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mikeyb
01-28-2008, 11:30 AM
Although Ford's being doing it tough over the past few years, the current-generation S197-platformed Mustang has been a runaway sales hit since its launch in 2005. Now Ford is giving its reborn ponycar its first serious freshening. The basics will remain the same, but the workover will be thorough. Coupe and convertible bodystyles will still be offered, with V-6 and a variety of V-8 powertrains.

But here's the shock news: We hear there is a faction at Ford seriously contemplating fitting the new twin turbo EcoBoost V-6 to the 2010 Mustang. As they try to figure out how to meet 35mpg CAFE by 2020, Ford engineers are wondering whether the V-8 has a long term future. The EcoBoost engine, which is currently scheduled to debut in a performance version of the Fusion, could be the more fuel efficient alternative for Mustang in the long term. Depending on spec, the EcoBoost is capable of up to at least 415hp, and has the torque to match a regular V-8.

Traditionalists need not worry, though - V-8s will still be very much part of the Mustang program for 2010. If the EcoBoost version does make production, Ford would probably offer it alongside the V-8, and let buyers decide which they prefer. There won't be much of a price difference, if any - although the base V-6 is a cheaper engine, by the time things like turbochargers are added it's basically V-8 money, say our sources.

Don't expect any changes in today's, base 4.0-liter V-6 offering, as its prime purpose is motivating low-end and rental-fleet Mustangs. But the Mustang GT model's V-8-currently a 4.6 liter, SOHC, three-valver-will be replaced by a new 5.0-liter engine that's essentially an evolution of the old architecture. In fact, the new 5.0 may even appear in a limited edition run-out series of current model Mustang GTs - is it finally time for the reborn Boss 302?

One Ford engineer confirmed that the work done to create the Bullitt-edition Mustang's uprated 4.6 "has a future." That engine, described in our first test story (January 2008) remains internally stock, but breathes better due to a Ford Racing open element, cold air intake system, revised mufflers, a new crank damper (which ups the redline by 250 revs), and revised fuel mapping. This engine management programming allows the use of regular fuel, but switches to a more aggressive timing curve when it detects premium in the tank. The result is 315 horsepower, up from the current GT's 300. The Bullitt's V-8 is freer and quicker revving than before, and sounds great due to the new intake. There's no reason to think the next gen GT's powerplant won't take its cue from this technology, and thus get the same tricks. Something like 325 to 350 horses out of the new 5.0-liter V-8 sounds feasible.

That takes care of standard Mustang models. What about the Shelby versions?

Our intel had the 500-horsepower, supercharged 5.4-liter V-8 in the Ford Shelby GT500 pegged for a two-year or so life-that being 2007 and 2008, perhaps rolling into '09 depending on how well it sold, and what Shelby's own product plans were. Demand has proven strong, and we can confirm there'll be a Ford built, developed, and produced Shelby GT500 version of the 2010 Mustang.

Final powertrain has yet to be decided, but Ford has been testing supercharged versions of the new 5.0-liter V-8 to see whether it makes the horsepower needed. Since Chrysler and GM have potentially bigger horsepower numbers on tap for the Challenger and Camaro, Ford has to be looking at more than 500hp for its flagship Mustang. The upcoming GT500 KR punches out 540 horses, and it's our hunch this could become the standard Shelby powerplant in the short term.

Model rollout plans are still being finalized, but the current scenario is that 2009 will be an abbreviated model year, those cars being identical to the 2008. Then, the 2010s will be introduced in spring 2009, much as Ford did when it introduced the 19641/2 Mustang in April of that year, which then dovetailed into the '65.The biggest news from a design standpoint will be the addition of a muscular-looking shoulder hump just aft of the door openings. The doors remain the same, as do the roof and the fixed, triangle-shaped windows in the sail panels. The new kink is said to resemble that worn by the Dodge Charger, but a bit more flowing line. Front and rear fascias also get a tuneup. We haven't seen the new nose, but it wouldn't surprise us if it looked a little more like the current Ford Shelby GT500. Out back, the taillights are massaged a bit, and the rear bumper gets a 45 degree bevel job, adding more surface detail to the current rear's squarish lines. Expect new colors and wheel designs, too.

