Synapse Hybrid Bov Review

[driver311]

First off I wanna thank pg for hooking me up with this badboy. Looks dope for sure but how does it work?................ FACKING SICK!!!!!! My car has been hitting around 14-15psi max in 3rd and 4th gear and touches 15-16 in 5th and would fall off hard in every gear to 11psi by 6k. Now its a whole new car. I hooked it up recirculation. It has the option to go either way. Im hitting 16-17psi in 3rd and 4th and it touches 18psi in 5th now. Car holds boost much much better. By 6k Im still over 14psi in the upper gears. Thats much better than before. I took some pics for you guys to see this badboy. Enjoy

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/srtparts104.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/srtparts105.jpg
Thought Id throw this little one in to.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/srtparts106.jpg

[Sierra117]

Its also built like a brick shit house. I have one sitting in my garage right now, lol. Its heavy as hell, it looks like I could drop kick it against a wall and let it drop the to the concrete floor...and the BOV would win.

[Andrade08]

LOL! That is a big honkin BPV!!! Looks like a space gun! I like it... :)

[SPEED3TYPE2]

wicked sick brother!!!

[shaodome]

sound clips?

[wisniaPl]

sound clips.....do you know can it work with tmic in recic mode or its too big??is it direct rplacement same flange??

[sk00terz]

since you got it from pg, does that mean they will start selling these soon?

also, sound clips if possible

[Sierra117]

sound clips.....do you know can it work with tmic in recic mode or its too big??is it direct rplacement same flange??

It takes a bit of trial and error, and you have to snip the recirc hose a touch, but it'll fit. You need to get one of the APR flanges, either the GReddy or HKS, and then a flange that mounts from the valve to the APR flange.

[clos561]

i wanted ot get this piece before i got my hks.

[Sierra117]

If anyone is looking to pick one up, shoot me a PM. I have all the needed hardware, and it was only run on my car for a about 100 miles or so (three days of commuting).

[MADTIG]

That's a big difference in psi after only switching valves. If possible, do you think we can see some vid clips or charts? Not another one of those "doubt you" posts, but it sounds too good to be true. Thanks. Nice looking piece nonetheless.

[Sierra117]

That's a big difference in psi after only switching valves. If possible, do you think we can see some vid clips or charts? Not another one of those "doubt you" posts, but it sounds too good to be true. Thanks. Nice looking piece nonetheless.

I'll let Driver311 speak for himself, but its a pretty well accepted assumption that the stockers leak and loose boost up in the top end. Plenty of people installing new BPV/BOVs have shown holding a pound or so more of boost all the way through 5500/6000 (depending on a CDFP).

[driver311]

I dont know what to tell you guys. I picked 1-2psi across the board easily. Up top maybe even 2-3psi. Holds good.

[Craighjr]

The valve is as fast acting as they say, I hold more boost also. I am running vta and may be having a problem with the anti-stall kit sealing or leaking. I tryed to fix it but haven't run the car since Saturday to verify proper operation now.

[AutoXRacer]

That's a big difference in psi after only switching valves. If possible, do you think we can see some vid clips or charts? Not another one of those "doubt you" posts, but it sounds too good to be true. Thanks. Nice looking piece nonetheless.

My stocker leaked!!! I gained one solid psi and spike at a solid 20. With the stocker, it was spiking all over the place, 17, 18, 19...but now I get a solid 20 and settles down to 16.6.

In addition, the boost builds up instantly between shifts now. With the stock valve, the boost built up progressively in between shifts. The stock valve reacts too slow and leaks...

Definitely more responsive since I upgraded my BPV!!!

Upgrade that BPV!!! (2thumbs)

I also wanted a Synapse, but I don't like to be the Guinea pig for new applications... (lol2)

[Craighjr]

311 and I both have them installed. Your not the test pig now!

[AutoXRacer]

311 and I both have them installed. Your not the test pig now!
I wish I would have known that before my HKS purchase... (thought)
Though I love my HKS!!! (2thumbs)

[tru-boost]

you gained that boost over the stock valve or a FORGE ? i thought you had a forge on it at one point ??? i saw very similar gains when i switched to the forge.

[Craighjr]

I wish I would have known that before my HKS purchase... (thought)
Though I love my HKS!!! (2thumbs)

Be happy mine runs like SSSSSHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT!!! I have a video that I will post tonight. I have both vac ports on top to the manifold nipple where the stock one goes, and the boost only port goes right to the compressor cover where the wastegate line comes from. Any ideas whats up? I am going lean as hell and sputtering while on the gas after a shift.

[Sierra117]

Are you running VTA?

[AutoXRacer]

Be happy mine runs like SSSSSHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT!!! I have a video that I will post tonight. I have both vac ports on top to the manifold nipple where the stock one goes, and the boost only port goes right to the compressor cover where the wastegate line comes from. Any ideas whats up? I am going lean as hell and sputtering while on the gas after a shift.

Are you talking about the synapse or the HKS? Both vac ports? I only have one!!! (huh)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/Milkywayman22/Mazdaspeed%203/HKS%20SSQV/DSC02564.jpg

[07speed3]

Are you talking about the synapse or the HKS? Both vac ports? I only have one!!! (huh)

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/Milkywayman22/Mazdaspeed%203/HKS%20SSQV/DSC02564.jpg

I believe he is talkin about the synapse, you can see in drivers pics it has to vac hoses on it...what is that?

[Craighjr]

Are you running VTA?

Yes HKS was fine this way.

Synapse BOV. Top 2 ports connected to oem BOV line. 3rd port to compressor output to wastegate. Anti-stall kit.
First video shows the bog and bumble when reving in neutral.
Second video shows bad compressor surge.
Third video shows the car driving on a 2-3 shift, bogging, bucking and having an AFR of 17-19!
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/th_MVI_2890.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/?action=view&current=MVI_2890.flv)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/th_MVI_2891.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/?action=view&current=MVI_2891.flv)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/th_MVI_2893.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/?action=view&current=MVI_2893.flv)

[thanotosq]

...(omg)...

[Sierra117]

Then run it in recirc. I ran mine in VTA for about ten minutes, kept stalling. Plugged in the recirc and it was fine. No offense, but I don't understand why you insist on running VTA when you know that running recirc will work just fine.

[clos561]

Yes HKS was fine this way.

Synapse BOV. Top 2 ports connected to oem BOV line. 3rd port to compressor output to wastegate. Anti-stall kit.
First video shows the bog and bumble when reving in neutral.
Second video shows bad compressor surge.
Third video shows the car driving on a 2-3 shift, bogging, bucking and having an AFR of 17-19!
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/th_MVI_2890.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/?action=view&current=MVI_2890.flv)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/th_MVI_2891.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/?action=view&current=MVI_2891.flv)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/th_MVI_2893.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/craighjr/?action=view&current=MVI_2893.flv)

lol dma that shitty, why is it doing that?

[Craighjr]

I have an inlet pipe that will not work with recirc right now. Do you have the anti-stall kit they sell? With it the car should run just fine. My HKS was fine the morning I put this on. My car is tuned to run VTA so its a non issue. There is somthing fubar with the valve in my opinion.

[Sierra117]

I have an inlet pipe that will not work with recirc right now. Do you have the anti-stall kit they sell? With it the car should run just fine. My HKS was fine the morning I put this on. My car is tuned to run VTA so its a non issue. There is somthing fubar with the valve in my opinion.
Negative on the anti stall. However, when I did run it VTA, it was fine when running and after it had been running, just on start up it was difficult.

[driver311]

Mine is working great. I have my third port open. Only attached the first two ports, to the oem bov line. Didnt mess with anything else. Pulls hard.

[MADTIG]

My stocker leaked!!! I gained one solid psi and spike at a solid 20. With the stocker, it was spiking all over the place, 17, 18, 19...but now I get a solid 20 and settles down to 16.6.

In addition, the boost builds up instantly between shifts now. With the stock valve, the boost built up progressively in between shifts. The stock valve reacts too slow and leaks...

Definitely more responsive since I upgraded my BPV!!!

Upgrade that BPV!!! (2thumbs)

I also wanted a Synapse, but I don't like to be the Guinea pig for new applications... (lol2)

I did replace my bpv to a turbosmart, but i also installed my ETS at the same time so i don't know if i gained boost from the valve or ic. Guess i'll have to do some testing. Even with these mods i only gained about .5 - 1 pound of boost which doesn't seem like much to me. Am i expecting too much? boost went from a steady 15.5(hold) to a 16 - 16.4(hold). I had a cai before the valve and ic install. I was considering replacing my turbosmart for a Synapse...

[flyrevs]

I dont know what to tell you guys. I picked 1-2psi across the board easily. Up top maybe even 2-3psi. Holds good.
i was real glad to see your setup, I have the same fmic you have. any problems with the install ? you still like it ??

[Craighjr]

Mine is functioning more normally now. Don't know if I'm giving the valve a thumbs up yet, but I'm not pissed now.

[driver311]

so i went ahead and hooked up the third nipple per their instructions. Exactly like they suggest. Car runs just as good if not better than before. I made sure to have the vacuum t's pointing the right way and all.

Car holds boost so much better now. Its even better than the forge with the red spring. I love it. Looks, sounds and performs the part. Good stuff.

[Ajburr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxFFJQZOEiY

dunno if this has been posted yet

[Captain KRM P5]

we will be selling these soon. i had not listed them previously because A) was not sure they'd fit and B) wanted to make sure they worked well. driver311 has been kind enough to test these out for us and i'll be listing a package deal on the website in the next day or so.

[controlo]

if that's accurate, it's amazing.

