reworked stock turbo

[palerider]

Lets talk about a reworked stock turbo.

Lets just say Ive got turbos on my mind.... and I havent heard enough about bigger wheels, port and polishs, larger wastegates and all that is possible on what we already have.

A member here... cmescoot... has got one done by modern performance inc, I think. CPE has been talking about doing one. I know some other members have been in communication about it with some folks. And Ive got guys local that could probably do the job.....

Who wants to speak first? Whats possible here?

[laloosh]

pming u right now(outie)

[GoFast]

pm?! share the info!

[winniep]

I would be VERY interested in this option.................... so after you ladies gossip, could you share the wealth of info?











j/k about the "ladies and "gossip" comment. Couldn't resist :)

[shadrag]

Aw, I wanted to hear too (sad1)

[numbnuts22715]

Yeah, Id like to hear too.
A bigger turbo would be cooler. I know daily driving a turbo'd car with fast spool is fun,but its also fun for there to be a bit of lag, then when you get on it you can really feel a difference and you can just rip it.

[laloosh]

trust once the compnay is ready, you guys will know everything there is to know about it

[palerider]

Yeah, Id like to hear too.
A bigger turbo would be cooler. I know daily driving a turbo'd car with fast spool is fun,but its also fun for there to be a bit of lag, then when you get on it you can really feel a difference and you can just rip it.

amen... I think with a tubular manifold, on the gt3071, we could only lose a couple hundred rpm spool over the stock setup. Just enough for traction and dd, without making it a laggy slut.

Modern Performance who did cmescoots turbo is claiming that its now efficient up to 400 hp. Does this seem possible? Thats like 80-90 hp gain... and seems unreasonable.

[palerider]

18 minutes just passed from the time I mentioned that a vendor is claiming a reworked stock turbo, available now.... could make up to 400 hp.... and no responses?

somebody say wow or bullshit or something godammit

[shadrag]

Well, typically from what I've heard, whatever they do to rework it usually results in a trade of low end for high end.

I kinda doubt getting 400hp out of the stocker.

[enganear]

18 minutes just passed from the time I mentioned that a vendor is claiming a reworked stock turbo, available now.... could make up to 400 hp.... and no responses?

somebody say wow or bullshit or something godammit

Well, I am sure it is possible to make enough power to find the weakest link in the driveline and I imagine it is somewhere under 400hp.(weakest)

Probably facing an FWD limitation as well.

That said, I hope somebody does it!(drive2)
-enganear

[clos561]

18 minutes just passed from the time I mentioned that a vendor is claiming a reworked stock turbo, available now.... could make up to 400 hp.... and no responses?

somebody say wow or bullshit or something godammit

Wow, BULLSHIT :)

[RonTonkinMazda]

last i heard ptp was working on something like a big wheel

[Captain KRM P5]

Modern Performance's turbo work is very good. We've got a turbo coming to us thanks to mrlilguy which we will be re-working in a similar vein.

[cmescoot]

I wish i could show you a slip. Unfortunately, I am still waiting for my manifold and fuel pump from PG. (I think I share the same anxiety with many here).
With all of my mods and a good tune, my main concern is going to be the rods....and of course the clutch. From what I have been told by Jordan at CP-E and Nick at Modern Performance Inc, my "new" snail will only have about a 400rpm lag and will be capable of just over 400hp. I dont think I will push that number until the new rods are in for obvious reasons. The methanol will help preserve my motor but lets face it...on our fwd car, 400 will be too much anyway. Again, my car has been on my lift since early october and I wont have any solid numbers until I head to Atlanta for my tune, but I hope to give any other speed3's a run for their money. I figure if Jordan refered me to Modern Performance (we all consider Jordan as the "Yoda" of the speed3) then the work must be top notch. I would love to hear all logical feedback and bench racing tips while I wait indefinetely for my parts to come in.
I look forward to hearing back from you.
Jay

[ericrapp]

This seems to be the logical next step. I'm sure sure I would trade some on the bottom to gain some breathing up top. Very interested in the progress you all make on this. But I'll have to agree the mechanical limits at 400hp will rear their ugly heads. Best luck Share when ready please Ps very late, Wow and bullshit

[Ryz]

18 minutes just passed from the time I mentioned that a vendor is claiming a reworked stock turbo, available now.... could make up to 400 hp.... and no responses?

somebody say wow or bullshit or something godammit

something godammint, do I get a cookie?

