Cobb AP - No Dyno = Fail

[Bravnik]

I know a lot of people are going to be getting the AP today and tomorrow. Lets just stop all of the BS now and don't bother posting unless you have a Before/After dyno. If you spent $700 on the AP, you have to have $50 to get a Dyno done.

Posts with WOW you must get this and my Butt Dyno shows a drastic improvement mean jack. As they old saying goes.....Pics or it didn't happen!!! All the Mazda forums already have too much of the old "It's the greatest thing sense sex" people and then everyone jumps to buy what they talked about (Synapsis BPV anyone?) and it all turns out to be BS.

Post your Dyno results and then discuss.

[Christian.]

I agree, although, please understand that we made significant qualitative improvement in the calibrations and the only way for some to describe how the vehicle drives is by qualitative rhetoric (language), driving quality impressions, etc. Qualitative data has not not been set up for easy quantitative analysis so the only way to describe some things will be by describing butt dyno impressions or driving quality impressions. I and many others thought the car was very jumpy with the stock tune and we spent extensive time smoothing things out...I don't know how else to describe it.

Christian.

[Bravnik]

Oh I can understand someone saying the car runs smoother and such. I'm talking more about those that will say its a power house now or OMG it's never pulled this hard.

Changes will be felt I'm sure and the car probably drives much better I have no doubt. I'm more about seeing what the HP/TQ curves look like on adverage cars and what kind of before and afters we will see.

An AP is in my plans but not until I finish my mods and tuning software is available at my Tuner. After this weekend I will be just a DP and EMani short of complete. Once that is done I will be ready to get the AP and do some tuning :)

[SPEED3TYPE2]

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[Christian.]

Changes will be felt I'm sure and the car probably drives much better I have no doubt. I'm more about seeing what the HP/TQ curves look like on adverage cars and what kind of before and afters we will see.Me too ;)

[billyrohm]

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[4thStroke]

Stock map dyno run vs. reflashed Cobb dyno run will not represent what the AP is capable of.

First, you take a map that has been driven a lot, knows the fuel, climate, etc. It has learned what it needs to to make power. Then, you flash a fresh Cobb map, and now you have a map that still has a lot of learning to do.

You can do the dynos after each map has had equal time to learn assuming each map was used under the same driving conditions, but it takes time. As time passes, the temperature, humidity, etc., change.

I flashed to stage 1+SF today. I really hope the ECU will advance a lot more, it is definatly smoother, but doesnt seem to be leaps and bounds faster than before. Granted, I only took it for a 10 mile drive... I wish these ECUs werent so damn smart sometimes, I have no patience.

If you are going to look at the AP as $700 for 20hp, it will not appeal to you.

[LENNY127]

I think equally important is (for those who have access to it) either with a DashHawk , G-Tech or good old fashioned 1320' track. Post results. I use a G-tech that I tried my best to calibrate to match my results at the track and with the couple of mods I have done I have been able to see what it meant in the real world. As soon as I get mine (next week, ordered but who knows when su will ship) I will post the results. (just to clarify these devices do pick up on changes. example before the ms cai my trap speed was 97.something after the ms cai it went to 99.something which reflects a 20hp increase)

[4thStroke]

1320'? Whats that?

People get so stuck on dynos its pathetic. They fail to realize its a tuning device and comparing a 245whp run to Cobb Mustang dyno breaks their heart and they think Cobb is full of shit.

Just kidding about the 1320' thing. Im anxious to see how mine does.

[jp4130]

I think equally important is (for those who have access to it) either with a DashHawk , G-Tech or good old fashioned 1320' track. Post results. I use a G-tech that I tried my best to calibrate to match my results at the track and with the couple of mods I have done I have been able to see what it meant in the real world. As soon as I get mine (next week, ordered but who knows when su will ship) I will post the results. (just to clarify these devices do pick up on changes. example before the ms cai my trap speed was 97.something after the ms cai it went to 99.something which reflects a 20hp increase)


Hey lenny does your g-tech read rpm properly on your speed 3? Mine worked great on my old car, but on my speed 3 it will not read rpms at all.

