Massive Failure!!!!

[tweetyspeed]

pulled out of the driveway today and well a rod desided to pull out of my motor! (fu) for using cheap rods MAZDA!!!!! should have pulled your heads out of your asses on that one msp designers! o well know that the venting is over has anyone had any experiences with the k1 rods? i know everyone is going to say go with pauter rods but i am going to school, working and having to take care of my mother do to medical reasons so pauter rods are out of my price reach! any info or suggestions would be greatly apreciatted! o and what pistons is the best for the price?

[orlandomsp]

That sucks, but at least it happened while you were close to home. I'm always worried that something like this could happen whenever I drive from Gainesville to Orlando and back.

[Donas64]

Yikes. I feel for you dude.

[MAZDA_SPEED]

dude, im serious, this is like the third rod-out-of-block thread i read today..sorry about the engine bro. if k1 is in your price range for it!...what are your mods?

[Captain KRM P5]

PM me if you need help. i know what its like to be on a budget and have the car down!

[TheMAN]

I seriously doubt that shit blew up without a reason
it's either too much boost, running lean, or lack of oil

pick any one

[benflagg]

^^^or its a Mazda Protege

[StealthWyvern]

I seriously doubt that shit blew up without a reason
it's either too much boost, running lean, or lack of oil

pick any one

agree but you have to agree that the stock bottom end leaves a lot to be desired and have been known to pop being 100% stock.

[tweetyspeed]

the guy who owned it before me was running on a broke wastegate at 18+ psi for god knows how long so that would be a very valid reason! i first put a dsm wastegate cause it was all i had at 12psi but a few days later put in a factory wastegate and had her back down to 7psi! as for mods...

1. maf relocate
2. fmic
3. dual bov- hks/greddy
4. awr mounts with sls side mount

[shane02pro5]

18psi yeah that will do it...Fckin Mazda can't even handle 18psi!

Did you find out about the broken wastegate and 18psi before or after you bought it??

[tweetyspeed]

on the way home after i bought it!

[TheMAN]

18psi yeah that will do it...Fckin Mazda can't even handle 18psi!

Did you find out about the broken wastegate and 18psi before or after you bought it??
you seriously think there's many other engines out there that can take that 18psi abuse?

[TheMAN]

the guy who owned it before me was running on a broke wastegate at 18+ psi for god knows how long so that would be a very valid reason! i first put a dsm wastegate cause it was all i had at 12psi but a few days later put in a factory wastegate and had her back down to 7psi! as for mods...

1. maf relocate
2. fmic
3. dual bov- hks/greddy
4. awr mounts with sls side mount
I rest my case

[shane02pro5]

I was joking...and your supposed to be the king of Sarcasm??

(dance)

[HondaNoMore]

you seriously think there's many other engines out there that can take that 18psi abuse?


2jzgte, 4g63, rb26dett, ej25, Evo X motor (that I can't thinknof the block code for at the moment) all come to mind

[shane02pro5]

Okay put it this way... take the base model na motor for those vehicles and strap a turbo on it and a different ecu like Mazda did with the protege and then try it!

[CantCMe]

Okay put it this way... take the base model na motor for those vehicles and strap a turbo on it and a different ecu like Madza did with the protege and then try it!

Ka-boom!!!

[25FConv]

2jzgte, 4g63, rb26dett, ej25, Evo X motor (that I can't thinknof the block code for at the moment) all come to mind

4B11

[Donas64]

2jzgte, 4g63, rb26dett, ej25, Evo X motor (that I can't thinknof the block code for at the moment) all come to mind

Don't leave out the SR20DET.

[nvmsp]

Yea the previous owner blew the car up not you. So don't blame yourself or mazda. Mazda could of put together a better motor but they didnt we all knew that from the beginning though.

And suprsingly with a good tune and mods this POS stock motor can actually handle some boost, it's already been proven.

but me I've yet to go past 8psi-9psi until I get my motor built just in case.

You'll get your car back on the road though in due time.

[Jboost]

let me know about those K1 rod's. As far as experience with them I have none but we all know that anything is better than stock so thats what really matters.

