MSP Gear Oil

[Speed3.5]

Re: What gear oil you recomend
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed3.5
I know you guys are more concentrated on the track results but i've spotted Lucas Oil 75W90 Gear oil fully synthetic and is made for tranys w/ lsd as well. Do you guys have any experience or knowledge on this gear oil ??
is it competitive to RedLineOil, RP or alike ??

any suggestion is app. , I'll be daily driving some fun along the way.

lmk , thnx

I'm not familiar with any of the Lucas Oil Products. One thing to consider is you have to look at what type of LSD you are running and what the recommended oil and type is for the LSD/gearbox. The newer trannies are not recommending the heavy 70W90 weights any longer. I'm not sure what Mazda recommends but I don't think it is a 70W90.....

We use Torco Oil RTF in our trannies. It is similar to Redline Shockproof but we like the smoothness the Torco RTF gives to the shifting. The Torco is the same product used in the 3000+HP funny car trannies so I know it can take "abuse".....

Tom

BTW, I hope you don't mind but I may post this on the Doc B Racing forum. I don't mind answering questions but I would like to allow all the forum members to benefit from the exchange.....

[Speed3.5]

Lucas Oil is 75W90 fully synthetic and it states is made for tranies w/ LSD's.

Manual book from MAZDA states GL4 or GL5 and 75w90 for all exterior temp or 80w90 for exterior temp above 50F*

[Speed3.5]

one more thing can you explain the diff. between these terms:

"Gear Oil" vs " Transmission Fluid"


any major diff. ?? or just technical terms

[silver slotege]

Trans Fluid is usually designated for automatic transmissions. Gear Oil is used for manual transmissions.

[bulwnkl]

Well, no, transmission fluid may be for either automatic transmissions (Automatic Transmission Fluid) or manual transmissions (Manual Transmission Fluid). I agree that historically there hasn't been such a thing as MTF, at least not for very long, but a manual transmission fluid takes into account the coefficient of friction needed for optimal synchronizer action, whereas gear oil normally doesn't.

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

these is the oil I'm currently running and is very good, no complains, transmission feels real smooth

Redline Shockproof Synchromesh Lightweight

www.amazon.com
www.redlineoil.com

[Speed3.5]

Well, no, transmission fluid may be for either automatic transmissions (Automatic Transmission Fluid) or manual transmissions (Manual Transmission Fluid). I agree that historically there hasn't been such a thing as MTF, at least not for very long, but a manual transmission fluid takes into account the coefficient of friction needed for optimal synchronizer action, whereas gear oil normally doesn't.

I was thinking the same just wasn't sure.

I've seen Gear Oil and Transmission Oil in many brands and there weren't much explanation about the diff.

[MP3racer]

Lucas Oil is 75W90 fully synthetic and it states is made for tranies w/ LSD's.

Manual book from MAZDA states GL4 or GL5 and 75w90 for all exterior temp or 80w90 for exterior temp above 50F*

This was taken directly from the Torco oil website (www.torcooil.com (http://www.torcooil.com/))
As stated before we have used it in the Mazda tranny with good results!!


http://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gifRTF Racing Transmission Fluid is specifically engineered to reduce fluid drag for increased power efficiency without compromising component durability. It is made from a combination of specially selected 100% synthetic Group IV/V base oils proving superior shear resistance and extreme temperature stability. RTF is specially formulated to exceed the load-carrying and extreme pressure wear protection properties of higher viscosity GL-5 or GL-6 gear oils. RTF provides anti-score protection for high speed, high load and high torque shock-loading conditions, while allowing smooth operation of synchronizers.

http://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gifFeatures & Benefitshttp://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gifhttp://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gif- Group IV/V 100% Synthetic Formula
- Maximizes power throughput
- Reduces gear box temperatures
- Superior level of shock load, EP and wear protection
for their RTF Manual Transmission Fluid.

http://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gifTypical Useshttp://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gif
http://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gifRecommended for manual transmissions, transaxles and marine outdrive units where an SAE 75W90, 80W90 or 90 is specified. Also replaces SAE motor oil 10W30, 30, 10W40 or 40 where specified for transmissions. Commonly used in circle track (Winston Cup, Busch, modified, stock), road racing, formula, open wheel (Champ Cars, IRL Cars), off road, drag racing, sports compact street and domestic performance street applications. Highly recommended for achieving maximum power efficiency. Excellent for dry sump and fluid drive gear cases. Note: RTF is specifically recommended for Richmond Gear Racing Transmissions.

http://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gifMeets or Exceedshttp://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gifhttp://www.torcooil.com/tag-img/spacer.gifAPI GL-6

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

Any opinions on GM 80W90 synchromesh with friction modifier? Ive used that in my mp3 and in the tranny in my msp with no problems (i assume the lsd's have crapped out on me because of the 5500RPM drag launches lol).

