fap fap fap fap

[SwampAss]

http://www.cp-e.com/2117.html



Diesel engines use fuel delivery to change engine speed. In other words, diesel engines have no throttle plate, and instead use the amount of diesel fuel that’s being injected in order to regulate engine output. Gasoline engines, like the one in the MazdaSPEED vehicles use an air throttle to adjust engine output. So if engine output is regulated by the throttle, then you would surely want full control over it, right?

Mazda released the MazdaSPEED vehicles with their implementation of “Fly by wire.” This electronic throttle technology was intended to improve throttle precision, reduce emissions, and can also be easily integrated into advanced electronic stability control systems. Great right? Well, the auto manufacturer’s dirty little secret is the fact that an electronic throttle can also be used as a power governor. Since the driver is no longer mechanically linked to the throttle plate, the computer can put the throttle position wherever it decides. In other words, even if you have your foot to the floor and you think the engine is giving all its got, the computer never really opens the throttle plate to 100%. No kidding. Take a look at the throttle position graph to the right. The blue line is the stock throttle mapping on a SPEED3, and the red line indicates the throttle position after the flash.

We call our flash FullControl™ because it does exactly what the name implies: It gives you, the driver, the customer, the enthusiast, full control over engine output. Our FullControl™ flash optimizes the throttle mapping so that normal cruising is unaffected, but when you floor it, the throttle plate travels to a true 90°. That way you can reap all the benefits of an electronic throttle, but now without any of the drawbacks. Normal throttle operation is as smooth as it was from the factory, but when you smash the go-pedal the mid-range torque curve swells considerably, and top-end breathing is also greatly improved. So take the gag off that otherwise potent turbo MZR, and enjoy it the way it should have come from the factory!

Please READ and PRINT this document. It includes important warnings, removal and installation instructions, as well as shipping instructions.

Please fill out all of the information below for your order to be processed. Click here for an explanation of the ECU label information needed below.


http://www.cp-e.com/imgs/SP3FCFlashHP.jpg

http://www.cp-e.com/imgs/SP3FCFlashTQ.jpg

http://www.cp-e.com/imgs/SP3FCFlashafr.jpg

http://www.cp-e.com/imgs/SP3fcfthrottle_big.jpg

[FrequentFlyer]

Looks promising. Intro price is right. The downside is you have to take the ECU out and send it in. That's a no-go for me since it's my daily driver and can't go without a car for 2 days. They don't give details on what is done to the car other than the reflash. Obviously at 272whp before reflash, this is not a stock MS3. Gains are great at 4300rpm (over 50whp).

[lestat13]

Wow, great work! I gotta get this flash!! Does seem high at $400 for a flash, but we gotta think about the time that went into developing this.

Swampass, any drawbacks to the flash?

[SwampAss]

Got me. I just saw it listed.

I live close enough to have it done if they can do it that way.

[Gasological]

Holy hell. 50 ft/lbs of torque? That's a 20% increase across most of your drivable RPM range.

Jesus.

[Kain]

Being local FTW.

[gtlaw]

F the dyno numbers just think of the difference it will make in first, and second taking corners

[Zimmer]

http://www.cp-e.com/2117.html

The blue line is the stock throttle mapping on a SPEED3, and the red line indicates the throttle position after the flash.


... looks good but is it backwards... red line vs blue..? (dunno)

[MSLou]

hmm could be intresting

[sleeping_blue]

ok this is for a stock ms3 correct how many of us have a stock ms3 i mean really

[JDM Sam]

Sucks the powerband still tapers off up past 5500 even with the throttle plate wide open.

[fragchild]

Sucks the powerband still tapers off up past 5500 even with the throttle plate wide open.

+1
They've just proved what Cobb has said all along, that opening the throttle 100% wont give you power to redline (on a stock turbo).

I would like to know whats parts are on that car though as it certainly isn't stock.

[CWPspeed3]

I was just at the dealer recently and asked why the engine basically shuts down after 5500rpm and the mechanic couldn't tell me why other than "thats how the car is programed" so I'm wondering if mazda did it for fuel economy or some other dumb reason.

[Capt Crunch]

+1
They've just proved what Cobb has said all along, that opening the throttle 100% wont give you power to redline (on a stock turbo).

I would like to know whats parts are on that car though as it certainly isn't stock.

+2

The only gains are in the mid-range where the throttle plate isn't the issue. Looks like a nice tune and that's about it.

[lestat13]

I was just at the dealer recently and asked why the engine basically shuts down after 5500rpm and the mechanic couldn't tell me why other than "thats how the car is programed" so I'm wondering if mazda did it for fuel economy or some other dumb reason.

I'm pretty sure at 5500rpms no one is thinking about fuel economy! I think someone said something about the engine not being able to handle that much power that high in the rpm range.....

I'm getting sick of this, too much boost down low will blow your motor, too much power up high will blow your motor, more than 300whp will blow your motor. Do I just need to upgrade pistons and rods now before I go any further?!?!

[FrequentFlyer]

I was just at the dealer recently and asked why the engine basically shuts down after 5500rpm and the mechanic couldn't tell me why other than "thats how the car is programed" so I'm wondering if mazda did it for fuel economy or some other dumb reason.

That may have been too technical of a question for the tech at your dealer. These are the places still putting 5W-20 in this car.

Has anyone thought maybe it's the cams? These cams may not have enough lift at high RPM to support the flow. This motor has variable valve timing, but does it use the same concept as Honda's VTEC with two sets of cam lobes? I had thought it just adjusted cam timing.

[SwampAss]

maybe the turbo can't move the air required to sustain high RPM power.

[controlo]

ghey. :(

[Vord]

That may have been too technical of a question for the tech at your dealer. These are the places still putting 5W-20 in this car.

Has anyone thought maybe it's the cams? These cams may not have enough lift at high RPM to support the flow. This motor has variable valve timing, but does it use the same concept as Honda's VTEC with two sets of cam lobes? I had thought it just adjusted cam timing.



Out VVT is similar to the one Toyota uses. We do not use VTEC, there is no second cams.

I doubt its the cams, you have to look at the dynos from people who have another turbo.


Now as for a bit of proof. Here is Whoosh (a MS6 owner from another forum who is running a bigger turbo and rods + pistons & a few bolt ons. He just got the car tunned and is hitting near 400whp, hes waiting to get his car dynoed again. the 400 is an estimate based on how much power he is running right now.)

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk74/ymgamal/RUN3WHOOSH.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk74/ymgamal/RUN2WHOOSH.jpg


Notice how hes making power up to 6k? I am not sure if these are the best dynos to show, because it seems that he hes stopping at 6kish rather than trying to go to redline, but its starting to improve

[oaklandopen]

maybe the turbo can't move the air required to sustain high RPM power.

that's right, turbos dog out at higher rpms anyway. twin turbo setups do better with full rpm range power.

it really does stink how this engine doesn't have all the aftermarket companies jumping at it with all sorts of internals, etc. you open up one import mag and you'll see upgrades for anything (rear view mirrors to piston rings), as long as it's a honda, vw, nissan, blah blah blah.

i'd keep going but i dont' want to rant too much

[happy and angry]

I think I'd get this done to my car, but I'm a little worried about having to send out the ECU. They do a flash, I get my ECU back, and then maybe 3 months later another software package comes out and my dealership reflashes my system without asking me about it, wasting my money. Or would this not happen?

Now they just need to remove the boost limiting in first and second gear so I can get to roasting tires and running mid to low 13's stock like this car should.

[freeflyfreak]

I was just at the dealer recently and asked why the engine basically shuts down after 5500rpm and the mechanic couldn't tell me why other than "thats how the car is programed" so I'm wondering if mazda did it for fuel economy or some other dumb reason.

