Mazda5 engine stumble during light acceleration TSB

[Benfolio]

FINALLY!!! (http://www.mstore2000.com/PDF_Files/01-008-08-1914.pdf)


APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS
2006-2007 Mazda5 vehicles
DESCRIPTION
Some vehicles may experience an intermittent engine stumble while driving with light acceleration at 1500-2500
rpm. This is caused by the camshaft position sensor picking up noise from the nearby ignition coil harness,
which the PCM detects as an abnormal signal. To eliminate this concern, the PCM software has been changed.

Sure, now that I no longer own it, they find the cure to the problem. (gtfo)

[raspykart]

dang, I need to have this done... it happens every once in a while but not too bad. Rotary's have had problems with noise getting into the ignition on aftermarket ECUs.

[dreamym5]

it is for "before" 08 right? sounds scary..(scratch)

[jandree22]

HELL YES x ∞! The 5 is definitely getting some warranty work in the next month! Benfolio, I bowdown to you... you're my official hero for the day! (bowdown)

dreamym5, yes, it is flat out scary when it happens. You're accelerating and the car violently jerks for a second then continues on its merry way like nothing happened. You never have a warning when it's about to happen, just all of a sudden engine cuts out for a split second and you get thrown forward. Crazy $h1t! (eek2)

[olddaddy]

Thanks again Benfolio.

[$chocker]

Halleluja!! How the hell did they figure that out? And why would it be mostly a cold weather thing? We are talking about the big lurch, right?

[rweatherford]

I'd like to know what they changed in the software. Seems like moving the ignition or some type of shielding would have been the cure.

I'm wondering if they turned something off or changed the RPM range.

Perhaps keeping track of MPG before and after would tell us something?

[Skylab™]

Damn car did this today, after I was already in traffic. People in the car next to me doing the, "Haha, must be his first time driving a stick." look. Major suckage.

[jandree22]

People in the car next to me doing the, "Haha, must be his first time driving a stick." look. Major suckage.
tell me about it... it seems to ALWAYS happen to me halfway across a busy intersection.

[skyhawk]

hi. I have the mz5 2006. Either I have not noticed the problem or I have adapted my driving style to it. Is there a way to make the problem appear? or does it happen at random.

[jandree22]

hi. I have the mz5 2006. Either I have not noticed the problem or I have adapted my driving style to it. Is there a way to make the problem appear? or does it happen at random.
you'd know if it had happened as it's rather violent. it's just one single jolt where the engine cuts out jerking you forward. don't know why you'd want to make the issue appear, but sure, lol... usually when it happens to me under the following conditions...

25%-50% throttle
usually immediately after shifting into 2nd gear
usually really cold weather (although it's happened when it's been like 60*F'ish, too)
usually soon after I first leave in the morning (although sometimes it comes out of nowhere after the engine has warmed up, too)
and yes, it is very random. few and far between, but it sucks when it does happen


It hasn't happened to me in weeks, if not months, but lately I've also been taking a stab at hypermiling so I'm shifting way low at like < 2k RPM.

[rweatherford]

Is this a "manual" tranmission only problem?

[Skylab™]

Is this a "manual" transmission only problem?

My 5 does have the manual transmission. The hesitation makes it feel as if you let the clutch out too soon. I can't comment on any automatics having this issue.

So will Mazda issue a recall on this problem?

[jandree22]

Unfortunately, I’ve heard of 4AT’s experiencing this issue as well. If you haven’t experienced it yet, I wouldn’t worry about it… simply because if this issue only happens later down the road when your 5 is out of warranty, I can’t imagine it would be an expensive fix as there are no parts to replace. On the other hand, I don’t think this issue has to be duplicated (verified) by the tech… simply because it’s SUCH a random hit or miss thing. So you could lie and said it happened and they could probably still perform the TSB procedures for you anyhow.

Skylab, I kind of doubt that they’d issue a recall for this as it’s not a safety issue. Plus, recalls tend to be get media coverage, and not the good kind. I question if perhaps resale value of a car is dinged every time a recall is issued. But I think I kind of know where you're going with this... many owners probably have already complained about this to their tech's to no avail so they threw in the towel figuring it would never get fixed... well now there's a fix so how will they find out?

One thing that they may do, is issue a Special Service Program bulletin. I received one of these for a widespread issue with Mazda OEM Sirius radios a year or so ago. It acts like a recal in that it notifies the owners that there is a fix for the issue they may be experiencing, but doesn't go to the manditory nature of a recall. An example of a "Special Service Program" bulletin can be found here if you want to take a look. http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123654562&highlight=sirius

[hagow_boy]

It happened alot in my 2007 GT. I reported it to the Mazda service center who did some adjustments on software upgrades. At the same time, I switched types of gas back to 87 octane Chevron. Since then (4 months ago), everything is fine.

