going forged

[alca0811]

Okay so here is the deal. If I don't sell my car, then I wanna go big. I am talking about trying to max out the car for HP and TQ. Bigger turbo, bigger FMIC, bigger brakes, etc. If I do go bigger turbo and bigger boost (rockon), I know that I need to go forged. Now my question for all of you in the peanut gallery is this. . .

Do I need a whole new forged engine, or just the pistons and rods?

Oh yeah, one more thing. What do forged parts do anyways??

[ForceFed]

Do I need a whole new forged engine, or just the pistons and rods?

Oh yeah, one more thing. What do forged parts do anyways??This is all I needed to hear from you.

If you want more power..buy a different car...because you obviously lack the knowledge to do any kind of work yourself.....So this is not the car for you to be modding.

They are not Mod friendly...and do require hands on work..Which it does not appear you have the Technical know how to tackle.

Do yourself a favor....Leave it alone and buy a car that more suits your "wants" as it is.

[mspHtown]

i just went through a complete rebuild. you do not just buy pistons and rods and call it a day. if you want it done right, you will end up spending tons of money and time.

[Velocifero]

they try harder not to break. usually lighter, and more expensive obviously. basically they are stronger to with stand the added strains you are loading on the engine. If you are really gonna go big, you are going to need tranny work, head work, fuel, ecu, basically do a lot and youspend a lot. By no means am I saying don't go all out, just don't expect to only do a couple things and be able to get away with huge numbers. If you want to get around 300 you could probably get away with forged rods and proper fuel/ ecu, and it'd be easier of course with a bigger turbo, but the tranny will be in question at and beyond that. You def are going to need to improve the diff. cause extra power is gonna destroy it. look into cryotreating, shot peening, and strengthened gears, possibly a custom tranny built. You are also gonna have to be concerned with crank walk, If you are serious and when you get to it I have a knife edged and balanced crank shaft that I am not going to use. clutch, gonna need one that can handle this as well.

[ForceFed]

i just went through a complete rebuild. you do not just buy pistons and rods and call it a day. if you want it done right, you will end up spending tons of money and time.
Well...Techinically..from the Engine Point of View...You do just need new pistons and Rods.....The Crank is Forged already...However..you will still need to have all of the machine work properly done and the New Assembly properly re-assembled.

He could go as little as that...with no head work at all other than Milling the head before re-installing it...

But from the sounds of his post..He doesn't have a clue and should just leave it alone.
If he wants more power..He should be prepared to spend A LOT because it doesnt sound like he'll be turning many wrench's himself.....Or he should just buy a car that fits his power requirements and "wants".

[Witchdoktor]

there are some powerfull built proteges in the houston area. get with some of those guys. drive in one and see if it's something you'd want to pursue. they can tell you what a build consists of, supporting mods, upgrading stock systems, and what kind of price range you're looking at.

[mspHtown]

Well...Techinically..from the Engine Point of View...You do just need new pistons and Rods.....The Crank is Forged already...However..you will still need to have all of the machine work properly done and the New Assembly properly re-assembled.

He could go as little as that...with no head work at all other than Milling the head before re-installing it...

But from the sounds of his post..He doesn't have a clue and should just leave it alone.
If he wants more power..He should be prepared to spend A LOT because it doesnt sound like he'll be turning many wrench's himself.....Or he should just buy a car that fits his power requirements and "wants".

ummm for a complete rebuild for what he is looking at, no its not jsut the pistons and rods. all of the little things add up.


maybe we are looking at this differently, im not saying everything needs to be a forged piece, im saying that beyond the pistons and rods there are tons of parts to buy and tons of work to do.

[ForceFed]

ummm for a complete rebuild for what he is looking at, no its not jsut the pistons and rods. all of the little things add up.


maybe we are looking at this differently, im not saying everything needs to be a forged piece, im saying that beyond the pistons and rods there are tons of parts to buy and tons of work to do.Do you think "I" don't know this ?
For a Forged motor....His main Needs are the Rods and pistons....Yes I know there are a ton of other things such as Gasket set, Machine work, New timing belt, bearings, Good hardware, and mainly...someone with some knowledge on how to assemble the thing.

Lots of little things do add up..But in reality..there isn't much to bulding a motor.