Below is a direct repost from MSF. I think this is why Mazda made the engine "shut down" after 5500, to protect the turbo:




K04 TURBO REPORT FROM NEUSPEED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The information below, gleaned from a B5 site, offers some insight into the limitations of the K04 turbo that I have not seen mentioned before. High temperatures and softening of the shaft could also be the root cause of some of the reported turbo problems and also may explain why Mazda intentionally pulls the plug on boost at 6k rpms. Is anyone measuring exhaust temp in the turbine housing?
-enganear

K04 TURBOCHARGER REPORT FROM NEUSPEED

For those readers unfamiliar with the background of the 3K-Warner K04 turbocharger here is a brief summary of past events. The K04 turbocharger (manufactured by 3K-Warner GmbH) is sold as an upgrade for 1.8T engines by several international tuners, including NEUSPEED. In the United States, NEUSPEED has sold the largest number of K04 turbochargers in the aftermarket for use on 1.8T engines. Over the past two years, we documented 8 K04 turbocharger failures and reported this information to 3K-Warner�s United States importer, Dura Products Corporation in Bradley, Illinois.
After validating the statistical significance of the failure rate, NEUSPEED suspended its sales of the K04 turbocharger, and with the assistance of Dura Products Corporation performed extensive testing to determine the cause of the failures. Based on our joint findings, we prepared this report to brief current K04 users, and potential users, on the proper installation, operation and maintenance of the K04 turbocharger to maximize its service life.

1. INSTALLATION
Each re-seller of the K04 turbocharger is responsible for providing installation instructions. The following information is intended to supplement those instructions, not replace them.

A. Always drain engine oil and remove old oil filter prior to removing existing turbo from the vehicle.

B. Always inspect factory oil feed line to determine if line has become coked with oil residue. If the oil feed line has dark, hardened coating inside of it, discard the line and replace it with a new Audi or Volkswagen genuine part.

C. After the K04 turbocharger has been bolted onto the manifold and oil feed and return lines have been reconnected, install new oil filter and use synthetic engine oil only. Mobil 1 and Redline are the recommended brands. 20/50w is recommend for summer. 10/40w is recommended for winter.

D. Before restarting the engine for the first time, the engine, oil lines and turbocharger must be dry-primed with oil. To perform this procedure, first locate the Engine Control Computer (ECU) and disconnect the multipin connector from the ECU. Next turn the ignition to the RUN position and crank the starter motor in several 4-5 second bursts. (Your oil pump will circulate oil, however no spark or fuel will be introduced into the cylinder.) Next turn the ignition key to the OFF/LOCK position and reconnect the multipin connector to the ECU. Next turn the ignition key to the ON/POWER position, but do not start the vehicle. Leave this key in this position for at least 30 seconds. (This sends power to the ECU, but the engine will not be running.) Finally turn the key to the START position to start the engine. Allow the vehicle to idle for several minutes, then shut down the engine and check the oil level. Top off if necessary.

2. OPERATION

The K04 is designed to provide reliable, long-term service as long as its performance parameters are not exceeded. Driving the car at engine speeds above 5800 rpm with 15spi or greater boost significantly increases the exhaust temperature measured inside the K04 turbine housing. This signals that the maximum efficiency of the turbocharger has been exceeded, and that the energy produced by the turbine housing is now converting to heat rather than accelerating the compressor wheel faster. Unless a careful and extended idle-down is performed at the end of every hard driving session, the rapid heat build-up from high boost/high rpm operation causes the turbine shaft to soften, and allows the inconel turbine head to droop. The result is an imbalance that ultimately leads to a shaft failure.



A. NEUSPEED has revised its ECU programming to reduce K04 boost pressure above 5800rpm. Current K04 users are encouraged to contact their ECU software supplier and request this change. Existing NEUSPEED K04 customers will be offered this software upgrade at no charge. Peak horsepower, measured at 5700 rpm, is unaffected by this change. The reduction in high-rpm boost pressure lowers the peak turbine exhaust temperature to approximately 875�C. As long as peak turbine exhaust temperatures do not exceed 875�C, the K04 turbocharger should continue to operate reliably.



B. We encourage K04 users to install an exhaust gas temperature probe directly in the turbocharger housing to monitor peak temperature during operation. Do not mount the probe in the exhaust manifold. Do not mount the probe in the exhaust downpipe. The measurements obtained in these two locations cannot be compared to the 875�C critical temperature.



We recommend using the HKS EGT gauge and thermocouple, it reads from 500�C-1200�C. It is easily purchased from any HKS distributor and incorporates a Peak Hold Warning feature. To install the HKS thermocouple, you will need to remove your turbocharger and drill a 5/16� hole into the turbine side housing. Use a 1/8� pipe tap and cutting oil to tap threads into the hole. (We used Sears Craftman tap #9-54531) Thoroughly clean the housing and hole of all cutting debris, coat the thermocouple threads with anti-seize compound, and install the thermocouple.



C. K04 users should always bring their vehicle to a complete stop and allow the engine to idle prior to shutting down the engine. Recommended idle times vary from 1 minute after mild driving, to 5 minutes after aggressive driving. The idle-down procedure circulates fresh oil and coolant through the turbocharger, allowing it to cool gradually, prior to shut-down.



D. NEUSPEED also now offers a 5 bar fuel pressure regulator to be used in conjunction with the factory 235 CC fuel per minute injectors. The 5 bar regulator does not materially affect the turbine housing temperature. However, our testing showed that it does provides a more consistant Air/Fuel ratio during high rpm operation.

3. MAINTENANCE

A. Engine oil and filter should be replaced every 3000 miles. Do not change engine oil without installing a new oil filter. Check your engine oil level frequently. The turbocharger shaft spins over 10 times faster than your engine�s crankshaft, so an adequate oil supply is critical.

B. Periodically inspect the turbocharger to determine if the wastegate rod and hardware has been bent or damaged. The K04 wastegate rod comes from the 3K- Warner factory with a locking clip over the adjustment nuts. DO NOT attempt to recalibrate the wastegate by moving the adjustment nuts. Any tampering with the wastegate can dramatically alter the boost characteric of the turbocharger and lead to serious engine damage.
C. In the event that any air intake hoses are removed or disconnected during service, thoroughly inspect every hose and remove any foreign objects or debris that may have fallen or collect inside the hose(s). Any loose objects
inside the air intake tract may be sucked into the turbocharger upon start up, seriously damaging the compressor blades.

[CWPspeed3]

wow thanks for the info

[Vord]

excellent info. I think now we know that a turbo upgrade is a requirement for full use of the engine.

[SwampAss]

There are several different K04 turbos out there. Some are better than others.

[MSLou]

so i still feel like im missing a lot of information. can i run this flash with other mods? can they adjust the flash according to the mods i have? was that dyno posted earlier stock?

[FrequentFlyer]

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk74/ymgamal/RUN2WHOOSH.jpg


Notice how hes making power up to 6k? I am not sure if these are the best dynos to show, because it seems that he hes stopping at 6kish rather than trying to go to redline, but its starting to improve

Wow, he runs a little lean there, doesn't he? Looks like a nice normally aspirated A/F ratio, but a little lean for FI.

[Vord]

could be. like I said this was a dyno before tune. I am sure there are a few more flying around, there is atleast 5-6 cars that are running larger turbos.

Personally I want to keep the same PSI, I just want a larger turbo so that it will flatten our ugly torque curve. Better yet, maybe a twin turbo setup!!! lol

[3.slow]

So whats mods are on this car in the first place?

[slo4now]

maybe the turbo can't move the air required to sustain high RPM power.






That is exactly what's going on, turby to small to push air up top.

[Gasological]

Or fuel, weren't people speculating that fuel delivery was a primary bottleneck on the MS3?

[slo4now]

Its not fuel people are making more power up top with same stock fuel,
just bigger turbo. It basically runs out of its efficiency.

[happy and angry]

It obviously is fuel to some degree, as this flash does nothing but allow you to fully control the throttle plate so that when you want WOT you actually get it. And there seem to be significant power gains and a slight broadening of the torque curve as a result.

[Gmac03]

K04 turbo's suck, to bad they didn't throw a garret in there.

Gmac

[dkswim]

interesting...

[controlo]

Its not fuel people are making more power up top with same stock fuel,
just bigger turbo. It basically runs out of its efficiency.

that's true.

there are people making power to redline with stock turbo also though... (laloosh)

i think, anyway.

[Vord]

that's true.

there are people making power to redline with stock turbo also though... (laloosh)

i think, anyway.



You are going to need to find some evidence on it before anyone (atleast alot of people and me) will believe that.

