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coolmazda5
04-29-2008, 10:34 PM
MIAMI — For used car dealer Ivan Hoyos, accepting a sport utility vehicle as a trade-in is no longer good business.

The only SUV he's offering at his Florida Auto Sales and Finance is his mother's red 2004 Mitsubishi Endeavor. With only 21,000 miles on it, he's advertising the six-cylinder vehicle for $13,991 — about $200 less than Kelley Blue Book's suggested retail value. Hoyos' mom purchased a Mazda5, a smaller crossover vehicle with plenty of interior room but better gas economy — up to 28 miles per gallon as opposed to about 20 for the Mitsubishi.

"Nobody is buying used SUVs," said Hoyos, 35, who stopped accepting them six months ago. "The truth is more and more dealers are staying away from used SUVs and large trucks. ... It doesn't pay. You can't have a unit sitting on the lot forever."

With gasoline prices nearing $3.60 a gallon nationally and as the economy teeters on recession, independent used car dealers like Hoyos and massive chains like AutoNation are having trouble selling used SUVs, as buyers prefer smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles like hybrids and crossovers.

Crossovers such as the Ford Edge, Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4 have more interior room and more rugged styling than the average car, but with a lighter frame and generally better gas economy than an SUV.

Down 14 percent
Used SUV sales in March were down 14 percent nationally compared to last year, according to data compiled by CNW Marketing Research. That follows drops in used SUV sales of more than 8 percent for the first two months of the year, compared with the same months in 2007.

That trend has sent used SUV prices plummeting, giving owners a shock when they try to trade theirs in and find out how little they can get.

"Owners find out they don't have the trade equity they thought they had and are forced to keep their vehicles or come up with a large sum of cash to make up the difference," said Chris Denove, a vice president of the information firm J.D. Power and Associates.

The mileage issue
David Tivadar has spent three months trying to get fair trade-in value for his 2005 Lexus SUV, which gets about 17 miles per gallon. He would like to trade it in for a minivan that gets better mileage and can accommodate his baby daughter.

He bought the Lexus new for about $33,000 and said the monthly payments of $465 "would be more manageable if gas prices weren't so high."

Tivadar would rather trade in his SUV than deal with the hassle of selling it himself, and he plans to visit other dealers to see if he can get better trade-in value.

"At first gas mileage was a secondary issue — we wanted something bigger and safer for the baby," said Tivadar, an operations manager in Murrieta, Calif.

"But the gas issue becomes more and more important as the price goes up. It's already $3.79 here."

For a decade, many Americans bought big SUVs like the Ford Expedition, the Chevrolet Tahoe and the Toyota Land Cruiser as they benefited from a booming housing market, low fuel costs and a steady economy. The SUV became a status symbol.

"What is unusual is that a segment that had grown very quickly in the '90s and the early 2000s has really shrunk dramatically," said Mike Maroone, AutoNation's chief operating officer. "The difficulty is in valuing them, because the market has clearly softened on those vehicles."

AutoNation re-examines the value of its used cars, including SUVs, in 15-day periods, Maroone said. After sitting unsold for 60 days, the cars are eventually sold at wholesale auctions to other dealers.

"It's a very good way in that it provides you liquidity when you've been unable to retail something, or the vehicle doesn't meet your standards to retail it," Maroone said.

"It moves at auction. It's always just a matter of how much."

Shipping them overseas
Another option to reduce inventory is to sell the SUVs overseas. At AutoNation's Maroone Nissan of Pembroke Pines, southwest of Fort Lauderdale, used car sales manager Julio Cardoso noted that he has three SUVs headed to Russia this month.

Sales manager Al Johnson said the dealership had been exporting about one car a month — this year the average is roughly 10. AutoNation said nationally its overseas shipments were up slightly but not in double digits. It did not disclose specific figures.

Maroone said he has been active in exporting cars to Central and South America since the 1970s, while the weak dollar has seen more luxury used vehicles being shipped to Europe.

"We're willing to ship anywhere as long as the car is paid for before it leaves the lot," Maroone said.

A March 18 report by Wachovia Capital Markets analyst Richard Kwas noted that about 75 percent of about 40 auto dealers and managers surveyed said they are selling more cars and CUVs than expected.

"We suspect traditional SUVs are being traded for new CUVs, which likely will drive further declines in wholesale prices for the SUV segment," the report said.

As more SUVs are being traded in, dealers have to work hard to manage inventory to prevent a glut.

Source, Houston Chronicle:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/5732086.html

BOOSTR
04-29-2008, 10:46 PM
Not surprising. Getting 8-16 mpg's in the city will wake your ass up with gas prices these days. Especially after a fill up.

nealric
04-29-2008, 11:28 PM
Hopefully, one day, the road will be safe for small cars again :D

But as for crossovers (yupnope)

Wagons FTW!

mikeyb
04-30-2008, 10:01 AM
the day of the SUV and Truck is over......

zoomzone
04-30-2008, 10:30 AM
I've been telling people that this would happen for years.