I do think we are thinking about this differently....There are some Inherent things that naturally come along with a rebuild...so I am not Including the BLATENTLY obvious.....But he is likely not to know what that entails..Hence my idea of leaving it alone.

[alca0811]

Well...Techinically..from the Engine Point of View...You do just need new pistons and Rods.....The Crank is Forged already...However..you will still need to have all of the machine work properly done and the New Assembly properly re-assembled.

He could go as little as that...with no head work at all other than Milling the head before re-installing it...

But from the sounds of his post..He doesn't have a clue and should just leave it alone.
If he wants more power..He should be prepared to spend A LOT because it doesnt sound like he'll be turning many wrench's himself.....Or he should just buy a car that fits his power requirements and "wants".

First and foremost, I have more than a clue as to what I am doing. . . I have some know how as to work on my car. . . and your Sh** stinks like ours so stop trying to make me sound stupid. There are somethings that I still don't understand fully and that is why I asked. If you feel that strongly about what people are trying to do to thier cars, then don't read my thread, and dont post a reply.

[alca0811]

they try harder not to break. usually lighter, and more expensive obviously. basically they are stronger to with stand the added strains you are loading on the engine. If you are really gonna go big, you are going to need tranny work, head work, fuel, ecu, basically do a lot and youspend a lot. By no means am I saying don't go all out, just don't expect to only do a couple things and be able to get away with huge numbers. If you want to get around 300 you could probably get away with forged rods and proper fuel/ ecu, and it'd be easier of course with a bigger turbo, but the tranny will be in question at and beyond that. You def are going to need to improve the diff. cause extra power is gonna destroy it. look into cryotreating, shot peening, and strengthened gears, possibly a custom tranny built. You are also gonna have to be concerned with crank walk, If you are serious and when you get to it I have a knife edged and balanced crank shaft that I am not going to use. clutch, gonna need one that can handle this as well.

Well, by no means was I planning on dropping about $20k in the car all at once and getting a car that is too much for me. I was gonna build her little by little. I was shooting for being done with this project in about 3 - 5 years. I understand all of the other things that go with the build, I had just typed the turbo and other things to give people an idea as to how big I wanted to go. In fact, I was shooting for the 500hp + range. Again, that is if I keep her.

[alca0811]

there are some powerfull built proteges in the houston area. get with some of those guys. drive in one and see if it's something you'd want to pursue. they can tell you what a build consists of, supporting mods, upgrading stock systems, and what kind of price range you're looking at.

Yeah, I already know MP3Architect and Citizenpro and a couple of other people with Pros. I haven't really asked them about much of their mods.

[ForceFed]

In fact, I was shooting for the 500hp + range. Again, that is if I keep her.
Dude..do you REALISTICALLY realize what it would take to get a protege to this power level..Its not even worth it..Even if you spread it out over 5 years.


300HP is about the Nominal worthwhile power level of this car.

I never called you stupid...But by your own words..you obvously know a lot less than what it will require to get your car to this level AND be able to MAINTAIN it on your own without paying for a wrench every week.

If you really want a 500HP car...you need to buy another car to build...This isn't the car for you.

I am not trying to be a dick..I am just keeping it real and trying to save you a lot of headache in the process.

[kylenls]

to get the "most" power out of your car you are looking at about 10-12k bucks if you dont do the work yourself.

However if you wanted a mild build with forged internals and a refreshed head maybe even after market springs, valves and even cometic head gasket you can get that all done and be in the 220-250hp range safely and reliably for about 3500-5000 depending on the parts you use. if you arent building a race car there is no need to go "all" out.

good luck man.

[crashkelly]

Dude..do you REALISTICALLY realize what it would take to get a protege to this power level..Its not even worth it..Even if you spread it out over 5 years.


300HP is about the Nominal worthwhile power level of this car.

I never called you stupid...But by you own words..you obvously know a lot less than what it will require to get your car to this level AND be able to MAINTAIN it on your own without paying for a wrench every week.

If you really want a 500HP car...you need to buy another car to build...This isn't the car for you.

I am not trying to be a dick..I am just keeping it real and trying to save you a lot of headache in the process.


I have to agree with Forcefed...there are just so many people who troll around the forums and read the key words like "forged" and "turbo" or "meth-injection"...then the next thing out of their mouth is "HEY GUYS I'M GOING FORGED!" but then they do not even know what that means.