[BDL]

311......Synapse is claiming a 28hp increase with this video.......does that seem accurate.......more that a 10% hp increase over stock?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6881476950059677707&q=synapse+bov+mazdaspeed+3&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[palerider]

Mine is functioning more normally now. Don't know if I'm giving the valve a thumbs up yet, but I'm not pissed now.

you are definetly the most relaxed dude on the board

[flyrevs]

we will be selling these soon. i had not listed them previously because A) was not sure they'd fit and B) wanted to make sure they worked well. driver311 has been kind enough to test these out for us and i'll be listing a package deal on the website in the next day or so. sweet, I want one of these. Please post when they are available for the MS3. ProtegeGarage rocks!!! (yippy)

[driver311]

311......Synapse is claiming a 28hp increase with this video.......does that seem accurate.......more that a 10% hp increase over stock?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6881476950059677707&q=synapse+bov+mazdaspeed+3&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I would say most definately. Think about it. Every pound of boost is worth 10whp on this car up to 20psi. So if Im holding 3more psi at 5700rmps then you have your answer. Before I was holdiing 11psi at 6k, and now Im holding 14psi at 6k. The forge couldnt even do that. Im very happy with this product and recommend that you swoop one up through Ken over at Pg. He continues to try and offer the best products at great prices. Thanks PG> (friday)

[AutoXRacer]

(bang) I wanted one of these... I guess I jumped the gun too soon... :(

[driver311]

311......Synapse is claiming a 28hp increase with this video.......does that seem accurate.......more that a 10% hp increase over stock?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6881476950059677707&q=synapse+bov+mazdaspeed+3&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Also remember that it may not peak at 28whp more but at a given point in the rpm band it might do it. Im guessing above 5500.

[MS3Jon]

That's amazing. I'm definatly putting this on my "things to get" list.

[dread]

only problem is that the boost decreased on the car in the dyno by 2-3 psi so the hp gain is most likely from the octane booster. Its amazing how much hype a product can get from a b.s. dyno. How can you make claims like that with all the variables that are not accounted for. Notice they don't show you boost after the BOV was installed but its more than 2psi less. I asked for the charts and they posted them on another forum.

[staples187]

only problem is that the boost decreased on the car in the dyno by 2-3 psi so the hp gain is most likely from the octane booster. Its amazing how much hype a product can get from a b.s. dyno. How can you make claims like that with all the variables that are not accounted for. Notice they don't show you boost after the BOV was installed but its more than 2psi less. I asked for the charts and they posted them on another forum.

Wow you're so negative, pure boner killer. Whether or not it gives you an additional 28hp isn't important, functionality and reliability is. There are multiple reviews out there stating this device works extremely well and yes of course the company that is endorsing their own product is going to say things to their own benefit, that's how they make their money. I think it's good that some people are taking a different path away from the HKS SSQVs and the Forge and trying something new.

[dread]

Wow you're so negative, pure boner killer. Whether or not it gives you an additional 28hp isn't important, functionality and reliability is. There are multiple reviews out there stating this device works extremely well and yes of course the company that is endorsing their own product is going to say things to their own benefit, that's how they make their money. I think it's good that some people are taking a different path away from the HKS SSQVs and the Forge and trying something new.

I am just being a realist. I like this bov in all honosty but I don't agree with this marketing trick. The dyno is not controlling for important variables and I cannot accept those results, especially. Considering the boost graph showed a 2 psi loss in pressure after the bov was installed. I am looking forward to more dynos.

[flyrevs]

I am just being a realist. I like this bov in all honosty but I don't agree with this marketing trick. The dyno is not controlling for important variables and I cannot accept those results, especially. Considering the boost graph showed a 2 psi loss in pressure after the bov was installed. I am looking forward to more dynos.
yes this brings up a good point, driver311 got 2 or 3 psi more with the bov, the dyno shows 2 psi less, but a 28 hp gain....... I like this valve too, but need this explained. If the synchronic people are watching this board, pls post an answer or do a few more dynos. If the product really does what they say it does, the dyno will prove it.

[SPEED305]

wow. i want this now!!

[dread]

yes this brings up a good point, driver311 got 2 or 3 psi more with the bov, the dyno shows 2 psi less, but a 28 hp gain....... I like this valve too, but need this explained. If the synchronic people are watching this board, pls post an answer or do a few more dynos. If the product really does what they say it does, the dyno will prove it.

here is there explanation from another forum sorry I don't feel like posting the charts.

"This first chart shows the boost line in Blue. Horsepower is in green. The solid line is the run with Synchronic BOV, the dotted line is the baseline run. It looks unusual how we're making more power with lower boost. But this is the same thing that we saw with the Corvette and Bosch DVs.

It sounds counterintuitive that you are running less boost with a BOV that doesn't leak. However, when you have a leak in the boost system, you unload the compressor, effectively overspinning the turbo a little. This means that the turbo is probably not operating in the right efficiency island of the compressor map and making more heat. More heat = more pressure. More heat also means less dense air and lower molar quantities of Oxygen. At the same time, the exhaust manifold backpressure is likely to be higher for that given shaft speed RPM. Which means worse exhaust scavenging and dirtier charge = lower BMEP cylinder pressure."


I guess it would make sense, but the turbo was within its efficiency range with the stock valve so its not pushing hot air.

[clos561]

hks is a good piece and i hold boost, only diff is diaphram vs pull type valve. i would think that the pull type releases faster.

[staples187]

I am just being a realist. I like this bov in all honosty but I don't agree with this marketing trick. The dyno is not controlling for important variables and I cannot accept those results, especially. Considering the boost graph showed a 2 psi loss in pressure after the bov was installed. I am looking forward to more dynos.

I agree with that statement. The better way to get in touch with them is to find the mazdaspeed 3 bov review on youtube and post a comment in the form of a question. They're pretty good at replying.

[MADTIG]

...i have no patience. Ahhh, i wanna see dyno! I want this valve so bad, but i never take things by words... eyes need proof.

[flyrevs]

yea lets see a dyno.....
driver311 did you run the dyno yet ? PLEASE post results. I think a lot of people want to get this but need some proof first.

[sleeper3]

if you're buying a bypass valve to pick up horsepower, I'm laughing.

also, if you don't have a leaky stock valve (I didn't) nothing is going to change, unless you plan on running more boost eventually. you'll just have a more robust, more reliable, nicer looking, probably cooler sounding bypass valve.

also, if you want to know what it's going to do on your car (these speed3's all seem to have a personality of their own) just buy the thing and put it on. I am sure if you don't like it, you won't have a problem getting rid of it. everyone seems to have a boner for it right now.

[dread]

+1, this company is really good at generating hype for their product.

[palerider]

I just got my new synapse in the mail today...in order to see what the hoopla was all about I decided to take it apart. Youre never gonna believe what I found.... the hype was for real..

Inside I found... a turbonator.

[sleeper3]

I just got my new synapse in the mail today...in order to see what the hoopla was all about I decided to take it apart. Youre never gonna believe what I found.... the hype was for real..

Inside I found... a turbonator.

wtf does that even mean?

does it add 533 hp?

[palerider]

wtf does that even mean?

does it add 533 hp?

google turbonator dude ....you'll lol

[sleeper3]

oh lol @ this picture included on the web site

http://www.turbonator.com/Assets/DSC00345.jpg


so easy this hot chick in a bikini can install it!

[MADTIG]

if you're buying a bypass valve to pick up horsepower, I'm laughing.

also, if you don't have a leaky stock valve (I didn't) nothing is going to change, unless you plan on running more boost eventually. you'll just have a more robust, more reliable, nicer looking, probably cooler sounding bypass valve.

also, if you want to know what it's going to do on your car (these speed3's all seem to have a personality of their own) just buy the thing and put it on. I am sure if you don't like it, you won't have a problem getting rid of it. everyone seems to have a boner for it right now.

My thoughts exactly, but driver is claiming a 2-3 boost gain from stock to forge to now this, "synchronic". To good to be true?? I hate to be a doubter cause it's such a negative thing to do but...

[sleeper3]

My thoughts exactly, but driver is claiming a 2-3 boost gain from stock to forge to now this, "synchronic". To good to be true?? I hate to be a doubter cause it's such a negative thing to do but...

I am pretty sure I remember him saying he has a leaky stock valve. that was my original point. if you have a leaky valve, it's going to help. I'm not 100% sure that he compared the new one to the stocker, cause I know he had a forge before this one, but I am assuming that is the case. I don't doubt his results. he's been 100% honest every time I've delt with him.

[MADTIG]

I know, that's why i said "stock to forge to now this, synchronic" and it's nothing personal to driver. My point was that, "if you're buying a bypass valve to pick up horsepower, I'm laughing." 2-3boost=hp from a forge to synchronic sounds a bit much. If it's true then im ordering right away.

[sleeper3]

well if it helps our tiny turbos operate more in their efficiency rage (21 compressor PSI from what I've read) then it could lower boost and increase horsepower. if there is a boost leak, it could very well raise psi, put the turbo into efficient operation and increase hp by even more!

[MADTIG]

I just want to see results. What i'm reading in this thread(+2-3psi) plus what i see in the synapse vid(-2psi and 28hp gain) just does not add up or make sense. But i am a noob and still learning so i'm not gonna put my foot waaay down. From my personal experience action or in this case charts or dyno speaks louder than words. In the end..i just wanna see.I don't wanna be pushy so i'll just sit back and wait now. (hmm)

[sleeper3]

I just want to see results. What i'm reading in this thread(+2-3psi) plus what i see in the synapse vid(-2psi and 28hp gain) just does not add up or make sense. But i am a noob and still learning so i'm not gonna put my foot waaay down. From my personal experience action or in this case charts or dyno speaks louder than words. In the end..i just wanna see.I don't wanna be pushy so i'll just sit back and wait now. (hmm)

did you read the post that was from the synapse people? basically, each turbo has an efficient operating range. ours maxes out at 21 psi I believe. you can push more boost, but you actually make less hp, because the air is so hot coming out of the turbo, that it actually has less oxygen in it (recall from physics class that as you heat air it expands, becoming less dense). without getting too technical on you, the law of diminishing returns is in full effect when it comes to turbos. a more efficient delivery system will releave some of the stress on the turbo, making it work less for boost, which will be realized in colder intake air temperatures (aka denser air) and more ponies. hope this helped!

[sleeper3]

that being said, each car is going to react differently, and if you want to know for sure, get one and pop it on. install on a valve takes like 5 minutes and they really aren't that expensive.

[MADTIG]

I believe what you say about our turbo efficiency but does that really apply to this thread? I'm not being a smart ass either. The reason why i ask is cause neither cars pushed close to 21+psi. Anyway, you're probably right though...i'll most likely ended up just trying it.

