Suspension troubles! :(

[Rush]

So my car failed inspection today because the 'tops' of my front struts are destroyed. Mechanic said that the bearings needed in the fronts are now missing. And I know something has to be wrong, because the car has started to drive worse lately (even more harshly than usual) and it has gotten VERY noisy.

However, due to the fact that I know so little about suspension, I didn't really have much of a clue what my mechanic was talking about. So .. here I am!

I originally thought that the problem is NOT the strut itself, but rather that the 'top plates' were banged up -- or, the section on the right in this picture, where the top of the spring is seated:
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/jeg0024/Spring%20Installation%20Pics/spring10.jpg

So I jacked the car up to look .. only to go, hey, my Ground Control coilover setup doesn't HAVE that 'top plate'! So I did a little more digging, and came across these pics:
http://www.mazdas247.com/members/low_psi/Camber%20Plates/Plates_001.jpg

http://www.mazdas247.com/members/low_psi/Camber%20Plates/Plates_002.jpg

.. So those made me say -- okay, evidently the top of my strut just screws into that 'top plate' where the strut is mounted. And the spring of the coilover sleeve stays seated against that lovely circular disc of metal that's halfway up the strut.

Puzzled, I went out and took pics of my own setup, because that's all the info I could find and I still couldn't figure out what my problem was exactly.

This is my passenger side FRONT:
http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Rush/StrutFr1.jpg

http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Rush/StrutFr2.jpg

http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Rush/StrutFr3.jpg


And this is my passenger side REAR (which is supposedly okay):
http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Rush/StrutR1.jpg

http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Rush/StrutR2.jpg

http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Rush/StrutR3.jpg


Can anyone all this to me? I can't see anything that stands out, but like I said, I also know almost nothing about suspension.

Also, another pertinent question .. I'm switching out my Ground Control coilover sleeves for a set of Eibach Sportline lowering springs. It looks like, in the front, I need to buy new 'top perches' for the springs to be seated in, as well as new 'bearings' .. Is that correct?

[lowpro35]

bearings?? i'm a little confused here. i installed progress lowering springs on the stock tokico's then swapped those out for ksports and i don't remember seeing any bearings.

[lowpro35]

so you are running stock struts with different top plates is that correct?

[Rush]

so you are running stock struts with different top plates is that correct?
No, sorry if I didn't make that clear in my first post -- I'm running Tokico Illumina adjustable struts with Ground Control coilover sleeves. But evidently, SOMETHING is wrong with the 'upper' part of my suspension, but ONLY in front. The rear is fine.

I am going to be swapping out the Ground Control coilover sleeves for a set of Eibach Sportline lowering springs. I'm trying to figure out what I need to buy (and where I can buy) whatever I need to make that swap possible, and to pass inspection.

[lowpro35]

ok so after thinking about it, i'm certain there are bearings in the top portion of the strut assembly. the reason your ride has gotten harsh is more than likely because the front two struts are blown. have you noticed any sort of fluid and or exessive dirt build up on the front? that would be from a ruptured seal = blown strut. so that explains the rough ride. as far as the noise that would probably be because the bearings that set around the top part of the strut that allow it to pivot inside that plate may have fallen out due to incorrect assembly. i can't really think of any other reason those bearings would disappear. i can't see the first picture in the post but maybe that would show what im looking for to confirm?

[lowpro35]

http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/images/strutmounts.jpg

if you look at this assembly in the middle where that little ball looking thing with the hole through it is that's the pivot point. these awr plates may be something like what you need?

[lowpro35]

those are actually for the rear but something similar for the front

[lowpro35]

http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/images/camberplate.jpg these might work. kinda a little over kill maybe but fun to look at...

[lowpro35]

any of that help?

[Rush]

ok so after thinking about it, i'm certain there are bearings in the top portion of the strut assembly. the reason your ride has gotten harsh is more than likely because the front two struts are blown. have you noticed any sort of fluid and or exessive dirt build up on the front? that would be from a ruptured seal = blown strut. so that explains the rough ride. as far as the noise that would probably be because the bearings that set around the top part of the strut that allow it to pivot inside that plate may have fallen out due to incorrect assembly. i can't really think of any other reason those bearings would disappear. i can't see the first picture in the post but maybe that would show what im looking for to confirm?
Actually, that sounds VERY similar to what my mechanic was telling me. He said that he thought the fronts were incorrectly assembled -- and that because of it, the bearings are now missing and stuff's not working right.

