high rpm when the throttle blade is only open 50% ??

updates on my flash soon to come. cp-e flashed my ecu and shipped it. it is due back to me today. i will re-install it today and drive it mellow for a few days to let my fuel trims settle in, as i do with every mod. i believe that is why my car is still going strong while so many others have blown engines with less mods than me ! you cant just add parts and go beat the pants off of it. the ecu is smart, but it takes time to learn.

[ericrapp]

i'm not sure how much bigger the compressor wheel is, but it is very noticable when you look at them side by side. it is also lighter weight. also the hot side has a clipped turbine wheel, and is fully ported and polished. as for now it doesnt hold boost any better than stock, but that is the ecu's fault NOT the turbo. how do you expect to make full boost at high rpm when the throttle blade is only open 50% ??

updates on my flash soon to come. cp-e flashed my ecu and shipped it. it is due back to me today. i will re-install it today and drive it mellow for a few days to let my fuel trims settle in, as i do with every mod. i believe that is why my car is still going strong while so many others have blown engines with less mods than me ! you cant just add parts and go beat the pants off of it. the ecu is smart, but it takes time to learn.looking forward to your impression.

[snuggles1300]

+1

[jville]

I'm excited and its not even my car.

[controlo]

I'm excited and its not even my car.

haha. me too. (dance)

[tru-boost]

well it came, i saw, and i am less than pleased. i got nothing from it...nothing. my boost follows the exact same trend. up to 20 down to 15 at
6k and 12 by 6500. no increase in boost hold at all. my boost was actually lower after the flash, and i had to open up my MBC more. i got to the point where my turbosmart is WIDE OPEN and it would not make more than a brief 22psi and then fall like a rock. after talking to the guys at cp-e (who have been very helpful ) they think that even my reworked turbo just cant handle it. if that is the case it is pretty upsetting. i dont see any better results than the guys with a stock turbo. so i think will just go back to stock flash. the only thing i did notice is it got rid of the little extra lag the reworked unit had. that extra throttle opening seemed to help spool up, but that isnt enough to make me want to keep it.

[ericrapp]

I was concerned that the bit of potential from the little modified turbo would not be realised. and sorry to hear your dissappointment. Have you played with the wastegate at all?

[tru-boost]

i have a forge WGA on it, AND my MBC is wide open. this is all the turbo can do. there is nothing more i can do to make more boost

[SharkDiver]

Ive been running the msf ap maps that keep the TP open till redline and there isnt much of a diffrence..Christian has been saying that it dont do much and I beleave him because there is no reason for him to lie about that.If it added 20hp he would put it in his ots maps.There should be more in that Cpe flash that should of made your car run better tho like your afr,timing and such.

[xcoldr1cex]

any before and after logs? :\

do you have an upgraded fuel pump?

[SharkDiver]

any before and after logs? :\

do you have an upgraded fuel pump?

He has the pump in his sig so I would say yes...

[Boost'dBeta2]

Any chance the guys at PG have a compressor map for their upgrade they performed for you? Did they have to modify the housing at all or did they simply just swap the compressor wheels? I only ask because even with the larger coldside the compressor side may still be choked by too small of a housing which would negate any real gains and still leave you flat on the high rpm ranges. I am not sure of the limits to modifying a K04, but if a larger housing isn't common then the price of a larger one probably wouldn't be justifiable. Are you still running the internal wastegate with the WGA? I would suggest an external, but I can't find any information on any type of setup to allow that yet for the MS3.

[ericrapp]

I have seen an article about the limits on the stock wastegate and it does not have much room for porting. The little K was designed for quick throttle response, not so much for the serious performance application in my understanding. Good point about the compressor map though.

[tru-boost]

Any chance the guys at PG have a compressor map for their upgrade they performed for you? Did they have to modify the housing at all or did they simply just swap the compressor wheels? I only ask because even with the larger coldside the compressor side may still be choked by too small of a housing which would negate any real gains and still leave you flat on the high rpm ranges. I am not sure of the limits to modifying a K04, but if a larger housing isn't common then the price of a larger one probably wouldn't be justifiable. Are you still running the internal wastegate with the WGA? I would suggest an external, but I can't find any information on any type of setup to allow that yet for the MS3.

WG location makes no difference and is not needed until you have a BIG turbo. it will prevent boost from RISING above target from inadequate flow. i am seeing the opposite NO EXTRA boost at all. and yes i have the pump upgrade. i think it very well may be the stock compressor housing is choked

[Boost'dBeta2]

WG location makes no difference and is not needed until you have a BIG turbo. it will prevent boost from RISING above target from inadequate flow. i am seeing the opposite NO EXTRA boost at all. and yes i have the pump upgrade. i think it very well may be the stock compressor housing is choked
I believe that the housing is your issue,plain and simple, but if it were a wastegate issue an external gate offers you the ability to swap out springs and such to keep the valve from opening until exactly when you want it to.
As far as the wastegate I was thinking more along the lines of the adjustability and precision they offer. I noticed a difference in swapping from an internal to an external almost immediately on a small/med. turbo with moderate levels of boost. I have seen some Subaru and Mitsubishi guys swapping to external gates as lows 10-12psi on TD04 15g's and 13t's...those aren't exactly big. An external gate is not really cost effective on low boost setups, but external's are almost always better.

[jville]

so with the upgraded turbo your running 20 psi. Do you have an upgrade tmic or fmic? i tried to do a search to find out myself but man ur a frequent poster so i gave up, but very nice 12.829 1/4 @ 107.9mph. I mean after all is said and done would you suggest this turbo upgrade rather than a bigger one?

[dan7225]

do they port and polish both housings? and what process do they use to do so? maybe extrude honing could help open up the housings a little. (stoned)

[AutoXRacer]

From all the posts I've read in different forums...it doesn't seem like the reworked stocker is worth it. Unless you are just looking for a replacement turbo. I'll wait till mine fails, hopefully not anytime soon. I might go with the GT2871R, since its a little bigger, but not a monster like those GT30 or GT35 series...

[MS3_Kendall]

From all the posts I've read in different forums...it doesn't seem like the reworked stocker is worth it. Unless you are just looking for a replacement turbo. I'll wait till mine fails, hopefully not anytime soon. I might go with the GT2871R, since its a little bigger, but not a monster like those GT30 or GT35 series...

I am waiting to get the reworked K04, but not of choice. My stocker went bad because of the seals and unfortunately I did not have the money for the garret series turbo. I will eventually swap out of the reworked K04.