warranty voided

[samsel450r]

i took my car to the dealer cause i had a check engine light and they ended up coiding my warrenty cause of the boost gauge and red vacuum hose...

[MS3077]

Wow!

[numbnuts22715]

so im guessing you didnt have the bov, boost cut defender, boost controller, test pipe, stretched coil springs, or anything like that installed at the time?

If you didnt, thats weak, I say you call up mazda na

[SwampAss]

April Fools!

[BlackCherry06]

I would have guessed they voided it because they saw your sig picture.

[trufanatic]

I would have guessed they voided it because they saw your sig picture.

LOL!(drive2)

[samsel450r]

the only thing i did was take out the test pipe.... and the boost controller that i unplugged like 2 months ago.... they didnt notice none of the other stuff i asked them what voided my warrenty and they told me intake that the dealer installed and red hoses and boost gauge and not have resonaters and muffler even though they recommended me to a exhaust shop

[VermZ06]

Bottom line: If you want to hold on to your warranty keep the car stock.

[numbnuts22715]

Bottom line: If you want to hold on to your warranty keep the car stock.

Or dont do stuff that isnt reversible...
Dont hack the exhaust or any wires or anything like that.

[ProtoType5]

Seems like a lot of you MS3 kids don't quiet understand "warrantees"....You mod it = You own it....

Hope your turbo isn't due for a recall...cause that's a hefty bill...

[samsel450r]

they said any accessory that mazda did not make will void my warranty... including gauges and hoses...lol wow this is retarded they said i could try going to another dealer cause apparently my warranty if only voided through that one dealer.... all this from a check engine light code of p2177 that from what ive herd is from the mazdaspeed intakes...

[jbiird317]

the car is already fast as hell, if you want to keep the warranty it would be wise to either use mazdaspeed products or just mod areas of the car that aren't likely to be covered in the warranty anyway, like the suspension...

[BlackCherry06]

After the horror stories presented here and on other forums (which, agreed, doesn't represent the entire Mazdaspeed 3/6 community), I elected to keep mine stock to simply avoid nasty arguments at the dealer in the event that something serious goes wrong. Drive up, hand them the keys, sign my rental agreement and off I go. A few hours to a few days later, pick up my car with it's warrantied repairs. I guess I like to keep things simple at the expense of a few extra HP.

[builthatch]

You mod it = You own it....

that is incorrect.

maybe you feel that way, but please do not dictate that as fact.

http://www.mzspd3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3772004&postcount=39

i need to see, verbatim, where it states that an aftermarket modification will automatically void the warranty...it says to the contrary in the owner's manual; it says MAY lead to an issue and MAY result in no coverage under warranty for the issue at hand, which walks hand in hand with current legislation.

[jbiird317]

i guess youve got a point... in the end, its a dealer decision. You can choose to fight that decision by calling mazda NA or going to another dealership, but most dealers are not mod friendly...and for good reason, mazda defends what they engineer, not what aftermarket companies develop

[builthatch]

i guess youve got a point... in the end, its a dealer decision. You can choose to fight that decision by calling mazda NA or going to another dealership, but most dealers are not mod friendly...and for good reason, mazda defends what they engineer, not what aftermarket companies develop

i think (opinion) the biggest reason behind the hassles are that the dealership doesn't make money on most warranty issues. They are reimbursed only what Mazda dictates for the job (in terms of hours), and as far as i know, rarely does this time allotment end up being fare. Plus. they can't sell the replacement part through their parts dep't, so it's a lose/lose for them. They would rather void the warranty, skirt the law, have you buy the part, and have you pay them their shop rate to replace the part.

At the factory level, like i mentioned previously, mazda doesn't make money giving away turbos and paying dealerships to replace them, so they might put unspoken pressure on the dealers to try to nip these issues in the bud by voiding warranties.

but, really, all of this doesn't matter if the law, the warranty, and your gumption are kept first and foremost.

[MS3077]

I didn't think something like boost gauge would void someones entire warranty
Guess I wont be getting a boost gauge because that would be a bitch to take off and put back on every time

Do you think they would void my warranty because I have Yokohama tires?

And how about things like a Short shifter, Rear motor mount, etc..?

I don't know.. Just seems like Mazda is being really really tough on the whole after-market thing with this car. I never heard of so much warranty voiding.

Guess it will be a long day removing parts if there is ever an issue with me car.

I'm not going to let this shit scare me into not enjoying / modding my car a little.

[SuperStretch18]

The code he mentioned means that the car is running lean at idle, so it is conceivable that a boost leak (read: faulty boost gauge install) could cause that cel. Probably why they wouldn't touch it...

[ProtoType5]

Don't link me to another thread of you ramblin the legalities of the warrantee...

Someone scan and post the warrantee...

It's basic common sense...You modify the engine/powertrain...with boost controllers, aftermarket BOV, intakes, exhausts, whatever.....It MAY...keyword "MAY" void your warrantee...

So don't be surprised when it DOES void your warrantee....

