MAM FMIC VS. Perrin Fmic [Archive]

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 12:58 AM

hey, well i was wondering the performance gains of the mam fmic vs. the perrin fmic. i know that the perring fmic has a shorter pipe route but a bigger core and the mam fmic has pipes that changes size? so what do you all think? thanks for any answers you all are awesome (dance).

TurbomanProtege

02-05-2008, 01:01 AM

I think the perrin is better because the shorter piping means more air flow faster to the motor

mazdaspeedwerx

02-05-2008, 01:03 AM

when I first installed my perrin fmic I actually picked up acouple tenths.

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 01:11 AM

hummm yeah.... true

505zoom

02-05-2008, 02:07 AM

I think the perrin is better because the shorter piping means more air flow faster to the motor

Remember though, the perrin is a 28 x 9.25 x 3.5 core. The MAM was a 24 x 6 x 3.5 core. The shorter piping is mostly negated by the HUGE core, and you probably won't notice any quicker response between the two.

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 09:50 AM

anyone else?

Maxx Mazda

02-05-2008, 11:35 AM

I have the MAM kit (modified) and it's a wicked setup. Plus I don't have to worry about getting in a front end collision...

JCell

02-05-2008, 12:02 PM

i have the Perrin and can't complain, i love it

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 06:02 PM

hummm i wonder what the gains are

MAM vs. Ion vs. Perrin?

i know the perrin kit made like 23.XX hp and the ion claims to be low 20's

mspHtown

02-05-2008, 07:26 PM

hummm i wonder what the gains are

MAM vs. Ion vs. Perrin?

i know the perrin kit made like 23.XX hp and the ion claims to be low 20's

what are your goals?

perrin is overkill if your arent looking for huge numbers.

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 08:05 PM

in would some day like to go forged and push 20psi but it will be a few years if i even keep the car that long for short term as soon as i get the kit i will be at 9psi with piggyback, open down pipe, intake, wastegate and motor mounts and soon a intake mani.

mazdaspeedwerx

02-05-2008, 09:09 PM

where are you getting the mam from? and I remember hearing bad things about ion from alooong time ago. I think they may have been banned from here for something. same as mam

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 09:30 PM

from 505zoom it is a used kit and ill have to get a intercooler to fit it.

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 09:30 PM

im just tired of waiting on the perrin kit from turbo life

magnumP5

02-05-2008, 10:24 PM

Yeah the MAM has the most intelligent pipe design (starting with 2" and then going to 2.5") but I just hate the fact that it's routed through the driver's side wheel well. I agree, I think the Perrin's core is too big. Too bad there isn't a compromise somewhere. The nearest thing is Corksport's.

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 10:31 PM

so why is it good to go from 2 to 2.5? i always wondered this

magnumP5

02-05-2008, 10:33 PM

so why is it good to go from 2 to 2.5? i always wondered this
I'm not certain on the details (I should be though) but I'd imagine it helps with boost response as the air will be moving faster in the smaller piping. However it just might have been a size/space requirement. 505zoom would probably know this better than I could explain.

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 10:42 PM

humm im going to be running the corksport core on the mam pipes, maxxmazda runs the same set up. max i would like to know how you secured the core to the support beam?

Maxx Mazda

02-05-2008, 11:46 PM

humm im going to be running the corksport core on the mam pipes, maxxmazda runs the same set up. max i would like to know how you secured the core to the support beam?

Made some L brackets and drilled into the core. There's a mounting location to drill into on the sides. Then jsut stick it up under the bumper rebar, and it'l lfit.

SeR_Cyclops

02-05-2008, 11:51 PM

cool, do you have any pics of your set up?

Maxx Mazda

02-06-2008, 01:10 AM

cool, do you have any pics of your set up?

Ya man. Here's an OLD pic from 2 years ago of how it's mounted. Just L brackets and bolts.

The second pic is after I took al lthe support off my grill so it's just the mesh n stuff, looks WAY good.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/DSC00945.JPG

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/DSC02405.JPG

SeR_Cyclops

02-06-2008, 02:17 AM

nice that is the same front bumper as im going to be using as well. can i ask where did you get your fog lights at and what size they are?

505zoom

02-06-2008, 05:18 AM

I'm not certain on the details (I should be though) but I'd imagine it helps with boost response as the air will be moving faster in the smaller piping. However it just might have been a size/space requirement. 505zoom would probably know this better than I could explain.

This one is another theory based "myth" that is still not proven either way in my mind. The idea is that the air needs more space after being cooled, so you want a larger ID pipe on the cold-side.

