HydroLocked :(

[IukekiniProtege]

alright, well tonight the worst possible thing happened.
Went to go to the store and well it has been raining all day after we got 10inches of snow last night. Well all the drains around the area are over filled so the roads have laked sized puddles. Anyways, came across a puddle that took up the whole road, and this is one of the major roads in concord, nh. I made it through 3/4 of it and it started to bog so i shut the car off, and coasted to the side of the road. GOt a friend with a jeep to tow me to a near by parking lot, bought some tools and took the plugs out and cranked it over to force the water out, got it all out well probably still tiny drops left, but alright put the plugs back in get the coil-packs bolted down and start her up, it starts but now cylinder 1 or 4(however you like to number them) is making a loud knocking noise. I shut it off and opened the oil cap and some water had made it to the valve train, but not as bad as i've seen with cars with blown head gaskets. but pulled the dip stick and the oil looks perfect down there. So basically this is what I am asking:

Question:
What do you think is the cause of this noise? Bent Valve, Bent Rod, Possible Detonation or knocking from the maf getting wet and fucking with the computer?

Any input would be great

-Justin

[LordWorm]

its not going to hurt your computer....

but if you truely hydrolocked the motor, then yeah, bent rod and/or damaged piston would be my diagnosis.... hard to know without pulling it down...

[IukekiniProtege]

well i know its not gonna hurt the computer, but if the maf is wet or messed up could it be sending the wrong info and the computer not give enough fuel and make it lean out dramatically. Whatever, anyways by having the oil in the valve train and not down bottom, would that lead to a possible valve problem? rather then a connecting rod or piston?

[LordWorm]

well i know its not gonna hurt the computer, but if the maf is wet or messed up could it be sending the wrong info and the computer not give enough fuel and make it lean out dramatically. Whatever, anyways by having the oil in the valve train and not down bottom, would that lead to a possible valve problem? rather then a connecting rod or piston?

hydrolock generally causes piston and rod damage. The engine "inhales" water, this enters the engine via the intake valve.....

again, you're not going to know for sure until you pull it down.

you asked for an opinion - in my opinion, its going to be rod and/or piston damage.

Lift the head, drop the crank, have a look....

[Tom03es]

Lift the head, drop the crank, have a look....

And stop driving through giant puddles.

What kind of air intake do you have?

[LordWorm]

And stop driving through giant puddles.


that too...

[TheMAN]

you should've NEVER started the engine without changing the oil... you may have damaged it more than it has

change the oil then try again
oh and you KNEW the water was deep and you chose to drive through it... that was smart! after seeing many people who got their shit hydrolocked, you think it won't happen to you and you get the superman syndrome and think you can make it

[IukekiniProtege]

alright, i didn't know how deep the puddle was before entering it, i was following traffic, on a main city road, no other cars had broken down around there and no one was turning around, so i figured it was just like every other puddle that was on that road before, ones i made it through with no issues, i didn't realize how deep it was until it started stuttering. When I started the car it was on for maybe 15seconds

[TheMAN]

you see a big ass puddle and you have a CAI, don't drive through it! it's that simple! why chance it?
if you don't want to worry, then get a WAI like I did... CAIs are overrated

[MP3Performance]

Sometimes it is very hard to gauge how deep the water is before you go into it if you are not familiar with the road. Last summer there was a flash flood in the city, it rained about 6in in less then an hour. I was driving on a road that looked flat and seemed to have water about 1/2 in deep. Once I started driving over it the water came up to my door sill. I turned straight into a parking lot and waited for over an hour for the water level to go down. I only later found out that the street had a huge curved dip by the curbs (like 1/2 foot). All I'm saying is that it is very hard to gauge water level on roads sometimes.

Good luck with fixing your car.

[TheMAN]

that reiterates the fact... CAI FTL

[D_Roc7822]

i would say its a rod knocking.. but then not hearing it. Who knows.

[Tom03es]

Report back when you have the block torn down and figure out for sure what it is.

[LordWorm]

CAI will only cause hydrolock if the filter becomes immersed... usually, if you have the balls to do it, driving through a puddle at speed will prevent a hydrolock - its stopping, or driving slowly, through a body of water that will cause the engine to inhale water....

if you have the presense of mind, you can also get off the throttle and engage the clutch to close the throttle, coast through then shut the motor down.

