Need Help And A New Engine

[Flagship]

I'm fucked. Just got a call back from the shop and apparently I've got at least one bad rod bearing. They say it calls for a new engine. They found one with 41k mi with a few extras. $4100 for engine and installation. Does this sound kosher to you guys?

Thanks,
-Frank

[Flash5]

I know ken at protege garage sells engines, he should be able to tell you whether thats a good deal or not.

[CTt3P5]

That sux....but Ken at PG does sell used engines for $999. I forget the mileage, but you can add $100 or so to get a lower mileage engine. Definitely worth talking to him.

[ksteele38]

Sorry to hear this.

check u-pull-it yards for used motor. We have yard that you can pull yourself or they will for $125.00

$4100.00 should buy more than that.

[808MP5]

i think thats a rip off. According to the book for a motor swap its 14 hours at what ever labor charges. A motor can be had for under $1500. I got lucky and scored a 14k longblock for $400 and i paid $1680 for installation that included all new gaskets, waterpump, oil pump, ps drive axle, swapped over cams, header, intake manifold, new front/rear main seals, plus some other stuff.

[icespeed]

I'm fucked. Just got a call back from the shop and apparently I've got at least one bad rod bearing. They say it calls for a new engine. They found one with 41k mi with a few extras. $4100 for engine and installation. Does this sound kosher to you guys?

Thanks,
-Frank

That sounds about right from a dealership. 14 hours @ ~$100.00/hr is $1400.00. Figure they added 3 hours to "find" the engine, another $300.00. That leaves $2400.00 for the long block.

You can definately do better than that! Talk with Ken at protegarage. He'll be able to help.

[neox.286]

why dont they resurface that one rod to use a thicker bearing?

its gotta be a lot cheaper to pull off the bottom of the motor, resurface the crank, and machine the one rod out to slightly larger for a thicker bearing

hell, it would be cheaper to just go forged than buy a whole new motor...

I love how shops see a problem like that and just want to throw the whole motor out....it really isnt that hard to just repair the motor in most cases....granted this situation might be different, but it is something to look into

[Flagship]

I don't know how they could have even figured out it was a bearing... they only had it for about an hour before they called and I'm sure it wasn't the only work they had to do. Is there even a test to figure this out or do they have to pull the engine apart and visually inspect? If the latter is the answer, they're just guessing. I can hear clicking, the exhaust sounds a bit garbully, I'm burning oil like Saddam, and I've lost some power. Can a jacked bearing even cause all this?

[icespeed]

clicking noise is from the crank walking. One of the cranks has play and the noise is a rod slapping against the wall of the block. It's better to go with another shortblock. In all likelihood, a rod is already bent and there is a pressure drop because of this. That is the less performance. The burning oil is probably oil seeping through past the rings (probably blew those out too) up into the combustion chamber. All-in-all, it's easier (more expensive, but easier) to just put a new block in there (well, newer, doesn't have to be brand new).

[808MP5]

a jacked rod bearing caused me to burn oil, lose power, and in the end two holes in my block = blown motor

[icespeed]

a jacked rod bearing caused me to burn oil, lose power, and in the end two holes in my block = blown motor

didn't want to mention the blown block part to him..... but i definately know what that's like :(

[neox.286]

ok
I thought they actually knew the bearing was bad....if that was the case Id say just resurface the rods

if its crank walk it is probably way too much work in that case

if they found that to be the issue after an hour then I would not use them to replace the short block because that sounds like they are a bunch of lazy f***s that just want to screw you over...

[icespeed]

ok
I thought they actually knew the bearing was bad....if that was the case Id say just resurface the rods

if its crank walk it is probably way too much work in that case

if they found that to be the issue after an hour then I would not use them to replace the short block because that sounds like they are a bunch of lazy f***s that just want to screw you over...

lol, that's why they've acquired the name "stealership"!

From what I understand, when you throw a main bearing, it automatically means that the crank is walking. The small gap where the bearing used to be is allowing the crank to move laterally and vertically. Maybe I'm using the wrong term when I say crankwalk. This "play" in the crank throws everything into a vibrational nightmare. I do know this, though, without a bearing there, the crank is eating up the main cap and the main cap is eating up the crank.

