FS-DE Oil System

[Signature Sound]

...Regarding your oil loss situation, there are so many variables that without the car in our shop I really couldn't guess any further. I don't think any of the other forum members have experienced that type of problem, bu maybe I am wrong. I would do a search on this forum or place a thread to see if anyone else has had a similar situation.

I had a problem with oil loss when I started upgrading. I think I have it mostly taken care of. I changed my PCV valve to a Millenia "S", then routed it to a catch can, then back to the splitter. The hose that is supposed to go to the intake from the valve cover is another route for oil to get in there. I noticed a dramatic difference in coloration on my plugs since the changes. I am turbo'd now, but this was an issue even way back with NOS and Port/Polish head. I dont think the flimsy spring in there can handle the added pressure. Not sure of your set up, but maybe try that and let us know.

[Signature Sound]

Here is the system I am putting in when MP3 Racer gets the pump and regulator back to me. Might be overkill... lol

[MP3racer]

Here is the system I am putting in when MP3 Racer gets the pump and regulator back to me. Might be overkill... lol


Looks nice! (thumb)

Maybe some ebay shopping there??

Pump is "in process"!

[niky]

Forgot the PCV thing... will try it, too... but I'm probably going to get everything done together.

[magnumP5]

In my personal experience the Millenia S PCV valve didn't help at all - at least not on my turbocharged P5 at 10 psi. IIRC, the Millensia S had a supercharged Miller Cycle engine that ran at about 9 psi. I went back to the stock PCV valve and just put a heavy-duty check valve on the PCV line and noticed more of an improvement then. That still didn't save me from my current issue however. Still debating about the external PRV. I'm just afraid it would be overkill for what I'd ever be doing with the car.

[Signature Sound]

be careful of doing too much at once. sometimes its harder to see what is an improvement and what is hurting you. good luck with the set-up. Tom (MP3 Racer) is a huge help with all this.



Forgot the PCV thing... will try it, too... but I'm probably going to get everything done together.

[cityracer]

simple question, I know has been hashed over. I am close to doing a pump, so I need to get a couple of my confusions straight first. :)

My compression is good on all cylinders, reading 190ish across the board. I do have a couple of bad valve seals though. (soon to be replaced with newly built head) This causes a very small amount of oil burn at start up, and a lot of burn after oil changes from drain down. However oil consumption is pretty much non existent, going through maybe a half quart in over 4k miles... I do run an oil cooler, with remote zr1 filter, and remote 170 degree thermostat.

Problem is that since the start of this motor (from brand new about 2.5 years ago-with the oil cooler set up), I never have seen pressure beyond 50psi (only seen at cold initial start ups). Idle can drop as low as 10psi when warm, and after spirited runs I will only see 35psi at rpm.

If I was to have the pump service with the relief valve plugged, and not get the external pressure regulator from you. What would my pressure look like considering the over all system drop from the oil cooler set up? I figure I am seeing about a 25-30psi drop in pressure due to the increased system capacity. at least according to the mazda fs oil pressure specs anyway... I guess I am trying to ask what sort of pressure will this pump put out with out the relief system? Or does the relief system work at continously maintaining pressure regardless of the pumps engine speed output, where as the pump by itself can only output according to engine speed?

Lastly my zip is 61874. If you could pm me a price for a new pump, your rebuild service, and external pressure relief valve. I would like to just do a purchase from one place for this to make it easier...

Thank you, :)
Christopher

[Maxx Mazda]

I think with the relief valve plugged your pressure would go through the roof man.

[MP3racer]

simple question, I know has been hashed over. I am close to doing a pump, so I need to get a couple of my confusions straight first. :)

My compression is good on all cylinders, reading 190ish across the board. I do have a couple of bad valve seals though. (soon to be replaced with newly built head) This causes a very small amount of oil burn at start up, and a lot of burn after oil changes from drain down. However oil consumption is pretty much non existent, going through maybe a half quart in over 4k miles... I do run an oil cooler, with remote zr1 filter, and remote 170 degree thermostat.

Problem is that since the start of this motor (from brand new about 2.5 years ago-with the oil cooler set up), I never have seen pressure beyond 50psi (only seen at cold initial start ups). Idle can drop as low as 10psi when warm, and after spirited runs I will only see 35psi at rpm.

If I was to have the pump service with the relief valve plugged, and not get the external pressure regulator from you. What would my pressure look like considering the over all system drop from the oil cooler set up? I figure I am seeing about a 25-30psi drop in pressure due to the increased system capacity. at least according to the mazda fs oil pressure specs anyway... I guess I am trying to ask what sort of pressure will this pump put out with out the relief system? Or does the relief system work at continously maintaining pressure regardless of the pumps engine speed output, where as the pump by itself can only output according to engine speed?

Lastly my zip is 61874. If you could pm me a price for a new pump, your rebuild service, and external pressure relief valve. I would like to just do a purchase from one place for this to make it easier...

Thank you, :)
Christopher


Christopher,

Exactly as Maxx Mazda put it...your oil pressure would have no ability to limit and at cold temps and moderate revs would easily see over 100psi. This is enough to burst most over the counter oil filters. You need a means of regulating the oil pressure. The stock valve does a good job at doing that. The problem is that when it relieves the pressure the bypassed oil dumps right back into the pump rotor system and creates cavitation (bubbling). The bubbles don't allow for continued ability of the pump to work efficiently and the pressure drops significantly. That is why we render the OE valve inoperative and go with an external valve that dumps back into the pan.

The symptoms you speak of :

never have seen pressure beyond 50psi (only seen at cold initial start ups). Idle can drop as low as 10psi when warm, and after spirited runs I will only see 35psi at rpm.

are the exact symptoms we had with the race motors that caused several lost motors. Be Careful!!!

I'll try to get a price for you and PM you with it in the next few days.

Take Care,
Tom

[cityracer]

My car doesn't have the crank sensor. thought I should mention that while you are looking up the parts for me. I'll keep an eye out for that pm. :)
Thanks,
Christopher

[Signature Sound]

here are some photos of the regulator and braided lines for the system. i am running a setrab oil cooler, peterson washable oil filter and an "ebay special" spin on adapter. the adapter has been modified to allow better flow wth less area for hang up.

[Signature Sound]

here you see the bypassed new oil pump and the coated internals. tom records the specs BEFORE and AFTER coating to show how much closer to spec the pump is after treatment.

in my case before: rotor to tip = .006"
body clearance = .006"
side clearance = .002"

after coatings: rotor to tip = .004"
body clearance = .004"
side clearance = .001"

[boostdprotegelx]

hey tom, if you want, go ahead and pm me with some pricing on a msp motor'd pump system.. and tell me what i need to do to get it! thanks.

[MP3racer]

here are some photos of the regulator and braided lines for the system. i am running a setrab oil cooler, peterson washable oil filter and an "ebay special" spin on adapter. the adapter has been modified to allow better flow wth less area for hang up.


Signature Sound...Thanks for the photos!! (2thumbs)

How does the adapter plate look? I've never seen one from this company....

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

hey tom, if you want, go ahead and pm me with some pricing on a msp motor'd pump system.. and tell me what i need to do to get it! thanks.

I'll add my self to that PM thing please, i'm highly interested price and what i need... Thanks

[MP3racer]

I'll add my self to that PM thing please, i'm highly interested price and what i need... Thanks

Here is a copy of the first post that reviews the system, prices and what you need to get.....

Any further questions please PM me!!

Thanks,
Tom

FS-DE Oil System
01-02-09 Update: So you will not be required to read through all the posts the following is a synopsis:
The pricing is as follows:
$100 for blueprint service on the oil pump
$130 for external bypass valves (Sorry everyone, the company that makes the PRV had a slight price increase for 2009 so the price went from $125 to $130....I held them to the wall as much as possible and split the increase! I am able to keep the oil pump service at the 2008 price for now....)

If purchasing together I will include modifying the oil pump to work with an external bypass valve! You should be able to source your own sandwich plates, hoses, and bung for the MBSP or pan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3racer http://static.mazdas247.com/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3768102#post3768102)
The $100 covers:
1.receiving your pump
2.disassembling your pump
3.recording pre-coating specs
4.sending to Swain Tech
5.coating of parts at Swain Tech
6.receiving back from Swain Tech
7.recording post-coating specs
8.reassembly of your pump

Shipping cost back to you is determined by where you are located. You will receive with your pump a copy of the specs.
The current turn-around time is 3 weeks including the time at Swain Tech.

Oil pump part #:


Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFed http://static.mazdas247.com/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3794552#post3794552)
I do beleive it is this FS01-14-100N

Warning:


Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3racer http://static.mazdas247.com/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3824680#post3824680)
Please be advised!!!!!

Do not send dirty, greasy oil pumps for coating!!! (notcool)

From this time on if a pump is received that requires cleaning prior to disassembly there will be an additional $50 charge!!

Please understand, the coating company would not even accept a dirty pump much less try to coat it! When it comes to engine assembly the cleaner the parts and the surroundings the better the chance for long engine life!!


Thanks Crazee D !!!!!

Well due to the number of requests I see that the first information session will be on what we have learned about the FS-DE oiling system.

For those who are unaware, I wrote an article covering part of this subject in the latest Mazdasport Magazine. Here is a draft.

See below

As you probably already have determined, the oiling system in the FS-DE is marginally sufficient for a street car and desperately insufficient for a race car. One of the main problems is that with sustained rpms the placement of the pressure relief valve in the oil pump causes significant cavitation and further loss of oil pressure. Another major problem is the small size of the oil pan and the subsequent high likelyhood for the pick-up to become "uncovered". Finally, the last major problem is that the rods take their oil supply from the main bearings through pick-ups in the crank.

We have come up with a SYSTEM to help try to DEAL with these problems. Some of these problems are inherent in the design of the motor and would take high dollars to solve. I also stress a system, because simply adding our improved oil pump may help to a point but we have found the SYSTEM has given us much improved engine life (read bearing life)!

Of course, the heart of the sytem is our improved oil pump. Along with it is our externally adjustable oil pressure bypass, a gated increased volume oil pan, an engine block oil filter relocation adapter, and an external oil filter mount. As you can see, with this system you can adjust your oil pressure to the range you need it externally. This will allow you to compensate for several factors including the type and grade of oil you are using and the bearing clearance you are running (to a point).

Here is a pic of the system as installed on our race car.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/mazdaspeedprotege017-1.jpg

Inside the box is the external oil pressure adjuster

[SeR_Cyclops]

I looked back a few pages but didnt find any info, what im wanting to know is has anyone done a "How to" on this so members of the forum can see exactly what needs to be done?

[MP3racer]

I looked back a few pages but didnt find any info, what im wanting to know is has anyone done a "How to" on this so members of the forum can see exactly what needs to be done?

OK, here goes for a quick "how-to"

The overall system needs:
1) Doc B Racing improved oil pump
2) External PRV from Doc B Racing
3) Oil Filter block adapter plate (sourced by individual)
4) Remote Oil Filter housing (sourced by individual)
5) -10 fitting on oil pan or block girdle for bypass return (easily done with a weld on bung to the pan or girdle)
6) Various -10 AN fiitings and lines

Let's start at the block with the adapter plate where the oil filter normally goes. The one on the Doc B Racing motor here is labelled "IN" and "OUT". You will need a -10 AN line from the "OUT" to the external PRV.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/howto/oilsystem%20006.jpg

Here is a different view of a Doc B Racing motor. It is hard to tell but there are actually three -10 AN lines on the motor. One of the lines pictured is attached to the "OUT" from the previous photo that will be going to the external PRV (on the lower right side).

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/text3.jpg

Here is a photo of our engine bay without the motor for better photo access to the external PRV and remote oil filter. The previous mentioned -10 AN line will attach to the lower right fitting on the external PRV. Also, a -10 AN line should go from the lower left side of the external PRV to the "IN" on the remote filter housing. (On the Doc B Racing Mazdaspeed Protege we have a cooler mounted between the external PRV and the filter so the line in the photo from the lower left of the external PRV is going to the cooler. If you will be doing similar, a -10 AN line would run back from the oil cooler to the remote oil filter housing "IN" as previously mentioned.) From the "OUT" (red cap) on the remote filter housing a -10 AN line runs back to the block adapter marked "IN".

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/text2.jpg

A -10 AN bypass line is needed from the upper right fitting on the external PRV to either the oil pan or the block girdle. A "bung" can be welded onto a stock pan for this purpose. Just make sure it is as high as possible to prevent backflow in the line. A baffle on the inside of the pan over the welded bung is a good idea if you are going to be doing any "high g" turns. If you weld the bung into the block girdle this is not an issue since the oil level does not reach this point.

Here is a photo of a Doc B Racing oil pan with a bung welded on and a photo of the inside of the pan to show he baffle.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/oilpan%20004.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/oilpan%20001.jpg

Here is a photo of a -10 AN line going to the bung. It is actually the return line for the turbo but it is basically the same thing just on the other side of the pan (you get the idea...).

