So how long has the Cobb AP been out now? And still no dynos?

[Young Roids]

This is rediculous already. I still have yet to see even 1 independent dyno of the Cobb Ap. WTF is taking so long?(headshake

[LENNY127]

dont be surprised if two guys in black suits knock at your door tonight!!!! nice knowing ya man.

[Young Roids]

lololol

I was thinking the same thing. It's some giant Cobb based conspiracy!

[SharkDiver]

To be honest I dont think people are all that happy with the results from the AP and spending another $100 to prove what they thought is not at the top of the list of things to do,Or maybe thats just me..Im still on the fence on keeping this AP.

[Young Roids]

YEa, I haven't seen anything that makes me want to go out and buy one. I was hoping for some dynos to see if it maybe made more power than advertised.

[SharkDiver]

I think most everyone are a bit disappointed in the results from the MS3 AP or maybe we were just expecting to much.Mazda did a better job tuning then we all thought.

[Captain KRM P5]

no offense and not to say 'told ya so', but people really shouldn't have been expecting the second coming of the messiah with initial release of the Accessport. it was known for months that it would not launch with any method for the user or shop to tune the system. the rx8 accessport did not show any better gains when it was released a few weeks back and the stage 1 gains are on par with several other of the stage 1 gains from thier other Accessports on other cars. why the mazdaspeed3 was going to be markedly different or superior out of the gate, i don't see why anyone thought that.

there is a reason why the AP is tuned the way it is the same reason why Mazda tuned the factory ECU the way it is. the tune has to be able to be used by the customer in Anchorage, AK the same way the guy in Miami, FL. ECUs, reflashed or otherwise, need to be able to make adjustments for the infinite variety of conditions that these cars could encounter and are limited by the range of the sensors and the limitations of the ECU itself - thus your maps are going to be very conservative in order to accomodate everyone. This is why you should, for the best results, be tuned specifically for your conditions, your parts, your climate and your driving habits. 99.9% of the time this will always yield a much better result on and off the dyno than an off the shelf map ever will.

this is not Accessport bashing by any means. I feel that the unit has untapped potential that will really be realized once the software is released to the public and shops. newer maps are available from cobb already if i am not mistaken and will likely continue to trickle out as time goes on. i would not give up on the unit, but as a customer's point of view it is hard to justify $700 for something you simply cannot tune.

[dkswim]

no map updates but a very minor firmware update. i havn't dynoed mine but then i wasnt intending on it nor have i dynoed mine stock. but im not a peak numbers kind of guy. i guess thats why the AP appealed to me it was direct plug in and go, solves some drivability issues and minor power inprovements. im sure thats how a lot of the others that bought the AP were, realizing it wasnt a peak thing.

[Young Roids]

no map updates but a very minor firmware update. i havn't dynoed mine but then i wasnt intending on it nor have i dynoed mine stock. but im not a peak numbers kind of guy. i guess thats why the AP appealed to me it was direct plug in and go, solves some drivability issues and minor power inprovements. im sure thats how a lot of the others that bought the AP were, realizing it wasnt a peak thing.

Can't you go back to stock with a push of the button with AP therefore allowing you to do a stock dyno and a stage 1 dyno?

[zim]

Can't you go back to stock with a push of the button with AP therefore allowing you to do a stock dyno and a stage 1 dyno?

theoretically you could but it's not the best idea since flashing resets the ECU. it would have to learn everything all over again and probably wouldn't give true numbers on the dyno.

[shucky]

"makes minor power improvements..." isn't that the perfect excuse for all of the peoeple who bought an AP and are trying to justify their spending $700.00 for nothing. I mean, whats the point? Why spend $700.00 at all? Before release, everyone was praying to the "cobble cobble" gods for this thing to be released. Then when it actually is released, the fans all cry, "I didn't buy it for a power mod..." "We all knew it wouldn't make any power" Thats funny.

[cageyvet]

Regardless, of the accessports out of the box power increase, consumers that purchase the accessport prior to the tuner software being released are not getting an entire evaluation of the product they purchased. After, the tuner software becomes available there are still going to be a multitude of shops that will not tune the accessport. Personally, i'd find a performance shop that I was comfortable with and check with them on their tuning ability/recommendations on any after market ems before purchase.

[Aaron@JSC]

If you are really serious about making power with the MS3, you have to get custom tuned. I think that, in all honesty, there aren't that many people that fall into the mod level that the Cobb OTS maps tune for. Once the pro-tuning software is available, I think that more people will be running it with much better gains.

[lamp3]

Well after driving around lastnight and getting nothing but wheelsspin in 1,2 gear. I'm stock with cobb sri right now. Have the AP sitting been debating wether to install it or not. I'm not sure why ppl are bitching about not being able to light em up in second anymore with the ap. Theres nothing more frustrating for me coming from a car that hooks (STi) than spinng and not gettin down the damn road! lol I think I have just decided to go ahead and install my ap and give it a shot. if they've tamed the wheel spin in the first 2 gears while making the higher gears strong, I'm having a hard time seeing how it CANT get down the road better.