[Maxx Mazda]

GM Synchromesh has gottne good reviews on here. I use Redline MT-90, and it's Amazing.

DO NOT use redline shockproof unless you change your trans oil every 3 weeks.

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

GM Synchromesh has gottne good reviews on here. I use Redline MT-90, and it's Amazing.

DO NOT use redline shockproof unless you change your trans oil every 3 weeks.


Just wondering, why you say that ? i´ve using my Redline Shockproof Synchromesh in my car for the past 2 years, with no problems of any kind..

[Maxx Mazda]

Just wondering, why you say that ? i´ve using my Redline Shockproof Synchromesh in my car for the past 2 years, with no problems of any kind..

Shockproof works like this:

There's tiny chunks of calcium in the fluid, hence it's "milky" appearance. Under load, they get in betwen the gears and as they're crushed they absorb the force by breaking into smaller chunks. Shockproof fluid is nothing new, it's been a drag racer's dream for decades. But what happens in a street car, is that once all those chunks are broken up (it doesn't take long either, maybe 3,000 Miles at MOST) you're basically left with horse piss for gear oil. It's awesome stuff, but it has it's place. It's place is in a drag car that gets launched hard, and launched hard often. In a street car, it's garbage. The MT-90 is a 75W90 fully synthetic gear oil, and is perfect for a street car. Switch to that.

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Shockproof works like this:

There's tiny chunks of calcium in the fluid, hence it's "milky" appearance. Under load, they get in betwen the gears and as they're crushed they absorb the force by breaking into smaller chunks. Shockproof fluid is nothing new, it's been a drag racer's dream for decades. But what happens in a street car, is that once all those chunks are broken up (it doesn't take long either, maybe 3,000 Miles at MOST) you're basically left with horse piss for gear oil. It's awesome stuff, but it has it's place. It's place is in a drag car that gets launched hard, and launched hard often. In a street car, it's garbage. The MT-90 is a 75W90 fully synthetic gear oil, and is perfect for a street car. Switch to that.

OK, sounds reasonable, you´ve been doing these modding thing for a longer time than me so, i´ll take your advice, even though i bought a gallon of the mentioned oil above to have it here in Spain as a spare when i change my current clutch for a new one !!! guess is to late to get the MT-90

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Shockproof works like this:

There's tiny chunks of calcium in the fluid, hence it's "milky" appearance. Under load, they get in betwen the gears and as they're crushed they absorb the force by breaking into smaller chunks. Shockproof fluid is nothing new, it's been a drag racer's dream for decades. But what happens in a street car, is that once all those chunks are broken up (it doesn't take long either, maybe 3,000 Miles at MOST) you're basically left with horse piss for gear oil. It's awesome stuff, but it has it's place. It's place is in a drag car that gets launched hard, and launched hard often. In a street car, it's garbage. The MT-90 is a 75W90 fully synthetic gear oil, and is perfect for a street car. Switch to that.


Thanx Maxx, Just Bought 4 Quarts of Redline MT-90 at amazon.com with next day Free shipping, how many quarts does our transmission takes ?

[Maxx Mazda]

We take like 2 liters if it's jsut a drain and refill, but on my brand new tranny that was dry inside it took almost 3.

[MP3racer]

If any of you guys are interstested to try the Torco Products (RTF for the tranny, Synthetic and Synthetic Blend engine Oils, etc.) I spoke with them today and they are willing to give all forum members a "racer's discount" on all their products! You can go to their website to learn more about their products and determine which one will work best for you. We have used many of them and can answer questions as well.