[sleeper3]

turbo efficiency comes into play if there is a leak. the turbo could be pushing more psi to make it look like it's normal, because some of the air is leaking. close the leak, the turbo doesn't have to work as hard, and efficiency goes up! you don't have to be at the maximum level for this to be the case.

[daonly1around]

i don't see this on PG website, is this available and how much is it?

[MADTIG]

turbo efficiency comes into play if there is a leak. the turbo could be pushing more psi to make it look like it's normal, because some of the air is leaking. close the leak, the turbo doesn't have to work as hard, and efficiency goes up! you don't have to be at the maximum level for this to be the case.

So if he gained a whopping 2-3psi does that mean his forge valve was leaking??

[MADTIG]

i don't see this on PG website, is this available and how much is it?

http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/product_info.php?cPath=183_289&products_id=1123

[sleeper3]

So if he gained a whopping 2-3psi does that mean his forge valve was leaking??

I'm not sure, I'd have to see dashhawk evidence of this. he's always saying how all these different parts are making his boost go up and down, but I haven't experienced that effect with anything I've put on, other than when I put my intercooler and bypass valve on I know I spike 1psi higher... nothing to write home about.

also, the ECU reads boost at the turbo outlet, and when you put a boost gauge in, you read it at the intake manifold. it's two different boost pressures. tough to interpret results this way, but a dyno is a dyno. there's no arguing. I'd like to see two dynos on the same day... one with a forge and one with this one. that would tell the whole story.

[sleeper3]

http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/product_info.php?cPath=183_289&products_id=1123

see it's not even expensive. if you're wondering what it does, just buy it!

[MADTIG]

tough to interpret results this way, but a dyno is a dyno. there's no arguing. I'd like to see two dynos on the same day... one with a forge and one with this one. that would tell the whole story.

I couldn't agree enough. Btw..."just buy it!" Lol, you ballin to be able to put it like that. Sure it's cheap for a valve, but $200 is still $200 haha. Plus i'm saving up for that rebuilt ko4....still waiting on reviews.

[dread]

what kind of adapter would I need with that?

[MADTIG]

They have several adapter flanges on their sight, but i don'ts knows which one.

[sleeper3]

what kind of adapter would I need with that?

just buy it and find out!


jkjk I think I heard the hks one works? or you need 2 of them or something. someone else will be better at this one than I am.

[Sierra117]

You need two if you get the GReddy style flange. If you get the HKS, I assume its just the same as the HKS kit for our car, with a snap ring. If you get the GReddy, you need another flange to bolt the Synapse to the GReddy flange.

[sleeper3]

You need two if you get the GReddy style flange. If you get the HKS, I assume its just the same as the HKS kit for our car, with a snap ring. If you get the GReddy, you need another flange to bolt the Synapse to the GReddy flange.

there you have it folks!

[hilmar2k]

what kind of adapter would I need with that?

According to an email I received from Synapse, they are about a week away from the direct flange adapter for the MS3. I will be waiting for that to come out before I by the Synapse BOV. I am actually pretty excited to try this out, as I am very intrigued by the way it operates.

[newwildchild]

look like that is correct, there also waiting for the flange on the mazdaspeed6 group buy. price list for the group buy

The discounted pricing i got is as follows.
0-9 units $197.10
10-19 units $187.10
20+ units $177.10
Flange is fixed at $22.49
Shipping is $14 in lower 48 states

from the mazda6forum group buy

So far i called the company and they say the main batch is still stuck. That is why i am holding off on doing a full GB until everything is set. I do not want to do it now and find out i am stuck with no flange. Other website might say they have but i really have no idea. I just talk directly with the company yesterday and they are still waiting eagerly for the flanges.
Hope it hits the 20+ target.

So far the list is as follows.

1. kurfgator-No Flange
2. JumpingJackson - Speed 6 Flange
3. aviator79
4. Chucky12
5. MPSdriver - Speed 6 Flange
6. mdduff
7. sgon
8. fireboy
9. Qbert
10 Fountainclimber
11. ynitro56
12. knyghtryda
13. 6derek6
14. MZBuckeye - Speed 6 flange

[driver311]

I am pretty sure I remember him saying he has a leaky stock valve. that was my original point. if you have a leaky valve, it's going to help. I'm not 100% sure that he compared the new one to the stocker, cause I know he had a forge before this one, but I am assuming that is the case. I don't doubt his results. he's been 100% honest every time I've delt with him.

i compared it to stock. I sold the forge. the forge held boost better but not as good as this. The forge still fell off hard by 6k. this one holds it much better.

Ps. My results are exactly as I posted them. The car is way faster with it on. I have no gain by posting these results. No one pays me to do this. Pg sent me a unit to test and these are my results. The thing works thats all I know. LOL

[MADTIG]

Of course you don't have to post or do anything you don't want to do, but It's a forum thing. When people make a claim on a thread, what usually happens next? "proof? proof?". Just saying...

btw, the 2-3psi sounds more realistic now. Wasn't sure if the synchronic was compared to the forge or leaky stocky. Glad that's confirmed.

[sleeper3]

check this out: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIAVLG2nh_U)

[dread]

driver how does the bov sound in recirc. I heard one sound clip and it sounded stock which is exactly what I am looking for.

[driver311]

Similar to stock but a touch louder. Its perfect for me. You can definately hear it outside though. Just not 10 cars away. LOL

ps. Again the best part is how good it holds boost to 6k. 3psi atleast at 6k. Thats a big difference. Ill dyno like I said when i get time. Mx'ing is taking up all my spare time.

[dread]

Is there any flutter or anything like the forge and is it audible when you shift at any rpm or just when the engine is under high load. I really don't want a loud BOV. I can't understand the VTA bs. The car runs worse and you look like an asshole everytime you shift. No offense to anyone who is into to this, but I like having a sleeper.

[Craighjr]

Is there any flutter or anything like the forge and is it audible when you shift at any rpm or just when the engine is under high load. I really don't want a loud BOV. I can't understand the VTA bs. The car runs worse and you look like an asshole everytime you shift. No offense to anyone who is into to this, but I like having a sleeper.

At high boost it has that multiple sneeze sound still It sounds nice and is mellow at low boost. These impressions are on my car in VTA. Dread do you have a Standback running VTA? The car used to run fine with a HKS. The Synapse member on Mazdaspeed Forum dot org did admit the valve isn't meant to run in VTA on a MAF application. the anti-stall kit doesn't work that great in my opinion. I didn't know this before hand so I tried it. I am switching back to recirc if I can make everything fit. If not I am dumping this valve to go back to my HKS.

[dread]

I don't have a standback or BOV

[sleeper3]

At high boost it has that multiple sneeze sound still It sounds nice and is mellow at low boost. These impressions are on my car in VTA. Dread do you have a Standback running VTA? The car used to run fine with a HKS. The Synapse member on Mazdaspeed Forum dot org did admit the valve isn't meant to run in VTA on a MAF application. the anti-stall kit doesn't work that great in my opinion. I didn't know this before hand so I tried it. I am switching back to recirc if I can make everything fit. If not I am dumping this valve to go back to my HKS.

I'll buy it off of ya.

[PLM_Man]

At high boost it has that multiple sneeze sound still It sounds nice and is mellow at low boost. These impressions are on my car in VTA. Dread do you have a Standback running VTA? The car used to run fine with a HKS. The Synapse member on Mazdaspeed Forum dot org did admit the valve isn't meant to run in VTA on a MAF application. the anti-stall kit doesn't work that great in my opinion. I didn't know this before hand so I tried it. I am switching back to recirc if I can make everything fit. If not I am dumping this valve to go back to my HKS.

Fitment question for you Craig: how close is the bpv/bov mounting location/angle on your fmic compared to the stock mounting location? I'm curious to see if the Synapse will fit set-up for recirc along with a COBB SRI and stock IC. With the SRI and a stock IC, I had trouble getting the stock recirc hose around this particular intake charge hose when attempting to run a HKS SSQV no matter how I turned the stock hose. It just kinked way too much. I think the only option I had was to piece my own recirc hose together. Also, any chance the Synapse will include a recirc hose for MS3's or is the stock one to be re-used?

[hilmar2k]

Fitment question for you Craig: how close is the bpv/bov mounting location/angle on your fmic compared to the stock mounting location? I'm curious to see if the Synapse will fit set-up for recirc along with a COBB SRI and stock IC. With the SRI and a stock IC, I had trouble getting the stock recirc hose around this particular intake charge hose when attempting to run a HKS SSQV no matter how I turned the stock hose. It just kinked way too much. I think the only option I had was to piece my own recirc hose together. Also, any chance the Synapse will include a recirc hose for MS3's or is the stock one to be re-used?

According to Synapse, you re-use the stock recirc hose, but need to cut an inch off of it. Looks like it will fit with the stock IC and a Cobb SRI.

[dread]

why would you need to cut it? I don't want to cut my recirc hose, I want to be able to go back to stock.

[hilmar2k]

why would you need to cut it? I don't want to cut my recirc hose, I want to be able to go back to stock.

Because it's too long if you don't cut it.

[Craighjr]

The BOV isn't for sale yet Sleeper. The BOV is huge and does present some weird fitment issues PLM. The Cobb on my car fits great with the BOV, the BOV is sooo close to the hood, but I am mounting it on a FMIC.

[daonly1around]

ok, so what do i need to use this when i get my first couple mods, only thing under the hood for me starting off is the cobb intake, and upgrade mount, and either the forge unit, the bolt on HKS, or this if this will work with my my setup

[hilmar2k]

ok, so what do i need to use this when i get my first couple mods, only thing under the hood for me starting off is the cobb intake, and upgrade mount, and either the forge unit, the bolt on HKS, or this if this will work with my my setup

This will work with any setup, from completely stock to seriously upgraded. How much of a performance upgrade you will see at a stock or near stock level will depend on how much, if any, your stock BPV leaks. Either way, with how fast this valves seems to react, I suspect you will notice a difference even if your stocker doesn't leak at all. Nowhere near 28 hp, but a difference nonetheless.

