Canadian issue

[Joe Frito]

I have been contacting dealers in the US to purchase a CX-9 GT and a Mazdaspeed 3, as it is time to replace both mine and the wife's vehicles. I have contacted a few dealers in the Northwest US to inquire about the best pricing to buy both and I have been told that they can't sell me a car because of possible penalties from Mazda. First of all does anyone know if this is true? Secondly does anyone know of any dealers who would still be willing to sell me both?

I am looking for a Galaxy Grey GT loaded (but without entertainment an NAV) as well as a True Red MS3 (also without NAV). Anyone have any thoughts as to what a good cash price would be for both?


Thanks!

[Mazda3]

US dealers are forbidden to sell new Mazda's to non-US residents. If they get caught they will be charged back the entire price of the vehicle. No dealer is going to take this risk.

[EtoileBrilliant]

As one of the 3 or 4 non-US residents who have bought a CX-9 in the US and use this board, let me clarify the point.

Dealers will not knowingly sell a vehicle to non-US residents. When the vehicle is exported US customs inform the manufacturer of the VIN number and the gears start to grind.

I got the wife of a friend to buy the vehicle to buy the vehicle for me. She laid down the groundwork by telling the dealer that her husband was being posted abroad and would probably take the car with her. No problems 9 months later. As I said, don't be explicit in your intentions.

Buying a vehicle in the US as a non-US person is problematic for completely different reasons as most dealers won't sell without proper ID or SS number. Moreover you will need to show proof of a US insurance policy. My advice is to have it titled before its exported as this will ease the process in the country of importation (i.e. it doesn't look stolen)

[CX9 SportOwner]

Why do Canadians want to buy US cars, eh?

[Talbot]

Why do Canadians want to buy US cars, eh?

Probably because it's cheaper.

[Joe Frito]

CX-9 GT fully loaded in Canada has an MSRP of almost $53,000, so you can see why I would want to buy in the US (especially with the CDN$ so close in value). I have actually already imported a US vehicle that I have already sold. It was a Ford, and there were no problems what so ever. I guess Mazda doesn't want us buying in the US because no one would buy one in Canada with the prices so out of whack. I have a cousin living in teh US that I could get to purchase one if that is the way it needs to be done.

[Mazda3]

CX-9 GT fully loaded in Canada has an MSRP of almost $53,000, so you can see why I would want to buy in the US (especially with the CDN$ so close in value). I have actually already imported a US vehicle that I have already sold. It was a Ford, and there were no problems what so ever. I guess Mazda doesn't want us buying in the US because no one would buy one in Canada with the prices so out of whack. I have a cousin living in teh US that I could get to purchase one if that is the way it needs to be done.

Actually Canada is second cheapest country in the world to buy a new car next to the US. So the prices aren't out of whack. Also you can get 0% financing for 60 months in Canada which makes up for almost $10k on $50k loan.

[Joe Frito]

I'm paying cash, so I would actually be saving about $10,000, granted the 0% is nice if you are financing a good portion of the vehicle.The biggest problem I can see with the price difference between Canada and the US is resale, as a used vehicle would only qualify for bank financing, and the US car would still be substantially cheaper.

[Joe Frito]

Actually Canada is second cheapest country in the world to buy a new car next to the US. So the prices aren't out of whack. Also you can get 0% financing for 60 months in Canada which makes up for almost $10k on $50k loan.

0% does save you quite a bit in interest, but vehicles are still subsidized heavily in the US as well. The CX-9 currently has 1.9% financing for 60 months, and how many car makers are offering 0% for as many as 72 months? I look at it this way, for any of the Mazda vehicles that are produced in Japan and shipped to North America, does it cost Mazda any more to bring them to Canada than it does to the US? I find it funny that Ford and Chrysler (Edge, Charger, 300) vehicles cost less in the deep US south than they would cost someone that buys them a block from the plant they are produced in. Manufacturers are starting to subsidize this pricing gap with 0%, or big rebates hoping that the CDN $ will eventually tank so all they need to do is remove the financing and rebates to get the prices back up to where they think they should be. I saved $12,000 on a GT500 (price to my door) versus MSRP in Canada. Until they either shut the border or change they pricing strategy, I won't buy a new vehicle in Canada again.