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/oilsystem%20002.jpg


Here is a closer view of the external PRV used in the Doc B Racing Mazdaspeed Protege. It is an earlier model of the current ones we have avialable but basically the same. The knob at the top is for adjusting the oil pressure. It should be dialed in once the system is installed on your particular vehicle. We have about 25-30 psi of oil pressure at 1100 rpm (race motor idle) and 70-80 psi at 6800 rpm (redline). You can set it at whatever you feel is appropriate.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/bypassvalve%20001.jpg


Any questions and/or comments fire away.

A block adapter and remote filter housing are available on ebay that a few forum members have used. I have NO connection with this company and have not physically seen any of their products. However, the photos look similar to the ones we have used. Others are available, just make sure to use parts that have good open flow to prevent restrictions.

[MP3racer]

If you look at Post #173 on page 12 of this thread Packerfan has some photos of this same system on his car. I believe the remote filter housing is the one available on ebay.

Also, Signature Sound has some photos of his system on the previous page that includes photos of the block adapter and remote filter housing.

[Wurf]

Is that A Z I see in the background, covered in boxes? Looks like it's race prepped with a cage and the whole works. 280z maybe?

[MP3racer]

Is that A Z I see in the background, covered in boxes? Looks like it's race prepped with a cage and the whole works. 280z maybe?


Good eye!! Yeah, it is our Vintage racing 240Z. Check out the "Doc B Racing history" thread in this forum for some other photos and history on the car....(drive2)

[Speed3.5]

Hey mat , I guess after reading couple of times I get the idea but instead you can write/draw something and name what goes where , easier to understand then showing pictures bc ppl would get confused.

[MP3racer]

Hey mat , I guess after reading couple of times I get the idea but instead you can write/draw something and name what goes where , easier to understand then showing pictures bc ppl would get confused.

Let me know where you think it is confusing and I will try to explain further. I'm not sure if I can make it any simpler with drawings...

[Speed3.5]

It will just be best to make a small drawing where everyone will understand the routing of oil lines etc. thats all.

[MP3racer]

It will just be best to make a small drawing where everyone will understand the routing of oil lines etc. thats all.


I'm guessing you wanting/needing a drawing is the engineer in you coming out?? (poke)

[StealthWyvern]

I'm guessing you wanting/needing a drawing is the engineer in you coming out?? (poke)
(cabpatch)
Be sure to include a bunch of pretty colors too! lol

[SeR_Cyclops]

dude dont use rose art crayons. they suck use crayola.

[magnumP5]

I thought the pictures were helpful (shrug) I am almost certainly going to do this with my next block and I plan on tapping the crank support for both oil fittings.

[Speed3.5]

I'm guessing you wanting/needing a drawing is the engineer in you coming out?? (poke)


Yup, graphs/draws help and make it easier to understand no matter where you are or what you do.

But really it will make it easier for others not to ask the same question over and over how this is run or is put together, just show the drawing and thats all.

[Maxx Mazda]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/Untitled.jpg

[SeR_Cyclops]

Beautiful!!!

[MP3racer]

Yes, definitely another way to look at it, especially if you would like to use a sandwich plate instead of a remote filter!!

[Maxx Mazda]

That's the route I'm going, so I thought I'd put it in there. :D

[MP3racer]

Yup, graphs/draws help and make it easier to understand no matter where you are or what you do.

But really it will make it easier for others not to ask the same question over and over how this is run or is put together, just show the drawing and thats all.


I hope the attached drawing helps....below is the accompanying description.

An oil filter adapter plate is screwed onto the block in place of an oil filter. It will have an in and out port for the oil flow. Attach an AN-10 line from the "OUT" port and attach the other end of this line to the external pressure regulator valve (Ex-PRV) flow circuit fitting. Attach another AN-10 line to the other flow circuit fitting on the Ex-PRV with the other end of this line attached to the 'IN" port on a remote filter housing. A third AN-10 line will attach at one end to the "OUT" port on the remote filter housing with its opposite end attached back at the "IN" port on the oil filter adapter plate. A final AN-10 line will be attached at one end to the bypass port on the Ex-PRV and its other end attached to the engine block girdle (via a bung welded to the OE girdle).

Hope this helps???(dunno)

[boostdprotegelx]

I hope the attached drawing helps....below is the accompanying description.

An oil filter adapter plate is screwed onto the block in place of an oil filter. It will have an in and out port for the oil flow. Attach an AN-10 line from the "OUT" port and attach the other end of this line to the external pressure regulator valve (Ex-PRV) flow circuit fitting. Attach another AN-10 line to the other flow circuit fitting on the Ex-PRV with the other end of this line attached to the 'IN" port on a remote filter housing. A third AN-10 line will attach at one end to the "OUT" port on the remote filter housing with its opposite end attached back at the "IN" port on the oil filter adapter plate. A final AN-10 line will be attached at one end to the bypass port on the Ex-PRV and its other end attached to the engine block girdle (via a bung welded to the OE girdle).

Hope this helps???(dunno)

actually it does help, quite a bit!

[Speed3.5]

I hope the attached drawing helps....below is the accompanying description.

An oil filter adapter plate is screwed onto the block in place of an oil filter. It will have an in and out port for the oil flow. Attach an AN-10 line from the "OUT" port and attach the other end of this line to the external pressure regulator valve (Ex-PRV) flow circuit fitting. Attach another AN-10 line to the other flow circuit fitting on the Ex-PRV with the other end of this line attached to the 'IN" port on a remote filter housing. A third AN-10 line will attach at one end to the "OUT" port on the remote filter housing with its opposite end attached back at the "IN" port on the oil filter adapter plate. A final AN-10 line will be attached at one end to the bypass port on the Ex-PRV and its other end attached to the engine block girdle (via a bung welded to the OE girdle).

Hope this helps???(dunno)


Question: can filter be installed before the the Ex-PRV so when Ex-PRV by-passes oil then clean oil goes back to the pan instead of unfiltered oil or it will mess with pressure/time respond ?

Girdle can be drill-n-tap instead of welding a bung, right ?

BTW - good drawing specially with the logo on top , pro. look (yes).

Every bit of info helps man (thumb)

[MP3racer]

Question: can filter be installed before the the Ex-PRV so when Ex-PRV by-passes oil then clean oil goes back to the pan instead of unfiltered oil or it will mess with pressure/time respond ?

Girdle can be drill-n-tap instead of welding a bung, right ?

BTW - good drawing specially with the logo on top , pro. look (yes).

Every bit of info helps man (thumb)

By placing the filter before the External PRV you run the chance of exploding your oil filter with unregulated oil pressure. Even the best racing filters are not rated for much above 150 psi (with 20w50 synthetic we typically see regulated oil pressure of ~100 psi on cold start-up). Standard street oil filters won't hold up to anywhere close to that. Also, if the can of the filter doesn't blow the gasket will. A huge mess will be the result!!

The oil is being drawn from the pan in the first place (by the pick-up which has a screen). Returning unfiltered oil to the place where it intially came from shouldn't be a big deal.

We like to place the oil filter right before the oil goes back to the block because as it enters the block the first place it goes is to the main bearings. As you know, they are very susceptible to scratching from particulate matter. Therefore, we like to make sure the oil is as filtered as possible.

If you still would like to put some sort of filtration prior to the External PRV a scavenge type of filter should hold up and be able to remove larger particulate matter.

Thanks for the good words on the drawing...was done late last night so coffee power was necessary(coffee)

[Maxx Mazda]

I just had a thought... With a sandwich plate, and NOT relocating the oil filter, doesn't a sand. plate just draw oil as it comes out of the block, as in before it's filtered?

[MP3racer]

I just had a thought... With a sandwich plate, and NOT relocating the oil filter, doesn't a sand. plate just draw oil as it comes out of the block, as in before it's filtered?

I'm not sure on this one as I have not personally looked at a sandwich plate ((hah)other than at a diner) so I'm not sure of the flow pattern. I'm not a big fan of them since they seem like they would impead the flow too much. Also, there is not much room under the intake to get a decent size filter on the block let alone a sandwich plate. I it were me a remote oil filter housing with a good size oil filter would be the way to go.

[Speed3.5]

I'm not sure on this one as I have not personally looked at a sandwich plate ((hah)other than at a diner) so I'm not sure of the flow pattern. I'm not a big fan of them since they seem like they would impead the flow too much. Also, there is not much room under the intake to get a decent size filter on the block let alone a sandwich plate. I it were me a remote oil filter housing with a good size oil filter would be the way to go.


Yeah I was going to say the same, I'm using a bit bigger size oil filter then stocker and it has only 2-3 mm space between intake mani and the filter so sandwich plate will not be a good option.

Well, just wondered on the filter position thing but its more then clear so I'd stick w/ the designed placement.

MAT , coffee is necessary sometimes, helped me through some exams with good results (headbang)

[MP3racer]

Yeah I was going to say the same, I'm using a bit bigger size oil filter then stocker and it has only 2-3 mm space between intake mani and the filter so sandwich plate will not be a good option.

Well, just wondered on the filter position thing but its more then clear so I'd stick w/ the designed placement.

MAT , coffee is necessary sometimes, helped me through some exams with good results (headbang)

Yes...been there with the exam thing many a time....nowadays has helped us to get a racecar together in record time once or twice ;)

[magnumP5]

I'll bump the thread again...

So this had been bugging me now that I have a spare block to work on for my built motor. I think I remember reading a good pressure to set was 10 psi for every 1000 RPM, is that correct or am I remembering things poorly? This just worries me as it sets the idle oil pressure around 7.5 psi and the cruise oil pressure at 30 psi (3000 RPM ~ 60 mph). This just seems a little low. I mean 65 psi at 6500 RPM seems fine - especially for the turbo (I believe Garrett says BB turbos should not see more than 60 psi).

For reference, my current idle oil pressure is 22-24 psi and around 60 psi at cruise.

[cougar10agREDUX]

hmm, i'm seeing 15-17psi at idle and 40-45psi at 60mph.

[MP3racer]

I'll bump the thread again...

So this had been bugging me now that I have a spare block to work on for my built motor. I think I remember reading a good pressure to set was 10 psi for every 1000 RPM, is that correct or am I remembering things poorly? This just worries me as it sets the idle oil pressure around 7.5 psi and the cruise oil pressure at 30 psi (3000 RPM ~ 60 mph). This just seems a little low. I mean 65 psi at 6500 RPM seems fine - especially for the turbo (I believe Garrett says BB turbos should not see more than 60 psi).

For reference, my current idle oil pressure is 22-24 psi and around 60 psi at cruise.


You are correct that a basic "rule of thumb" states 10 psi for every 1000 rpm. However, that is just a basic rule. I agree that 65-70 psi at redline (or 6500 rpm) is good but for a turbo motor 30 psi at 3000 rpm is a bit low. The intake pressure in a forced induction motor puts quite a bit of stress on the rod and main bearings and actually tries to squeeze the oil out. In the FS-DE motor the rod bearings do not have direct oiling supply. They rely on "scavaging" it from the main bearings. We have found with our race motors that increasing the oil pressure from idle and into the mid-range helps with the longevity of the bearings and ultimately the motor itself.

Your reference oil pressures are very similar to the oil pressures we run in our race motors.

[magnumP5]

You are correct that a basic "rule of thumb" states 10 psi for every 1000 rpm. However, that is just a basic rule. I agree that 65-70 psi at redline (or 6500 rpm) is good but for a turbo motor 30 psi at 3000 rpm is a bit low. The intake pressure in a forced induction motor puts quite a bit of stress on the rod and main bearings and actually tries to squeeze the oil out. In the FS-DE motor the rod bearings do not have direct oiling supply. The rely on "scavaging" it from the main bearings. We have found with our race motors that increasing the oil pressure from idle and into the mid-range helps with the longevity of the bearings and ultimately the motor itself.

Your reference oil pressures are very similar to the oil pressures we run in our race motors.
Sorry for continuing with the questions but I was under the impression the external PRV was a linear unit. IE, when you increase pressure at one point, it gets increased all over. I'm just worried that if I set my oil pressure to be ~60 psi or so at cruise that it will be too high at WOT at higher RPM.

Or am I getting this all wrong. By adjusting the external PRV are you adjusting oil pressure directly, or doing so by adjusting the pressure at which oil gets bypassed back to the engine? If this is the case, then there wouldn't be an issue with low pressure at idle and cruise provided I have the unit adjusted correctly.

[Maxx Mazda]

Good question... Is the PRV liek a "wastegate" that opens at a preset pressure and bypasses oil, and every pressure below that goes right into the engine, or does it gradually let pressure bleed off at a constant rate over the whole range of pressure. (Ex. 10% of all pressure gets dumped, so at idle 20psi in would mean 18psi out, and at 100psi in, 90psi out.) Make sense?

[magnumP5]

...or does it gradually let pressure bleed off at a constant rate over the whole range of pressure. (Ex. 10% of all pressure gets dumped, so at idle 20psi in would mean 18psi out, and at 100psi in, 90psi out.) Make sense?
This is another good theory and more likely than my linear approximation.

[MP3racer]

The external PRV's are basically the same as the OE internal units except they have the ability to be adjusted and the ability to send the bypassed oil to a place where it doesn't interfere with the building oil pressure.

The unit is constantly bypassing pressure. The amount it is bypassing depends on how much pressure is put on the internal spring by turning the index bolt in or out.