You are of course right about smaller piping providing faster flow, but that isn't the "claimed" basis behind using a smaller hot-side and a larger cold-side. I think that the idea is more or less bogus though, and that using a matched 2.5" for both sides wouldn't show any difference compared to the other way.

505zoom

02-06-2008, 05:34 AM

nice that is the same front bumper as im going to be using as well.

Oh man, didn't realize this when I was talking about fitting the core in there. You will have a much easier time fitting the WW bumper. It has much more room than the stocker for these 3.5" intercoolers.

CantCMe

02-06-2008, 09:06 AM

Damn that looks nice...

Ya man. Here's an OLD pic from 2 years ago of how it's mounted. Just L brackets and bolts.

The second pic is after I took al lthe support off my grill so it's just the mesh n stuff, looks WAY good.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/DSC00945.JPG

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/DSC02405.JPG

SeR_Cyclops

02-06-2008, 09:40 AM

Sweet i might keep my WW kit then i was thinking about trading someone straight up for a 3.5 bumper and side skirts if they payed shipping.

magnumP5

02-06-2008, 10:33 AM

This one is another theory based "myth" that is still not proven either way in my mind. The idea is that the air needs more space after being cooled, so you want a larger ID pipe on the cold-side.

You are of course right about smaller piping providing faster flow, but that isn't the "claimed" basis behind using a smaller hot-side and a larger cold-side. I think that the idea is more or less bogus though, and that using a matched 2.5" for both sides wouldn't show any difference compared to the other way.
Yeah I was trying to think why larger piping would be better for cooler air. I mean, cooler air = denser air so technically the same amount of air would be taking up less volume on the cold side than on the hot side. As for it being 'bogus' I'm not completely sure but just about every other FMIC that was ever made for this car had equally sized piping for the whole thing so who knows.

turbolife

02-06-2008, 11:02 AM

Yeah I was trying to think why larger piping would be better for cooler air. I mean, cooler air = denser air so technically the same amount of air would be taking up less volume on the cold side than on the hot side. As for it being 'bogus' I'm not completely sure but just about every other FMIC that was ever made for this car had equally sized piping for the whole thing so who knows.

Mine and the Perrin have a larger cold pipe as well.

You are correct in thinking that colder air is denser, but hot gasses travel faster than colder gasses (making the larger cold pipe sensible).

AcolyteMSP

02-06-2008, 11:15 AM

Perrin pipes with Corsport size core i would like to see this!

2.0t03speed

02-06-2008, 11:27 AM

theres no way you can do that because the perrins endtanks go out the back of the core twords the motor where as the corksports come out the side.

turbolife

02-06-2008, 11:33 AM

theres no way you can do that because the perrins endtanks go out the back of the core twords the motor where as the corksports come out the side.

Have an IC made with custom tanks. Many places will do that.

2.0t03speed

02-06-2008, 11:45 AM

yea but if you do it that way to make it fit the pipes and look correctly your going to have a core the same height and width unless you want the bottom on your bumper half empty

JCell

02-06-2008, 11:49 AM

all i can say is that i suffer NO lag with the perrin and crush bend 2.5 exhaust piping. honestly i have a hard time staying out of boost

turbolife

02-06-2008, 11:51 AM

all i can say is that i suffer NO lag with the perrin and crush bend 2.5 exhaust piping. honestly i have a hard time staying out of boost

I can second this (minus the exhaust).

I have no issue of lag at all either.

JCell

02-06-2008, 11:51 AM

i can't imagine how fast it'll spool with a 3' exhaust (evil)

Maxx Mazda

02-06-2008, 12:03 PM

nice that is the same front bumper as im going to be using as well. can i ask where did you get your fog lights at and what size they are?

Stock foglights. Also you'll need to do ALOT of work to get the stock lower grill to fit. It's not meant to, so be prepared to fuck with it for a LONG time to get it to work.

Also, I should have mentioned before, no way can you fit a 3.5" core behind the stock bumper. You need the Wings West kit for it to work. W/e stock sucks anyways! I mean, tell me this doesn't look better than stock:

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/1213604691_045284e504.jpg

Maxx Mazda

02-06-2008, 12:04 PM

Have an IC made with custom tanks. Many places will do that.

Ya but the corksport cores are CHEAP like borscht! I still say the MAM pipes with the corksport core was the best way to go...

turbolife

02-06-2008, 12:16 PM

Ya but the corksport cores are CHEAP like borscht! I still say the MAM pipes with the corksport core was the best way to go...

I think your setup looks good, and you make power with it, but I am slightly biased to a different setup.