[SwampAss]

Can I ask a silly question?


My friend has a CPE-Standback in his car. Would the Cobb AP be comparable in power gains to the base map in the Standback?

[dkswim]

swamp what kind of gains are YOU getting with standback

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Swamp what kind of gain is your friend getting with his standback?

Fixed

[SwampAss]

My friend's name is Junglebutt. He says he thinks it's substantial but is reluctant to assign a number to it. Maybe what the TMIC and intake combined added. Maybe a little bit over that.

[dkswim]

i ment what i said. i dont buy it swamp, has friends i mean come on. hes a jack ass (look at his pic) playing... what kind of gains are YOU getting from YOUR standback.

and i knew from the begining that cobb wasnt going to give us the most power out of there off the shelf maps. but what they did give us is a way to get gains and make car more refined without cutting and splicing into the cars electricle harness. ive had some bad experiance with piggyback and splicing into the harness before fortunently it wasnt my car so i had no say on what my friend did to his car.

im running stage 2+ and there are gains i just reverted back to stock baybass valve and its buts you in the seat a little more. i couldnt asighn a number to it but thats beacuse i havnt done any dynos. my guess in a 30-90 mph run it would add a car leagth or two.

[SwampAss]

(cricket)

[desperado-c]

"makes minor power improvements..." isn't that the perfect excuse for all of the peoeple who bought an AP and are trying to justify their spending $700.00 for nothing. I mean, whats the point? Why spend $700.00 at all? Before release, everyone was praying to the "cobble cobble" gods for this thing to be released. Then when it actually is released, the fans all cry, "I didn't buy it for a power mod..." "We all knew it wouldn't make any power" Thats funny.

There are big two reasons and as the Captain states, neither applies right now: Race tuning s/w with any mods and Pro tuning s/w if you're gonna ever do the TBE/FMIC mods or a bigger turbo.

I like the part throttle drivability improvements and I feel more (and more even) WOT power as time goes on, but it might not be enough. I was expecting a super solid tune with tons of smooth power under the curve if not much on the peak. I don't feel like I have that, but I'll give it a little longer. Right now, with summer heat coming on, I think I'd rather have a better TMIC. Maybe I'll buy that and then wait for the tuning s/w to come and buy the AP again.

[Young Roids]

"makes minor power improvements..." isn't that the perfect excuse for all of the peoeple who bought an AP and are trying to justify their spending $700.00 for nothing. I mean, whats the point? Why spend $700.00 at all? Before release, everyone was praying to the "cobble cobble" gods for this thing to be released. Then when it actually is released, the fans all cry, "I didn't buy it for a power mod..." "We all knew it wouldn't make any power" Thats funny.

Right on. You summed it up so perfectly I had to lol about it. I couldn't agree more.

[LENNY127]

I will be installing mine today and will do a comparison over the next week on my g-tech to see if I can pick up any differences good or bad. (not a dyno but I will do 3 0-100 blasts in stock with ms CAI and 3 in stage 1 with ms CAI see if something jives. (and I will monitor outside temp and engine temp as well to make it fair)

[Capt Crunch]

The reason nobody is making power is because there aren't any experienced tuners.

The OTS Cobb maps for Subarus suck as well, but you sure as shit would not be able to make 250 whp on a WRX with an exhaust (via a custom tune) if you didn't have engine management. Once there are experienced tuners who know the ins and outs of the MS3, I'm sure we'll see good gains.

I'm not sure why there are a bunch of people patting themselves on the back on how they predicted that the AP wouldn't make serious power. What's more mind-boggling is how they compare the results to the RX8. Folks, the whole reason the AP is great is because the MS3 is turbocharged, and just like every other turbocharged car in existence, it has a huge amount of potential waiting to be tapped. DSM, WRX, STI, Evo, SRT-4, 335i, etc. You need engine-management to do it, and the Cobb AP is the best one currently.

[desperado-c]

....Folks, the whole reason the AP is great is because the MS3 is turbocharged, and just like every other turbocharged car in existence, it has a huge amount of potential waiting to be tapped. DSM, WRX, STI, Evo, SRT-4, 335i, etc. You need engine-management to do it, and the Cobb AP is the best one currently.

Yeah, but all those cars have larger turbos. I wonder how much more there is to get safely out of this turbo even with engine management. I guess it with a different downpipe it might be more substantial?

[Captain KRM P5]

You need engine-management to do it, and the Cobb AP is the best one currently.

i think it will eventually be the best one. i do not think a system that is locked out to the shop and end user in terms of tuning is the best one currently. if people want to do some in depth tuning right now, there are a few other systems which offer that.