60 psi at cruising speed is a bit high if your cruising rpm is around 3500. I would look for around 40-45, but before you adjust it further what is your oil pressure at redline or WOT throttle?

[MP3racer]

I have had a fellow forum member interested in this system who is trying to put together a list of parts needed for the conversion to this system since he is in Europe. I put together a list from the install we did on the race car. I have not done this install on a street car myself. I wondered if the fellow forum members who have done this conversion can chime in to add or modify the parts on the list that are required.

Thanks in advance!!

Besides the normal Upgraded oil pump and external PRV the list is:

20 feet AN 10 hose
7 AN10 straight fittings
1 AN10 90 degree fitting (bypass return to block)
Bung for Block Girdle
Oil Filter Block Adapter
Remote Filter Housing
2 Fittings for remote filter housing
2 Fittings for Oil Filter Block Adapter
Filter for remote housing

[mazdaspeed_kid8]

hi when i use my AC on my mazdaspeed the oil pressure drops to 0 PSI normally it is at 5-7 PSI with the AC off this is at Idle can anybody tell me if that is normal or if the oil pump needs changing. thanks

[MP3racer]

hi when i use my AC on my mazdaspeed the oil pressure drops to 0 PSI normally it is at 5-7 PSI with the AC off this is at Idle can anybody tell me if that is normal or if the oil pump needs changing. thanks

What gauge are you using to determine these oil pressures, the stock gauge in the dash or an aftermarket gauge?

[mazdaspeed_kid8]

i am using a prosport digital gauge

[MP3racer]

i am using a prosport digital gauge

Is it an electric or mechanical gauge? If electric you might be having an electrical issue. If your oil pressure truely went to zero you would hear lost of noise coming from the valve cover! However, the normally low idle oil pressure you listed isn't great either....

[mazdaspeed_kid8]

it is electric and yes 1 or 2 of my lifters are keeping noise so would you suggest to change my oil pump and if so i saw top line have a replacement oil pump selling on ebay is that a good oil pump or is that a waste of time

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-03-MAZDA-PROTEGE-2-0L-16V-NEW-TOPLINE-OIL-PUMP-FS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262Q QcategoryZ6778QQihZ027QQitemZ400016969622QQtcZphot o

[MP3racer]

it is electric and yes 1 or 2 of my lifters are keeping noise so would you suggest to change my oil pump and if so i saw top line have a replacement oil pump selling on ebay is that a good oil pump or is that a waste of time

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-03-MAZDA-PROTEGE-2-0L-16V-NEW-TOPLINE-OIL-PUMP-FS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262Q QcategoryZ6778QQihZ027QQitemZ400016969622QQtcZphot o

If your oil pressure were at zero all your lifters would be making noise. That is not to say that a few lifters making noise is a good thing. The problem could be from several issues; needing an oil change, worn engine bearings, or a poor oil pump. I'd check out the system further before changing the pump though.

[mazdaspeed_kid8]

ok i changed the oil to see if the lifter noise would go away but it didnt i am now about to overhaul the engine because the engine is burning oil i have jus bought the full gasket set but i wanted to know if i can use the same oil pump or if i should change it because the low oil pressure may be because the engine is losing oil internally i havent had to put in oil recently but before i had to keep checking the oil level but since i changed the oil the level havent moved but i am going to go ahead and overhaul the engine do u think i should change the oil pump as well

[Signature Sound]

HELL YES! Change that pump, and your water pump and anything else that is the LIFELINE of your engine. It is foolish to spend all that money on a rebuild and skimp on the most vital components. An oil pump is only $100. A seized engine will cost a whole lot more.

[mazdaspeed_kid8]

thanks very much for all of your help and is this oil pump a good oil pump

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-03-MAZDA-PROTEGE-2-0L-16V-NEW-TOPLINE-OIL-PUMP-FS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262Q QcategoryZ6778QQihZ027QQitemZ400016969622QQtcZphot o

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

I have had a fellow forum member interested in this system who is trying to put together a list of parts needed for the conversion to this system since he is in Europe. I put together a list from the install we did on the race car. I have not done this install on a street car myself. I wondered if the fellow forum members who have done this conversion can chime in to add or modify the parts on the list that are required.

Thanks in advance!!

Besides the normal Upgraded oil pump and external PRV the list is:

20 feet AN 10 hose
7 AN10 straight fittings
1 AN10 90 degree fitting (bypass return to block)
Bung for Block Girdle
Oil Filter Block Adapter
Remote Filter Housing
2 Fittings for remote filter housing
2 Fittings for Oil Filter Block Adapter
Filter for remote housing


C'mon people, i need some help on this....

[CustomMSP]

Question for you smart guys out there :D

Are my rod bearings going or is the oil pump going?

Data;

Cold oil pressure - around 65 psi at 3k rpm
Hot oil pressure - never above 50 psi with a drop to about 40 psi at redline
When hot, the oil pressure drops a small amount (no more than 5psi) with any throttle application. Off throttle it goes back up.

Installed parts;

AWR oil pan
Brand new non ball bearing turbo with the stock Mazdaspeed oil feed line and no restrictor.
Block and pump have around 75k miles.

Thanks!

[magnumP5]

C'mon people, i need some help on this....
Seriously what more do you need? Not only has he listed out all the items needed (several times) he's also posted pictures detailing the installation and routing of each part.

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Seriously what more do you need? Not only has he listed out all the items needed (several times) he's also posted pictures detailing the installation and routing of each part.

you have a PM

[Crazee D]

I have been looking for pre-made SS hose assemblies...

[Maxx Mazda]

I go to my local performance shop and buy bulk hose it's cheaper. I think -10AN is only $1/ft. Then the ends you buy and bolt them on.

[Signature Sound]

I have been looking for pre-made SS hose assemblies...

pre-made is bad. I agree with MAXX. get some bulk and make your own. that way you will not be limited to how or where you are routing due to length issues. they are very easy to put the ends on yourself and you can color coordinate to your liking. you will be thankful you have extras for all those lines you forgot about.

[Signature Sound]

thanks very much for all of your help and is this oil pump a good oil pump

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-03-MAZDA-PROTEGE-2-0L-16V-NEW-TOPLINE-OIL-PUMP-FS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262Q QcategoryZ6778QQihZ027QQitemZ400016969622QQtcZphot o

its the exact same one one i bought. mine spec'd out very good, but i had Tom (MP3 Racer) do the special coating anyway. If you want the proper pressure and longevity for your oil system, I highly recommend having the treatment done. Its worth the wait (approx 3 weeks).

[Speed3.5]

Question for you smart guys out there :D

Are my rod bearings going or is the oil pump going?

Data;

Cold oil pressure - around 65 psi at 3k rpm
Hot oil pressure - never above 50 psi with a drop to about 40 psi at redline
When hot, the oil pressure drops a small amount (no more than 5psi) with any throttle application. Off throttle it goes back up.

Installed parts;

AWR oil pan
Brand new non ball bearing turbo with the stock Mazdaspeed oil feed line and no restrictor.
Block and pump have around 75k miles.

Thanks!

Problem isn't the car my friend , it might be just you (thought) lol

[MP3racer]

Question for you smart guys out there :D

Are my rod bearings going or is the oil pump going?

Data;

Cold oil pressure - around 65 psi at 3k rpm
Hot oil pressure - never above 50 psi with a drop to about 40 psi at redline
When hot, the oil pressure drops a small amount (no more than 5psi) with any throttle application. Off throttle it goes back up.

Installed parts;

AWR oil pan
Brand new non ball bearing turbo with the stock Mazdaspeed oil feed line and no restrictor.
Block and pump have around 75k miles.

Thanks!


Hard to tell what is exactly the problem. More than likely with 75K miles it is a combination of both the bearings and the oil pump.
With 40 psi at redline, if your bearings aren't worn they soon will be!!

BTW, what weight oil are you using? Is it petroleum based or synthetic? How long has it been since your last oil change??

[MP3racer]

I have been looking for pre-made SS hose assemblies...


Pre-made SS hose assemblies are nice because they use the high pressure crimped fittings.and you can bypass the tedious assembly process.

However, the choices for length and fitting end typpes is definitely limited. By going with the bulk hose and re-usable ends you can custom make your lines to your particular installation for length fitting angulation.

A couple of words of advice (unfortunately from experience), be careful with the pre-assembled used ss hoses (NASCAR Surplus) for sale on ebay. Many times these are from motors that have had detrimental endings (NASCAR's version of zoom, zoom, boom boom). They will be left with small metal particles that are embedded on the inside of the hose that are all but impossible to wash out. The particles will eventuall come loose with use. Those particles then enter your engine to cause harm to your bearings, etc.

Secondly, be careful with the "new" colored hoses. They are cheaper and easier to assemble with push-on hose ends. However, they don't stand up to pressure as well as the SS hose. They also do not have very good abrasion resistance which can be a big problem if a hose wears through.

[MP3racer]

thanks very much for all of your help and is this oil pump a good oil pump

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/01-03-MAZDA-PROTEGE-2-0L-16V-NEW-TOPLINE-OIL-PUMP-FS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262Q QcategoryZ6778QQihZ027QQitemZ400016969622QQtcZphot o

Yeah, it's a decent pump. However, we might be able to rejuvinate your old one with our service.

[CustomMSP]

Hard to tell what is exactly the problem. More than likely with 75K miles it is a combination of both the bearings and the oil pump.
With 40 psi at redline, if your bearings aren't worn they soon will be!!

BTW, what weight oil are you using? Is it petroleum based or synthetic? How long has it been since your last oil change??

Pennzoil Synthetic 5-30, brand new or old, same deal. What caught my eye is the fact that oil pressure fluctuates with throttle application, which was not the case a few months ago. Plus the idle pressure is lower now as well. I guess the next thing to do would be an oil pump overhaul. I'll be sending you one asap.

I used to run the car hard in the mountains up in souther CA, and i'm sure that the bearings took a beating with the stock oil pan.

Thanks!

[MP3racer]

Pennzoil Synthetic 5-30, brand new or old, same deal. What caught my eye is the fact that oil pressure fluctuates with throttle application, which was not the case a few months ago. Plus the idle pressure is lower now as well. I guess the next thing to do would be an oil pump overhaul. I'll be sending you one asap.

I used to run the car hard in the mountains up in souther CA, and i'm sure that the bearings took a beating with the stock oil pan.

Thanks!

Yeah, early on in the development of the FS-DE race motors we would see a drop-off in oil pressure as the bearings started to wear.

As you come off idle does your turbo build any pressure immediately? That can create quite a downward force on the piston and rod which translates to the crankshaft. This can cause an increase in the main bearing clearance to one side and decrease the oil pressure. Just theorizing here...

Remember, the improved oil pump is only part of the system. You really need the external PRV to get the most out of the system!

[CustomMSP]

Yeah, early on in the development of the FS-DE race motors we would see a drop-off in oil pressure as the bearings started to wear.

As you come off idle does your turbo build any pressure immediately? That can create quite a downward force on the piston and rod which translates to the crankshaft. This can cause an increase in the main bearing clearance to one side and decrease the oil pressure. Just theorizing here...

Remember, the improved oil pump is only part of the system. You really need the external PRV to get the most out of the system!

I have a t3/t4, so it's not that instantaneous with pressure. I hear you on the complete system, I think I'll send out a pump and ask you to prepare it for me for the EBV. Then I'll swap out the bearings to tri-metal. Should be good to go.

Thanks,

[MP3racer]

I have a t3/t4, so it's not that instantaneous with pressure. I hear you on the complete system, I think I'll send out a pump and ask you to prepare it for me for the EBV. Then I'll swap out the bearings to tri-metal. Should be good to go.

Thanks,


On the bearings, we found that for the mains the Mazda OE bearings work just fine! We use a special made bearing for the rods though.

[CustomMSP]

On the bearings, we found that for the mains the Mazda OE bearings work just fine! We use a special made bearing for the rods though.

Good to know, thanks.

[Signature Sound]

On the bearings, we found that for the mains the Mazda OE bearings work just fine! We use a special made bearing for the rods though.

where do you get special anything for our cars? but seriously, where do you get special rod bearings?? I want some! Come on Tommy... HOOK US UP!!!! you're holding back.

[Crazee D]

is Swain tech involved in treating the bearings perhaps?

[Maxx Mazda]

If I sent you a set of pistons with my oil pump can swain tech coat the skirts as well?

[MP3racer]

where do you get special anything for our cars? but seriously, where do you get special rod bearings?? I want some! Come on Tommy... HOOK US UP!!!! you're holding back.

Clevite has been a technical partner and sponsor of the team for the development of the FS-DE. They have been a tremendous help in supplying an engineer to work with us. The rod bearings Clevite has helped us to develop are actual racing type rod bearings. As everyone knows, there are not many applications in the racing world for the Mazda FS-DE engine. Therefore, the rod bearings are actaully from a different application and require some machine work to the bearings themselves to make them work. It also requires cutting the notch in the rod cap for the bearing tang on the opposite side from the OE bearing. This is easily ordered at the time of the forged rod purchase when new or you can send them back to the manufacturer to have this done.