Both are good solutions, IMO.

SeR_Cyclops

02-06-2008, 12:45 PM

turbolife from like day one i was telling you i was going to get your kit, dont get me wrong i still might get one and compare but it is taking forever and im not blamming you cause great things take time, and plug its dead sexy!!!! oh and +1 for you taking the time to help our community.

Maxx that pic is sick. omg lol i never really liked the WW kit but you just made it rise a notch in my eyes.

Maxx Mazda

02-06-2008, 03:49 PM

505zoom

02-06-2008, 04:06 PM

Also, I should have mentioned before, no way can you fit a 3.5" core behind the stock bumper. You need the Wings West kit for it to work.

I am running a 3.5" thick core with the stock bumper. The MAM and iON cores were 3.5", and a lot of people were running the stock bumper with those.

kamon8404

02-06-2008, 04:13 PM

How do you not like the WW kit? It's subtle enough to looks stock-ish, but different enough that a trained eye will notice.

Have a look here:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123680823

I think that the front looks good, I just hate the wings shooting off the side by the wheel wells.

MsP155

02-06-2008, 04:14 PM

Ya man. Here's an OLD pic from 2 years ago of how it's mounted. Just L brackets and bolts.

The second pic is after I took al lthe support off my grill so it's just the mesh n stuff, looks WAY good.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Maxx%20Mazda/DSC02405.JPG

is it just me or does the FMIC look shifted to the right?

2.0t03speed

02-06-2008, 04:21 PM

lol it is

yashooa

02-06-2008, 05:24 PM

BEHOLD The GIANT that is Perrin!

http://item.slide.com/i/uid=sdWMjX8LeuUxWkUEg3Poaq23k8JGrqlPDvV4ifvgKisVKq-ggVTxFzPz_ZWtiSO_vvUcpKXgv4o

2.0t03speed

02-06-2008, 05:42 PM

lol

SeR_Cyclops

02-06-2008, 06:59 PM

i like the way the front looks but those wings are freaking gay and i hate them.

Maxx Mazda

02-06-2008, 07:06 PM

is it just me or does the FMIC look shifted to the right?

Yup it is. The MAM pipes do that.

505zoom

02-06-2008, 07:34 PM

Yup it is. The MAM pipes do that.

There is room to shift it and get it perfect. Like so:

http://www.msprotege.com/members/119/novshoot8.JPG

Maxx Mazda

02-06-2008, 07:48 PM

There is room to shift it and get it perfect. Like so:

sweet. It's getting painted flat black anyways, so it won't matter lol

SeR_Cyclops

02-06-2008, 08:31 PM

wow you both have the WW kit nice. i dont know if i should replace the fog lights or just take em out?

505zoom

02-06-2008, 09:02 PM

wow you both have the WW kit nice. i dont know if i should replace the fog lights or just take em out?

I actually went back to the stock bumper recently on mine. My vote is for fogs though, looks better that way.

SeR_Cyclops

02-06-2008, 09:08 PM

yeah so the stock ones fit? right

505zoom

02-06-2008, 09:09 PM

Yup.

magnumP5

02-06-2008, 09:14 PM

yeah so the stock ones fit? right
Like a glove...
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jfrank04/Car%20Pictures/Parking%20Garage%2019.JPG

Sorry for the enormous pic.

SeR_Cyclops

02-06-2008, 09:16 PM

nice i guess ill get some off ebay.

Maxx Mazda

02-06-2008, 10:45 PM

They don't fit "directly" though, you need to design brackets, etc to mount them to the rad support. The back of the WW bumper is just straight through.

SeR_Cyclops

02-06-2008, 10:54 PM

what did you use to make the brackets?

Maxx Mazda

02-06-2008, 11:04 PM

what did you use to make the brackets?

I forget. It's easy though. You'll see what you need to do.

505zoom

02-07-2008, 03:43 AM

I epoxied some metal L brackets to the back side of the foglight "cones" on mine. Bolted the fogs to the brackets, overall pretty easy.

SeR_Cyclops

02-07-2008, 09:47 AM

ok i think thats what ill do then.

kamon8404

02-07-2008, 09:56 AM

Like a glove...

Sorry for the enormous pic.

I spy a military decal.

Maxx Mazda

02-07-2008, 11:31 AM

Does anyone else wish the grill opening didn't show half of the bumper rebar? The more I look at it, the more it bugs me.

The Perrin is sweet, but god help ya if you're ever in a front end collision.