I didn't notice any excessive dirt build-up, though .. so hopefully the struts aren't blown. Is it possible for the bearing to go missing and NOT blow the struts? Or is it that once the bearing is gone, your struts are toast no matter what? And how do I go about getting another bearing? Is that impossible, do I have to just order an entirely new strut?

[lowpro35]

I'm trying to figure out what I need to buy (and where I can buy) whatever I need to make that swap possible, and to pass inspection.
to make everything quiet and functional, yes you will need new bearings for top perch pivot, and more than likely new struts for front. you said you were running adjustables. what setting did you have them at through the winter and how often did you drive in cold weather?

[lowpro35]

I didn't notice any excessive dirt build-up, though .. so hopefully the struts aren't blown. Is it possible for the bearing to go missing and NOT blow the struts? Or is it that once the bearing is gone, your struts are toast no matter what? And how do I go about getting another bearing? Is that impossible, do I have to just order an entirely new strut?

It is possible for bearings to fall out and strut to remain ok. As far as getting a new set of bearings...... other than trying to pick the brains of some guy at mazda to pull a part number out of his A$$ that may be next to impossible. the AWR camber caster kit that PG sells (second picture i posted) that will take care of the whole upper perch. I would call PG to make sure fitment for strut is compatible. Or maybe some forum member has a complete stock top perch that he or she would be willing to sell/give you?

[Rush]

to make everything quiet and functional, yes you will need new bearings for top perch pivot, and more than likely new struts for front. you said you were running adjustables. what setting did you have them at through the winter and how often did you drive in cold weather?
Oh sweet Jesus, this is gonna cost me a pretty penny, isn't it? :(

I had them at 2 for the winter (that's what I've had 'em at since they were installed), and my MSP is my only car. So it's driven basically every day, rain or shine, warm or cold.

[MSP4G63]

just buy a new strut mount from an auto parts store it should come with everything as a kit, i got my rear from carquest when it broke cheapest place and it even came with new nuts and washers.

[lowpro35]

well if there is no oil-like substance and the front of your car doesn't bounce out of control when you go over bumps your strut is more than likely fine. so really all you are looking at is the price of that top perch. the one on PG is $240, but like i said a little over kill. also the reason i asked about the setting, is extreme cold isn't good for the seals and or fluids inside the shock at high dampening rates. i personally either turn them close to full soft or take bumps very slow for a while till everthing has a chance to warm up a bit.

[lowpro35]

http://www2.partstrain.com/store/images/prodimage/images/WORLDPAC/W01331613199OES.JPG
Zoom
OE Service Front Strut Mount
1999-2003 Mazda ProtegeNormal Suspension. Sport Suspension.
Location: Front Availability: In Stock
Low Price Guarantee

Usually delivers in 2 to 3 days

FITS (ENGINE/CHASSIS) SKU PRICE QTY
1999-2003 Mazda Protege W0133-1613199 $72.95

2003: -Cyl -L
2003: DX ,production dates To:03-00-02
2003: DX ,production dates To:11-00-02
2003: ES ,production dates To:03-00-02
2003: ES ,production dates To:11-00-02
2003: LX ,production dates To:03-00-02
2003: LX ,production dates To:11-00-02

[lowpro35]

just buy a new strut mount from an auto parts store it should come with everything as a kit, i got my rear from carquest when it broke cheapest place and it even came with new nuts and washers.

right on the money found that on partstrain.com

[Rush]

http://www2.partstrain.com/store/images/prodimage/images/WORLDPAC/W01331613199OES.JPG
Zoom
OE Service Front Strut Mount
1999-2003 Mazda ProtegeNormal Suspension. Sport Suspension.
Location: Front Availability: In Stock
Low Price Guarantee

Usually delivers in 2 to 3 days

FITS (ENGINE/CHASSIS) SKU PRICE QTY
1999-2003 Mazda Protege W0133-1613199 $72.95

2003: -Cyl -L
2003: DX ,production dates To:03-00-02
2003: DX ,production dates To:11-00-02
2003: ES ,production dates To:03-00-02
2003: ES ,production dates To:11-00-02
2003: LX ,production dates To:03-00-02
2003: LX ,production dates To:11-00-02
Is that part going to contain the bearing that I'm currently missing, if I understand correctly? .. I don't see anything that looks like a bearing in those pics, though.

