Downpipe And Our Horrible Stock Turbo Seals

[NYSP33D3]

So I called up ********** to purchase my downpipe and the tech told me that installing the downpipe will blow the seals on my turbo. Rumor has it our stock turbo cannot withstand more than 300hp... reason being is that the downpipe will make the turbo over spool... SO WEAK.. Is there anything that can be done to prevent this such as COBB AP w. Custom tune?? I need some advice im sick of g37s and 2008 z's haha.

[nytmar3]

our stock turbos are fine. The leaking is because of the pcv system not bad seals. And any K04 should be good for at least 350 with some mild PnP and upgraded wheel.

[MS3077]

With an Intake / Midpipe / MM & light weight 17's w / decent rubber I don't think g37's and 08 350z's would be an issue.

Should be good for Mid 13's 1/4 and from a roll you'll be like racing a low 13's car. I don't think a stock g37 or 08 350z would catch you if you're a decent driver.

[MS3077]

Nevermind, I just read up on the g37 a little and those mods I mentioned would most likely just make it a race. Yeah you might need that DP lol!

[techniciana]

So I called up ********** to purchase my downpipe and the tech told me that installing the downpipe will blow the seals on my turbo. Rumor has it our stock turbo cannot withstand more than 300hp... reason being is that the downpipe will make the turbo over spool... SO WEAK.. Is there anything that can be done to prevent this such as COBB AP w. Custom tune?? I need some advice im sick of g37s and 2008 z's haha.

here's an easy fix.get a regular mazda 3 and put a cold air intake,headders,exhaust.and a 40 hp dry shot,you'll be right next to a speed.and you have no turbo troubles to worry about

[JCurry]

Can you elaborate(spelling)a little more on this,,i thought it was the seals that made the cars smoke when you got rid of the cats and such??



our stock turbos are fine. The leaking is because of the pcv system not bad seals. And any K04 should be good for at least 350 with some mild PnP and upgraded wheel.

[lestat13]

here's an easy fix.get a regular mazda 3 and put a cold air intake,headders,exhaust.and a 40 hp dry shot,you'll be right next to a speed.and you have no turbo troubles to worry about

ummm, no, try again ;)

[NYSP33D3]

Now all jokes aside...

[nytmar3]

Can you elaborate(spelling)a little more on this,,i thought it was the seals that made the cars smoke when you got rid of the cats and such??

Just do some research. Many people have installed catch cans on the PCV system and completely cleared up their smoking issues. Adding a downpipe puts less pressure on the PCV system and crankcase and allows oil to suck into the PCV during boost. This eventually leaks down through the system and burns off in the exhaust.

Explains why so many different people with so many different setups experince the smoking. IE: Stock cars have it, modded cars have it.

Also explains why some people who have gotten their turbos covered under warranty end up with new turbos that still smoke.

Also explains why some people experience smoking IMMEDIATELY after a DP install, without even driving the car.

Research it some more if your more interested.

[nytmar3]

ummm, no, try again ;)


It would actually be a pretty stout setup. Probably would be a good race for us. You won't be worrying about turbo issues.......just all your internals......and the fact that NAWWWZZZZ runs out.

[NYSP33D3]

Its not the smoking im worried about.. Its as simple as this.. Replacing the downpipe im opening it up to a full 3 inchs.. even with a high flow cat theres still alot of freeflow and this means the turbo spools up faster and longer..eventually "overspooling". The over spool makes alot of friction and the turbo gets extrmemly hot which burns the seals! how hard is that to understand.. I dont think you would see a blown turbo from the downpipe immediatly anyway... I think it would take a couple of months to take its toll. If you think im wrong PLEASE correct me.(hand)

[SPEED3TYPE2]

our stock turbos are fine. The leaking is because of the pcv system not bad seals. And any K04 should be good for at least 350 with some mild PnP and upgraded wheel.

EXACTLY!! more and more people are figuring this out! get a catch can..