[Mazda3]

0% does save you quite a bit in interest, but vehicles are still subsidized heavily in the US as well. The CX-9 currently has 1.9% financing for 60 months, and how many car makers are offering 0% for as many as 72 months? I look at it this way, for any of the Mazda vehicles that are produced in Japan and shipped to North America, does it cost Mazda any more to bring them to Canada than it does to the US? I find it funny that Ford and Chrysler (Edge, Charger, 300) vehicles cost less in the deep US south than they would cost someone that buys them a block from the plant they are produced in. Manufacturers are starting to subsidize this pricing gap with 0%, or big rebates hoping that the CDN $ will eventually tank so all they need to do is remove the financing and rebates to get the prices back up to where they think they should be. I saved $12,000 on a GT500 (price to my door) versus MSRP in Canada. Until they either shut the border or change they pricing strategy, I won't buy a new vehicle in Canada again.

Canadians aren't eligble for any finance rates the US are offering so the 1.9% is meaningless.

The 0% in Canada does make the value alot closer vesus someone writing a cheque on a line of credit. Its not always about the sticker price, but the overall value and cost to purchase. Even if you have your own real cash, why not have your $40k-$50k making you 5%-8%-10%-12% or 15% in some sort of investment?

I know my opinion isn't a popular one on these boards, but I'm a big believer in spending my money where I make my money. Canada is the second cheapest country in the world to buy a new car, so really hard to say we are getting gouged.

If you are in the financial situation to be writing cheques for CX-9's, you must make some pretty good money in Canada. What if everyone purchased the services you offer in the US? You would be out of a job and wouldn't be able to buy a car in any country. As well the Canadian economy would collapse. I really feel things are pretty good here right now and really frown on this US buying crap. If I owned a dealer here people would get no service at all on their US cars.

There are some real funny stories around town here on people getting screwed on the US cars they bought and being denied warranty claims and slapped with some hilarious service bills. I find them all very amusing.

[Joe Frito]

I realize that I can't qualify for US financing. My point was that they are subsidizing the prices in the US just as they are in Canada. In regards to money, I have enough investments and I always pay cash for my cars, as I did with my GT500. I did notice however that you didn't have an opinion on why vehicles such as the CX-9, Mazda5, MS3, RX-8, etc that are built in Japan cost more to import here than it does in the US, even with a $ that is comparable as the US $ is to the Yen. In regards to the people having issues with US bought cars, they should do their research before they import. Two weeks after I imported my Shelby (which took me 40 minutes to get through the border) I received an unsolicted letter from Ford of Canada congratulating me on my purchase and explaining the Canadian warranty on the vehicle. I know Ford dealers get paid the same amount for a warranty claim on the US vehicle as they do on tha Cdn one, and I don't imagine that Mazda (owned by Ford) is any different. By your logic, would you be OK if you were refused service from another dealer accross town because you didn't buy your car from them? Or if you were refused service on a road trip from an out of province dealership for the same reason? What is the difference between your CX7 and one that someone else bought from the US if the dealer gets paid their warranty claim?

[Mazda3]

I realize that I can't qualify for US financing. My point was that they are subsidizing the prices in the US just as they are in Canada. In regards to money, I have enough investments and I always pay cash for my cars, as I did with my GT500. I did notice however that you didn't have an opinion on why vehicles such as the CX-9, Mazda5, MS3, RX-8, etc that are built in Japan cost more to import here than it does in the US, even with a $ that is comparable as the US $ is to the Yen. In regards to the people having issues with US bought cars, they should do their research before they import. Two weeks after I imported my Shelby (which took me 40 minutes to get through the border) I received an unsolicted letter from Ford of Canada congratulating me on my purchase and explaining the Canadian warranty on the vehicle. I know Ford dealers get paid the same amount for a warranty claim on the US vehicle as they do on tha Cdn one, and I don't imagine that Mazda (owned by Ford) is any different. By your logic, would you be OK if you were refused service from another dealer accross town because you didn't buy your car from them? Or if you were refused service on a road trip from an out of province dealership for the same reason? What is the difference between your CX7 and one that someone else bought from the US if the dealer gets paid their warranty claim?