[desperado-c]

Me too ;)

Oh, you're going with the MBC and MAP clamp, then?

[smakdown61]

This is why cobb offers a 30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. If you don't think the smoothed out power delivery is worth it for $700 when you try it, box it up, and send it back. It should only cost you a few bucks in shipping it back since you can get it shipped free to you from almost any vendor. If you guys want uber hp/tq gains, I can tell you right now to go spend 80 bucks on a MBC and MAP clamp and go awe at your dyno.

[slo4now]

I think 40-50HP dyno proven out of this little cookie might just do the trick
for me, I just have to wait to see if it will work with my CPE cai,2nd cat
removed, turbosmart bov.

I mean you can always just turn up the boost and tune it to get the extra power and save 700 bucks.

[MS3077]

I think 40-50HP dyno proven out of this little cookie might just do the trick
for me, I just have to wait to see if it will work with my CPE cai,2nd cat
removed, turbosmart bov.

I mean you can always just turn up the boost and tune it to get the extra power and save 700 bucks.

Sure but it's probably not going to last in the long run.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I've asked this question before and either no one knew or no one else cares. Now that Christian is following this, maybe he can answer it for me. Do you have sufficient control over the ecu to tweak things like the throttle opening being reduced in low gear with the wheels turned? This is a major complaint for me. I understand why they did it (or at least I think I do) but they went way overboard on the amount of reduction they applied.

[desperado-c]

This is why cobb offers a 30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. If you don't think the smoothed out power delivery is worth it for $700 when you try it, box it up, and send it back. It should only cost you a few bucks in shipping it back since you can get it shipped free to you from almost any vendor. If you guys want uber hp/tq gains, I can tell you right now to go spend 80 bucks on a MBC and MAP clamp and go awe at your dyno.

It just occurred to me how ironic it is that a Japanese lead engineer created what he called his "wild child" ("jumpy", to quote Christian from somewhere) and now an American tuner is seemingly limited to making it less wild and more of a solid performer. Bit of a cultural and engineering role reversal.

[Demi]

I really like that it has rev limiter control and other nifty feature (many im sure im not aware of), but as has been discussed in other threads, the damn thing has been out a few days and people are flying off the handle about what it can and cant do. First all we have is base maps. Those are going to be extremely conservative because we all know that people will apply them with different mods and so does cobb. Also while cobb didnt rush the release, they were under the gun to release it this month. Im sure more work is in the pipe for what can be done with just base maps. We will have no idea of what we are dealing with until we see a MS3 with various mods taken to an actual tuner who doesnt intend for his tune to run on similarly outfitted MS3s.

[dread]

I've asked this question before and either no one knew or no one else cares. Now that Christian is following this, maybe he can answer it for me. Do you have sufficient control over the ecu to tweak things like the throttle opening being reduced in low gear with the wheels turned? This is a major complaint for me. I understand why they did it (or at least I think I do) but they went way overboard on the amount of reduction they applied.

yes they do and they have tweeked the boost limits due to steering angle

[sleeper3]

why isn't there 1 solitary dyno up in here yet? lame.

[desperado-c]

why isn't there 1 solitary dyno up in here yet? lame.

It might be awhile for owner dynos to show up since everyone has been told we need to run through a few cycles to allow the ECU to adapt S/LTFTs. But there are two from a beta tester tuned by a Cobb contractor and run at sea level:

Stock vs. Stage 1
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee51/PDXImportRacer/stockdynograph.jpg

Stock vs. Stage 2
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee51/PDXImportRacer/stage2_vs_stock.jpg

[sleeper3]

I've seen those. I want to see everyone else's

[DAC17]

The Cobb AP is not meant to get huge improvements in 1/4 mile times; if you're getting it for that, not such a good idea.

I owned two Subarus before the MSP3; a 2004 WRX and a 2005 STi. Had Cobb stage 1 93 octane tune in both, and the "qualitative" benefits mentioned earlier were really what I noticed. A little more power on the dyno, but a greatly smoothed out boost curve and an overall feel that was more like a strong V6 than a turbo four. I'm hoping for the same with the new AP!