[mcb]

i still dont see adapter flange on their website :( I'll wait till its avaliable to order mine.

[dread]

i still dont see adapter flange on their website :( I'll wait till its avaliable to order mine.

Yeah where the fuck is the adapter. It sounds like the valve barely fits under the hood, so I would like a proper adapter.

[PLM_Man]

ok, so what do i need to use this when i get my first couple mods, only thing under the hood for me starting off is the cobb intake, and upgrade mount, and either the forge unit, the bolt on HKS, or this if this will work with my my setup

I've posted these pics in another thread, but here is what the recirc tube looks like when attempting to install the HKS bolt on with the COBB SRI. The hoses were much too restricted due to kinking in my opinion no matter how I rotated the stock hose. You could see it pulling on the intake. I think you'd need to look for another piece of hose with a descent bend to it in order to get underneath the intake with this particular combo.

[staples187]

I've posted these pics in another thread, but here is what the recirc tube looks like when attempting to install the HKS bolt on with the COBB SRI. The hoses were much too restricted due to kinking in my opinion no matter how I rotated the stock hose. You could see it pulling on the intake. I think you'd need to look for another piece of hose with a descent bend to it in order to get underneath the intake with this particular combo.

Have you tried rotating your recirc tube? That's what I had to do with my Turbosmart. I'm weary with this set up because I don't want to cut my recirc tube and be screwed because it rubs on the cold air intake or any intake for that matter.

[PLM_Man]

Have you tried rotating your recirc tube? That's what I had to do with my Turbosmart. I'm weary with this set up because I don't want to cut my recirc tube and be screwed because it rubs on the cold air intake or any intake for that matter.

"no matter how I rotated the stock hose." I made sure I said that because I knew a reply was coming :). I rotated it every-which way, but no luck. The intake charge hose from the COBB is just too close to the recirc outlet of the HKS at the mounting angle (to avoid hood clearance issues). Based on others experiences and pictures that I've found, the MS CAI and HKS SSQV fit together, and the install instructions for the HKS show it fitting with the stock box, so I assume that works too. The two hoses just collide, and the pics really look like an understatement. Try to picture (in your head) wrapping a recirc hose around the COBB hose. It basically flattened out the recirc hose completely. [/OFF TOPIC]

[AutoXRacer]

Have you tried ordering a universal recirculation kit? I know the local tuning shop sells them (Titan Motorsports) for both specific applications and universal ones... I was thinking about doing this with my HKS SSQV. I' anal and I like my installs perfect...the stock hose does not have the ideal bent and length...but it works.

I'm still looking for a solution/better fit.

[daonly1around]

i might go with the HKS and the cobb, and see what kinda hose i can find that will fit better

[BDL]

So whats the latest on this? Has anyone else installed this BOV? Impressions?

[montrealms3]

Mine should be arriving today, but I am not going to install it until the last week of April as I want to do some before and after dyno's . . . they should prove that it doesn't give any extra max hp but it may give us more boost in certain spots in the rev range (as per statements made by current owners of the synaps bpv), thus making the car faster . . . if it doesn't . . . oh well, at least I'll have a freaky looking BPV.

[dread]

I am having trouble understanding what the extra hoses are for. Will I be able to go back to stock after installing this and where the fuck is the third hose going.

[hilmar2k]

I am having trouble understanding what the extra hoses are for. Will I be able to go back to stock after installing this and where the fuck is the third hose going.

There are three nipples on the Synapse BOV. Two of them get fed by the boost/vacuum line that goes to the stock BPV (it just needs to be split with a "T"). The third is a high boost line that can be T'eed off the line from the wastegate. It should be pretty easy to go back to stock.

[dread]

So I need to splice two of the stock lines? Does the kit come with the t-hoses or do I need to do this myself? And do I need to cut the stock lines.

[BDL]

Doesn't look like it....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3256585752590281139&q=synapse+bov+what%27s+in+the+box&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

[dread]

So all I need to do is split the boost vaccuum line somehow and attach the recirc hose?

[hilmar2k]

So I need to splice two of the stock lines? Does the kit come with the t-hoses or do I need to do this myself? And do I need to cut the stock lines.

You don't need to splice into the vacuum/boost line that goes to the stock BPV, just add a T to the end. If you go back to stock, just remove the T and plug it back into the stock BPV. You do need to splice the high boost line from the wastegate. To go back to stock, you would need to splice it back together or replace the line.


So all I need to do is split the boost vaccuum line somehow and attach the recirc hose?

....and connect the high boost to the line from the wastegate.

[dread]

where am I supposed to get a T connector? I would like to see a walk through on this.

[hilmar2k]

where am I supposed to get a T connector? I would like to see a walk through on this.

I am not sure. I would guess that an auto parts store or Home Depot would have them.

[nypest]

Best place to get them is a NAPA or a local Speed Shop..... I tried HD and such and found nothing.. The size your looking for is just smaller then 1/4" ...1/4" worked for me but its a little tough getting the WGA hose on the 1/4" T end (used a little soap to help) also another little tip is to remove the WG hose all together and do the T fitting outside the car(rather then srtuggle slipping it on back there) MUCH more room it will save time trust me..

[sleeper3]

Mine should be arriving today, but I am not going to install it until the last week of April as I want to do some before and after dyno's . . . they should prove that it doesn't give any extra max hp but it may give us more boost in certain spots in the rev range (as per statements made by current owners of the synaps bpv), thus making the car faster . . . if it doesn't . . . oh well, at least I'll have a freaky looking BPV.

I saw a youtube vid saying that a stock car got well over 20 hp from this. that's max hp. it makes no sense to me whatsoever unless the valve you're replacing was leaking like crazy.

[montrealms3]

I saw a youtube vid saying that a stock car got well over 20 hp from this. that's max hp. it makes no sense to me whatsoever unless the valve you're replacing was leaking like crazy.

Yeah, I'm not expecting gains like that at all . . . but I am interested to see what, if anything, changes when I put it on. I will do some dashhawk logs with the old valve and some with the synapse and let you guys know the results.

Truthfully, I expect no difference . . . I got the valve because I wanted something solid that would work . . . if I see positive results, I will be happy . . .

[sleeper3]

I'm pretty happy with my forge.

[nypest]

there is a definate increase in response over the forge (i liked the forge as well nice and small and good performance)

[hilmar2k]

Yeah, I'm not expecting gains like that at all . . . but I am interested to see what, if anything, changes when I put it on. I will do some dashhawk logs with the old valve and some with the synapse and let you guys know the results.

Truthfully, I expect no difference . . . I got the valve because I wanted something solid that would work . . . if I see positive results, I will be happy . . .

That's my goal, too. I don't expect big gains, but the plastic stock BPV has got to go.

[hilmar2k]

there is a definate increase in response over the forge (i liked the forge as well nice and small and good performance)

So what is your overall opinion of the Synapse? Do you feel that it has added power, or just improved response?

[nypest]

So what is your overall opinion of the Synapse? Do you feel that it has added power, or just improved response?

Its a very different feeling then the forge or stock! It builds boost and doesent really drop off far in between shifts. It also holds the built boost longer in the RPM range...

[nypest]

The install is quite easy ....the speed 3 however has a much smaller space to work with. I noticed the speed 6 pictures had much more room, but it fits the 3.. If i had to say something about performance i would say that the Synapse valve gives stock driveability with a +1 on FORGE performance if that makes sense..

[sleeper3]

Its a very different feeling then the forge or stock! It builds boost and doesent really drop off far in between shifts. It also holds the built boost longer in the RPM range...

do you have datalogs showing this? I'd be very interested in seeing them!

[nypest]

i can have one for you tonight :)

[sleeper3]

cool. you will be logging the synapse and which? the stock or a different aftermarket one?

[nypest]

i already have Forge logs.....on my way home ill log boost with the Synaspe

[sleeper3]

coolness. this will show everyone a side by side comparison of what exactly is going on.

[BDL]

i can have one for you tonight :)

Looking forward to it!

[BDL]

The install is quite easy ....the speed 3 however has a much smaller space to work with. I noticed the speed 6 pictures had much more room, but it fits the 3.. If i had to say something about performance i would say that the Synapse valve gives stock driveability with a +1 on FORGE performance if that makes sense..

Also does anyone know......is this valve being shipped with the GReddy flange? As far as I can tell, thats the thing required for this installation (in addition to cutting .8 inches off the stock hose and reconnecting the vacuum lines)? The only mod on my car is an MS CAI.

[funkyman]

Does this synapse throw any CEL`s

[hilmar2k]

Also does anyone know......is this valve being shipped with the GReddy flange? As far as I can tell, thats the thing required for this installation (in addition to cutting .8 inches off the stock hose and reconnecting the vacuum lines)? The only mod on my car is an MS CAI.

Synapse is releasing a direct flange adapter for the Speed 3/6 in about a week. It is supposed to cost between $20-25.

[nypest]

Forge Bpv

128922

Synapse bov

128923

[nypest]

the synapse is a tight fit with the cobb SRI

128926

[hilmar2k]

the synapse is a tight fit with the cobb SRI

128926

Hard to tell from those pics, but does the recirc hose have any kinks in it? Is it so tight that it's an issue? What flange did you use?

[nypest]

Hard to tell from those pics, but does the recirc hose have any kinks in it? Is it so tight that it's an issue? What flange did you use?

if you angle it the way they want the cobb SRI is completely in the way of the recirc tube.... thats what you see in the pic.... But if you angle it a bit down you get a better fit ill take a pic of waht i mean in a min....... also you may not want to cut the recirc tube untill you know you need too (on the 3 with the cobb SRI only) by the angle you select i had to pick upsome new hose and i only cut .5" off....


OK pic is a little dark but it was at 5:30 am so ill get a better pic up latter but you can see the position you need with the cobb SRI

128952

The FMIC kits move the stock mounting flange location making it a little easier to get a good figment/adjustment **if you are using the stock mounting location and the Cobb SRI it takes some patients.....

Im supposed to call Synapse again today to send them pics and explain my concerns..