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

You found a shitty dealer, i took my msp into the dealer with an injen cai, turbo xs bpv, defi boost and air fuel gauge, and awr motor mounts. They said the only way it affected my warranty was is if one of those things caused the issue. Say if i took the car in for a vacuum leak and it turned out to be the line running to my bpv or the line running to my boost gauge, this = my problem. But if its one of the intake manifold lines running to the wga or say the vtcs silenoid, this = their problem. Btw, if you dont want the hassle for reasons such as check engine lights, go to sears and buy an obd2 scanner for about $60. Figure out what the code is and if it may be an obvious fix. Then if its not related to a modificaton take it to the dealer.

[Shaun]

that is incorrect.

maybe you feel that way, but please do not dictate that as fact.

http://www.mzspd3.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3772004&postcount=39

i need to see, verbatim, where it states that an aftermarket modification will automatically void the warranty...it says to the contrary in the owner's manual; it says MAY lead to an issue and MAY result in no coverage under warranty for the issue at hand, which walks hand in hand with current legislation.

+1

The dealership cannot legally VOID your entire warranty for having aftermarket modifications. However, they can deny a warranty claim if they can prove that the aftermarket part caused the problem.

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

Proto, i was told by a mazda NA regional rep that i cold modifiy anything in front of the throttle body or behind the 2nd cat with the exception of nitrous.

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

Btw this is bugging me.



ITS SPELT WARRANTY.

[Sacrilicious]

ITS SPELT WARRANTY.

lolz...it's "IT'S"...(rofl2)

[ProtoType5]

(rtfm)Warranty...That's right...Sorry...

My only point is don't be so surprised when they don't accept the warranty work after you install aftermarket parts...

I really don't see many people calling the service departments BEFORE adding these parts to verify the warranty information....Then you at least have some valid arguement when the VOID stamp happens...

And I agree...Intake and Cat-back Exhaust should be OK, but it's not my car or my company...I'm just saying Mazda has a valid point.

[ProtoType5]

lolz...it's "IT'S"...(rofl2)

(rofl2)

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

Punctuation i miss because i type to damned fast for my own good. Doh.

[Sacrilicious]

Punctuation i miss because i type to damned fast for my own good. Doh.

hehe...i'm just pullin your leg, man...;)

[redspeed3tk]

its like a electrical problem when ya have a remote start installed no one is gonna try to find the problem under warranty take out the boost gauge and try again warranty shouldn't cover what you installed that wasn't recommended by the manufacturer

[Spooler]

I sent an e-mail to my dealeship asking if they could install a boost gauge on my car (yes, more expensive, but insignificant if you blow your turbo and they don't want to cover it). I asked them to state the impact on my warranty if they cannot install it. I'll post their answer. Keep in mind I live in Canada.

[samsel450r]

ok so i got my car back and i called the other dealer were i got the car and i asked him if it was alright to modify my exhaust and he said yes only if u still have the 2 cats and i asked him about a boost gauge he said cause its just used for monitering boost right... and then i asked about boost tubes he said thats fine... then he got tired of answering my ?'s and said as long as u dont touch the motor it self it wont void my warranty... so it looks like im going there!!!!! oh and the dealer i took my car to didnt even know what the hks bov was he said it was changing boost... like a controller... and i said that it dont change BOOST.. he's like well did mazda make it i said no... he said well then its an aftermarket piece and you cant have it... i then left but it cost me 30 bucks for the rental and $50 just to look at it for a half hour and tell me they cant work on it with the warranty... so im going to the mod friendly dealer but the only problem its just a farther away then the first on i went to... but owell

[Betelgeuse]

How many times will we see the same story posted over and over? A dealer or Mazda can void your warranty for the littlest of things. Even a dumb thing like my Cobb intake can get me in trouble. Yes there are laws to protect the consumer but Mazda has deep pockets and a lot more leeway and it's a pain in the ass to deal with lawyers and the like.

For those who aren't lightly modded or who can't easily remove them, best thing to do is find a dealer that's ok with your mods (or future ones) and develop a good relationship with the service advisor. Just doing that would remove a big hurdle. Don't wait for something to happen only to be voided at some joe shmoe dealer.

Good luck to the OP and the second dealer.

[montrealms3]

I sent an e-mail to my dealeship asking if they could install a boost gauge on my car (yes, more expensive, but insignificant if you blow your turbo and they don't want to cover it). I asked them to state the impact on my warranty if they cannot install it. I'll post their answer. Keep in mind I live in Canada.

I'm in Montreal as well . . . which dealer are you talking about?

[Spooler]

I go to Spinelli Mazda in Lachine, they have always given me excellent service with no questions asked. But my car is stock (Protege Mazdaspeed, but this should apply to all models), so no reason not too. They say they can install my boost gauge no problem (approx $120) and they say that this should not affect the warranty in any way. I 'm sure the fact that I do my maintenance there makes a difference

[montrealms3]

I go to Spinelli Mazda in Lachine, they have always given me excellent service with no questions asked. But my car is stock (Protege Mazdaspeed, but this should apply to all models), so no reason not too. They say they can install my boost gauge no problem (approx $120) and they say that this should not affect the warranty in any way. I 'm sure the fact that I do my maintenance there makes a difference

Cool! Thanks for the info . . . I will check them out.

