ran 110 octane, wow! [Archive]

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 05:56 PM

so today i finally found a store that carries some 110 octane so i gave it a shot to see if the pinging noise i was hearing was in fact pinging. i had reasons to believe it was engine resonance according to some friends. normally i would get audible pinging at 11psi in this cold weather, and early as 8psi in warmer weather... i'm using a gt28rs btw.

i bought a 5 gallon barrel and initially mixed in about 3 gallons of it with what i had left in the tank... 1-2 gallons, my gas light was on.

i did a 3rd gear pull at 11psi from 3.5k rpm... no pinging!!! sweet. so i raised the boost in small increment carefully listening for any pinging. not the slightest hint.

now the fun begins... 17psi. OMG, this is what my car should've been doing all along. this is what i should've drove away with when i went to get it tuned at altered atmosphere many months ago. it was a completely different animal now. the turbo absolutely screams, i never heard it that loud before. its like i set it free.

punching it from 3rd gear, the car just throws you into your seat and won't let you back until you shift, and then just throws you right back. no signs of it letting up either, pulling hard all the way to redline. i dunno how to describe it but it makes my stomach feel funny haha. my buddy who was riding shotgun said the difference felt like when he first drove his car after he tuned his 350z-TT.

i feel like i'm making at least a good extra 50-60whp putting me at at least 310whp. the car feels amazing. sorry for the ramble, but i had to share my great experience w/ all the good folks here b/c you guys truly understand the extremely difficult path it takes to get an msp where you want it to be. i got a taste of it today, and it was soooo sooo sweet :P

vids to come...

edit: heres the vid...http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8...2b017609cc.htm (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8cbc87f6-1bbf-40bb-8055-9a2b017609cc.htm)

ForceFed

01-22-2008, 05:58 PM

Good to hear..but if you keep using your ears to hear detonation....You'll be hearing Zoom Zoom Boom soon...Forged or not.

shane02pro5

01-22-2008, 06:00 PM

Man you beat me to it! Did you ever get you're issues worked out!? Bandaids are very bad!!!

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 06:00 PM

Good to hear..but if you keep using your ears to hear detonation....You'll be hearing Zoom Zoom Boom soon...Forged or not.

checked the plugs, they look fantastic, better than when i was running 8psi on pump. compression test is a healthy 185-190 also at all 4.

low_psi

01-22-2008, 06:06 PM

Still running the AFC w/ 440's? Good to hear the car is running strong.

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 06:07 PM

yes i know about the risk, i would never do this on a consistently basis. the purpose of this was to find out if it was indeed pinging or if it was engine resonance.

some of you guys may know the problems i was having, which resulted in my multiple retunes... we heard detonation on a knock amp, but nothing else really showed signs of detonation nor was there reason for it. i have 8.5:1 pistons, plenty of fuel, great afr, low boost on a bigger turbo, colder plugs, pulled a crapload of timing... i mean down to static where it was making the noise, and no dips on the dyno chart.

experts were telling me it most likely resonance, but told me to try running some 110 to find out for sure b/c there would be no way it would ping w/ that. hence my little fun today w/ the 110 :)

don't worry it'll be getting properly returned w/ meth injection now that i know it was indeed pinging.

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 06:10 PM

Still running the AFC w/ 440's? Good to hear the car is running strong.

no not anymore. i changed over to michrotech little over a year ago after i basically overhauled my car.

slo4now

01-22-2008, 06:10 PM

Good to hear..but if you keep using your ears to hear detonation....You'll be hearing Zoom Zoom Boom soon...Forged or not.

x2 same thing i was thinking.

ForceFed

01-22-2008, 06:13 PM

no not anymore. i changed over to michrotech little over a year ago after i basically overhauled my car.MT too huh...thats what I have sitting here waiting to go on the P5.

yashooa

01-22-2008, 06:16 PM

That is the way my car feels at 18PSI.
I plan to run even higher later on. I have a J&S though so I don't worry about pinging. Congrats on the good run. (drive2)

shane02pro5

01-22-2008, 06:17 PM

I hope everything works out and you're able to keep the boost up when it gets warm again!

How much timing are you pulling at 17psi?

I'm hoping to get away for a little while with my J&S pulling up to 20 degrees and my Haltech F10 and hitting close to 20psi on my IHI turbo. But I will be going full standalone and bigger turbo in due time!

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 06:18 PM

MT too huh...thats what I have sitting here waiting to go on the P5.

nice choice, i like mine alot. it has its quirks like any standalone, but i like it overall.

ForceFed

01-22-2008, 06:19 PM

nice choice, i like mine alot. like mine alot for the most part, but it has its quirks like any standalone.
What have you noticed...Lets discuss before I even run into it.
Knowledge is power.