[SPEED3TYPE2]

So I called up ********** to purchase my downpipe and the tech told me that installing the downpipe will blow the seals on my turbo. Rumor has it our stock turbo cannot withstand more than 300hp... reason being is that the downpipe will make the turbo over spool... SO WEAK.. Is there anything that can be done to prevent this such as COBB AP w. Custom tune?? I need some advice im sick of g37s and 2008 z's haha.

wrong there are several speeds with stock turbo, cia,tbe,bc,cdfp making 300wheel hp with no probs that about 350-360 crank hp

[NYSP33D3]

wrong there are several speeds with stock turbo, cia,tbe,bc,cdfp making 300wheel hp with no probs that about 350-360 crank hp
I really hope thats the case.. Im not trying to be stubborn or say this is what it is but I was on the phone with the tech at street unit and he said that they own a speed3 and run tests on the dyno all the time and hes saying that the downpipe is blowing the seals.. Im really aboutto call up MazdaUSA and ask if it will.. theyr'e the engineers.

[ronniekarn]

With an Intake / Midpipe / MM & light weight 17's w / decent rubber I don't think g37's and 08 350z's would be an issue.

Should be good for Mid 13's 1/4 and from a roll you'll be like racing a low 13's car. I don't think a stock g37 or 08 350z would catch you if you're a decent driver.

Look online at some forums, stock 08 350z's can do 13.10s with the right driver, most guys are mid 13s easy.

[nytmar3]

Its not the smoking im worried about.. Its as simple as this.. Replacing the downpipe im opening it up to a full 3 inchs.. even with a high flow cat theres still alot of freeflow and this means the turbo spools up faster and longer..eventually "overspooling". The over spool makes alot of friction and the turbo gets extrmemly hot which burns the seals! how hard is that to understand.. I dont think you would see a blown turbo from the downpipe immediatly anyway... I think it would take a couple of months to take its toll. If you think im wrong PLEASE correct me.(hand)

I do think your wrong, and you are being stubborn. The stock turbos are not overspooling.

Has ANYONE overspooled a stock turbo yet?

By the way the stock turbo seals are metal rings, they're not overheating and causing leaking.....

[techniciana]

ummm, no, try again ;)

yeah,jokes.i love em'.especially the one about the ms3 (barely getting into the 13's at the dragway).i laugh at it all the time.most people run low 14's in the ms3(stock).here's the funniest thing about it.......i'm faster,with no turbo worries.but that's ok.no machine was built perfect.nice mods 2 your car.today i just got my cat taken off.when i hit the strip again(with my drag radials,i'll post my sub 13 second run.take care

[nytmar3]

I really hope thats the case.. Im not trying to be stubborn or say this is what it is but I was on the phone with the tech at street unit and he said that they own a speed3 and run tests on the dyno all the time and hes saying that the downpipe is blowing the seals.. Im really aboutto call up MazdaUSA and ask if it will.. theyr'e the engineers.

Mazda will tell you adding anything aftermarket to your car could cause problems. They are not going to be much help.

[NYSP33D3]

Look online at some forums, stock 08 350z's can do 13.10s with the right driver, most guys are mid 13s easy.
IM NOT talking about stock 350z's and stock 37's.. My boys are into cars just like we arew and do work to there cars too.. fact of the matter is were turbo.. they arent and i wanna get the point across real well.. One of my friends has a 04 350.. stage 2 clutch and flywheel ,full exaust , and i think a tune... Thing is so torquyyy 120mph 6th to 5th rips so hard

[nytmar3]

yeah,jokes.i love em'.especially the one about the ms3 (barely getting into the 13's at the dragway).i laugh at it all the time.most people run low 14's in the ms3(stock).here's the funniest thing about it.......i'm faster,with no turbo worries.but that's ok.no machine was built perfect.nice mods 2 your car.today i just got my cat taken off.when i hit the strip again(with my drag radials,i'll post my sub 13 second run.take care

Let us know how long your internals last always shootin up all that NAWZ. (braindead

[NYSP33D3]

I do think your wrong, and you are being stubborn. The stock turbos are not overspooling.

Has ANYONE overspooled a stock turbo yet?

By the way the stock turbo seals are metal rings, they're not overheating and causing leaking.....
How long have you had your DP?

[NYSP33D3]

Mazda will tell you adding anything aftermarket to your car could cause problems. They are not going to be much help.
Ill tell them straight to there face.. SCREW UR WARRANTY i wanna know if the car can handle it

[nytmar3]

How long have you had your DP?

Over a thousand miles.

[nytmar3]

Ill tell them straight to there face.. SCREW UR WARRANTY i wanna know if the car can handle it

We're telling you right now.....the car can handle it.