[fr0st]

mazda got the msp out to test the market.. they didn't wanna risk anything big yet..

sure they coulda manage to put a BPT 1.8 in the car and all.. or forge a FS..

in the end, to built approx. 5000 cars that were ALL sold anyways, they made money with it and started the Mazdaspeed brand in a correct manner.
look at the 2004 miata mazdaspeed.. what did they do ? put a motor that can handle boost and built the whole system themselves..

then they got the MS3 and MS6 out.. again.. they did it themselves as they knew where this was going..

look at dodge with the SRT4, first year, 215 hp, second year 230 hp with a LSD.. they saw it was catching on.. when you're on the other side of the stick and you "sell" cars that you make, you can't make a mistake that will cost the compagny millions.. one thing dodge did, they got an engine that was ready to handle alot more... but for the rest, no handling and or brakes as good.

the Cobalt S/C ? easy, they got it out years later and trend was already catching on so the risk to fuck it up was low..

if you take out, out of the 5000 msp in america, the ones that actually tune the car.. you'll be left with the majority that do not do shit to the car and just drive it..

there are 3 yellows in a 1 mile radius here, including mine. all 3 are somewhat stock with stock piping and oem SMIC... including mine.. yeah.. it could pull more but it doesn't.. it still moves more than the majority of cars on the road and i still get speeding tickets with it. you guys seem to forget how much powert this thing has in terms of an econo box.. you go up a hill with a stock msp and you leave it in fifth gear.. it won't even slow down.. remember previous econobox cars you have where you had to downshift to go up a hill ?? LOL

i put 2500$ on mine in terms of mods.. piping, intercooler, CAI , AFC, catless exaust , mounts.. after that i found that i was stuck.. going higher would mean forging and having to deal with tranny issues..

yeah it was faster than stock. but not that fast.. i still got my ass handed to myself by a 1992 honda civic hatch with K20 in it... and i know how to drive...believe me.

where does this leave me ? it leaves me to think that the car, was built for very good handling,brakes and somewhat good power... but it wasn't built to "tough it out" in stock form..

i put everything back stock exept for a high flow cat, mounts and a ATP WGA.


when i want something that pulls more i'll go buy one..

[tweetyspeed]

you seriously think there's many other engines out there that can take that 18psi abuse?
and once again man read the part that says THE GUY BEFORE ME DID THAT AND I LOWERED THE BOOST BACK TO STOCK! i know this motor cant take that stock and thats why i lowered it down! i relize that when he broke the wastegate (he drilled it and pinned it shut with jb weld so he could use a mbc to control boost... me and him will have words one day soon do to him living right by me) it f'd the motor. just everything came at a bad time for this to happen!

[tweetyspeed]

I rest my case
an sorry i dont have all the money in the world to mod something out!!!!!! trying to do the best i can with what i have.... why do people have to be an ass about things? i really thank everyone that give good addvise and rlizes this kinda thing suck but smart ass people just dont even need to post anything!!!!! (THE MAN) how about saying this is what i did and provented this problem instead of showing you childish attitude!

[i12drivemyMP5]

Hmmm, I actually thought he was kinda mellow this time.

[nvmsp]

f*** him. He's not gonna help you get your car fixed anyway.

On a side note of engines that can handle alot of boost... my friend just came over to show off his lexus 1jz twin turbo,fmic etc. Very nice.

[fr0st]

f*** him. He's not gonna help you get your car fixed anyway.

On a side note of engines that can handle alot of boost... my friend just came over to show off his lexus 1jz twin turbo,fmic etc. Very nice.

a friend of mine has a 91 supra with a 1JZ.. one hell of an engine..

[nvmsp]

a friend of mine has a 91 supra with a 1JZ.. one hell of an engine..

yea, he wants to run me of course.

I can't though CEL too much fuel, no solid boost with the atp wga, and I'm not putting a boost controller on to race him. From a 2nd gear roll though, if I did put the boost control to a solid 9-10psi, I'd give him a run for his money.

But I think he'd start pulling on me after 100+mph. And I'm faster than a srt 4from a roll, and I give rx7 a run for their money too but since my boost level is low, top end cars like the rx7 and supra will start pulling after my 3rd gear.

and about that k20 in a hatch you said you lost to, hope you didnt race him out the hole. Should of raced him from a 2nd gear roll 30-35mph it's the msp's sweet spot. Or even a 1st gear roll. The msp sucks out the hole unless your running a good amount of boost 10psi or more.



Wow maybe we should stop threadjacking lol

[fr0st]

yea, he wants to run me of course.

I can't though CEL too much fuel, no solid boost with the atp wga, and I'm not putting a boost controller on to race him. From a 2nd gear roll though, if I did put the boost control to a solid 9-10psi, I'd give him a run for his money.

But I think he'd start pulling on me after 100+mph. And I'm faster than a srt 4from a roll, and I give rx7 a run for their money too but since my boost level is low, top end cars like the rx7 and supra will start pulling after my 3rd gear.

and about that k20 in a hatch you said you lost to, hope you didnt race him out the hole. Should of raced him from a 2nd gear roll 30-35mph it's the msp's sweet spot. Or even a 1st gear roll. The msp sucks out the hole unless your running a good amount of boost 10psi or more.



Wow maybe we should stop threadjacking lol

LOL

i dont know what the hatch did but out of the hole that fugger was fast.. i could hold him in 1st but after that it was gone. of course, weighing 700 lbs lesss usre helps..

my friends supra with good tires get a 13.8 on the quarter in stock form.

not too bad.