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 06:27 PM

What have you noticed...Lets discuss before I even run into it.
Knowledge is power.

cold start issues. and seeing that you live in ohio, you probably see similar weather as myself. other owners seem to have the same problem and as far i know no one has gotten it perfectly right. for the most part it will turn over in a crank or two, but in the very cold temperatures like today, it may not even turn over. i have a new battery and starter too. its bad enough to be annoying, but not not enough for me to regret buying it.

ForceFed

01-22-2008, 06:30 PM

cold start issues. and seeing that you live in ohio, you probably see similar weather as myself. other owners seem to have the same problem and as far i know no one has gotten it perfectly right. for the most part it will turn over in a crank or two, but in the very cold temperatures like today, it may not even turn over. i have a new battery and starter too. its bad enough to be annoying, but not not enough for me to regret buying it.Whether it "Turns" over or not shouldn't be an issue of the ECU?
And as far as extreme cold weather..My car will be a toy..so its not driven in the cold/Bad stuff.
Hell..I've had it almost 5 months and drivin it 5 miles...LOL!

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 06:30 PM

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 06:33 PM

Whether it "Turns" over or not shouldn't be an issue of the ECU?
And as far as extreme cold weather..My car will be a toy..so its not driven in the cold/Bad stuff.
Hell..I've had it almost 5 months and drivin it 5 miles...LOL!

looks like you're golden then :)

i dunno if you're dragging your car as your toy, but if you are i setup a flatshifting system w/ the microtech using its 2 step feature that'll hold your boost in between shifts if you're interested.

ForceFed

01-22-2008, 06:45 PM

looks like you're golden then :)

i dunno if you're dragging your car as your toy, but if you are i setup a flatshifting system w/ the microtech using its 2 step feature that'll hold your boost in between shifts if you're interested.It will see some strip duty...But I am much more looking forward to running it ad Mid Ohio and the likes.
300HP protege on a road course FTMFW!

An I saw the Thread about flat foot shifting....I may look into it.

avarela86

01-22-2008, 06:49 PM

why are you having pinging issues at such low PSI? You have plenty of fuel and everything...is it the temperature where you are at? Thankgod i'm in Florida if that's the case.

djarkitek

01-22-2008, 10:41 PM

videos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mspHtown

01-22-2008, 11:35 PM

how was your clutch holding up with the increased torque?

you said it was slipping previously so i would imagine it is now?

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 11:38 PM

That is the way my car feels at 18PSI.
I plan to run even higher later on. I have a J&S though so I don't worry about pinging. Congrats on the good run. (drive2)

thanks :) how do you like the J&S

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 11:40 PM

how was your clutch holding up with the increased torque?

you said it was slipping previously so i would imagine it is now?

its was holding it fine suprisingly. i haven't used the 2 step since it started slipping, but its holding great now. i'm kinda afraid to use it now haha.

mspHtown

01-22-2008, 11:44 PM

its was holding it fine suprisingly. i haven't used the 2 step since it started slipping, but its holding great now. i'm kinda afraid to use it now haha.

thats great to hear! im glad its holding for you.

kicker22705

01-22-2008, 11:46 PM

here a little video of tonights action...

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8cbc87f6-1bbf-40bb-8055-9a2b017609cc.htm

03.5MSP

01-22-2008, 11:54 PM

ForceFed

01-23-2008, 12:00 AM

Nice..When he gets a good /Even jump with you..He reels you in on the top end for sure.
Nice though...It really looks like it Hauls.

junya1985

01-23-2008, 12:05 AM

that thing is def. moving good job

kicker22705

01-23-2008, 12:06 AM

Damn Mike!! That thing hauls. Good to hear about the clutch holding and that you figured out what it was for sure. You have any ideas on what company you going to go with for the water/meth kit?

here is a GB going on.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123692946&highlight=water+methanol&page=8

thanks marco, i wasn't aware of that. i'll definately keep an eye on that.

Nice..When he gets a good /Even jump with you..He reels you in on the top end for sure.
Nice though...It really looks like it Hauls.

yeah he has some monster topend, espeically w/ the centrifugal blower & lower gear ratios. brakeboosting definely helped me get some big jumps, and hold him off.

that thing is def. moving good job
thanks

boostdprotegelx

01-23-2008, 01:46 AM

werd!.. sounds good dude. good pull.

avarela86

01-23-2008, 02:05 AM

very nice runs... How is your weight...any sound system or anything like that? at 17PSI you should be in the 350whp with our turbo. Turbo is prolly maxed out at 17 as well.

kicker22705

01-23-2008, 08:32 AM

werd!.. sounds good dude. good pull. thank you, i'm gonna have to do one w/ the windows down when it warms up. you can really hear the turbo scream then.

very nice runs... How is your weight...any sound system or anything like that? at 17PSI you should be in the 350whp with our turbo. Turbo is prolly maxed out at 17 as well.

i have a lightened load... i got rid of the stock woofer/amp/box, cf hood, lost a lot of weight getting rid of the stock cast piping, 17lb wheels, etc. 350whp is possible, maybe a bit higher, since i made 261 at 11psi. the turbo's got plenty of life left. 17psi is in its peak efficiency range, all he way up too 22. It can probably crank out another 10psi w/o falling out of the efficiency range.

turbolife

01-23-2008, 08:40 AM

Nice man, looking good!