[Reyan]

ms cai is warrany for one year, hoses, belt's (wear and tear) is not covered under original factory warranty, you can look it up in your owners warranty guide, they can still check for a code and that will let you know what the problem is, becareful about going to another dealer, as long as they punch in the system that you have aftermarket parts in your car in the system it will show up in every mazda dealer service dept. in the US. What you should try is to find the sales person who sold you the car and ask him to help you out, he will be more than happy to try help you out because he wants your repeat business. The warranty only voids the areas you tamper with. Refer to your owners manual and warranty guide.

[dread]

My tech told I should get a front mount intercooler and that he was pissed when he found the ms3 used a top mount.

[clos561]

Bottom line: If you want to hold on to your warranty keep the car stock.

u can do minor mods, intake, 2nd cat delete,and top mount which are all reversable if needed.

[Sierra117]

ms cai is warrany for one year, hoses, belt's (wear and tear) is not covered under original factory warranty,

Things I miss from my BMW. I had three sets of brakes covered under warranty...and free maitenance for the 50k/4year.

[ehidle]

+1

The dealership cannot legally VOID your entire warranty for having aftermarket modifications. However, they can deny a warranty claim if they can prove that the aftermarket part caused the problem.

That is not true. They can void the entire warranty for any modification. It is stated quite plainly on page 11 of the warranty booklet.

They are very vague about "Alteration, modification, tampering, etc.." on Page 11 (2008) of your Warranty Information Booklet. They do not define what "Alterarion," "Modification," or "Tampering" are, nor do they use the typical "Including but not limited to" legalese, but rather a more informal "etc..." However, this does not change anything.

The argument will probably be made by someone that it is a warranty booklet and not a contract. But, if you look at the standard sales agreement that you signed when you purchased the car, it says:

"THE PRINTED NEW VEHICLE WARRANTY DELIVERED TO THE PURCHASER WITH SUCH A VEHICLE OR CHASSIS AND HEREBY MADE A PART OF HEREOF AS THOUGH FULLY SET FORTH HEREIN IS THE ONLY WARRANTY APPLICABLE TO SUCH A NEW VEHICLE OR CHASSIS AND IS EXPRESSLY IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE"

I am not a lawyer, but it seems that this language makes your Warranty Information booklet enforceable as part of the sales agreement, and you agreed by signing to follow maintenance according to the appropriate schedule outlined in the book.

In my non-legal opinion, it would seem reasonable that your act of modifying the car to increase performance would easily be considered a "modification" according to the definition on page 11, making your entire warranty void.

You might get a lawyer to argue your case (emphasis on "might"), and even if you could, it would cost you more than a new MS3, and you would probably lose. At least, if I were on the jury, I would see it that way.

Funny things about contracts. They are enforceable whether or not you read them before you signed them...

[Wykydtron]

My friend with his RSX is going to the dealership and asking the Service Manager if (insert mod here) will void his warranty. Then he'll ask for it in writing with his john hancock so they can't go back and screw him over.

[SuperStretch18]

The point Shaun was making is that the dealer can not void your warranty. They are an intermediary; the warranty agreement is between Mazda USA and the buyer. Mazda USA though can and does void warranties if need be...

[Sierra117]

That is not true. They can void the entire warranty for any modification. It is stated quite plainly on page 11 of the warranty booklet.

Its semantics. A dealership cannot void your warranty, they can deny warranty work. Mazda NA voids the warranty. Unless Mazda works differently than the manufacturer I work for.

[jbiird317]

Its semantics. A dealership cannot void your warranty, they can deny warranty work. Mazda NA voids the warranty. Unless Mazda works differently than the manufacturer I work for.

thats how it works

[ehidle]

Its semantics. A dealership cannot void your warranty, they can deny warranty work. Mazda NA voids the warranty. Unless Mazda works differently than the manufacturer I work for.

Mazda can also authorize a dealer, with or without the buyer's consent or notification, to void warranties on their behalf. I am sure this is probably part of the standard dealer agreement between Mazda USA and most, if not all, Mazda dealers.

Point is, the language is there that places the burden on the buyer to not modify the car, or seek written blessing from Mazda that something is not a modification.

I don't have my original sales agreement here, but I believe that when you buy a car, you are buying it from your dealer, not from Mazda USA, so the agreements in force are between you and the dealer. I am not confident this has any bearing on whether or not it is a dealer or MUSA that can void a warranty. There are probably all kinds of cross-authorizations that allow them to do pretty much whatever they want.

[Betelgeuse]

Mazda can also authorize a dealer, with or without the buyer's consent or notification, to void warranties on their behalf. I am sure this is probably part of the standard dealer agreement between Mazda USA and most, if not all, Mazda dealers.

Point is, the language is there that places the burden on the buyer to not modify the car, or seek written blessing from Mazda that something is not a modification.

I don't have my original sales agreement here, but I believe that when you buy a car, you are buying it from your dealer, not from Mazda USA, so the agreements in force are between you and the dealer. I am not confident this has any bearing on whether or not it is a dealer or MUSA that can void a warranty. There are probably all kinds of cross-authorizations that allow them to do pretty much whatever they want.


+1

Also, when a dealer calls up Mazda, they (Mazda) have NO idea what the car has on it. It's the dealer that 'rats' the owner out. So while the dealer themselves don't authorize the voiding of the warranty, they are indirectly responsible for it. If a dealer wants to be cool, they can perform warranty work on a car with crazy mods and Mazda wouldn't know squat.