Due to the machining work that is required to the rod bearings and that they are true racing bearings they are considerably more costly than regular rod bearings. I can get a price if anyone is interested.

And yes, they are coated but that only helps the bearings further. It is not the only advantage these bearings have over OE.

[MP3racer]

If I sent you a set of pistons with my oil pump can swain tech coat the skirts as well?

Yes, I can take parts over to Swain. Let me know what you want to do and I will get a quote for you. Usually, you would have the skirts coated with the lubricity coating. Also, we have the piston tops coated with their thermal barrier coating. Helps by keeping the heat in the valve chamber for better combustion and keeps the oil cooler by less heat transfer through the piston. Also, to a degree can help deter problems when detonation occurs.

LMK

[Speed3.5]

tom - even though you guys have dev. some internal parts you guys don't put too much whp on FS-DET right ?

If the power in question was to 400whp and up will those bearing that you guys have dev. work perf. but the car will be DD as well?

BTW do you guys get special deal's from SWAIN TECH ?

CustomMSP- you plan on using 5w30 on summer as well ?

[MP3racer]

tom - even though you guys have dev. some internal parts you guys don't put too much whp on FS-DET right ?

If the power in question was to 400whp and up will those bearing that you guys have dev. work perf. but the car will be DD as well?

BTW do you guys get special deal's from SWAIN TECH ?

CustomMSP- you plan on using 5w30 on summer as well ?


I'm not sure what you mean by "too much whp"?? We are limited to around 10 psi so we get as much whp with that boost level as we can.

These bearings are similar to the bearings used in Indycar and Nascar engines so they are able to take considerable HP.

Regarding Swain, we don't get any "deals" but they are no longer taking parts direct. We can send them over to them for coating if you need them done. I will try to get the best price for you.

[Speed3.5]

w/ 10 psi limit you guys are ~250whp , comparing to 400+whp load I'm assuming bearings can't be the same but then again I'm not an expert on internals. But, how come the stock MAIN bearing are more favorable instead of an aftermarket one comparing to 400+whp again thats why I brought up the HP differences.

I'll keep you in mind when time comes for Coating.

[MP3racer]

w/ 10 psi limit you guys are ~250whp , comparing to 400+whp load I'm assuming bearings can't be the same but then again I'm not an expert on internals. But, how come the stock MAIN bearing are more favorable instead of an aftermarket one comparing to 400+whp again thats why I brought up the HP differences.

I'll keep you in mind when time comes for Coating.

Building an engine requires several factors to be evaluated. One of the most important factors we have found is the engine bearing clearance. The Mazda mains are available in various sizes (thicknesses) to enable us to get the clearance numbers we found to work. To get these specific clearances you need to pick the bearing thickness for each journal according to the crankshaft journal diameter for that specific journal.

The Mazda rod bearings do not come in various bearing thicknesses to allow the same choice. Also, in a forced induction motor the rods take quite a beating from the higher combustion pressures. Therefore, we went with the Clevite racing rod bearings which do have a few thicknesses available. The other way to do this is to have your crankshaft cut to a specific undercut size and use +10 bearings. However, this is even more expensive and it is hard to find a machine shop that has that level of a preciscion crankshaft grinder.

This type of precision engine building is the norm for most racing motors whether they be 250 hp or 400hp.

[Signature Sound]

Building an engine requires several factors to be evaluated...

Also, in a forced induction motor the rods take quite a beating from the higher combustion pressures. Therefore, we went with the Clevite racing rod bearings which do have a few thicknesses available. The other way to do this is to have your crankshaft cut to a specific undercut size and use +10 bearings. However, this is even more expensive and it is hard to find a machine shop that has that level of a preciscion crankshaft grinder.

This type of precision engine building is the norm for most racing motors whether they be 250 hp or 400hp.

With this being my third build for the car, I had taken this into consideration as well. For anyone interested and in the area, there is a machine shop in Grand rapids, MI that does this kind of precision machining. Their name is "Austin-Jordan" and they do really good work for what they charge. I had my LSD installed for only $100, My entire rotation assy. balanced for $122, block bored and decked for $70 and they grinded the crank for free when they balanced it. I gave them all the parts they requested to do the job completely, but how I know the clearances were right is my brother-in-law assembled the motor. He was very impressed knowing how crucial bore tolerance can be for forged pistons and the like. If you happen to give them the wrong part or the wrong size of something, they will exchange it for the right part and not try to upcharge you.

I wish I would have done the coating thing before assembly on this motor. Now I feel inadequate! LOL

[jwehrheim]

MP3Racer,
I would like to have my oil pump coated. Where can I sent the pump and what is the cost?
Thanks

[MP3racer]

MP3Racer,
I would like to have my oil pump coated. Where can I sent the pump and what is the cost?
Thanks

This is a reprint from the first post....
The pricing is as follows:
$100 for blueprint service on the oil pump
$130 for external bypass valves (Sorry everyone, the company that makes the PRV had a slight price increase for 2009 so the price went from $125 to $130....I held them to the wall as much as possible and split the increase! I am able to keep the oil pump service at the 2008 price for now....)

If purchasing together I will include modifying the oil pump to work with an external bypass valve! You should be able to source your own sandwich plates, hoses, and bung for the MBSP or pan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MP3racer http://static.mazdas247.com/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3768102#post3768102)
The $100 covers:
1.receiving your pump
2.disassembling your pump
3.recording pre-coating specs
4.sending to Swain Tech
5.coating of parts at Swain Tech
6.receiving back from Swain Tech
7.recording post-coating specs
8.reassembly of your pump

Shipping cost back to you is determined by where you are located. You will receive with your pump a copy of the specs.
The current turn-around time is 3 weeks including the time at Swain Tech.

PM me your address and I will geta shipping quote for you. I will also send you our address.

[03.5MSP]

This might be a little too much to ask but can you guys give us more info on the engine and stuff you guys have done. For example I didn't know you guys had custom clevite race bearings for your engine. I will be building a motor in the future and I really want to do it once and right. I just figured you guys have so much knowledge and maybe you can share it with us and helps us all out.

Thanks,
Marko

[Signature Sound]

hey Tom, I have to second this request. I am very interested in any RACE mods you are doing

[MP3racer]

This might be a little too much to ask but can you guys give us more info on the engine and stuff you guys have done. For example I didn't know you guys had custom clevite race bearings for your engine. I will be building a motor in the future and I really want to do it once and right. I just figured you guys have so much knowledge and maybe you can share it with us and helps us all out.

Thanks,
Marko


Sounds like we need a new thread discussing the various mods and parts we use in our motors. Work is going fever-pitched on the racecar since there is less than four weeks to the first race (spin). I'll try to get something started soon....

[Signature Sound]

Sounds like we need a new thread discussing the various mods and parts we use in our motors. Work is going fever-pitched on the racecar since there is less than four weeks to the first race (spin). I'll try to get something started soon....

you know, with the top notch service and second to none pricing, you would be every Protege owners best friend... assuming you would be able to do deals like you do for the coating and PRV's. I think I speak for a lot of other owners, but I wish I knew about all this stuff before I built my motor again (third time). the research, experience and parts you have is a huge edge that I would love to have over anyone else.

[jboymp5]

are you guys still doing the oil pump mod

[MP3racer]

are you guys still doing the oil pump mod


Yes!! Look at the first post of this thread for the details. When you are ready PM me with your shipping address and I will get you a return shipping quote and the shipping address to send your pump to.

Tom

[Maxx Mazda]

Okay, now to REALLY confuse people. I've decided to relocate my oil filter and go with the same setup DocB runs on their race cars. Now I had a thought that may or may not eliminate returning the oil to the pan. I don't think this would work, but bear with me.

On the oil pump, where the oil outlets into the engine (in this case, NOT regulated yet.) there is a 3/8NPT hex head bolt. Now, instead of taking the unregulated oil from the stock "filter out" location, what if we took it from here?

So, you could take the oil from the pump before it goes into the engine, then back into the car at the "oil filter in" port, and the waste oil could go at the stock "oil filter out" port. I doubt this would work for obvious reasons, but i spent all the time making a neat-o drawing, so entertain me lol.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/Pump1.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/Pump2.jpg

Tom I sent you a PM, I want to get my pump out ASAP. Also re: getting my pistons coated, how thick is the skirt coating?

[MP3racer]

Okay, now to REALLY confuse people. I've decided to relocate my oil filter and go with the same setup DocB runs on their race cars. Now I had a thought that may or may not eliminate returning the oil to the pan. I don't think this would work, but bear with me.

On the oil pump, where the oil outlets into the engine (in this case, NOT regulated yet.) there is a 3/8NPT hex head bolt. Now, instead of taking the unregulated oil from the stock "filter out" location, what if we took it from here?

So, you could take the oil from the pump before it goes into the engine, then back into the car at the "oil filter in" port, and the waste oil could go at the stock "oil filter out" port. I doubt this would work for obvious reasons, but i spent all the time making a neat-o drawing, so entertain me lol.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/Pump1.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/Pump2.jpg

Tom I sent you a PM, I want to get my pump out ASAP. Also re: getting my pistons coated, how thick is the skirt coating?


Imteresting idea. We had looked at this before but passed because it just added more work to the block. You would need to plug the normal outlet to the motor either in the pump or at the face of the block where the oil pump mates to it. Otherwise, you would split your oil flow. Unfortunately, you could not use the "out" port on the oil filter plate since this would be now a dead end.
I see where you are trying to go with this but the bypass is an intermittant flow and if you didn't plug the oil pump end your flow would split between the two ports.

As far as the piston coating for the skirts, I can't remember exactly what the coating thickness is. I think it is .0005" but I can check on Monday for sure.

[Maxx Mazda]

Well it was worth a try, thanks for looking at my drawings lol. I guess if push comes to shove it makes a good spot to mount a pre regulated oil pressure gauge. I'll get that pump out on Monday, and I definitly will want the coating, so once we get shipping figured out I'll paypal it all and we can go ahead with it. How far can you throw? Fire it over the lake into a mailbox in Toronto to save on shipping hahaha.

[Jaysanooch]

There's just one thing I don't understand about the regulator...say I run this set up for occasional lapping on the weekends...yet my car is a daily driver, will I need to constantly adjust the pressure?

Example I get to the track set it to 70-80psi...go nuts on the track for an hour. I drive home and get stuck in traffic...does it stay at 70-80psi even at idle?

[Maxx Mazda]

If you go back a few pages, I asked taht very thing, and it's not a "set" value. It basically bleeds off a percent of the pressure at whatever RPM, so you will set it for say 35psi at idle, and then by the time you hit 6K it'll be around 80 or so.

[Jaysanooch]

If you go back a few pages, I asked taht very thing, and it's not a "set" value. It basically bleeds off a percent of the pressure at whatever RPM, so you will set it for say 35psi at idle, and then by the time you hit 6K it'll be around 80 or so.

Thank you! I should do this then...what's another couple a hun on a 8k motor lol!


Good question... Is the PRV liek a "wastegate" that opens at a preset pressure and bypasses oil, and every pressure below that goes right into the engine, or does it gradually let pressure bleed off at a constant rate over the whole range of pressure. (Ex. 10% of all pressure gets dumped, so at idle 20psi in would mean 18psi out, and at 100psi in, 90psi out.) Make sense?


The external PRV's are basically the same as the OE internal units except they have the ability to be adjusted and the ability to send the bypassed oil to a place where it doesn't interfere with the building oil pressure.

The unit is constantly bypassing pressure. The amount it is bypassing depends on how much pressure is put on the internal spring by turning the index bolt in or out.

60 psi at cruising speed is a bit high if your cruising rpm is around 3500. I would look for around 40-45, but before you adjust it further what is your oil pressure at redline or WOT throttle?

Yes I read everything and if your referring to these....then it wasn't very clear to me.

[MP3racer]

There's just one thing I don't understand about the regulator...say I run this set up for occasional lapping on the weekends...yet my car is a daily driver, will I need to constantly adjust the pressure?

Example I get to the track set it to 70-80psi...go nuts on the track for an hour. I drive home and get stuck in traffic...does it stay at 70-80psi even at idle?


The setup with external PRV is just fine to run on a daily driver. It is not that different from the OE setup except that when the motor is run hard it prevents the cavitation problem from occuring by returning the bypassed oil to a place where it won't cause foaming of the oil and the detrimental oil pressure loss (zoom, zoom, boom ,boom).
Because the external PRV is adjustable you can set it to have exactly the same oil pressure as stock. However, since most of these setups are placed in performance motors increasing the oil pressure range from idle to redline is beneficial.

Thanks Maxx Mazda for replying!!

[Jaysanooch]

Thanks for clearing things up. Pm sent!

[ForceFed]

I can't beleive people are still having trouble understanding this setup.....It's actually quite simple in design.

[Maxx Mazda]

Just an update and kudos to Tom, I phoned him today just to get a simple update on my pump's status, and he was more than happy to answer all my questions! Thanks again Tom!