BlackCherry06
04-30-2008, 10:38 AM
I've been telling people that this would happen for years.

Well, you know people aren't going to give up their YUAV (Yuppie Urban Assault Vehicle) until they absolutely have to. After all, driving a smaller car is unsafe and it's no way to keep up with the Jones's.

tunersteve
04-30-2008, 10:46 AM
I think the day of the large SUV is definitely about over. There will always be a higher desire for trucks than there will be for SUVs, such as campers, work trucks, etc. It's up to the manufacturers to stop screwing around and make them as efficient as possible. They still haven't got that done yet.

mikeyb
04-30-2008, 10:50 AM
GM just cut back SUV and Pickup production.

coolmazda5
04-30-2008, 11:07 AM
There will always be a higher desire for trucks than there will be for SUVs, such as campers, work trucks, etc.

I agree, but I would say there is a need rather than a higher desire. Of course pick-up trucks, trucks, trailer trucks, etc. are essential but when you are at a traffic light next to a soccer mom with one kid on a V8 Chevy Suburban that is ridiculous IMO. Same goes for Hummer, hats-off for their military use, they do their job, but for civilian use, unacceptable.

astraelraen
04-30-2008, 11:26 AM
Not surprising. Getting 8-16 mpg's in the city will wake your ass up with gas prices these days. Especially after a fill up.

My CX7 gets 15mpg in 100% city driving :p

Its funny how they hype crossovers, when 90% of the crossovers can't do much better than 18ish in the city.

Although, thats still better than the 12-15mpg most people would get in their giant trucks/SUV's.

nealric
04-30-2008, 11:53 AM
Its funny how they hype crossovers, when 90% of the crossovers can't do much better than 18ish in the city

The crossover thing baffles me.

Why O why does every wagon need a lift kit?

mal_tiempo
04-30-2008, 12:17 PM
Since they're not offering a Mazda6 wagon with the redesign, maybe the CX-7 could turn into a dedicated wagon type model a la the Outback? I wish.

I'm actually glad this is happening, maybe mom will trade in for something cheaper on gas. Too bad my stepdad just bought a supercharger Harley Davidson F-150...

Foolish
04-30-2008, 12:18 PM
Well, you know people aren't going to give up their YUAV (Yuppie Urban Assault Vehicle) until they absolutely have to. After all, driving a smaller car is unsafe and it's no way to keep up with the Jones's.

The main thing I took away from this article is that people who want to give up their YUAVs can't:

That trend has sent used SUV prices plummeting, giving owners a shock when they try to trade theirs in and find out how little they can get.

"Owners find out they don't have the trade equity they thought they had and are forced to keep their vehicles or come up with a large sum of cash to make up the difference," said Chris Denove, a vice president of the information firm J.D. Power and Associates.
Sadly, it seems they never learn: (bang)


"We suspect traditional SUVs are being traded for new CUVs, which likely will drive further declines in wholesale prices for the SUV segment," the report said.



Crossovers such as the Ford Edge, Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4 have more interior room and more rugged styling than the average car, but with a lighter frame and generally better gas economy than an SUV.

Yeah, better by about 2mpg. Way to go! At least astraelraen knows he's not really saving much gas with his "crossover." I doubt many of the people trading their SUVs in on CUVs realize that!

My CX7 gets 15mpg in 100% city driving :p

Its funny how they hype crossovers, when 90% of the crossovers can't do much better than 18ish in the city.

Although, thats still better than the 12-15mpg most people would get in their giant trucks/SUV's.(mswerd)

I get 20mpg or so, all city/around town with my MPV, which admittedly isn't much better than you're getting in your CX-7, but my MPV seats 7 people and hauls about 6 times as much stuff as your wagon-on-stilts. I'm sure the CX-7 is more fun to drive, but if that is the goal, why not get a Speed3? (uhm)

I guess I just don't get SUV/CUV/YUAVs. People are making the second most expensive purchase of their lives based on style over substance! That's so backward! Would you buy a house with 2 less bedrooms than you need and no roof just because the yard and the front wall of the house looked nice? (bang)

aMaff
04-30-2008, 12:41 PM
I guess I just don't get SUV/CUV/YUAVs. People are making the second most expensive purchase of their lives based on style over substance! That's so backward! Would you buy a house with 2 less bedrooms than you need and no roof just because the yard and the front wall of the house looked nice? (bang)

no, but I know plenty of people who would.

Foolish
04-30-2008, 12:44 PM
no, but I know plenty of people who would.

You need smarter friends. ;)

aMaff
04-30-2008, 12:45 PM
You need smarter friends. ;)

I wouldn't call them friends. Usually I call them morons.

mikeyb
04-30-2008, 01:30 PM
I wouldn't call them friends. Usually I call them morons.

The world is full of morons.

dmitrik4
04-30-2008, 01:38 PM
maybe that dealer should consider cutting more than a measly $200 off the price.

personally, im excited b/c this means a tow rig is going to be a lot cheaper to purchase.