[mk_slayr]

That is not true. They can void the entire warranty for any modification. It is stated quite plainly on page 11 of the warranty booklet.

They are very vague about "Alteration, modification, tampering, etc.." on Page 11 (2008) of your Warranty Information Booklet. They do not define what "Alterarion," "Modification," or "Tampering" are, nor do they use the typical "Including but not limited to" legalese, but rather a more informal "etc..." However, this does not change anything.

The argument will probably be made by someone that it is a warranty booklet and not a contract. But, if you look at the standard sales agreement that you signed when you purchased the car, it says:

"THE PRINTED NEW VEHICLE WARRANTY DELIVERED TO THE PURCHASER WITH SUCH A VEHICLE OR CHASSIS AND HEREBY MADE A PART OF HEREOF AS THOUGH FULLY SET FORTH HEREIN IS THE ONLY WARRANTY APPLICABLE TO SUCH A NEW VEHICLE OR CHASSIS AND IS EXPRESSLY IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE"

I am not a lawyer, but it seems that this language makes your Warranty Information booklet enforceable as part of the sales agreement, and you agreed by signing to follow maintenance according to the appropriate schedule outlined in the book.

In my non-legal opinion, it would seem reasonable that your act of modifying the car to increase performance would easily be considered a "modification" according to the definition on page 11, making your entire warranty void.

You might get a lawyer to argue your case (emphasis on "might"), and even if you could, it would cost you more than a new MS3, and you would probably lose. At least, if I were on the jury, I would see it that way.

Funny things about contracts. They are enforceable whether or not you read them before you signed them...

You seem pretty knowledgable about the subject. You supplied all the necessary sources and paperwork. And you used industry specific vocabulary. All of this plus the March Join date leads me to this conclusion...

Mazda Warranty SPY ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! (getout)

Hehehe jk jk jk.

Just talk with your service tech writer when you bring it in for service to figure out what they allow. I also have been told that anything before the TB and any exhaust is ok, even a full Turboback. The service manager I spoke with even went as far to say that the smoking turbo is an acknowledged problem that mazda is working on resolving, and that a full turboback won't void my warranty and won't be blamed for my car smoking. Oh and there just one of 6 dealerships within 30 miles...

-mk

[stockms3]

+1

Also, when a dealer calls up Mazda, they (Mazda) have NO idea what the car has on it. It's the dealer that 'rats' the owner out. So while the dealer themselves don't authorize the voiding of the warranty, they are indirectly responsible for it. If a dealer wants to be cool, they can perform warranty work on a car with crazy mods and Mazda wouldn't know squat.

Im not sure but I believe if its something major as a motor or trans, mazda will send someone to take a look at the car.

[ehidle]

You seem pretty knowledgable about the subject. You supplied all the necessary sources and paperwork. And you used industry specific vocabulary. All of this plus the March Join date leads me to this conclusion...

Mazda Warranty SPY ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! (getout)

-mk

Hahah! No... I thought about saying that, too, since it did sound that way. I'm actually a new Mazda3 owner (two weeks and two days ago!) and so far I like the car a lot, except that it's a total rattlebox and it drives me crazy.

I also just happen to read everything before signing anything, so I know what I am getting into :)

[ehidle]

Im not sure but I believe if its something major as a motor or trans, mazda will send someone to take a look at the car.

I would even go so far as to speculate that MazdaUSA probably has a bonus program to reward dealers for turning in warranty fraud cases, and there are probably metrics for warranty work dollars that dealers are held to when determining their year-end factory bonus (which is the only money dealers really make).

That is 100% pure speculation, though, and I have no information that supports it in any way. I just wouldn't be surprised if it were true, and I don't put anything past corporate America anymore.

I doubt they would even blink an eye at things like cosmetic changes (rims, tires, window tint, etc) but big mechanical changes, they will absolutely want to take a look at.

If you do anything at all to increase performance, that indicates a severe driver who likely abuses the car, so they definitely want to get rid of these warranties asap.

[smakdown61]

The best thing to do is keep the car with bolt-on mods that are EASY to remove in case you need a warranty repair. Right now, I have a motor mount and shifter bushing and I'm going to add a cobb sri and probably Cobb AP. All of that stuff can be easily returned to stock if needed. I'm most hesistant about a downpipe with all the smoking going on. I'd rather not have to pay to have my stock pipe put back on to get my turbo fixed.

[astraelraen]

I would even go so far as to speculate that MazdaUSA probably has a bonus program to reward dealers for turning in warranty fraud cases, and there are probably metrics for warranty work dollars that dealers are held to when determining their year-end factory bonus (which is the only money dealers really make).

That is 100% pure speculation, though, and I have no information that supports it in any way. I just wouldn't be surprised if it were true, and I don't put anything past corporate America anymore.

Warranties are a Liability to Mazda Corp. If they void warranties they remove the liability from their balance sheet, etc. This is good for financial reporting. Positive financial reporting probably means higher bonuses for Execs. Execs like higher bonuses.

Of course they probably have some sort of program to reward dealers for voiding warranties, or at a minimum reducing warranty work.