[palerider]

something godammint, do I get a cookie?

How about a Bobba Fett cookie jar.... filled with LOTS of cookies!!!!

http://www.geekalerts.com/u/bf-cookie.jpg

[Captain KRM P5]

i have a boba fett helmet in my closet. i will fill it with cookies and send it to Ryz.

[mrlilguy157]

i have a boba fett helmet in my closet. i will fill it with cookies and send it to Ryz.

lol at starwars nerdz x2

When I was younger (10 or 12) my brother and I had a 4minute light saber fight routine all over the living room, jumping off of couches and etc. Those were the days.

My feeling on turbos at this point:

I'm going bigger, no doubt about it. Ken has something in mind for the stocker I sent him and that is awesome. I wouldn't mind finding something that utilizes the stock downpipe flange, because it would be cheaper and more practical for all of the guys that already have aftermarket downpipes, and thats exactly what Ken at PG has in mind too (as far as I know)

I plan on getting something that can put down near 350-370whp with all supporting mods (I/C, dp/midpipe, intake) at under 22psi or so. I don't mind lag at all, I'd prefer it. As palerider said, the lag is actually a nice gift to the tires. I just replaced my potenzas (got in may 07) at christmas time 2007. they were bald. Now my 912 all seasons aren't lookin good in the front either. I drive too hard too much. The cold weather doesnt help them stick either, instead they just heat up and burn rubber on top of the surface.

Anyways, I'm sold on the 3071r, but don't wanna limit myself for the future, so I think the 3076r would be a better choice for me. Maybe 400rpm later spool when I've got the 3" DP and PG exhaust manifold? I plan on getting a 1949-1953 Chevrolet Deluxe Cab 3100 truck out of school for a daily, and have the mspeed as the grocery getter and night time fun car.

So a spool time of 4k or so? I can live with that. Pushing under 18psi, with no map clamp, even better, less fooling of the ECU.

The top end of the power band will be taken care of eventually (throttle plate closing) by Cobb, CP-E, Xede ProCede system maybe, or maybe what Nutari's 'standalone interest' thread has to offer, if not someone else behind the scenes at this point. I have ideas and am working with a company on my own time to try and figure out what parameters the ECU is seeing to close the throttle, to see if there is a simple fix.

Conclusion:

Bigger is better, but not 35r bigger. I think (know) the 3071r and 3076r are the best turbos available for the car at this point. If you're not going to build the bottom end, go with the 3071r. if you are, or are considering it, go with the 3076r. Both setups will be very streetable. The sucky ECU will be reprogrammed eventually (time is all thats against it), and a the fueling is fixed, and there are forged motor options out there. ATP offers these solutions with a propietary flange setup to force consumes to buy their downpipe (good marketing idea), yet it sucks at the same time. If something is to come relatively quickly with the same sized setup on a stock exhaust flange, you can bet I'll be on that.

Until then, I'm sold with ATP's 3071 or 3076r setups. (usa)

[Ryz]

i have a boba fett helmet in my closet. i will fill it with cookies and send it to Ryz.


Gimme, gimme.

[driver311]

lol at starwars nerdz x2

When I was younger (10 or 12) my brother and I had a 4minute light saber fight routine all over the living room, jumping off of couches and etc. Those were the days.

