Forget the Colbalt SS

[bbychvz]

At leave we're faster in a strait line and on a track then...
A $33k+ VW R32 (upbum)(humpleg)(headbang)(drive2)(butthump)
buwahahaha!!!
http://www.webridestv.com/showvideo.aspx?video=47434
And....discuss!

[bbychvz]

BTW the ending is retarded...Bring a modded MS3 to the pack & watch it distroy thier modded GTI

[Conso]

lol ya lets just put in intake on the 3 =P c who wins

[Not Jo3L]

those GTI rims are ugly

[kickniteasy]

the new gtis are just so ugly......bleh

[MS3077]

lol ya lets just put in intake on the 3 =P c who wins

+1

[P5w3kids]

Did they test the old Cobalt or the new one, with 260 horsepower?

[speedball3]

VW R32 is weaksauce... dsg only, soft suspension, blah. It surprised me when C&D thought the R32 was better than the STI in their 3-way comparo.

The real comparo would be 08 STI v. MS3. Then 08 STI v. lightly modded MS3. If you're gonna take on another "hot hatch" it might as well be the hottest one out there.

btw, the new Cobalt SS is a decent car... don't hate on it. Yeah, it won't be as successful as it could be since it needs a better look. But it sounds like the old USDM Focus SVT... a rare great sports compact car from a domestic car company. You don't have to buy one, but you should quietly root for it.... in hopes that it will spur your fav car to become better. At least that's what I think. Why dislike a car simply b/c it threatens yours (assuming u own a MS3)?

Oh and they didn't test a Cobalt SS at all. It was a MS3 v. R32.

[ericrapp]

All wheel drive comparison and front drive comparisons different animals yes

[Shaun]

VW R32 is weaksauce... dsg only, soft suspension, blah...


Don't sleep on the DSG. The DSG is actually pretty sweet... very sweet.. lightning quick upshifts (quicker than a typical manual tranny), perfectly rev matched downshifts... IIRC it is not an automatic tranny, but a manual with automated shifting and clutch. I have driven a VW R32 and an Audi A3 with the DSG and was very impressed.

Other than that, the R32 is weaksauce (from a performance standpoint... comparatively speaking).

[enganear]

Don't sleep on the DSG. The DSG is actually pretty sweet... very sweet.. lightning quick upshifts (quicker than a typical manual tranny), perfectly rev matched downshifts... IIRC it is not an automatic tranny, but a manual with automated shifting and clutch. I have driven a VW R32 and an Audi A3 with the DSG and was very impressed.

Other than that, the R32 is weaksauce (from a performance standpoint... comparatively speaking).

+1 on the DSG, and I was impressed with the R32 suspension as well, much better damping than a stock MS3. The sound of that six is also very stirring. The tranny has no torque converter, just two computer controlled clutches. If the difference had only been a few thousand, I would be posting on a different forum....
-enganear

[MS3077]

+1 on the DSG, and I was impressed with the R32 suspension as well, much better damping than a stock MS3. The sound of that six is also very stirring. The tranny has no torque converter, just two computer controlled clutches. If the difference had only been a few thousand, I would be posting on a different forum....
-enganear


lol! Well said

[08cosmic3]

"For not too much more money" over the $32,000 it already cost. How much more is not too much more money? My guess is an adiitional $3,000 worth of mods. So, it takes VW and a tuner $35,000 to put 4/10ths of a second on my $21,000 Speed 3. Take my Speed 3, spend $3000 for upgrades, pocket $11,000 and wup that Vdub.

Scott.

[MS3077]

Mazdaspeed 3 ROCKS BALLZ end of story.

I'm so glad I bought this car :)

[bbychvz]

Mazdaspeed 3 ROCKS BALLZ end of story.