I mean you came into the thread saying you either want to sell it or go forged...but then you ask what forged parts do...so why did you want to go forged? You dont know what forged parts do or WHICH parts are the ones to go forged with. Forcefed is trying to save you a lot of hassle.

You said you know a lot about cars, but there are some things you need to learn...well learn what going forged is all about before deciding you want to do it. You just had 4 of the heavy hitters with forged engines come in your thread and give you the low down....so dont come back throwing shit in their faces because you cant take internet criticism.

[crashkelly]

Well, by no means was I planning on dropping about $20k in the car all at once and getting a car that is too much for me. I was gonna build her little by little. I was shooting for being done with this project in about 3 - 5 years. I understand all of the other things that go with the build, I had just typed the turbo and other things to give people an idea as to how big I wanted to go. In fact, I was shooting for the 500hp + range. Again, that is if I keep her.

after making this statement I am going to say just sell your car...you dont know what you are getting into...There was another guy who just dropped over 20,000 into his car and put the biggest turbo anyone has put in a Pro in there and still did not get 500whp....When you go forged you cannot just build a little piece at a time....It's not like you open the engine up put a new set of bearings in then close it up and open it again when you get the rods, then close it up, then open it when you get the pistons....It just doesnt work like that.

The fact of the matter is that you know how to bolt on some hardpipes and now you think you know everything there is to know about engines...Let me tell you dude, I know a lot of shit about cars and I wouldnt attempt going forged without just buying another block to work with (Thats the big thing that holds the bottom of the engine together...you dont need to get it forged in order to "go forged")...and I certainly wouldnt attempt it if I didnt even know what a forged part was...I mean come on man...do the research

[shane02pro5]

Even if you "ONLY" wanted 300whp

$10k easily doing everything yourself except the getting the head decked off at a machine shop. Tranny addressed at least with a welded MSP LSD. New timing belt water pump oil pump gaskets. The tranny can be as weak as the rods at 300 and pretty much only a matter of time.

Add another $3-5k on top of that if you have the work done for you!

500whp is unrealistic and where no one has been. That would require much much more and no matter what, could pop at any time!

[kylenls]

. In fact, I was shooting for the 500hp + range. Again, that is if I keep her.

That will cost some huge dollars and alot more than just a forged block.....

[kylenls]

Even if you "ONLY" wanted 300whp

$10k easily doing everything yourself except the getting the head decked off at a machine shop. Tranny addressed at least with a welded MSP LSD. New timing belt water pump oil pump gaskets. The tranny can be as weak as the rods at 300 and pretty much only a matter of time.

Add another $3-5k on top of that if you have the work done for you!

500whp is unrealistic and where no one has been. That would require much much more and no matter what, could pop at any time!


agreed, like i said you can have a mild setup with forged internals and a decent flowing head built and installed for like 3500-5000 (depending on parts) that would be a reliable and a strong 220 hp or so. i personally love my MSP but would never dump 20-30k into making a 500 hp non-streetable mazda protege.

[Velocifero]

Even if you "ONLY" wanted 300whp

$10k easily doing everything yourself except the getting the head decked off at a machine shop. Tranny addressed at least with a welded MSP LSD. New timing belt water pump oil pump gaskets. The tranny can be as weak as the rods at 300 and pretty much only a matter of time.

Add another $3-5k on top of that if you have the work done for you!

500whp is unrealistic and where no one has been. That would require much much more and no matter what, could pop at any time!

been done

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all just matters how much you are willing to spend and still have the car.

[Velocifero]

agreed, like i said you can have a mild setup with forged internals and a decent flowing head built and installed for like 3500-5000 (depending on parts) that would be a reliable and a strong 220 hp or so. i personally love my MSP but would never dump 20-30k into making a 500 hp non-streetable mazda protege.

I am safely shy of 220 on stock motor, stock can handle more than 250 if you do it right and safely, if you forge you are wasting your money to stay even below 275.

[kylenls]

I am safely shy of 220 on stock motor, stock can handle more than 250 if you do it right and safely, if you forge you are wasting your money to stay even below 275.


how is strengthening your motor a waste? I personally feel that it is more than worth it and furthest from a waste in any case, IMO i guess though.