Mazda is subsidizing the CX-9's. Last year at this time the rate was 4.9% now it is 0%. I guessing about 95% of their customers use the financing. Actually, if you wait a couple months you may see some cash discount on remaining stock. The trend I'm seeing from Mazda over the last year is that they are pulling the low rates at the end of the year and offering cash back. I'm guessing in the $6k-$7k range. I don't have an inside track on this, it's just an educated guess from what I've observed. My local dealer will be sold out of there 08's before that anyway, but I'm sure there will be product still available down east.

I do understand what you are saying about the US pricing, however second cheapest out of 100's of countries is not too bad.

The automakers that deny warranty on US bought cars have seperate provisions for people on vacation versus CDN residents who spent their money elsewhere. As far as refusing service for people who bought across town, no I wouldn't do that. But I would make sure all of my own customers were taken care of first.

You missed an important part of my post as well:

If you are in the financial situation to be writing cheques for CX-9's, you must make some pretty good money in Canada. What if everyone purchased the services you offer in the US? You would be out of a job and wouldn't be able to buy a car in any country. As well the Canadian economy would collapse.

All I'm saying is, you seem to make a pretty good living here, why not support the economy that supports you? I'm not talking about Mazda, I'm talking about all the people in the sales departments that support our economy here. I'm personally just a big believer in spending my money here where I make it and support the people who support me. Usually try to spend it right here in town when possible.

I'm not trying to be hostile, just stating my opinion.

[Joe Frito]

The company I work for in International, and our overall cost of goods is virtually the same (not a 20% difference) here as it is in the US. I am not saying I don't try to support local if I can, but I'm not about to throw away $10,000 out of my pocket because a company from Japan is charging me $10,000 more for a car that lands in Vancouver versus the same one that lands in Seattle. I may be wrong, but it sounds like you work for a dealer, in which case I better understand why you have your point of view. However my point on service was that the dealer gets paid the same amount for waranty work on the CDN vehicle as the one from the US. If I have to wait an extra day or two to get my vehicle in because the dealer is mad I bought it from the US, than I guess that is the price I will pay. Given the drop in SUV sales and the Canadian members on this board that I know have bought a Mazda from the US, I'm sure there will be a dealer somewhere that would be willing to sell me one. If not, I have competitive options.

[Mazda3]

I don't work for a dealer, I have friends in the car business and strong beliefs about certain things. The local dealer here has had record sales on new Mazda's every month for the last 2 years. If there is a drop in sales it hasn't been noticed in these parts.

I doubt you will find a dealer to sell to you directly. I think most people are importing used Mazda's not new ones. One year old with low mileage. There may be some way to get a new one through a broker, I'm not sure what the exact wording of Mazda's rules are.

[jabba]

If you go to the Edmunds forums, there are whole threads dedicated to canadians buying car in the US. Be careful, you sometime get a canadian dealer in there trying to scare you. But I know 2 canadians that bought cars in the US, no issues to speak of.

Everything cost more in Canada...computers, electronics, etc. Maybe it's because there's less population, maybe it's because Canadians are used to paying more. But a lot of the big chain stores are foreign-owned (mostly american, e.g. Zellers), so everytime you buy something you're giving it away to non-canadians, so if you can get the same car in the US for cheap, I'd go for it.

[CX-9 Czar]

Hey, we live in a supposedly free economy and as far as we know, NAFTA is still valid. Shop where you please!

[Mazda3]

Everything cost more in Canada...computers, electronics, etc. Maybe it's because there's less population, maybe it's because Canadians are used to paying more. But a lot of the big chain stores are foreign-owned (mostly american, e.g. Zellers), so everytime you buy something you're giving it away to non-canadians, so if you can get the same car in the US for cheap, I'd go for it.

It's not about supporting a Japanese company, it's about supporting the 1000's of Canadian's working at dealerships across Canada who pay taxes here and support out economy.

