Honestly, now

[whatthefunk]

Recently purchased a purty little '03 P5, and I've spent many an hour perusing the many interesting posts in this joint re: performance mods. I'm committed to replacing the stock feet, and I'll likely drop it a bit, as well. Down the road I may consider a turbo, but for the next year or two, no. My main question: some posters seem convinced that it's just flat stoopid to spend $ on N/A mods for the 2.0, since the motor and tranny are scraping the ceiling already. (My '03 is the Sport Auto, which I understand is yet another strike against me in the quest to be quick). Some say a pulley set, header, CAI, MP3 ECU, motor mounts, custom exhaust, etc (or combo of them all) can make a noticeable difference in acceleration. I know this has been addressed many times (especially in older posts that don't factor in more recent developments), but I'd like to see some straight answers from folks on this. Have you spent $ on engine perf mods? If so, which offer the best bang for the buck? And what did that "bang" translate into, in terms of real-world light-to-light and 1/4-mile times? Have you bested cars that once smoked you, or is your p5 still a relative pig? If you have bested cars in a relatively straight line, can you give me examples? GTIs? Civic SIs? Crown Vics?

Lastly, if you had it to do all over again would you spend the money elsewhere (Victoria's secret booty-covers for the girlyfriend, cold beer, 401K, etc), or did the mods HONESTLY make an appreciable difference in your P5's giddy-up, and your enjoyment factor?

Listen, I'm very happy with the car's looks, handling and build. I knew it was an anemic straight-line performer going into the deal, and if you vets tell me it's meant to be a great-handling econo box but never a light-to-light sprinter, I'm fine with that. I'm a fan, despite its mini-van-esque acceleration. I'd just like to see folks take a stand on spending $ for perf mods, and supplement their takes up with some hard facts or at least anecdotal input. Please.

Appreciate the feedback, as always.

[808MP5]

If i had the chance to do it all over again... i would have bought a turbo kit, forged internals, and a coke

[daonly1around]

leave the power mods for stock right now. Work on the suspension, either save up for a nice coil over setup, and some upgraded sway bars, or go with a strut and spring setup like the tokico illuminas with eibach pro kit or other springs. If upgrading the sway bars, i would suggest just doing the rear as a lot of MSP owners complain that the larger sway bar in the front creates more over steer than what would be desired. And down the road after you get used to drive the car on the limits with stock power, look into a turbo kit, or piecing together a kit

[whatthefunk]

Good stuff. A question: can someone tell me (and I realize that this is a general question that does not account for differing kits, boost rates, etc) what a moderate turbo kit will do for 0-60 and 1/4-mile numbers? Also, doesn't the turbo kit require (if done correctly) significant mods to the internals?

And daonly1around, by saying that you'd save up and go turbo, are you implying that N/A mods just aren't worth the return on investment, since the gains aren't significant?

[808MP5]

i really don't know much about turbo but i do know the mazdaspeed has a stock turbo and the same motor as the regular pro5.
That being said i do believe you can boost 5-7psi safely.

[daonly1around]

Good stuff. A question: can someone tell me (and I realize that this is a general question that does not account for differing kits, boost rates, etc) what a moderate turbo kit will do for 0-60 and 1/4-mile numbers? Also, doesn't the turbo kit require (if done correctly) significant mods to the internals?

And daonly1around, by saying that you'd save up and go turbo, are you implying that N/A mods just aren't worth the return on investment, since the gains aren't significant?

yep, with a FULL exhaust, mp3 ecu and cold air intake, you might see a gain of about roughly what... 20 HP MAYBE at the wheels, and probably have spent ab out 700-1000 on all this, and you can piece together a kit for sometimes less than 1500 if you stalk the for sale forums and what not and just use the mazdaspeed protege ecu and do it your self intercooler

[whatthefunk]

Ouch. Not much punch for the $. And a turbo at 5-7 psi would create what kind of HP gains? Worth turbo'ing a sport auto? Appreciate your take on the N/A mods.

[ProtoType5]

Unless you absolutley LOVE the P5...which I do...the money spent would be better spent on simply buying the MSP...

You will spend far more money making the P5 comparable to the MSP than just purchasing the MSP from the get-go...

As for doing it again...Suspension..-yes...power/hp/engine- not so much...

Unless you are ready to put in 2-3K into the engine/transmission/turbo...you'll not see great hp results...but the header alone, will make it MUCH more fun to drive....key is FUN...not FAST....