[Betelgeuse]

I would even go so far as to speculate that MazdaUSA probably has a bonus program to reward dealers for turning in warranty fraud cases, and there are probably metrics for warranty work dollars that dealers are held to when determining their year-end factory bonus (which is the only money dealers really make).



I'm pretty sure you're right about that. It happens in the computer service industry. If we do too many warranty repairs, hp charges us more for parts or we get less discounts. Same thing with Apple, etc. It would make sense in the Auto service industry as well.

But I've seen dealers bend over backwards for people so the outcome, imo, still rests heavily on the dealer's overall attitude.

[ehidle]

Warranties are a Liability to Mazda Corp. If they void warranties they remove the liability from their balance sheet, etc. This is good for financial reporting. Positive financial reporting probably means higher bonuses for Execs. Execs like higher bonuses.

Of course they probably have some sort of program to reward dealers for voiding warranties, or at a minimum reducing warranty work.

Good point about the execs.

But, I don't think they can overtly pay dealers to void warranties. However, what they can do is use the amount of warranty dollars spent by Mazda at a dealer as a measure of that dealership's overall performance, and set their quarterly or annual bonus accordingly.

In other words, they can't pay you to void a warranty, but they can sure as heck reduce your bonus if you do too much warranty work. This is an incentive to the "it's normal" explanation that you get 99 times out of 100 when you go to the dealer shop for warranty work.

Case in point, my other ride is a 2003 pathfinder. The second winter I had it, it started misbehaving - it would not go into the higher gears at all when it was cold, so I would end up driving down the highway at 4000 RPM at 55mph on my way to work for the first 10 minutes or so. "It's normal" because it's waiting for the transmission to warm up. I took it to 3 different dealers. It was always "normal," even though I also drove a new one one morning and it did not do it. They refused to document my complaint beyond "customer reports transmission problem. No problem found."

Long story short, I brought it in for it's 60k mile service at around 62k, and I get a call, "Hey, did you know your transmission won't go into high gears when it's cold? You need a new transmission, and it costs $5000," 2k miles after the warranty on the powertrain expired.

You can't tell me there wasn't something fishy going on there. :D

[ehidle]

I'm pretty sure you're right about that. It happens in the computer service industry. If we do too many warranty repairs, hp charges us more for parts or we get less discounts. Same thing with Apple, etc. It would make sense in the Auto service industry as well.

But I've seen dealers bend over backwards for people so the outcome, imo, still rests heavily on the dealer's overall attitude.

You would be so surprised how far you can get just being NICE to the people working at the dealership. I've seen so many people in the shop yelling and screaming at people who are just trying to feed their kids and send them to college. I can't imagine they got much help.

[builthatch]

I took it to 3 different dealers. It was always "normal," even though I also drove a new one one morning and it did not do it. They refused to document my complaint beyond "customer reports transmission problem. No problem found."

Long story short, I brought it in for it's 60k mile service at around 62k, and I get a call, "Hey, did you know your transmission won't go into high gears when it's cold? You need a new transmission, and it costs $5000," 2k miles after the warranty on the powertrain expired.

You can't tell me there wasn't something fishy going on there. :D

did you pursue that? there are numerous documented instances of you complaining about it prior to the warranty expiring. surely you can get that taken care of FOC with some phone calls and stammering...

i know i would (scratch)

how you ever let it slide 3 times, i don't understand. i'd have raised absolute hell until something happened in my favor and the problem was corrected to spec, probably by the second time.

i honestly don't take crap from anyone when it comes to an investment and/or a tool which cost me good money. if i have an issue, it gets corrected. i just keep escalating things until it happens. the old addage "knowledge is power" is oh-so-true, as is a strong will ; )


You would be so surprised how far you can get just being NICE to the people working at the dealership.

did it help you with your pathfinder? i'm not saying be unreasonable, but for god's sake, stand up for what you pay for, and for what you rightly deserve. You know it as well as i that the first line of defense at these dealers will take advantage of people's fear of confrontation, lack of knowledge and inherently weak will.

[ehidle]

did it help you with your pathfinder? i'm not saying be unreasonable, but for god's sake, stand up for what you pay for, and for what you rightly deserve. You know it as well as i that the first line of defense at these dealers will take advantage of people's fear of confrontation, lack of knowledge and inherently weak will.

I couldn't agree more with this philosophy, and yes, it did work just fine. I went to a dealer I hadn't gone to and just explained what happened, and we sat down and brainstormed about possible causes. At one point, I suggested there might not be a problem with the hardware, but rather with what the computer THINKS about the hardware (this is after all what I do for a living). Sure enough, the A/T temp sensor was telling the computer the trans was 30 degrees colder than it actually was, so the computer was locking out high gears to help warm it up.

$50 part..

I never back down if I know I am right, but at the same time I am tactful about doing it. You might be right, but that doesn't mean you win. :)

[builthatch]

I couldn't agree more with this philosophy, and yes, it did work just fine. I went to a dealer I hadn't gone to and just explained what happened, and we sat down and brainstormed about possible causes. At one point, I suggested there might not be a problem with the hardware, but rather with what the computer THINKS about the hardware (this is after all what I do for a living). Sure enough, the A/T temp sensor was telling the computer the trans was 30 degrees colder than it actually was, so the computer was locking out high gears to help warm it up.

$50 part..