[Velocifero]

how is strengthening your motor a waste? I personally feel that it is more than worth it and furthest from a waste in any case, IMO i guess though.

so spending the money on forged parts just to go to 220whp is worth it? I am not saying it isn't worth it to strengthen your motor, but come on, if you are only looking to push 220 then there are much more efficient ways to doing it that are safe.

[shane02pro5]

I don't think you'll pull up next to that one on the streets!

Nice but I'm talking about an FS and I know them crazy guys in Puerto Rico pull some baddass numbers too but thats not exactly an FS motor either I don't think.

[ForceFed]

been done


all just matters how much you are willing to spend and still have the car.Horribble Example..It has a Twin Turbo Rotary in it..so you can put that one back in the file...Not to mention..We said "Streetable"....Which that is not.

And as far as staying Under 275 Forged?
WTH..It takes quite a bit to get 275 Reliable HP out of a protege without breaking a lot of stuff very often.
Forged is just insurance over the toothpick rods we have stock.

But 500HP...For a Street protege...with an FS motor...That's just out there...and mainly a pipe dream.

[shane02pro5]

I have 250whp right now on stock motor and have been for a year or so but I'm running a J&S for security!

[Velocifero]

Horribble Example..It has a Twin Turbo Rotary in it..so you can put that one back in the file...Not to mention..We said "Streetable"....Which that is not.

And as far as staying Under 275 Forged?
WTH..It takes quite a bit to get 275 Reliable HP out of a protege without breaking a lot of stuff very often.
Frged is just insurance over the toothpick rods we have stock.

But 500HP...For a Street protege...with an FS motor...Is just out there.

I know it isn't a FS in it, it's a 26b, just saying that with money you can do whatever.

[kylenls]

so spending the money on forged parts just to go to 220whp is worth it? I am not saying it isn't worth it to strengthen your motor, but come on, if you are only looking to push 220 then there are much more efficient ways to doing it that are safe.

im guessing you mean cost efficient....anyhow; i think that ill stick with a forged motor over a stock mazdaspeed motor anyday.

[kylenls]

And as far as staying Under 275 Forged?
WTH..It takes quite a bit to get 275 Reliable HP out of a protege without breaking a lot of stuff very often.
Forged is just insurance over the toothpick rods we have stock.

.

(thumb)

[Velocifero]

I have 250whp right now on stock motor and have been for a year or so but I'm running a J&S for security!

Thats all I am saying.


If you're gonna spend the money on the parts you might as well get some potential out of them. Having forged rods in a 220hp FS "realistically" is a waste of money when that can be achieved with proper tuning and supporting mods.

[ForceFed]

I know it isn't a FS in it, it's a 26b, just saying that with money you can do whatever.Yeah..Like buy a car that is Capable of actually making 500HP if thats what you want.

[ForceFed]

Thats all I am saying.


If you're gonna spend the money on the parts you might as well get some potential out of them. Having forged rods in a 220hp FS "realistically" is a waste of money when that can be achieved with proper tuning and supporting mods.Hell...For the price of the J+S ..you could have bought rods and like even had some change left over.
Tha J+S may help with detonation..But it wont stop a rod from bending if the power level gets too high...Detonation or not.

Simply Put...500HP from an FS ...Is pretty much out of the question.
PERIOD.

[Velocifero]

im guessing you mean cost efficient....anyhow; i think that ill stick with a forged motor over a stock mazdaspeed motor anyday.

cost and effort wise.

sure I would too, but if we aren't looking to break 250 then, "to me" dropping the money on the forged isn't the way to go when you still have to buy the other supporting mods to run the forged anyways. Nobody is running a forged motor with stock everything and making anymore power than non forged, but there are plenty of guys running 220-250 without forged motors and they run for long periods of time with the right mods and tuning.

[kylenls]

cost and effort wise.

sure I would too, but if we aren't looking to break 250 then, "to me" dropping the money on the forged isn't the way to go when you still have to buy the other supporting mods to run the forged anyways. Nobody is running a forged motor with stock everything and making anymore power than non forged, but there are plenty of guys running 220-250 without forged motors and they run for long periods of time with the right mods and tuning.

well i guess that just makes me in that small percentage of people willing to do things the right way and spend a few extra dollars to ensure that everything works the way its supposed too.