[SharkDiver]

i think it will eventually be the best one. i do not think a system that is locked out to the shop and end user in terms of tuning is the best one currently. if people want to do some in depth tuning right now, there are a few other systems which offer that.

+1

[Capt Crunch]

Yeah, but all those cars have larger turbos. I wonder how much more there is to get safely out of this turbo even with engine management. I guess it with a different downpipe it might be more substantial?

GTI has a smaller turbo and it get great gains with engine management as well.


i think it will eventually be the best one. i do not think a system that is locked out to the shop and end user in terms of tuning is the best one currently. if people want to do some in depth tuning right now, there are a few other systems which offer that.

The streettuner software isn't out yet? That sucks. Still, people like me prefer to be tuned by a "professional." I know tuning isn't rocket science, but having technical support and an idea of expected gains as indicated by the tuner's past experience is worth the money. Right now if I had my STI I'd KNOW that if I had an exhaust and got tuned by tuner X, I'd have 300 whp. Not so if I tried it out myself. Still, it's too bad the street tuner software isn't out yet.

[Captain KRM P5]

a shop in our area might be getting the prototype version of the ms3 streettuner, if that happens i'll let you know

[SharkDiver]

I hope you let me know because Im only about 1.5 Hrs away from you...

[lamp3]

Stage 1 on my sti wasn't a huge improvement, but it could be felt. Now stage 2 on that car with a full 3" catless TBE transformed the car. More power everywhere, more boost, spooled quicker, and the higher gears pulled like mad compared to stock or stage 1. With the protune it got even nastier.

[nig3]

Can I ask a silly question?


My friend has a CPE-Standback in his car. Would the Cobb AP be comparable in power gains to the base map in the Standback?

cobb would be way better because its not a piggyback, piggyback systems like the cpe standback are poo poo.

[SwampAss]

My friend disagrees. His car will beat up your car.

[Captain KRM P5]

cobb would be way better because its not a piggyback, piggyback systems like the cpe standback are poo poo.

sorry if this offends, but this is an ignorant statement. guy asked if the gains between the two unit's basemaps were comparable and you respond with "cobb is better because its not a piggyback" which not only is a subjective remark, but doesn't even address the question properly. its like asking if and apple tastes good and answering that an orange tastes great because its an orange.

i love how people jump on the "piggybacks are crap" bandwagon when right now piggybacks are the only systems that can be tuned by shops or users, have shown excellent dyno gains when tuned right, have shown excellent street performance results when tuned right. when the accessport has the ability to do all of this, then i'll be convinced that its a better solution. right now, it can't and therefore it is not.

[MS3077]

sorry if this offends, but this is an ignorant statement. guy asked if the gains between the two unit's basemaps were comparable and you respond with "cobb is better because its not a piggyback" which not only is a subjective remark, but doesn't even address the question properly. its like asking if and apple tastes good and answering that an orange tastes great because its an orange.

i love how people jump on the "piggybacks are crap" bandwagon when right now piggybacks are the only systems that can be tuned by shops or users, have shown excellent dyno gains when tuned right, have shown excellent street performance results when tuned right. when the accessport has the ability to do all of this, then i'll be convinced that its a better solution. right now, it can't and therefore it is not.

But are they a safe solution?

[Captain KRM P5]

But are they a safe solution?

any engine management system that is not tuned properly is not a safe solution. i don't care if its a standback, an XEDE or an accessport with streettuner or protuner. if its not tuned right its not safe. piggyback, reflash or standalone, period. and its more than just an air/fuel ratio or EGT. if you want a guaranteed safe solution, its the stock ECU and zero mods. there is a reason the car is tuned the way it is from the factory. not trying to be a devil's advocate but its the truth.

we have had a dozen mazdaspeed3s and two mazdaspeed6s running the XEDE, some with extremely aggressive tunes, for over a year now and not one of them has popped his engine because of it. we've tuned standbacks on mazdaspeed6s locally and they have been on the cars for months prior to that and not a one has blown.

lets face it, every manufacturer has hype they will spin as to why thier system is the best or better. what people need to look at is the results of each product and judge for themselves. ignore the spin, ignore the hype, look at your car, your parts and your ultimate goals and then choose where to spend your hard earned cash on the solution that fits all of those.

[SwampAss]

And also, wire in piggy backs aren't a "set and forget" type install either. Some cars have issues that need to be tuned out. My standback surges @ WOT. I need to call Jordan @ CP-E to help me tune it out. He said he knows what causes it and will tell me what to change. Now if I can find the time to do it!

Regardless of whether it's a flash or a piggy back, it's going to need a little tweaking. It's the nature of the beast. For those who plugged up the Cobb accessport and were immediately displeased, wait it out. When more tunes are available, then decide.