My feeling on turbos at this point:

I'm going bigger, no doubt about it. Ken has something in mind for the stocker I sent him and that is awesome. I wouldn't mind finding something that utilizes the stock downpipe flange, because it would be cheaper and more practical for all of the guys that already have aftermarket downpipes, and thats exactly what Ken at PG has in mind too (as far as I know)

I plan on getting something that can put down near 350-370whp with all supporting mods (I/C, dp/midpipe, intake) at under 22psi or so. I don't mind lag at all, I'd prefer it. As palerider said, the lag is actually a nice gift to the tires. I just replaced my potenzas (got in may 07) at christmas time 2007. they were bald. Now my 912 all seasons aren't lookin good in the front either. I drive too hard too much. The cold weather doesnt help them stick either, instead they just heat up and burn rubber on top of the surface.

Anyways, I'm sold on the 3071r, but don't wanna limit myself for the future, so I think the 3076r would be a better choice for me. Maybe 400rpm later spool when I've got the 3" DP and PG exhaust manifold? I plan on getting a 1949-1953 Chevrolet Deluxe Cab 3100 truck out of school for a daily, and have the mspeed as the grocery getter and night time fun car.

So a spool time of 4k or so? I can live with that. Pushing under 18psi, with no map clamp, even better, less fooling of the ECU.

The top end of the power band will be taken care of eventually (throttle plate closing) by Cobb, CP-E, Xede ProCede system maybe, or maybe what Nutari's 'standalone interest' thread has to offer, if not someone else behind the scenes at this point. I have ideas and am working with a company on my own time to try and figure out what parameters the ECU is seeing to close the throttle, to see if there is a simple fix.

Conclusion:

Bigger is better, but not 35r bigger. I think (know) the 3071r and 3076r are the best turbos available for the car at this point. If you're not going to build the bottom end, go with the 3071r. if you are, or are considering it, go with the 3076r. Both setups will be very streetable. The sucky ECU will be reprogrammed eventually (time is all thats against it), and a the fueling is fixed, and there are forged motor options out there. ATP offers these solutions with a propietary flange setup to force consumes to buy their downpipe (good marketing idea), yet it sucks at the same time. If something is to come relatively quickly with the same sized setup on a stock exhaust flange, you can bet I'll be on that.

Until then, I'm sold with ATP's 3071 or 3076r setups. (usa)


3076r is not a good turbo for this car. If anything a 2871r should be first choice and the 3071r should be the choice for people who dont mind lag and are planning on going over 400whp. Im telling your right now from experience the 3076 r is just to laggy and doesnt make good power until your over the 22psi level. Ive done that turbo on two different cars and the 50trim just always spooled better and made more power pound for pound under 25psi. Plain and simple. The 3071r is just a little bit smaller than the 50trim and spools harder. Great choice for people wanting big power. You can hit 450whp with this turbo. If your looking for 400whp being your max go 2871. if your looking for around 350whp, go big wheel stock turbo. Thats what im going with. Hopefully Ken or John gets on the ball and puts one in my ride soon. LOL

[ericrapp]

When the turbo comes on later it 'lag' aren't you just postponing the wheelspin a 2 stage boost controller might be helpful? But good point about throttle plate, is this the tuning gremlin that wont allow it to run power to redline? I am aware there is my involved than just the one piece of the puzzle 157. But it seems this issue will need to be overcome regardless of how you approach your tuning? Good luck with more turbo!

[palerider]

The 3071r is just a little bit smaller than the 50trim and spools harder. Great choice for people

Is this true? I thought the 50 trim was smaller than the 3071r.

[dkswim]

subscribed

[driver311]

Is this true? I thought the 50 trim was smaller than the 3071r.


3071r is a little bit smaller. This breaks them down in what they flow for air in lbs. per. min.

stock turbo around 35-38lbs.
2871r flows around 45lbs.
3071r flows around 47lbs.
50trim flows around 49lbs.
3076r flows around 53lbs.