The website is www.torcooil.com (http://www.torcooil.com)

Their number is 800-649-5722

Ask to speak with Jared or Mike in sales. Make sure you mention you were referred by Tom from Doc B Racing and are a forum member to get the discount!

(thumb)

[Speed3.5]

If any of you guys are interstested to try the Torco Products (RTF for the tranny, Synthetic and Synthetic Blend engine Oils, etc.) I spoke with them today and they are willing to give all forum members a "racer's discount" on all their products! You can go to their website to learn more about their products and determine which one will work best for you. We have used many of them and can answer questions as well.

The website is www.torcooil.com (http://www.torcooil.com)

Their number is 800-649-5722

Ask to speak with Jared or Mike in sales. Make sure you mention you were referred by Tom from Doc B Racing and are a forum member to get the discount!

(thumb)

You the man Tom.
I'll call them next week, but i won't be using the oil untill summer hits when i'll upgrade my gears and clutch.

what do you guys use for Brake FLuid ?? Motul is well known but do you guys use something else ??

[Maxx Mazda]

I use ATE (pronounced Ay-tay) Super Blue race fluid my self.

[MP3racer]

You the man Tom.
I'll call them next week, but i won't be using the oil untill summer hits when i'll upgrade my gears and clutch.

what do you guys use for Brake FLuid ?? Motul is well known but do you guys use something else ??


Hey, no problem.....just a small way to show the appreciation for all the support the forum has given our team!!

The topic of brake fluids is enough for another whole thread....but here goes...

We have tried all the super high temp fluids and they do work great. They provide superior high boiling point capabilities when you need it. One of the tradeoffs with most of the very high boiling point brake fluids is that they are very hydrophilic or they love to absorb water (or moisture in the form of humidity). So soon after you fill your system with this type of brake fluid it starts the absorption process. After a short time the moisture degrades the brake fluids boiling point to significantly less than the initial advertised boiling point and many times less than the boiling point of regular DOT3.
So the concern here is that with these fluids you need to change your systems entire fluid frequently to maintain the high boiling point they are designed for. If you really don't need the high boiling point you may be waisting your money....
If you want to use one of these for a track day, etc., then it s a very good idea to flush your system with new fluid afterwards!

Tom

[Speed3.5]

i was thinking of getting another thread starting but i'd seem like i'm taking over your section so i just threw the Q here.

Thnx for clarifying those facts, i had that impression but wasn't sure in details.
Now can you give some name or boiling point or something i can work with to choose something right for MSP , I figured out that I best change the brake fluid once in 1-1.5 yr which isn't much but isn't that long either .

would motul DOT 5.1 be better then Motul racing fluid 600 ???
or ATE is something to consider ??

Give me something i can work as to choose the right one , thnx

[MP3racer]

i was thinking of getting another thread starting but i'd seem like i'm taking over your section so i just threw the Q here.

Thnx for clarifying those facts, i had that impression but wasn't sure in details.
Now can you give some name or boiling point or something i can work with to choose something right for MSP , I figured out that I best change the brake fluid once in 1-1.5 yr which isn't much but isn't that long either .

would motul DOT 5.1 be better then Motul racing fluid 600 ???
or ATE is something to consider ??

Give me something i can work as to choose the right one , thnx



It really depends on what type of driving you intend to do....

If you will only be using the MSP for normal street driving with some added "fun" street sessions to exercise the car you shouldn't be overtaxing the brake system too far and normal Dot3 or Dot 4 fluid should be fine.

If you will be tracking the car then it depends on your driving (or braking) style and whether you find that you are getting true pedal fade from boiling the fluid. If so then move up to the next higher boiling point fluid and see if that takes care of the problem.

Beleive it or not we only use a 570 degree boiling point fluid in the race car because we determined that the long pedal we were getting wasn't from fluid boil but rather due to "pad knock back" from rotor warp under heat.....again another whole thread worth of discussions.....

BTW, don't worry about starting various threads with questions....this is exactly what I intended this forum to be about!!

[bulwnkl]

GM Synchromesh has gottne good reviews on here. I use Redline MT-90, and it's Amazing.

I may be misunderstanding the context here, but just in case--
GM Synchromesh fluid is much thinner than MT90. Synchromesh is not a 75W90 fluid. It may still shift really well, but you're not getting anywhere near as much gear protection with it as with MT90, 75W90NS, or any other 75W90 gear oil.

