so how are you guys hooking up boost controllers?

[Aaron@JSC]

I installed my MBC according to this thread: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123683964

I am using a Hallman Pro RX MBC with the soft spring. I hooked up the boost controller between the compressor and the lower wastegate nipple. I capped off the upper wastegate nipple and the solenoid.

I set the boost controller to full OPEN counter-clockwise (should only run off the wastegate spring) and the car spikes/creeps between 20-25psi.

At first I thought there may be a leak, so I tore the car back down and redid all the vacuum caps and hoses, made sure there were no kinks or leaks. Replaced both hoses from the MBC to the WGA and the compressor.

Put everything back together and still have the same issue. Adjusting the knob a few turns tighter makes no difference.

So now I am pretty sure that the boost controller must be faulty somehow-- though I don't know how, its a pretty basic design. The ball moves freely, both the the nipples seem to seal properly. As soon as I get to work monday I am going to try and swap out the valve with another to see if it makes a difference.

EDIT: its definitely not the MBC, I swapped it with another MBC working fine on an STi and it does the same exact thing. I am now positive it is the orientation of the controller on the plumbing.

Any thoughts? And yes I have made sure that the compressor/WGA hoses are not swapped (about 100 times)

mods- AEM CAI, TurboXS DP/RP, HKS CBE, HKS SSQV (recirc.)

[LBV]

I tried playing with an MBC too and the boost spikes made me take it back off ... never did get the spikes down after trying a bunch of things.

Let us know if you find a solution.

[Aaron@JSC]

I tried playing with an MBC too and the boost spikes made me take it back off ... never did get the spikes down after trying a bunch of things.

Let us know if you find a solution.

what brand and how did you hook it up?

mine aren't spikes..it litereally wants to boost 20+ psi, the WGA is obviously not opening the wastegate at all.

[ericrapp]

Are you sure it is not clockwise most regulators close up the flow by turning this way. And counter opens the valve. I do not have these items but that is a standard in industrial applications. Soory to be idjit

[UHATEIT]

can this car "safely" run at 20-25psi? That seems like a good amount of boostin if so!

[LBV]

what brand and how did you hook it up?

mine aren't spikes..it litereally wants to boost 20+ psi, the WGA is obviously not opening the wastegate at all.

Accuboost was the brand and I hooked it up the same way you did.

Are you sure you're turning it the right way?? Holding 20+ could be risky although I know tru-boost says it's not.

[Aaron@JSC]

Are you sure it is not clockwise most regulators close up the flow by turning this way. And counter opens the valve. I do not have these items but that is a standard in industrial applications. Soory to be idjit

All ball and spring boost controllers are counter-clockwise for open, clockwise for closed. I have never heard of a brand that was set up otherwise.

can this car "safely" run at 20-25psi? That seems like a good amount of boostin if so!

no! thats why I'm not giving the car full throttle until I get the boost controller fixed.

Accuboost was the brand and I hooked it up the same way you did.

Are you sure you're turning it the right way?? Holding 20+ could be risky although I know tru-boost says it's not.

yes I am turning it the right way-- its very clearly marked-- here is what it looks like.

whenever you 'tune' a MBC you always want to start with it all the way unscrewed-- this means that essentially the boost controller is obsolete, the car will control boost with the internal spring in the wastegate actuator. In the MS3, you boost would be capped at approx. 10psi. As you slowly turn the MBC down, it puts more tension on the valve and lets less boost through, this give s you more boost.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c204/WRXD/DSC_0143.jpg

[cageyvet]

Do you have the two nipples on the boost solenoid capped off along with the nipple from the intake and the nipple on top of the actuator?

[Aaron@JSC]

Do you have the two nipples on the boost solenoid capped off along with the nipple from the intake and the nipple on top of the actuator?

no, I left the hose from the intake to the solenoid outlet on. It shouldn't make any difference.

[cageyvet]

I'd cap off both of these nipples per/the instructions on installing the profec B spec II, http://www.alamomotorsports.com/greddy/PROFEC_B_SPEC2.pdf , pg 8 in the manual.

[Aaron@JSC]

I'd cap off both of these nipples per/the instructions on installing the profec B spec II, http://www.alamomotorsports.com/greddy/PROFEC_B_SPEC2.pdf , pg 8 in the manual.

