Cobb AP full Throttle maps!

[dread]

Just wanted to let everyone know that the AP now has fully opened throttle maps available. The tune is even smoother and more powerful than previous cobb tunes. Definately more power up top and in the meat of the powerband. The maps cannot be downloaded on cobb's website yet, but are available on another forum, which unfortunately I can't post a link to. Anyway those who want open throttle are not limited to the CPE flash. Note an open throttle will not take away limits of the stock turbo and camshafts so your hp will not continue to increase until redline with any flash. However there is no longer a sharp drop off like on the stock car. More new maps are coming soon which should make significantly more power than the officially released maps.

[ndedomin]

could you send me a link to the forum where these are posted?

[happy and angry]

Are they developing a map that eliminates the boost limit in first and second?

[dread]

I hit 17.8 psi in second on this map so i am guessing the limit is removed.

[oneofakindms3]

I hit 17.8 psi in second on this map so i am guessing the limit is removed.

wuz up evry1.(dread) u think u can pm me bout those maps?

[MS3 Ventura]

Still no map for the FMIC though...

[aaronc7]

the fmic maps are still being tweaked in general. Christian himself he is unhappy with them in their current state. he said to look for new maps by the end of the week.....i should be getting a beta one any day now

[ericrapp]

This is pretty cool with the Cobb. Are their maps based on flow? I have a larger Top mount and my air movement is pretty good right now. More than stock, noticeably. I am starting to read up on these guys again and I am impressed with the thoroughness of their balanced tuning and track success. They have taken a long time to bring a tune to the street though. Just wondered if they have anything that will work for me? I guess I will have to give them a ring.

[clos561]

Just wanted to let everyone know that the AP now has fully opened throttle maps available. The tune is even smoother and more powerful than previous cobb tunes. Definately more power up top and in the meat of the powerband. The maps cannot be downloaded on cobb's website yet, but are available on another forum, which unfortunately I can't post a link to. Anyway those who want open throttle are not limited to the CPE flash. Note an open throttle will not take away limits of the stock turbo and camshafts so your hp will not continue to increase until redline with any flash. However there is no longer a sharp drop off like on the stock car. More new maps are coming soon which should make significantly more power than the officially released maps.

dot org site?

[dread]

yep dot org.

Currently there are no maps for an upgraded TMIC. However some people are running other maps with the upgraded TMIC without any problems. There may be a map for this configuration in the works though, but it could take a while since COBB has other priorities at the moment.

[nig3]

UUUhhhh.... what the hell is full throttle map??

[dread]

A map that keeps the throttle open until redline. The ms3 with a stock map has the throttle close at 5700 rpms or so.

[LBV]

I'm not sure if the Cobb maps do this, but the CP-E flash opens the throttle to 100%. Anyone that's logged throttle on a dashhawk knows that the tables in the ecu only allow 85% and even then, it hits that for just a short moment and then starts going down.

The CP-E flash holds 100% as long as you're foot is down.

Anyone know if the Cobb maps do this too? Or is it 85% as long as your foot is down??

[shucky]

the Cobb FT maps are 100% wide open also (from what I heard).

[dread]

Yes they are 100% wide open, which is 85 degrees. I think you are getting the two mixed up. Logging devices are recording degrees not percent.

[dkswim]

Yes they are 100% wide open, which is 85 degrees. I think you are getting the two mixed up. Logging devices are recording degrees not percent.

+1 its not percent open its degrees open. and cobb has from the begining been able to do 100% they had/have it close beacuse throtle plate isnt the biggest restriction and so as to promote longer life of the survos they opted to start closing the throtle

[LBV]

I don't recall seeing a DH log where AbsThr is logged and it shows 100 though?? Take a look at the CP-E flash logs posted by dadasracecar and you'll see the 100% (previous max was 85%) ... would like to see the same PID logged with the Cobb. What I've seen is RelTPS only.

Thx

[SharkDiver]

The ecu reads by degrees..I thought I remember Christian saying that.So if it is at 90 that is wide open.

[ztuner]

1st dyno -256 whp, 263 ft lbs tq
Stock Mazda map
Cobb Sri
CS race pipe
Forge BPV

2nd dyno - 239 whp 243 ft lbs tq
Cobb AP - Stage 1+Sri 101msf
Cobb Sri
CS race pipe
Forge BPV

good news - race pipes work all over the rpm range. Makes between 7 - 10 whp and similar torque. Gets beter at higher rpms

bad news - 101msf map performs virtually identical to the old map. TPS shows 72 % on the DH and the AP

good news - the 101 map produced a smaller boost spike 17.5 vs 18.5 and it held boost higher longer. As a result there was a virtually 0 knock count vs the 2 - 3 with the stock tune.
AP tune still makes more power between 5700 and 6500. IMO mostly because it holds more boost and its leaner.