[jhillzoom]

That sucks dude! I hate to see a good car go bad. I wish you luck sir!

[neox.286]

yea, if its a main bearing then its gonna be easier to replace the short block

however, they are saying its a rod bearing....in which case it is common to just machine it to use a thicker bearing

buuuut, if they know its a rod bearing after an hour of probably just listening to it then it is probably not correct (its not that quick to tear down this motor in an hour....I'm pretty quick at it now as Ive done it quite a few times with the FS and my best is about 2 hours to be pulling the bottom of the rod off to see the bearings)

lol, mazda techs generally know their stuff, but its a dealorship and they see cars come and go all the time....so they tend to not care as much when a car comes in that needs real care and start to half-ass the job from what I've seen around here...

no offense to any mazda techs here

[icespeed]

oh, good call! I misread the post, I thought it was a main bearing. A rod bearing would cause "rod-walk" (don't know if that's a word, lol, but now it is!) This would cause the rod to move in the same fashion as crank walk. It would still eat up the crank and the ticking noise would still be the rod slapping against the block. With your other symptoms, I still stand by my statement that the rod is probably bent and the rings are probably blown out. The thing is, is if you decide to have someone tear down the bottom end, then it'll cost you a few hundred dollars. If it is something more than just the bearing, then you still have to get the newer engine + the money you dished out having this one looked at.

[808MP5]

well I never got mine diagnosed. But it started ticking while at crusing speed and while releasing the gas. It wouldn't tick when stomping the gas pedal. I could narrow it down to piston one with a stethescope. It got more worse as time went on. By worse I mean it become continuos no matter how much gas I gave it. It also wasn't that loud either. But it finally gave out while punching it off the line to beat the traffic. Then it was no longer a ticking sound. It turned into a knock. Car lasted for two days then it finally blew. Two credit card size holes in the front and back of the block. I could see the rod laying on the bottom of the block. LOL I stuck my hand in there and pulled it out and cut my finger at the same time.

I suggest u get it fixed before u really have to by a new motor. A complete bearing set, forged rods and pistons, cometic gasket set, ARP headstuds, and timing belt kit can be had at protegegarage for around $2000 or less.

[ksteele38]

What year is it. I say toss in another grand or so, go get you a used P5 and start all over. Rip any mods out and part out the car to us to make some cash back.....

No, just kidding. Shop in here for motor look at JDM area get you a MS motor and turbo. Now I'm talkin about my dream..... Call around yards you can find a motor get some beer and pizza and invite some friends over and then hit them with the motor swap....

[benzero]

I know I blew my 1.8 in my 00 pro, it was about $750 for an engine with 33k miles. I think I paid only like $2k for the install. I think that price is way high. I had mine done in our local speed shop though, not the dealer. He had some connection for motors.

[icespeed]

well I never got mine diagnosed. But it started ticking while at crusing speed and while releasing the gas. It wouldn't tick when stomping the gas pedal. I could narrow it down to piston one with a stethescope. It got more worse as time went on. By worse I mean it become continuos no matter how much gas I gave it. It also wasn't that loud either. But it finally gave out while punching it off the line to beat the traffic. Then it was no longer a ticking sound. It turned into a knock. Car lasted for two days then it finally blew. Two credit card size holes in the front and back of the block.

mine was ticking only at half throttle as well. At WOT, nothing. At idle, nothing. That lasted for two weeks. My little brother is a mechanic and told me that it was a valve sticking and it wasn't a big deal. Coming off the highway at about 35mph in second I heard Tink... tink... KABLOOOIEEE!!!! But, pictures speak a thousand words....

http://www.projectsilverphoenix.com/Low%20Res%20Pics/IMG_1398.JPG
http://www.projectsilverphoenix.com/Low%20Res%20Pics/IMG_1399.JPG

Yeah, you can see right through the block. You can see from the first pic that the rod bolts are completely shaved down and bent. The ticking noise was the rod slapping against the wall. That bent the rod.

Take it from me, OP, get a new(er) engine and call it a day.