I will definitely give it a try, but it shouldnt make a difference. The inlet of the BCS is capped off, the outlet and recirc. line are obsolete if the IN port to the BCS is capped off.

[PerformanceRacing]

How did it work out for you?

I can't recall as its been about a year since I installed my GT30, and it is routed differently, but..

You can the closer nipple on the solenoid, and connect the further nippler to intake.
You install the mbc inline between the compressor/pressure source and the nipple on the WGA, and cap the other nipple.

[Aaron@JSC]

How did it work out for you?

I can't recall as its been about a year since I installed my GT30, and it is routed differently, but..

You can the closer nipple on the solenoid, and connect the further nippler to intake.
You install the mbc inline between the compressor/pressure source and the nipple on the WGA, and cap the other nipple.

OK-- I have made some illustrations to make my point--

1. Stock boost control plumbing

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c204/WRXD/stock-setup.jpg

2. This is how I currently have my MBC setup, it does not work. This is how most, if not all, MBC instructions will tell you how to hook it up.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c204/WRXD/tradmbc.jpg

3. This is an alternative method suggested to me by a local tuner. I have not tried it yet, nor have seen anyone on any of the forums try it. I will be testing this when I finally get under my car tomorrow.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c204/WRXD/method2.jpg

4. This is yet another method I have seen other people use on the MS3 and some have reported that this does indeed work. It is important to note that this method now turns the MBC into a bleeder valve, meaning that when its fully closed, it will run off wastegate pressure only and as the valve is opened it will add boost. I am skeptical that this is a safe or accurate way to use a MBC on this car.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c204/WRXD/method3.jpg

[shucky]

I tried method 3 with my turbosmart mbc. However, I was told it would NOT work hooking up the outlet port on the mbc to the turbo inlet. In order for the turbosmart to run as a bleeder, the outlet port had to be capped. Only line running to the mbc was the line from the top of the wastegate to the inlet of the mbc. I did not like this setup and could not dial in any more than about 17psi no matter what I did. Your "traditional mbc" setup is what most folks do with their turbosmart. Although I have heard some mbc's just do not work on this car, why I dont know. I ran mine "in line" with the factory solenoid. Refering to the line that runs from the top of the WG to the factory bcs. Remove that. Run a new line from the open port on the bcs to the inlet on your mbc. Run a new line from the outlet of your mbc to the top of the WG. This setup worked pretty nice. Except even with a map clamp the ecu after about 2 weeks started to lower boost a bit. I've heard after a while of raising boost via the mbc the ecu would eventually stop adjusting. I didn't leave mine on long enough, but it did seem to stop lowering boost after about a month. I would say give this a shot with your mbc and if it doesn't work I'd say go with a turbosmart boost t. Proven to work.

[Aaron@JSC]

I tried method 3 with my turbosmart mbc. However, I was told it would NOT work hooking up the outlet port on the mbc to the turbo inlet. In order for the turbosmart to run as a bleeder, the outlet port had to be capped. Only line running to the mbc was the line from the top of the wastegate to the inlet of the mbc. I did not like this setup and could not dial in any more than about 17psi no matter what I did. Your "traditional mbc" setup is what most folks do with their turbosmart. Although I have heard some mbc's just do not work on this car, why I dont know. I ran mine "in line" with the factory solenoid. Refering to the line that runs from the top of the WG to the factory bcs. Remove that. Run a new line from the open port on the bcs to the inlet on your mbc. Run a new line from the outlet of your mbc to the top of the WG. This setup worked pretty nice. Except even with a map clamp the ecu after about 2 weeks started to lower boost a bit. I've heard after a while of raising boost via the mbc the ecu would eventually stop adjusting. I didn't leave mine on long enough, but it did seem to stop lowering boost after about a month. I would say give this a shot with your mbc and if it doesn't work I'd say go with a turbosmart boost t. Proven to work.

I know that running the MBC in line with the solenoid is incorrect, for exactly what you said-- eventually the ECU 'learns' around the upped boost and brings it back down. Any way you slice it, the factory solenoid gets deleted with an aftermarket boost control system.

It is getting more and more apparant that 'some' boost controllers don't work on the MS3 but I want to know why...it doesn't make any sense. Marc Hallman from Hallman boost controllers is supposed to be giving me a call on this but I have not heard from him yet.

