RIP Slvrsleeper

[slvrsleeper]

Got into a bad accident this afternoon on my way home in the rain. Spun out on bald rear tires and went into oncoming traffic backwards. The 5 is destroyed and my neck is sprained other than that everyone is fine, other driver came through without major injury (thank god!) I wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong, just bad weather, bad tires, and bad luck. I am hoping the insurance will pay off the car so I can get an 08. If not I'll be getting a beater to get me to work for a while.

[coolmazda5]

$h!t, oh man, good to know you are OK. Yeah, there was some nasty gusty rain this afternoon around this neck of the woods...

Best of luck with the insurance, and again, good to know the Mazda5 kept you mostly unharmed, that's what matters now...

[raspykart]

dang, ya glad your ok bud... would it be possible to post some pics of the carnage... always wondered how it would fair if takin in the rear... not much space back there. Hope ya can get another bud.

[jandree22]

Scary stuff, and thank god everyone's okay. I once pulled an unintentional 360* on a wet twisty back road... tires were fine, I was plain old going too fast around a turn. Luckily no one else was involved and I dodged the guardrails/curb too. Life lesson for sure, that shit could've been MUCH worse... kind of like your situation :(

Oh well, like I said, glad you're okay. If you believe in them, a chiropractor can do wonders for your neck. Take care of yourself man

[$chocker]

Bummer....glad you're OK.

[mrbwa1]

Schnikes!

Glad to head the the 5 performs well in a read end collision. Hopefully you will be able to get a new 5 as we would miss your contributions greatly around here.

[dreamym5]

Thank God you are okay... hope your neck gets beter soon...
Hope to see you in 08 club soon as well..

[opus]

I agree with Jandree on the chiro, my wife got T-boned in her Saturn wagon by a heating and AC truck and after a week or two of pain killers she finally broke down and saw the chiro and she was in much better shape. I too am glad that you came out of it OK, and I for one will be looking at my tires much more closely now. Hope you are able to get your insurance company to take care of you, and just think of the joy the 08's extra armrests will bring!!

[slvrsleeper]

I will try to get some pics of the remains up after I retrieve my stuff from her on Moday afternoon. You may not like what you see though, the rear end did well, but the drivers seat did not. The seat twisted on its base about twenty degrees to the left and the back rest failed, also the headrest was thrown into the second row. Both second row seat cushions were sheared off their respective bases as well. The radio and HVAC panel was ejected from the dash too. Thanks for the kind words all, I'l post more when I know more.

[maple_leaf]

Glad you're okay bud....

Just out of curiosity, are you allowed to go back and retrieve some of the stuff you put in? Like, the CAI for example?

[offset_98]

I will try to get some pics of the remains up after I retrieve my stuff from her on Moday afternoon. You may not like what you see though, the rear end did well, but the drivers seat did not. The seat twisted on its base about twenty degrees to the left and the back rest failed, also the headrest was thrown into the second row. Both second row seat cushions were sheared off their respective bases as well. The radio and HVAC panel was ejected from the dash too. Thanks for the kind words all, I'l post more when I know more.

Glad you're alright; now the questions!

How fast were you hit? This is unacceptable! My wife was rearended at 50 mph by a Lexus ES on the highway in her CX-7 and the damage to her car was all cosmetic, outside the car with nothing intruding into the passenger area and nothing popping out of the dash or seats etc.

[5phreak]

wow what a bummer, glad you're ok. hang in there.

[dbthompson]

Wow. Sounds like a nasty accident. Not sure I wanna see the pics :(

Glad you're mostly ok. Get your neck checked out.

This sounds exactly like the situation where ESC could have helped somewhat (balding rear tires leading to oversteer).

Mazda, are you listening?

[fam]

ESC is required in 2009 on all US vehicles. (or sometime very soon)

[dbthompson]

ESC is required in 2009 on all US vehicles. (or sometime very soon)

Or, in actuality, by the 2012 model year. For specifics see NHTSA:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.012c081c5966f0ca3253ab10cba046a0/

[Note: we already know that Canadian 2009 Mazda5s will not have ESC]

[fam]

4 years, I knew it was sometime close. It will be a welcomed feature thats for sure. I drove my friends 300 in the snow with it on and was flooring it and acting like a tard monkey and was amazed on how well the system truley works on a RWD platform, comparing it to my mustang was like comparing ...well...there was no comparison, this should have been standard 10 years ago.

[mrbwa1]

fam: I could have used Stability control on my old '77 Volvo. I guess the problem I have with it is that the systems I have encountered are either:

A. Too Aggressive When On

or

B. You can turn the 'off' but they still kick in at some point.

While I appreciate the life-saving potential, there are times when an override would be prudent. (ie Racetrack, Snow Parking lot, Middle of nowhere in the Malibu Hills with a RWD Dodge Charger). I have spent years without ESP, but due to our winter snows, I have always spent a lot of time in a parking lot learning just where the limits are (and having a little fun). At least ESP is a bit better than Traction Control... I think the designers of most traction control systems mush have never driven on ice or in deep snow.

My concession is that there can be an off button like there is now that still kicks in at some point, but I want a sequence to fully disable ESP. I'm cool if I have to step on the brake 3 times, toggle the ESP switch 2 times, ending on off and hit the trip odo reset a couple times. Make it insanely hard, just make it available. </rant>

[fam]

Turning off is neccesarry too i agree. The 300 was more fun with it off :-)

[bulwnkl]

Sorry to hear about your accident, slvrsleeper. I'm glad you and the other people are OK. Mind if I ask what the speed limit is on the road where it happened? I'm only curious because, if you spun backwards into oncoming traffic, that could easily have been an 80-100 mph collision. That would make the damage you describe far more 'acceptable' and even highly commendable that you only have a sore neck!