[montrealms3]

Can't get my Synapse on with the stock airbox . . . gotta get an intake of some kind . . . probably get an MS CAI . . . will update once I get it.

[sleeper3]

wow that definitely had more boost after the new valve... those runs were in the same gear? to me it looks like the difference between 4th and 6th on my car... just wanting to make sure we are on teh same page.

[nypest]

Can't get my Synapse on with the stock airbox . . . gotta get an intake of some kind . . . probably get an MS CAI . . . will update once I get it.

hmm it should fit with the stock box

[nypest]

wow that definitely had more boost after the new valve... those runs were in the same gear? to me it looks like the difference between 4th and 6th on my car... just wanting to make sure we are on teh same page.

Yup same page!! :D

IMO the best thing about the Synapse is the driveability(its not as harsh) and still holds the boost

[sleeper3]

what do you mean by harsh? it's hard to believe that a bypass valve can have this much of an effect on drivability. I mean, the sound is kind of starting to get old.

[aaronc7]

Looked at the 2 charts. how is the new valve holding any more boost? Unless I'm reading it wrong...it looks like both are holding 16ish psi @ 5k rpms and the forge drops off to about 10psi by 6200 or redline. The other log you only go up to about 5200 rpm so you can't even see what happens and of course it's not going to start dropping off by 5200

[nypest]

what do you mean by harsh? it's hard to believe that a bypass valve can have this much of an effect on drivability. I mean, the sound is kind of starting to get old.

If you have a FORGE you know what i menan by harsh its hard to explain with the forge you want to be in boost or not (im not bashing the forge i like it ) the synapse feels more like the stock valve(feels softer/lighter) but performs better and its quieter .......

better orientation pic with the Cobb SRI


128953

[nypest]

Looked at the 2 charts. how is the new valve holding any more boost? Unless I'm reading it wrong...it looks like both are holding 16ish psi @ 5k rpms and the forge drops off to about 10psi by 6200 or redline. The other log you only go up to about 5200 rpm so you can't even see what happens and of course it's not going to start dropping off by 5200

Its hard to wind out 3rd and 4th in traffic so yes the Rpm is a little off but if you look at the trend of the forge log you see the slant twards taper off... Again im not saying anyone should sell there Forge and buy a synapse at all I liked my forge alot.. Is the Boost drasticaly different ? NO Does the Synapse hold boost better in the upper RPM? YES

My fav thing about the Synapse is you get stock driveability with forge+1 performance **and its quiet

[nypest]

i will have a little more info after i tune it a little better

[aaronc7]

Can we a get a datalog of the new valve all the way to redline so we can compare it to the forge? I am curious as well. I have a forge on the way but I might not like it lol.

This is what im talking about just fyi...

[palerider]

Heres mine...just installed yesterday

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/palerider42/IMG_4177.jpg

[nypest]

Fmic Ftw

[nypest]

Can we a get a datalog of the new valve all the way to redline so we can compare it to the forge? I am curious as well. I have a forge on the way but I might not like it lol.

This is what im talking about just fyi...

Randy has a log of the synapse all the way to redline .....

[aaronc7]

WITH STOCK TURBO?!?!?! lol

if you could get us a datalog with you going to redline that would be awesome

[nypest]

Can we a get a datalog of the new valve all the way to redline so we can compare it to the forge? I am curious as well. I have a forge on the way but I might not like it lol.

This is what im talking about just fyi...

Edit yeah i need to get the synapse log with the same values ...ill se what i can do

[nypest]

WITH STOCK TURBO?!?!?! lol

if you could get us a datalog with you going to redline that would be awesome

ill do my best

[aaronc7]

Hate to disagree again but that is not correct, lol. Keep in mind the rpm range on the left...theres 1250 rpms between each tick

Look, I'm not trying to say it doesn't hold boost as well or anything like that. There's not enough data. You just said it did and would post datalogs showing it...you haven't. You need to have both valves, same gear all the way to redline to compare really.

I guess I'm just tired of people claiming 'amazing gains' with nothing really backing it up. I'm not saying you are, just based on the data you provided nothing can really be concluded (mainly that the new valve holds boost better).

Do a datalog of the new valve all the way to redline in the same gear as the forge and there will be no more discussion needed! lol

edit: OK cool thanks, look forward to seeing the results

[dread]

+1, the synapse BPV is just the flavor of the month.

[nypest]

Im definatly not claming amazing gains at all(i saw there video "whatever") ... Again the driveability to me makes this valve well worth it... Im still sticking with the Forge +1 lol

[nypest]

+1, the synapse BPV is just the flavor of the month.

i disagree...

it really is a good valve and its another option for ppl who may not like whats out there

[clos561]

i think its a great piece, gains are prolly a blown up but companies gota try to push products to make money...good piece, hopefully no leaks in the future.

[sleeper3]

if you find a car with a really leaky stock valve, replacing it with anything is going to make more power. if I were synapse, I would find one in this situation and claim it made the power. people hear these claims and eat them up.

[nypest]

if you find a car with a really leaky stock valve, replacing it with anything is going to make more power. if I were synapse, I would find one in this situation and claim it made the power. people hear these claims and eat them up.

lol so you saw the videos ?

[sleeper3]

yeah, that was completely ridiculous. 27 hp I think it was?

[nypest]

yeah, that was completely ridiculous. 27 hp I think it was?

yeah its def not like that at all !

[dread]

I don't get it, its just like when the cobb sri came out and everyone sold their intakes to get the new one. Its probably a good bov, but there is nothing that suggests its better than any that were available before. Yes the video is B.S. but right after it was posted on you tube, every mazda forum had several threads about the synapse BOV. Shows you what some bull shit dyno graphs can do for a product.

[BDL]

yeah its def not like that at all !

So for someone replacing their stock BPV (not replacing a Forge), would the performance gains justify the $250 (valve, shipping, flange)? I'm not as intersted in the noise it makes, or the look it provides under the hood. Rather the potential gains from holding boost better/longer etc.

The cost plus the ease of install makes it seem like a no-brainer if the above gains are realized, right?

Or is there another BOV I should consider, keeping in mind I'm not interested in sound or appearance.

I guess this is potentially a larger question, and could be more broadly a "bang for your buck" MOD question based on performace.

[nypest]

I don't get it, its just like when the cobb sri came out and everyone sold their intakes to get the new one. Its probably a good bov, but there is nothing that suggests its better than any that were available before. Yes the video is B.S. but right after it was posted on you tube, every mazda forum had several threads about the synapse BOV. Shows you what some bull shit dyno graphs can do for a product.

my point in all this is that.... If you like the performance of the FORGE but the want quietness of the stock set up, and feel of the stock set up this valve is a good choice..

[nypest]

So for someone replacing their stock BPV (not replacing a Forge), would the performance gains justify the $250 (valve, shipping, flange)? I'm not as intersted in the noise it makes, or the look it provides under the hood. Rather the potential gains from holding boost better/longer etc.

The cost plus the ease of install makes it seem like a no-brainer if the above gains are realized, right?

Or is there another BOV I should consider, keeping in mind I'm not interested in sound or appearance.

I guess this is potentially a larger question, and could be more broadly a "bang for your buck" MOD question based on performace.

If your looking for a moderate price and performance get a forge IMO (as long as you dont care about sound) you will be happy

[BDL]

If your looking for a moderate price and performance get a forge IMO (as long as you dont care about sound) you will be happy

If the Synapse is +1 on the Forge (from your experience), wouldn't I be better off with the Synapse? Is there a big price difference between the two? I'm not cheap, just want the best value, if that makes sense considering the product.

[nypest]

If the Synapse is +1 on the Forge (from your experience), wouldn't I be better off with the Synapse? Is there a big price difference between the two? I'm not cheap, just want the best value, if that makes sense considering the product.

Yes there is a big $ difference the synapse is about dubble :(...... the +1 is IMO i had the forge for a while and liked it still do if you are in a BOV/BPV market you cant go wrong with either, FORGE has a +1 on the fitment and style IMO...


Alot of people frown at the noise the Forge makes. iI didnt mind at all but it is nice to have a stock sounding bov again that performs just as good if not a little better then the Forge.....

***To people who have the Cobb SRI fitment is tight using that intake put that on the CON list ......

[SPEED305]

the forge sounds whack! thats my opinion.
im very big on value too, but with a good mix of performance and overall quality. i like the turbosmart, but it was too expensive imo. everyone and thier sister has HKS, Greddy is also old.
we'll see how it plays out. im very picky on how i have my things

[koston33]

what about a turbo xs bpv. Who has it, and what are your opinions on it. Install, noise, performance?

[dread]

Yes turbo xs seems to be good, but I keep reading reviews that say the quality sucks and I have listened to sound clips and it sounds pretty loud. I want a valve that sounds stock but works better.

[BDL]

Yes there is a big $ difference the synapse is about dubble :(...... the +1 is IMO i had the forge for a while and liked it still do if you are in a BOV/BPV market you cant go wrong with either, FORGE has a +1 on the fitment and style IMO...


Alot of people frown at the noise the Forge makes. iI didnt mind at all but it is nice to have a stock sounding bov again that performs just as good if not a little better then the Forge.....

***To people who have the Cobb SRI fitment is tight using that intake put that on the CON list ......

Sorry for my ignorance.....but what's "IMO"? So the Forge is a better fit (pressumably an easier install) and half the price ($159 on mazdaspeedstore.com) with very similar performance increases over stock. Thanks for your candor, perhaps I'll avoid the hype and try the Forge.

[BDL]

the forge sounds whack! thats my opinion.
im very big on value too, but with a good mix of performance and overall quality. i like the turbosmart, but it was too expensive imo. everyone and thier sister has HKS, Greddy is also old.
we'll see how it plays out. im very picky on how i have my things

Can you expand on "whack" (i.e. tinny, too loud, etc)? The sound clips I've heard sound similar to stock (with MS CAI), but the speakers in my office probably don't have quit the dynamic range to differentiate.

[Craighjr]

Forge sounds like the old Mario Bros game when you jump to hit your head on the box with the coins in it.