[protur03]

I have the turboxs MBC, and for some reason i cant get a consistant boost reading. Evey time i adjust to positive it will do it but then as im WOT going up the rpm's the boost just bleeds away... I installed it right, using the lower nipple WGA to compressor, and capped both the top nipple on the WGA and the solinoid nipple it connects to. everythin is nice and tight so this really should not be happening.

[ericrapp]

I know that running the MBC in line with the solenoid is incorrect, for exactly what you said-- eventually the ECU 'learns' around the upped boost and brings it back down. Any way you slice it, the factory solenoid gets deleted with an aftermarket boost control system.

It is getting more and more apparant that 'some' boost controllers don't work on the MS3 but I want to know why...it doesn't make any sense. Marc Hallman from Hallman boost controllers is supposed to be giving me a call on this but I have not heard from him yet. I hope he does. I sure would like to better understand theory and application<Marc. hello sir

[Aaron@JSC]

Ok, I figured this out after searching on a Mazda6 forum. I have tried this method and it works perfectly.

The problem is that the MS3/MS6 turbocharger has a resrictor pill integrated into the compressor nipple, as opposed to most other applications that just have a pill in the vaccum hose that can easily be replaced. From what I understand, the restrictor is used to minimize pressure differential in-line when the factory solenoid is bleeding away excess boost.

When you remove the factory solenoid, this pill is no longer necessary however, on the MS3/MS6 you can not remove it as it is integrated directly into the compressor nipple. Some manual boost controllers compensate for inline restrictor pills, namely the Turbosmart 'boost Tee' and the TurboXS line of MBCs. This explains why some brands 'work' on the MS3 and others don't. Hallman Pro boost controllers will NOT work in the traditional compressor/wastegate plumbing, and I beleive people are also having the same problems with JoeP and Forge MBCs.

The answer is to run the boost input source directly from the manifold rather than the compressor. I teed my Hallman MBC into my BPV line and connected the output to the lower WGA nipple with the top nipple capped off. You also need to cap off the compressor nipple.

Running my MBC this way works perfectly, exactly as it should work and I am getting absolutely NO spikes with the Hallman Pro RX controller.

[shucky]

Thanks for the good info. That was exactly one more method I was going to try before I ditch the idea of a mbc all together.

[Aaron@JSC]

If you think about it, its actually better to run off of the manifold because you are getting an actual manifold pressure source rather than a compressor source which can be 1-2 psi higher than what the motor is actually seeing.

This means that if your boost source is from the compressor and your boost gauge is tapped at the manifold, you will actually be running 1-2 PSI less boost than you think you are with your MBC.

Marc Hallman, the owner of Hallman boost controllers, confirmed this is a perfectly safe alternative to running from the compressor.

[ericrapp]

Thanks for the tech talk Aaron

[bnoon]

Thanks for the tech talk Aaron


(bowdown) Saved and printed this whole thread!

Are you using the boost cut defender then too in order to get the higher boost? Or are there other options?

[Aaron@JSC]

(bowdown) Saved and printed this whole thread!

Are you using the boost cut defender then too in order to get the higher boost? Or are there other options?

at this time I am not, I am only planning on boosting 16-17lbs, but I haven't exactly cranked it up that high yet.

to be honest, boost cut defender and map clamps kind of scare me. I might try the TurboXS FCD, which actually allows you keep the boost cut safety rope but raise it up to 20 or 25 psi, so you can boost wherever you want in that range. It is also a very good idea to get a wideband AFR gauge to keep an eye on air/fuel ratios when under full throttle boosting. Too lean and pop goes the weasel.

FWIW, I had a high 9:1 AFR at WOT with 14-15lbs, which is still rich.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

at this time I am not, I am only planning on boosting 16-17lbs, but I haven't exactly cranked it up that high yet.

to be honest, boost cut defender and map clamps kind of scare me. I might try the TurboXS FCD, which actually allows you keep the boost cut safety rope but raise it up to 20 or 25 psi, so you can boost wherever you want in that range. It is also a very good idea to get a wideband AFR gauge to keep an eye on air/fuel ratios when under full throttle boosting. Too lean and pop goes the weasel.