But the easiest way of surviving it is to not drive through puddles in the first place..

puddles wreck havoc with more than just engines...they are bad for brakes (wet brakes wont stop you), you get muddy yuck strewn under the car - its just not good...

[LordWorm]

Report back when you have the block torn down and figure out for sure what it is.

agreed....to add to that, look on the bright side...tearing the block down gives you an oppertunity to build a better engine....

if you've bent a rod, replace them with longer, forged items....if you've fried a piston, go for some nice high comp items....

its expensive - but you need to look on the bright side...

[red95_240sx]

dont flame him people...

[MP3Performance]

that reiterates the fact... CAI FTL

Ohhh now you say it. We should have all consulted TheMAN before hand and this problem would not have happened, lol (rei).

Seriously though, 99.99% they work great and sometimes even better then a WAI (well, maybe not specifically on the protege). It's only that .01 % of the time you need to watch out for water. I also like the look of the CAI then a WAI in the engine bay.

[TheMAN]

a WAI with a heat shield gives equally as good gains as a CAI (which is a measily 1whp difference as the most)... the temperatures may not be as cool, but the air doesn't have to travel as far nor as many bends

[LordWorm]

a WAI with a heat shield gives equally as good gains as a CAI (which is a measily 1whp difference as the most)... the temperatures may not be as cool, but the air doesn't have to travel as far nor as many bends

and you honestly think that an extra 18 inches less pipe and 1 or 2 less insanely wide radius bends makes up for a significant increase in air temp?

a typical "WAI" as you call it will be no match for a CAI for gains - especially once you have after market management (the air temp adjustments yield significant gains).

Obviously a CORRECTLY designed short ram will stomp a CAI (due to leveraging resonance to improve plenum filling) - but unless you've calculated your ram length exactly (length, effective length through bends, and pipe diameter against RPM and VE), and have an intake manifold that can take advantage of it, then CAI is certainly worth it.

[red95_240sx]

Wai??? A Waat??

[LordWorm]

Wai??? A Waat??

warm air intake

aka

short ram....(although, no off the shelf items "ram" anything... they are just pod filters and a convenient length of pipe selected for ease of fitment .... in effect..)

[IukekiniProtege]

alright, im just gonna follow your threads LordWorm and TheMan, and wait for some issue that you guys have, then I will bash you for having your car screw up on you or you do something to your cars.

I made this thread to seek advice as to what might cause knocking noise after being hydrolocked. I did not intend this thread to be a bash the guy who happened to go through a puddle thread or how to avoid hydro lock, or having a cai is a bad idea.

[DCookSta]

I've had a CAI on the Pro for a couple of years, and had one on my previous car. It's my understanding that an intake won't suck up enough water to do damage unless the filter is completely submerged. I doubt a splash or heavy rain could cause enough change in air pressure to pull a lot of water up the intake pipe. Not saying, it could not happen but seems hard to do.

[IukekiniProtege]

the puddle was well past where the filter sits, so in my case it is very possible, it wasnt just a splash

[Tom03es]

Get busy tearing down that motor and find out what's wrong. Or are you gonig to continue to drive it until it totally fails on you?

[IukekiniProtege]

i'm not driving it now, it's sitting in a parking lot near where the puddle was, im getting it down to the Mazda dealer tomorrow afternoon. I will find out in a couple days

[LordWorm]

alright, im just gonna follow your threads LordWorm and TheMan, and wait for some issue that you guys have, then I will bash you for having your car screw up on you or you do something to your cars.

I made this thread to seek advice as to what might cause knocking noise after being hydrolocked. I did not intend this thread to be a bash the guy who happened to go through a puddle thread or how to avoid hydro lock, or having a cai is a bad idea.

woah steady on.

a) I told you what i think might be wrong with your engine.
b) I defended your choice for having a CAI, debating with TheMan's opinion that WAI's are superior.
c) I suggested you steer clear of puddles in the future
d) told you to look on the bright side, and take pulling the engine down as an oppertunity to make it better.

You refused to accept that this could be major internal damage, and instead decided to concentrate on it being a valve damage issue (it may be...but, you wont be certain until you tear the block down and have a look).

Theres no need to get all defensive - you asked for advice/opinions, and you got them.

[IukekiniProtege]

I didnt refuse to accept that it might be internal, i know there is a damn good possibility that it is. I was asking if there was water just in the head and not in the oil pan, if that would point to a more likely valve issue.