I never back down if I know I am right, but at the same time I am tactful about doing it. You might be right, but that doesn't mean you win. :)

right, tact is of the utmost importance, i agree wholeheartedly. I definately don't want to promote being rude or disorderly! I just hate to see anyone get run-over by a dealership without truly exploring all options, and stopping any forward momentum toward the problem getting fixed simply because there are one or more "eunuchs" involved.

i had an 07 si (not the one i have now, the one before that) which had a battery of problems, i mean, soup to nuts, issue after issue, and eventually it was found to be that the car was hit sometime before we bought it...a brand new car, and the damage resulting from the hit contributed to many of the problems we were seeing with the car. the original dealer from where my broker procured the car denied any involvement, and was highly resistent, hoping i would pursue the lemon law i guess, however my broker stepped in and ate the car. i know not everyone has that luxury, so i encourage people to push and push as i stated if you believe you are deserving yet denied.

[smakdown61]

Dealerships are not there to be your friend. They're not there to help you reach the best possible solution. They are there for one thing only...what every business drives for...and that is to make the maximum profit they can off of you. Everything they do is based around that philosophy. Now, what makes them the most profit may not be the most honest nor whats best for consumer satisfaction. I will always attempt to be nice to a dealer until they either A) Get an attitude with me or B) Disrespect my intelligence as a consumer. I don't pussy around with dealers...if I have a problem i'll tell it to them firm (firm does not mean yell). No dicking around, either they're going to fix it or not.

[Betelgeuse]

I

I never back down if I know I am right, but at the same time I am tactful about doing it. You might be right, but that doesn't mean you win. :)

+1

It's about taking the path of low resistance. Be nice first and slowly escalate things as needed even if it means switching dealers. I've never had a problem with this approach, but I'm also blessed with a dealer that have competent mechanics (another important factor). I've had a tranny + engine replaced on my last car without any drama.

On that car I had a tranny cooler on and had issues with hard shifting (I know it wasn't the cooler because it was a common issue on some cars) but the dealer decided to call up Mazda USA. The service advisor came to me and said they wanted to void the tranny warranty because they thought I was racing it. He said they didn't but I should take the cooler off and bring it back and they'll take care of it. They end up putting in a brand new tranny (not rebuilt) and paid for a rental no questions asked. Had I been an as*hole about the whole thing, my drivetrain warranty would've been voided for sure.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

The definition of TACT: The ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a manner that they look forward to the trip.

[ehidle]

The definition of TACT: The ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a manner that they look forward to the trip.

+1: Funny

:D

[C.A.T.A.P]

Last time i checked they had to prove that the mod caused the problem and if it didnt they had to fix the broken part.

[Darksun280]

Last time i checked they had to prove that the mod caused the problem and if it didnt they had to fix the broken part.

LOL yeah right I learned very quickly that thats not the case. Guilty until proven innocent my friend.

[jaydubz]

LOL yeah right I learned very quickly that thats not the case. Guilty until proven innocent my friend.

You know the funny part Darksun, if your dealership found your info on these forums and used that against you, then they should have also found the other 93 posts that reference engine mount failure! LOL, what a piece of work! (uhm)

[whitey4311]

Sorry about my ignorance but how are the dealers able to come here and determine who someone is based on a screen name?

Are they really doing this?

A friend has an Evo and he said Mitsu is know for doing the same thing and going to the race tracks to get copies of the ticket slips and peoples names.

I think its crazy work for them but you all deserve it if you are modding and racing then trying to make warranty claims after putting it back to stock then standing there with your thumb up your ass like you arent sure what happened.

Sorry but thats my opinion.

[knowledge007]

It all comes down to the dealer. That is final.

[ehidle]

Last time i checked they had to prove that the mod caused the problem and if it didnt they had to fix the broken part.

The act you are referring to has been brought to my attention, but I have not had time to read it yet. Unless the act preempts any other agreement to the contrary, it is possible for you to alienate yourself from its protections.

The language in the Mazda agreement does precisely that by entering you into an agreement that makes the warranty unenforceable if you modify the car AT ALL.

I can't remember the name of the Act, but I'll see what I can dig up on it this week if I have time. Anyone remember the name of it?

[ehidle]

Sorry about my ignorance but how are the dealers able to come here and determine who someone is based on a screen name?

Are they really doing this?

A friend has an Evo and he said Mitsu is know for doing the same thing and going to the race tracks to get copies of the ticket slips and peoples names.

I think its crazy work for them but you all deserve it if you are modding and racing then trying to make warranty claims after putting it back to stock then standing there with your thumb up your ass like you arent sure what happened.

Sorry but thats my opinion.

Mitsubishi is also about a stone's throw from Chapter 11 at any given time, and their quality is such that warranty repairs are a major drag on their bottom line.

I don't disagree with what they are doing, though. The warranty obviously is not meant (nor required) to cover anything other than "intended use," which is as a "passenger vehicle," not a "race vehicle." I would be perfectly okay with them prosecuting warranty fraud cases against race car owners.