FWIW, I had a high 9:1 AFR at WOT with 14-15lbs, which is still rich.

My understanding of the Mazda systems is that you can't effectively raise boost levels without either a BCD or MAP clamp because if the ECU sees higher than max stock boost it will take steps to protect the engine. Even if you take control of the boost away by putting in an MBC, the engine can cut fuel or close the throttle to protect itself if the boost is what it considers to be too high.
Obviously things like piggybacks and reflashes will do the job also, but something needs to prevent the ECU from interfering.

[LBV]

IIRC the car needs to see 18 psi for 2 seconds for boost cut to occur, so if you can tune the MBC for 17-18 psi you should be good with the stock solenoid still on and no BCD required.

At some point, I'm gonna try this new hook-up and give it a go.

[Aaron@JSC]

IIRC the car needs to see 18 psi for 2 seconds for boost cut to occur, so if you can tune the MBC for 17-18 psi you should be good with the stock solenoid still on and no BCD required.

At some point, I'm gonna try this new hook-up and give it a go.

exactly. Yes, if you crank it over 18psi or so the ECU will still see too much boost thought he MAP sensor and cut boost. My point was that if the MBC works well enough with no spiking, you should be able to set it to 16 or 17 and still be ok.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

So if you wanted to hook up an MBC and an aftermarket wastegate actuator, you should connect the input of the MBC to a manifold pressure source, the output of the MBC to the input of the actuator, and cap everything else off?
Finally, set the MBC as low as it will go and slowly bring it up to the desired Boost level.
I suppose to some extent this would depend on the design of the MBC.

[Aaron@JSC]

So if you wanted to hook up an MBC and an aftermarket wastegate actuator, you should connect the input of the MBC to a manifold pressure source, the output of the MBC to the input of the actuator, and cap everything else off?
Finally, set the MBC as low as it will go and slowly bring it up to the desired Boost level.
I suppose to some extent this would depend on the design of the MBC.

yes that sounds exactly right. Where did you find an aftermarket WGA for the ms3?

[shucky]

Running w/out a map clamp or BCD wont last long IMO. Due to varying load based upon what gear your in you will see higher boost readings thus causing the very cut we are talking about. You may set your mbc that doesn't supposedly spike to 17psi in 3rd or even 4th gear testing, but you will see higher boost in 5th+.

[ericrapp]

yes that sounds exactly right. Where did you find an aftermarket WGA for the ms3?yes or have you stepped up with your turbo and doing an outtie wastegate, you old guys can be sneaky, I hear. Yes i am talking to you mid life

[Aaron@JSC]

Running w/out a map clamp or BCD wont last long IMO. Due to varying load based upon what gear your in you will see higher boost readings thus causing the very cut we are talking about. You may set your mbc that doesn't supposedly spike to 17psi in 3rd or even 4th gear testing, but you will see higher boost in 5th+.

thats true, I am right at about 17psi in 5th and 6th, but I don't hit that in the lower gears. I hit like 10 in first, 14 in 2nd and 15-16 in 3rd and 16-17 in 4-5-6.

My point is, with the stock boost control when I punched it in 6th or downshift from 6-5 and punched it, by boost would go up to like 20psi and then settle down around 15.

Now if I do the same thing, it will just climb up to 17 and hold, no spike, no boost cut.

plus the decrease in lag with the MBC is incredible compared to stock.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

yes or have you stepped up with your turbo and doing an outtie wastegate, you old guys can be sneaky, I hear. Yes I am talking to you mid life

What are you talking about? (angel)

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill.

...or I could just be a smooth old man who knows how to get on the good side of product development at a certain company that probably would prefer to remain nameless until ready to release their new WGA. The package arrived Tuesday afternoon. I won't have time to put it in until this weekend, as too much stuff needs to come out of the engine bay to make that swap for me to do it in the evening in my mosquito infested driveway. (slap, "ouch!", clang, "where the hell did that bolt go?") Not my idea of fun.
I won't tease, especially since it really isn't a secret anyway. It's Forge. They need to make sure the more basic components can be installed by average guys like me doing it themselves and that everything fits properly. I'm lucky enough to be a test mule for them. I can say that it is a seriously quality looking piece of machining. With a little luck I'll get it in this weekend and have a preliminary review for you on Monday.
Also, the rumor that they are working on a new, quieter BPV is absolutely true. I have the prototype and it is a nice looking piece too. The driveability is excellent, the same improvement in turbo response that the current unit has over the stock piece with a satisfying whoosh when it releases but no annoying ping. A little bit more tweaking is needed as far as making it "drop in" like the current unit does, but they are very close to having it ready for prime time.