JCell

02-07-2008, 11:48 AM

magnumP5

02-07-2008, 01:49 PM

I spy a military decal.
Yeah I used to work as a civilian for the USN and my dad is retired USN. That reminds me though, I no longer work for the USN and I'm too old now to be listed as a dependent so I should probably remove those, LOL.

Does anyone else wish the grill opening didn't show half of the bumper rebar? The more I look at it, the more it bugs me.

The Perrin is sweet, but god help ya if you're ever in a front end collision.
I agree, even though the Perrin core is too big, IMO, I do like how you don't have that 2" strip of bumper support showing - it's such an eyesore. The only moderate compromise I've seen is some people go custom with a taller IC core and cut a little bit out of the support. It's still there, just not as rigid or as visible.

turbolife

02-07-2008, 02:11 PM

I agree, even though the Perrin core is too big, IMO,

What makes you say the Perrin core is too big?

magnumP5

02-07-2008, 02:15 PM

What makes you say the Perrin core is too big?
It's enormous! I like the kit's piping routes but even when I eventually get my built motor, gt28rs and run like 15 psi I still think that core is a little over kill. Don't get me wrong though, I might still end up going with your's just because I need a new FMIC and there isn't too much out there. I'm just afraid I'm going to loose throttle response with such a big core. I also like being able to see the endtanks a little but the lack of a visible bumper support is good. As long as you can make sure the kits you are selling sit correctly (the one on your car seems a little lop-sided) you may very well just have an order from me.

turbolife

02-07-2008, 02:51 PM

It's enormous! I like the kit's piping routes but even when I eventually get my built motor, gt28rs and run like 15 psi I still think that core is a little over kill. Don't get me wrong though, I might still end up going with your's just because I need a new FMIC and there isn't too much out there. I'm just afraid I'm going to loose throttle response with such a big core. I also like being able to see the endtanks a little but the lack of a visible bumper support is good. As long as you can make sure the kits you are selling sit correctly (the one on your car seems a little lop-sided) you may very well just have an order from me.

I notice no more lag then before, I will post a dyno showing where the boost comes on when I go back.

And the core will sit centered. The one that is on the car wasn't wiggled about to sit perfect, and I have a second sample to ensure it will be straight. Once I knew the clutch was toast, I just threw the bumper back on in disgust and left, there was no playing around to center things!

SeR_Cyclops

02-07-2008, 06:17 PM

well the point being that your kit is going to be nice hands down.

kamon8404

02-07-2008, 08:24 PM

yea, what turbolife said!

turbolife FTW!

505zoom

02-07-2008, 09:12 PM

Does anyone else wish the grill opening didn't show half of the bumper rebar? The more I look at it, the more it bugs me.

Same here, exact reason I went with the thumper core.

SeR_Cyclops

02-07-2008, 10:50 PM

yeah the rebar thing looks weird but it will be alright. the thumper core is nicer but you cant buy it ne more.

junya1985

02-07-2008, 11:05 PM

i just bought a used perrin and just put it on love it so far

SeR_Cyclops

02-08-2008, 12:12 AM

yeah i never see used perrin intercoolers selling on the forum and i have the only msp with in 30 min of here and they are all mostly stock.

yashooa

02-08-2008, 08:39 PM

It's enormous! I like the kit's piping routes but even when I eventually get my built motor, gt28rs and run like 15 psi I still think that core is a little over kill. Don't get me wrong though, I might still end up going with your's just because I need a new FMIC and there isn't too much out there. I'm just afraid I'm going to loose throttle response with such a big core. I also like being able to see the endtanks a little but the lack of a visible bumper support is good. As long as you can make sure the kits you are selling sit correctly (the one on your car seems a little lop-sided) you may very well just have an order from me.

Man there is ZERO issue with throttle response and the Perrin.
I have instant, sledge hammer hard acceleration with my Perrin FMIC and my Nick turbo. In Texas during the summer with the humidty and the +100 heat I like knowing I have all that surface area available to cool my intake charge.
The pipes on the Perrin run a very short route into the core and it is almost a straight shot up from the cold side to the throttle body.

BTW the Perrin is no longer being made. I got the last set of IC pipes from them for 100 bucks not long ago.
And this core is badass!@

Notice in my picture a few pages back that the Perrin has a straight in, rear entrance for the pipes not on the side.

505zoom

02-08-2008, 08:54 PM

yeah the rebar thing looks weird but it will be alright. the thumper core is nicer but you cant buy it ne more.

The Thumper core that I am running is the Spearco W.A.V.E. (24 x 8 x 3.5). You can still get it, I am pretty sure atp and turbonetics carry them, but they are super expensive. About 500 bucks.