I'm so glad I bought this car :)
AMEN to that...I'm glad to see you guys happy about this post. I know you guys need to get over the Cobalt SS who cares(spank)

[jaxmazda5]

The R32 is a better car than a MS3..not faster and yes it costs more. but they shouldn't even be compared....and DSG is the shiz. might be the start of manuals becoming non-existant.

not trolling here. I drive a GTI and the wifey has a mazda 5. I love the MS3 and I drove a couple of them. nice ride no doubt. late

[numbnuts22715]

Not trying to stir up anything, just wondering why you think its so much better?
I would definitely prefer being able to shift gears the way I do in an ms3 over the dsg stuff, that's just my preference. I'm just wondering what you have to say.

[MicaSp33d]

i test drove the GTI before i bought the MS3 and all they had was the DSG. I had to admit, the DSG is a great system, the upshifts are fast and the downshifts are very smooth with rev matching. When your on a hill, you can feel the car still wanting to roll back and it automatically gives it a little gas to keep you from rolling. The only drawback in my opinion is that the paddles are coloum mounted so when you turn the wheel its a little harder to find the paddles. Overall a great car, but after i drove the MS3, it was clearly the more fun car to drive regardless of the shifter feel. I'm happy with my decision.

The evo X dual clutch system is proven to be faster than the evo X gsr 5 spd on a track, with that in mind if i were to get an evo x i think i would still go for the 5 spd.

[MS3077]

The R32 is a better car than a MS3..not faster and yes it costs more. but they shouldn't even be compared....and DSG is the shiz. might be the start of manuals becoming non-existant.

not trolling here. I drive a GTI and the wifey has a mazda 5. I love the MS3 and I drove a couple of them. nice ride no doubt. late


R32 is a better car than a MS3? Glad you think so, considering you own a GTI this doesn't surprise me a bit. Shouldn't be compared why? The R32 is like 9grand more!!! And still can't keep up the 22k Mazda. You are talking like the R32 is a superior car because it cost more and comes with a Sissy-matic (DSG) R32 in my opinion is an over-weight turd that is overpriced and there is no reason why it can't be compared with an MS3.

What are you going to compare it to? An EVO and STI flat out embarrass (spank) it even more so than a MS3 does. So I don't understand your argument...

As for manuals becoming none existent... That's going to be a fat chance in hell, true driving enthusiast know that there is no replacement for a true manual gear box. These DSG transmissions and what have yous take out a lot of skill that would otherwise be involved- this sir is gay (ghey)

[zim]

very gay

[wisniaPl]

2009 new rwd hyunday is comming 2liter turbo and 3.8 v6 preety interesting it will be under 20k http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/10/spy-shots-hyundais-rwd-coupe/
its not beautiful but I beat it will be selling really good

[jaxmazda5]

shifting doesn't make a penis bigger does it? Trust me, it took a lot for me to accept the DSG too and to you guys' point, i DO miss shifting!! it's not often but I do. The MS3 is faster than a GTI and an R32. I drove the dayum thing and was very impressed with the speed. I want one from time to time but not enough to make a bad financial decision. Guys-the R32 is more of a cult thing. I can't deny it's a little overpriced and all that but it's a great car and can be had for 30k which is more in the rpice range it should be...being able to shift through gears doesn't make you a better driver or any cooler.

let me repeat-I love the MS3-I would probably trade my GTI for an MS3. I've driven 2 of them. I sat in and admired both the white and the grays etc etc etc when I picked up our mazda 5.

The R32 is a better car than an MS3. that's all.

[detsilverms3]

apples and oranges my friends apples and oranges.

[MS3077]

shifting doesn't make a penis bigger does it? Trust me, it took a lot for me to accept the DSG too and to you guys' point, i DO miss shifting!! it's not often but I do. The MS3 is faster than a GTI and an R32. I drove the dayum thing and was very impressed with the speed. I want one from time to time but not enough to make a bad financial decision. Guys-the R32 is more of a cult thing. I can't deny it's a little overpriced and all that but it's a great car and can be had for 30k which is more in the rpice range it should be...being able to shift through gears doesn't make you a better driver or any cooler.

let me repeat-I love the MS3-I would probably trade my GTI for an MS3. I've driven 2 of them. I sat in and admired both the white and the grays etc etc etc when I picked up our mazda 5.

The R32 is a better car than an MS3. that's all.