K. Soze

01-23-2008, 11:13 AM

If you wanted to jump in on the group buy, I'll let you sneak in. Our kits are cheaper than everyone even without the discount. So, with the discount, you'll be getting your stuff for cheap.

Let me know if you're interested. :)

sandspeed

01-23-2008, 11:46 AM

Love that video bro. I've watched all the other ones you were racing the same supercharged 350, now you've got him by several car lengths...very impressive!! Keep up the good work, your speed is one of a kind.

Maxx Mazda

01-23-2008, 02:14 PM

When I went to 110 I bumped my timing by like 11 degrees. It was sweet. Spun all through 3rd though, so it was all for nought lol!

That was on 24psi.

KySpeed

01-23-2008, 04:58 PM

-edit.

whos your tuner?

Nice runs, your car should run like that on pumpgas!.

If theres a problem low in your timing map it will cause the car to ping throughout the whole run.

kicker22705

01-23-2008, 04:59 PM

Nice man, looking good!
thanks :)

Love that video bro. I've watched all the other ones you were racing the same supercharged 350, now you've got him by several car lengths...very impressive!! Keep up the good work, your speed is one of a kind.

thanks for the kind words. yeah its refreshing to finally beating him after chasing him ever since he got blown. last time we raced, i didn't even get it on video, but he got me by a good 6-7 cars.

When I went to 110 I bumped my timing by like 11 degrees. It was sweet. Spun all through 3rd though, so it was all for nought lol!

That was on 24psi.

damn, thats insane. i didn't have any traction problems in 3rd gear and it was pretty cold out. i can only imagine what 24psi feels like. kinda sux you had any traction, kinda takes alot of the fun out. i bet 4th gear was fun tho, and 120 came up in a blink.

kicker22705

01-23-2008, 05:09 PM

nice runs, sounds like you need some timing control.

I'm wondering if the stock timing map isn't smooth enough for how fast your car transists over the loadcells. In reality it probably just needs to be blocked up or smoothed up some. One bad spot low in a map will cause a motor to ping all the way through the run even with the ecu pulling timing. Knock is very audible in the protege on of the loudest cars i've ever herd.

You should easily make 300whp with the rs on pump. Close to 400 on racegas.

also your plugs weren't stained white from the racegas? I cant see knock on my plugs from them always being stained from leaded gas.

the pinging occurs from 3500-5000rpm on pump gas, not a hint before or after. im not sure if that helps explain anything.

as far as the plugs being stained, it didn't look much different from when i normally run pump gas. there was some white residue, like i normally get when i check my plugs from pump gas. i mixed about 3 gallons of 110 with about 6 gallons of 93 so it may not have been enough to stain them.

yeah i was expecting to easily make 300whp when i went to get tuned many months ago, but the pinging scared the tuner and i from pushing it past 11psi. didn't know the cause, still don't, but now i at least now it is pinging and not just engine resonance.

Maxx Mazda

01-23-2008, 06:12 PM

KySpeed

01-24-2008, 04:38 AM

Plugs won't stain from ping. I had one break on me once from detonation, but they'll generally be a normal color. Because of the race gas your plugs will be orange as shit now it's kinda cool.

24psi was sweet, but it's not for a street car. I just mounted a switch in my glovebox that switches maps from race to pump gas so I don't have to pull out the laptop to do it.

Thats odd,

After about 10-20 gallons of leaded gas, my mani, exhaust valves, sparkplugs and full exhaust are stained white.

I wish i would've been able to tune my protege with timing, i had a emanage but the timing function wouldn't ever work.

yashooa

01-24-2008, 01:20 PM

thanks :) how do you like the J&S
Well it kept my stock block together with over 20PSI on a NICK turbo with a lot of supporting mods of course but the fact that it did not blow to pieces when my wastegate actuator failed and it boosted sky high speaks well of the J&S and the MPI. When the motor went all it did was crack a ringland and it still ran fine! But it did suck all the oil into the intercooler because of the MASSIVE blowby.
I ran 17PSI all the time on pump gas with the stock block for about a year with it in here :)

Maxx Mazda

01-24-2008, 04:27 PM

The best I can do at our altitude is 18psi on pump gas with my T3.

steedspeed

01-24-2008, 04:38 PM

If you run a methanol injection system you can do close to the same boost but for way less money for the methanol than 110 octane gas. I make some parts for Horsepower Freaks M3 turbo kit methanol system and their power on 92 octane + methanol is very impressive. The methanol also lasts a long time as it only comes on at certain boost levels. (yeah I know, All the time then lol!.)