Before that, it was doing it about once every few weeks. It was extremely dangerous and made me feel very unsecure when making left hand turns with on-coming traffic. It always seem to cut out when I was in the process of making left hand turns from a stop position.

[coolmazda5]

Mazda5 2.3L engine in concept equals to Mazda3 and Mazda6 2.3L, Is it only affecting the Mazda5?

This gets the s*&t out of me, but never experienced it. Mine is almost a 2005 though, too old maybe? ;)

[nutuzum]

you'd know if it had happened as it's rather violent. it's just one single jolt where the engine cuts out jerking you forward. don't know why you'd want to make the issue appear, but sure, lol... usually when it happens to me under the following conditions...

25%-50% throttle
usually immediately after shifting into 2nd gear
usually really cold weather (although it's happened when it's been like 60*F'ish, too)
usually soon after I first leave in the morning (although sometimes it comes out of nowhere after the engine has warmed up, too)
and yes, it is very random. few and far between, but it sucks when it does happen


It hasn't happened to me in weeks, if not months, but lately I've also been taking a stab at hypermiling so I'm shifting way low at like < 2k RPM.


I have a '06 M5 with MT5 and have noticed the same thing under similar conditions + these:

-only in moderate cold weather (+5c to -5c in Canada eh?)
-only during warmup (temp gauge about 1/4 inch off bottom)
-always only once per trip, maybe every 2-3 weeks or so.
-have tried very hard to reproduce it on demand but couldn't.

Now that I know there is a cure I will try to get it fixed.
I just hope that the TSB is honored by Mazda Canada

[skyhawk]

I'm practicing how to describe the problem to the dealer. I remember having experienced a hesitation before the first months of our mz5 2006. The kind where your body lurch forward sort of like coffee spilled out the cup after
sudden deceleration. At that time I thought it was normal bec. the symptom was almost similar to the Drive-by-wire lag issue.

[coolmazda5]

I'm practicing how to describe the problem to the dealer. I remember having experienced a hesitation before the first months of our mz5 2006. The kind where your body lurch forward sort of like coffee spilled out the cup after
sudden deceleration. At that time I thought it was normal bec. the symptom was almost similar to the Drive-by-wire lag issue.

I would print the bulletin and hand it to them: "Here, this is happening to me and this is what you have to do, if you have any questions, call Mazda" :D

I drove my wife's 06 while cold and the only thing I noted is that irregular-n-crazy acceleration that you eventually get when taking off once in 2nd gear. I think this was mentioned already, so it is old... (wrong)

[rweatherford]

Yea the increased acceleration (without moving pedal) is the only thing I have noticed.

The hesitation problem you guys talk about sounds like a problem I had with my Quad4. After putting aftermarket exhaust and larger downpipe the car would have a hesitation in the same place leaving for work every day. With a scanner I was finally able to figure out what the problem was.

When the car was warmed up after coming home the fuel trims were setup for "warmed up" closed loop operation. When leaving for work the next morning the fuel trims were not quite right. AS SOON as the car would switch from open loop (no O2 sensor input) to closed loop (reading O2 sensor) the car would stumble for a split second until it could adjust the fuel trim memory to match the cooler temp engine needs.

So perhaps they just changed the temperature that the car goes into closed loop? Easy fix if that was the problem.

[NjCarbonM5]

Same thing happen to my M5 .. id say 5 time and the dealer would say no codes can't duplicate it .. come back when it does .. guess what I have a Service bulletin .. they can also fix the water inthe Side marker lights..

[meackerman]

cool, wife mentioned this had been happening last night and I had the answer all ready...

[paging_drburgos]

is this considered a warranty item? This hasnt happened to me in a while, but today while i was at lunch it happened. Talk about perfect timing. Oh and i have a 4AT (automatic for you noobs)

[MeTaL]

I was told by my dealer they cannot do the fix if Mazda Canada doesnt issue the TSB. I hope ti finds its way to Mazda Canada before my next service.
My damn 5 did it the other day again and the car was plenty warm... :(

[2cam16]

Cool,Benfolio.Thanks. I'll have this done ASAP. It happened again the other day in Lake Tahoe in 20 degree weather.

[Frink]

Thanks for that post Benfolio.
My 06 only has 10,000 km on it and has done it about 6 times to me over a year or so.
If anyone has any luck getting this done at a Canadian dealership, please post the particulars here... as I'm very unimpressed with my local Mazda dealer.
I'm gonna contact them this week and see what they have to say about getting this done.

[2cam16]

Well, had the re-flash at the dealer this morning. Also was having an issue with the steering wheel stereo remote so they ordered a part for me. All done under warranty.
Let's hope it doesn't show-up again.