The Synapse is a PITA to install. I have it but am not a huge fan. It is barely better than anything else that doesn't leak. I wanted one for like a year now so I jumped on it. I was dissappointed as the valve can not function as a VTA valve on our cars (mine saw 10 afr's at cruise and 17 afr's under boost).

[Demi]

Forge sounds like the old Mario Bros game when you jump to hit your head on the box with the coins in it.


Sweet crap i gotta hear this! Does anyone have a good sound clip. Oh and IMO mean In My Opinion. IMHO just has Humble thrown in there. Took me a few minutes to get that the first time too. PITA threw me for a loop too. lol.

[BDL]

Forge sounds like the old Mario Bros game when you jump to hit your head on the box with the coins in it.

The Synapse is a PITA to install. I have it but am not a huge fan. It is barely better than anything else that doesn't leak. I wanted one for like a year now so I jumped on it. I was dissappointed as the valve can not function as a VTA valve on our cars (mine saw 10 afr's at cruise and 17 afr's under boost).

That is an unusual sound!! I'll check around for sound clips. Did you replace another bov/bpv with the synapse your running know, or was the synapse your first after market bov/bpv? Just wondering if you had something previous that you preferred to the synapse.

[Haxir]

Whats IS a BPV and it doesnt cause the jerking inbetween shifts from the system giving to much fuel because it thinks theres more pressure than there is? Or is this not the case? I'm noob to Boost, too much honda lol

[nypest]

ok best logs i can do for ya guys


12902

12902

[nypest]

Whats IS a BPV and it doesnt cause the jerking inbetween shifts from the system giving to much fuel because it thinks theres more pressure than there is? Or is this not the case? I'm noob to Boost, too much honda lol

BPV=By Pass Valve(recirc only)

[nypest]

Sorry for my ignorance.....but what's "IMO"? So the Forge is a better fit (pressumably an easier install) and half the price ($159 on mazdaspeedstore.com) with very similar performance increases over stock. Thanks for your candor, perhaps I'll avoid the hype and try the Forge.

Correct!

A LOT of people have a problem with the sound the forge makes thus shying away from it. I didn't particularly like the sound either but felt the performance was worth it. SO to me the Synapse is great im getting great performance and stock like sound and drive ability...

Synapse:
If you have the funds and don't mind an actual install vs. (hot swap) i recommend it...

P.S. DON'T BUY THIS THINKING ITS WILL GIVE YOU 20 MORE HP!!!!! its a great increase over the STOCK BPV but if you have a good valve already and like it the synapse wont impress you much more..

[sleeper3]

the forge valve is kind of annoying. if I had an extra 200 bucks int he bank that I didn't know what to do with, I'd get the synapse for the heck of it.

[nypest]

the forge valve is kind of annoying. if I had an extra 200 bucks int he bank that I didn't know what to do with, I'd get the synapse for the heck of it.

lol thats the spirit (boobs)

[AutoXRacer]

Sorry for my ignorance.....but what's "IMO"? So the Forge is a better fit (pressumably an easier install) and half the price ($159 on mazdaspeedstore.com) with very similar performance increases over stock. Thanks for your candor, perhaps I'll avoid the hype and try the Forge.

The Forge is known not to hold as much boost as the HKS or the Synapse valve due to their design; push vs. pull.

Forge is a great valve if you are on a tight budget...but the convenience of the HKS and synapse are well worth the extra $$$; no messing around with shims, springs, or adjustments.

Just my 0.02 cents...

[nypest]

The Forge is known not to hold as much boost as the HKS or the Synapse valve due to their design; push vs. pull.

Forge is a great valve if you are on a tight budget...but the convenience of the HKS and synapse are well worth the extra $$$; no messing around with shims, springs, or adjustments.

Just my 0.02 cents...

To be fair I did have to spend a few min tuning my Synapse to get the performance i was looking for ....

[AutoXRacer]

To be fair I did have to spend a few min tuning my Synapse to get the performance i was looking for ....

Hmm... OK then, my HKS was simply bolt-on and go... (lol2)

[nypest]

Hmm... OK then, my HKS was simply bolt-on and go... (lol2)

I hear thats a good valve!

The synapse is supposed to be a bolt and go too, but i didnt feel like it was as fast reacting as it was supposed to be so i took some pre-load(drivers sugestion) off and BIG difference it took like 3 min lol ....

Edit:

[BDL]

I hear thats a good valve!

The synapse is supposed to be a bolt and go too, but i didnt feel like it was as fast reacting as it was supposed to be so i took some pre-load off and BIG difference it took like 3 min lol ....

I really like the idea of a quick and easy install/un-install incase I want or need to go back to stock. I'd really rather not have to cut the .8 inches off the rec house for that reason. Anyone else have an opinion on the HKS vs. the Forge?

[BDL]

BTW....at a $30 price difference (essentially the same price as far as I'm concerned)........performace and ease of install would be the two most important factors.

[nypest]

BTW....at a $30 price difference (essentially the same price as far as I'm concerned)........performace and ease of install would be the two most important factors.

$30 between which 2

[nypest]

I really like the idea of a quick and easy install/un-install incase I want or need to go back to stock. I'd really rather not have to cut the .8 inches off the rec house for that reason. Anyone else have an opinion on the HKS vs. the Forge?

For the speed 3 in the stock flange location you do not need to trim the recirc tube(i know they say so but its works with out doing it) ...remember if you have the Cobb SRI you will need that .8 they tell you to trim..

[staples187]

For the speed 3 in the stock flange location you do not need to trim the recirc tube(i know they say so but its works with out doing it) ...remember if you have the Cobb SRI you will need that .8 they tell you to trim..

This is based on having a cold air intake? Also, do you have to rotate the recirc tube to make it fit?

[BDL]

$30 between which 2

Between the HKS and the Forge. BTW......did you experience driveability issues with the Forge?

[nypest]

This is based on having a cold air intake? Also, do you have to rotate the recirc tube to make it fit?

Their install is biased on the CAI I spoke with them 2x this week about fitment with the SRI I sent them like 10 pics.... What has to happen for the SRI users is you have the orientate the Synapse valve at the same angle as the stock to get the recirc tube to snake to the valve, what happens in the case of the Cobb SRI is that there coupler blocks the path that the recirc tube has to travel to get the recirc tube on the synapse recirc flange the "way" that they want you to angle the valve ..

Here is the way that Synapse wants you to orientate it

129036




This is the problem you run into!

129037








Here is the way the valve has to sit **IF your using the stock location(meaning you don't have a FMIC) to clear the Cobb SRI

129035


If you notice dirvers pics he has the FMIC which moves the mounting location :) plus the CAI

[nypest]

Between the HKS and the Forge. BTW......did you experience driveability issues with the Forge?

Nothing major ....With the forge IMO your either hard on boost or in vac it doesent like inbetween unless your running a soft spring(negating the upgrade) but that is what happends when you improve performance... Ill say again I liked the forge!

[koston33]

really want to get an opinion on the turbo xs seems like a good buy. I don't really understand the hybrid concept though? But can anyone enlighten me.

[AutoXRacer]

really want to get an opinion on the turbo xs seems like a good buy. I don't really understand the hybrid concept though? But can anyone enlighten me.

the hybrid recirculates (like stock) 50% of the blow off air and vents the other 50% to the atmosphere...

I hear you could still get drivability issues with hybrids...

[BDL]

really want to get an opinion on the turbo xs seems like a good buy. I don't really understand the hybrid concept though? But can anyone enlighten me.

Turbo XS also has a fully recir BPV designed as a stock replacement (so it claims).......$197

I'd consider that as an option......

[mcb]

Is there any fitment problem (like cutting the recirc hose) with CP-E CAI with synapse BOV?

[sleeper3]

Is there any fitment problem (like cutting the recirc hose) with CP-E CAI with synapse BOV?

the CPe works perfectly with the stock setup, so I would assume that if cutting is required with stock parts, it will be with the CPe intake.

[SPEED305]

so i just got it in the mail.
this thing does feel solid!!
quick question tho, I saw the stock bov, and it sure doesnt look like I can just take the old one off and put the new one. am I missing something?

[nypest]

the CPe works perfectly with the stock setup, so I would assume that if cutting is required with stock parts, it will be with the CPe intake.

If it were me i wouldnt even cut the recirc hose i would just go buy a peice of hose the same size couldnt be more then $4 and fit that instead ..... this way going back to stock is that much easyier

[nypest]

so i just got it in the mail.
this thing does feel solid!!
quick question tho, I saw the stock bov, and it sure doesnt look like I can just take the old one off and put the new one. am I missing something?

lol yeah its not a hot swap ...but its not hard

[SPEED305]

thats sucks! what happen to the simple plug and play!

[nypest]

Gotta do your HW man you want plug and play gotta go with the FORGE

[nypest]

thats sucks! what happen to the simple plug and play!

Its not a hard install at all

[hilmar2k]

Go back to page 8 in this thread for some explanations of what goes where. Look for my an nypest's posts.

[hilmar2k]

thats sucks! what happen to the simple plug and play!

This BOV can't be PNP due to the way it operates. What makes it unique makes in a different install. The whole idea behind the Synapse is that the traditional BOV/BPV is an ineffective design. Therefore, by that logic, any PNP valve will suffer the same way. If you bought this valve because of it's innovative design, then there is no way around the install process.

[nypest]

Honest is not THAT much wk to get it in unless you have the COBB SRI theny there is a little dancing

[sleeper3]

I agree 100% on the not cutting stock parts thing. anything I have to "ghetto mod" I like to have an easy replacement back to stock.

[Craighjr]

so i just got it in the mail.
this thing does feel solid!!
quick question tho, I saw the stock bov, and it sure doesnt look like I can just take the old one off and put the new one. am I missing something?

You should also have a 2 piece flange (seperate items) to convert it to the stock BOV flange. They you have to trim the ricirculate hose to make it fit.

[hilmar2k]

You should also have a 2 piece flange (seperate items) to convert it to the stock BOV flange. They you have to trim the ricirculate hose to make it fit.

According to Synapse, there will be a 1 piece flange available any day.