To answer your question, shifting a manual transmission car has been scientifically proven to increase the size of the male genitalia. Not only this but it makes you more of a man in general because it shows you can "man" handle a vehicle.

The DSG type transmissions on the other hand, you just flick your fingers and it shifts not much skill involved there. I think I would get bored and feel less manly.

Yeah and I just love how you make statements to sound as if they're fact.

[LilZoom]

shifting doesn't make a penis bigger does it? Trust me, it took a lot for me to accept the DSG too and to you guys' point, i DO miss shifting!! it's not often but I do. The MS3 is faster than a GTI and an R32. I drove the dayum thing and was very impressed with the speed. I want one from time to time but not enough to make a bad financial decision. Guys-the R32 is more of a cult thing. I can't deny it's a little overpriced and all that but it's a great car and can be had for 30k which is more in the rpice range it should be...being able to shift through gears doesn't make you a better driver or any cooler.

let me repeat-I love the MS3-I would probably trade my GTI for an MS3. I've driven 2 of them. I sat in and admired both the white and the grays etc etc etc when I picked up our mazda 5.

The R32 is a better car than an MS3. that's all.

I am just wondering here, aside from you just pointing out all the things that make the MS3 a better car than the R32 why is it you can't back up the R32 being better than the MS3.

That whole post you pretty much just proved it is only better because of the fact that you prefer VW, maybe I missed it but not once did you say one thing that makes it actually a better buy.

I've been to Mazda and VW meets, and I would still take my Mazda over the VW, granted maybe if I had a R32 instead of the GTI but I really doubt I would go with another VW, they have nothing but problems and the check engine light coming on, I think for the bigger price tag shouldn't it be more reliable ?

As for shifting, when people pull up and your driving something that isn't stick, it isn't as much fun to drive but that just is my opinion.

[mk_slayr]

shifting doesn't make a penis bigger does it? Trust me, it took a lot for me to accept the DSG too and to you guys' point, i DO miss shifting!! it's not often but I do. The MS3 is faster than a GTI and an R32. I drove the dayum thing and was very impressed with the speed. I want one from time to time but not enough to make a bad financial decision. Guys-the R32 is more of a cult thing. I can't deny it's a little overpriced and all that but it's a great car and can be had for 30k which is more in the rpice range it should be...being able to shift through gears doesn't make you a better driver or any cooler.

let me repeat-I love the MS3-I would probably trade my GTI for an MS3. I've driven 2 of them. I sat in and admired both the white and the grays etc etc etc when I picked up our mazda 5.

The R32 is a better car than an MS3. that's all.

mk4 R32 > mk5 R32....

The Mk4 was the cult R32. It came with a six speed and required a bit of skill around the track and was much faster than the Gti. Isn't the new R32 slower than the 2.0t Gti? (R32 = 6.2, 0-60, Gti = 6.0, 0-60 right?)

I love the convenience excuse about the DSG. I'm sure there are a few of us that drive in traffic everyday. It really doesn't bother me at all. I would rather have my left leg go numb everyday than stop using it.

And yes being able to shift while driving does take more skill than driving a dsg and by extension makes you a better driver. Look down, 3 pedals is more than 2, hrmm. Up and Down vs 6 slots?

People said that powerglides would replace manuals years ago...

There is something intangible about the connection that comes with a manual when it starts to feel like an extension of your own arm. Try coming out of a tight hairpin with your throttle down, eyes on the road, there is nothing more satisfying than reaching down, knowing exactly where the shifter is and slamming it into the next gate like it's second nature.

Some of us can rev match without the aid of a computer...

Maybe I romanticize the manual and put it on a pedestal, but it is something I feel very strongly about. If you can't feel the difference between a DSG and a 6 speed then I can't explain it too you, and I feel sorry for you. You're missing out on something special.

I was close to buying a Fahrenheit Gli or Gti but I couldn't get over the DSG. Driving was boring, hollow.

Enzo once said that, "Not all Ferrari Owners are Ferrari Drivers,".