If I misunderstood the context of the comment so that this post is not applicable, then sorry.

[Speed3.5]

i just did a small search and it seems that any DOT5+ are silicone "made" and create a film in the internal parts which is good and bad, don't know why yet but the good is it won't absorb water the bad is that some parts don't like the silicone which will give up in some way or other.

So DOT3 & DOT4 will absorb water at slower rate then RACING ones but it contains 3% water in it.

Damn this is lose lose thing, even the new version of fluids aren't any better then DOT3 or 4.

j

[Maxx Mazda]

I may be misunderstanding the context here, but just in case--
GM Synchromesh fluid is much thinner than MT90. Synchromesh is not a 75W90 fluid. It may still shift really well, but you're not getting anywhere near as much gear protection with it as with MT90, 75W90NS, or any other 75W90 gear oil.

If I misunderstood the context of the comment so that this post is not applicable, then sorry.

You are correct. The Snychromesh is a good fluid for a day to day average car. The MT90 has wicked performance under all temperatures, and I've used it for 2 years.

[bulwnkl]

i just did a small search and it seems that any DOT5+ are silicone...

This is where there is a MAJOR opportunity for confusion among consumers. DOT 5 fluid IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH DOT 3 OR DOT 4. DO NOT MIX THEM AT ANY TIME.

However, DOT 5.1 IS compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4, but NOT with DOT 5. 5.1 is a higher-performance spec like DOT 4 is compared to DOT 3.

So, avoid DOT 5 fluid no matter what unless you're putting it in a Harley-Davidson m/c which requires it. You'll seriously destroy things. Use DOT 5.1 with essentially every (other) hydraulic brake system on the planet.

Don't ask me why they labeled things this way. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in my life because it's soooooo easy to get confused.

[Speed3.5]

what do you guys think of this :

http://www.performancemotoroil.com/Dyno_test.html

Based on the test Torco motor oil was one of the "worst" oil's being tested agains AMSoil ??

Could that be true for tranny oil as well ??

Tom - any comment on this ??

[MP3racer]

what do you guys think of this :

http://www.performancemotoroil.com/Dyno_test.html

Based on the test Torco motor oil was one of the "worst" oil's being tested agains AMSoil ??

Could that be true for tranny oil as well ??

Tom - any comment on this ??


I hate to say it but the site that the article is posted on is an Amsoil dealer....of course Amsoil will be number one.....

The article is fairly vague in the description of the test criteria. They also mention that all the oils were not the same viscosity and some were synthetic while others petroleum based. Definitely apples to oranges.

My feeling....use what you think is good.....if you like the Amsoil, use it. We have used Torco products with very good results. Every situation is different, every application has different variables.....

Tom

BTW, on the brake fluids...A definite YES to the note about the DOT5 not being compatable with any of the other fluids!!! Some vintage guys have tried to use it before because it does not absorb moisture at all. Biggest problem is you have to completely remove all other fluid first and then it doesn't give a good pedal pressure no matter how much you bleed it...a pain in the "arse" in my opinion....

[Laser Blue]

SUB.... Good info here for future reference... Thanks all.

[Stormtrooper77]

I may be misunderstanding the context here, but just in case--
GM Synchromesh fluid is much thinner than MT90. Synchromesh is not a 75W90 fluid. It may still shift really well, but you're not getting anywhere near as much gear protection with it as with MT90, 75W90NS, or any other 75W90 gear oil.

If I misunderstood the context of the comment so that this post is not applicable, then sorry.

Just picked up 3 quarts of this a couple of weeks ago. GM Synchromesh IS 75W90. It is printed right on the label. $10 CDN a quart. Been using this for a few years now and no issues.

[crackerjakx]

Bought 3 qts of Torco RTF @ 18.50ea. Been using Redline MT-90 for the past 60k miles and I've noticed a difference since changing to Torco. Shifts are almost notchless, whether it's hot or cold, up the whole tach. Haven't had these results with any other fluid yet.

[Speed3.5]

Do you have MSP or MS3/MS6 ?

How many miles you have put in since changed the oil ?

Early in the morning is the tranny easy to shift or need to be wormed up a bit then it gets smooth ?

[fatti03msp]

sub

great info and questions guys.