Besides this
AP tune is significantly leaner between 5500 to 6500 rpm
AP tune pulls between 2 - 4 deg in the spoolup area (2500 to 3500 rpm)
AP tune pulls virtually no timing between 3500 to 4500 rpm
Ap tune pulls 2 Deg at 5000, 4 deg at 5500, 6 deg by 6500 rpm

No question the AP tune is smoother in power delivery and produces a wider power band at the expense of peak power.

Dyno sheets are being compiled

Harry

[DAC17]

How come the maps aren't on the other site anymore??

[SharkDiver]

They are still there...

[DAC17]

They are still there...

Sorry; I must be looking in the wrong place. Do you still have the link that you could PM me?

Thanks.

[freeflyfreak]

mazda "no space" speed "no space" forums "dot" org/forum/cobb-access-port/8065-i-got-new-ap-maps-you "dot" html

If it says "dot' put a "."
If "no space" make one word.

Forum scared of losing members WILL lose members.

[tru-boost]

dont look at absolute throttle set the PID to show "TPS" at one point i had mine set to absolute throttle and it showed like 12 at idle obviously that was not in percentage. switch it to TPS and it shows 2% at idle which is normal. and yes the DH clearly shows a % sign next to the number so it is not degrees in that case.

[nig3]

im sure the throttle doesnt open up all the way for a good reason past 5700 rpm, does anyone have proof of any performance gain running it at 100% till redline? or are people just assuming it should make more???

[dkswim]

assumptions get people killed.....

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

im sure the throttle doesnt open up all the way for a good reason past 5700 rpm, does anyone have proof of any performance gain running it at 100% till redline? or are people just assuming it should make more???

I thought it had been pretty clearly established that the factory turbo will end up with a warped driveshaft if it sees the kind of heat generated at rpms over the point where the stock ecu closes the throttle?

[ericrapp]

The compressor map looks as if the little k does not care for much more than the low 6ooo rpms before the heat takes it's toll on effienciency. although alot of folks must have something going on to run more boost and actually get power. I can run it up to redline now with a long pull but, to floor the thing at just under 6 and try to hit a rev limiter, not so much happening.

[dread]

CPE showed 19 hp and 55 ft/lb increase on a fully bolted car by just opening the throttle all the way.

[shucky]

dread you have a DH? I'm just wondering why only 1 person claimed the FT maps are 100% wide open and everyone else who tries them says otherwise? How can this be? Even Ztuner says the throttle is not open? Whats up with these maps?

[aaronc7]

its been confirmed by several people they do indeed hold it open. it only shows 85 degrees but thats the physical limit, or something

[dread]

yep 85 degrees is the most it will open. I do not have a dashhawk but have seen several logs of the throttle open.

[ericrapp]

So, are their maps based on flow or just throttle input please? because there is no reason to open throttle plate unless the ecu can supply fuel and timing accordingly. i do not have the Dash.

[dread]

The ecu can adapt to additional air flow, that has been proved by everyone who has gained power with an intake or exhaust. I am not sure what your question is.

[aaronc7]

Basically it just holds the throttle open. It's not because Cobb/Christian think it's worthwhile, but because that's what the people want. The throttle is pretty damn near open on the regular OTS maps anyways.

[ericrapp]

dread, there is a lot of tech info that shows the throttle plate is not necessarily responding to your foot. Whereas with a carburetor I could mechanically open her up whenever I decided. It seems this throttle opens when the ecu decides. So i wondered what forces the plate open with the map? Does that make any sense? sorry to ask goofy questions. and Aaron, I think you might be right on the reasoning behind this. They probably did this for the old school guys like me, who can barely understand the new ECU controls. Thanks for patience fellas

[dread]

The throttle position is controlled by a table, all that needed to be done was to change the numbers in the table to keep it open.

[fructus]

What I'd like to know is when the 93 octane maps are coming out.