[Mazda3]

Hey, we live in a supposedly free economy and as far as we know, NAFTA is still valid. Shop where you please!

You are totally correct. I was just sharing my opinion and the reasoning behind it. I will help Joe Frito with vehicle questions and problems the same as any other member, which is why I told him to find a good broker to go through if he really wants to buy a new Mazda down south.

[CX-9 Czar]

I considered buying from down south but estimated that the potential hurdles/troubles/downside could cancel the upside. But that was a personal call only. Might work for the other guy, in that case, go for it!

[Joe Frito]

It's not about supporting a Japanese company, it's about supporting the 1000's of Canadian's working at dealerships across Canada who pay taxes here and support out economy.

So what you are saying then, is that when you go shopping you look for goods produced in Canada first regardless of price? I mean if it were really that important to you to support Canadian when you bought your vehicle, why didn't you buy a Ford Edge? Then you could have also supported the hard working Canadians at the Oakville plant who also pay taxes and support our economy.

[CX-9 Czar]

That's a fundamental economic debate!(cool)

[Mazda3]

So what you are saying then, is that when you go shopping you look for goods produced in Canada first regardless of price? I mean if it were really that important to you to support Canadian when you bought your vehicle, why didn't you buy a Ford Edge? Then you could have also supported the hard working Canadians at the Oakville plant who also pay taxes and support our economy.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting that anyone buy an inferior product or not buy the particular product that they want. I'm just suggesting that I try to support the Canadian or local distributor if I can.

I picked the CX-7 over the Edge because I like the way it drives more and the styling. It's also my opinion that it has superior quality and fit-n-finish. Probably the same reasons you're considering a CX-9 instead of a GM Acadia.

I bought my plasma tv locally. Yes, its Japanese as well, but it's the one I wanted, but I did support the local tv shop.

Just out of curiousity, did you buy your GT500 in the US because it was cheaper or because you couldn't get one here?

[jabba]

it's about supporting the 1000's of Canadian's working at dealerships across Canada who pay taxes here and support out economy.

I can admire that, unfortunately those same canadian dealers/distributors like to keep supplies purposely low so that they can charge higher prices (was told this by Toyota salesman). It's the reason why you don't get canadian invoice prices for free in Canada, and why Canadians think they get such a super deal when they can get $500 off MSRP (when americans know that invoice was probably $3k cheaper than MSRP).

The fact that there were such severe price drops in Canada just goes to show you that prices were inflated to begin with. So yes, you were supporting Jean-Guy Poutine working at the dealership, but Jean-Guy also knew you were a sucker paying those high prices. But if you don't mind that, then it's all good.

[Mazda3]

it's about supporting the 1000's of Canadian's working at dealerships across Canada who pay taxes here and support out economy.

I can admire that, unfortunately those same canadian dealers/distributors like to keep supplies purposely low so that they can charge higher prices (was told this by Toyota salesman). It's the reason why you don't get canadian invoice prices for free in Canada, and why Canadians think they get such a super deal when they can get $500 off MSRP (when americans know that invoice was probably $3k cheaper than MSRP).

The fact that there were such severe price drops in Canada just goes to show you that prices were inflated to begin with. So yes, you were supporting Jean-Guy Poutine working at the dealership, but Jean-Guy also knew you were a sucker paying those high prices. But if you don't mind that, then it's all good.

The dealers don't control the supply. Mazda Canada negotiates with Mazda Japan for the quantity of vehicles. You'll have to excuse me if I LOL!! that what a Toyota salesman told you about Mazda means anything. US dealers get paid higher "kickbacks" which is why they sell cars for invoice or less. Canadian dealers actually need to make some profit at the point of sale. Salesman in these parts get paid on point of sale profit, if they had to sell cars at invoice they would all quit. Profit is not a bad word. I expect to get paid very well for my services don't you? Why should a "good" car salesman be any different? Also the salesmen I deal with are excellent, I don't put up with any of the crap that some report on the forums. My car buying experiences are always great.

So again, I make a good living here, it's only fair that other competent people make a good living as well. For some reason it's socially acceptable for people to expect car dealers/salesman to not make any money. They're not all scumbags, just most of them. :)

As far as the dropping prices and improved incentives, most of that is because of the 25% increase in the Canadian dollar, not excesive profit.