K. Soze

01-24-2008, 04:49 PM

^^^ Exactly.

kicker22705

01-24-2008, 05:53 PM

yeah 110 wasn't cheap at all, 50 bux for a 5 gallon keg. i'm lookin foward to tuning w/ this meth kit and seeing what kind of numbers i can put down.

K. Soze

01-24-2008, 06:16 PM

Word. :)

djarkitek

01-24-2008, 11:23 PM

man dude you're car gets so much more impressive so quickly...*jealous**

kicker22705

01-25-2008, 09:03 AM

man dude you're car gets so much more impressive so quickly...*jealous**

haha thanks. don't be jealous, this like a mazda family (friday)

kicker22705

01-26-2008, 11:05 AM

-edit.

whos your tuner?

Nice runs, your car should run like that on pumpgas!.

If theres a problem low in your timing map it will cause the car to ping throughout the whole run.

i have been tuning my car at a shop called Altered Atmosphere (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/www.alteredatmosphere.com). What do you mean low in my timing map? low rpm range? It actually just pings from 3500 rpm to 5000, not thru the whole band. the car runs great w/o pinging above 5000rpm, we were actually able to add some timing there. and yes i totally agree it should run like that on pump gas, still trying to figure out why it doesn't. i'm 90% sure its not the tune, i was there when it was being tuned and seen the maps myself. He tuned the car for two days, or like 6-8 hours trying to get it right.

Well it kept my stock block together with over 20PSI on a NICK turbo with a lot of supporting mods of course but the fact that it did not blow to pieces when my wastegate actuator failed and it boosted sky high speaks well of the J&S and the MPI. When the motor went all it did was crack a ringland and it still ran fine! But it did suck all the oil into the intercooler because of the MASSIVE blowby.
I ran 17PSI all the time on pump gas with the stock block for about a year with it in here :)

thats pretty impressive, i think i'll have to pick one up. quick question... i was looking at the features and pictures of it, and it appears to have a headphone jack. can you listen to the knock if you hook up a pair of headphone?

Maxx Mazda

01-26-2008, 04:25 PM

You need more timing up top because everything happens so much faster. That why it won't ping at high RPM. Usually in the midrange is where people end up blowing their engine.

03.5MSP

01-26-2008, 10:31 PM

Altered Atmosphere (http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/)

fixed the link for you.

KySpeed

01-27-2008, 06:12 AM

You need more timing up top because everything happens so much faster. That why it won't ping at high RPM. Usually in the midrange is where people end up blowing their engine.

This is true however, this isn't his issue.

His issue is related to peak tq timing. I'm 99% sure its tune related at 11psi. And race gas is fixing it. Your not attempting to run your car on 87 or 89 are you?

If your comfortable working on your tune.

Block up where your problem is, ex 6-7deg. in all load cells. then ramp up around 2deg every 1k rpms. Whatever works. If i knew more about the microtech or had the software I would look over your map. if 7 or 6's knock (which it shouldn't) go down untill it doesnt. FYI on my evo i run 2's and 3's. But that is because of my cam selection and gears. But i tried like hell to get it to run where it did stock 8's and never could, finally i just yanked timing out and fixed it. I know its comparing a protege to a evo but i'm just saying. If your AFR's are fine. IE. under 12.0 Timing is your problem. Yank some out or block it up. or both. You will fix your problem

In your midrange areas your ecu will cross many loadcells very quickly. This causes rapid changes in cyl pressure that can trigger knock. Block style timing isn't the best way to go about things but it is a very good tool to use in fixing knock easily.

Just because you don't hear it pinging doesn't mean its not knocking. I promise if its kocking that bad in midrange its knocking through the whole run.

Remember the block is being rung at 6400hz our ears don't exactly hear that.

Fix this problem before you upgrade to meth.

jeffmsp

01-27-2008, 05:55 PM

the first thing you should so is either hook up a digital multimeter or use a proper data logging device to see what exactly your knock sensor is doing. Should give you a pretty good idea of where you need more fuel in your tuning.

The reason he was knocking at such low boost is because the potato is flowing more cfm at the same boost level as a T25R. I doubt your fuel system is running out on that low level of boost on pump gas so maybe you just need to retune or look for other problems.

kicker22705

01-27-2008, 09:15 PM

haha thanks marco.

maybe you guys can look at my settings/maps (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3633957#post3633957) and datalogged info and see what can be done... thanks.

KySpeed

01-28-2008, 06:20 AM