[ericrapp]

Thanks FFF, that certainly plays into the Mazda tune. And though the compressor map for our unit agrees with this I believe a quick burst to 6800 with fuel will be ok, but a sustained 6000rpm plus I will avoid. After a number of mods that increase flow and an upgraded pump the car certainly does not run out of breath under hard acceleration at 6100 as it used to. Still working on it though. A Turbo upgrade is just a matter of time, with planning I suppose. it is nice that Mazda left something for us to gain with tuning etc.

[knowledge007]

that sucks... 400 for a flash and then another 400 for the PnP ...wtf... Damn this is getting expensive..

[controlo]

You are going to need to find some evidence on it before anyone (atleast alot of people and me) will believe that.

this is the best 'evidence' i have: http://youtube.com/watch?v=kHJ_XkX-Z0o

[happy and angry]

That doesn't prove he's making power past 5500 rpm at all. That is worse than no evidence. That is dumb evidence.

[JDM Sam]

could be. like I said this was a dyno before tune. I am sure there are a few more flying around, there is atleast 5-6 cars that are running larger turbos.

Personally I want to keep the same PSI, I just want a larger turbo so that it will flatten our ugly torque curve. Better yet, maybe a twin turbo setup!!! lol

A properly sized single is better than a twin. The 2.3L likes a bigger turbo than your stock..

If you upgrade the turbo, having the throttle plate open 100% should show more gains than it has on the stock turbo.

[Vord]

A properly sized single is better than a twin. The 2.3L likes a bigger turbo than your stock..

If you upgrade the turbo, having the throttle plate open 100% should show more gains than it has on the stock turbo.


I don't know anything about twin turbos, it was simply a statement, but I understand what you are saying.

Generally, I think everyone can agree that our turbos are a pretty big "weak" point when it comes to getting past that 350 hp and to using our engine to its fullest at redline.

[Zimmer]

does Mazda service inspect the following maintenance steps when it goes into the shop... ?? I know they replenish / top off all lubricants etc but I'd like to assume.... but if one doesn't ask then that would suck...

THanks nice info



3. MAINTENANCE

A. Engine oil and filter should be replaced every 3000 miles. Do not change engine oil without installing a new oil filter. Check your engine oil level frequently. The turbocharger shaft spins over 10 times faster than your engine�s crankshaft, so an adequate oil supply is critical.

B. Periodically inspect the turbocharger to determine if the wastegate rod and hardware has been bent or damaged. The K04 wastegate rod comes from the 3K- Warner factory with a locking clip over the adjustment nuts. DO NOT attempt to recalibrate the wastegate by moving the adjustment nuts. Any tampering with the wastegate can dramatically alter the boost characteric of the turbocharger and lead to serious engine damage.
C. In the event that any air intake hoses are removed or disconnected during service, thoroughly inspect every hose and remove any foreign objects or debris that may have fallen or collect inside the hose(s). Any loose objects
inside the air intake tract may be sucked into the turbocharger upon start up, seriously damaging the compressor blades.[/I]

[CoolWhip]

Being local FTW.

Mee too (yippy)

[freeflyfreak]

Below is a direct repost from mazda speed forums dot org
The original poster was enganear.
I think this answers why Mazda made the engine "shut down" after 5500, to protect the turbo:




K04 TURBO REPORT FROM NEUSPEED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The information below, gleaned from a B5 site, offers some insight into the limitations of the K04 turbo that I have not seen mentioned before. High temperatures and softening of the shaft could also be the root cause of some of the reported turbo problems and also may explain why Mazda intentionally pulls the plug on boost at 6k rpms. Is anyone measuring exhaust temp in the turbine housing?
-enganear

K04 TURBOCHARGER REPORT FROM NEUSPEED

For those readers unfamiliar with the background of the 3K-Warner K04 turbocharger here is a brief summary of past events. The K04 turbocharger (manufactured by 3K-Warner GmbH) is sold as an upgrade for 1.8T engines by several international tuners, including NEUSPEED. In the United States, NEUSPEED has sold the largest number of K04 turbochargers in the aftermarket for use on 1.8T engines. Over the past two years, we documented 8 K04 turbocharger failures and reported this information to 3K-Warner�s United States importer, Dura Products Corporation in Bradley, Illinois.
After validating the statistical significance of the failure rate, NEUSPEED suspended its sales of the K04 turbocharger, and with the assistance of Dura Products Corporation performed extensive testing to determine the cause of the failures. Based on our joint findings, we prepared this report to brief current K04 users, and potential users, on the proper installation, operation and maintenance of the K04 turbocharger to maximize its service life.

1. INSTALLATION
Each re-seller of the K04 turbocharger is responsible for providing installation instructions. The following information is intended to supplement those instructions, not replace them.

A. Always drain engine oil and remove old oil filter prior to removing existing turbo from the vehicle.

B. Always inspect factory oil feed line to determine if line has become coked with oil residue. If the oil feed line has dark, hardened coating inside of it, discard the line and replace it with a new Audi or Volkswagen genuine part.

C. After the K04 turbocharger has been bolted onto the manifold and oil feed and return lines have been reconnected, install new oil filter and use synthetic engine oil only. Mobil 1 and Redline are the recommended brands. 20/50w is recommend for summer. 10/40w is recommended for winter.

D. Before restarting the engine for the first time, the engine, oil lines and turbocharger must be dry-primed with oil. To perform this procedure, first locate the Engine Control Computer (ECU) and disconnect the multipin connector from the ECU. Next turn the ignition to the RUN position and crank the starter motor in several 4-5 second bursts. (Your oil pump will circulate oil, however no spark or fuel will be introduced into the cylinder.) Next turn the ignition key to the OFF/LOCK position and reconnect the multipin connector to the ECU. Next turn the ignition key to the ON/POWER position, but do not start the vehicle. Leave this key in this position for at least 30 seconds. (This sends power to the ECU, but the engine will not be running.) Finally turn the key to the START position to start the engine. Allow the vehicle to idle for several minutes, then shut down the engine and check the oil level. Top off if necessary.

2. OPERATION

The K04 is designed to provide reliable, long-term service as long as its performance parameters are not exceeded. Driving the car at engine speeds above 5800 rpm with 15spi or greater boost significantly increases the exhaust temperature measured inside the K04 turbine housing. This signals that the maximum efficiency of the turbocharger has been exceeded, and that the energy produced by the turbine housing is now converting to heat rather than accelerating the compressor wheel faster. Unless a careful and extended idle-down is performed at the end of every hard driving session, the rapid heat build-up from high boost/high rpm operation causes the turbine shaft to soften, and allows the inconel turbine head to droop. The result is an imbalance that ultimately leads to a shaft failure.



A. NEUSPEED has revised its ECU programming to reduce K04 boost pressure above 5800rpm. Current K04 users are encouraged to contact their ECU software supplier and request this change. Existing NEUSPEED K04 customers will be offered this software upgrade at no charge. Peak horsepower, measured at 5700 rpm, is unaffected by this change. The reduction in high-rpm boost pressure lowers the peak turbine exhaust temperature to approximately 875�C. As long as peak turbine exhaust temperatures do not exceed 875�C, the K04 turbocharger should continue to operate reliably.



B. We encourage K04 users to install an exhaust gas temperature probe directly in the turbocharger housing to monitor peak temperature during operation. Do not mount the probe in the exhaust manifold. Do not mount the probe in the exhaust downpipe. The measurements obtained in these two locations cannot be compared to the 875�C critical temperature.



We recommend using the HKS EGT gauge and thermocouple, it reads from 500�C-1200�C. It is easily purchased from any HKS distributor and incorporates a Peak Hold Warning feature. To install the HKS thermocouple, you will need to remove your turbocharger and drill a 5/16� hole into the turbine side housing. Use a 1/8� pipe tap and cutting oil to tap threads into the hole. (We used Sears Craftman tap #9-54531) Thoroughly clean the housing and hole of all cutting debris, coat the thermocouple threads with anti-seize compound, and install the thermocouple.



C. K04 users should always bring their vehicle to a complete stop and allow the engine to idle prior to shutting down the engine. Recommended idle times vary from 1 minute after mild driving, to 5 minutes after aggressive driving. The idle-down procedure circulates fresh oil and coolant through the turbocharger, allowing it to cool gradually, prior to shut-down.