I never once said it wasnt possible, however i think that there is plenty of evidence in this forum that shows the FS is pretty weak and if any little thing is overlooked when dealing with stock you can kiss your motor goodbye.

i will be making less that 250 hp and spending 3k on a forged block and minor head work and never once regret my decision and hope that your outlook is not shared by too many people on this board. Either do it the right way or not at all...again this is all just my own opinion.

[Velocifero]

to each thier own right

[mspHtown]

Do you think "I" don't know this ?
For a Forged motor....His main Needs are the Rods and pistons....Yes I know there are a ton of other things such as Gasket set, Machine work, New timing belt, bearings, Good hardware, and mainly...someone with some knowledge on how to assemble the thing.

Lots of little things do add up..But in reality..there isn't much to bulding a motor.

I do think we are thinking about this differently....There are some Inherent things that naturally come along with a rebuild...so I am not Including the BLATENTLY obvious.....But he is likely not to know what that entails..Hence my idea of leaving it alone.


once again you prove yourself as a egotistically dickhead. Oh wait i forgot you are god's gift to the protege community.

I just finished rebuilding mine, and yes there is quite a bit of detail to follow and things to do when building an engine. The OP sounded like he just thought all you do is put different rods and pistons in. There are so many things that you have to buy and install correctly or your time and money will have been wasted. I never said you have to be a rocket scientist to build an engine. But its not legos and if you do not know what you are doing or you do not assemble everything correctly, then again you wasted your time and money.

Why dont you try to be less of a dick and be more helpful. I agree if someone with limited experience and knowledge wants to do this, they better think twice. You do not need to attack every single post. YOU DO NOT JUST BUY RODS AND PISTONS. What i was getting at is the time, money, and knowledge issue.

But it is evident that you know more than anyone on this board and in life in general.

You should start rebuilding blocks for the community since you are such a veteran. ;)

[ForceFed]

once again you prove yourself as a egotistically dickhead. Oh wait i forgot you are god's gift to the protege community.

I just finished rebuilding mine, and yes there is quite a bit of detail to follow and things to do when building an engine. The OP sounded like he just thought all you do is put different rods and pistons in. There are so many things that you have to buy and install correctly or your time and money will have been wasted. I never said you have to be a rocket scientist to build an engine. But its not legos and if you do not know what you are doing or you do not assemble everything correctly, then again you wasted your time and money.

Why dont you try to be less of a dick and be more helpful. I agree if someone with limited experience and knowledge wants to do this, they better think twice. You do not need to attack every single post. YOU DO NOT JUST BUY RODS AND PISTONS. What i was getting at is the time, money, and knowledge issue.

But it is evident that you know more than anyone on this board and in life in general.

You should start rebuilding blocks for the community since you are such a veteran. ;)Once again..Way to read WAAAYYYY too far into something.

I even came back and said "yes..we must be thinnking about this a different way"..and then went on to explain how....It really wasn't a big deal.

How much more of a "Less" dick can I be about it?
I mean..I didnt call anyone an idiot...and I simply told this guy there was no real way to acheive his stated power goals with this car.

His expectations and aspirations are far too high for the vehicle he wants to do this with.

I by no means made a post anywhere near as mean and negative as yours.(potkettle

I mean seriously...A motor build is not complicated in the least...Especially not our simple motors.
I didnt feel the need to go into every little part.....I stated the Main needs..the rest is common sense with any build.

Why did you feel the need for a retaliatory post like this one?

[ForceFed]

Simply Put...500HP from an FS ...Is pretty much out of the question.
PERIOD.This pretty much sums up this entire thread...In a nutshell.

[mspHtown]

Once again..Way to read WAAAYYYY too far into something.

I even came back and said "yes..we must be thinnking about this a different way"..and then went on to explain how....It really wasn't a big deal.

How much more of a "Less" dick can I be about it?
I mean..I didnt call anyone an idiot...and I simply told this guy there was no real way to acheive his stated power goals with this car.

His expectations and aspirations are far too high for the vehicle he wants to do this with.

I by no means made a post anywhere near as mean and negative as yours.(potkettle

I mean seriously...A motor build is not complicated in the least...Especially not our simple motors.
I didnt feel the need to go into every little part.....I stated the Main needs..the rest is common sense with any build.

Why did you feel the need for a retaliatory post like this one?


When you act all high and mighty in every single post, i figured i would say something about it.