[daonly1around]

Ouch. Not much punch for the $. And a turbo at 5-7 psi would create what kind of HP gains? Worth turbo'ing a sport auto? Appreciate your take on the N/A mods.

depends on what kinda management and what supporting mods, and what size turbo

[808MP5]

Engine Mods:
-OBX headers
-AEM Short Ram Intake
-Shane Racing Cam Gears
-Shane Racing Light Weight Crank Pully
-JDM Mazdaspeed Intake Cam Shaft
-JDM Mazdaspeed Exhaust Cam Shaft
-Nology Sparkplug Wires
-Indigo Light Weight Alternator Pully
-Indigo Light Weight Water Pump Pully
-SLS Front Motor Mount
-SLS Driver Side Motor Mount
-AWR Rear Motor Mount
-Street Unit Driver Side Motor Mount
-626 Intake Manifold
-Bored Throttle Body

Fuel Management Mods:
-Split Second Air Fuel Controller
-Perrin Fuel Rail

Transmission/Drivetrain/Shifter Mods:
-Fidanza 7.5lb Light Weight Flywheel
-Act StageI Heavy Duty Clutch Plate
-Exedy Street Disc
-Goodline SS Clutch Line
-TWM Short Shifter
-TWM Shift Link Bushings

Exhaust Mods:
-Tanabe G-Series Medallion Exhaust
-Custom 2.25" Pipes From The Cat

all this and i doubt im putting more than 120hp to the ground...
and for the price of all this i could have gone turbo

but if you really want the car to be "funner" to drive... do the suspension mods... my car handles like its on rails

[whatthefunk]

Prototype wrote: "Unless you absolutley LOVE the P5...which I do...the money spent would be better spent on simply buying the MSP"

Point taken...but I chose the P5 because it cost me about $9K less than an MP3, and I needed an auto for my wife (it's her car). If money and tranny were no object, I'd be in a Speed3. I drove one and it knocked my socks off. Pulled like crazy.

808MP5, I appreciate the honest take.

[gottacatchup]

For the record many owners have turbo'd sport autos with few to no problems. Just be aware that you won't be able to simply piece together the MSP system and use that because of your transmission.

[Katya4me]

I was looking through Bazooka Joe's old posts (auto turboed P5), and it sounds like you'd be laying out $4K+ for a strong turbo P5 setup and that is keeping the boost under 8. I'd recommend just focusing on the suspension and saving your pennies for another project car.

[P-Funk!]

^werd.

Like you said in your OP - you would be satisifed with not being a light to light racer...

Why did i bother with the engine mods? I had to. It is 'me' & i could not help it if i tried... And the bump in performance is noticable to me.

Cruise the 4sales - you will find the bargains that make it worth it.

[StealthWyvern]

As far as NA goes the header by far is the best bang for your buck. The CAI , solid motor mounts and pullies I more then likely wouldn't do again. Well the motor mounts I might try inserts next if at all. The CAI all i noticed was mainly noise but it does sound good. I might do that agian if I could find a good price on a CAI but not at the price of a K&N intake. The pullies look good but I haven't noticed any difference in proformence. (I still haven't installed hte PS pulley and dont have a cracnk pulley)

Edit: I have a catless midpipe tha I just purchased in the fore sale section so maybe that will make a difference. We will see.

[whatthefunk]

Thanks, all. Stealth, appreciate the perspective on the N/A mods and their impact. Seems a lot of folks would pick a header as the one mod that produces performance gains you can actually notice. Katya, as for a turbo set-up, I'll consider one down the line. $4K is nothing to sneeze at, but the P5s are unique-looking, handle well and are dependable. If a turbo will breathe life into them and make them competitive in straight-line jousts with most other cars, seems worth it, to me, to address the one glaring shortcoming in what is otherwise a great little car.

[CantCMe]

The turbo will give it more life for sure. I just turboed my Pro ES and it feels like a different car to me. But now I have more problems(lol2).

[kura808]

hmm some1 forgot to mention that the mp3 ecu dont work on autos. haha he has a sportauto xP

if ur considering a turbo setup, dont get a header haha. just save up ur money for a turbo instead of wasting ur time wit N/A mods.

i think suspension is the thing that makes this car come alive. i'm gonna try work on that for now hehe.

if ur bored, read a C&D review hehe. i like this review xP
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3809515&postcount=1

kinda gives ya an idea of our handling i guess

[Mazda P5 driver]