[redspeed]

3071r is a little bit smaller. This breaks them down in what they flow for air in lbs. per. min.

stock turbo around 35-38lbs.
2871r flows around 45lbs.
3071r flows around 47lbs.
50trim flows around 49lbs.
3076r flows around 53lbs.

How is the lag on the 2871, if any? What about the 2876r?

I'm starting to agree with some people in here, that think we need some lag. The stock turbo is really good for torque, but that is the reason we're frying the front tires in 1st & 2nd.

[shadrag]

Later spool and lag are two different things.

[driver311]

Later spool and lag are two different things.

Exactly. Even the 2871r is gonna slow down the spool time. Even the big wheel upgrade will help wiht the turbo spooling to fast and aggressively.

[mrlilguy157]

?

we'll see. I'm still on the fence at this point. the precision 3076r we used on a 1.8l gti at 20psi was pretty balls out with a leaky log exhaust manifold (needed to be decked). with the extra .5L present in the disi motor, i'd be happy with it... I don't know. I haven't figured out my goals with this car yet. to build the motor or not...... I'll be onboard with AT LEAST at 3071r.

[ericrapp]

subscribed, keep this one alive fellas

[ms3guy22]

mrlilguy, as i was asking myself....maybe i should buy that turbo and see if somebody would port and polish it form me? Only to find out that now its gone.

[mrlilguy157]

mrlilguy, as i was asking myself....maybe i should buy that turbo and see if somebody would port and polish it form me? Only to find out that now its gone.

:D sorries.

the block looks like it may be gone soon too. I'm willing to forge it and ship for $3360 paypal'd. That covers the fees and shipping ~ $3250 NET COST

[palerider]

3071r is a little bit smaller. This breaks them down in what they flow for air in lbs. per. min.

stock turbo around 35-38lbs.
2871r flows around 45lbs.
3071r flows around 47lbs.
50trim flows around 49lbs.
3076r flows around 53lbs.

Thank you.... intersting. And I guess a reworked stocker would be around 40-41? I like the 3071.

What kind of power will I make at 15-16 psi with the 3071?

[mrlilguy157]

600whp

[palerider]

600whp

Man dont screw with me tonight. Im not in the mood...(argh)

I think 15psi was where Ken tuned their ms6 to 329.

[palerider]

Modern Performance's turbo work is very good. We've got a turbo coming to us thanks to mrlilguy which we will be re-working in a similar vein.

Are these guys in Houston, Texas?

[winniep]

I think it is a different MP................. I think the MP we are talking about is in Kentucky or Virginia/Carolinas area. Or at least somewhere that is not Texas.....

[Dream]

Later spool and lag are two different things.
(uhm)

[numbnuts22715]

I think it is a different MP................. I think the MP we are talking about is in Kentucky or Virginia/Carolinas area. Or at least somewhere that is not Texas.....

I believe its new jersey.
Its modern performance inc. that does these turbo upgrades.
hopefully ken or somebody comes out with something new, and pretty fast.

[mrlilguy157]

Man dont screw with me tonight. Im not in the mood...(argh)

I think 15psi was where Ken tuned their ms6 to 329.

yes sir. (yupnope) :D i thought they were near 22psi though? I dont know. I'll have to digg up that thread. good question in all seriousness


(uhm)

answering with quote from a site i found right quick:

Lag

A lag is sometimes felt by the driver of a turbocharged vehicle as a delay between pushing on the accelerator pedal and feeling the turbo kick-in. This is symptomatic of the time taken for the exhaust system driving the turbine to come to high pressure and for the turbine rotor to overcome its rotational inertia and reach the speed necessary to supply boost pressure. The directly-driven compressor in a supercharger does not suffer this problem. Conversely on light loads or at low RPM a turbocharger supplies less boost and the engine is more efficient than a supercharged engine.