[CulRidr]

Blah...I wish I had seen this thread before. My engine is getting dropped in this week with a brand new oil pump and external oil cooler. Wish I had known about this because I would most likely have gone with this system :(

[boostdprotegelx]

Blah...I wish I had seen this thread before. My engine is getting dropped in this week with a brand new oil pump and external oil cooler. Wish I had known about this because I would most likely have gone with this system :(

might be worth it to hold off till you can get this system bro

[CulRidr]

Another 6 weeks? Are you kidding me? The dealership would kill me for not having done enough research in advance...and having my car in their service bay for that long (that and me having their loaner car for that much long; already been a month)

[boostdprotegelx]

Another 6 weeks? Are you kidding me? The dealership would kill me for not having done enough research in advance...and having my car in their service bay for that long (that and me having their loaner car for that much long; already been a month)

eek. didn't realize the time... well.. maybe you should get it and install it yourself!:) you're building a nice car.. i'd hate to see it go boom

[Maxx Mazda]

I researched this alot, and I think every member on here will agree that this mod alone is THE crowning jewel for the FS-DE. It literally is the heart of the engine, and the oil is the blood.

[boostdprotegelx]

I researched this alot, and I think every member on here will agree that this mod alone is THE crowning jewel for the FS-DE. It literally is the heart of the engine, and the oil is the blood.

agreed. i need to get it for my future build.

[tap'n'die]

Interesting, so it would also help me not get any more of these, then?
http://s444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/aflipz/?action=view&current=piston.jpg

[Maxx Mazda]

Got my pump back yesterday, haven't opened it yet, but it came in. Thanks Tom!

[Jaysanooch]

Same here!

[Breeegz]

Whew! 25 pages read... There is a lot of info in here that isn't in the first post...

If someone doesn't do it before me (ahem, mods) I might just go through this whole thing and make a FAQ or something..

I'm actually a lot smarter now that I've read 362 posts though.. Maybe this is the optimum thread layout?

[Signature Sound]

heres mine so far. just temporarily mocked up. oil cooler is mounted in wheel well, lines are AN -12, relocator and fittings bored and shaped for maximum flow and no sharp bends or restrictions. the motor is out and the windage tray is getting the weld in bung for the return line. no doubt the absolute pinnacle of this build. THANx Tom!!

[boostdprotegelx]

dirty!! lol. i plan to buy all of my stuff in the near future!

[Signature Sound]

like i said, mocked up. the whole compartment is getting cleaned out and prepped for flat black paint. i still have to modify the radiator support so there will be more welding going on in there. the front sub frame was modded for the oil cooler and supports and thats why it looks like shit right now.

[shane02pro5]

So when will the project be back on the road...I can remember that day myself about 5days to swap in my sc motor and rebuild the tranny with the par gears. I was more nervous than anxious doing my first full tranny rebuild but she's a beast :)

[Signature Sound]

i think thats the hardest part right now for me is not even having all the stuff needed right now. I am in process of ordering the PAR set up and am going to be sending payment to steedspeed for the new t3 mani. i was originally going to run a turbonetics GTK450, but the Garrett GT3071R is several hundred cheaper. while I am waiting, i have been fabbing brackets and totally revamping the entire wiring system. i want it to be clean and only have what is needed. with the new fuel system, oil system, cooling system..... blah, blah.... there is lots to be done. crazy tho, i already miss driving it.

hey shane, how hard is it to do the tranny gears? i know there will be some machining involved, but were PAR's instructions pretty comprehensive? what roadblocks did you run into? I am going to be doing everything they have to offer including the bearing cups. I have a feeling 450 is just not going to be enough sometime down the road and I sure as hell wont be wanting to do the tranny again.

[shane02pro5]

I went by the how-to disassemble tranny thread and also in the broken 3rd gear thread there is a link focus gave me for everything including all the clearances. The only thing I did different than what the manual used was a special tool to set your clearances on the input and output shafts and differential. I did pretty good with some calipers and blue machinists spray dye. Make sure you don't break the black oiler spout thing under the black endcap for 5th/reverse.

Good luck and hit me up if I can help with anything else :)

[Alamo1]

Hey! Tom, I'm getting into my rebuild right now. What kinda time frame will I be looking at? I live pretty close to Maxx, about 3 hours further north... Actually used to see his car on the way to work.

Please PM me with some details, I have a pump on my junkyard motor I can send right away.

[MP3racer]

Hey! Tom, I'm getting into my rebuild right now. What kinda time frame will I be looking at? I live pretty close to Maxx, about 3 hours further north... Actually used to see his car on the way to work.

Please PM me with some details, I have a pump on my junkyard motor I can send right away.

PM sent

[niky]

Please check PMs... would like to know current price if I also buy a core oil pump from you, and how much it would cost to ship overseas to the Philippines (I know you've answered before, but I don't know if the price has changed). I need this soon, but it'll cost too much to ship my current oil pump all the way there.

[MP3racer]

Please check PMs... would like to know current price if I also buy a core oil pump from you, and how much it would cost to ship overseas to the Philippines (I know you've answered before, but I don't know if the price has changed). I need this soon, but it'll cost too much to ship my current oil pump all the way there.


PM sent!!

[BlkWidow]

Has their been a price change? I am thinking about picking up a extra pump, that way I can send it in.

[MP3racer]

Has their been a price change? I am thinking about picking up a extra pump, that way I can send it in.

Prices are still the same as listed in the first post (yes)

Oil pump service $100

External PRV $130

[niky]

PM sent!!

Thanks!!! (hippy)

[Signature Sound]

anyone have photos of their install yet? here's mine. sorry the photos are small.

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

anyone have photos of their install yet? here's mine. sorry the photos are small.

they are useless bro.. can you please take more and make them big size thank you.

[big Lou]

they are useless bro.. can you please take more and make them big size thank you.

+1 I really want to see your set up. Will be doing this mod in the near future.

[Circuit]

Wow lots of reading over 26 pages. I may need a new motor soon and just want it to be reliable and not have to worry. No boost, no big NA power. Will the oil pan still need to be tapped for return?

Would this setup be any different for an NA motor since there is no turbo oil lines needed?

Man this thread really makes me want to get an oil pressure gauge.

[MP3racer]

Wow lots of reading over 26 pages. I may need a new motor soon and just want it to be reliable and not have to worry. No boost, no big NA power. Will the oil pan still need to be tapped for return?

Would this setup be any different for an NA motor since there is no turbo oil lines needed?

Man this thread really makes me want to get an oil pressure gauge.

Yeah, thanks to all the forum members for all the good info included in those pages!!

The set-up is basically the same for a NA system except that you only need one return line to the pan which would be for the external PRV (with a turbo there is an oil return line form the turbo too).

Hope this helps??

[Circuit]

Yeah, thanks to all the forum members for all the good info included in those pages!!

The set-up is basically the same for a NA system except that you only need one return line to the pan which would be for the external PRV (with a turbo there is an oil return line form the turbo too).

Hope this helps??

Yes it definitely does! So I would be ok with a tapped oil pan or girdle from an MSP?

[Jaysanooch]

I'm about to install this soon and my mechanic asked me to ask....how's the turbo gonna like 70-80psi? I forget if the stock turbo has a reducer...anyway, any info on this would be great. Thanks!

[MP3racer]

Yes it definitely does! So I would be ok with a tapped oil pan or girdle from an MSP?

Should be fine. Only difficulty might be that usually the oil pan or girdle are tapped on the font side of the motor for the turbo dran since that is where the turbo is placed on the motor. Therefore, if you use this drain outlet for the external PRV, it will require a bit longer line than if the drain were on the back side of the oil pan or girdle. Really just a small issue...

[MP3racer]

I'm about to install this soon and my mechanic asked me to ask....how's the turbo gonna like 70-80psi? I forget if the stock turbo has a reducer...anyway, any info on this would be great. Thanks!

The stock turbo is reduced by the small diameter of the oil supply line. This was engineered to provide the correct pressure and volume. Remember, as the motor increases rpm and the oil pressure builds to the 70-80psi, the motor bearings (rods and crank) and the bearings in the turbo require the increased pressure to provide the needed oil wedge.

The basic rule of thumb with oil pressure in performance motors is 10psi/1000 rpm so 70 psi at 7000 rpm is what it should have! You shouldn't really set it up to have 70 psi at idle.

If it matters, we have run ~30 psi at idle (1800 rpm) and 70-80 psi at redline (7200 rpm) the last three seasons all with the same turbo! We also use the factory oil supply and drain lines.

[MREDDLE]

Not to start anything but, to just chine in. Oil pressure at any RPM depends on alot of factures, including what oil you are using, tolerances, motor type, temp, ect...

[MP3racer]

Not to start anything but, to just chine in. Oil pressure at any RPM depends on alot of factures, including what oil you are using, tolerances, motor type, temp, ect...


You are absolutely correct sir! The oil pressures given above are merely recommendations and relative ranges which will be affected by the individuals specific circumstances such as but not inclusive of engine bearing clearance size, synthetic or petroleum based oils, specific oil weight, oil supply line diameter, engine temperature, relative time of use of said oil, etc., etc., etc.

Hope this "takes care" of the lawyers looking in??:confused:

[Alamo1]

If I'm gonna try to blast 300WHP out of my P5 and still just street drive mostly what should I do in regards to what oil I use?

Sorry, you haven't seen my pump yet Tom. I have been busy, but it is all clean now and I will send it next week.

[Signature Sound]

If it matters, we have run ~30 psi at idle (1800 rpm) and 70-80 psi at redline (7200 rpm) the last three seasons all with the same turbo! We also use the factory oil supply and drain lines.

so is that achieved by setting bearing clearances to allow a max of 70-80 psi? then you just set prv to whatever at idle and the rest is up to the motor's mechanical design? or can this be done with what oil type and visc. that you use?

[MREDDLE]

so is that achieved by setting bearing clearances to allow a max of 70-80 psi? then you just set prv to whatever at idle and the rest is up to the motor's mechanical design? or can this be done with what oil type and visc. that you use?


http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123742886
The above link has some great information. But dont take everything in here as the "word of god".

[MP3racer]

so is that achieved by setting bearing clearances to allow a max of 70-80 psi? then you just set prv to whatever at idle and the rest is up to the motor's mechanical design? or can this be done with what oil type and visc. that you use?


You can't really set your bearing clearances to acheive or allow a certain pressure or max pressure. Bearing clearances do affect the oil pressure but are set to create a certain oil wedge depending on the type of use the motor will see. Oil type (mineral based or synthetic) will vary the pressures seen due to the naturally low viscosity of synthetic oils relative to mineral based oils.

Each particular motor and situation will be somewhat different. The big advantage here is that we are all dealing with somewhat similar motors, at least in design, very similar oil pumps, and an adjustable regulator.

The best way to set up a system like this is to get a good oil pressure gauge and make sure the sensor is reading from a reliable port. At idle adjust the regulator to bring the oil pressure into a range you feel comfortable with for that rpm. Once the motor (and oil) has warmed to operating temperature slowly bring the motor up the rpm range and evaulate the oil pressure at each 1000 rpm increment. If it is aproximately 10 psi/1000 rpm that is a good range. If not, increase the setting on the regulator. Keep doing this slowly up the rpm range until a good pattern is seen. It takes a bit of time and adjustment.

The above description is just an overview of how we acheived the previously mentioned oil pressure ranges. It is not meant to be a difinitive method nor is it implied as absolutely correct.

[boostdprotegelx]

i love you guys. i would love to visit your shop, and check your setups!

[MP3racer]

If I'm gonna try to blast 300WHP out of my P5 and still just street drive mostly what should I do in regards to what oil I use?

Sorry, you haven't seen my pump yet Tom. I have been busy, but it is all clean now and I will send it next week.


It really depends upon your setup and turbo. Some manufacturers recommend mineral based oils for their turbos while others recommend synthetic. With our race motors we use synthetic for their ability to withstand high temperatures without breakdown. Even for our daily drivers we use synthetic for the relatively long service life over mineral based. I would determine what your likely use will be for that season and then purchase an oil type and weight to get you in the range you are looking for.

[boostdprotegelx]

which oil would you recommend?? i'll be switching to Royal purple soon.

[MP3racer]

which oil would you recommend?? i'll be switching to Royal purple soon.


Well of course I am biased to the oil we have been using in our race motors for over 10 years...Torco (www.torcousa.com (http://www.torcousa.com)). We have always had good luck with the full synthetic and the price is not that bad. I would bet also that if you gave them a call and asked them for a recommendation for your particular situation (giving them as many details such as type of use, average ambient temperature of the local area, type of bearings, etc.) they would likely give you a good basis to start from.

If you do call them - mention us, Doc B Racing, and the Mazda Protege(drinks)

[boostdprotegelx]

werd. when i can i visit?? you should think about coming to this national meet in july.

[MP3racer]

werd. when i can i visit?? you should think about coming to this national meet in july.


Where is the national meet going to be this year??

[boostdprotegelx]

Where is the national meet going to be this year??

well i believe this is a new one.. they're planning.. kansas or st louis i think.

here's the link.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123756422

[MP3racer]

well i believe this is a new one.. they're planning.. kansas or st louis i think.

here's the link.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123756422


Would love to go but July is at the height of the racing season and where they are talking of holding it would be quite a tow!! I'll keep it in mind and watch the thread to see what happens....