I like my 6-speed. I don't think I'm better than someone who prefers a DSG or that my penis is larger (it probably is anyway). But I hate it when people tell me that they know I will like something, People that think the only reason I don't love it is that I was too backwoods to have heard about it or too ignorant to appreciate it for what it is. I have acknowledge it with a nonchalant meh.

[CosmoMS3]

mk4 R32 > mk5 R32....

I would rather have my left leg go numb everyday than stop using it.



I feel the same way.

[numbnuts22715]

I agree... Still waiting on why an r32 is better.

ms3= faster in straight line, faster around a track,which in turn makes it more fun to drive), its cheaper, no stupid cel/oil lights constantly coming on. Im not sure what else im missing, but thats a whole lot of pros for the ms3 and 0 so far for the r32. I know it has awd but that simple thing alone doesnt make it better. Also, the DSG, it just isnt for a lot of driving enthusiasts.

[lasermp5]

"For not too much more money" over the $32,000 it already cost. How much more is not too much more money? My guess is an adiitional $3,000 worth of mods. So, it takes VW and a tuner $35,000 to put 4/10ths of a second on my $21,000 Speed 3. Take my Speed 3, spend $3000 for upgrades, pocket $11,000 and wup that Vdub.

Scott.

no... I'm pretty sure they're talking about the 2.0 FSI GTI in that aspect, and not the R32. The GTI would be more on par with the MS3 price-wise no doubt. Still slightly more expensive though.

[stockms3]

Well I like the way older GTIs look teh new one eh not so much ehehhehe

But coming to a mazda forum saying GTI IS BETTER without good arguments is like starting a war with russia without an army.

[funkyman]

They probably mean the build quality is better on the VW`s.I mean materials used.Obviously the VW being the 4th largest manufacturer with The Volkswagen Group (VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Bugatti & Lamborghini) comfortably maintained its lead as best selling car manufacturer in Europe.These guys tend to build better quality cars than their Japanese competitors.
One of the key aspects that make the r32 more expensive is its hi tech computer controlled tranny,same as the Evo X and Bmw 335 and M3`s.These cars are able to change gears with phenomenal quickness and without skipping a beat.They are very sophisticated which makes the car naturally more expensive to produce.Also most German cars use German parts like Bosch which adds to the cost of production.
It would be interesting to see and compare some data on the torional rigidity,but when you`re paying 35k you`d expect the car do a 0-60 under 6.0 seconds which the r32 struggles to do.It is however a nice looking car.

[jaxmazda5]

well said.

[tripledigits]

They probably mean the build quality is better on the VW`s.I mean materials used.Obviously the VW being the 4th largest manufacturer with The Volkswagen Group (VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Bugatti & Lamborghini) comfortably maintained its lead as best selling car manufacturer in Europe.These guys tend to build better quality cars than their Japanese competitors.
One of the key aspects that make the r32 more expensive is its hi tech computer controlled tranny,same as the Evo X and Bmw 335 and M3`s.These cars are able to change gears with phenomenal quickness and without skipping a beat.They are very sophisticated which makes the car naturally more expensive to produce.Also most German cars use German parts like Bosch which adds to the cost of production.
It would be interesting to see and compare some data on the torional rigidity,but when you`re paying 35k you`d expect the car do a 0-60 under 6.0 seconds which the r32 struggles to do.It is however a nice looking car.

Better build quality on the VW? I don't think so, and that's why I've bought my last VW. When there are aftermarket companies whose sole business is replacement electronics for VWs, what does that say? How is building an aluminum suspension arm with a steel ball joint, knowing it will need to be replaced every 40K, remotely related to build quality? Automatic tranny fluid with no change interval (lifetime fluid), when VW knows full well you'll have to replace your tranny due to fluid degradation. I now believe a co-worker of mine, who is from Germany. She said VWs are considered crap in Germany, and doesn't know why anybody would buy one. Too bad they feel good on the road..... (that was a compliment).

This was not meant to offend or put down anyone who owns a VW - I have owned a few myself.