Recently purchased a purty little '03 P5, and I've spent many an hour perusing the many interesting posts in this joint re: performance mods. I'm committed to replacing the stock feet, and I'll likely drop it a bit, as well. Down the road I may consider a turbo, but for the next year or two, no. My main question: some posters seem convinced that it's just flat stoopid to spend $ on N/A mods for the 2.0, since the motor and tranny are scraping the ceiling already. (My '03 is the Sport Auto, which I understand is yet another strike against me in the quest to be quick). Some say a pulley set, header, CAI, MP3 ECU, motor mounts, custom exhaust, etc (or combo of them all) can make a noticeable difference in acceleration. I know this has been addressed many times (especially in older posts that don't factor in more recent developments), but I'd like to see some straight answers from folks on this. Have you spent $ on engine perf mods? If so, which offer the best bang for the buck? And what did that "bang" translate into, in terms of real-world light-to-light and 1/4-mile times? Have you bested cars that once smoked you, or is your p5 still a relative pig? If you have bested cars in a relatively straight line, can you give me examples? GTIs? Civic SIs? Crown Vics?

Lastly, if you had it to do all over again would you spend the money elsewhere (Victoria's secret booty-covers for the girlyfriend, cold beer, 401K, etc), or did the mods HONESTLY make an appreciable difference in your P5's giddy-up, and your enjoyment factor?

Listen, I'm very happy with the car's looks, handling and build. I knew it was an anemic straight-line performer going into the deal, and if you vets tell me it's meant to be a great-handling econo box but never a light-to-light sprinter, I'm fine with that. I'm a fan, despite its mini-van-esque acceleration. I'd just like to see folks take a stand on spending $ for perf mods, and supplement their takes up with some hard facts or at least anecdotal input. Please.

Appreciate the feedback, as always.

it's a waste of time and money.

get a faster car out of the box.

get a wrx or something.

even with the turbo it's still slow as hell and you won't be "killing" anyone.

example stage 1 tune on my 2.5 liter is pushing 16psi tapering to 13.5. stage 2 would be 18psi tapering to 15 at 7k rpms. a protune would give even more power. stage 2 is m3 territory.

you think 7 on a 2.0 is gonna dop anything? ask the gli i ass whooped the other day. i have the basic auto to boot. i ran from him in every gear. 3rd was even worse.

i have zero regrets dropping the p5 for my legacy. i suggest you drop the idea and just get a better car. get a used evo if you wanna crak 11's on the stock turbo.

oooh and the suspension guys...stock sucked badly and even stock power in an auto would overwhelm it. awd with a lot of boost mid corner is an eye opener.

i am being serious man...get a different car. check out the new pontiac g8 gt. 361hp for 30k.

[niky]

30k is pretty far off from just adding 1-4k for mods.

While an AWD car will be fun, the P5, properly set up, can be just as fun. Or funner, depending on whether your definition of fun is about tail-happy throttle mashing or the ability to dance the car round a corner.

If I had to do it all again:

engine mounts - no

clutch - well, you don't have to worry about that, do you? :p

shocks - yes

springs - no (I had to... my stocks were shot)

intake - yeah, probably

full catless exhaust - no... I'd go for somethign smaller

headers - I'd stop f*cking around and just settle on one... had too many to count.

cams - I'll think about it. With the twiggies being off the market, good luck finding good cams.

port n polish - only if I had to rebuild. Wouldn't take the head off again if I don't have to

engine management - yes, yes, yes... hell yes.

---

Other stuff you would do NA would be the 626 manifold (yes, it's a bump. Not convinced it's worth the moolah) and high compression. High compression works, I've seen it. Cams work, but you've got to get the right grind.

The issue in the US is the lack of good tuning options unless you go standalone. The standalone ECU allows you to change ignition timing. With full control of ignition and fuel, you can gain up to 15 ponies in the midrange... really important on an automatic.

If "bang" for the buck is all you're after... header, mild exhaust and engine management. Everything else is a lot of $$$ for your hp.

A turbo is infinitely easier to get power out of... but you'll need to install extra cooling for the tranny. At 8 psi, you'll be making maybe 180-190 whp, which is more than enough on the street for a little "fun". And good handling won't require a ton of parts... just a stiffer rear sway bar and [bmaybe[/b] a welded LSD.

Personally, going down the stiffer, lower, grippier route for handling is just a never ending battle. If fun on the road is what you're after, look at what makes the old Miata great. It's not too low, it's not really very grippy, it's not stiff (literally... the chassis has the rigidity of a wet noodle). What makes it a joy to drive is the balance. With the proper parts matching, suspension tuning and some weight reduction, you can have a suspension that's stock comfortable yet very nimble. The Protege already has the tip-in portion of cornering correct, you just need to tweak the rear a bit to cure the mid-corner understeer.

----

True, if you want a car that'll make a ton of power, you could get something else, but even just 130 whp is fun on a Proty.