[smakdown61]

any engine management system that is not tuned properly is not a safe solution. i don't care if its a standback, an XEDE or an accessport with streettuner or protuner. if its not tuned right its not safe. piggyback, reflash or standalone, period. and its more than just an air/fuel ratio or EGT. if you want a guaranteed safe solution, its the stock ECU and zero mods. there is a reason the car is tuned the way it is from the factory. not trying to be a devil's advocate but its the truth.

we have had a dozen mazdaspeed3s and two mazdaspeed6s running the XEDE, some with extremely aggressive tunes, for over a year now and not one of them has popped his engine because of it. we've tuned standbacks on mazdaspeed6s locally and they have been on the cars for months prior to that and not a one has blown.

lets face it, every manufacturer has hype they will spin as to why thier system is the best or better. what people need to look at is the results of each product and judge for themselves. ignore the spin, ignore the hype, look at your car, your parts and your ultimate goals and then choose where to spend your hard earned cash on the solution that fits all of those.

The guy over on the 6 forums running the standback and a gt3071 popped his engine a few days ago. AFR's were fine and everything so they attributed it to the engine basically having a max of 350whp before blowing.

[squabbin]

i should have some stage 2+ results to post in the next 2 or 3 weeks...

[nig3]

sorry if this offends, but this is an ignorant statement. guy asked if the gains between the two unit's basemaps were comparable and you respond with "cobb is better because its not a piggyback" which not only is a subjective remark, but doesn't even address the question properly. its like asking if and apple tastes good and answering that an orange tastes great because its an orange.

i love how people jump on the "piggybacks are crap" bandwagon when right now piggybacks are the only systems that can be tuned by shops or users, have shown excellent dyno gains when tuned right, have shown excellent street performance results when tuned right. when the accessport has the ability to do all of this, then i'll be convinced that its a better solution. right now, it can't and therefore it is not.
just saying that piggybacks are crap thats all.... piggybacks monitor and manipulate oem sensors to change things up , they dont actually change shit though ie. pulsewidth of the injector or timming points that im aware of, correct me if im wrong though, i havent messed with any piggybacks in a few years LOL and they sucked back then too

[squabbin]

just saying that piggybacks are crap thats all.... piggybacks monitor and manipulate oem sensors to change things up , they dont actually change shit though ie. pulsewidth of the injector or timming points that im aware of, correct me if im wrong though, i havent messed with any piggybacks in a few years LOL and they sucked back then too

LoL, oh boy here we go...

[dkswim]

personaly i have not had good experiance with a piggyback system. thankfully it wasnt my car. thats why for a daily driver i like the plug and play options. wether it be a reflash or an ap. granted there are limitations on all system. my problem is cutting into the harness.

[SwampAss]

just saying that piggybacks are crap thats all.... piggybacks monitor and manipulate oem sensors to change things up , they dont actually change shit though ie. pulsewidth of the injector or timming points that im aware of, correct me if im wrong though, i havent messed with any piggybacks in a few years LOL and they sucked back then too

So, a flash load doesn't use OEM sensors?

There are advantages to either. To say one sucks over the other is ignorant.

[Captain KRM P5]

just saying that piggybacks are crap thats all.... piggybacks monitor and manipulate oem sensors to change things up , they dont actually change shit though ie. pulsewidth of the injector or timming points that im aware of, correct me if im wrong though, i havent messed with any piggybacks in a few years LOL and they sucked back then too

thats fine and dandy, but you cannot ignore the simple facts that regardless of whatever your opinion was a few years ago or is now, piggybacks can work and do work and they are the only systems producing repeatable results that provide a serious gain. there is nothing wrong with how a system works when what it does works. indirectly, they do the things you talk about - adjust timing tables and draw back injector pulsing. it won't be long before a wire-in piggyback or standalone can easily and directly manipulate those things. there is also little evidence on this platform, to date mind you, that doing so is going to make a real difference.


my problem is cutting into the harness.

rest assured you are not the only one with this dilemma.


So, a flash load doesn't use OEM sensors?

There are advantages to either. To say one sucks over the other is ignorant.

a reflash alters the coding on the ECU and what it does with the sensor signals being fed to it. a piggyback alters the sensor signals going to the ECU to achieve a desired result. fundamentally, ask any layman to tell you how either is different. not that simple.


The guy over on the 6 forums running the standback and a gt3071 popped his engine a few days ago. AFR's were fine and everything so they attributed it to the engine basically having a max of 350whp before blowing.

like i said, AFRs are not everything. you can have a perfect air/fuel ratio and be beyond the mechanical limitations of the engine. a lean or rich air fuel mixture or cool EGT in no way measures the stress being put on the bottom end or the true amount of physical load being placed on the rotating assembly. and yes, i do think 350 is at the mechanical limitations of the factory bottom end. it is false hope to think anything otherwise.

[nig3]

So, a flash load doesn't use OEM sensors?