[dkswim]

man i know its not FT related but i had to drive to ATL and back today. so i loaded up the economy map i llredy had 70 miles on the tank but through calculating it after I got 30 MPG, 5 over limit cruise controol when can. first 70 had a few WOT accel and was city driving. thats the best ive seen previous best was 29 when driving all highway

[ericrapp]

The throttle position is controlled by a table, all that needed to be done was to change the numbers in the table to keep it open. Gotcha, so if I use my piggybackcomputer and send an output voltage to the plate it will open as much as i want it to, off my rpm throttle table? I wonder why it took so long to release this?

[ztuner]

its been confirmed by several people they do indeed hold it open. it only shows 85 degrees but thats the physical limit, or something

Aaron, i have been doing a lot of logging recently and observed that the absolute tp can hit 88 deg at times but it appears to mostly settle at 85 - 86 deg. Not sure if this is such a big deal or not. interestingly i noted the throttle drop to 70 % during spoolup - i guess in order to slow down spool and reduce spiking. Sill spikes 2 psi though. If have logs if you are interested.

Harry

[tru-boost]

that is the kind of crap i dont want to hear. when i say i want full throttle, give me full throttle damn it !! so now even when the say they have a full throttle tune it isnt !! i want it wide open....during spool up, in the mid range, and up top. do it right or dont do it at all.

[SwampAss]

someone needs a hug.

[lestat13]

This might be a dumb question but I don't think it has come up. Can you have a full-throttle flash AND a stage 1 or 2 flash, or is the full-throttle incorporate into those flashes?? Dammit, looks like I'm gonna have to get an ap now ;)

[fructus]

It looks like it's incorporated

[dread]

its incorporated and there are new versions of the full throttle maps v102 msf.
A piggyback cannot control the throttle plate for some reason. That is why cpe invested in a flash that can open it up.

[dread]

By the way anyone interested in these flashes should google mazda speed forums .org, since I cannot pm links on this forum.

[ericrapp]

ok, has anyone ever driven a carburated engine? Well if you ask the blade to open up and start dumping fuel, at low rpm it might not produce much power until the cam is on and ignition is full on. The Mazda tune must be adjusting to make better use of low end I would guess and on the top to compensate for the lack of headroom on the little K. But above 5500 or so it seems to me dump all the fuel in and open that plate to 89 degrees and rip it up. So if they use rpms as the table wouldn't this be effective with enough fuel against rpms. Good points I noticed about spooling and spiking boost. Thanks for good thread folks. And dread your point is the argument I am having with my son in law who will tune the car. He still is educating me about theory and such though. He seems to understand all the issues brought up about our car and that is good but I still have more questions yet>

[snuggles1300]

there on cobbs site now

[bnoon]

its been confirmed by several people they do indeed hold it open. it only shows 85 degrees but thats the physical limit, or something

Physical limit? The physical limit is adjustable by a throttle stop on the TB itself, so it must be a throttle position sensor limit??? Or something??? I've got a spare TB if anyone wants to see... It will hit 90 degrees physically, whether or not it does in actual driving I have no idea.

[GettinFasster]

Hey guys i am mew to the world of MAZDA. i am currently in hell in the Middle East, but in Feb 09 ther will be a MS3 in my driveway! So what can I expect out of a MS3?(nana)(gun)

[Bonafide_Spd3]

Which FOB are you at? You in Iraq?

[GettinFasster]

Negative! QATAR! hot as hell! ALLIUDEED

[lestat13]

Hey guys i am mew to the world of MAZDA. i am currently in hell in the Middle East, but in Feb 09 ther will be a MS3 in my driveway! So what can I expect out of a MS3?(nana)(gun)

Enjoyment, but lower than average gas mileage. Decide now whether or not you are going to mod the vehicle. That will make all the difference.

[Bonafide_Spd3]

I've only been there for a week before I got back from my second deployment. That is the only place you been? It was nice being able to drink some beer there because you can't in iraq. The pool was pretty nice too since we didn't have that. That's good your not in the shit, it sucked being with the army and marines building their bases from nothing. By the way I think you'll enjoy your ms3 and I'm sure you'll agree with the price you pay for it. It is a great bang for your buck. I'm still new to it myself and look forward to adding aftermarket parts. I haven't had any problems with it yet too by the way but I haven't did no major upgrades

[GettinFasster]

Well i am only put Cobb stage 2+ and let'r ripp! Yeah this is my first time. but i missed the last two deployments i was on a "profile" for my knee, then the second time i passed some major kidney stones and had 2 ulers on my stomach! Now i am 110% ready to get back home with a lil cash to drop down on MY CAR!!!!!!