[slvrsleeper]

To answer everyones questions. First the collison was a very odd angle that there is no test for, it occured at higher than average speeds, and yes I did go to the junkyard and retrieve my "stuff" (HID, XM radio, etc) She hit me in the passenger side rear quarter panel at approximately 50MPH her speed while I was sliding backwards at roughly 35-40MPH so I count myself as very very fortunate to be alive and well. The limit on that section of Rt. 9 is 55 MPH, the weather was slowing every one down, thank God because I usually do 60 through there. My Mazda did its job to the end, and I am hoping to get an 08 very soon probably this weekend. As an aside I have to say that the accident occured because I should have replaced the rear tires when I replaced the fronts, money issues prevented me from doing so and I deeply regret that. Driving on two different brands of tire in different states of wear is unsafe and stupid and I am ashamed to admit that I did it. I don't really know that ESC would have saved me in this instance as it isn't really intended to compensate for that type of traction condition

[Omar MSP]

thats such a shame, goodluck!

[dbthompson]

As an aside I have to say that the accident occured because I should have replaced the rear tires when I replaced the fronts, money issues prevented me from doing so and I deeply regret that. Driving on two different brands of tire in different states of wear is unsafe and stupid and I am ashamed to admit that I did it. I don't really know that ESC would have saved me in this instance as it isn't really intended to compensate for that type of traction condition

Really glad you made it ok after these additional details - sounds like a net 75 mph impact to the rear quarter panel. Scary!


Everybody out there who is replacing tires: the new recommendation is to put the tire with better traction on the REAR. If you do not, then you will induce oversteer into the handling of the car, possibly leading to an accident such as this.

Most cars are currently designed to understeer at the limits. You can be trained to properly correct oversteer, but it takes a while and access to skidpads. If untrained, understeer is safer.

The idea of ESC is to utilize whatever traction you have to keep the car in line. If you had sufficient grip on the front tires, then ESC could have kept you going straight. Now, whether that prevents you from hitting someone is another matter, but combined with ABS, ESC should have allowed you to maintain some control on your direction. I'm guessing you'd rather have hit a stopped barrier (car in front of you slowing down) than someone going 50 MPH in the opposite direction, so, while it might not have prevented any accident, it should have reduced the severity, and certainly let your impact be one more in-line with the structural protection the Mazda5 is designed for (compare the impacts between a frontal 35 MPH (or less if the other car is moving forward in the same direction) with a rear-quarterpanel at 75MPH: that's the difference ESC could have made!).

Nonetheless, if nothing else, put the tires with better traction on the REAR!

Slvr, definitely see a doctor - that's a major impact!

[bulwnkl]

Most cars are currently designed to understeer at the limits. You can be trained to properly correct oversteer, but it takes a while and access to skidpads. If untrained, understeer is safer.

This is a very sadly perpetuated myth. Correcting oversteer is a nearly natural reaction: steer into the skid. Correcting understeer is... essentially impossible. In a corner, uncorrected oversteer leads to spinning off the inside of the corner. Sounds counterintuitive, but it's absolutely true if you're at all near adhesion limits.

Do you really intend to suggest that this 85-90 mph impact would have resulted in nothing but a stiff neck had it been head-on? Or if he'd simply skidded straight into an oak tree at 50mph? Those two alternatives are the consequence of understeer.

[mrbwa1]

slvrsleeper: A very nasty collision indeed! This is one of the reasons I went with studless snows for both cars ('07 Sport, '01 Toyota Echo). My Echo summer tires aren't to the wear indicators yet, but even close, they are hard and nasty. I ended up with the snows on until 2 weeks ago. I should be able to make this summer season at least.

I guess that extra outlay for wheels and tires might pay off. For those not in the snow bet, all I can say is perhaps a set of 4 Hankooks or even off-brand tires may be safer than 2 brand-name tires.

Here is an article I read a while back that really drive the point about tire pressure and placement:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/laurens.htm

[$chocker]

This is a very sadly perpetuated myth. Correcting oversteer is a nearly natural reaction: steer into the skid. Correcting understeer is... essentially impossible. In a corner, uncorrected oversteer leads to spinning off the inside of the corner. Sounds counterintuitive, but it's absolutely true if you're at all near adhesion limits.

Do you really intend to suggest that this 85-90 mph impact would have resulted in nothing but a stiff neck had it been head-on? Or if he'd simply skidded straight into an oak tree at 50mph? Those two alternatives are the consequence of understeer.

Generally speaking, for most drivers, understeer is the safer norm compared to oversteer. Natural instinct for most drivers when they begin to lose control is to let off the gas immediately. That reaction typically exacerbates oversteer. That same reaction typically lessens understeer. Also, if you are going to hit anything, better to hit with the front end than any other area of the car. Personally, I would typically never replace two tires at a time; I always monitor what's going on with the treadwear and rotate the tires so they are all ready for replacement, or close to it, at the same time. Just my 2cents.

[bulwnkl]

EDIT: Nevermind.

I'm still glad you're OK, slvrsleeper, and am thankful you didn't understeer into the other car so that you were dead.

[coolmazda5]

My 2 pesos: drive consciously and make sure you have tires in a good state. All the technologies available on any car (ABS, ESC, TPMS, ABC, CBS, NBC (blah)) are great but do not substitute conscious driving...

Oh, and $h!t happens too :(...

[$chocker]

glad you're OK, slvrsleeper
No doubt. Glad you're here to tell the story.