[CX-9 Czar]

Moreover, pricing is generally set according to the market value i.e. vs. how much other makes/models command and not "cost plus". If a car is lousy and stays longer on the showroom floor, you could get a better deal than with a hot selling item. Knowing how much the dealer earns in profit is certainly valuable info for negotiating but this does not guarantee a better deal.

So the pricing spread between the US and Canada is certainly annoying, but largely irrelevant. Canada is a different market than the States, and I'm sure pricing across Canada for the same car may vary quite a bit as well.

And yes, dealers must generate enough profits to stay in business, if not we would all have to buy the cars through eBay (which is certainly doable but no test drives and no service!).

That being said, shop as you please. It's your money, after all. You place it where you think it's best.

B.

[Joe Frito]

That's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting that anyone buy an inferior product or not buy the particular product that they want. I'm just suggesting that I try to support the Canadian or local distributor if I can.

I picked the CX-7 over the Edge because I like the way it drives more and the styling. It's also my opinion that it has superior quality and fit-n-finish. Probably the same reasons you're considering a CX-9 instead of a GM Acadia.

I bought my plasma tv locally. Yes, its Japanese as well, but it's the one I wanted, but I did support the local tv shop.

Just out of curiousity, did you buy your GT500 in the US because it was cheaper or because you couldn't get one here?


MSRP on a fully loaded GT500 in Canada is $55,000, and up until about 2 months ago most dealers were still asking MSRP plus $10,000. Most dealers are sold out of '08's and with the short '09 production, Canada may not even get any. I bought my car from a small town dealer in South Dakota for US sticker, which was $45,500 and knowing I was going to buy one I converted Canadian funds into a US account when the $ was still $1.03 US. I know it won't be the same, but if I can't find a dealer to sell me a CX-9, I will buy a Lincoln MKX from the dealer I bought my car from. With cash back deals right now, one of those with every available option can be bought in the US for $38,000.

[jabba]

Profit is not a bad word. I expect to get paid very well for my services don't you?

In a competitive market, I expect to get paid less for my services if customers can find competitors that sell the same services cheaper. That's the way the ball rolls. To offset that, I try to offer a better product that can't be copied so easily. So in that same breath, if a canadian can find the same car cheaper in the US, I don't have a problem whatsoever if he goes and buys it there. To be more competitive, dealers in canada should then lower their prices--which is exactly what they have done. It doesn't mean the salesman will make less money--in fact, he should be selling more cars at lower prices. I don't see why you have a problem with that.

The way to offset that would be for Canada to actually start manufacturing a canadian car brand that really kicks butt and charge more for it, but since Canada no longer really invents and manufactures anything (except for Bombardier), that's not going to happen.

[Joe Frito]

Profit is not a bad word. I expect to get paid very well for my services don't you?

In a competitive market, I expect to get paid less for my services if customers can find competitors that sell the same services cheaper. That's the way the ball rolls. To offset that, I try to offer a better product that can't be copied so easily. So in that same breath, if a canadian can find the same car cheaper in the US, I don't have a problem whatsoever if he goes and buys it there. To be more competitive, dealers in canada should then lower their prices--which is exactly what they have done. It doesn't mean the salesman will make less money--in fact, he should be selling more cars at lower prices. I don't see why you have a problem with that.

The way to offset that would be for Canada to actually start manufacturing a canadian car brand that really kicks butt and charge more for it, but since Canada no longer really invents and manufactures anything (except for Bombardier), that's not going to happen.


It's actually funny that you bring up Bombardier. It is the exact same situation with their snowmobiles and watercraft. They are manufactured in Canada by a CANADIAN company, and we are charged siginificantly more here than customers in the US.

[EtoileBrilliant]

I maybe completely wrong, but didn't your finance minister Jim Flaherty deliver a speech to Canadians sometime last fall when the greenback was in freefall.

The main thrust was "don't complain about the lack of competiveness now the Can Dollar is strong, lower your damn prices and become more competiitive"