[Mazda P5 driver]

True, if you want a car that'll make a ton of power, you could get something else, but even just 130 whp is fun on a Proty.


what is "fun"? in my I mode i make more awhp than 130. that is not "fun". S# from the hole is fun. 2800rpm launch with zero wheelspin is fun. pulling off the line against a charger is "fun".

for me it's watching a g35 coupe trying to outrun me and failing.

it's knowing that in the wet i can get a full launch.



also the stock power even with an auto you will NEED a lsd. i could not imagine adding more power without one. that's not within the 1-4k budget. you guys always forget there is other stuff down the road. will you need a tranny cooler? will the tarnny take the power? dyno tuning...

what kind of turbo? slow spool? headers, downpipe, inter-cooling?

it is much easier and cheaper to simply get a car with it already there.

[niky]

Well, fun is all relative. I can honestly say I've had about as much fun in a stock Honda Fit or a Mazda Miata as in any turbocharged car. All priorities, actually. That's why you've got to know what you want. If all he wants is a little more oomph, it's doable. If he wants a rip-snorting, powerful car, then, by all means, he should go out and get something that's got a turbo already.

[StealthWyvern]

to me fun is how you drive it and if it puts a smile on your face..... not the fact that your car maybe or is slower then most becuase lets face it theirs always someone that can hand you your ass no matter how much crash to drop into you car.

A miata can keep up with vipers in auto-x courses so power isnt everything. Grant it helps but its not everything.

[maxchao]

I agree with the part that most times to get faster it is cheaper to just change rides, but modding gives you the feeling of accomplishment that getting a faster car doesn't.
And yea fun is really personal. I don't wanna get flamed but in my opinion drag race is really boring. Hearing tire squealing during a turn is much better, and it gets better with smoke, but FWD P5 can't do it.
Skill > Speed

Josh

[kura808]

whats so great about having massive power yet u cant take a turn xD

take ur car to the twisties and u'll see what we mean

[Cellerator]

If I had to do it again, I wouldn't have bothered with this car... The most I would have done would be short shifter and the bushings and left everything else alone. With the money I would have saved from the mods, I would have spent it elsewhere like a performance driving school instead...

[Mazda P5 driver]

whats so great about having massive power yet u cant take a turn xD

take ur car to the twisties and u'll see what we mean

yeah...

i smoked the back tires on my gt one day taking a short corner too sharp. awd just pulled it in though. hitting peak torque in first mid corner is what happened. i actually had the back end kick out on the p5 once. yeah. doing 50 on a very curvey on-ramp.

did enough to out corner a mazda 3 once. dunno why he tried to race me. the biggest thing i have ever noticed in any car...most people can't drive.

also when pushing the gt too much in a corner it tends to go wide. so what i will do is hold it then right at the end i will pust it to the max and make it go wide at the very very end so i can have as much power coming out without over doing it.

hahahaha

also the p5 doesn't have enough power to even max corners sometimes. in my gt i exceeded the p5 by 10-15 mph because i had plenty power left and still not going wide nor squeeling. so i had more room to go.

it's just 2 different cars. i can cruise at 100 with one hand and no drama and no motor drone. 80 happens at 2800 rpms and i can get over 25mpg. my gf has pulled 26. the p5 was over 30.


just saying...also one thing to keep in mind is...who are you aiming for? hondas? honda what? civic dx? ms3? ms6? suv's? no other reason to add power except for more speed. also keep in mind. the p5 is soo fricken slow most folks won't even notice you trying to "race". my auto was slow as balls.

seriously...who is your target? why? want m3's? get a ms3 and a tune. want hondas? the slow ones? do what you will to the p5.

you will NEED a lsd no matter what. i could break the tires loose on the auto. couldn't imagine it with more power.

[Mazda P5 driver]

I agree with the part that most times to get faster it is cheaper to just change rides, but modding gives you the feeling of accomplishment that getting a faster car doesn't.
And yea fun is really personal. I don't wanna get flamed but in my opinion drag race is really boring. Hearing tire squealing during a turn is much better, and it gets better with smoke, but FWD P5 can't do it.
Skill > Speed

Josh


funny really...when you hurt the neck of your passengers let me know.

modding an already "fast" car is crazy.

it's not boring when stupid people constantly think they can beat you. it's funny as hell when they yell stuff out the windows cause their feelings get hurt.


anyways......

back to my point...I think it's not worth modding the p5. there is nothing going for it. needs lsd, suspension work, better tires, engine work, tranny etc...waaay too much to do imo. it would simply be cheaper/easier to get a used bugeye wrx and modding that.

iv'e said my peace and my opinion...


if you do it...more power to you. do it and do it right.