D. NEUSPEED also now offers a 5 bar fuel pressure regulator to be used in conjunction with the factory 235 CC fuel per minute injectors. The 5 bar regulator does not materially affect the turbine housing temperature. However, our testing showed that it does provides a more consistant Air/Fuel ratio during high rpm operation.

3. MAINTENANCE

A. Engine oil and filter should be replaced every 3000 miles. Do not change engine oil without installing a new oil filter. Check your engine oil level frequently. The turbocharger shaft spins over 10 times faster than your engine�s crankshaft, so an adequate oil supply is critical.

B. Periodically inspect the turbocharger to determine if the wastegate rod and hardware has been bent or damaged. The K04 wastegate rod comes from the 3K- Warner factory with a locking clip over the adjustment nuts. DO NOT attempt to recalibrate the wastegate by moving the adjustment nuts. Any tampering with the wastegate can dramatically alter the boost characteric of the turbocharger and lead to serious engine damage.
C. In the event that any air intake hoses are removed or disconnected during service, thoroughly inspect every hose and remove any foreign objects or debris that may have fallen or collect inside the hose(s). Any loose objects
inside the air intake tract may be sucked into the turbocharger upon start up, seriously damaging the compressor blades.

[controlo]

That doesn't prove he's making power past 5500 rpm at all. That is worse than no evidence. That is dumb evidence.

yeah, i know it isn't proof. thanks for clarifying that. maybe if you look back at my previous post, you'll see that i never called it 'proof'.

if we follow your logic, it can't be proven. what would you consider proof then? graphs? graphs can be manufactured. or a picture of him on a dyno that cuts to a video of a manufactured dyno graph? yeah.

the only reason why i even brought it up is because in the video, laloosh runs a 12.9 and he revs it to redline every time. he's running some of the best times in this whole community. it doesn't make sense that he'd rev it up and lose power.

take it for what you will. i was just trying to show people what they may not have seen before. it seems like he's making power to redline or damn close to it.

'critical thinking' FTW!

[controlo]

great info man! do you happen to know what the new programming lowers the boost to? (drive)

[happy and angry]

yeah, i know it isn't proof. thanks for clarifying that. maybe if you look back at my previous post, you'll see that i never called it 'proof'.

if we follow your logic, it can't be proven. what would you consider proof then? graphs? graphs can be manufactured. or a picture of him on a dyno that cuts to a video of a manufactured dyno graph? yeah.I'd settle for a dyno graph without a serious power drop off at 5500 RPM. There is an enormous difference between a dyno sheet and a YouTube video of a speedometer.

the only reason why i even brought it up is because in the video, laloosh runs a 12.9 and he revs it to redline every time. he's running some of the best times in this whole community. it doesn't make sense that he'd rev it up and lose power.It doesn't make sense? Really? He's still making more power up past 5500 rpm than most of us are, and gearing is still a big advantage to be taken advantage of. He might still be making decent power up top compared to a stock MS3 and still have a big drop off in power at 5500 rpm. It's just as reasonable to assume he's riding out each gear to make the most of mechanical advantage because he's got enough extra power to make it worth it.


take it for what you will. i was just trying to show people what they may not have seen before. it seems like he's making power to redline or damn close to it.No, it just seems like the speedometer goes up to about 100 or so and he shifts at or around red line. You can infer nothing else from that video.
'critical thinking' FTW!If you want to call it that...

[controlo]

he hits the rev limiter in every gear.

it doesn't matter if you'd 'settle' for a dyno graph. the fact is, a dyno graph is no more 'proof' than this video is. keep in mind, again, i never claimed it to be 'proof'.

[happy and angry]

I'm having a real difficult time understanding how you can argue that a video of a speedometer and a tach is "as much proof" of turbo inefficiency after 5500 RPM as a dyno sheet with a serious drop off in power at 5500 would be. I'm also struggling to grasp how you can argue "I didn't bring up this video that is entirely unrelated to the topic at hand to prove anything. It's not 'proof' of anything!" So you brought it up for no reason at all and should shut up about it then, I guess?

Do you know the difference between empirical evidence and circumstantial evidence? Or are you going to cop out with the "yea but someone could fake a graph!!1!!!11!!" ridiculousness again? Stick with that logic, and this entire thread could be based on unsourced fabrications. Christ, how do we even know CP-E's reflash provides any benefits! Those dyno sheets are probably fabricated, am I right? How do we know anything on this entire message board isn't just a big ol' lie! Screw charts, computer analysis and numbers, they are all misleading!!

Critical thinking my ass, buddy.

[Vord]

yeah, i know it isn't proof. thanks for clarifying that. maybe if you look back at my previous post, you'll see that i never called it 'proof'.

if we follow your logic, it can't be proven. what would you consider proof then? graphs? graphs can be manufactured. or a picture of him on a dyno that cuts to a video of a manufactured dyno graph? yeah.

the only reason why i even brought it up is because in the video, laloosh runs a 12.9 and he revs it to redline every time. he's running some of the best times in this whole community. it doesn't make sense that he'd rev it up and lose power.

take it for what you will. i was just trying to show people what they may not have seen before. it seems like he's making power to redline or damn close to it.


Just to provide a bit of an explanation of what happy and angry is trying to say:

A few people have started finding that they lose times(to be exact about .1-.2 of a second and 3-4 mph on the trap) on there quarter mile when they shift before redline in 3-4 and/or 4-5. This is believed to be due to the gearing ratio times.

Lastly, if you want to get right down to it based on dynos can be doctored. They we don't even know if we lose power up top really. Don't get ridiculously philosophical.

A dyno will do the job now, its better evidence than a video of a speedometer.

Plus, not everyone uses dynos to fake shit. some people use it for what they were intended.





'critical thinking' FTW!


Its interisting how you are trying to make fun of me with that, but now you just look like a dick. I simply asked for evidence as proof, if you have none, then simply state that you are speculating.

BTW, I can't help but notice your signature...Are you a very active chrisitan? (sorry for the off-topic question, its curiousity and I won't bring it up in reply).

[fastdreams]

The K04's that Neuspeed sells for Audi/VW is a K04-15, and it's going on 1.8L engines - even with that small of an engine the k04-15 still runs out of breath before redline. The k03 it replaces is even worse on the 1.8t, coincidentally it ran out of useable power at around 5500rpm and it made sense to short shift. The k04-15 is tiny. It's all about low end torque and midrange punch, try to run too much boost at too high of an RPM and it's just a very hot and weak hair dryer. The best turbo for useable power on the 1.8t is the GT28RS. IMO.

The MS3 k04 is similar in that it's about low-end torque and midrange punch. You can up the boost and try to force it to make power to redline but it's not ideal and so you won't get ideal results. It's a TINY tiny little turbo. Seriously, hold one in your hands and you'll understand.

[Gmac03]

Did he say Garrett? You talking about the disco Potato? I like that turbo, but a bigger fan of the 2871r.

Gmac

[controlo]

Just to provide a bit of an explanation of what happy and angry is trying to say:

A few people have started finding that they lose times(to be exact about .1-.2 of a second and 3-4 mph on the trap) on there quarter mile when they shift before redline in 3-4 and/or 4-5. This is believed to be due to the gearing ratio times.

Lastly, if you want to get right down to it based on dynos can be doctored. They we don't even know if we lose power up top really. Don't get ridiculously philosophical.

A dyno will do the job now, its better evidence than a video of a speedometer.

Plus, not everyone uses dynos to fake shit. some people use it for what they were intended.






Its interisting how you are trying to make fun of me with that, but now you just look like a dick. I simply asked for evidence as proof, if you have none, then simply state that you are speculating.