Lag can be reduced by reducing the rotational inertia of the turbine, for example by using lighter parts to allow the spin-up to happen more quickly. Ceramic turbines are a big help in this direction. Another way to reduce lag is to change the aspect ratio of the turbine by reducing the diameter and increasing the gas-flow path-length. Increasing the upper-deck air pressure and improving the wastegate response help but there are cost increases and reliability disadvantages that car manufacturers are not happy about. Lag is also reduced by using a precision bearing rather than a fluid bearing, this reduces friction rather than rotational inertia but contributes to faster acceleration of the turbo's rotating assembly.

Some car makers combat lag by using two small turbos (like Toyota, Maserati and Audi). A typical arrangement for this is to have one turbo active across the entire rev range of the engine and one coming on-line at higher RPM. Being such small units they do not suffer from excessive lag and having the second turbo operating at a higher RPM range allows it to get to full rotational speed before it is required.

Lag is not to be confused with the turbo spooling up, however many publications still make this basic mistake. The spool-up time of a turbo system describes the minimum turbo RPM at which the turbo is physically able to supply the requested boost level. Newer turbocharger and engine developments have caused spool-times to steadily decline to where day-to-day use feels perfectly natural. Putting your foot down at 1200 engine rpm and having no boost until 2000 rpm is spool-up and not lag.


I believe its new jersey.
Its modern performance inc. that does these turbo upgrades.
hopefully ken or somebody comes out with something new, and pretty fast.

I'll let Ken disclose that information when he's ready to. Cool?

[Captain KRM P5]

I believe its new jersey.
Its modern performance inc. that does these turbo upgrades.
hopefully ken or somebody comes out with something new, and pretty fast.

yes. if you want to contact him now, his name is Nick at Modern Performance in West Long Branch, NJ. he is not big on forum or internet advertising these days but he'll do the work.

we'll have our gameplan worked out here this week if people want to play ball with me.

[palerider]

yes sir. (yupnope) :D i thought they were near 22psi though? I dont know. I'll have to digg up that thread. good question in all seriousness



18 psi....... 329whp / 394 trq..... with gt3071r. They ran out of fuel after.

[driver311]

18 psi....... 329whp / 394 trq..... with gt3071r. They ran out of fuel after.

On the ms3 that would be around 350-360whp on 18psi. Perfect for daily driving and then turn it up a notch at the track on 22psi and some 110 octane gas 400whp would be a hoot!

[trufanatic]

someone just needs to hurry up and put a damn kit together. im gettin impatient.

Upgrading the stock will be a nice thing but i havent seen any concerned about the EGTs going thru the roof with higher boost pressure on a modded stocker. Just a little thing we use to run into in my SRT days. please discuss

[Captain KRM P5]

i got off the phone with a shop today that specializes in KKK and Hitachi Warner turbo upgrades. they will be taking measurements this week of the turbo supplied by mrlilguy.

[nypest]

i got off the phone with a shop today that specializes in KKK and Hitachi Warner turbo upgrades. they will be taking measurements this week of the turbo supplied by mrlilguy.

(cool) just what im looking 4

[ms3guy22]

if the turbo gets reworked, that intails new seals and such so we don't have to get our shitty stock one replaced under warranty

[dkswim]

my understanding lag is caused by a combanation of insuficient gas flow at low rpm, inertia, and mechanicle loss. isnuficent gas flow is the biggest contrubiter to lag

[mrlilguy157]

well, in about 3 weeks i'll have another turbo for sale if anybody is curious.

[palerider]

well, in about 3 weeks i'll have another turbo for sale if anybody is curious.

My turbo is smoking it up like Bob Marley... but since you're making shameless offers to the public with no pics....mine will be available too:)

Im sure it would make a nice "reworked turbo". Just with a little less brain cells....lol

[mrlilguy157]

My turbo is smoking it up like Bob Marley... but since you're making shameless offers to the public with no pics....mine will be available too:)

Im sure it would make a nice "reworked turbo". Just with a little less brain cells....lol


ha! you're crazy. check your PMs ;D

[driver311]

I have both of your turbos sold, pm sent!