As for the other things maybe i mistook how you worded things, but it definitely seemed like bashing or flaming for driving through a puddle; trust me if I had seen the puddle before I was in it I would have stopped and turned around, but being dark, in traffic, no signs that there was a basically flooded road ahead I had no idea until I hit it and the car started bogging out and then I shut it off.

I did plenty of research and reading before coming here. The main issues I have seen associated with hydrolock was a bent rod, bent valve, or piston damage. So after looking around probably 3 hours worth of google searches and video searches on youtube, I figured I would post here. I was looking for other possible causes, you know being optimistic about it hoping something else, less serious might cause a knocking after this experience.

As for looking on the bright side and building stronger, it sounds like a good chance, but last I knew it was A LOT of custom fabbing and a lot of time acquiring the parts to build a forged motor. Anyways, the car is currently sitting at the local dealer and will be looked at monday. I will report back when they are done. As of now they aren't charging to troubleshoot, so we shall see.

And I apologize again for maybe taking something the wrong way, it's been a stressful couple days and I really didn't need the smart ass remarks from people, I was simply looking for advice on the knocking nothing more.

[NCZ13]

i had to drive through a flooded street on thursday. this exact thread popped into my mind as i was driving through. i basically just clutched in and coasted through... needless to say i almost shit my pants.

[LordWorm]

As for looking on the bright side and building stronger, it sounds like a good chance, but last I knew it was A LOT of custom fabbing and a lot of time acquiring the parts to build a forged motor. Anyways, the car is currently sitting at the local dealer and will be looked at monday. I will report back when they are done. As of now they aren't charging to troubleshoot, so we shall see.


you can get the parts for a custom rebuild fairly readily...

There are off the shelf rods with raised wrist pins that just about every AV on this forum sells....high comp NA Pistons would need to be custom, but any AV will help.

Then you take all the goodies to an engine builder and let them do their stuff...you will need some sort of engine management to get hte most out of a built engine of course......

but yeah, not much in the way of custom stuff needed.... you only really need to replace the rods and pistons....engine builder will look after overboring, machining the crank, rebalancing and assembly....

[IukekiniProtege]

well i thought the guy(forgot s/n) is going forged on his 1.6 and he has to have the pistons shaved down a bit anyways, idk seems like too much work, and not worth the outcome, if i had the 2.0 i would think about it.

[IukekiniProtege]

well, the verdict came back from the shop. The entire bottom end and head are gone, probably could rebuild, but I don't have time to tow it to a friends then send the stuff out. So they are replacing the entire motor. From what I understand, the main bearings for cylinder 1 and 2 were shredded, oil was full of metal, the head had three bent valves, two being cylinder 1 and one intake on cylinder two, cylinder two was basically at 0psi for compression from what they said. New motor is going to be from a rear end wrecked protege with 73,000miles which is 13,000 less then the current motor, and the cost is insane, but what is money for then to spend.

[icespeed]

That sucks, man. I feel your pain. I personally wouldn't go through the dealer, but if that is your only option, so be it.

However, do this.... Tell them that you want to keep the old parts. You would have two options: You could sell them as "cores" to people looking to go forged, or you could do a forged build yourself.

[red95_240sx]

is it another 1.6L? If not, I wanna try the injen when i get the celica sensor.

[IukekiniProtege]

yeah new motor is still the 1.6l, would be more to go 2.0(wiring harness, ecu, passenger side mount, exhaust manifold, intake, maf, tranny, etc..)

[BinoMP5]

man if my budget would allow it i would buy my KL motor and sell you my 2.0L... but it way too soon for me to do it without starving and missing car and bill payments... but i have been trying to find a way to get rid of my 2.0L when i do the motor swap... but im sure u dont want the SportAT so you'd have to supply your own tranny their... that wasn't much help was it?

[IukekiniProtege]

haha not really, and a few other things would be needed, ecu, harness, passenger side mount, probably axles. However, the good old slotege is back from the dead after too much money, stock intake is on so no chance of hydrolock again, however its not overly quiet with the Mazdaspeed axle back. So I am still pleased.
Keep in touch though, when you get around to the KL swap i might be looking into a 2.0 to buy, then build then swap in a bit down the road. I am basically set on keeping my car for a couple more years.

[red95_240sx]

so...the injens up fro sale?

[IukekiniProtege]

yeah there is a for sale thread; although I kinda want to keep it for at least shows this year, but $100 + shipping takes it.