Taking inspiration from the Giugiaro-bodied Mustang concept show on the cover of Motor Trend a year ago (March 2007) Ford will factory-offer, as an option, a large glass roof panel that'll stretch from the windshield header to the leading edge of the rear window. It won't be a single, sweeping piece of glass as shown on the Italian-built concept for reasons of cost and structural rigidity, but the effect is much the same. The heavily tinted, fixed glass panel replaces most of the current metal roof stamping, creating an airy feeling from inside.

The interior breaks away from the current cabin, which drew inspiration from the classic 1967-1968 Mustangs. The new IP will be more driver-centric and leave more room in the center stack for a larger nav screen and audio gear. Seat fabrics and colors also will be shuffled.

By the middle of 2009, the new millennium version of Ford versus Chevy versus Dodge will be in full swing, with car buyers getting another bite of an apple that hasn't been ripe since 1970. The Challenger will have Hemi power, and GM has a basket full of six-to-seven liter small-block V-8s to stuff beneath the Camaro's hood. Both Mustang competitors have independent rear suspension, which is an advantage in terms of ride and handling, although the quarter-mile crowd still enjoys its live axles. But Ford has momentum on its side, as well as a convertible body style which neither Chevy nor Dodge will offer, at least at launch. Watch this space for more on the upcoming American musclecar showdown.

- MotorTrend

TinmanMS6
01-28-2008, 11:38 AM
It's crazy how fast and how hugely the 12-years-from-now CAFE numbers are impacting automakers' plans. The problem they're going to run into will be that as long as the V8s are available, people are going to buy them, and CAFE numbers are based on sales, not lineup. Yes, the turbo-V6 with similar power and torque and much-improved fuel economy would make much more sense, but there are going to be a lot of people who just aren't going to accept that in their muscle cars.

Flash5
01-28-2008, 01:30 PM
Yea traditionalists are not going to like the whole TT V-6, I mean if I ever heard a mustang go by and it sounded like a supra or some other turbo car, idk how I would react, prolly laugh. But overall, its a risky move.

NCZ13
01-28-2008, 01:53 PM
do we honestly need another mustang model?

i mean tehres enough different types and trims of mustang for every illegal thats living in this country.

TinmanMS6
01-28-2008, 02:04 PM
do we honestly need another mustang model?

i mean tehres enough different types and trims of mustang for every illegal thats living in this country.

Somewhat inappropriate.

But this is another powertrain alternative. We don't really need another option, we need a more fuel-efficient alternative, but there are going to be a lot of people who would shit bricks if they got rid of the V8. My guess is that they slowly phase the V8 out of the GT as people see the benefits of the TT V6, and reserve (boosted) V8s for the higher performance models.

boostdog
01-28-2008, 02:53 PM
i think if gm can get the mpg out of the corvette ford should be able to do the same with the mustang. I personally like the idea of a tt v6. I hope they build it.

also the italian concept mustang was horrible looking...i hope it looks nothing like that car!

autoxes
01-28-2008, 02:57 PM
It's a matter of aerodynamics, vettes are more so by far, and this is where a lot of the gas mileage comes from. Also, they have a six speeds trans, which also equates to a higher mpg rating.

CantCMe
01-28-2008, 03:01 PM
When I read that, I was reminded of the '84 Mustang SVO...
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1982-1983-1984-1985-1986-ford-mustang-18.jpg
and we all know how long that model lasted.

TinmanMS6
01-28-2008, 03:09 PM
When I read that, I was reminded of the '84 Mustang SVO...
and we all know how long that model lasted.

LOL! My father-in-law has one of those...his second. I don't know why, but he loves that thing.

TXMazdaSpeeder
01-28-2008, 03:22 PM
Just FYI, i work at ford and the only thing i can confirm is the release of the bullitt model. We havent seen a new 5.0 nor heard anything of the sorts, as far as i know the 09 mustangs will be mechanically the same as the 08's however we wont hear any 2010 rumors till mid to late 2009.