[LBV]

(slap, "ouch!", clang, "where the hell did that bolt go?")

LMAO!

Been there done that on the bolt comment ... gotta have a magnet on a stick tool nearby if you work on cars. LOL

[shucky]

Aaron, sounds like your setup is working out for you then. What other mods do you have might I ask? I have to say from first hand experience, adding a map clamp does indeed reduce bottom end torque + spool up. Its something that is never talked about or brought up, but it is true. The MAP is tied in to many other systems and by clamping it you certainly will notice a difference. Sure you can run much higher boost, but for me personally, it wasn't the effect I was looking for in a daily driven car. The car sounds different during WOT as well. Basically if you spend your life at WOT you may be happy. But truth be told, for me at least, I found I wasn't having as much fun in my MS3 after the MBC and map clamp. It was great under WOT, but the bottom end torque suffered. And just tooling around town, it was the instant torque and rather large bottom end of the MS3 I missed the most. I removed the MBC first and left my map clamp on for about 3 weeks. I noticed I lost a bit up top, but the low down torque was still missing. This weekend I removed my map clamp. After about 3 days of the ECU getting back to normal, my car feels great again. Huge bottom end torque, instant throttle response, etc. I have an ETS 3.5, MS CAI, CS RP, and lilguy CDFP. I spike to about 19-20 psi and she falls to 16 or so. I feel I achieved similar results of a mbc + map clamp by adding the ETS TMIC but also keeping my low end grunt and instant throttle response. Right now I'm really happy. Just sharing my experience with you. Good luck with yours, Mike

[Aaron@JSC]

Interesting, I have not heard that before.

I wonder if those problems would be averted if you went with the ATP BCD, since it just bleeds excess boost.

The truth is I have no yet decided if I want to keep the MBC yet, it was really just something to experiment with to kill time while I wait for the Cobb Acessport to come out with their protune software.

I would be interested to find out WHY you lose low end torque on the car with a MAP clamp. It seems like it would come up more in the EM vs. MBC debates on all the forums.

I added my mods to my sig.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

.

I would be interested to find out WHY you lose low end torque on the car with a MAP clamp. It seems like it would come up more in the EM vs. MBC debates on all the forums.

I added my mods to my sig.

There are two kinds of MAP clamps. Some (these are the minority I hope) simply clamp the voltage to a certain level and it stays there. I can see how this would screw things up down low. The good designs put an upper limit on the reading so when you have lower boost the ECU sees that lower reading but it never goes higher than what you set it to.
I saw one that not only has this type of function but also has a second setting so that if the boost gets too high for whatever reason, it will allow the full reading to come through so the car can protect itself. For example you could set it so as the boost builds, the ECU sees the accurate reading until it hits say 13 psi, or whatever works for you and never sees a higher level as it builds. But with the second setting, if for whatever reason (boost controller failure?) the level goes higher than say 19, it lets that reading go through so the computer can respond to the high boost level.

[shucky]

Thanks Mid Life. I would say a majority of folks with map clamps all have ones that simply clamp the voltage at a lower level, me included. Even though I didn't opt for an "el cheapo" clamp, I have a splitsec VC2.5, it operates in this way. Although my clamp does allow the ECU to see the lower readings up to the set value of the map clamp, I still experienced what I described. I think the MAP is tied into many, many systems and screwing with it does have an effect. As I said, the car even sounds different during WOT along with the reduced response/torque. I haven't actually seen 1 single MS3 owner run a clamp with all the bells and whistles like Mid Life describes. I know Turbosmart and Turbo XS make units like this. It isn't ever talked about because those in the "in crowd" who support mbc+map clamps wont ever admit to it or dont care because they floor their cars at every stop sign. Unfortunately, those with piggybacks fall into this category as those have built in map clamps. Yet another reason why you'll never hear people admit it, because you have a large group of supporters for piggybacks as well. I have nothing to hide and no agenda other than sharing my experiences. Although the ATP BCD is a mechanical piece and would not cause what I'm describing, it IS a boost leak nonetheless, and for that I'm not a fan of that route either. Ideal way IMO is with an ECU flash, but so far none of those are perfect yet either. All in due time I suppose lol...