And what about the parts I need for the spring install? That's the big thing -- the Ground Controls ARE BEING REMOVED from my car.

In that first pic that I showed in my original post, there's that 'cap' that sits atop the spring and seats it -- between the spring, but below the strut mount. I don't think I have it anymore. Here's this original image again for an example .. I highlighted the strut mount in blue and the 'unknown' piece that I need a name for in red.
http://www.mazdas247.com/members/Rush/Example2.jpg


I don't have that piece right now in the front, and I assume I'll need it to have the Eibach Sportlines installed. So .. what the hell is it? LOL.

[lowpro35]

that would be the spring seat. was that not on there the whole time?? that would cause a lot of noise too

[Rush]

that would be the spring seat. was that not on there the whole time?? that would cause a lot of noise too
Nope, it's not there!

.. I was looking over the AWR camber casting kit that you posted, but I guess all I want is the 'stock' version of that. Tho' of course, it's probably not that simple, cause it's NEVER that simple!

I think all I'm really missing, thanks to the education I've received in this thread, are the spring seats and the bearings of the pivot joint. I THINK my current strut mounts might still be okay.

I'll try asking one of the 'online Mazda parts' guys here on the forums if it's possible to buy just those things.

P.S. Did I mention that you're awesome? LOL.

[lowpro35]

cool, you might see if in that partstrain kit if they include the spring seat for the upper mount, the bearings are definitely there and it's the whole assembly for the top, so you just might be in luck if it includes that seat. you are right the AWR one is a little overkill.
you are very welcome for the info, im kinda a car nerd.

[MikeBlueP5]

wait a second. I have the ground controls too. Dont waste your money on new tophats. The bearings you need are actually plastic. I installed my own ground controls. They are common to go bad rather quickly, i have seen it discussed on the forum before. Ill see if i can locate something in a thread that shows them. There might be a pic in the ground control install how to. brb

[lowpro35]

http://www2.partstrain.com/store/images/prodimage/images/WORLDPAC/generic_oes_3223.jpg
OE Service Front Strut Bearing
1999-2003 Mazda Protege
Location: Front Availability: In Stock
Low Price Guarantee

Usually delivers in 2 to 3 days

FITS (ENGINE/CHASSIS) SKU PRICE QTY
1999-2003 Mazda Protege W0133-1759545 $19.95

2003: -Cyl -L
2003: DX
2003: ES
2003: LX
2003: Mazdaspeed

??? i also found this, so maybe when you ask the mazda parts guy he will tell you there is just the bearing and it's only around $20. Oh also after looking at that strut mount assembly that i posted before, you are very right the bearing doesn't show, so if you decide to go that route, double check as to what it includes. sorry for any confusion or misinformation.

[MikeBlueP5]

also on the ground controls the upper spring perch/seat is replaced with an aluminum one for the smaller eibach springs that go with the adjustable GC sleeves so that explains why you dont have the big upper seat. Im fairly positive. Im bout to check, if im wrong ill say so.

[MikeBlueP5]

there you go, lowpro got it. it goes between the aluminum GC spring seat and the tophat that holds everything together

[lowpro35]

also on the ground controls the upper spring perch/seat is replaced with an aluminum one for the smaller eibach springs that go with the adjustable GC sleeves so that explains why you dont have the big upper seat. Im fairly positive. Im bout to check, if im wrong ill say so.

that makes plenty of sense. i don't have experience with the GCs. but that would explain no spring seat.

[MikeBlueP5]

well i couldnt find the old GC install guide that used to be on here, but those bearings up there are the ones you need. They are the only bearings there are in the front, they allow the whole strut assembly to rotate separately from the upper strut mount. It wouldnt work out so well if everything tried to twist when you turn. Im pretty sure mine are shot by now, they had started wearing pretty bad last time i had them out and had separated into two pieces.

[Rush]

it goes between the aluminum GC spring seat and the tophat that holds everything together
So the 'it' part of that sentence is referring to strut bearing, correct?

And when the Eibach Sportlines are installed .. that bearing winds up sitting between the spring seat and the strut mount, yes?