[nypest]

yup yup

[SPEED305]

This BOV can't be PNP due to the way it operates. What makes it unique makes in a different install. The whole idea behind the Synapse is that the traditional BOV/BPV is an ineffective design. Therefore, by that logic, any PNP valve will suffer the same way. If you bought this valve because of it's innovative design, then there is no way around the install process.

thats not what I understood when I was making my selection. it cleary states "Includes bolt on flanges and parts for Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6 bolt on application."(attn)
im not crying about the install, i'll do it, but i was misinformed or understood incorrectly.

[nypest]

Synapse just said there speed flange is avalable PN SB001.7A

[SPEED305]

Synapse just said there speed flange is avalable PN SB001.7A

yeah, just spoke with Protoge Garage, and they "did" send the flange out seperately.
it will bolt on and off with this flange.

[Captain KRM P5]

Synapse just said there speed flange is avalable PN SB001.7A

its not available to order this particular flange until next week. our suppliers won't have it til then at the earliest. the flanges we have sent out with the BOVs and parts kits will work and as speed305 now knows, we sent him the tracking number for his flange, and its all bolt on. lets not spread rumors here. his valve simply came faster.

[mcb]

Cant wait to get mine (headbang)

[nypest]

its not available to order this particular flange until next week. our suppliers won't have it til then at the earliest. the flanges we have sent out with the BOVs and parts kits will work and as speed305 now knows, we sent him the tracking number for his flange, and its all bolt on. lets not spread rumors here. his valve simply came faster.

no rumors ... i talked to synapse they told me its aval and i ordered it from there supplier in FL


Email from synapse

We're not setup at all to sell them. Besides, distributors cleaned us out.

Call these guys:

www.nipponpower.com

They'll have them in stock in a day or so

This was WED

Im using the HKS flange you sent me too im just relaying the message ken.

[Captain KRM P5]

thanks for the news my friend, i will be contacting my warehouse to see if we can get some of these!

[SPEED305]

i couldnt get it on today.
first, i had issues with getting the mazda flange and the flange provided by synapse, to fit with the clip provided. i couldnt squeeze it down enough to let the clip open back up to lock.
i think i still dont have it on there,
second, the recirc hose is not that difficult to get on the bov, but I couldnt angle it good enough to leave that hose without irregularity, and still have clearance with closing the hood. the 2 vacuum tubes rub the hood, and only in the movement between "latched" and "closed" is latched,
third, if they sell the BOV with 2 vacuum points, why dont they just send you the "Y" or "T" you will need to install?? I dont comprehend these business decisions!! they make you go fishing for a 1/4" for the stock vacuum, to 3/16 to the bov tubes.
Anyhow, I will continue tommorow, with more times on my hand.
I'll prob install the inlet tomm too

[nypest]

i told you about fitment with the cobb

[nypest]

you need a Good set of snap ring pliers for the snap ring 20 bucks @ HD

[Craighjr]

Use a bench mounted soft jaw vice to compress the o-ring in the between the 2 flange pieces. (bov not mounted on there when crushing)

[SPEED305]

you need a Good set of snap ring pliers for the snap ring 20 bucks @ HD

Use a bench mounted soft jaw vice to compress the o-ring in the between the 2 flange pieces. (bov not mounted on there when crushing)
how funny, i did the same thing at HD. those are the only ones to use.
i took both flanges to the store, did it there.(rockon)
however, i ran into fitment issues with the positioning. i couldnt get the recirc tube to fit comfortably without having the valves twin nipples clear the hood. yes, i can stretch and twist the tube to "make" it fit, but you see that it has too much stress, especially, when you try to position the valve the correct way. so I gave up. didnt even try it out. put it back to stock.
i would love to see some pics on how some people have it on there.
besides the forge, what other valve just slaps on?

[nypest]

here is the way the Synapse has to fit usning the COBB SRI the vac lines will clear the hood.

129035

[sleeper3]

here is the way the Synapse has to fit usning the COBB SRI the vac lines will clear the hood.

129035

that is UGLY

I'll stick with my forge

[nypest]

lol well the forge is sexy

[sleeper3]

I love the stock look of the forge valve.

[speed858]

I love the stock look of the forge valve.

I agree! If only it didn't make the coin sound.

[controlo]

i love my forge.

[patty AT forge]

Between the HKS and the Forge. BTW......

The HKS costs about $100 more than our valve.

[patty AT forge]

Hmm... OK then, my HKS was simply bolt-on and go... (lol2)

Absence of the ability to adjust the valve doesn't mean that the performance of the valve couldn't be improved if the adjustment were available. Cars don't come from the factory with user adjustable boost...

[AutoXRacer]

The HKS costs about $100 more than our valve.

And you don't have to mess with shims or springs with the HKS; you also have the option to run it in recirculation or VTA with no additional parts to buy. Also, the HKS holds more boost for future higher/bigger turbo applications and better response time than the traditional push type BPVs. The sound is also 1000X better!!!

Just my 0.02 cents...

Not trying to knock Forge...I think its an excellent product...its just there are other options out there. And seeing how everyone is continuously swapping springs and shims to find the perfect tune, its seems a little frustrating/annoying to own.

[controlo]

Absence of the ability to adjust the valve doesn't mean that the performance of the valve couldn't be improved if the adjustment were available. Cars don't come from the factory with user adjustable boost...

+1

patty: eventhough i love the sound of the forge as it is now, i'd still want to hear the revised version when it comes out.

what exactly are you going to do to change the sound? make the piston out of rubber? :)

[AutoXRacer]

Absence of the ability to adjust the valve doesn't mean that the performance of the valve couldn't be improved if the adjustment were available. Cars don't come from the factory with user adjustable boost...

HKS had adjustment capabilities in the past... Owners kept messing with adjustments that lead to failures of turbos and ideal valve settings.

As a result, HKS is now a direct bolt-on and the valve adjusts its self according to boost pressures...just regurgitating HKSs's info...

[patty AT forge]

The Forge is known not to hold as much boost as the HKS or the Synapse valve due to their design; push vs. pull...

Hmm. Well with the design of our valve the only difference in pressure between the top and bottom of the piston will be from pressure drop, this pressure differential is what opens the valve and said differential must be greater than the seat pressure of the spring in the valve for it to open. The cracking pressure of the yellow spring is around 8 psi if I remember correctly so as long as your intercooler doesn't have 8 psi of pressure drop our valve won't open with the softest spring that we include.

Variables: intercooler temp, ambient temp, coolant temp, mass-air, map, timing, throttle angle, solenoid duty cycle. Consider these for a moment. Now with a comparison made with only two data points, one for each valve in question, ALL OF THE ABOVE variables must be the same for the data to be conclusive.

[nypest]

I have both synapse and Forge the performance is very similar I noticed a small amount more boost in higher RPM... I say again the Forge is a great valve less install time more stock appearance all for Cheaper price..... sound is well not the best but looks like its being addresed

[patty AT forge]

And you don't have to mess with shims or springs with the HKS; you also have the option to run it in recirculation or VTA with no additional parts to buy. Also, the HKS holds more boost for future higher/bigger turbo applications and better response time than the traditional push type BPVs. The sound is also 1000X better!!!

Just my 0.02 cents...

Not trying to knock Forge...I think its an excellent product...its just there are other options out there. And seeing how everyone is continuously swapping springs and shims to find the perfect tune, its seems a little frustrating/annoying to own.

Hold more boost? How so? Our valves are held shut by boost, their valve is held shut by boost. As boost raises so does the clamping force. On ours and theirs.

Sounds like marketing to me... lower production costs and come up with some type to convince people that the product is just as good.

I'm all for options and alternatives, we ARE an alternative in just about every market. HKS and Greddy probably have more guys mopping the floors after they close than Forge employs. Synapse is probably similar in size to us, so I'm rooting for them along with us, underdogs need to stick together. I just like information to be accurate and fair.

[sleeper3]

+1

patty: eventhough i love the sound of the forge as it is now, i'd still want to hear the revised version when it comes out.

what exactly are you going to do to change the sound? make the piston out of rubber? :)

I think that the sound is a whistle rather than a ping. like when you blow across the top of a coke bottle, except with a lot more pressure, and for a very short period of time. the shape of the piston is being changed I believe.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I did ask patty about it and she kind of agreed with me on this if I remember correctly.

[AutoXRacer]

Hold more boost? How so? Our valves are held shut by boost, their valve is held shut by boost. As boost raises so does the clamping force. On ours and theirs.

Again, I don't want to come off as trying to knock Forge in any way...

I'm just trying to get in depth info here; for myself and others. I don't understand how the push type valve is held closed by boost, since boost is pushing on the valve. Can you explain?

This is HKS's description of how their valves work, which led me to purchase one over the traditional push type valves (HKS diagram attached).

The HKS Super Sequential Blow-Off Valve (SSQV) is a dual stage pull-type relief valve. Unlike typical push type blow-off valves, the SSQV will not leak under any level of boost because the boost pressure in chamber "C" keeps the valve closed against its seat (Diagram 1). The SSQV releases excess boost when there is a pressure alteration in chambers "A & B", not by the rate of boost pressure or vacuum in the line. This ensures a quick valve response and complete closure during idle. Many competitors use a push-type blow-off valve design with a large valve to accommodate high boost / high horsepower applications. These large valves react slowly and require high pressure to open, and are not able to activate and prevent compressor surge at light-load conditions. On the other hand, smaller, fast reacting push-type valves do not discharge the airflow capacity required for high horsepower applications and tend to slowly open and leak as boost pressure overpowers the spring. For maximum performance, the HKS SSQV incorporates both a small primary valve for ultra quick activation, and a larger secondary valve for additional discharge capacity. The SSQV is engineered to initially open the small primary valve at light throttle and load conditions (Diagram 2), then sequentially opens the secondary valve for additional relief capacity under high boost and load conditions (Diagram 3).

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/Milkywayman22/Mazdaspeed%203/ssqv-diagrams-1-3.gif

[patty AT forge]

That is the theory... We use the same pistons in the 007 and if you reverse them they make the same sound.