There are advantages to either. To say one sucks over the other is ignorant.

dude on a piggyback fuel controller it works with the mafs and controls the fuel curve by delaying or altering mafs signal voltage trick the ecu to trick it into running richer or leaner and has slower response. with a reflash or standalone you have the huge advantage of actually changing injector pulse width timing acording to load / RPMs ect.... i hope you understand where im coming from, im not just talking out my ass here.

[nig3]

anyway back to the main subject here, im getting my AP tomorrow and will be getting re-dynoed after the new reflash breaks in for a few days, probably fri night. hope i hit 300whp!

[Young Roids]

anyway back to the main subject here, im getting my AP tomorrow and will be getting re-dynoed after the new reflash breaks in for a few days, probably fri night. hope i hit 300whp!

look foreward to your dynos.

[aaronc7]

same...saturday for me

[Young Roids]

Cool. looking foreward to yours as well.

[MS3077]

nig3 has the coolest fucking avator I've ever seen :)

[Young Roids]

OK guys, yet again I will ask: Where are the dynos? Two guys have said they would have them up and still nothing. I get more sceptical by the day.

[aaronc7]

hey man check the other forums I've posted up stuff. Car definitely wasn't running near as strong as it could haev been since I wasn't running the right AP map for my setup. Now that the FMIC is out it rips. Hope to get a dyno soon. Target boost is 19.1 psi!

[justa4banger]

and yes, i do think 350 is at the mechanical limitations of the factory bottom end. it is false hope to think anything otherwise.

Man that kind of sucks.....
My 30+year old iron motor popped a Rod at 438whp and tons of abuse. Were talking 50= dyno pulls, all well over 350+whp and about 12 pver 400+whp. i must have had 50 +passes at the track, plus i just beat the crap out of the ole 2.3 in the SVO.

All this on CAST RODS, CAST CRANK, and stock block. The only upgrade i had was ARP rod bolts.

All this on 28 psi , pump gass and 3 cans of torco........:D

either way i still love my MS3.

[borderline]

I'm gonna go to dyno saturday
I will show you the result sunday. Mods are: CPE CAI, turboback and the COBB AP.

[pidass15]

I'm gonna go to dyno saturday
I will show you the result sunday. Mods are: CPE CAI, turboback and the COBB AP.

How are you gonna run? 1 run with stock map loaded and 1 run with stg2+ loaded?

[borderline]

How are you gonna run? 1 run with stock map loaded and 1 run with stg2+ loaded?
I will try to do both to make a good comparaison

[Young Roids]

You should do 1 run without the ap loaded at all.

[dkswim]

do first run with it loaded prefably after a couple days of driving withthat map. the uninstall takes less time or you can reflash the stock like map.

[mrlilguy157]

You should do 1 run without the ap loaded at all.


do first run with it loaded prefably after a couple days of driving withthat map. the uninstall takes less time or you can reflash the stock like map.

x2

[destrux]

To the guy who said that someone popped a motor and it had to be the motor hit it's mechanical limits because the AFR's were ok.... you're forgetting about the possibility of too much timing advance and spark knock, along with about 50 other things that can kill a motor that's running with a safe AFR. Although, I'm not saying that 350 whp (which is about 400hp) isn't the mechanical limit of a MZR... it probably is. It seems that 400 crank hp is the magical number for quite a few popular import motors. I know it's about all a B series, K series and a 4G63 6-bolt can handle without any internal upgrades.

Back to the AP.... so from what I've gathered so far... the AP is pointless if you only have a few mods. At least till the tuning software comes out and you can use it to custom flash. From everything I've read online...nobody has seen any major gains that were enough to run out and dyno immediately. At least.. no gains like the 20-40hp that I saw some people predicting would come from a cookie cutter reflash cleaning up supposedly sloppy factory tuning.

I'll change my mind if someone posts dyno sheets to prove otherwise.

[borderline]

Very disappointing from the results. I have not even picked up my sheet, it was not worth
227 whp on stage 2 + MSCAI (version 1.01)
so disappointed that I did not notice my torque.
my mods: CAI + turboback + COBB

There's something that I dont understand. On the road, the difference is there.
I did ONLY one single run, I did not had time to do 2 or more (We were a bunch of folks)
But I doubt the accuracy of the dyno. He had to repair a valve on the dyno when I was on it, something went wrong.

First, temp was hot and humid.
Second: I noticed that my AFR past 5000 rpm, was in th 10.1-10.3 range which is PIGGY RICH. WTF?

I do not know if this is due to my spark plugs (I must check them soon)
Before making the dyno, I made a ride of about 136 mile on stage 2. Maybe I should have to do more.

I also bug on the fact that I peak only 15 PSI with the stage 2, With My OEM map, I was peaking at 21 PSI.