[Rany]

The language in the Mazda agreement does precisely that by entering you into an agreement that makes the warranty unenforceable if you modify the car AT ALL.



if you put 18X 8 rims on your car, no matter the offset, you have modified it from factory and there fore according to what you just said the warranty can be voided

[Darksun280]

You know the funny part Darksun, if your dealership found your info on these forums and used that against you, then they should have also found the other 93 posts that reference engine mount failure! LOL, what a piece of work! (uhm)

Thats the irony of it all is the thread they got my broken motor mount pictures from the O.P mount broke EXACTLY like mine and he has mods out the ass and they still warrantied him. Me I guess i can just eat a dick.....

[Rubasu]

I work as a tech for acura and can tell you from experience that it is really not as easy as you think to void a warranty. We have replaced a number of popped motors due to over revving and missed shifts in RSXs. Two examples that first was a heavily modded out RSX the driver missed a shift and over revved the engine. He brought it in and was straight up honest about everything so we helped him out this one time only. Owner was happy and I made a ton of hours doing the job : ). The second was another heavily modded RSX that guy missed a shift and sent a piston throught the block. He spent the next day removing all of the mods he had on the car as was obvious due to the hacked pcm harness and various missing bolts under the hood. He cleared all the codes and had it towed in as no start and when we pushed it into the shop and found why the car would not start we called and told him we would not cover it because of all the missing pieces from modding the car and the hacked up wiring harnesses. and he told us to prove anything was ever on the car and threatened to get lawyers involved and in hte end it was just easier to fix then to hassle with guy. So the point is be honest you may be surprised by the answer you may get. Also try to talk to the tech himself the service writer has no idea what it takes to do the job and the tech may not have a problem with the mod as long as it does not keep him from doing his job or make his job harder...

[jaydubz]

I work as a tech for acura and can tell you from experience that it is really not as easy as you think to void a warranty. We have replaced a number of popped motors due to over revving and missed shifts in RSXs. Two examples that first was a heavily modded out RSX the driver missed a shift and over revved the engine. He brought it in and was straight up honest about everything so we helped him out this one time only. Owner was happy and I made a ton of hours doing the job : ). The second was another heavily modded RSX that guy missed a shift and sent a piston throught the block. He spent the next day removing all of the mods he had on the car as was obvious due to the hacked pcm harness and various missing bolts under the hood. He cleared all the codes and had it towed in as no start and when we pushed it into the shop and found why the car would not start we called and told him we would not cover it because of all the missing pieces from modding the car and the hacked up wiring harnesses. and he told us to prove anything was ever on the car and threatened to get lawyers involved and in hte end it was just easier to fix then to hassle with guy. So the point is be honest you may be surprised by the answer you may get. Also try to talk to the tech himself the service writer has no idea what it takes to do the job and the tech may not have a problem with the mod as long as it does not keep him from doing his job or make his job harder...

That is actually very helpful Rubasu! Thank you for helping! Darksun, is that possible for you to do?

[ehidle]

if you put 18X 8 rims on your car, no matter the offset, you have modified it from factory and there fore according to what you just said the warranty can be voided

That's exactly right.

They do not define very well what they mean by "modification," so it places the burden on the owner to clarify in advance - basically to get a blessing from Mazda.

I know it seems asinine, but most people sign all the papers without even reading them, and doing this gives them an "out" argument should the issue ever be forced. They could easily argue in court that you alienated your rights under The Act and entered instead into a general "Agreement not to modify."

Like I've said before, I am not a lawyer, so your mileage may vary, but reading the words in black and white, it is not difficult to see that, in plain English, they can void your warranty for anything they consider to be a modification. The burden is on you to make sure anything you do to the car is kosher.

[SuperStretch18]

I know it seems asinine, but most people sign all the papers without even reading them, and doing this gives them an "out" argument should the issue ever be forced. They could easily argue in court that you alienated your rights under The Act and entered instead into a general "Agreement not to modify."


Please keep in mind that the warranty is not exactly like a contract. It is the manufacturer's guarantee on their workmanship. There are no terms that the buyer has to fulfill to get warranty coverage. Look over your paperwork, there is nothing that you signed in order to be covered by the warranty and if you sell your car, the coverage automatically transfers with the car.

The government gets interested in warranties because they want to make sure that manufacturer's honor the promises they make. Please read the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. It is designed so that a company like Mazda can not get out of the guarantee they place on their drivetrain (for example) if you put new wheels on. They do not have to cover damage that you cause, but they do need to cover everything else they said they would. A line in the owner's manual does not override a federal act...

[Darksun280]

That is actually very helpful Rubasu! Thank you for helping! Darksun, is that possible for you to do?

They voided me in the system THEN called me and told me. Also I was out of state at some unknown dealer 120miles away from my house. My dealer back home would have never had done that to me. I got G'd straight up. When I talked to them on Saturday they said no problem it'll be ready by wed next thing you know wed i get a call saying there not fixing it and they voided my warranty.

[gr3y]

I was under the impression that they could not void your whole warranty, only refuse to do service or void a specific warranty issue.

Also, I think someone here, with basic legal vocab knowledge should write us up a professional form that we could go to the dealer with, before we add a mod basically saying:

I so and so dealer/tech guy provide this written consent that so and so customer's addition or replacement of so and so mod or part will not completely void his warranty. I also agree to pay said customer $1,000,000.00 USD if I'm a lying SOB blah blah blah blah blah.