[NYSP33D3]

yeah,jokes.i love em'.especially the one about the ms3 (barely getting into the 13's at the dragway).i laugh at it all the time.most people run low 14's in the ms3(stock).here's the funniest thing about it.......i'm faster,with no turbo worries.but that's ok.no machine was built perfect.nice mods 2 your car.today i just got my cat taken off.when i hit the strip again(with my drag radials,i'll post my sub 13 second run.take care NOS??? and thats a CHEAP and fast solution but peopel are right.. ur internals are gonna be shot... Im not sh itting on your 3 im glad you take pride in ur mazda but im curious to see how long it lasts.

[NYSP33D3]

We're telling you right now.....the car can handle it. I want to belive you man.. I jsut worry about my car. Its my kid and daddy doesnt know about any work i did to the car so if something goes wrong IM FUCKED.

[nytmar3]

I want to belive you man.. I jsut worry about my car. Its my kid and daddy doesnt know about any work i did to the car so if something goes wrong IM FUCKED.

If your that worried about it.....don't mod it.....or check tht your dealer is cool with the mod you want to do first.

[NYSP33D3]

If your that worried about it.....don't mod it.....or check tht your dealer is cool with the mod you want to do first.
HAH! No Mazda dealership in my area is cool with mods. BUT I WANT THE POWER.. Im gonna wind up doing it sometime sooner or later... Ill just give it time and see how everyone elses holds up.

[absolutamente]

My turbo was replaced under warranty for smoking and the issue is now resolved. They performed a check on the PCV valve specifically to identify whether or not that was the issue. When the tests came back showing it was not, they replaced the turbo due to bad seals.

[nytmar3]

My turbo was replaced under warranty for smoking and the issue is now resolved. They performed a check on the PCV valve specifically to identify whether or not that was the issue. When the tests came back showing it was not, they replaced the turbo due to bad seals.

2 questions.

1) How long has it been since your turbo was replaced?

2) Did you smoke under acceleration before the swap?

[NYSP33D3]

2 questions.

1) How long has it been since your turbo was replaced?

2) Did you smoke under acceleration before the swap?

HMMMMMM.. More doubt in my head now.. But even I smoke a little under acceleration

[sperry]

Turbo seals and overspool aside... a properly setup catch-can is a good thing on any modded turbo car. Hell, they're good on un-modded turbo cars too if you're driving them hard.

I'm not totally sure how the PCV system works on the MS3, but on the WRX/STi there are two circuits that benefit from catch cans: the crank/pcv breather, and the valve cover breathers. They both vent into the intake so if you're pushing oil out them, you end up sucking it through the cold side of the turbo to be burned in the engine, which screws with the octane of the intake charge, not to mention messes up the turbo if there's a lot of oil. I'm sure the Mazda is similar, no?

[NYSP33D3]

Turbo seals and overspool aside... a properly setup catch-can is a good thing on any modded turbo car. Hell, they're good on un-modded turbo cars too if you're driving them hard.

I'm not totally sure how the PCV system works on the MS3, but on the WRX/STi there are two circuits that benefit from catch cans: the crank/pcv breather, and the valve cover breathers. They both vent into the intake so if you're pushing oil out them, you end up sucking it through the cold side of the turbo to be burned in the engine, which screws with the octane of the intake charge, not to mention messes up the turbo if there's a lot of oil. I'm sure the Mazda is similar, no?
What kind of Turbo is in the Wrx/ STi?

[sperry]

What kind of Turbo is in the Wrx/ STi?
Stock WRX turbo is a Mitsubishi TD04L-13T. Good for about 200-220 whp (which on an AWD Subaru is about 280-300 at the crank).

Stock STi turbo is an IHI VF39, starting in '07 I think they went to a VF43 which is the same as the VF39, but has a bigger wastegate to fight boost creep w/ downpipes. They're good to about 300 whp.

All three turbos are thrust-bearing, IIRC.

[MS3077]

Stock WRX turbo is a Mitsubishi TD04L-13T. Good for about 200-220 whp (which on an AWD Subaru is about 280-300 at the crank).

Stock STi turbo is an IHI VF39, starting in '07 I think they went to a VF43 which is the same as the VF39, but has a bigger wastegate to fight boost creep w/ downpipes. They're good to about 300 whp.