[funkyman]

Aftermarket mods is not the topic here.Build quality from the factory.VW rabbit is one of the highest,most selling cars in Europe if not the highest.Engineering is higher,so are the grade of materials used like plastic injection moulding in the interiors and fitment closeness and compactness.If you abuse your car you will need to change everything,but if you are a driver who doesn`t go above 3000rpm too often and stays away from pot holes ,desert heat and sandy beaches you`ll be fine.

[Bochet]

I personally prefer the MS3 to the R32 but the R32 is a great car in it's own respect. The DSG is a killer transmission, I don't want one, but you definitely have to respect it for what it is. I'm stunned that VW didn't offer the 6MT with the R32, they have the same powertrain in the 3.2Q TT. Why not let people choose?

Moving on, the R has the best exhaust note this side of Italy. It truly sounds fantastic. It isn't the fastest car out there, but it surely isn't slow. Right now you can get a new one off the lot for right around $30K too.

VW did shoot themselves in the foot. A stock R32 is faster than a stock GTI, but throw a chip on the GTI and it'll be a driver's race. Granted, the R32 is still supreme on the track with it's better suspension, bigger brakes and AWD, but those looking for outright speed need not apply to the R. Many people in the market for a car like this only care about straight line speed, so the GTI, which is a great car in it's own right, gets the nod.

What VW needed to do was release an .:R36, with the 3.6 from the Passat tuned in the neighborhood of 300HP. Then we wouldn't be having these issues.

There are some things you can do to help with R32 speed. To start, their wheels (just the wheels) weigh 28 POUNDS EACH. You can cut 10lbs on each corner on an AWD car and it'll certainly move better. There are intakes and exhaust, which do what you'd expect on a NA motor.

Peep THIS, there is a turbo kit for the R32 that will make it crazy fast, something like 400AWHP. But buckle up, it costs $21K!!!!!

[VermZ06]

Better build quality on the VW? I don't think so, and that's why I've bought my last VW. When there are aftermarket companies whose sole business is replacement electronics for VWs, what does that say? How is building an aluminum suspension arm with a steel ball joint, knowing it will need to be replaced every 40K, remotely related to build quality? Automatic tranny fluid with no change interval (lifetime fluid), when VW knows full well you'll have to replace your tranny due to fluid degradation. I now believe a co-worker of mine, who is from Germany. She said VWs are considered crap in Germany, and doesn't know why anybody would buy one. Too bad they feel good on the road..... (that was a compliment).

This was not meant to offend or put down anyone who owns a VW - I have owned a few myself.


I agree with this. I owned a 2001 GTI VR6 and plastic pieces from the seat adjustment levers, VW badging, and even the window clips (which happened to me and made the windows fall down into the door with no way of getting them up in the middle of winter) all crapped out within 40K miles. Don't let the "quality" of these cars fool you as it's overhyped. Also parts/labor are very expensive compared to japanese/american makers. In terms of quality your better off with a kia rio or hyandai elantra...The engine was honestly the best part of the car in terms of craftmanshift and reliability.

[LilZoom]

I agree with this. I owned a 2001 GTI VR6 and plastic pieces from the seat adjustment levers, VW badging, and even the window clips (which happened to me and made the windows fall down into the door with no way of getting them up in the middle of winter) all crapped out within 40K miles. Don't let the "quality" of these cars fool you as it's overhyped. Also parts/labor are very expensive compared to japanese/american makers. In terms of quality your better off with a kia rio or hyandai elantra...The engine was honestly the best part of the car in terms of craftmanshift and reliability.

Off topic but did you have issues with it constantly needing to go to "workshop" , the check engine light hasn't turned off once since we bought it, and sometimes he has to re-start it while he is driving because it literally just shuts off !!!!!!!!

Our original engine was ok with 110 on it now we replaced it with one with 50, and it is running horrible.

I don't think they are better quality after all the issue I have seen this one, and his friends with newer ones have.

It is like other "high quality" cars that have gone to crap but haven't gotten enough bad public reviews yet. Again just my opinion.

[Bochet]

German Engineering: Why Use 1 Part When 7 Will Do?

[zim]

^^^^ definitely the truth