[tweetyspeed]

f*** him. He's not gonna help you get your car fixed anyway.

On a side note of engines that can handle alot of boost... my friend just came over to show off his lexus 1jz twin turbo,fmic etc. Very nice.

true true! i love the 1jz! fast fast fast and strong as hell from the factory!(iagree)

[shane02pro5]

It takes $10k+ to get the motor up to par along with the weak tranny!

Realize the limits and enjoy low boost or break the bank!!!

(burnout)
(burnout)

[tweetyspeed]

It takes $10k+ to get the motor up to par along with the weak tranny!

Realize the limits and enjoy low boost or break the bank!!!

(burnout)
(burnout)

o yeah man i hear ya! tranny has already been rebuilt at 50 or so thousand miles! and i figured since the motor is blown up i might as well start with a forged bottom end, head studs, main studs, bigger oil pan, port and polished head and go from there! any suggestions?

anthony

[JDM Sam]

buy my car. it has everything you want. and i can go buy put my name down for a GT-R.

[avarela86]

I run K1 rods. They have work great. Haven't pushed the engine to the limit yet but i', sure it'll hold for the babyish 300WHP goal. They are worth it specially if you don't want to go for insane power.

[nvmsp]

buy my car. it has everything you want. and i can go buy put my name down for a GT-R.

lol

[junya1985]

I got k1 rods with cp pistons seems to be holding up pretty good so far

[tweetyspeed]

I got k1 rods with cp pistons seems to be holding up pretty good so far

how much boost are you running? and any fuel controller ext...

[TheMAN]

mazda got the msp out to test the market.. they didn't wanna risk anything big yet..

sure they coulda manage to put a BPT 1.8 in the car and all.. or forge a FS..

in the end, to built approx. 5000 cars that were ALL sold anyways, they made money with it and started the Mazdaspeed brand in a correct manner.
look at the 2004 miata mazdaspeed.. what did they do ? put a motor that can handle boost and built the whole system themselves..

then they got the MS3 and MS6 out.. again.. they did it themselves as they knew where this was going..

look at dodge with the SRT4, first year, 215 hp, second year 230 hp with a LSD.. they saw it was catching on.. when you're on the other side of the stick and you "sell" cars that you make, you can't make a mistake that will cost the compagny millions.. one thing dodge did, they got an engine that was ready to handle alot more... but for the rest, no handling and or brakes as good.

the Cobalt S/C ? easy, they got it out years later and trend was already catching on so the risk to fuck it up was low..

if you take out, out of the 5000 msp in america, the ones that actually tune the car.. you'll be left with the majority that do not do shit to the car and just drive it..

there are 3 yellows in a 1 mile radius here, including mine. all 3 are somewhat stock with stock piping and oem SMIC... including mine.. yeah.. it could pull more but it doesn't.. it still moves more than the majority of cars on the road and i still get speeding tickets with it. you guys seem to forget how much powert this thing has in terms of an econo box.. you go up a hill with a stock msp and you leave it in fifth gear.. it won't even slow down.. remember previous econobox cars you have where you had to downshift to go up a hill ?? LOL

i put 2500$ on mine in terms of mods.. piping, intercooler, CAI , AFC, catless exaust , mounts.. after that i found that i was stuck.. going higher would mean forging and having to deal with tranny issues..

yeah it was faster than stock. but not that fast.. i still got my ass handed to myself by a 1992 honda civic hatch with K20 in it... and i know how to drive...believe me.

where does this leave me ? it leaves me to think that the car, was built for very good handling,brakes and somewhat good power... but it wasn't built to "tough it out" in stock form..

i put everything back stock exept for a high flow cat, mounts and a ATP WGA.


when i want something that pulls more i'll go buy one..
the BP was designed from the start to handle boost back in the 80s, but what mazda did to the MSM was parts binned the shit and made a "special" MSM motor

and NO, mazda didn't make a single dime off the MSPs.... the low volume, high production costs (parts and labor for installing the turbo, stereo system, front and rear lips at the port as well as throwing away perfectly good expensive parts) pretty much made them LOSE money... I'd be surprised if they actually broke even

you're right though... they sold these to test the market and it worked

[TheMAN]

and once again man read the part that says THE GUY BEFORE ME DID THAT AND I LOWERED THE BOOST BACK TO STOCK! i know this motor cant take that stock and thats why i lowered it down! i relize that when he broke the wastegate (he drilled it and pinned it shut with jb weld so he could use a mbc to control boost... me and him will have words one day soon do to him living right by me) it f'd the motor. just everything came at a bad time for this to happen!
you seem to be missing something here... it doesn't matter if you lowered the boost AFTER you got the car or not... you did not know how abused that car was before plus more importantly, whatever damage that was done has been done and it was just a matter of time before it broke apart... the guy was just smart to sell it, took the money and ran, which meant you were screwed