Xdealer/tech signature Xcustomer signature

:)

[ehidle]

Please keep in mind that the warranty is not exactly like a contract. It is the manufacturer's guarantee on their workmanship. There are no terms that the buyer has to fulfill to get warranty coverage. Look over your paperwork, there is nothing that you signed in order to be covered by the warranty and if you sell your car, the coverage automatically transfers with the car.

The government gets interested in warranties because they want to make sure that manufacturer's honor the promises they make. Please read the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. It is designed so that a company like Mazda can not get out of the guarantee they place on their drivetrain (for example) if you put new wheels on. They do not have to cover damage that you cause, but they do need to cover everything else they said they would. A line in the owner's manual does not override a federal act...

So noted, thanks for citing the name of the act so I could go read it. If you go back to one of my original posts in this thread, I did demonstrate how they made the warranty booklet, and everything in it, part of the contract. Whether contract law or warranty law supersedes is a question I need to find an answer to. But, any language in the warranty booklet that is NOT warranty-related in assuredly treated as an amendment to the contract.

Anyhoo...

The Act doesn't seem to be as strong as most people here think. It does not supersede normal Warranty Law, nor is it made the dominant law pertaining to consumer warranties, but it does serve to protect the consumer from the situation you mention, and from other things like the manufacturer requiring dealer service in order to keep the warranty.

It does place the burden on the manufacturer to demonstrate that the modification caused the failure, but that is NOT difficult to do for popular power-increasing engine mods. All they have to demonstrate is that your mod caused any part of the engine to operate out of original engineering specification, and any court of competent jurisdiction will accept the argument that any piece of machinery operated out of spec will ultimately fail. My attorney is very clear on this, and as an engineer, I would agree 100%.

The bottom line is that the manufacturer is well within their rights to deny warranty coverage for any problem caused by your mod being there, or by any damage you might do while installing it. I am still researching "intended use" restrictions, but I need to get a little deeper into standard warranty law in order to determine whether they can follow the SCCA around. I forgot to ask about this this morning.

Never a dull moment in this place :D

[john blutarski]

The warranty is through Mazda, not the dealer. From what I've read, no dealer has the authority to void your entire warranty. All they can do is deny a specific claim and possibly blackball you from their dealership for warranty claims.

[ehidle]

The warranty is through Mazda, not the dealer. From what I've read, no dealer has the authority to void your entire warranty. All they can do is deny a specific claim and possibly blackball you from their dealership for warranty claims.

All dealers are authorized to act on behalf of Mazda when dealing with warranty claims. They are allowed to make the decision on whether a warranty claim is honored, and the consumer may appeal to Mazda if they do not like the dealer's decision.

Mazda itself does not likely own any means by which to perform warranty service.

[SuperStretch18]

Actually, dealers need to get approval from MNAO on all warranty service. There's a tech line that they call and they often need to transmit photos of the vehicle before they are authorized to do the work. Mazda does not do warranty service themselves, but they do pay out of pocket for all warranty work done, so they maintain control of the process.

Warranty repairs pay less than regular service visits, so if you have a busy dealership or one that is strictly conserned about bottom line dollars, they will try to get out of claims whenever possible. If you don't get the answer that you were looking for, you should try another dealer before you approach MNAO.

I do agree with you that they should not be responsible for covering damage caused by power mods. Someone puts a boost controller on their car and blows a piston because they were boosting to 28 psi, they should have to pay for their repairs on principle...

[Darksun280]

All dealers are authorized to act on behalf of Mazda when dealing with warranty claims. They are allowed to make the decision on whether a warranty claim is honored, and the consumer may appeal to Mazda if they do not like the dealer's decision.

Mazda itself does not likely own any means by which to perform warranty service.

Mazda backs these dealers blindly. I think they really have no choice since the dealer represent them.....

[ehidle]

Actually, dealers need to get approval from MNAO on all warranty service. There's a tech line that they call and they often need to transmit photos of the vehicle before they are authorized to do the work. Mazda does not do warranty service themselves, but they do pay out of pocket for all warranty work done, so they maintain control of the process.

Warranty repairs pay less than regular service visits, so if you have a busy dealership or one that is strictly conserned about bottom line dollars, they will try to get out of claims whenever possible. If you don't get the answer that you were looking for, you should try another dealer before you approach MNAO.

I do agree with you that they should not be responsible for covering damage caused by power mods. Someone puts a boost controller on their car and blows a piston because they were boosting to 28 psi, they should have to pay for their repairs on principle...

+1 all around. This is all great information and good points, and all true. Of course Mazda reimburses dealers for the work, so there has to be control over the process.

I speculate there is probably still some dollar cutoff where Mazda doesn't want to be bothered. It only makes sense that they don't want to hear about every little tiny thing that goes wrong, but if something is going to cost $1000 to fix, I am sure they want to hear about it first.

[blacksheepms3]

the car is already fast as hell, if you want to keep the warranty it would be wise to either use mazdaspeed products or just mod areas of the car that aren't likely to be covered in the warranty anyway, like the suspension...

sorry for the newb question, but suspensions are likely to be not covered by warranty?

[gr3y]

sorry for the newb question, but suspensions are likely to be not covered by warranty?

I believe it's covered under the powertrain.. why wouldn't they?