[Woody54]

I'm fucked. Just got a call back from the shop and apparently I've got at least one bad rod bearing. They say it calls for a new engine. They found one with 41k mi with a few extras. $4100 for engine and installation. Does this sound kosher to you guys?

Thanks,
-Frank

NOOO!!! talk to ken at PG. It sucks that you don't live in the area but u can definitely order an engine for less than that from him. And that installation seems a tad bit high as well. (PS- i just did this about 5 months ago. New engine and install through PG, but i could have my car towed there. chicagoland FTW!)

[Flagship]

well I never got mine diagnosed. But it started ticking while at crusing speed and while releasing the gas. It wouldn't tick when stomping the gas pedal. I could narrow it down to piston one with a stethescope. It got more worse as time went on. By worse I mean it become continuos no matter how much gas I gave it. It also wasn't that loud either. But it finally gave out while punching it off the line to beat the traffic. Then it was no longer a ticking sound. It turned into a knock. Car lasted for two days then it finally blew. Two credit card size holes in the front and back of the block. I could see the rod laying on the bottom of the block. LOL I stuck my hand in there and pulled it out and cut my finger at the same time.

I suggest u get it fixed before u really have to by a new motor. A complete bearing set, forged rods and pistons, cometic gasket set, ARP headstuds, and timing belt kit can be had at protegegarage for around $2000 or less.

Exactly what's going on with my P5... I actually said 'fuck the dealership" and brought it to a foreign car service charge-your-face-off garage. Apparently my engine will last me a week at the most. Once again, I don't know how they could have figured this out in an hour, but whatever. I love my car, but I wish this was more reliable, although I did drive it pretty hard. I always thought Mazda built Pro's to limits (to cut down on inertia for revs and mpg's) and this is definately prof to me. I really don't feel like pushing this bitch in ANY way anymore.

If I decive to get the new block, I honestly can't wait to see how much my power deteriorated. Ought to do a dyno before and after. What a beautiful end... a baseball-sized hole in the block while on the pony rack. Truly glorious.

[sprinter119]

How the hell is everyones engine blowing now im scared

[rednecks_r_us]

How the hell is everyones engine blowing now im scared


The FSDE has a poorly designed oiling system. The oil pump is loose in tollerances and drops oil pressure quickly. Thus more and more protege's ending up with spun bearings. Doc B Racing has discovered this on their race engines. The last I read they were working on a plan to fix this.

I've already gone through two motors. My car is parked on the side of my house waiting on funds for a third motor.

[ksteele38]

Found a site with used motors.

http://siteground207.com/~protegeg/product_info.php?cPath=281_32_175&products_id=620

[benzero]

How the hell is everyones engine blowing now im scared

don't push it hard. mine blew because I was young and loved the bottle. I just shot and shot and shot til....BOOM.

No nitrous for me this time.

[mx-p5]

We're in the same boat. Except my car isn't at the dealer. I've got it at a friend's shop whose a mechanic. He says I may have a bad bearing as well, and a cracked and chipped main seal. Find out today if the cylinder walls are jacked.

But, I do have to gloat and say that I'll only be paying my $100 deductable for whatever I get. I'm really pushing for a new motor, so, the mechanic is trying to find something to get the warranty company to get a new motor

Ken sells brand new zero mileage short blocks for $2000. Or, used for $1000. Give him a call if you end up needing a motor. If I end up needing a motor, that's where I'm getting one
Tylor

[mx-p5]

I've already gone through two motors. My car is parked on the side of my house waiting on funds for a third motor.

I'll buy your lights to help with your funding issue (nana)

Tylor

[rednecks_r_us]

I'll buy your lights to help with your funding issue (nana)

Tylor

ROFL hahahahahaha

[S.A.MSP]

OP, if it just a rod bearing then replace it yourself if you feel comfortable enough to do so, i did mine over the weekend, $35 Clevite bearings, pull both oilpans and replace all the bearings at the same time, obviously you need the bearing lube and the torque specs but it is honestly not that hard

[sprinter119]

Three motors for redneck damng thats crazy if you dont mind me askin what happened to them? Flagship howd your motor blow?