[Jaysanooch]

The stock turbo is reduced by the small diameter of the oil supply line. This was engineered to provide the correct pressure and volume. Remember, as the motor increases rpm and the oil pressure builds to the 70-80psi, the motor bearings (rods and crank) and the bearings in the turbo require the increased pressure to provide the needed oil wedge.

Good to know, thanks!

[MP3racer]

Any order placed in the next few weeks will receive a free hat (Hawk performance, eibach, torco, goodson or something similar)!!

[big Lou]

I still need to send you that oil pump.

[MP3racer]

I still need to send you that oil pump.

Do it soon and you can take advantage of the FREE HAT OFFER (drinks)

[yellow pro5]

dont mean to threadjack but i seen someplace that you were goin to start making fuel rails for the protege any luck on them

[big Lou]

Pump finally sent!

[Matt V]

Question on the FS-DE oiling system.

I'm a n00b to this motor. I daily drive my P5 and want to protect it for spirited street driving. It has 125k miles on the original motor, would replacing the factory pan with the AWR help me at all? Does the pan hang super low? I wouldn't want to scrape the AWR pan on the ground at all after I lower the car.

I'm just trying to do preventative maintenance that won't put a dent in my pocket.

[Maxx Mazda]

You won't scrape the pan.

[MP3racer]

Question on the FS-DE oiling system.

I'm a n00b to this motor. I daily drive my P5 and want to protect it for spirited street driving. It has 125k miles on the original motor, would replacing the factory pan with the AWR help me at all? Does the pan hang super low? I wouldn't want to scrape the AWR pan on the ground at all after I lower the car.

I'm just trying to do preventative maintenance that won't put a dent in my pocket.

The AWR pan does not hang down that low that you should be in danger of srcaping it without scraping other items under your car. It gets the added oil capacity from a wider pan.

That said, the pan will help keep oil around the pickup in very high G turns. However, there are other issues with the OE oiling system that rear their ugly head during consistent mid to high rpm use (also known as spirited driving for more than 10 minutes at a time). The main problem as has been stated in this thread previously is with the internal pressure relief valve of the OE oil pump. That is why we sell the external PRV and alter the OE system to allow the use of an external PRV. Also, by upgrading the OE pump to improved capabitity (our pump service) the system improves even further.

Hope this helps!

[MP3racer]

Pump finally sent!

Will let you know when we get it!! Your Hat is reserved!! (headbang)

[Matt V]

I see. So what you're saying is if you don't plan on driving in a spirited fashion for more than 10 minutes the stock pan would be ok? I would upgrade the pump but have no means or the need (at this time) to remove an otherwise perfectly running motor. Also, I hear you have to have the full AWR motor mount package to install this pan, due to there being very limited spacing and if the engine moves slightly it was clunk against other parts.

I plan on getting an oil pressure gauge soon to monitor oil levels, wouldn't hurt to know what's going on. Also, do you recommend 5W-30 in these or 10W-30?

[Signature Sound]

I have it and I think you would like it too. Any upgrades to oil system on our car is highly recommended. The pan hangs flush with the suspension pivot points and is quite strong. HOWEVER... If you really want the best non-power adder money can buy (especially for piece of mind) PM MP3Racer Tom and let him know your oil pump is its way to him. He will hook you up.



Question on the FS-DE oiling system.

I'm a n00b to this motor. I daily drive my P5 and want to protect it for spirited street driving. It has 125k miles on the original motor, would replacing the factory pan with the AWR help me at all? Does the pan hang super low? I wouldn't want to scrape the AWR pan on the ground at all after I lower the car.

I'm just trying to do preventative maintenance that won't put a dent in my pocket.

[MP3racer]

I see. So what you're saying is if you don't plan on driving in a spirited fashion for more than 10 minutes the stock pan would be ok? I would upgrade the pump but have no means or the need (at this time) to remove an otherwise perfectly running motor. Also, I hear you have to have the full AWR motor mount package to install this pan, due to there being very limited spacing and if the engine moves slightly it was clunk against other parts.

I plan on getting an oil pressure gauge soon to monitor oil levels, wouldn't hurt to know what's going on. Also, do you recommend 5W-30 in these or 10W-30?


When I mentioned the spirited driving "over 10 minutes" that is just a rough estimate. You may get problems before that.

Also, I did not reference the pan as a means to prevent the problems I stated. The pan will not solve the oil pumps inability to provide proper oil pressure. The pan prevents uncovering of the oil pickup in high G turns.

Two very different issues.

Oil weight depends on season (average ambient temperature), type of use the motor will see, mileage on the motor (motor condition), expected time between changes, etc.
If you need a recommendation for oil to run have a reputable mechanic look at the motor and give you an idea based on the factors above.

[Alamo1]

Hey Tom.... I show that my oil pump has arrived there, on friday. Can you just confirm this and maybe give me a heads up as to when you want me to paypal, what the estimated time of completion is and what cool hat I can have?

I'm not in a huge rush, just wanna know it got there safe and that this lowly canadian isn't going to be forgotten...

Thanks.

[MP3racer]

Hey Tom.... I show that my oil pump has arrived there, on friday. Can you just confirm this and maybe give me a heads up as to when you want me to paypal, what the estimated time of completion is and what cool hat I can have?

I'm not in a huge rush, just wanna know it got there safe and that this lowly canadian isn't going to be forgotten...

Thanks.

Your oil Pump has arrived and was opened for intial measurments. You have been PM'd with the specs and information.

Since you were the first to take advantage of our new FREE HAT OFFER you have your pick of which hat you would like!!

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/alamo1%20oil%20pump.jpg
Your pump in our shop with the assortment of hats to choose from.

BTW, great job on cleaning your oil pump!! (yes) I thought it was a brand new one at first!!

And don't consider yourself a "lowly Canadian", most of here at Doc B Racing consider ourselves part Canadian since we spend so much time in Canada racing in the Canadian Touring Car Championship with the MSP!

[Alamo1]

Your oil Pump has arrived and was opened for intial measurments. You have been PM'd with the specs and information.

Since you were the first to take advantage of our new FREE HAT OFFER you have your pick of which hat you would like!!

http://www.msprotege.com/members/MP3racer/alamo1%20oil%20pump.jpg
Your pump in our shop with the assortment of hats to choose from.

BTW, great job on cleaning your oil pump!! (yes) I thought it was a brand new one at first!!

And don't consider yourself a "lowly Canadian", most of here at Doc B Racing consider ourselves part Canadian since we spend so much time in Canada racing in the Canadian Touring Car Championship with the MSP!
I want the Hawk one! Thanks for the compliment, you have a PM. All I did for the cleaning was to use a fine wire attachment in a cordless drill, and our industrial parts washer... I'm now working on my MBSP to get it the same so I can weld fittings for my turbo drain and your ExPRV.... :rolleyes:

[MP3racer]

I want the Hawk one! Thanks for the compliment, you have a PM. All I did for the cleaning was to use a fine wire attachment in a cordless drill, and our industrial parts washer... I'm now working on my MBSP to get it the same so I can weld fittings for my turbo drain and your ExPRV.... :rolleyes:


If you are able to get it as clean as the oil pump shouldn't be a probelm to weld in the fittings!!

The Hawk hat will be reserved for you!!(yippy)

[big Lou]

Payment sent! Sorry about the dirty pump.

[MP3racer]

Payment sent! Sorry about the dirty pump.


It's OK this time....I will take care of it and clean it up(doh)

BTW, which hat did you want from the FREE HAT OFFER ?
(picture above)

[mp3-79bronco]

can you provide some good pics of the setup?

[MP3racer]

can you provide some good pics of the setup?


I do realize this thread is getting a bit long to read through.....Anyway, there are some pics of the system in #268 of this thread and a drawing of the layout in #284.

Hope this helps??

[boostdprotegelx]

got a question..

would sending you guys a used oil pump be pointless?? or do they not really wear out? i have a couple used pumps but i'm just not sure if what you guys do will extend the life, or basically start its new life...

[MP3racer]

got a question..

would sending you guys a used oil pump be pointless?? or do they not really wear out? i have a couple used pumps but i'm just not sure if what you guys do will extend the life, or basically start its new life...

Most used oil pumps can be serviced. (Altough, it really depends upon how they were used.) The vast majority of used pumps that have been sent in have worked just fine. With the service, they usually return to somewhere in the middle of the OE spec range.

No matter if the pump is new or used, when we receive it, it will be opened up and initial specs will be taken. Those specs will be PM'd to you so that you can determine if you want to have the service done for that specific pump.

And don't forget about the current FREE HAT OFFER with every new order in the next week!

[Matt V]

So bottom line, how much is the price for the oil pump modification if I send one to you and what is the average turn around time?

And this will for sure fix the oil feeding issues the FS-DE's have?

[MP3racer]

So bottom line, how much is the price for the oil pump modification if I send one to you and what is the average turn around time?

And this will for sure fix the oil feeding issues the FS-DE's have?


The service to bring an oil pump up to best specs is $100. The average turn around time is three weeks.

The oil pump itself helps but without switching the pressure releif valve to external (and purchasing an external pressure releif valve from us) and installing the system as described in this thread you will not get the full benefit of the system that has been run by several forum members here that can attest for its results.

[Matt V]

How much extra to switch it to the external pressure relief valve? Does this do anything to make the car less reliable or anything? In other words, could I safely daily drive on this?

[MP3racer]

How much extra to switch it to the external pressure relief valve? Does this do anything to make the car less reliable or anything? In other words, could I safely daily drive on this?


By going to external PRV you actually make it much more reliable. The conversion to your pump is free with the purchase of the external PRV which is $130. You will need to source the adapter plates and hoses for this install. The diagram and discussion is in this thread. The parts can be sourced from many places. Protege garage has a nice kit, ebay, jegs and summit have parts as well.

[MP3racer]

Again if it helps, there are some pics of the system in #268 of this thread and a drawing of the layout in #284

[Matt V]

Ok so in addition to the pump done by you we would also need an oil filter relocation kit and a girdle on the block if we don't wanna weld anything onto our oil pan?

Also, you should be able to remove the oil pump without removing the motor if we can remove the pan, correct?

[MP3racer]

Ok so in addition to the pump done by you we would also need an oil filter relocation kit and a girdle on the block if we don't wanna weld anything onto our oil pan?

Also, you should be able to remove the oil pump without removing the motor if we can remove the pan, correct?

That sounds like it...pump service($100) + external PRV ($130) + average return shipping ($15) = $245

You source oil filter relocation kit and girdle with bung welded on for return line from the external PRV

You should be able to remove the oil pump without removing the motor. It is a bit of a squeeze but possible.

[Alamo1]

That sounds like it...pump service($100) + external PRV ($130) + average return shipping ($15) = $235

You source oil filter relocation kit and girdle with bung welded on for return line from the external PRV

You should be able to remove the oil pump without removing the motor. It is a bit of a squeeze but possible.

Tom, You should have a look at your math there! Unless you're using some sort of far out there algebra to do your calculations...(thought)

[MP3racer]

Tom, You should have a look at your math there! Unless you're using some sort of far out there algebra to do your calculations...(thought)


Sorry...correction made! It was a long day (crazy)

[Alamo1]

Sorry...correction made! It was a long day (crazy)

I just thought it was funny cuz usually I make mistakes like that and nobody points them out to me....

[Maxx Mazda]

Ok so in addition to the pump done by you we would also need an oil filter relocation kit and a girdle on the block if we don't wanna weld anything onto our oil pan?

Also, you should be able to remove the oil pump without removing the motor if we can remove the pan, correct?

You *can* remove the pump with the engine still in the car, but it's a good 2 day job if you do it that way. You have to re-time the engine once you install the new pump, and that alone is a tedious task espesially in the car. For me, I have no emmissions crap or anything, I can have my engine and tranny out within 90 minutes. It really doesn't take as long as you'd think. SO yes, you can do it with the engine in the car, but you need to remove the transmission anyway to get the windage tray off, to get the oil pump to make a good seal, as well as to tap the windage tray.

The oil pump is really "buried" in there, I wouldn't suggest attempting it with the engine still in the car.

[03.5MSP]

Hey, Tom how about those specs on the FSDE motor you guys are running?? I know you mentioned something about larger bearing, etc.

[MP3racer]

Hey, Tom how about those specs on the FSDE motor you guys are running?? I know you mentioned something about larger bearing, etc.


Yes, we have found a true race bearing for the rods that we use in our motors. Requires recutting the rods for the bearing notch on the opposite side but otherwise have been great! I can supply for anyone interested but are pricey. I'll have to check current price.

What other specs are you interested in??

[big Lou]

How long do the bearings last for?

[MP3racer]

How long do the bearings last for?


I only have our race motors to go by but we have been "beating" on the same set of bearings for two seasons now.

I'm getting ready to pull the bottom end of the motor and check them soon. I can let you know how they look but I know that the motor was running strong with good oil pressure at the end of this season.

[big Lou]

Cool I might be interested in a set of these.

[MP3racer]

Cool I might be interested in a set of these.