Again, i never claimed the motor build should only be attempted by NASA scientists. However, you did claim that he should not build his engine from his lack of knowledge. But i thought "a motor build is not complicated in the least...especially our simple motors" So why cant he get some help and learn along the way?

Another reason why i mentioned all of the small things, if he hasnt ever built an engine (i know you have built millions), then he wouldnt think about everything else that goes into the build.

But it doesnt matter what you think or i think, we will keep arguing.

[ForceFed]

But it doesnt matter what you think or i think, we will keep arguing.
No..I'll stop..I think you understand where I am coming from..even if you don't say it.
We don't need to argue....We both have an opinion.. and we're entitled to them....I'll respect yours...you respect mine...Fair?

And I am sure that no matter what ....We both agree that a 500HP , FS based, Street protege...Is...in fact....a pipe dream.

[mspHtown]

No..I'll stop..I think you understand where I am coming from..even if you don't say it.
We don't need to argue....We both have an opinion.. and we're entitled to them....I'll respect yours...you respect mine...Fair?

And I am sure that no matter what ....We both agree that a 500HP , FS based, Street protege...Is...in fact....a pipe dream.

Fair enough.

However, i never claimed that 500 was reasonable. When i posted at the beginning, i figured he meant around 300whp. 500 is ridiculous on a street driven protege. Definitely a pipe dream.

[Jaysanooch]

so spending the money on forged parts just to go to 220whp is worth it? I am not saying it isn't worth it to strengthen your motor, but come on, if you are only looking to push 220 then there are much more efficient ways to doing it that are safe.


Thats all I am saying.


If you're gonna spend the money on the parts you might as well get some potential out of them. Having forged rods in a 220hp FS "realistically" is a waste of money when that can be achieved with proper tuning and supporting mods.

That's what I thought at the time...did everything I could to support my lousy 200-210whp. I threw so much money in supporting mods for the simple goal of keeping a healthy motor....then BOOM!!!!

If I knew the end result would come so quick...I woulda taken the car at delivery.....straight to the machine shop. I woulda saved so much money/time/headaches.

Of course it would be a waste to forge a motor for the simple goal of 220whp...sure why not push for more BUT if only I knew then what I know now!




Hell...For the price of the J+S ..you could have bought rods and like even had some change left over.
Tha J+S may help with detonation..But it wont stop a rod from bending if the power level gets too high...Detonation or not.

Yup...J&S didn't prevent anything for me knor did great tuning

[shane02pro5]

Not in disagreement but I would like to know how you think a rod gets bent? Bad rings bearings oil starvation I can't think of an example that wouldn't cause knock before catastrophe?? As long as it wasn't a huge spike that 20 degrees of timing couldn't help.

I will be using my J&S in my Speedcircuit block too!

[ForceFed]

Not in disagreement but I would like to know how you think a rod gets bent? Bad rings bearings oil starvation I can't think of an example that wouldn't cause knock before catastrophe?? As long as it wasn't a huge spike that 20 degrees of timing couldn't help.

I will be using my J&S in my Speedcircuit block too!Too much boost could cause it....Running more power than the rod is rated for...Serious Detontion may make a Rod Failure imminant...But its not the only cause of rod failure.

I have seen guys here who have disassembled running motors for a rebuild..that were running good..only to find a bent rod.
If you force too much of a load on the rod..It will bend.
It may not be a catastrophic explosion like some have seen..but they can just bend from running too much power/Boost.
Detonation does not neccessarily need to be present to cause this.
I know that typically..too much boost and detonation do go hand in hand...but it does not mean it has to be that way to trash a rod.

Did this make sense?
For some reason..I keep reading it and I hear what I said..but it just seems wrong.

[shane02pro5]

I'm nervous every time I romp on it and I still will be with a forged motor in a couple weeks. Dynos use a knock sensor when tuning and they have still blown motors! But it does make me feel a little safer!!

Haltech overboost fuel cut FTW!

[ForceFed]

Well...don't worry...you know what they say...

It's gonna go..or it's gonna blow.

[alca0811]

I have to agree with Forcefed...there are just so many people who troll around the forums and read the key words like "forged" and "turbo" or "meth-injection"...then the next thing out of their mouth is "HEY GUYS I'M GOING FORGED!" but then they do not even know what that means.