[rednecks_r_us]

Three motors for redneck damng thats crazy if you dont mind me askin what happened to them? Flagship howd your motor blow?

Spun bearings due to oil starvation. Doc B Racing has discovered the cause and is working on a cure according to MAZDASPORT Magazine.

[neox.286]

what about the AWR oilpan?

[808MP5]

I think it has more to do with the oil pump and circulation. If ur main/rear seals and gaskets are all good ur oil shouldn't be going anywhere besides circulating within the motor.

[rednecks_r_us]

I think it has more to do with the oil pump and circulation. If ur main/rear seals and gaskets are all good ur oil shouldn't be going anywhere besides circulating within the motor.

Its the oil pump and housing. MAzda made the tollerances too loose Doc B Racing has done some research in having them coated to tighten up the tollerances.

[808MP5]

horse power freaks sell a higher output oil pump but the shipping here to hawaii is rediculous. I was gonna order PIAA wiper blades and the shipping was twice as much as the cost of the proucts. They wanted $70 shipping for something that cost $30. PG is the best cuz they ship free to me yay

Would be nice to solve the issue. I've experienced a spun bearing and its not pretty. But x3 is crazy.

[rednecks_r_us]

horse power freaks sell a higher output oil pump but the shipping here to hawaii is rediculous. I was gonna order PIAA wiper blades and the shipping was twice as much as the cost of the proucts. They wanted $70 shipping for something that cost $30. PG is the best cuz they ship free to me yay

Would be nice to solve the issue. I've experienced a spun bearing and its not pretty. But x3 is crazy.


Its zoom-zoom-boom X's 2. This will only be my 3rd motor. I haven't blown the third one yet. Actually both motors will be torn apart and combined into one using all the best parts. LOL

You got a link for that oil pump?

[808MP5]

Its zoom-zoom-boom X's 2. This will only be my 3rd motor. I haven't blown the third one yet. Actually both motors will be torn apart and combined into one using all the best parts. LOL

You got a link for that oil pump?

toga oil pump part#256438

Horsepowerfreaks.com

I'm on my phone so I can't copy and paste the link. Not that hard to find. Even though there shipping sucks. Navigating through the weboage is fairly easy. Just choose mazda then protege. Scroll to the bottom and choose oil pump.

Or could try an accusump setup. Oops didn't mean to jinx u. Ur third motor gonna be solid.

[Magus]

On snap!(boom06) I just looked at the manual online, it's going to be a expensive (painfully long) swap.

Remove timing belt
Remove AC and tubing
Remove Oil Pan
Remove Tranny
Remove .....

Dude, I hope that this is not an major issue! I had an engine go and got it replaced. I had them use a AWR oil pan instead just to be safe. It will piss me off to no end if I really also needed the oil pump! That would have saved me so much hassle and expense!!!(sad2) There is no way in heck I would put a turbo on this motor if that is the case!

[rednecks_r_us]

toga oil pump part#256438

Horsepowerfreaks.com

I'm on my phone so I can't copy and paste the link. Not that hard to find. Even though there shipping sucks. Navigating through the weboage is fairly easy. Just choose mazda then protege. Scroll to the bottom and choose oil pump.

Or could try an accusump setup. Oops didn't mean to jinx u. Ur third motor gonna be solid.

$270.80

Toga Protege High Volume Oil Pumps
Photo may differ for each model

All High Volume pumps are brand new, have tighter tolerances, are made of 4130 steel, and are hand packed with A.R.P. moly lube for initial start up!

These are the finest Import High Volume Pumps in today's market place. We import these pumps from a Japan based company which makes both OEM and HP pumps for Import racing.

Why get a Toga High Volume pump?
Unlike other suppliers, TOGA supplies both the Pump and the Front Cover for ALL front mounted Oil Pumps!
They meet the demands of today's high performance engines
They increase the life of any motor & are a must for high rev motors
Give OEM builds a great amount of protection for the heart of the motor = no oil starvation!
All pumps come with a 2 year warranty (1 year for 800HP+)
All pumps are stamped with a red HV imprint

[rednecks_r_us]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123700949

FS DE oil pump issues. See this thread