All three turbos are thrust-bearing, IIRC.

Aren't all Subarus AWD? What's 280-300 at the crank? WRX?? I don't understand your second sentence

[NYSP33D3]

Stock WRX turbo is a Mitsubishi TD04L-13T. Good for about 200-220 whp (which on an AWD Subaru is about 280-300 at the crank).

Stock STi turbo is an IHI VF39, starting in '07 I think they went to a VF43 which is the same as the VF39, but has a bigger wastegate to fight boost creep w/ downpipes. They're good to about 300 whp.

All three turbos are thrust-bearing, IIRC. And this is why it blows my mind that this K04 is having so many issues

[sperry]

Aren't all Subarus AWD? What's 280-300 at the crank? WRX?? I don't understand your second sentence
If you tune a WRX on the stock turbo (CAI, up-pipe, TBE, reflashed ECU) you can make about 200 to 220 all-wheel horsepower, which works out to be an estimated 280 to 300 horsepower at the crank if you take the "standard" estimated 28% drivetrain loss.

I was just pointing out that the AWD system on the Subaru tends to take quite a bit out of the wheel power of the car... so saying "AWD Subaru" is a bit redundant, but not necessarily in the context of a Mazda board. ;)

[nytmar3]

And this is why it blows my mind that this K04 is having so many issues

they.....aren't.....having.....that many problems.........

You've read a few horror stories on the net and most of those aren't even the turbo, they're the pcv.......

[john blutarski]

I made 245 whp and 249 wtq on my WRX with the little TD04 @ 18 psi. We never had smoking issues, catch cans or not even when pushing the turbo to its limits.

I'm still not convinced the K04 smoking is from the PCV system. If it was then why all the stories of Mazda replacing the turbos under warranty?

[nytmar3]

I made 245 whp and 249 wtq on my WRX with the little TD04 @ 18 psi. We never had smoking issues, catch cans or not even when pushing the turbo to its limits.

I'm still not convinced the K04 smoking is from the PCV system. If it was then why all the stories of Mazda replacing the turbos under warranty?

Here's a better question, why all the stories of people's cars still smoking after getting a turbo covered under warranty?

[J-Villa]

nytmar3, seems you are talking to a wall in some of these posts.

If you are afraid of smoking, get a damn catch can. Small investment for a worthy cause.

and you can't trust all horror stories also b/c every car is different and this may seem like a shock to some of ya'll.... but mazda does put out defects. \



Where you @ in jax nytmar3?

[wisniaPl]

hehe just do it....

[nytmar3]

nytmar3, seems you are talking to a wall in some of these posts.

If you are afraid of smoking, get a damn catch can. Small investment for a worthy cause.

and you can't trust all horror stories also b/c every car is different and this may seem like a shock to some of ya'll.... but mazda does put out defects. \



Where you @ in jax nytmar3?

For sure feels like I am man lol.

I'm actually a bit south of J-ville (I'm in Yulee....yeah laugh it up)
But Jax is only like 20 minutes from here.

[wisniaPl]

these seal horror stories remind me stories about rx8 rotary engine that the will last only to 80k and engines are blowing like crazy......funny shit

[matsuda]

Here's a better question, why all the stories of people's cars still smoking after getting a turbo covered under warranty?

Here is an even better question:

Exactly which part of the PCV system is responsible for the smoking problem?

[bova80]

here is my post from another board.

Well i installed my catch can and here are some pics i took after it was installed. sorry they are after but when i start working on something i hate to stop and take pics. this was all done without removing the intake manifold.

i orderd an oem pcv valve from mazmart on the 6club forum. it cost me $10+ shipping. one side of the valve is orange and one side is green. you want the orange side attached to the catch can. basically if you blow through it you want the airflow to go towards the intake manifold. this is because when you are in boost you don't pressurize the catch can forcing oil back up into the crank case.

stock PCV > catch can inlet

catch can outlet > additional PCV (oriented so that air can only flow from the catch can to the manifold) > intake manifold

parts needed:
-1 Catch Can (Saikou Michi w/ baffle and 5/8" ports)
-5ft of 5/8" heater hose (should be able to hold up under vacuum without collapsing)
-1 oem pcv valve
-1 5/8" to 5/8" heater hose adapter
-clamps

i removed one of the horns and used that as my mounting location. rather than replacing the hose from the pcv off the engine i just used a 5/8" to 5/8" heater hose adapter so i could add on to it without having to try and fish around in there. i figure if the stock hose was good enough all this time no use tearing it out.