[olddaddy]

Well, had the re-flash at the dealer this morning. Also was having an issue with the steering wheel stereo remote so they ordered a part for me. All done under warranty.
Let's hope it doesn't show-up again.

Do you know how long it took them to do the reflash? Did you show them the TSB?

[Frink]

I brought the car in to the dealer today for the re-flash.
For starters, they wanted nothing to do with the TSB because it was a Mazda USA bulletin, apparently not applicable in Canada.
They did however agree to hook it up and see if they had a newer version of the sofware, which they did, so they updated my ECU.
Now, whether this updated Canadian software is the same as the one in the American TSB, I don't know.
Just gotta wait and see if the fix worked.
Dosen't take long to do the flash either... half hour all together or so.

[2cam16]

Do you know how long it took them to do the reflash? Did you show them the TSB?
I was in at 7:15 A.M. and out by 9. I also had the stereo controls checked so add that in to the time spent.
Didn't even need to show the TSB, even though I brought a copy. My service advisor mentioned the TSB before I could. :)

[5phreak]

welp, my 5 did this a few times but has never stalled and today it stalled about 1/4 way into an intersection. Now I'm going to have the dealer do a fixie. Up until now it happened so infrequently and was so minor it didn't bother me.

[olddaddy]

I got the reflash today. (I just showed them the TSB and told them this was happening to me) Took an hour for that and a oil change. Hope this helps but the main thing I don't see it hurting anything.

[mkmbennett]

Thank ya'll so much for the information about the TSB. I have a 2007 Mazda 5 GT that has been hesitating off and on for the last couple of months. It almost always is first thing in the morning when I am pulling out of my driveway. We brought it to Mazda and they could not reproduce the problem. My husband is a Honda Tech and he said that we should wait until it got more consistent so that they could reproduce the problem. Well...today it decided to stall as I pulled out of my neighborhood onto a very busy street. My children and I almost got creamed. I took it back to Mazda today and watched the tech drive it like a maniac all over the parking lot...I guess he didn't hear me say that it was on cold starts under light throttle. Anyways, they put me in a loaner car and said they will try again tomorrow. I will absolutely be forwarding this TSB to them...

My husband took a look at the TSB (we found the actual TSB number online) said that the reprogramming of the PCM allows for greater tolerances. He said that when the coil fires, it puts out a large magnetic field that "confuses" the cam sensor and it does not know what to do, so it "quits." The TSB number on this problem is 01-046/06. It can be found at the following link

[URL="http://www.protegefaq.net/tsb/01-046-06.html"]

Oh...The 2007 Mazda 3 loaner car they put me in now has a check engine light on....hmmmm

[rweatherford]

Thanks for the tech info on the TSB! Sounds like I should have this done before it is a problem.

[jandree22]

So has anyone as of yet experienced this after having the TSB performed? (nervous) Just curious… I’m sending mine into the shop here in a few days for the fix.

[coolmazda5]

yay, serviced my 06 today and they applied this TSB, no questions asked. The acceleration is now more uniform and "feels" peppier when stepping on the gas at around 3000-4000RPMs, like the 08. Let's now see fuel economy, I hope it improves too (naughty)

On the upside they have ordered and will replace under warranty one of the door arms which was cracking (ask wife (scratch)) :D, but on the downside they have ordered and will apply the freezing latches recall and the squeaky bushings citing Mazda is encouraging owners to perform them to minimize any Mazda accident "liability". I hope they don't mess it up too much...

[raspykart]

I just scheduled ours for an oil change and this TSB, the guy really harassed me about it and tried to make it sound like I wanted to hurt my car and I'm some sort of an idiot. So I printed it out and highlighted the part about customers concerned about this should have this done.

[Mazda5wannabe]

Raspykart, smack that idiot of a service writer and start looking for another shop to do your servicing. He's an absolute moron.

My Mazda dealer applied the TSB after checking out the computer codes quite happily. I've noticed a distinct improvement in acceleration.

[raspykart]

Raspykart, smack that idiot of a service writer and start looking for another shop to do your servicing. He's an absolute moron.

My Mazda dealer applied the TSB after checking out the computer codes quite happily. I've noticed a distinct improvement in acceleration.

will do man, I'm gonna take'r in myself tomorrow and show the documentation and explain my impression of the service I received over the phone... I know Mazda puts pressure on the these guys to perform well and give courteous service... I'll be pleasant and encourage them to not attempt to make customers look like idiots as they don't really know the person well enough to do that. Only 1 mazda dealer in town n guess they know it... sigh.