Let me know when you are ready. Also, if you order forged rods let me know and I can let you know what to order so they can cut the needed slot in the cap for both OE and these race bearings

[StealthWyvern]

Let me know when you are ready. Also, if you order forged rods let me know and I can let you know what to order so they can cut the needed slot in the cap for both OE and these race bearings

the needed slot int he bearings I assume or the rods?

Edit: just to give a general idea what is the cost of those bearings?

[MP3racer]

the needed slot int he bearings I assume or the rods?

Edit: just to give a general idea what is the cost of those bearings?

The needed slot is in the rod cap. The tang that holds the bearing in place in the rod on the race bearings is on the opposite side of the OE bearings so another slot is needed.

The last time we purchased these (1.5 yrs ago) the price was around $100/set for the rod bearings. Prices change quickly in race products so I would need to check for accurate pricing.
They are expensive but work!!

[03.5MSP]

Yes, we have found a true race bearing for the rods that we use in our motors. Requires recutting the rods for the bearing notch on the opposite side but otherwise have been great! I can supply for anyone interested but are pricey. I'll have to check current price.

What other specs are you interested in??


Great posts Tom.. I was pretty much looking or any major changes that you guys have done to the FSDE, like the external oil pressure regulator and fixed oem pump, and the info about the rod bearings.. Any other info like that would be awesome, and much appreciated.

[Matt V]

Well since my car is a daily and I'm always on a budget, I'll probably just get the pump work done for $100. How do you recommend cleaning a pump before sending it to you?

And I'm gonna get a used one locally, does the mileage on it matter?

[MP3racer]

Well since my car is a daily and I'm always on a budget, I'll probably just get the pump work done for $100. How do you recommend cleaning a pump before sending it to you?

And I'm gonna get a used one locally, does the mileage on it matter?


Most used pumps are okay. For every pump we receive it will be opened and I will PM you the initial specs before any work is done. Then you can decide if you want to proceed with the specific pump or not.

To clean a pump any degreaser (orange stuff, fantastik, simple green, etc.) will work. A brush to scrub, and some towels to wipe it down afterward. Try not to spray too much liquid into the passages as you won't be able to get it out without disassembling the pump.

[Matt V]

Gotcha, I'm gonna try to get this done in December. Will the deal still be $100 in a few months if I can't get it in by then?

[Alamo1]

Got my pump today.... only $45 in duties.... looks good, Thanks a bunch Tom. There is something rattling around in the old PRV port... is that normal?

[Maxx Mazda]

Well since my car is a daily and I'm always on a budget, I'll probably just get the pump work done for $100. How do you recommend cleaning a pump before sending it to you?

And I'm gonna get a used one locally, does the mileage on it matter?

Not a good idea. Getting it without the external regulator almost defeats the purpose of getting it at all. The clearances will be tighter, but after any sustained driving, even just on the highway at 3500 RPM, you'll still have the exact same problem as before. Get the external regulator too, or just get a replacement TOGA high volume pump. That's what I ran before.

[CustomMSP]

Not a good idea. Getting it without the external regulator almost defeats the purpose of getting it at all. The clearances will be tighter, but after any sustained driving, even just on the highway at 3500 RPM, you'll still have the exact same problem as before. Get the external regulator too, or just get a replacement TOGA high volume pump. That's what I ran before.

I don't think that we have an issue with oil volume?

[Alamo1]

Maxx... What made you change from the toga? I trust Tom with my parts and they look good now that I have them back, but why the change if the toga was sufficient?

[Circuit]

So I just got my new 0 miles replacement motor and I want to eventually send in the oil pump for the service and set up the external valve.

To make things easier, can the original post be updated with all the info/parts needed to get everything set up?

I am thinking about the AWR oil pan too, but if it only adds capacity, and does not aid in defending against oil starvation, I don't think I should need it. Let me know what you think

[Alamo1]

+1 on the pan question...

[shane02pro5]

The AWR pan definately defends against oil starvation keeping the oil pickup submurged no matter what, as it was designed. But without sufficient oil pressure it won't help...

[MP3racer]

Got my pump today.... only $45 in duties.... looks good, Thanks a bunch Tom. There is something rattling around in the old PRV port... is that normal?


The old PRV port has been altered to allow the use of the external PRV. The part we install to hold the old PRV piston in place allows a slight amount of movement in the piston when the oil pump is cold since everything expands once the engine comes up to operating temperature.

Long story short....yes it should have a slight rattle(iagree)

[MP3racer]

So I just got my new 0 miles replacement motor and I want to eventually send in the oil pump for the service and set up the external valve.

To make things easier, can the original post be updated with all the info/parts needed to get everything set up?

I am thinking about the AWR oil pan too, but if it only adds capacity, and does not aid in defending against oil starvation, I don't think I should need it. Let me know what you think


The system is fairly straightforward...if you send in a pump Doc B Racing will service it to bring it up to optimum specs and convert the pump for use of an external PRV.

pump service($100) + external PRV ($130) + average return shipping ($15) = $245

You source oil filter relocation kit and girdle with bung welded on for return line from the external PRV.

There are some pics of the system in #268 of this thread and a diagram of the system in #284. The oil filter relocation parts are available from Protege Garage, Jegs, Summit, and ebay. We may soon have an aluminum block adapter available (part of the oil filter relocation kit).


Regarding the pan...it really depends upon the type of driving you intend on doing with your car. If you expect mostly straightline driving with little g loading to either side or front/back then there is little chance the oil pick-up will get uncovered and the OE system will most likely be sufficient. If you intend mild g loading that may see minor movement of the oil in the pan then an AWR pan would help. If you expect moderate g loading then I would recommend a pan with a gate system built into it similar to what we run on our race motors to prevent uncovering the oil pickup as the oil sloshes inside the pan.



Hope this helps???

[Circuit]

Definitely does, I vote to add that to your first post so it doesn't get lost in replies.

She is just a daily driver, and does not see any super hard canyon runs since she is so low. So I can probably get away without the AWR pan?

Damn I forgot to check if the motor I got had the MSP girdle with the drain plug already installed... Even thought it is on the opposite side of the motor, I could find somewhere in the front to remote-mount the oil filter to make oil changes easy from the bottom of the car

[Alamo1]

I'm really excited to install this. How do you suggest tapping my P5 girdle since it has those concave sections along it's sides? Should I have someone fill it with weld and then tap it with my NPT or should I tap it first and then weld the fitting in?:confused:

[MP3racer]

I'm really excited to install this. How do you suggest tapping my P5 girdle since it has those concave sections along it's sides? Should I have someone fill it with weld and then tap it with my NPT or should I tap it first and then weld the fitting in?:confused:


Unfortunately, we have not tried this method so I don't have a lot of experience with it. On our race motors we have a bung welded to the pan but it requires adding some sheilding to the inside of the pan. If you can accomplish the fitting on the girdle it will be better than an OE pan because it will be above the oil level and allow better flow back.

The points I would keep in mind are that when having someone weld the aluminum girdle it will be prone to warping in that area (which of course is not good). I know some of the forum members have simply drilled and tapped the existing plate. I would think a competent machine shop should be able to do this without too much trouble?? (whistle)

[shane02pro5]

Can an awr pan be modified to accommodate this gate system? I wish the ext prv setup was available when I swapped in my motor. Still have some topend work to do in the future so when the time comes this is definely on the list. :)


The system is fairly straightforward...if you send in a pump Doc B Racing will service it to bring it up to optimum specs and convert the pump for use of an external PRV.

pump service($100) + external PRV ($130) + average return shipping ($15) = $245

You source oil filter relocation kit and girdle with bung welded on for return line from the external PRV.

There are some pics of the system in #268 of this thread and a diagram of the system in #284. The oil filter relocation parts are available from Protege Garage, Jegs, Summit, and ebay. We may soon have an aluminum block adapter available (part of the oil filter relocation kit).


Regarding the pan...it really depends upon the type of driving you intend on doing with your car. If you expect mostly straightline driving with little g loading to either side or front/back then there is little chance the oil pick-up will get uncovered and the OE system will most likely be sufficient. If you intend mild g loading that may see minor movement of the oil in the pan then an AWR pan would help. If you expect moderate g loading then I would recommend a pan with a gate system built into it similar to what we run on our race motors to prevent uncovering the oil pickup as the oil sloshes inside the pan.



Hope this helps???

[Alamo1]

Unfortunately, we have not tried this method so I don't have a lot of experience with it. On our race motors we have a bung welded to the pan but it requires adding some sheilding to the inside of the pan. If you can accomplish the fitting on the girdle it will be better than an OE pan because it will be above the oil level and allow better flow back.

The points I would keep in mind are that when having someone weld the aluminum girdle it will be prone to warping in that area (which of course is not good). I know some of the forum members have simply drilled and tapped the existing plate. I would think a competent machine shop should be able to do this without too much trouble?? (whistle)

Great! I am supposed to be a competent machine shop! (crazy)

[Maxx Mazda]

Maxx... What made you change from the toga? I trust Tom with my parts and they look good now that I have them back, but why the change if the toga was sufficient?

Anything but this is insufficient for my engine. I ran 24psi on the street last year, and over 30 on race gas.

[MP3racer]

Can an awr pan be modified to accommodate this gate system? I wish the ext prv setup was available when I swapped in my motor. Still have some topend work to do in the future so when the time comes this is definely on the list. :)


Don't get me wrong...the AWR pan is very good for what it was intended for. It does have a variation on the theme of the gates with the directional tabs. However, if you are expecting some real movement of the oil in the pan there is nothing around the bottom of the pan where the head of the pickup sits. Due to the nature of the AWR pan with the upper plate welded in it looks like it might be quite a lot of work to add a gated system. I think it might be easier (and less expensive) to have a pan fabbed like the one we use. (just my 2 cents)


http://www.awrracing.com/store/contents/image.php?image[0]=images/products/PRODEEPSUMPSTD.jpg&

[boostdprotegelx]

well.. start fabbin!!!

[MP3racer]

well.. start fabbin!!!


We have looked at producing pans in the past. Our pan design is rather time intensive and ends up costing more than most are willing to pay for one.

Being able to do your own fabrication work has its advantages.(wink)

As with some of the other parts, if there were enough interest I could look into it again.....

[boostdprotegelx]

We have looked at producing pans in the past. Our pan design is rather time intensive and ends up costing more than most are willing to pay for one.

Being able to do your own fabrication work has its advantages.(wink)

As with some of the other parts, if there were enough interest I could look into it again.....

well.. i'll need a 1 off.. or 2 off pan.. pm me some pricing.. i'll be doing track racing.. but i'm going to be doing a twin charged setup.

i hate that the AWR won't allow me to run my gt spec bar.

[Signature Sound]

I'm really excited to install this. How do you suggest tapping my P5 girdle since it has those concave sections along it's sides? Should I have someone fill it with weld and then tap it with my NPT or should I tap it first and then weld the fitting in?:confused:


The way I did mine was drilled a 1/2" hole in the MBSP. The hole is off set to the fitting that was already in my AWR pan so the connections would not inerfere with each other. I purchased an AN-10 weld fitting and took it to a guy that builds chassis for drag cars so he could tig weld it for me. He made a deflector shield so when the oil goes thru, it stays away from the crank area. He did all that for only $40. Good price in my opinion.

The concave makes it harder, but in no way impossible. If anything, the trick is to shape the fitting to match the curves before it gets welded. I suggest a bung because if you just tap the plate, you will have issues with leaks because there is nothing for it to seat against.

[MP3racer]

The way I did mine was drilled a 1/2" hole in the MBSP. The hole is off set to the fitting that was already in my AWR pan so the connections would not inerfere with each other. I purchased an AN-10 weld fitting and took it to a guy that builds chassis for drag cars so he could tig weld it for me. He made a deflector shield so when the oil goes thru, it stays away from the crank area. He did all that for only $40. Good price in my opinion.

The concave makes it harder, but in no way impossible. If anything, the trick is to shape the fitting to match the curves before it gets welded. I suggest a bung because if you just tap the plate, you will have issues with leaks because there is nothing for it to seat against.

Well...there you go from someone who has done it!! Thanks Signature Sound(cool) This forum is great with even greater members!!

[mp3-79bronco]

ok i have a oil pump with like 30k and i really dont wanna spend 100 bucks on the pump service? how much just to make it unregulated or whatever?

[MP3racer]

ok i have a oil pump with like 30k and i really dont wanna spend 100 bucks on the pump service? how much just to make it unregulated or whatever?

To make it externally regualted you will need some type of system such as our external regulator to regualte your oil pressure. If you purchase a regulator from us ($130) I will convert your pump for $10 (plus return shipping). If you only want your pump converted and will be supplying your own regulator then the service is $25 (plus return shipping).

[big Lou]

Well worth the money! In my opinion!

[mp3-79bronco]

awesome thats what i was looking for. how hard is it to tune the regulator? and is it a specific one or is there a cheaper one that will work for a mild protege

[big Lou]

I would just go with the peterson one from Doc B. A little expensive but, extremely easy to tune and accurate.

[sandspeed]

pm sent.

[Signature Sound]

here are some photos of my system. BigLou is absolutely right about how easy it is to tune. relocating the oil filter is a must for our car. plus the extra capacity is nice.

the Setrab oil cooler is mounted in the passenger wheel well, where the wiper fluid tanks USED to be.