This was not my best shot!
I will retry in the next week and will see

[Munnugles]

Very disappointing from the results. I have not even picked up my sheet, it was not worth
227 whp on stage 2 + MSCAI (version 1.01)
so disappointed that I did not notice my torque.
my mods: CAI + turboback + COBB

There's something that I dont understand. On the road, the difference is there.
I did ONLY one single run, I did not had time to do 2 or more (We were a bunch of folks)
But I doubt the accuracy of the dyno. He had to repair a valve on the dyno when I was on it, something went wrong.

First, temp was hot and humid.
Second: I noticed that my AFR past 5000 rpm, was in th 10.1-10.3 range which is PIGGY RICH. WTF?

I do not know if this is due to my spark plugs (I must check them soon)
Before making the dyno, I made a ride of about 136 mile on stage 2. Maybe I should have to do more.

I also bug on the fact that I peak only 15 PSI with the stage 2, With My OEM map, I was peaking at 21 PSI.

This was not my best shot!
I will retry in the next week and will see


wow thats low... i made 250 with tmic, cai, and bov... either somethings wrong with the dyno, or your car...

things like these kinda not make me wanna go with cobb right now... and ive been debating with either cobb, fmic, or rims...

[Young Roids]

Borderline, What kind of dyno was this on? My afrs were way rich on my stock run. I had better numbers but this was on a dynojet wich is one of the highest reading dynos around.http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2420/2502224609_0e59b29615_o.jpg

Stock car, no mods.

[dkswim]

yeah im curious what brand of dyno. beacause if on mustang thats not that bad. and i cant think of the brand thats even lower reading then a mustang. then to top it all off it was dyno day whhere there was a ton of cars so the place just wants to get you on run you and get you off ther not just doing it for you there is 20-30 others there as well.

how long was the map loaded up? did it have enough time to learn your map?

[Nachtsturm]

dyno's are nearly pointless. Take it to the track and see what it traps at.

If it traps 105-106, then who cares. But if it traps 98-99. Then you blew 600 dollars for the chance of increasing your mpg's.

[Young Roids]

Dyno dynamics read pretty low as well.

[LENNY127]

I agree with nachstrum 100%. really simple. do a 1/4 mile run with the AP as the measuring device. Launch the car at idle to eliminate wheelspin (I know the 1/4 mile times will suck but we are after HP readings which the trap speed will tell.) do one with the stage 2 and one with the stock style v.101 then let us know what the traps speed are on both. with those mods trap speed should be 102-103...let us know if u do test it.

[aaronc7]

103-104 stock
104.5 Stage 2 + SF with 170 lb passenger

[meha11]

Very disappointing from the results. I have not even picked up my sheet, it was not worth
227 whp on stage 2 + MSCAI (version 1.01)
so disappointed that I did not notice my torque.
my mods: CAI + turboback + COBB



Something is very wrong there, with a bit of luck you just wasted $100 on the dyno and your power is actually higher than that.

with ems i personally would fully expect ~300whp and that is plenty for this car (with supporting bolt-ons)

Just to give you some hope, i dynod 274hp/292tq last year with cia, tbe and tmic, no other mods. Numbers dont mean a thing, if you can break traction in 2nd from a roll then you have plenty of power.

[borderline]

Yeah something was wrong with the dyno, I don't know what kind of dyno it is but it is similar to that:
http://www.fst.umac.mo/en/lab/ael/image012.jpg

I will try the COBB feature with the 1.01 and stock style and will see the difference
I think that I should have about 300WHP too(dunno)

[Nachtsturm]

103-104 stock
104.5 Stage 2 + SF with 170 lb passenger

That is nearly useless not given the same conditions. But just for paper racing sake, say every 100lbs is a mph and every mph is 10hp.

That would roughly equate to 22hp increase. Only real way to tell would be same day, same conditions run at the track and look at the mph.


Numbers dont mean a thing, if you can break traction in 2nd from a roll then you have plenty of power.

I can do that in my MS3 now with just an intake. And it need more power.

Also my 240whp SRT would smoke em from a roll in 2nd. Awsome stuff.

[aaronc7]

no shit. the only difference was time of day. same stretch of road etc. All done by the APs 1/4 mile feature thing. and I didnt launch at all, was trying to keep it as consistent as possible.

[ericrapp]

Something is very wrong there, with a bit of luck you just wasted $100 on the dyno and your power is actually higher than that.

with ems i personally would fully expect ~300whp and that is plenty for this car (with supporting bolt-ons)

Just to give you some hope, i dynod 274hp/292tq last year with cia, tbe and tmic, no other mods. Numbers dont mean a thing, if you can break traction in 2nd from a roll then you have plenty of power. Hey, I can break traction with my Nittos, a little bit in second now! Traction in second is now what third was on stock tires. Those numbers are as Mazda god intended. nice work 11!!