Dont get me wrong, the BCD and map clamps "work" and lots of folks are happy with them, but in my case, it just wasn't what I was looking for on a DD.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I learned something from this thread (okay, a few things), mostly about plumbing. But I did not realize that if your boost increase target is mild (couple of pounds, no more) you can get away without a cheater. I will probably hook up my MBC this weekend now that I know this.

[shucky]

Yeah its definitely possible. With the ETS I've spiked 21 and held 16-17 at times with no issues / no cut. A key ingredient for me was the lilguy CDFP. No power drop at 5500 rpm and boost holds longer as the throttle stays open longer.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Yeah its definitely possible. With the ETS I've spiked 21 and held 16-17 at times with no issues / no cut. A key ingredient for me was the lilguy CDFP. No power drop at 5500 rpm and boost holds longer as the throttle stays open longer.

Mine qualified for (and got) the replacement pump and reflash, so with luck I won't have any problems either.

[ericrapp]

Very pleasant, gentleman. I have the pump and flash 3.5 and full cork with Forge recirc. I have cut at some aggressive throttling and need help till the car is tuned. So Midlife I am probably older than you and willing to sacrifice some of my children to be a part of the Forge waste gate experiment. That is where this all heads to. The wastegate. I am not going to increase turbo sizing this season. So can I be a mule too! I get 21lbs and the cut, shucky. and hold 17 also with no problem.

[LBV]

Doesn't the SplitSec map clamp allow you to alter the voltage so it equates to a certain boost? I believe it does and if that's the case, just adjust until the ECU (via a dashhawk or similar) sees 15-16 psi or so and it shouldn't (in theory) mess with your low-end.

I can see a clamp at say 10 psi messing things up, but if you set it close to stock psi and then set the MBC to 18-19, things should be fine, no?

[Aaron@JSC]

I am really curious if it is possible to use the ATP BCD and plumb it so it recirculates back into the intake, like the stock solenoid does.

Keep in mind that ALL boost controllers leak boost. Its pretty much how they function. Even ball and spring MBCs have a small port that leaks boost off after it reaches the desired level, otherwise the excess boost would back up in the outlet/wastegate connection and cause the ball and spring valve to hold itself closed.

[shucky]

Eric - Perhaps your full Cork setup put you over the edge with getting cut because I dont, but I only have CS RP. Although it seems we see similar boost.

LBV - Yes, the splitsec allows adjustment, and the ECU will see boost up to the set point of the map clamp, however as mentioned, its not the set point that causes the missing low end grunt issue, its running a map clamp in general that does. I cant explain it and do not have a more technical answer, it just does.

[ericrapp]

Alright, Shucky. I thought the consistently higher flow from Tbe and big tmIC flow was the culprit for running up boost, thanks. But any hoo how do i keep the motor intact till I apply a tune. Boost controller and boost clamp? I am driving very conservatively with my foot. Thank goodness at partial throttle she still out runs most. But I just do not have the maturity to not mash the tin when i am fender to fender with a 350 z and such. I feel i should just walk him/her and want to floor it but I cannot. Man, patience is a virtue they say but I don't have the time. I need help for about one more month. i am totally fine with running less boost. Can i adjust the wastegate actuator rod? thanks. Eric

[.HYPE.]

im a little skeptical about using a boost controller... can someone tell me what a safe number is to set at so i dont face quicker wear or anything like that

[stars.eg6]

im a little skeptical about using a boost controller... can someone tell me what a safe number is to set at so i dont face quicker wear or anything like that

everyone has mixed opinions. i keep mine at 19 psi but some people say thats too high. its just something you have to figure out yourself around here.

[.HYPE.]

everyone has mixed opinions. i keep mine at 19 psi but some people say thats too high. its just something you have to figure out yourself around here.

thanks for the response

[ericrapp]

Just learned how to plumb to wastegate and reduce real boost. Should be a good education from the tuner. Hopefully this weekend I would like to stay safe at 15-16 till I am sure about some other factors. Boost controllers, can they decrease boost from natural flow or only increase?