I decided to go with the bigger AN -12 oil lines and fittings. I am here to prove that pressure is NOT an issue with the coating treatment. I can run well over 90 psi oil pressure at 5000 rpm! didnt do it on purpose.

the huge peterson oil filter kit is working very well. its a reuseable stainless mesh filter that will eventually pay for itself. easy to clean and get to.

anyone even thinking about turbo-ing their ride better do this mod now, or pay big time later like I did.

[big Lou]

here are some photos of my system. BigLou is absolutely right about how easy it is to tune. relocating the oil filter is a must for our car. plus the extra capacity is nice.

the Setrab oil cooler is mounted in the passenger wheel well, where the wiper fluid tanks USED to be.

I decided to go with the bigger AN -12 oil lines and fittings. I am here to prove that pressure is NOT an issue with the coating treatment. I can run well over 90 psi oil pressure at 5000 rpm! didnt do it on purpose.

the huge peterson oil filter kit is working very well. its a reuseable stainless mesh filter that will eventually pay for itself. easy to clean and get to.

anyone even thinking about turbo-ing their ride better do this mod now, or pay big time later like I did.

Two Word's, FUCKING SEXY!!

[pw~mp5]

here are some photos of my system. BigLou is absolutely right about how easy it is to tune. relocating the oil filter is a must for our car. plus the extra capacity is nice.

the Setrab oil cooler is mounted in the passenger wheel well, where the wiper fluid tanks USED to be.

I decided to go with the bigger AN -12 oil lines and fittings. I am here to prove that pressure is NOT an issue with the coating treatment. I can run well over 90 psi oil pressure at 5000 rpm! didnt do it on purpose.

the huge peterson oil filter kit is working very well. its a reuseable stainless mesh filter that will eventually pay for itself. easy to clean and get to.

anyone even thinking about turbo-ing their ride better do this mod now, or pay big time later like I did.

Signature Sound I like your setup.
Did you just delete the wiper fluid tank or did you relocate it? I notice there are holes in front of the cooler, did you have to make those? How is air flow in the fender well? Are you still running the fog lights?

[boostdprotegelx]

here are some photos of my system. BigLou is absolutely right about how easy it is to tune. relocating the oil filter is a must for our car. plus the extra capacity is nice.

the Setrab oil cooler is mounted in the passenger wheel well, where the wiper fluid tanks USED to be.

I decided to go with the bigger AN -12 oil lines and fittings. I am here to prove that pressure is NOT an issue with the coating treatment. I can run well over 90 psi oil pressure at 5000 rpm! didnt do it on purpose.

the huge peterson oil filter kit is working very well. its a reuseable stainless mesh filter that will eventually pay for itself. easy to clean and get to.

anyone even thinking about turbo-ing their ride better do this mod now, or pay big time later like I did.
baller dude. i'm excited for this. i need to buy it.. they make reusable oil filters for my busa. which i'm excited for... but do they make that kinda thing for our car? cu i'm looking for a spin on reusable filter.

[Signature Sound]

Two Word's, FUCKING SEXY!!

Thanks. Can't wait to see what you got going on over there.

[big Lou]

I really need to start a build thread. lol I need to update everything ive bought so many new things.

[Signature Sound]

Signature Sound I like your setup.
Did you just delete the wiper fluid tank or did you relocate it? I notice there are holes in front of the cooler, did you have to make those? How is air flow in the fender well? Are you still running the fog lights?

I deleted the fog lights and wiper tanks, but there is room for both depending on oil cooler size. On the drivers side I used my old AEM CAI for a ram air into the new intake. On the passenger side I am using a straight 3" pipe to direct air to the oil cooler. The holes drilled behind the oil cooler allow the air to flow thru. I just used a step drill bit for that.

The new coated pump and regulator is definitely the lifeline of the whole motor. Be sure to get a gauge with this setup, if u don't already have one. U wont be able to set it up without one.

[FlyinHawaiian]

Okay, I've been through 3 NA motors in a Protege and am DEATHLY afraid of blowing the motor in my MSP. From what I read, getting the oil pump coated/bypass valve, along with a new oil pan and pressure regulator should help prevent me from blowing it up if I decided to do a track day or two per year. Is this accurate or did I miss what was going on in this thread? Seems like spending the $500 now will prevent me from spending the $3000 later... lol

[richs970]

So I'm in the process of setting up a turbo build for my P5 (70k mi). I just read all 32 pages of this thread and it seems like the system setup is real sensible, even for someone who probably isn't going to the track at all.

I know a lot of this was probably answered, but my lack of experience and 32 pages left me with some questions....

1. If I use the typical setup discussed here, what is the best way to tap the oil feed for the turbo. Is it the T connection similar to the OEM MSP setup that has been mentioned (seen it discussed elsewhere), or is there an easier way to tap into this system. It's my understanding that neither sandwich plate nor filter relocation leaves any extra outlets?? Oil sender lines can tap into other locations on the block?

2. If I'm tapping into the oil pan for the turbo return, it makes sense to tap into it a second time for this obviously. But do I have to remove the engine to do this. I was under the impression I could remove the pan without removing the engine, tap it, and put it back on.

3. If I bought a new pump, had it treated, and replaced my old one (since i can't have the car sidelined for 6 weeks or more), will I be able to do this without removing the engine? I got mixed answers when I looked back.

Sorry if these quesitons are a little dumb lol, and thanks in advance for any help.

[Maxx Mazda]

2. You need to remove the transmission to remove the support plate, but not the engine. There are two little 10mm bolts inside the transmission housing that need to come off.

[MP3racer]

So I'm in the process of setting up a turbo build for my P5 (70k mi). I just read all 32 pages of this thread and it seems like the system setup is real sensible, even for someone who probably isn't going to the track at all.

I know a lot of this was probably answered, but my lack of experience and 32 pages left me with some questions....

1. If I use the typical setup discussed here, what is the best way to tap the oil feed for the turbo. Is it the T connection similar to the OEM MSP setup that has been mentioned (seen it discussed elsewhere), or is there an easier way to tap into this system. It's my understanding that neither sandwich plate nor filter relocation leaves any extra outlets?? Oil sender lines can tap into other locations on the block?

2. If I'm tapping into the oil pan for the turbo return, it makes sense to tap into it a second time for this obviously. But do I have to remove the engine to do this. I was under the impression I could remove the pan without removing the engine, tap it, and put it back on.

3. If I bought a new pump, had it treated, and replaced my old one (since i can't have the car sidelined for 6 weeks or more), will I be able to do this without removing the engine? I got mixed answers when I looked back.

Sorry if these quesitons are a little dumb lol, and thanks in advance for any help.


1.) Most of the research I have seen from turbo manufacturers they prefer the oil supply for the turbo to come from the oil pressure sending unit port on the block. Also most of the serious engine builders agree that the most accurate oil pressure readings also come from this same port requiring the "T" that Mazda used OEM.

2.) Yes if you are only removing the pan you should be able to do this without removing the engine. However, if you want to remove the aluminum girdle under it you will need to at least remove the tranny as Maxx Mazda mentioned.

3.) While I have not done this myself, I have heard it is "possible". To accomplish this the aluminum girdle is best to be removed as well. I know that some aftermarket service manuals say that the oil pump can be changed with the girdle in place but I would think the gasket surface between the bottom of the oil pump and the top of the girdle would be difficult to maintain a good thickness of RTV.

[CustomMSP]

Hey guys,

The new engine is alive with the coated oil pump! I'm seeing about the same oil pressure as with the OE pump if anybody is curious to know.

[MP3racer]

Hey guys,

The new engine is alive with the coated oil pump! I'm seeing about the same oil pressure as with the OE pump if anybody is curious to know.


Correct me if I'm wrong but you are not using the whole system. You only have a coated (or blueprinted) oil pump without an external PRV.

Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of the conditions when you state "seeing about the same oil pressure".

[CustomMSP]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you are not using the whole system. You only have a coated (or blueprinted) oil pump without an external PRV.

Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of the conditions when you state "seeing about the same oil pressure".

Yes, my apology! I have just the coated oil pump.

[MP3racer]

Yes, my apology! I have just the coated oil pump.


Hey, no problem...just wanted to make sure it was clear (thought)

With just the coated pump you should see a slight increase in your oil pressure across the board if you are using exactly the same oil weight and type as the pump will work closer to the intended specs

[Packerfan]

Hey whats up guys glad to say I am still running Docs system and to be honest its the best upgrade I have done to this money pit of a car to build. LOL. Consistent 10psi per thousand RPM up to redline. As for the tranny removal there is a write up somewhere on here with pics of where you can drill the bell housing to access those 10mm bolts with a 1/4 drive 10mm socket with a 12 inch ext.I have done it and once you drill the holes (2) you can use a flashlight to see the bolts. THANKS DOC

[Circuit]

But don't you get the shavings inside the trans then?!?

[boostdprotegelx]

But don't you get the shavings inside the trans then?!?

no. jjust on the inside of the bellhousing. where the flywheel is.. and i HIGHLY doubt it to be that bad.

[Packerfan]

Its only aluminum and if you drill slowly nothing should get inside not that it would matter.

[richs970]

Actually Focus told me the exact same thing. I wonder if I can find that write up. If anyone knows where it is LMK. I got a hold of a tapped upper oil pan, and I noticed in the manual that those two bolts were under the trans housing.


Its only aluminum and if you drill slowly nothing should get inside not that it would matter.

[MP3racer]

Hey whats up guys glad to say I am still running Docs system and to be honest its the best upgrade I have done to this money pit of a car to build. LOL. Consistent 10psi per thousand RPM up to redline. As for the tranny removal there is a write up somewhere on here with pics of where you can drill the bell housing to access those 10mm bolts with a 1/4 drive 10mm socket with a 12 inch ext.I have done it and once you drill the holes (2) you can use a flashlight to see the bolts. THANKS DOC


Packerfan...great to hear from you!!(2thumbs)

Glad to hear that the system is still working and thanks for the good words!!

For all those that don't know we developed the system on our in-house race car and have taken the longevity of the race motors and bearings from less than three hours capability to over two seasons worth of use!

Thanks Packerfan for the write-up on the bellhousing modification. Should help those looking at installing the system without removing the motor.

[vinnie mack]

i second the notion of finding the thread of where to drill into the bell housing... anyone? I searched but found nothing.

[richs970]

i second the notion of finding the thread of where to drill into the bell housing... anyone? I searched but found nothing.

I did find this one.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4864732&highlight=bell+housing#post4864732

One of the members was saying that some engines (maybe 03.5) come with the holes predrilled in the bell housing and plugged. I've looked at my P5 though, and there are definitely no predrilled holes. Either way, this thread will at least point out their location. Luckily I have a whole separate upper oil pan, so I can use that to make sure I drill in the right place. Most people don't have that luxury I guess.

I'll have to post a little how-to if I can get it done correctly.

[vinnie mack]

hmmm i have an 03.5 but it probably depends on build date. Once i get mine up in the air i will be crossing my fingers for those holes to be there.

thanks for the thread link,

[Crazee D]

OK, plumbing and install questions!

A. Do we have install instructions? Have we determined if it can be completed while engine remains installed?

B. I need to figure out how to plumb the ext PRV along with filter relocate and possibly a cooler if I can find a place to mount it too.

From what I recall, bypass and relocate are -10 lines

so Oil path out of bypass goes:
1. To external PRV (with return to oil pan) then
2. To the oil filter
3. Thermostat switch before return to block OR
4. To oil cooler when operating temp is reached then
5. back to block via return ("T" off thermostat??)

I need to get lines and fittings for all this craziness. How much overall length would be reasonable to order? I am looking at braided lines by the foot.

Oh, and a part number for an oil pump gasket?

[Maxx Mazda]

A. It can be done, but it would damn near be faster and easier to take the engine out. You need to drop that side of the engine anyway or you can't get the timing belt pulley off. Good luck trying to re-time the engine with it still in the car.

Gasket Mazda part number: 8527-77-739

[Signature Sound]

B: I think it would be wise to have the filter last in the system. Your motor is what needs to be protected the most. Check out my profile. There are a ton of photos of the system in there. I chose to use a stainless Peterson filter. They are washable and way bigger so capacity is increased. Moroso makes a very nice block off adapter.

You have the option for AN-12 lines with the PRV. I chose to go with them but it is a pain in the ass to convert the block off. The block off has BPT thread to flare AN-10. The -10 is plenty big enough but the pump is DEFINITELY strong to push thru -12.

So my suggestion would be from block off out to PRV in. PRV out to thermostat. Thermostat to oil cooler in. Oil cooler out to oil filter in. Oil filter out to engine. And of course PRV return to oil pan or MBSP.

All of us with this system agree that this is a necessity for our motors.

[Packerfan]

A. It can be done, but it would damn near be faster and easier to take the engine out. You need to drop that side of the engine anyway or you can't get the timing belt pulley off. Good luck trying to re-time the engine with it still in the car.

Gasket Mazda part number: 8527-77-739

Maybe in your world it would be. LOL Not that bad a job anyone doing this now should be doing a timing belt by now anyway.