[ztuner]

Here is a link to my dyno runs with the AP - Please read the notes section completely to better analyse the dyno.
http://ztuner.com/ms3dyno.htm

[Young Roids]

Here is a link to my dyno runs with the AP - Please read the notes section completely to better analyse the dyno.
http://ztuner.com/ms3dyno.htm

(cool) Finally! a before and after dyno with the AP. Thank you my good man.

Now as far as results go the maps do hold power a little bit longer but they do also create less hp than stock. From these results i would not buy an AP for $700.

P.S. they do also lean it out a bit so that would help mpg probly.

[dkswim]

what are your mods? how long was car able to run in the new maps.

[ericrapp]

Here is a link to my dyno runs with the AP - Please read the notes section completely to better analyse the dyno.
http://ztuner.com/ms3dyno.htm
Thanks for some good data!

[upnygimp]

(cool) Finally! a before and after dyno with the AP. Thank you my good man.

Now as far as results go the maps do hold power a little bit longer but they do also create less hp than stock. From these results i would not buy an AP for $700.

P.S. they do also lean it out a bit so that would help mpg probly.

Just because the peak HP number is about .5HP lower?

1) It makes more power over the entire rev range
2) It makes more torque over the entire rev range
3) It leans the map out

Just based on those 3 points alone I'd buy one.

[Young Roids]

If that's worth $700 for you then buy it.

[silversurfer513]

Getting on the dyno at P&L Motorsports in Chicago on Thursday. I will ask Jorge to post the sheets when we are done. Stage 1+ map with the Cobb SRI.

[upnygimp]

If that's worth $700 for you then buy it.

It's absolutely worth it. These are just the early version maps, slightly better than Mazda's but still made with a very broad brush to cover all conditions and areas. Once they release the software to the tuners, you can get a finer map more suited to where you live. At that point, you should see some much better gains.

I understand that its not a mod that will give you instant gratification in the form of noises, but its the foundation to making better than stock power in your car.

[schmitty]

I like how the AP allows the MS3 to hold power past 5500. I think I am going to hold off on purchasing it until there are better maps, but only because I don't have 700USD laying around. :LOL:

[ericrapp]

It's absolutely worth it. These are just the early version maps, slightly better than Mazda's but still made with a very broad brush to cover all conditions and areas. Once they release the software to the tuners, you can get a finer map more suited to where you live. At that point, you should see some much better gains.

I understand that its not a mod that will give you instant gratification in the form of noises, but its the foundation to making better than stock power in your car. And that, if true, is the best way to approach tuning.

[ztuner]

more updates this time with a Cobb Sri + the AP. I think you will find the results interesting to say the least.

http://ztuner.com/ms3dyno.htm

Harry

[Vengure]

more updates this time with a Cobb Sri + the AP. I think you will find the results interesting to say the least.

http://ztuner.com/ms3dyno.htm

Harry

Looks like you have had some promising results and like others have stated hopefully we can get better tunes once the groups have the time to fine everything for your driving conditions.

[FrequentFlyer]

Wow. 20whp/30ft-lb for $175 (Cobb SRI). Pretty nice bang for the buck for the intake.

[ztuner]

i am switching to the new cobb FT map today will dyno it saturday - lets see if it makes a difference.

Harry

[ericrapp]

Oh boy. I love this part! Thanks Z

[IDRVSLO]

Ztuner go back to that site and check the first page in the thread. There is another update with a true all the way to redline full throttle map. It is the MSF specific map!

[WTF MATE]

The guy over on the 6 forums running the standback and a gt3071 popped his engine a few days ago. AFR's were fine and everything so they attributed it to the engine basically having a max of 350whp before blowing.

I also find this hard to believe with the MZR. I agree with Destrux, there had to be other factors coming into play with the tuning. I've had multiple open deck honda motors tuned to over 300hp with stock internals and cast pistons. Over 400hp with just a set of forged pistons and upgraded fueling, this is on weak little honda rods. I have a hard time believing that a motor with forged internals running the compression it is, with the direct injection would have a problem running over 400hp. If you can tune a stock block honda 1.6l to 507hp with just a set of pistons and bolt-ons there should be no problem doing it with a 2.3l motor with forged internals and a much better fueling system.

[WTF MATE]

I am curious as to weather anyone has tried out the econo setting. I'm wondering what the improvements were on the gas mileage.

[Captain KRM P5]

we have the CP-e reflash available now if anyone wants to try that;

http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/product_info.php?products_id=1488

[ztuner]

ok i added the latest Stage 1 + Sri map with the following mods
SRi
Forge BPV - (made no difference other than sound IMO)
Ap - (obvious)
CS race pipe
CS mount inserts

I am still driving around waiting for the fuel trims etc to sort themselves out but seat of the pant impressions are ....
1. Smooth pull to 6500 , barely any power drop off
2. Boost hits 17.5 drops to 15.5
3. Shifting VASTLY improved with the inserts in the tranny mount

Initially the boost was hitting higher but its started to drop off. Maybe the ecu is setting lower limits - i don't know. Anyhow i will dyno it after i have a few miles on it, then reinstall the map to clear all trims and dyno it. I want to verify if this "learning" claim is BS or not :)

I will have my dashhawk soon so i will be able to post some logs to match the dynoes.

