Need help after timing belt replacement

[Chawk]

I have the 2000 1.6 dohl motor, i changed the timing belt and made sure to make everything from the crankshaft and the camshafts, put it all back together several times and still get no start. I have tried to take it apart and put it back together about 4 or 5 times now. I cannot figure out why this will not start. I checked the cyllinders and the 1st and 4th are all the way to the top, the cams and crankshaft are aligned but still no start.

Does anybody have any suggestions? and is this a non interference or interference motor? Thank you.

[malibu4bbl]

your timing might be off by 180degrees

[Chawk]

what does that mean? do you mean that i have the timing totally reversed? I checked the cyllinders, and the first and 4th are at the top. this car has not distributor which drives me crazy.

[Chawk]

does anybody know if this is an interference motor or non interference motor?

[Chawk]

well i figured out that the white mark on the timing guide is supposed to indicate cyllinder one top, but my cyllinder appears to be off by 180 degrees. I think what I will have to do is take timing belt off, then find top dead center, then align the camshaft sprockets with the crankshaft sprockets. I think this may work, but I really dont know.

[malibu4bbl]

thats what i said about the 180 degrees.

the #1 goes to TDC on the compression stroke and the exhuast stroke. If you have it at the exhuast stroke when it hsould be compression its 180 off. It will hurt anything interferance or not but it will not start becuase your getting spark with the exhaust valve open and what not.

sorry i didnt respond back earlier or a better post but its been a rough day at work.

[malibu4bbl]

from the quick search i did its a non interferance motor

[Chawk]

thank you very much for getting back to me. I had no idea what you were talking about at first, but after realizing how to find tdc through my manual i realized that what you said was right, i have everything off by 180 degrees. I will adjust everything this weekend and post back the results. *** I want to warn people about changing timing belts**** make sure you know what you are doing, and dont be a dumb ass like myself, because i had not idea what tdc was, and should not have messed with anything. But i will get her running again because i always do. I then plan to draw up a how to.

[Chawk]

still no god damn start! i went out tonight made sure my crank shaft sprocket was sitting at 12 oclock set my cams, the put on the belt, made sure there was no slack on the the tensioner side, put everything back together, after rotating the engine to make sure the marks were aligned and still no god damn start. I am starting to think that something went back on me during the replacement job.

Does anybody have any ideas?

[Chawk]

guy's i need some help. I was trying to start the car last night and it would turn over but would not start. I marked everything up according to the haynes manual and when trying to start the car after a while some smoke was coming from the maf area. any ideas?

[sam1]

Are you getting spark? All sensors plugged back in?

[sandypro]

Make sure you tension the side without the tensioner not the other way around, because if you don't you'll throw everything off again, and check your cam sensor as well.

[Chawk]

okay i will try to do that, it seems like the belt is just a tight fit and that i could not move the teeth to allow more tension on the tensioner side, but i really did not try to hard i will be sure to do that.

I have checked the cam position sensor, there are no metal shavings on it or anything and it is plugged in. I was thinking that maybe the problem was there. It just has to be the timing belt not aligned right.

I hope you are right about the tension because I am pretty sure I aligned the cams and crank sensor right, and they all stay aligned when rotating the crankshaft.

[Chawk]

Hey guys what is that big rubber looking cyllinder thing that sticks straight up and is mounted on top of the right motor mount?

[sandypro]

i'm guessing that that rubber thing is against excessive vibrations, i'm not sure. i forgot to put it back in on mine and haven't replaced it since. and just to make sure, when you place the belt on the teeth, the slack should be on the tensioner side (left side when looking straight at it), i know this all sounds really repetative but just making sure your not leaving anything out.

[Chawk]

i think this may be where i am having my problem. I probably wont be able to work on it again until next weekend or so, but I was not able to tension anyside more than the other, but now that I think about it, i put some pressure on the tensioner against the bolt and tightened it down. I think I am putting to much pressure on the tensioner side. I will try to loosen this and adjust the teeth.

[Chawk]

the belt just barely fits on there even with the tensioner bolt fully loosened. but once again i think that i sm putting to much pressure on the tensioner pulley

[Chawk]

I just got done adjusting the timing belt so there was absolutely no slack on the side opposite of the tensioner. The car still would not start.
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i took the # 1 plug out and tested for spark there was no spark when trying to start.
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i then put the # 1 back and took out the number 4 plug, this had spark.
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i then figured that my timing was 180 degrees off still.
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So I adjusted everything and put the timing back 180 degrees and put everything back together and still no start.
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when trying to start I got no spark at the # 1 cyllinder. when taking the plug out there is a poof noise that comes from the # 1 cyllinder when the plug is removed. I hoping that this is just compressed air from the pistons, but at this point I do not know.
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the thing that confuses me, is that I took the old timing belt on and put the new one on, I never messed with the cams, or the crankshaft and it would not start. I dont understand why this would be. it would seem that the car would at least start, and if off by a tooth or so it would not run smooth.
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I am totally stumped.