HOW BAD IS THE FUEL ECONOMY?????

[dread]

I get 25 mpg mixed with a ok of wot. Best I got was 29 all highway. Really not bad for a car with this much power.

[snuggles1300]

cobb wide open map i m still waiting on a 93 oct fuel map ....could make a nice combo now there wide open

[dread]

93 otane maps are in the works. Hopefully, they will be out in a couple weeks or so.

[snuggles1300]

good lol ....yeah ...um... thanks ...yeah all the places near my house are 87 89 93....any way thanks for the update be nice if cobb said that tho

[dread]

Christian has been working his ass off on new maps, so he doesn't have much time to post. I think they would rather just release updates, rather than update everyone on the updates. If you know what I mean.

[snuggles1300]

i know and i thank u ...just wanted to know ya know ...lol love cobbs work so ..and love there products all upgrades are going to be cobb

[tru-boost]

ok, has anyone ever driven a carburated engine? Well if you ask the blade to open up and start dumping fuel, at low rpm it might not produce much power until the cam is on and ignition is full on. The Mazda tune must be adjusting to make better use of low end I would guess and on the top to compensate for the lack of headroom on the little K. But above 5500 or so it seems to me dump all the fuel in and open that plate to 89 degrees and rip it up. So if they use rpms as the table wouldn't this be effective with enough fuel against rpms. Good points I noticed about spooling and spiking boost. Thanks for good thread folks. And dread your point is the argument I am having with my son in law who will tune the car. He still is educating me about theory and such though. He seems to understand all the issues brought up about our car and that is good but I still have more questions yet>

what the hell is a carbon tooter ?? that ancient technology has nothing to do with this car. just because the throttle goes full open does not mean the car is dumping fule like a carb car would. we have wonder things like mass airflow sensors and wide band oxygen sensors that keep our air/fuel on par.

[snuggles1300]

calf ........yeah thats right .....calf i have a port injected sonoma ...wish i had a cyclone ....(~.~) thats a sad face

[dread]

thats funny tru boost, any news on the new tmic

[ericrapp]

Thanks tru-, I will continue to study the redundant output voltage throttle plate logics on our cars. you kids geez. carbon tooters are from the 1920s.

[LSUtigers]

So is Cobb the best tuning out for the MS3 or is there better?

[dread]

depends on what you are looking to accomplish and when you want to accomplish it. So what are you current and future mods, how much do you know about tuning and what do you want to get out of your ms3?

[LSUtigers]

well i am deployed right now, i will be buying the car when i get home in feb.

As far the car goes i want to get teh most out of bolt ons and plug ins! i aint gunna change out the internals or nothing i just gunna stage 2+ it. I would like to get to 300whp if posible thru this route.

[dread]

As of now you have a better chance of getting 300 whp with the cpe standback but you will have to tune it yourself or pay someone to get it tuned.

Future maps from cobb for stage 2+ with the fmic may also get that much power, but as of now I don't think anyone is getting 300whp with the accessport. Cobb claims 280 whp and 315ft/lbs for stage 2+. Not sure how much power is added with the fmic. My dyno showed 262 whp and 298 ft/lbs of torque with the ap and the ms cai.

However, eventually cobb will release software that allows the enduser to tune their own car. Once this happens the accessport will be the most versatile tuning device. For now you have to settle for off the shelf maps and you won't get the most out of your car. These maps are fine but there will always be more on the table.

[LSUtigers]

sweet! is it true what they say about the MS3 keeping up with STI's

[aaronc7]

Cobb has released fmic maps and i just want to say they really kick ass. My car has never ran this good and i really didnt know what ive been missing. check out their site if you need their fmic map

[dkswim]

im running stage2+ v102msf and i got to say its better

[dread]

sweet! is it true what they say about the MS3 keeping up with STI's

I never raced one, but from a roll I would think its possible.

[TurboDreams]

when i get my AP this week ill run my buddy with a stage2 STI and let ya know

[snuggles1300]

i am also aiming for 300 whp .....when cobb release some of there other products i think it will be possbile in like 5 months or so maybe dont know ...it would be nice

[snuggles1300]

sorry for off topic ....above post

[fructus]

I don't see the full throttle maps on the Cobb site. I saw added FMIC maps but not full throttle maps. Are they there?