[TheMAN]

2jzgte, 4g63, rb26dett, ej25, Evo X motor (that I can't thinknof the block code for at the moment) all come to mind
yeah, you just try that on those motors without tuning

any motor blows up with no tuning and all these mods... it is especially the case with the MSP

[HondaNoMore]

whoa whoa whoa, all you said was that there weren't many motors that could handle 18 psi, now all of a sudden it's "not many without tuning"? I know for a fact that Evo's run over 19 psi stock, and the rest of those listed are somewhat close (between 9 and 17 psi). Yes, everything needs to be tuned but I was under the impression that we were only talking about capability here. Besides, MSP's need to be re-tuned right out of the box, the factory fuel map sucks and I'm pretty sure everyone here knows it.

[shane02pro5]

Tuned or not a motor not built for boost like the MSP will have issues and limits... all of the motors above were designed for boost! Your talking about an evo motor which has like 8.3:1 compression with internals to handle boost! Lets talk about how much boost a stock lancer 2.0L could handle with proper tuning then we're on the same page!! I'll bet it won't be much higher than 10psi!

[tweetyspeed]

does anyone know if any fs 2.0L block will work? dont know if there are different sensor mounts per years ext...

[shane02pro5]

The FS is the msp block as well as mp3, P5 and LX 2.0L. Only difference with the msp is the windage tray in between the block and the oil pan has a fitting for the oil return on the turbo.

[CantCMe]

Tuned or not a motor not built for boost like the MSP will have issues and limits... all of the motors above were designed for boost! Your talking about an evo motor which has like 8.3:1 compression with internals to handle boost! Lets talk about how much boost a stock lancer 2.0L could handle with proper tuning then we're on the same page!! I'll bet it won't be much higher than 10psi!

A friend of mine had a stock Lancer and yes the motor detonated on him after he installed a turbo kit...at only 9psi.

[shane02pro5]

Over-engineering costs too much money...you'll find a few freak examples and those were probably un-intentional design errors!

[yashooa]

Tuned or not a motor not built for boost like the MSP will have issues and limits... all of the motors above were designed for boost! Your talking about an evo motor which has like 8.3:1 compression with internals to handle boost! Lets talk about how much boost a stock lancer 2.0L could handle with proper tuning then we're on the same page!! I'll bet it won't be much higher than 10psi!

My stock motor stood up to 121k miles of crazy boost, on both the stock and an upgraded turbo. I ran up to 20PSI before it broke a ringland. It did not blow, it did not run poorly, it ran like a raped ape and all in all it withstood a horrendous pounding for 4 years.
I did tune it with an MPI, a J&S, and the stock fuel system no less.
I ran 10k mile Mobile 1 with 10k mile intervals and the engine looked fine when we tore it down. The only thing wrong was a tiny crack in one of the ringlands that allowed the compression to blow by thus highly pressurizing the rest of the engine vaporizing my oil where by it would make its way into my HUGE Perrin front mount intercooler and then it would re-condense and it would get sucked through my engine under high boost.
It ran well out of boost and got 37MPG broken! I could have drained the intercooler and then traded it off for a Honda. But I pulled the dumb enough to keep going thing and now I have a potentially 24PSI 400HP MSP.
But then the tranny will shatter :(
Ah...is that a plug in Hybrid I see in my future?
With 7 dollar a gallon gas and electricity set to triple in the next 18 months we will be lucky to even have a fucking Coleman stove with a god-damn generic brand hotdog to cook over it.
I just went off the rails didn't I...(yes)

[MAZDA_SPEED]

stock FS: 115BHP, fully modded FS: 250+BHP... uhh...thats a increase of over 100BHP+, thats good...

[tweetyspeed]

The FS is the msp block as well as mp3, P5 and LX 2.0L. Only difference with the msp is the windage tray in between the block and the oil pan has a fitting for the oil return on the turbo.

if i made my own oil return fitting on the oil pan i could use the other block then? o yeah just notied your from houston! just moved to pensacola from clearlake tx on the south side of town!

[low_psi]

Yes, but you will need the non-MSP main bearing support plate. As long as you get a block with an oil pan attached, the MBSP will be there.

[jamesk]

i think these cars are fairly quick for how much power they got.

[tweetyspeed]

also dont know if anyone had already thought of this but looking at the cams in the 1.8L motor. they run the same head and the 1.8L cams seem to be a little bit more radical! any thoughts?

[tweetyspeed]

also dont know if anyone had already thought of this but looking at the cams in the 1.8L motor. they run the same head and the 1.8L cams seem to be a little bit more radical! any thoughts?

anyone know anything about the 1.8L cams?


bump