BTW, I can't help but notice your signature...Are you a very active chrisitan? (sorry for the off-topic question, its curiousity and I won't bring it up in reply).


ok. first, i never said the video was proof of anything. it just seems to me that the video shows him making power in the upper rpms. maybe to some, it seems that he has enough power to make the power drop seem invisible.

i do understand gear ratios and that people ride out 4th instead of shifting to 5th to shave time. that doesn't work for all gears though.

secondly, it has nothing to do with philosophy. i was merely showing a video that i feel shows him making power after 6k. i don't know about you but i can hear when my motor stops making power after 6k too.

if someone shows me something that seems reasonable, i usually believe it. there's no reason for me not to. also, a dyno graph isn't proof of anything. the fact that most people wouldn't doctor them doesn't mean they aren't doctored.

keep in mind, it isn't required for you to believe what's happening in this video in order for it to be true.

i wasn't trying to start an argument at all. it all started when he called it 'dumb evidence'

i DID state that it was speculation. i said 'i think' in my very first post. then i posted a video for people to consider. for the tenth time... i never said it was 'proof'.

maybe i should've posted this thread in the first place. i just didn't feel like searching for it. i assumed that everyone would view the video as i did. oh well.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123689668&highlight=12.9

take it for what it is. nothing is ever 'proof'.

i don't even like that fucking word.

and no, i'm not a christian. you can PM me if you want to have a philosophical discussion. :)

[controlo]

The K04's that Neuspeed sells for Audi/VW is a K04-15, and it's going on 1.8L engines - even with that small of an engine the k04-15 still runs out of breath before redline. The k03 it replaces is even worse on the 1.8t, coincidentally it ran out of useable power at around 5500rpm and it made sense to short shift. The k04-15 is tiny. It's all about low end torque and midrange punch, try to run too much boost at too high of an RPM and it's just a very hot and weak hair dryer. The best turbo for useable power on the 1.8t is the GT28RS. IMO.

The MS3 k04 is similar in that it's about low-end torque and midrange punch. You can up the boost and try to force it to make power to redline but it's not ideal and so you won't get ideal results. It's a TINY tiny little turbo. Seriously, hold one in your hands and you'll understand.


it is tiny. look at the nuespeed info that someone posted a few posts back, though.

it says it can't operate 'reliably' at over 15psi past the 5700rpm mark or whatever.

i'd much rather have 15psi after 6k than no psi. hehe.

[controlo]

I'm having a real difficult time understanding how you can argue that a video of a speedometer and a tach is "as much proof" of turbo inefficiency after 5500 RPM as a dyno sheet with a serious drop off in power at 5500 would be. I'm also struggling to grasp how you can argue "I didn't bring up this video that is entirely unrelated to the topic at hand to prove anything. It's not 'proof' of anything!" So you brought it up for no reason at all and should shut up about it then, I guess?

Do you know the difference between empirical evidence and circumstantial evidence? Or are you going to cop out with the "yea but someone could fake a graph!!1!!!11!!" ridiculousness again? Stick with that logic, and this entire thread could be based on unsourced fabrications. Christ, how do we even know CP-E's reflash provides any benefits! Those dyno sheets are probably fabricated, am I right? How do we know anything on this entire message board isn't just a big ol' lie! Screw charts, computer analysis and numbers, they are all misleading!!

Critical thinking my ass, buddy.


here ya go: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123689668&highlight=12.9

wow. this whole argument has spawned from your misinterpretation of 'evidence'. get out of here with this empirical evidence and circumstantial evidence shit. this isn't a court room. i can provide definitions if you want.

the point is, no matter how much you want to dispute it, that NOTHING can be proven. all you can do is take what is reasonable and 'prove' it to yourself. until something comes along and you have to 'disprove' yourself. :) watching a video of something doesn't prove it. seeing charts doesn't prove anything. period. end of story. i'm not saying graphs are misleading but they just don't 'prove' anything. when someone posts a graph that seems reasonable, you will probably believe it. that doesn't mean it's true.

i never said it was proof. i was giving you something to consider. you obviously didn't consider it. it's a video of a person that posted a video after claiming he had power to redline.

all i said was, there are people making power to redline, 'i think'.

then i posted a video of why I think that. i probably should've posted a link to the thread as well but then we wouldn't have had this incredibly intellectual conversation. :)

[happy and angry]

Seeing numbers and data don't prove anything? Okay, so you must live in a mysterious moon logic world where you are only sure Sun rises in the morning when you see it for yourself, and 2 + 2 only equals four when you prove it from first principals.

Here is how it works. A video provides a theory. "I think this car is making power to redline." You then verify that theory with data. "I have a dyno graph." You then look at the dyno graph and see power drop off hard at 5500 rpm, just like all the other K04s, and then say "What's going on?" Then you think "Oh, he's probably just taking advantage of gearing." See? There is a logical progression that has some semblance of reason behind it that isn't "I THINK."

But hey, I have a video of a guy reving the MS3 really loud to show off his exhaust set up, but he's taking it to redline. I think it demonstrates how the car makes power up to redline. Wanna see it?

[controlo]

Seeing numbers and data don't prove anything? Okay, so you must live in a mysterious moon logic world where you are only sure Sun rises in the morning when you see it for yourself, and 2 + 2 only equals four when you prove it from first principals.

Here is how it works. A video provides a theory. "I think this car is making power to redline." You then verify that theory with data. "I have a dyno graph." You then look at the dyno graph and see power drop off hard at 5500 rpm, just like all the other K04s, and then say "What's going on?" Then you think "Oh, he's probably just taking advantage of gearing." See? There is a logical progression that has some semblance of reason behind it that isn't "I THINK."

But hey, I have a video of a guy reving the MS3 really loud to show off his exhaust set up, but he's taking it to redline. I think it demonstrates how the car makes power up to redline. Wanna see it?

i never presented the video to be anything other than what it is. you did.

and yes, seeing a graph that seems reasonable doesn't mean that it wasn't fabricated. why is that so hard to comprehend?

did you even read the thread that i posted a link to? it goes along with the irrelevant video. late.

[Vord]

i never presented the video to be anything other than what it is. you did.

and yes, seeing a graph that seems reasonable doesn't mean that it wasn't fabricated. why is that so hard to comprehend?

did you even read the thread that i posted a link to? it goes along with the irrelevant video. late.

Although your thread is relevant, if we use your philosophy, those graphs (which are excel graphs) could have been modified!! lol

realisiticlly, laloosh is using a a standback to control his boost, making our K04 arguement relatively obsolete. I don't think anyone is going to deny that our fuel pump sucks, but I think that our turbo goes out first.

[happy and angry]

You said "this is the best 'evidence' i have:" And I said "Then don't bring it up if it's not evidence."

Oh, I see what you did there! You put the word evidence in quotes so as to suggest it wasn't actually evidence, even though you were using it as such! Man, that's a neat trick. I have some "evidence" in this thread that "you" do not "understand" critical thinking or "how to present ideas" and that "perhaps" you should stop trying to argue that "it wasn't presented as evidence" when you brought up the video to "address" someone "saying" "show me some evidence."

You see what I just did there?

If you want to play the "YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET MAN, IT MIGHT BE FAKE!!!" card, go ahead, be a little manchild, throw a tantrum, take your toys, and go home. I will, however, hope that Laloosh posts a dyno chart one day so I can see if he makes power past 5500, and if he does I will not suggest that he is a liar and faked it if his results don't mesh with my opinion.

[dcomiskey]

Wow, great work! I gotta get this flash!! Does seem high at $400 for a flash, but we gotta think about the time that went into developing this.

Swampass, any drawbacks to the flash?

$400 is cheap for a flash. Hell, on my VW I paid $500 PLUS another $200 for a controller....

[controlo]

You said "this is the best 'evidence' i have:" And I said "Then don't bring it up if it's not evidence."

Oh, I see what you did there! You put the word evidence in quotes so as to suggest it wasn't actually evidence, even though you were using it as such! Man, that's a neat trick. I have some "evidence" in this thread that "you" do not "understand" critical thinking or "how to present ideas" and that "perhaps" you should stop trying to argue that "it wasn't presented as evidence" when you brought up the video to "address" someone "saying" "show me some evidence."

You see what I just did there?

If you want to play the "YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET MAN, IT MIGHT BE FAKE!!!" card, go ahead, be a little manchild, throw a tantrum, take your toys, and go home. I will, however, hope that Laloosh posts a dyno chart one day so I can see if he makes power past 5500, and if he does I will not suggest that he is a liar and faked it if his results don't mesh with my opinion.