I get 20mpg or so, all city/around town with my MPV, which admittedly isn't much better than you're getting in your CX-7, but my MPV seats 7 people and hauls about 6 times as much stuff as your wagon-on-stilts. I'm sure the CX-7 is more fun to drive, but if that is the goal, why not get a Speed3? (uhm)

I guess I just don't get SUV/CUV/YUAVs. People are making the second most expensive purchase of their lives based on style over substance! That's so backward! Would you buy a house with 2 less bedrooms than you need and no roof just because the yard and the front wall of the house looked nice? (bang)

-maybe there were zero Mazda6 wagons available at dealers w/in 50 miles.
-maybe the Speed3 wasn't out yet, and makes a poor substitute.
-maybe b/c neither of those cars comes w/ AWD, and the Speed3 gets the same crappy mileage anyway.

i don't have a problem with style being a consideration in purchasing a car...why wouldn't it be? if i had a choice of two houses, and each fit my "needs" but one was a whole lot better-looking, guess which one i'm going for?

i get your point, but your implication that people who buy cars like the CX-7 are necessarily misguided fools is offbase and a little insulting. fuel cost isn't always the singe driving factor in the decision; otherwise, i'd be puttering around in a diesel golf, laughing at all the fools driving gas-guzzling wagons.

i got mine b/c it looks great, does everything i need, and was the right price. i drive little enough, and make enough money, that i couldn't care less about $3.60 premium, and you won't hear me complain. people who live beyond their means are idiots, no matter what their choice of vehicles.

TinmanMS6
04-30-2008, 03:08 PM
I guess I just don't get SUV/CUV/YUAVs. People are making the second most expensive purchase of their lives based on style over substance! That's so backward! Would you buy a house with 2 less bedrooms than you need and no roof just because the yard and the front wall of the house looked nice? (bang)

Actually, it's more like getting 2 more bedrooms than you need. You just described the purchase of a Miata.

dmitrik4
04-30-2008, 03:46 PM
You just described the purchase of a Miata.


(rofl)

then the answer is "hell yes! best money i ever spent!"

coolmazda5
04-30-2008, 03:59 PM
Hoyos' mom purchased a Mazda5, a smaller crossover vehicle with plenty of interior room but better gas economy — up to 28 miles per gallon as opposed to about 20 for the Mitsubishi.

Buy a Mazda5 and just fogget-about-it. That is why the news bumped into my auto-search :D. AWD, V8, turbo... (blah) are nice to have but fuel economy, space and manual tranny, essential

TinmanMS6
04-30-2008, 04:11 PM
(rofl)

then the answer is "hell yes! best money i ever spent!"

Damn right! I just picked up a '92 with 103k miles for less than I paid for the laptop I'm typing this on.

dmitrik4
04-30-2008, 04:39 PM
103k miles

congrats! that's practically brand-new; just about broken in.

<-- coming up on 237k

TinmanMS6
04-30-2008, 04:41 PM
congrats! that's practically brand-new; just about broken in.

<-- coming up on 237k

Yeah, I pretty much stole it for what I paid. New cat and it's good to go.

1sty
05-01-2008, 01:37 PM
I still think alot of this is just shock and stupidity from people that could not afford the vehical they bought in the first place.

Breaking it down lets say you are in my shoes.
No way around it, I have to have a truck.
- I have a great many tasks each year to do on my house and cannot afford to pay someone to do it. So I do all of the material pick up and displosals as well to save the money. Last year alone I saved about $400 in delivery charges as I am well outside of everyone's free delivery area. Dominos wont even come to my house.
- In two years there have been about 6 days that without my truck I could not have made it home do to road flooding and weather problems.
- I have no city provided trash pick up and my wife is incapable of pouring liquid in the sink and will instead chuck it in the trash. This led to a VERY large fungus growing in my 6.

My truck gets about 15-18mpg with my driving. averages 17.
Lets say I drive 15,000 miles per year. Its actualy more like 12K
Lets also say that I could replace my truck with a large wagon that gets 25mpg. The wagon woul dbe useless for a 4x8 peice of anything, 2x4x14s and the cord of wood per year I go through.
Per year I would save $1000 at $3.50/gallon
Considering the wear and tear on a vehical not ment for it, the trash smell, and lost money and time waiting for deliviers....I'll keep the truck.

Now looking at a secondary vehical like my bike that gets 60 mpg:
If i road that bike for 5000 miles of the 15000 miles I would put on my truck without ever using the bike for any other reason:
I save about $750/year. That is about equal to the cost to insure, register and mantain my bike. Not to mention the cost for riding gear and the bike payment itself.


That said, like all of you, I have a well developed hatred for people with one kid that live in the suburbs that for some reason need a saburban and these insanely large luxury SUVs.
Pickup trucks, and mini-ute/crossovers make alot of sense to me.