[sleeper3]

it's all about the difference in surface area that is being acted upon by the air pressures (even though you can tell this is the case by the drawing). I am going to go out on a limb and assume that the boundary between chambers a and b has MUCH more surface area than the boundary between c and the atmosphere (or intake if you're in recirc). when you're in boost, A and C are pressurized thus holding the valve shut with boost (the spring is acting on it too, but is a non issue at this point), exactly as patty said. if you look at the diagram, this is obvious. when you let off of the gas, chamber A is in vacuum, which opens the valve (since the surface area being effected is greater than that being effected in chamber C (which is still in boost, not vacuum).

to sum up, the pull comes into play when the valve is opening. boost is PUSHING this valve closed. vacuum is PULLING the valve open.

I'd like to see these diagrams of the forge valve too. I think it would shed some light on how it works (at least for me). then again, I am a physics dork and love analyzing stuff like this and making sense of it in my head.

[patty AT forge]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

Its the pressure differential between A and B that opens the valve not A and C. My guess is there is a bleed-hole in chamber C to allow chamber B to pressurize.

The spring IS an issue as it keeps the main valve shut against pressure variations in chamber A and B. Take a look at the diagrams, the shaft mounted plunger is directly actuated upon by movement of the diaphragm that separates chambers A and B and when it is open boost will escape the valve. So ultimately the valve is subject to the same forces as any other. A deviation in pressure seen on that diaphragm due to pressure loss will be the same as a in a "push" style valve. If it is great enough to overcome spring tension the main plunger will open, pressure will drop in chambers C and B, once pressure in chamber B drops low enough the spring will close the valve. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The only part that will remain closed is the secondary plunger as it is free-floating and pressed shut by boost pressure.

And looking at it its impossible for charge-pipe pressure alone to close the valve, no amount of pressure against the back of the secondary valve will keep the main valve closed if the pressure differential between chambers A and B are greater then the spring pressure. So the claim that "Unlike typical push type blow-off valves, the SSQV will not leak under any level of boost because the boost pressure in chamber "C" keeps the valve closed against its seat" is false. What am I missing? I must not be taking something into account.

I can take the spring out of one of our valves and pressurize it beyond the limits of our gauge and it won't leak. Staying closed against some bogeyman of enormous pressure is nothing but marketing. Staying closed against modest pressure variations and opening during large variations is what makes a valve that works.


it's all about the difference in surface area that is being acted upon by the air pressures (even though you can tell this is the case by the drawing). I am going to go out on a limb and assume that the boundary between chambers a and b has MUCH more surface area than the boundary between c and the atmosphere (or intake if you're in recirc). when you're in boost, A and C are pressurized thus holding the valve shut with boost (the spring is acting on it too, but is a non issue at this point), exactly as patty said. if you look at the diagram, this is obvious. when you let off of the gas, chamber A is in vacuum, which opens the valve (since the surface area being effected is greater than that being effected in chamber C (which is still in boost, not vacuum).

to sum up, the pull comes into play when the valve is opening. boost is PUSHING this valve closed. vacuum is PULLING the valve open.

I'd like to see these diagrams of the forge valve too. I think it would shed some light on how it works (at least for me). then again, I am a physics dork and love analyzing stuff like this and making sense of it in my head.

[sleeper3]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

Its the pressure differential between A and B that opens the valve not A and C. My guess is there is a bleed-hole in chamber C to allow chamber B to pressurize.

The spring IS an issue as it keeps the main valve shut against pressure variations in chamber A and B. Take a look at the diagrams, the shaft mounted plunger is directly actuated upon by movement of the diaphragm that separates chambers A and B and when it is open boost will escape the valve. So ultimately the valve is subject to the same forces as any other. A deviation in pressure seen on that diaphragm due to pressure loss will be the same as a in a "push" style valve. If it is great enough to overcome spring tension the main plunger will open, pressure will drop in chambers C and B, once pressure in chamber B drops low enough the spring will close the valve. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The only part that will remain closed is the secondary plunger as it is free-floating and pressed shut by boost pressure.

And looking at it its impossible for charge-pipe pressure alone to close the valve, no amount of pressure against the back of the secondary valve will keep the main valve closed if the pressure differential between chambers A and B are greater then the spring pressure. So the claim that "Unlike typical push type blow-off valves, the SSQV will not leak under any level of boost because the boost pressure in chamber "C" keeps the valve closed against its seat" is false. What am I missing? I must not be taking something into account.

I can take the spring out of one of our valves and pressurize it beyond the limits of our gauge and it won't leak. Staying closed against some bogeyman of enormous pressure is nothing but marketing. Staying closed against modest pressure variations and opening during large variations is what makes a valve that works.

I was assuming that B and C chambers were not connected for 2 reasons. #1 is that they are both named and if they were parts of the same chamber, I don't know why they would do this. #2 is that in drawing number 1, they are not shaded the same color. to me, this indicates a pressure differential. I am assuming that chamber B is either atmospheric pressure, and open, or sealed and at some pressure which makes the valve function as intended.

Also, I never said that boost in chamber C would ever close the valve. I said that it would help HOLD it closed though, since it is added pressure behind a sealed valve which opens AGAINST the force applied to it when C is pressurized.


now that I'm looking at the diagram again, I am also not getting it. it seems to me that figure 1 would be the picture under boost, 2 would be at an idle, and 3 would be when the valve is open and releasing. I don't understand.

[patty AT forge]

I'm not saying the you claimed pressure in chamber C would close the valve but that is the implication from their marketing.

Everything you mentioned in the first paragraph I though of but they need to be connected in some way. Sealed with pressure is unlikely for assembly and warranty reasons. Open to atmosphere wouldn't work 'cuz it would make this claim impossible "The SSQV is engineered to initially open the small primary valve at light throttle and load conditions ". If the chamber were open to atmosphere any pressure in chamber A would keep the valve shut, and it would stay shut even with vacuum due to the spring unless the effective diaphragm area in chambers A and B are drastically different.

Picture 1 is high boost, 2 is low boost venting, 3 is high boost venting.


I was assuming that B and C chambers were not connected for 2 reasons. #1 is that they are both named and if they were parts of the same chamber, I don't know why they would do this. #2 is that in drawing number 1, they are not shaded the same color. to me, this indicates a pressure differential. I am assuming that chamber B is either atmospheric pressure, and open, or sealed and at some pressure which makes the valve function as intended.

Also, I never said that boost in chamber C would ever close the valve. I said that it would help HOLD it closed though, since it is added pressure behind a sealed valve which opens AGAINST the force applied to it when C is pressurized.


now that I'm looking at the diagram again, I am also not getting it. it seems to me that figure 1 would be the picture under boost, 2 would be at an idle, and 3 would be when the valve is open and releasing. I don't understand.

[sleeper3]

I'm not saying the you claimed pressure in chamber C would close the valve but that is the implication from their marketing.

Everything you mentioned in the first paragraph I though of but they need to be connected in some way. Sealed with pressure is unlikely for assembly and warranty reasons. Open to atmosphere wouldn't work 'cuz it would make this claim impossible "The SSQV is engineered to initially open the small primary valve at light throttle and load conditions ". If the chamber were open to atmosphere any pressure in chamber A would keep the valve shut, and it would stay shut even with vacuum due to the spring unless the effective diaphragm area in chambers A and B are drastically different.

Picture 1 is high boost, 2 is low boost venting, 3 is high boost venting.

I thought the same thing when it came to warranty and the sealed chamber... plus any movement of the diaphragm would DRASTICALLY change pressure in a sealed chamber...

ok looking at it again I think I see what they are doing...

B & C are most likely joined with a small opening... that way, air bleeds from C into B, effecting pressure more slowly rather than all at once. that gives the oportunity for a staged response with the dual valves... it's starting to make sense to me a little, although their claim of not venting at idle still doesn't click.

is that what you're seeing?

[patty AT forge]

Hmmm. Maybe chambers A and B are tied together by a small orifice. So when A is suddenly in vacuum A is still pressurized to open the valve but then it bleeds down and as they equalize the valve closes. Which would allow it to close at idle...

[sleeper3]

Hmmm. Maybe chambers A and B are tied together by a small orifice. So when A is suddenly in vacuum A is still pressurized to open the valve but then it bleeds down and as they equalize the valve closes. Which would allow it to close at idle...

interesting. there definitely (at least to me it seems like it would have to be there) has to be some sort of bleed effect going on to open a dual staged valve. I didn't even think about an opening between A and B. that's interesting.


our model now, if under boost, is held closed by the spring tension though I think. not boost (excepting the small amount of pressure exerted on the valve in chamber C). the diaphragm is not acting to hold it shut. is that how it works? that would mean that pressure is used to open the valve, and the spring is used to shut it. I'm still kind of new at how all of this works.

[patty AT forge]

our model now, if under boost, is held closed by the spring tension though I think. not boost (excepting the small amount of pressure exerted on the valve in chamber C). the diaphragm is not acting to hold it shut. is that how it works? that would mean that pressure is used to open the valve, and the spring is used to shut it. I'm still kind of new at how all of this works.

The majority of clamping pressure will come from boost pressure in chamber A. Pressure in C only serves to close the secondary portion of the valve. The spring just shuts it during variation in pressure and at idle. Pressure AND vacuum open the valve.

...that is if I'm deciphering the diagrams correctly.

[AutoXRacer]

Here is another diagram that is some what better represented.

From my personal understanding:

-Diagram 1 is showing how boost conditions seal the primary and secondary valve closed; the concept of pull vs. push.

-Diagram 2 illustrates how low boost/light throttle/load is released through the primary valve at quick actuations by pressure delta between chambers A and B; A and B are sealed chambers from each other.

-Diagram 3 demonstrates the max pressure delta between A and B, the primary valve pulling the secondary valve open for max discharge.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f19/Milkywayman22/Mazdaspeed%203/HKSSSQV.jpg

Again, just to make sure... I am just trying to understand; I am not trying to say one is ultimately better than the other.
All am want to convey is why I chose one over the other... And why I personally feel preference over the other with the info that is currently available.

[sleeper3]

this still doesn't explain what the pressure in chamber B is dependent upon.

also I noticed something interesting: when the valves are fully open, chamber A is sealed in a vacuum state. I wonder why they did this. maybe it's another indicator that A and B are linked with a small bleed hole.