:rolleyes:
i was basically saying, "this isn't proof, but it's something to consider". but, what's the problem with that? if you don't want to consider it, don't. you don't have to be a douche. i never said that all graphs are fake. obviously, since i showed you the link to multiple graphs, hoping they might meet your criteria and you'd shut the fuck up. i also never said that a graph is fake if it doesn't mesh with my opinion. don't put words in my mouth. it's very simple. just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true. i.e. a dyno graph being more evidential than a video demonstrating what a dyno graph would show.

you asked for 'proof' in an asshole way and i'm trying to explain to you that there's no such thing as proof on an internet forum. you wouldn't except that, so i gave you graphs that i thought you might except. instead, you cry about it still.

you've made no valid arguments against me. you started the argument, you're going to end it. or are you?

[controlo]

Although your thread is relevant, if we use your philosophy, those graphs (which are excel graphs) could have been modified!! lol

realisiticlly, laloosh is using a a standback to control his boost, making our K04 arguement relatively obsolete. I don't think anyone is going to deny that our fuel pump sucks, but I think that our turbo goes out first.

you're right, they could have been. i'm not saying those graphs or videos are real or fake. i'm merely providing them. you can consider them evidence or you cannot consider them at all. i felt like that might contribute to this thread. instead, it summoned the almighty intellect of happy and angry.

i don't think that the turbo runs out of steam entirely... i think there is an efficiency range much higher than what mazda implements. mazda basically shuts down boost at 5700rpms. the nuespeed info states that the k04 can't reliably run 15psi or higher after 5800 rpms. that, to me, means that it can run 14psi safely.

and i don't know if that efficiency rating can be altered with modifications... what if you had a way of reducing exhaust heat? ceramic coated something... one of my friends was talking about. :)

anyway... i didn't mean to insult you either Vord. I just felt like i was being attacked. (dark)(eek2)

(drinks)

[controlo]

sorry for fucking up your thready swamp. :/

[Vord]

You said "this is the best 'evidence' i have:" And I said "Then don't bring it up if it's not evidence."

Oh, I see what you did there! You put the word evidence in quotes so as to suggest it wasn't actually evidence, even though you were using it as such! Man, that's a neat trick. I have some "evidence" in this thread that "you" do not "understand" critical thinking or "how to present ideas" and that "perhaps" you should stop trying to argue that "it wasn't presented as evidence" when you brought up the video to "address" someone "saying" "show me some evidence."

You see what I just did there?

If you want to play the "YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET MAN, IT MIGHT BE FAKE!!!" card, go ahead, be a little manchild, throw a tantrum, take your toys, and go home. I will, however, hope that Laloosh posts a dyno chart one day so I can see if he makes power past 5500, and if he does I will not suggest that he is a liar and faked it if his results don't mesh with my opinion.

I am pretty sure laloosh is banned.


you're right, they could have been. i'm not saying those graphs or videos are real or fake. i'm merely providing them. you can consider them evidence or you cannot consider them at all. i felt like that might contribute to this thread. instead, it summoned the almighty intellect of happy and angry.

i don't think that the turbo runs out of steam entirely... i think there is an efficiency range much higher than what mazda implements. mazda basically shuts down boost at 5700rpms. the nuespeed info states that the k04 can't reliably run 15psi or higher after 5800 rpms. that, to me, means that it can run 14psi safely.

and i don't know if that efficiency rating can be altered with modifications... what if you had a way of reducing exhaust heat? ceramic coated something... one of my friends was talking about. :)

anyway... i didn't mean to insult you either Vord. I just felt like i was being attacked. (dark)(eek2)

(drinks)

well, someone stated earlier that there are multiple K04 turbos, so perhaps neuspeed is talking about a shittier one.

I think that for the purpose of maintaining 15.6psi we could easily put on a boost controller and a bigger pump and just go with it. if you want more boost, I would say be safe, don't blow your shit up and get a bigger turbo.

(btw, anyone else notice that NEUSPEED uses the same exact font as MAZDASPEED? Is that a conincidence or am I missing something)

[happy and angry]

:rolleyes:
i was basically saying, "this isn't proof, but it's something to consider". but, what's the problem with that? if you don't want to consider it, don't. you don't have to be a douche. i never said that all graphs are fake. obviously, since i showed you the link to multiple graphs, hoping they might meet your criteria and you'd shut the fuck up. i also never said that a graph is fake if it doesn't mesh with my opinion. don't put words in my mouth. it's very simple. just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true. i.e. a dyno graph being more evidential than a video demonstrating what a dyno graph would show.

you asked for 'proof' in an asshole way and i'm trying to explain to you that there's no such thing as proof on an internet forum. you wouldn't except that, so i gave you graphs that i thought you might except. instead, you cry about it still.

you've made no valid arguments against me. you started the argument, you're going to end it. or are you?I never asked you for proof, I told you that the "proof" you brought up when someone asked you for proof was crap. You didn't say "here is something to consider for this reason and this reason and this reason" you said "here is some 'evidence'" and left it at that. I called your "evidence" crap and told you to make it less crap or not bring it up.

It's still not even something to think about. All it does is show a guy shifting high in the RPM range. It doesn't address the making power past 5500 question, and all it does is pose another question: why does he shift that high? For which there are multiple answers, only one of which is "because power does not drop off drastically after 5500 rpm." The "proof"/"something to think about" that you provided is worse than nothing, it is misleading and worthless at best.

Here is why your stance on the dyno graph is dumb: a dyno graph will show you exactly what happens to the torque curves at any given point in the RPM range. Your video does not. It just shows a dude's front console, which, as I've already explained, is meaningless. It doesn't measure power, it just measures.... uh.... speed. You can no more watch the speedometer and guess at torque numbers or where the effective power band is than you can flap your arms and fly. To suggest that a video of a speedo and a dyno graph are somehow equivalent or equally representative of where and when the turbo runs out of breath is ridiculous.


you've made no valid arguments against me.Really? What you said, how you said it, and the video you used to support your position were stupid. You might like to tell yourself I'm incorrect about this, but if I was to show you a video of a speedometer as a driver accelerated followed by saying "Check out how early in the RPM band he's making power, that's like 400 lb.ft of torque!!!" I would hope you would be able to see how what I was showing you did not necessarily (at all) corroborate what I was arguing.

What you say and how you say it, in the context in which you say it, matters. Try out that critical thinking thing.

[MS3-oholic]

This thread is exactly why I hate this forum more every time I visit. Everyone is just a bunch of squabbling females. I love the "other" site much better and I hope all of you stay away so youd don't ruin it for all of us over there.

[controlo]

This thread is exactly why I hate this forum more every time I visit. Everyone is just a bunch of squabbling females. I love the "other" site much better and I hope all of you stay away so youd don't ruin it for all of us over there.

trust me, i don't like arguing. and it doesn't matter what forum you go to, people argue. there is always someone who thinks they're right and wont rest until they've proven to the world that they are.

the car in the video runs as the graphs in the thread suggest it should. end.

[ericrapp]

Discourse is, Democracy in action, ms3. It doesn't need to be taken personally by either of the debaters. but argued logically and with some passion, might help to win the debate. A more civilized form of jousting when used correctly. And hate is a strong word.. Some arguments or DISCussion [ I'm not yelling I am just talking loud!] might do well to be private. I agree sir in some cases. Although, it is a natural thing to call bullshit on a friends doing a little story telling.

[controlo]

Discourse is, Democracy in action, ms3. It doesn't need to be taken personally by either of the debaters. but argued logically and with some passion, might help to win the debate. A more civilized form of jousting when used correctly. And hate is a strong word.. Some arguments or DISCussion [ I'm not yelling I am just talking loud!] might do well to be private. I agree sir in some cases. Although, it is a natural thing to call bullshit on a friends doing a little story telling.

i agree 100%. i just don't like when people start with an attitude. it makes it hard to continue nicely.

[happy and angry]

the car in the video runs as the graphs in the thread suggest it should. end.But you didn't bring up the video to prove anything, remember?
i just don't like when people start with an attitude. it makes it hard to continue nicely."Boo hoo someone was mean to me on the internets!"

[controlo]

But you didn't bring up the video to prove anything, remember?"Boo hoo someone was mean to me on the internets!"

since when is a suggestion a proof? (stfu)

you're right. i'm wrong.