[Mazda5wannabe]

will do man, I'm gonna take'r in myself tomorrow and show the documentation and explain my impression of the service I received over the phone... I know Mazda puts pressure on the these guys to perform well and give courteous service... I'll be pleasant and encourage them to not attempt to make customers look like idiots as they don't really know the person well enough to do that. Only 1 mazda dealer in town n guess they know it... sigh.

Yeah, that's what I meant, pleasantly and courteously smack the moron!
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8399/thumbsup4kk.gif

Only game in town? Bummer! My local Mazda dealer has been absolutely great to deal with. Prompt and courteous, and very willing to listen to my comments on forum found TSBs.

[coolmazda5]

Only game in town? Bummer! My local Mazda dealer has been absolutely great to deal with. Prompt and courteous, and very willing to listen to my comments on forum found TSBs.

Now that you mention it, my dealer's new facility has "protected" Interweb access in the lounge area (you know, where you cannot modify browser settings) yet it does have a permanent favorite to this forum, interesting as they don't sponsor each other. Big brother is reading (lurk) which is good for us :D

[raspykart]

well I bumped into a better service guy when I arrived and "after" the service was completed I explained to him how upset I was about the convo with the other guy. He acknowledge it and seemed like I may not have been the only occurence, he assured me he'd personally take care of me whenever just contact him directly.

Back on topic, the PCM reprogram did make a notable difference in smoothness, the wife noticed it without mentioning it got done. The shifting seems more seemless and seems to wait a bit to see if your gonna hammer it or let up on'r... seems to be more intuitive and less predictively conservative. Am curious how different it'll be carving the hills with it now.

[DKaz]

Man it's an engine thing? I thought my clutch was starting to slip or something. Good call!

[drzombie]

In Canada here. My wife went in for regular maintenance and as we've had this problem occur a number of times, I asked her to get this taken care of as well. The service rep informed us that it is not covered under warranty - even though we have an extended warranty the reflash is not covered. Anyone confirm they had a similar experience in Canada before I go argue with him?

Thanks

[DKaz]

Same here, two dealers one in Langley BC one in Vancouver BC and neither would look at the problem. However if labour is only 0.3 hours x $95 = $28.50 + tax, I may just pay for it out of pocket rather than going through the trouble and stress of complaining, but what I'm going to do is schedule an appointment for my 96,000km service (which is a big $360 item), and tell them to deal with this as well, if they don't I'll just cancel my appointment and take my business to a closer dealership (I bought my tires there, pretty good service) and see if they'll let up.

[shoredad]

In Canada here. My wife went in for regular maintenance and as we've had this problem occur a number of times, I asked her to get this taken care of as well. The service rep informed us that it is not covered under warranty - even though we have an extended warranty the reflash is not covered. Anyone confirm they had a similar experience in Canada before I go argue with him?

Thanks

This problem is covered by a service bulletin, so it is covered by the warranty.
Do a search here to find the TSB #.
I had it done when my Mazda5 was new back in 2007, at the Mazda dealer in Port Moody. No questions, they knew it was a TSB issue.

If your dealer doesn't want to do it under warranty, call Mazda, they are usually pretty good with their customer service.

hope this helps.

[coolmazda5]

This problem is covered by a service bulletin, so it is covered by the warranty.
Do a search here to find the TSB #

Check the very first post on this thread. It has the original TSB printout from Mazda

[wmzda5]

In Canada here. My wife went in for regular maintenance and as we've had this problem occur a number of times, I asked her to get this taken care of as well. The service rep informed us that it is not covered under warranty - even though we have an extended warranty the reflash is not covered. Anyone confirm they had a similar experience in Canada before I go argue with him?

Thanks

I got this taken cared under warrantyon the first yr at ajax mazda

[dfskinner]

This warranty information applies only to verified customer complaints on vehicles eligible for warranty repair...........

I don't think they do any warrant work for me seeing that I'm at 97,000 miles.... on my 2006.......... knock on wood I've never had this problem.... just performed my second "tune-up".......... seems like the mpg goes up with the miles.... I checked today on my way up to DC and got almost 33 mpg........

Left Va Beach, Va
Drove 178 miles after I filled the tank.....
5.4 gallons to refill the tank in Stafford, Va
32.7777777777777778 mpg........

Not too bad..........

[DKaz]

I finally got my PCM reflashed! I brought my car in to get a CEL checked out since somehow it struck me as odd when the light came on and had a feeling it wasn't a gas cap issue. When I got the car back, they told me they upgraded my PCM because there was an update available.

The CEL was caused by the thermostat, although they wanted me to wait for the CEL to come back on again to confirm. It may have just been the cold weather and the thermostat not opening up as the engine temp went up or something like that, a nuisance alarm, but the thermostat could require replacing if it happens again.

33mpg would be pretty sweet. The best I've done is 31 US mpg. 105km/h with climate control on.