[MikeHTally]

Man, how can anyone read a map at full throttle? (wink)

[dread]

I don't see the full throttle maps on the Cobb site. I saw added FMIC maps but not full throttle maps. Are they there?

full throttle maps are not on cobb's site. Read the rest of this thread for clarification.

[snuggles1300]

they are the v102 maps right

[dread]

v102 on cobb's site is not full throttle to redline, but they are close. I think the throttle drops off at 6000 rpm. See my dyno the throttle pretty much follow the hp curve after 6k rpm.

[dread]

By the way anyone interested in these flashes should google mazda speed forums .org, since I cannot pm links on this forum.

I will quote myself here

[snuggles1300]

lol i like the quote my self.... laugh in head ....i been there they have some nice pages about it

[snuggles1300]

thanks for setting me strieght also ...

[fructus]

I've seen the maps on the other site, but I was under impression that they were supposed to be posted on the Cobb site as well by the end of last week.

[dread]

The maps on cobb's site are different than the maps on the mazda speed forum (msf) maps are use at your own risk and are FT until redline. Cobb maps throttle begins to close at 6k rpm. There are also other small differences with the timing and wastegate. I have run both and the msf maps feel a bit more powerful than the maps on cobbs site.

[snuggles1300]

did any one post a dyno dif between the two yet ?? if any

[dread]

nope

[snuggles1300]

short and sweet answer lol....

[aaronc7]

ok queers. Here is my latest 1/4 mile runs with the new FMIC maps for the AP. I best trap speed before was 105.7 with STage 2 + SF v101F map (only map i could make run somewhat decently)

Might have to scroll sideways sorry, time and trap sped are in bottom right corner

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/aaronc7/Mazdaspeed%203/Datalogs/1342at1087.png

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u65/aaronc7/Mazdaspeed%203/Datalogs/1344at1100.png

[jp4130]

(thumb)
sweet! is it true what they say about the MS3 keeping up with STI's

Yes, last week from a roll I pulled on a stock STi. ;) (thumb)

[scatt nasty]

wow thats impressive.. I am in no way doubting you, I myself have a dashhawk but have never used the 1/4 feature, how accurate is it ? I would like to know so I can use this myself sometime when I find enough road.

[aaronc7]

I'm not claiming I would trap 110 on a real track. Just using it for comparison purposes.

On my previous map I put down 273/289 on a dyno and trapped 105.7 or whatever on the 1/4 mile feature.

With this new map I am trapping 109-110 in the 1/4 mile feature, so basically I'm just using it to show yes....it is making more powa now!

With I/TBE (no FMIC) and stock map I trapped 103-104 in the 1/4 mile feature. Take it however you want, just posting my results!

[scatt nasty]

Did a few runs tonight (5)... mostly mid 14's with a best of 14.2 .. the real kicker is I was trapping 103/104's consistently and my "best" 60 was 2.6 =( I need to work on that lol. This thing is a bitch to launch.

[aaronc7]

lol look at my 60' times above! But I am giong for consistency more than great times. Who knows just how accurate the DH 1/4 mile is in itself, but it is consistent which is why I use it for before/after comparisons.

[xandrake]

Aaron uses Digsby. :)

[scatt nasty]

ahh I see.. I've got Corksport TBE and the RPMC inlet on the way to me, hopefully the dashhawk shows me some nice gains =)

[aaronc7]

Aaron uses Digsby. :)

I love it, lol. Digsby FTW!

[thetechguy99]

(thumb)

Yes, last week from a roll I pulled on a stock STi. ;) (thumb)

Keeping up? hah!

I own an '05 STi and it's protuned with full Cobb TBE, APS 65mm, and GMBCS.

My buddy has an 08 MS3 with mzspeed intake, txs bov, txs tbe and no engine management. From 60-70mph roll, I just watch as he walks away from me.

I can't wait to see what his car can do with a protune.

[ericrapp]

That is very mature to speak out about this 99. These mazdas are coming along pretty good it seems. Thanks for all the data and I appreciate your posting it up for us Aaron, sure sounds like it is working out well

[LBV]

Love that boost curve!

[08MicaSpeed3]

I have done a lot of reading on this forum about the Cobb for my 08 Speed3... let me tell you what I am looking to do and maybe you guys can help me figure out the best route.

I am looking to eliminate the boost management in 1st and 2nd gear and maybe fine tune a little bit. This is my daily driver, she is stock and I don't want to go overboard... kinda did that already with our Firebird that is now pretty much track only. I wasn't sure if the Cobb would be a good idea or if you guys might know of something else that would take care of the Boost Management?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Jackie.