[Aaron@JSC]

Just learned how to plumb to wastegate and reduce real boost. Should be a good education from the tuner. Hopefully this weekend I would like to stay safe at 15-16 till I am sure about some other factors. Boost controllers, can they decrease boost from natural flow or only increase?

It can only decrease boost to the pressure that the wastegate opens at, so no lower than 10-12 psi.

[ericrapp]

Thanks A. I was wondering, is our wastegate is adjustable manually, with the actuator rod? I am sorry to be not so wise to turbos

[07Speedfreak]

Aaron can you draw another picture of the correct way to do the whole connecting \plumbing of the boost controller please.

Thanks

[kraz3y]

Ok, I figured this out after searching on a Mazda6 forum. I have tried this method and it works perfectly.

The problem is that the MS3/MS6 turbocharger has a resrictor pill integrated into the compressor nipple, as opposed to most other applications that just have a pill in the vaccum hose that can easily be replaced. From what I understand, the restrictor is used to minimize pressure differential in-line when the factory solenoid is bleeding away excess boost.

When you remove the factory solenoid, this pill is no longer necessary however, on the MS3/MS6 you can not remove it as it is integrated directly into the compressor nipple. Some manual boost controllers compensate for inline restrictor pills, namely the Turbosmart 'boost Tee' and the TurboXS line of MBCs. This explains why some brands 'work' on the MS3 and others don't. Hallman Pro boost controllers will NOT work in the traditional compressor/wastegate plumbing, and I beleive people are also having the same problems with JoeP and Forge MBCs.

The answer is to run the boost input source directly from the manifold rather than the compressor. I teed my Hallman MBC into my BPV line and connected the output to the lower WGA nipple with the top nipple capped off. You also need to cap off the compressor nipple.

Running my MBC this way works perfectly, exactly as it should work and I am getting absolutely NO spikes with the Hallman Pro RX controller.

would this still work if my bpv line is already teed for a boost gauge?

[stars.eg6]

would this still work if my bpv line is already teed for a boost gauge?

yes it will. i have both my mbc and boost gauge hooked up to T's on the bpv line.

[Aaron@JSC]

yes it will. i have both my mbc and boost gauge hooked up to T's on the bpv line.


I did this too, and it works. However, my boost gauges gets some erratic vibration in the needle at WOT. I am considering using a different source.

here is a diagram of exactly how my MBC is hooked up:


http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c204/WRXD/mbcinstall.jpg

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I did this too, and it works. However, my boost gauges gets some erratic vibration in the needle at WOT. I am considering using a different source.

here is a diagram of exactly how my MBC is hooked up:




How about editing that diagram to add some blue lines that show the stock connections as well for comparison purposes?

[07Speedfreak]

Thanks

[kraz3y]

so you have to cap the turbo and top of the waste gate?

[hyperpasta]

I am really curious if it is possible to use the ATP BCD and plumb it so it recirculates back into the intake, like the stock solenoid does.

Keep in mind that ALL boost controllers leak boost. Its pretty much how they function. Even ball and spring MBCs have a small port that leaks boost off after it reaches the desired level, otherwise the excess boost would back up in the outlet/wastegate connection and cause the ball and spring valve to hold itself closed.

Hi Arron and thanks for your help today!

I'm running the ATP boots cut defender. Considering the flow or CFM of the intake system and the size of the blow off port of the defender, it isn't going to do squat in lowering your overall boost pressures by bleeding off pressure. The turbo is pushing way too much volume to make a noticeable difference to the motor's performance as a source of leakage. It bleeds just enough to keep the MAP sensor from doing it's job. When I get my Dash Hawk I'll look for a negative spike in pressure to see if it's even noticeable on a graph. I truly doubt I'll see it on a graph.


Also on the Hallman MBC the small bleed hole in the barb on the wastegate side of the MBC is to allow the wastegate to close after it's pressurized and the boost is shut off by the ball when the intake pressure drops. If there wasn't a source to bleed that line pressure off, the wastegate would remain open when the ball shuts the pressure side of the port off. It's a captive pressure line in theory, without that bleeder barb.

Here as well the small hole plays no noticable affect in the overall boot pressure build up as the total volume out weights the volume of leakage.

Just my two cents......$0.02