i then had to cut a section of the radiator support out so i could run the hose.

i then attached that to the inlet on the catch can temporarily and then also temporaily ran the hose down from the top of the engine bay and connected it to the intake manifold.

i then started the car up and poured some seafoam directly into that hose so it would go in through the manifold where all the oil was traveling so it would get cleaned up. let her sit for 5 min then started her up and smoked up my neighborhood for 5minutes.

after that was done i took the hose off the intake mani and then begun routing everything nicely. i cut a 2" length of hose and put it off the intake manifold and then hooked the second pcv valve up to that. i then attached the rest of the hose which would lead to the catch can. after all was hooked up and clamped i started her up and checked for leaks. couldn't find any so all is good. buttoned her back up and well keep everyone posted if this resolves my smoking at idle, which i'm pretty sure it will.

http://users.adelphia.net/~bova80/cell.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~bova80/catchcan1.jpg


this is laying under the car looking up behind the intake manifold. to the passenger side of the oil filter.

http://users.adelphia.net/~bova80/catchcan2.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~bova80/catchcan3.jpg

[ericrapp]

3,000 or so on 3.5 TM, tubes, forge, cs tbe, and original mscai + notune. still running a bit rich. No oil loss or oil smoke. rec'd in May 07 ordered in Feb. 21,000 and strong like bull.

[staples187]

Nevermind, I just read up on the g37 a little and those mods I mentioned would most likely just make it a race. Yeah you might need that DP lol!

I could shift at 7600rpm in my G37, but it's also a 3600lb car. It doesn't quite have the hmmph bottom end like the speed 3, but once you start hitting closer to redline it'll throw you back. I have a few local friends that still have a Speed 3 and I'll run them on a closed course and see what happens.

[MS3077]

I could shift at 7600rpm in my G37, but it's also a 3600lb car. It doesn't quite have the hmmph bottom end like the speed 3, but once you start hitting closer to redline it'll throw you back. I have a few local friends that still have a Speed 3 and I'll run them on a closed course and see what happens.

Cool! Keeps us updated and congrats on your new ride! :)

[MS3077]

3,000 or so on 3.5 TM, tubes, forge, cs tbe, and original mscai + notune. still running a bit rich. No oil loss or oil smoke. rec'd in May 07 ordered in Feb. 21,000 and strong like bull.

lmfao!

[oskinosmee]

Intake, CS DP, MBC 18- 19 psi, MM,Meth
No smoke or anything

[ericrapp]

Nice, oskinosmee. And I do I do love the the turbocharged wagon.

[NYSP33D3]

I think im just gonna go ahead and do it.. where can I find those OEM pcv valve?

[Jgigs]

I had 0 mods done and my car was smoking at idle as well. Took it into the dealer, they had the car over night and "ran various tests" and said I needed a new turbo as well. They ordered the parts I dropped off the car again, 3 days later I got the car back and 500 miles later still haven't seen smoke.

Do you think in my case, being it was completely stock and mine was smoking it was in fact a bad turbo? I was thinking about ordering a GHL exhaust and a test pipe, but if it's going to smoke again, i'd rather not.

Also, will a test pipe make me fail inspection?

[NYSP33D3]

I had 0 mods done and my car was smoking at idle as well. Took it into the dealer, they had the car over night and "ran various tests" and said I needed a new turbo as well. They ordered the parts I dropped off the car again, 3 days later I got the car back and 500 miles later still haven't seen smoke.

Do you think in my case, being it was completely stock and mine was smoking it was in fact a bad turbo? I was thinking about ordering a GHL exhaust and a test pipe, but if it's going to smoke again, i'd rather not.

Also, will a test pipe make me fail inspection?
Where do you live? The test pipe will most likley make you fail inspection.. depends on where you live but Im in the same boat as you. I would also like to buy the CP-E test pipe and catch can but im a little nervous for a smoking problem too but so far everyone with the similar mods have not had a problem.

[clos561]

its possible, some guys on here put down 350+ on the stock turbo, i dont know if they got them reworked (cant remember)