[Vord]

lol, I like the signature change!

anything on topic? sorry to have had a hand in mangling this thread.

[tsunami]

wow guys this thread sucks... keep the internet fighting to a minimum please!

[AutoXRacer]

OK, going back to the CP-E flash...

I will be getting this flash done in August since my car will be down for a week or so. And I will be dynoing pre and post flash to see if there is a difference since I can't tell anymore...

Here are the details:

Right now the flash is only a 100% throttle control which means instead of WOT on the stock map yielding 70% open...it will give you 100% open.

What does this mean to the stock MS3...nothing much really since you are already restricted by your stock intake, leaky BPV, restrictive TMIC, and exhaust. You will get gains, but not as much as that dyno sheet.

Now, if you start modding, you will reap full benefits. For example, I am only getting 70% of the benefits of my breathing mods. When I get flashed, my intake, TMIC, and exhaust will be yielding 100% off there usefulness. Basically, the more your modded, the more HP/TQ you'll get.

Its simple, even if you bolt-on a big turbo...you'll only be getting 70% of the power no matter what you bolt-on there...until you open the throttle plate 100%, you're only half-throttling it...

Now, regarding the product... Right now the intro price is $399 and you get discounts if you also purchase the Stand-back. The Stand-back is used to FINE tune your ECU for your specific mods.

The flash will be a generic bolt-on that anyone can use. Whether you have just an intake, big turbo, full bolt-ons, anyone can use it and feel a difference.

CP-E will continue to develop this flash to include customizable flashes that include increasing boost, improving drivability (open loop to close loop transition), a fix for the cold weather bug in stock tune, mild fuel and timing adjustment... All these added benefits will be free once you purchase the flash...the only downside is that you have to send them your ECU...if you are lucky enough to live near then you've got it made!!

I think this is a great product because it fits everyone...and its affordable.
A flash that fits everyone and if you need more tuning...there is the standback...

Oh and regarding the power limit on 1st and 2nd... Why would anyone want more... 1st and 2nd are useless if you are just spinning... (huh)
1st and 2nd are killing my times at the track cause I can't even half throttle it. (bang)

[gtlaw]

OK, going back to the CP-E flash...

I will be getting this flash done in August since my car will be down for a week or so. And I will be dynoing pre and post flash to see if there is a difference since I can't tell anymore...

Here are the details:

Right now the flash is only a 100% throttle control which means instead of WOT on the stock map yielding 70% open...it will give you 100% open.

What does this mean to the stock MS3...nothing much really since you are already restricted by your stock intake, leaky BPV, restrictive TMIC, and exhaust. You will get gains, but not as much as that dyno sheet.

Now, if you start modding, you will reap full benefits. For example, I am only getting 70% of the benefits of my breathing mods. When I get flashed, my intake, TMIC, and exhaust will be yielding 100% off there usefulness. Basically, the more your modded, the more HP/TQ you'll get.

Its simple, even if you bolt-on a big turbo...you'll only be getting 70% of the power no matter what you bolt-on there...until you open the throttle plate 100%, you're only half-throttling it...

Now, regarding the product... Right now the intro price is $399 and you get discounts if you also purchase the Stand-back. The Stand-back is used to FINE tune your ECU for your specific mods.

The flash will be a generic bolt-on that anyone can use. Whether you have just an intake, big turbo, full bolt-ons, anyone can use it and feel a difference.

CP-E will continue to develop this flash to include customizable flashes that include increasing boost, improving drivability (open loop to close loop transition), a fix for the cold weather bug in stock tune, mild fuel and timing adjustment... All these added benefits will be free once you purchase the flash...the only downside is that you have to send them your ECU...if you are lucky enough to live near then you've got it made!!

I think this is a great product because it fits everyone...and its affordable.
A flash that fits everyone and if you need more tuning...there is the standback...

Oh and regarding the power limit on 1st and 2nd... Why would anyone want more... 1st and 2nd are useless if you are just spinning... (huh)
1st and 2nd are killing my times at the track cause I can't even half throttle it. (bang)

oh it won't affect that well then I'm not interested. yes I do want more in 1st, and 2nd I would rather regulate wheel spin with my right foot than let mazdas computer not let me have any. this drive by wire crap is one of the things I hate most about this car

[happy and angry]

Oh and regarding the power limit on 1st and 2nd... Why would anyone want more... 1st and 2nd are useless if you are just spinning... (huh) 1st and 2nd are killing my times at the track cause I can't even half throttle it. (bang)I'm not planning on a lot of power mods, mostly things to address wheel hop and traction (motor mounts, Cobb stage 2, Azenis). I'm going to get the Cobb SRI for a bit of a bump in power, but that might be it unless I decide to upgrade the BPV. I want those boost limiters in 1st and 2nd and a way to fully disable traction control for the same reason I want a way to allow myself to get full control over the throttle plate position: I want full control over my vehicle. I don't want to have zero power in a corner because the vehicle is afraid I'm going to lose traction before it even happens, I don't want to be limited in power in first and second artificially. I want to drive my car.

[lestat13]

oh it won't affect that well then I'm not interested. yes I do want more in 1st, and 2nd I would rather regulate wheel spin with my right foot than let mazdas computer not let me have any. this drive by wire crap is one of the things I hate most about this car

That's your opinion, of course.

I already have enough power in first and second gear, lose grip, and still waiting for my FMIC and DP situation to clear up. Once I'm all modded up if I can get full boost in first and second, it's going to take me FAR to long to get traction.

For me, 1 and 2 are fine, but 3+ I'll take everything you can throw at me!

[AutoXRacer]

Trust me, you don't need anymore power in 1st and 2nd. Its basically imposible to control wheelspin on this car. Its ON or its slow... With a simple intake, you will roast your tires. And the whole limited power while turning the steering wheel is not limited...I smoke my tires at the races all the time; I don't try to though.

You can disable traction control and the steering power limit by shutting down your DSC and TC... As far as I know, mine is totally disabled...at least it feels that way.

To eaches own...

[happy and angry]

Trust me, you don't need anymore power in 1st and 2nd. Its basically imposible to control wheelspin on this car. Its ON or its slow... With a simple intake, you will roast your tires. And the whole limited power while turning the steering wheel is not limited...I smoke my tires at the races all the time; I don't try to though.

You can disable traction control and the steering power limit by shutting down your DSC and TC... As far as I know, mine is totally disabled...at least it feels that way.

To eaches own...I know I don't need it, and I roast the tires as it is all the time if I want to, but that doesn't mean I don't want to have full control over my car on a track. I cook tires in corners with the DSC/TC off, but I want more direct control without electronics in the way when I track my car. Need and want are different.

[AutoXRacer]

The only way I see that happening is with a standalone...

[Retrobmx63]

Trust me, you don't need anymore power in 1st and 2nd. Its basically imposible to control wheelspin on this car. Its ON or its slow... With a simple intake, you will roast your tires.

I'm beginning to worry there's something wrong with my car. I have stock wheels/tires and I've never roasted my tires when I floor it in first or second. This is with and without an intake.

I break a little bit of traction at the top end of both gears, but they barely spin.

Is it possible something is wrong with my car?

[ericrapp]

Push the dsc button and a little light will come up on your gauge on your left this means the wheelspin is now up to you to stop. full throttle will roast em up. are you sure you have a speed 3? hahah And if so you probably just need a heavier foot!

[gtlaw]

Trust me, you don't need anymore power in 1st and 2nd. Its basically imposible to control wheelspin on this car. Its ON or its slow... With a simple intake, you will roast your tires. And the whole limited power while turning the steering wheel is not limited...I smoke my tires at the races all the time; I don't try to though.

You can disable traction control and the steering power limit by shutting down your DSC and TC... As far as I know, mine is totally disabled...at least it feels that way.



To eaches own...

how do you turn off TC?


Push the dsc button and a little light will come up on your gauge on your left this means the wheelspin is now up to you to stop. full throttle will roast em up. are you sure you have a speed 3? hahah And if so you probably just need a heavier foot!

in a straight line, but in turns the power feels greatly diminished

[AutoXRacer]

I've never had to turn off DCS...though I think they spin more with DSC off...