CantCMe
01-28-2008, 03:39 PM
LOL! My father-in-law has one of those...his second. I don't know why, but he loves that thing.

Believe it or not, I've heard that they're almost bullet-proof. I saw a couple years ago that were dynoe'd at around 375whp. That's alot coming from a 2.3 litre 4-banger made in '84.

TinmanMS6
01-28-2008, 03:41 PM
Believe it or not, I've heard that they're almost bullet-proof. I saw a couple years ago that were dynoe'd at around 375whp. That's alot coming from a 2.3 litre 4-banger made in '84.

Yeah, and I've also heard that, due to the reduced weight up front, it's the best-handling Mustang of that generation, and can actually hold its own in a straight line. Still, I would never seek out an '80's Mustang unless I were big into drag racing.

NCZ13
01-28-2008, 04:01 PM
im sorry if you think thats innapropriate but whatever.

i believe we do need a more fuel efficient model, but i dont understand fords obsession with having 50 different types and trims for their cars. more so the focus and mustang then anything else but still.

look at how many mustang models there are.
coupe, vert, GT, GT500, cobras, boss, bullit, cali GT, ... and theres that old school one with the horizontal slats (dont know what they are called) that are on the rear window... do we need all of those?
i just went to the site, i counted 13 different models on the ford website.

hell the focus has a trim level for every single option pretty much (not sure about the new model, but the old focus certainly did.

all im saying is it feels like ford is beating a dead horse with all these types of mustangs...

tunersteve
01-28-2008, 04:15 PM
I'd actually like to see them get rid of the NA V6 all together and go with the EcoBoost version. Then they come out with a new V8 that makes the GT competitive with the upcoming Z28 and Challenger R/T. The smartest thing Ford did was make that new Mustang in 2005 when they ran away with the market. In the next 2 years, however, they won't have the same success. I've heard their Mustang sales have basically tanked, so its obvious that people may be waiting for the Camaro/Challenger. Hell, the new Tiburon is gonna have a V8.

TinmanMS6
01-28-2008, 04:16 PM
im sorry if you think thats innapropriate but whatever.

i believe we do need a more fuel efficient model, but i dont understand fords obsession with having 50 different types and trims for their cars. more so the focus and mustang then anything else but still.

look at how many mustang models there are.
coupe, vert, GT, GT500, cobras, boss, bullit, cali GT, ... and theres that old school one with the horizontal slats (dont know what they are called) that are on the rear window... do we need all of those?
i just went to the site, i counted 13 different models on the ford website.

hell the focus has a trim level for every single option pretty much (not sure about the new model, but the old focus certainly did.

all im saying is it feels like ford is beating a dead horse with all these types of mustangs...

Believe me, I've made this same rant myself about a dozen times, and someone makes it every time there's a Mustang thread. I'd be really sick of it if it weren't so damned true.

BTW, how many people that are buying Mustangs have actually seen Bullitt? There is supposed to be a remake coming out with Brad Pitt, though. I'm sure it will be released right along with the new 2010 Bullitt Mustang.

tunersteve
01-28-2008, 04:24 PM
Personally, I don't consider coupe/vert to be 2 different models. There are different trim levels:

V6 > GT > Cal Special > Bullitt > Shelby GT > GT500

The Cal Special, Bullitt, and Shelby GT are pretty much the same car with different goodies on them. They are packages that can be added to a GT.
Even within the V6 and GT trim, there are the deluxe and premium.


im sorry if you think thats innapropriate but whatever.

i believe we do need a more fuel efficient model, but i dont understand fords obsession with having 50 different types and trims for their cars. more so the focus and mustang then anything else but still.

look at how many mustang models there are.
coupe, vert, GT, GT500, cobras, boss, bullit, cali GT, ... and theres that old school one with the horizontal slats (dont know what they are called) that are on the rear window... do we need all of those?
i just went to the site, i counted 13 different models on the ford website.

hell the focus has a trim level for every single option pretty much (not sure about the new model, but the old focus certainly did.

all im saying is it feels like ford is beating a dead horse with all these types of mustangs...

nealric
01-28-2008, 04:49 PM
i mean tehres enough different types and trims of mustang for every illegal thats living in this country.