[LENNY127]

I was hoping for a mid 11 sec Mazda with this AP

[Unoriginaluser]

why isn't there 1 solitary dyno up in here yet? lame.

its not our job to buy the unit and then dyno it and then subject it to your opinion. I have an ap and i'm satisfied with the improvement, i don't need a piece of paper to tell me that or to sell people on the idea.

[JoseloSpeed3]

Hey unoriginal, off topic but deamn those MS6 rims look sexy on you car, nice ride.

[nytmar3]

Hey unoriginal, off topic but deamn those MS6 rims look sexy on you car, nice ride.

I was just about to ask what rims those were. No need now....thanks.

[dread]

unoriginal what mods are you running with the ap. Mine comes in tomorrow and I am going to run it with the ms cai. All the problems people are having is making me nervous though. Were you able to download your stock map onto the ap without a problem.

[Unoriginaluser]

unoriginal what mods are you running with the ap. Mine comes in tomorrow and I am going to run it with the ms cai. All the problems people are having is making me nervous though. Were you able to download your stock map onto the ap without a problem.

CPE TBE with an extra resonator welded in, Cobb SRI intake. Running AP Stage 2 with no issues. It has stutured in 4th twice which i understand from the cobb forums can happen if your plugs aren't gaped to 0.3...

I didn't download my stock map, i was too impaitent after the long wait lol

thanks for the comments on the wheels, yes they are powdercoated ms6 rims

[desperado-c]

I've seen those. I want to see everyone else's

All in good time, all in good time.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I hope those qualitative improvements are significant. If you do the math, the map for use with an aftermarket intake ups the overall power by about the same gain you get from adding the intake.
What bugs me is that I can't even find 91 octane around here, so I have no choice but to use 93.
How about a 93 octane map? That should squeeze another couple of ponies out of the car.

[SharkDiver]

They are coming out with a 93 map soon along with a MS CAI map.I hope its out before my 30 day trial is up.I wont get my AP till tuesday or wednesday.

[Speedy3]

I'm running stage 2+ with 92 octane, MS CAI, MS CBE, cp-e DP w/cat, PG Manifold, custom turbo inlet, and Forge BPV with green spring. I let the ECU adjust a night and day before getting on it. AFR's look good, knock is 0.0 all the time and boost spikes are reduced A LOT! Power is smooth. Dyno is planned within a week.

[nytmar3]

I'm running stage 2+ with 92 octane, MS CAI, MS CBE, cp-e DP w/cat, PG Manifold, custom turbo inlet, and Forge BPV with green spring. I let the ECU adjust a night and day before getting on it. AFR's look good, knock is 0.0 all the time and boost spikes are reduced A LOT! Power is smooth. Dyno is planned within a week.

Very interested to hear how things go for you as you have a very similar setuip to what I will have when I get around to ordering my AP.

[Speedy3]

By the way, stock map download went flawlessly and took about 30-45 min. Not really sure how long it took, cause my buddy and i were talking cars all night.

[desperado-c]

They are coming out with a 93 map soon along with a MS CAI map.I hope its out before my 30 day trial is up.I wont get my AP till tuesday or wednesday.

Also, the ECU will probably adjust to a certain degree without having specific maps for 93. Less knock will allow other parameters to become more aggressive. Another reason to go easy on it for a couple of days.

[blackmica08]

if i buy the cobb ap does it comes with the maps already in it or do i have to download the maps from the website.

[aaronc7]

preloaded

[dread]

Its better to run 93 even if the map is for 91. More protection against knock so you should not be looking for lower quality gas.

[techniciana]

[QUOTE=Christian.;3859080]I agree, although, please understand that we made significant qualitative improvement in the calibrations and the only way for some to describe how the vehicle drives is by qualitative rhetoric (language), driving quality impressions, etc. Qualitative data has not not been set up for easy quantitative analysis so the only way to describe some things will be by describing butt dyno impressions or driving quality impressions. I and many others thought the car was very jumpy with the stock tune and we spent extensive time smoothing things out...I don't know how else to describe it.

Christian.[/t
the front wheel is where it's at.gotta be reading those egt's and a/f #'s(guitar)