[dread]

I hold over 17 psi in second gear with the ap, so I am guessing the boost limit has been removed in 2nd. I only hit 12 psi in first though. A boost controller and map clamp might do the trick or cpe's standback

[08MicaSpeed3]

I hold over 17 psi in second gear with the ap, so I am guessing the boost limit has been removed in 2nd. I only hit 12 psi in first though. A boost controller and map clamp might do the trick or cpe's standback

I don't quite understand the last part... bare with me I am a bit "turbo-dumb" I have really only worked with N/A V8 cars and have a little nitrous knowledge. This is my first turbo car.

[fathom]

I don't quite understand the last part... bare with me I am a bit "turbo-dumb" I have really only worked with N/A V8 cars and have a little nitrous knowledge. This is my first turbo car.

*This is my understanding, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

With a map clamp you will be able to limit how much voltage the map sensor sees. So you "trick" your ecu into thinking your running say 16 psi when you have your boost controller set to say 20 psi. The map clamp will allow your car to run off the 16 psi fuel/timing tables, but for the 20 psi you dialed in.

[08MicaSpeed3]

*This is my understanding, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

With a map clamp you will be able to limit how much voltage the map sensor sees. So you "trick" your ecu into thinking your running say 16 psi when you have your boost controller set to say 20 psi. The map clamp will allow your car to run off the 16 psi fuel/timing tables, but for the 20 psi you dialed in.

Ok so I take it the Cobb AP is not a Map Clamp/Boost Controller? Does anybody have a suggestions on a good boost controller and Map Clamp so I can start doing some comparisons? If I was to do that with the lower boost fooled at the map would that not make me run lean?

I really appreciate the help.

[dread]

yes map clamps can make you run lean and prevent your ecu from implementing safety measures like boost cut that prevent your engine from blowing. In my opinion the ap is far superior because it reprograms the ecu instead of tricking it. My point was if all you care about is full boost in 1st and second there are other methods to get it. I don't see why you would want full boost in 1st though it is useless unless you are running slicks. Cobb may release maps without boost limits in first in the future but I'm not sure about that.

[08MicaSpeed3]

yes map clamps can make you run lean and prevent your ecu from implementing safety measures like boost cut that prevent your engine from blowing. In my opinion the ap is far superior because it reprograms the ecu instead of tricking it. My point was if all you care about is full boost in 1st and second there are other methods to get it. I don't see why you would want full boost in 1st though it is useless unless you are running slicks. Cobb may release maps without boost limits in first in the future but I'm not sure about that.

Oh ok... I really don't think I want full boost right now but more boost then what the stock management allows with out risking a bad lean condition. I'm not upset with your suggestion I really don't understand the ECU tuning side and all of my options. The more some of the items are explained the more I understand and can ask better questions. I can see where I wouldn't want to remove all of the boost control from 1st because it could be pretty spin happy. Like I said before I am really not educated about this and I am hoping to learn from what ever you have to offer.

[fathom]

Oh ok... I really don't think I want full boost right now but more boost then what the stock management allows with out risking a bad lean condition. I'm not upset with your suggestion I really don't understand the ECU tuning side and all of my options. The more some of the items are explained the more I understand and can ask better questions. I can see where I wouldn't want to remove all of the boost control from 1st because it could be pretty spin happy. Like I said before I am really not educated about this and I am hoping to learn from what ever you have to offer.

In my opinion, if you are looking for a tuning option then the Cobb AP is the way to go. I say this because soon tuners will have access to Cobb's pro tuning software. Meaning you will be able to go to your local tuner and get Pro-tuned, which is a specific calibration for your car. Cobb's OTS maps (maps currently available) have to be conservative in terms of tuning to suit every car.

[FMOS Racing]

Actually if you're spinning, you won't see full boost because you can't load the engine and spool the turbo properly. I'd expect it would be very hard (and have fairly limited usefulness) to see full boost in first in these cars under almost any conditions.

[ericrapp]

In regard to boost and traction. my little experience at the track first occurred in the after a month of ownership and the car only had the dealer installed MSCAI. The car was either in boost and spinning or out of it and not, based on my throttle input. Just in my opinion, there is plenty of pressure in first and second gear with the stock tires and suspension. Traction upgrades will allow more maximum lbs per gear to get the power to ground. 08, you do well to use caution with boost without control over fuel. many good points here I think.