Soon after i will be installing the CS down pipe :)

stay tuned

Harry

[ndedomin]

Is anyone going to do that cp-e full control flash? It sounds like a nice mod...

[slo4now]

Im gonna try this reflash, i just need to see how long my car will
be down, and if my mods are ok for this.

[fructus]

Maybe I'm missing something, but does it make sense to spend $399 for a CP-E flash when you can get a full throttle map with Cobb AP?

[dkswim]

lets not forget the head ache of having your car down for a couple of days to send your pcm/ecu/ whatever you want to call the computer in to have it reflashed.

[FrequentFlyer]

Just keep in mind this CP-E reflash is a one shot deal. Flash it and forget it. If you plan on tuning some more, it's really a waste of money if you figure $300 more gets you something that you can reflash at will. I had both a user tunable ECU and then a reflashed ECU for my RSX. The tunable one was just too much ECU for me and really overkill, so I went with the reflash and to be honest, I didn't feel too much of a difference between the two (I never got the tunable one dyno tuned).

[ztuner]

1st dyno -256 whp, 263 ft lbs tq
Stock Mazda map
Cobb Sri
CS race pipe
Forge BPV

2nd dyno - 239 whp 243 ft lbs tq
Cobb AP - Stage 1+Sri 101msf
Cobb Sri
CS race pipe
Forge BPV

good news - race pipes work all over the rpm range. Makes between 7 - 10 whp and similar torque. Gets beter at higher rpms

bad news - 101msf map performs virtually identical to the old map. TPS shows 72 % on the DH and the AP

good news - the 101 map produced a smaller boost spike 17.5 vs 18.5 and it held boost higher longer. As a result there was a virtually 0 knock count vs the 2 - 3 with the stock tune.
AP tune still makes more power between 5700 and 6500. IMO mostly because it holds more boost and its leaner.

Besides this
AP tune is significantly leaner between 5500 to 6500 rpm
AP tune pulls between 2 - 4 deg in the spoolup area (2500 to 3500 rpm)
AP tune pulls virtually no timing between 3500 to 4500 rpm
Ap tune pulls 2 Deg at 5000, 4 deg at 5500, 6 deg by 6500 rpm

No question the AP tune is smoother in power delivery and produces a wider power band at the expense of peak power.

Dyno sheets are being compiled

Harry

[ericrapp]

Looking forward to the graphs, and and some good information posted Thanks. I imagine quite a few people here will appreciate your helpfulness with details and info!

[tru-boost]

COBB sent me an email asking me if i ever bought a AP. they wanted me to test out some new maps. i laughed and said no way did i buy one nor would i unless i saw one actually make an IMPROVEMET on a car. all i have seen as if yet are lower dyno numbers and slower ET's !! i told them i would try their maps if they sent me an AP for free !!

[WTF MATE]

Bump for anyone trying out the econo setting on the Cobb? I want to know how much better the gas mileage is.

[ztuner]

new dyno sheets are up

http://ztuner.com/ms3dyno.htm

[freeflyfreak]

new dyno sheets are up

http://ztuner.com/ms3dyno.htm

Excellent work Harry.

It seems like every tune gets a little bit better.
BUT and its a big but, most of the gain over a stock car is from hardware mods.
The AP gives a slightly higher average HP and torque but some areas of the curve lose in what I would call the daily driver area of the curve and the real gains are only at high rpms.

For my daily driver, Im thinking Id perfer the stock tune with the hardware mods, I rarely get over 5500rpm anyway.

For a racer though, the cobb may be better, more area under the curve, more power up high.

What is obvious so far is the real gains are hardware related, not much ooooomph from software...... yet.

[ericrapp]

good call fff and I agree with the yet part also

[Young Roids]

Excellent work Harry.

It seems like every tune gets a little bit better.
BUT and its a big but, most of the gain over a stock car is from hardware mods.
The AP gives a slightly higher average HP and torque but some areas of the curve lose in what I would call the daily driver area of the curve and the real gains are only at high rpms.

For my daily driver, Im thinking Id perfer the stock tune with the hardware mods, I rarely get over 5500rpm anyway.

For a racer though, the cobb may be better, more area under the curve, more power up high.

What is obvious so far is the real gains are hardware related, not much ooooomph from software...... yet.

Look at the cpe fullcontroll flash now by comparison and look at all the power they are making everywhere. My choice would be clear if I was in the market for an ecu solution. Not only does cpe make about 20 peak hp but the lower end is greatly improved in comparison to the cobb maps wich barley improve anything at all.