I'm just trying to get a mental picture, I'm so sorry for being this stupid. :(

[MikeBlueP5]

yes the 'it' refers to the bearing. You will need the stock upper spring perches. lemme look at your pics again. But when stock SIZE springs (diameter wise, not meaning height) are installed the order will go a lil somthing like this. Theres the main strut body. It has a rubber ring in the lower spring perch (to stop noise) the spring seats in that rubber ring. Then the upper spring perch (also has rubber ring to stop noise) goes on top of the spring, then the bearing, then the upper strut mount with the big nut in the middle, then that whole assembly is bolted in the car. sorry for all my run on sentences, i hope all that made sense. im tryin to hurry i gotta be up at 5 am lol

[MikeBlueP5]

ok in that picture that you edited up above, the part in red you WILL need. That is what the top of a stock spring/aftermarket spring will seat in. The bearing would go between the red and blue circled parts. (i call it the upper spring perch/tophat, and blue piece is the upper strut mount which holds the assy to the car)

[MikeBlueP5]

i edited this picture to show you where the bearing would go on your current setup. I shouldnt have used so much red lol but it would go between the black upper strut mount and the aluminum spring perch there in the pic
http://www.msprotege.com/members/MikeBlueP5/RUSH/StrutFr3.jpg

[Rush]

yes the 'it' refers to the bearing. You will need the stock upper spring perches. lemme look at your pics again. But when stock SIZE springs (diameter wise, not meaning height) are installed the order will go a lil somthing like this. Theres the main strut body. It has a rubber ring in the lower spring perch (to stop noise) the spring seats in that rubber ring. Then the upper spring perch (also has rubber ring to stop noise) goes on top of the spring, then the bearing, then the upper strut mount with the big nut in the middle, then that whole assembly is bolted in the car. sorry for all my run on sentences, i hope all that made sense. im tryin to hurry i gotta be up at 5 am lol
Yes, that made PERFECT sense! Mental picture, cha-ching! :D

[lowpro35]

all is good, on the road to recovery

[Rush]

Whoo, now that I actually know WTF I'm looking at and talking about, I won't feel so vulnerable when I go into a shop and ask about having the work done.

J00 guys R my heroez. (drinks)

[MikeBlueP5]

glad we could help! lemme know how the new setup works out for you. I have been thinking about swapping the GCs for springs myself.

[Diehonda]

Yay for this sites info. Boo for local auto stores carrying the bearing itself. I have to buy a mount w/bearing to get just the bearing.(dark)


Dealer quoted 33.69 for the bearing. Ships in seven days. Doesn't help when I need it tomorrow.

Napa has the mount for 53.87. Guess I am buying a new mount.(rant)

Rockauto has the mount for $25 and ships really fast though. I bought my struts there for crazy cheap but didn't think to order the mount at the same time. Struts came in yesterday.

For P5/Sedan: MONROE Part#904938 $24.79
Vehicle match:
FORDESCAPE(2001 - 2005)
FORDESCAPE HYBRID(2005 - 2007)
FORDESCAPE LIMITED(2006 - 2007)
FORDESCAPE XLS(2006 - 2007)
FORDESCAPE XLT(2006 - 2007)
MAZDAPROTEGE5(2002 - 2003)
MAZDATRIBUTE2001
MAZDATRIBUTE DX(2002 - 2004)
MAZDATRIBUTE ES(2002 - 2004)
MAZDATRIBUTE I(2005 - 2006)
MAZDATRIBUTE LX(2002 - 2004)
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MERCURYMARINER2005
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MERCURYMARINER HYBRID(2006 - 2007)
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MERCURYMARINER PREMIER(2005 - 2007)

MSP: MONROE Part # 904983 $27.79
MAZDAPROTEGE(1999 - 2001)
MAZDAPROTEGE DX(2002 - 2003)
MAZDAPROTEGE ES(2002 - 2003)
MAZDAPROTEGE LX(2002 - 2003)
MAZDAPROTEGE MAZDASPEED2003
MAZDAPROTEGE MP32001

[Diehonda]

Eureka!! Found a strut mount with bearing at Advanced Auto for *drum roll please* $23!! Part number search FTMFW!! Plus it is in stock!(breakn)(breakn)

[FunkyBuddha]

Yup ..strut bearings. they're bearing cartridges pictured above. What they do is they help the strut do a bit of rotation when you turn the wheels so they don't seize up.

Ya this is a late post and I know Rush's car is wrecked but just throwing in some info anyways Haha.