[malibu4bbl]

check Cylinder #2 see if your getting spark and then check #3

How do the plugs look.

back in the day you used to beable to put your finger over the spark plug whole and then turn it or crnak it untill your finger is pushed off. that was the compression stroke and ............


umm hmm let me think. what could be the issue.

nwo this is a 2.0 motor right?

it sounds like a spark or ignition issue.

Double check makr sure everything is connected, then recheck. look for loose wires or something.

Im going to try to keep on top of the thread but i get cuaght up in things. PM my other name on Here "ghettoracingkid" as this one i jsut use oncei na blue moon becuase i dont have much time but waht not long story...

[Chawk]

ok thank you for you help i will post back, I have a 1.6 dohc motor.

[ghettoracingkid]

hmm 1.6 im more familiar with teh 2.0 but let me know how it goes.

[ghettoracingkid]

what is the excat car your working on?

this might help

you might only be slightly off.

http://z.about.com/d/autorepair/1/0/0/B/78568430.gif

[Chawk]

thanks for the post, but the haynes manual shows something completely different. the 1.6 has a few marks. i am going to post pictures tomorrow or sunday hopefully showing step by step procedures that I did and that the haynes manual shows, and maybe somebody can point out something obvious that i am doing wrong.

[sandypro]

If you haven't figured it out by next weekend i can take my vlave cover off and take some pictures with the markings and stuff, maybe that'll help.

[Chawk]

Thanks again for everybody's help I still cannot get the car to start. I have added some photos of the Haynes Manual and my car photos.

I have been able to find TDC, however the directions call for the Crankshaft sproket mark to face upwards. If this is the case then the car would not be at perfect TDC according to the guide.

So with a friend cranking on the car, I can feel for compression at the number one cyllinder and I know when that one fires because it makes a loud poof noise, and pushes my hand off. After doing this I moved the crankshaft back just a slight bit so that it would be on the top, and the camshafts were already on there mark.

I made sure that when putting the belt on I had no slack on the side opposite the tensioner, however the belt is a tight fit anyway, and there really is not much slack on either side.

now with the belt on there I turned the crankshaft like the haynes manual tells me to do, 1 and 5/6 turns clockwise until the crankshaft sproket mark is facing the tension set mark on the engine block.

I then tightened the belt down to the approximate torque specifications.

I then turned the crankshaft 2 and 1/6 turns so that the crankshaft sprocket mark was facing the top again.

When doing this all my marks for the camshafts and the crankshafts were perfect. ( I took photos which are listed below)

I then put everything back together tried to start the car and there was nothing. it attempts to turn over but will not start.

What I question is this, When finding TDC the sprocket mark is not facing up it would be facing another direction this does not make sense?

Another thing is that the Harmonic Balancer has a white painted mark on it which you are supposed to match up to the T mark on the timing guide, but once again if this were tdc, then the book tells you to make sure the crankshaft sprocket is facing up. (there is no disctibutor on this car, so I cannot use the rotor to determine where everything lines up)

*** I am totally stumped on this. If I had the money i would have towed it to a mechanic by now, but I am poor with 2 kids. ***

[ghettoracingkid]

ok I say that you put the crank at what dot of TDC and do it up that way. what could it hurt. everything looked ok at this point according to the pics.

other then that i think you might have other issues.

is there aq distributed? if there is losssen it and turn it as a freind is cranking it and you might get it to fire up. that is adjusting the timing.

[Packerfan]

Make sure you put pulley on crank to line up TDC on mark on pulley not key way (little metal piece stuck on crank shaft) THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME POSITION!!!

[Packerfan]

Also are you sure thats a 1.6L? If so why the instruction for 1.5L?

[Chawk]

yeah sorry about the instructions picture, the picture is 1.5 , but i meant to post a 1.6 picture which shows the same setup that my photos show. I wish there was a way to reset everything, it seems like my problem could be a camshaft sesor malfunction or possibly a crankshaft sensor malfunction.

[Chawk]

packerfan in regards to the tdc you say that the metal clip is not the same, but the dowel on the crankshaft pulley sits in the same direction as well. although there are little numbers and or letter on it, which I am not sure what they mean.

The haynes manual show's that you are supposed to align tdc by matching up the painted tooth, on the harmonic balancer. which sits at about 4 oclock on the harmonic blancer when the dowel on the crankshaft pulley is facing up. i may have to take a picture of this as well.