I'm beginning to worry there's something wrong with my car. I have stock wheels/tires and I've never roasted my tires when I floor it in first or second. This is with and without an intake.

I break a little bit of traction at the top end of both gears, but they barely spin.

Is it possible something is wrong with my car?

Are you still on stock rubber? Though, I still have traction issues with my race rubber...
I wouldn't worry about it...its probably the heat thats killing your power. If you had an upgraded intercooler, your power loss would be less.

[Retrobmx63]

I've never had to turn off DCS...though I think they spin more with DSC off...



Are you still on stock rubber? Though, I still have traction issues with my race rubber...
I wouldn't worry about it...its probably the heat thats killing your power. If you had an upgraded intercooler, your power loss would be less.

Yeah I'm running stock rubber. I've turned off DSC and if I floor it in 1st and 2nd I just get a little squeal as I slightly break traction in the top end.

With reading a lot of talk of people being able to roast the tires on demand, I feel like I have an anemic Speed3 :(

Note: Obviously dumping the clutch will spin the tires, so please don't suggest that, haha.

[AutoXRacer]

Yeah I'm running stock rubber. I've turned off DSC and if I floor it in 1st and 2nd I just get a little squeal as I slightly break traction in the top end.

With reading a lot of talk of people being able to roast the tires on demand, I feel like I have an anemic Speed3 :(

Note: Obviously dumping the clutch will spin the tires, so please don't suggest that, haha.

What temps are you driving in? Thats weird, my stock MS3 broke traction at the top-end slightly, but after installing the MS CAI, 1st and 2nd broke traction like crazy. I'm thinking you have heat soak and your SRI is digesting hot air.

[happy and angry]

What temps are you driving in? Thats weird, my stock MS3 broke traction at the top-end slightly, but after installing the MS CAI, 1st and 2nd broke traction like crazy. I'm thinking you have heat soak and your SRI is digesting hot air.Heat soak takes forever to develop and requires long periods of hard running to develop. He's also not sucking in hot air with the car moving, even with an SRI.

[happy and angry]

Let me amend this slightly: I doubt it is heat soak or sucking hot air, at least early on in his drive. If he's out driving for 30 - 40 minutes before he gets into it, then maybe, but somehow I don't think this is always the case. Perhaps boost leaks?

[controlo]

i have test pipe, bpv, cai and my car breaks loose in second sometimes. but it's hot as fuck here too though. i might reset my computer since i didn't do that for the bpv...

[Retrobmx63]

Let me amend this slightly: I doubt it is heat soak or sucking hot air, at least early on in his drive. If he's out driving for 30 - 40 minutes before he gets into it, then maybe, but somehow I don't think this is always the case. Perhaps boost leaks?

Yeah I definitely don't want this to turn into a CAI vs SRI thread. And I apologize to the OP if I've already thread jacked this.

Anyways, I do doubt heat soak is the issue as happy and angry has said. It's very early in my drive. I let the car warm up by driving gently for a handful of miles (but at a decent speed to make sure I'm getting good airflow).

Then I find a quiet road and test it out my acceleration.

It's unfortunate I don't have a boost gauge to check for leaks. Any other ways to check for leaks?

[Retrobmx63]

Also, this is a wild theory, and feel free to debunk it as it will make me feel a lot better.

Is it possible my ecu "learned to be slow".

What I mean by that, is most of my daily driving, I'm just commuting to work so I'm barely in boost.

Could my ecu have mapped to my driving habit for more of an economy standpoint?

[ericrapp]

Alot of heat will effect your power for sure I have heat soaked twice this summer. and boo. But boost leaking is a real issue on the stock turbo piping and maybe a valve check hose clamps for tightness, if you do not have the ability to read boost. My hot side Intercooler pipe got so soft from repeated heating it became useless. There are lots of reasons for power loss. Which you definitely have. On stock tires my car with MScai would spin first, most of second, would chirp third. Have the dealer check this. do not mod up your car to fix a problem. yet. Although saying I cannot smoke up tires in second might not be the best approach! Just say it seems to be down on power lately. Worth a try? i do not believe your issue is heat soak either. Maybe your tires are super sticky. How is the speedo doing under a hard run. if your 0-60 is under 6 seconds or the 1/4 is done in less than 14 secs do not worry about wheelspin!

[Retrobmx63]

check hose clamps for tightness, if you do not have the ability to read boost.

Yeah I may have to do this. I remember seeing a thread long ago about checking your clamps.


Although saying I cannot smoke up tires in second might not be the best approach! Just say it seems to be down on power lately. Worth a try?

Haha, definitely my thoughts exactly. I was trying to figure out how to explain this to a dealer, without looking like a ricer idiot.


Maybe your tires are super sticky.

I had this thought as well. But I am running stock tires. Not to say they suck. But it seems most people on the forums are switching to stickier rubber.


How is the speedo doing under a hard run. if your 0-60 is under 6 seconds or the 1/4 is done in less than 14 secs do not worry about wheelspin!

I'm not sure what I'm putting down for stats. Never ran a 1/4 mile. But I wholeheartedly agree that wheelspin is not a measure of how fast your car is. I was only getting concerned when I kept reading about people being able to light up their tires on demand. That's when I thought to myself... wait a minute my car doesn't do that (uhm)

[controlo]

Yeah I may have to do this. I remember seeing a thread long ago about checking your clamps.



Haha, definitely my thoughts exactly. I was trying to figure out how to explain this to a dealer, without looking like a ricer idiot.



I had this thought as well. But I am running stock tires. Not to say they suck. But it seems most people on the forums are switching to stickier rubber.



I'm not sure what I'm putting down for stats. Never ran a 1/4 mile. But I wholeheartedly agree that wheelspin is not a measure of how fast your car is. I was only getting concerned when I kept reading about people being able to light up their tires on demand. That's when I thought to myself... wait a minute my car doesn't do that (uhm)


yeah, i think the same thing sometimes. and then i pulled on a LS1. hehe. :)

[jeff4880]

I don't understand what the big deal is that the car doesn't pull all the way to red line? Why not just shift the car at 5500 r.p.m.?

I have been racing motorcycles for so long I can't remember, and if the bike only makes power to 12,000 I shift it at 12,000 and set the rev limiter to around 12,800 or 13,000 so I don't accidently hit the limiter by trying to shift to close to it. The Speed3 makes power to 5500 and the limiter is somewhere past 6000. Sounds o.k. to me.

[controlo]

I don't understand what the big deal is that the car doesn't pull all the way to red line? Why not just shift the car at 5500 r.p.m.?

I have been racing motorcycles for so long I can't remember, and if the bike only makes power to 12,000 I shift it at 12,000 and set the rev limiter to around 12,800 or 13,000 so I don't accidently hit the limiter by trying to shift to close to it. The Speed3 makes power to 5500 and the limiter is somewhere past 6000. Sounds o.k. to me.

yeah, it's OK. it would just be nice to be able to ride the gears out. i really don't understand why the rev limiter is so far from where it stops making power. they left a little room for tuning. (yes)

[AutoXRacer]

I don't understand what the big deal is that the car doesn't pull all the way to red line? Why not just shift the car at 5500 r.p.m.?

I have been racing motorcycles for so long I can't remember, and if the bike only makes power to 12,000 I shift it at 12,000 and set the rev limiter to around 12,800 or 13,000 so I don't accidently hit the limiter by trying to shift to close to it. The Speed3 makes power to 5500 and the limiter is somewhere past 6000. Sounds o.k. to me.

Fuel cut is 6,600 or so...

[ericrapp]

yeah, it's OK. it would just be nice to be able to ride the gears out. i really don't understand why the rev limiter is so far from where it stops making power. they left a little room for tuning. (yes) you are correct sir there of course ways to run the the car up the rpms but the Turbo does lose efficiency. from what I hear. But I think they left alot of room for tuning!

[controlo]

you are correct sir there of course ways to run the the car up the rpms but the Turbo does lose efficiency. from what I hear. But I think they left alot of room for tuning!

yeah... if you check back a couple pages, there's a statement from nuespeed about our k04 turbo. it talks about the turbo losing efficiency due to exhaust temps past 5800rpm. check it out. apparently our turbo can run less than 15psi past 5800rpm's 'reliably'... but mazda chose the 0psi route.