I have, on occasion, driven illegally. Does that mean I can have a mustang designed just for me?

Hughes412
01-28-2008, 04:52 PM
It's crazy how fast and how hugely the 12-years-from-now CAFE numbers are impacting automakers' plans. The problem they're going to run into will be that as long as the V8s are available, people are going to buy them, and CAFE numbers are based on sales, not lineup. Yes, the turbo-V6 with similar power and torque and much-improved fuel economy would make much more sense, but there are going to be a lot of people who just aren't going to accept that in their muscle cars.

You know, if you would have said that before I got the mazda and into the tuner thing I would have agreed with you. I like to think of myself as a die hard V8 guy. But after seeing what can happen with FI applications I would go with the TTV6. And most of the people that think that buy these are 20's to mid 30s (for the most part). This group knows what the turbo engines can do.

TinmanMS6
01-28-2008, 04:57 PM
You know, if you would have said that before I got the mazda and into the tuner thing I would have agreed with you. I like to think of myself as a die hard V8 guy. But after seeing what can happen with FI applications I would go with the TTV6. And most of the people that think that buy these are 20's to mid 30s (for the most part). This group knows what the turbo engines can do.

Yeah, but if Ford announced tomorrow that there would be no more V8 in the Mustang GT, Mustang fans everywhere would literally shit a chicken.

tunersteve
01-28-2008, 05:00 PM
Yeah, but if Ford announced tomorrow that there would be no more V8 in the Mustang GT, Mustang fans everywhere would literally shit a chicken.

True, but Ford has the capability to build a more efficient V8. They still don't utilize cylinder de-activation, and I would imagine switching to a 4-valve setup would add in fuel economy. Hell, maybe even a DI V8 would be better.

TinmanMS6
01-28-2008, 05:06 PM
True, but Ford has the capability to build a more efficient V8. They still don't utilize cylinder de-activation, and I would imagine switching to a 4-valve setup would add in fuel economy. Hell, maybe even a DI V8 would be better.

Yes, cylinder deactivation, 4-valves/cylinder, and DI would make a world of difference. That'd actually be a pretty sweet motor. I can't really think of anyone else who's put DI on a V8 yet. I'm sure BMW or somebody has, though.

TXMazdaSpeeder
01-28-2008, 06:55 PM
the 7.3L ford diesel v8 powerstrokes and 6.0L diesel powerstrokes are DIT

seanmcsean
01-28-2008, 08:47 PM
do we honestly need another mustang model?

i mean tehres enough different types and trims of mustang for every illegal thats living in this country.

Not only is this a ridiculously inappropriate comment, but you didn't read the article at all.

The article was about rumored power choices for the 2010 model. There were no mentions of any special editions aside from a possible future Shelby. The article was about the evolution of the pony car under the CAFE standards.

You just saw "mustang" and "different engine" and assumed it was another special edition.

Read the whole article before you comment.

TinmanMS6
01-28-2008, 08:50 PM
the 7.3L ford diesel v8 powerstrokes and 6.0L diesel powerstrokes are DIT

All diesels are direct injection.

tunersteve
01-28-2008, 08:53 PM
Not only is this a ridiculously inappropriate comment, but you didn't read the article at all.

The article was about rumored power choices for the 2010 model. There were no mentions of any special editions aside from a possible future Shelby. The article was about the evolution of the pony car under the CAFE standards.

You just saw "mustang" and "different engine" and assumed it was another special edition.

Read the whole article before you comment.

pwned!

And, as far as the diesel comment, I didn't even waste my time pointing out the obvious.

TXMazdaSpeeder
01-28-2008, 09:02 PM
lol ok i dont know, all i do is change oil and fuel filters on them other than that my diesel knowledge is very limited.

tunersteve
01-28-2008, 09:13 PM
lol ok i dont know, all i do is change oil and fuel filters on them other than that my diesel knowledge is very limited.

Hey its cool. I didn't know where direct injection came from until I started reading up on it a few months ago.