[Chawk]

oh and looking at the picture again it actually says 1.6 but you have to zoom in on it, looks like 1.5 from a distance.

[sandypro]

When I replaced my timing belt I used different markings on the cam pulleys. Compared to the way I set mine up you're completely off. Look at the encircled markings in the picture below.

[Chawk]

So where exactly are those marks supposed to be placed? would you say that those marks should sit on the top, or in the directions of the E and the I ? Thank you for your help, I am totally stumped on this, but hopefully my trial and error's will be a good reference for people in the future. The haynes manual makes no sense at all.

[sandypro]

Sorry about that, i edited the picture. The marks were lined up horizontally in the middle. But when i looked closely i noticed 2 notches on each cam gear, so i'll check mine out and take some pictures as a reference.

[Chawk]

thank you so much for your help. I have a little hope left after all.

[sandypro]

Ok i managed to remove my valve cover and take a picture of my set up. I circled the markings in your picture that need to line up, double check them though. Good luck

[Chawk]

thank you very much, i cannot tell you how appreciative i am for this. I realized tonight that the haynes manual is completely wrong when it comes to our engines, If I line my marks up like you have them, is it still possible to be 180 degrees off?

[Chawk]

I went ahead and lined them up like you have them, and for some reason i think that I am 180 degrees off. the car is showing signs of life now for the first time since i started this fiasco. It is trying to start now that my cams are lined up properly, but it wont start. I know i am getting close, when cranking on the car it will crank..crank...crank..crank..start...studder...sto p (( then the cycle will start over again.

I cannot work on it any longer tonight but will post more results as I get them.

Thank you

[ghettoracingkid]

if im not mistaken that has a regular distributor right?

loosen the hold down
turn the distributor while its cranking.

I feel like your timing is just a littel bit off.

Maybe the igntion module went....... too bad i couldnt come ther and help you.

I miss carberatours. (sp?)

[sandypro]

The engine has a dual coil system, no distributor.

[ghettoracingkid]

thanks sandy.

[Chawk]

still no update yet, maybe tomorrow or this weekend.

[ghettoracingkid]

ok cool

[Chawk]

I want to thank everybody on this thread especially sandy pro. I got it resolved. I aligned the cams to match that of sandypro, i then made sure no slack on the non tensioner side. I then put everything back together and no start, the spark was intermitent. I was about to give up for the night when i thought to look at the crank shaft sensor. I took the bolt off that holds the sensor on and moved the magnet tip just a bit closer to the harmonic balancer/crank alignment thingy. (about 1/2 a cm away from the tooth) i then bolted it back down and it started right up. I am so happy right now I cannot even get over it. I must have knocked this thing out of alignment just a slight bit when trying to remove the crankshaft sprocket bolt. The car runs great. The cams were deffinately off before sandy posted the proper photos. the car would not have started no matter what, but good thing since damage would have occured since the cams were not aligned. thank you all once again for your help. :)

[sandypro]

No problem Chawk, any time. Good to hear that everything worked out.

[ghettoracingkid]

ahh nice.....

good for you

[superspec]

ok, since we have all the timing belt experts in here i figure ill ask my question after looking at so many threads about this.

my wifes motor took a dump last week and i have a new one on the way... hopefully today or tom! while im replacing the motor i figured i would change the belt while its out of the car. what is stopping me from pulling the old one off and replacing it with a new one.... everything still lined up like it was?

let me be more specific, without moving the cams or the crank, pull the old belt off and put the new one on in the same exact position.

[jesus_man]

Superspec - there shouldn't be any issue with that. That's what I did when I replaced mine for preventative maintenance. I was one tooth off at first, but that was fixed and the car ran like normal. It seem you may need a helper to hold one of the cams in place while you place the belt on. I remember struggling heavily with this doing it myself because I seem to remeber that both cams were not at rest to get it aligned properly, but my motor is a 2.0. 25k miles later, my timing belt fails, so I have to do it all over again.

J.D.

[superspec]

thanks, i finally got it up and running after some tq converter issues. when i pulled the timing covers off i made several marks on the cam gears and crank/ block so that i would def. have everything lined up. sure enough it came in handy because when i pulled the belt off of the cam gears the intake cam rolled back several degrees. after tracking down a cresent wrench and something to tie it down with i got everything lined back up and new belt on. within about 3 hours i had the motor back in with oil pump primed and cyl. lubed. the new motor lit right off and is running great... i wish i could have said that about the tranny though, 1600 later and the car is back on the road.

total amount spent? around 2400 and change, but its still cheaper than a new car note!