I mean you came into the thread saying you either want to sell it or go forged...but then you ask what forged parts do...so why did you want to go forged? You dont know what forged parts do or WHICH parts are the ones to go forged with. Forcefed is trying to save you a lot of hassle.

You said you know a lot about cars, but there are some things you need to learn...well learn what going forged is all about before deciding you want to do it. You just had 4 of the heavy hitters with forged engines come in your thread and give you the low down....so dont come back throwing shit in their faces because you cant take internet criticism.

Dude, by no means was I even coming at anybody throwing shit back at them. . . all I was saying is instead of making somebody look stupid for asking a question about something that they know little about, how's about you tell them what they need to know so that way they don't look stupid. That's all.

[ForceFed]

Ok..How about this....

Hey dude...I don't think building a 500HP protege is a good idea.
It will cost a lot more money than its worth and wont have any hint of reliabilty.
If you want to build a 500HP car..Might I suggest a Cobra, a Vette or something of the likes.
The protege is not a good base to build a car of that kind of HP.
Even at the 300HP mark..you will still have tranny troubles and at best...serious traction problems.
A good 250HP car with the right mods and tuning would do very well on the street if built properly.

How's that.

[alca0811]

Fair enough.

However, i never claimed that 500 was reasonable. When i posted at the beginning, i figured he meant around 300whp. 500 is ridiculous on a street driven protege. Definitely a pipe dream.

Good God. . . never did I think that a freakin example would stir up so much shit. 500 WHP was just an example. . . Even somebody that knows nothing about this car except for the baseline hp would know that 50 whp + is out of the question without putting another engine in the bay.

I know that there is a lot to do in order to go forged. . . might not know all the details. . . but i know that there is more than just dropping in the rods and pistons.

As far as building one by myself. . . psh, even I am not that stupid. Shit man, Citizenpro and MSPArchitect told me to look you (mspHtown) and Hellcat up a while back if I ever wanted the best advice in Houston.

[Witchdoktor]

ooh, an e-war, my favorite!

after driving in kooldino's boosted mp3 (275whp) I don't see why anybody with a daily driver protege would build anything stronger. A) you have no traction. B) breaking trannies gets old and costly

if you want crazy numbers buy an awd

[ForceFed]

if you want crazy numbers buy an awd
So you can break all kinds of expensive shit..LOL!

[alca0811]

ooh, an e-war, my favorite!

after driving in kooldino's boosted mp3 (275whp) I don't see why anybody with a daily driver protege would build anything stronger. A) you have no traction. B) breaking trannies gets old and costly

if you want crazy numbers buy an awd

Well, in all honesty, the reason why I even asked about the forged internals and "going forged" period, was because I wanted to protect the engine. 500 WHP is a stretch. . . but 275 - 300 isn't. (ricer)

On a side note. . . this is the most popular thread that I have ever started. Cool.

[mazdaspeedwerx]

I have about 230 hp without internals. I think I am finally coming to my senses and buying another car. I am going to have the tune finished and I think thats it.

[ForceFed]

I have about 230 hp without internals. I think I am finally coming to my senses and buying another car. I am going to have the tune finished and I think thats it.Booo...Dont sell it..I need to whoop on some local mazdas at the track this year.

[shane02pro5]

A bunch of quitters around here!

[alca0811]

Okay, last question from the guy who knows nothing and I will shut up.

How is it that people can't get this car to get higher than 350 WHP, yet others have gotten 700 WHP out of a damned civic?? the thought just baffles me.

[ForceFed]

Two words.

Aftermarket Support.

[Witchdoktor]

anything is possilble. it's just a matter of $$$

[mspHtown]

Good God. . . never did I think that a freakin example would stir up so much shit. 500 WHP was just an example. . . Even somebody that knows nothing about this car except for the baseline hp would know that 50 whp + is out of the question without putting another engine in the bay.

I know that there is a lot to do in order to go forged. . . might not know all the details. . . but i know that there is more than just dropping in the rods and pistons.

As far as building one by myself. . . psh, even I am not that stupid. Shit man, Citizenpro and MSPArchitect told me to look you (mspHtown) and Hellcat up a while back if I ever wanted the best advice in Houston.


hey man i sent you a pm.

[mazdaspeedwerx]

I am keeping my car. just giving up on being the fastest. I am hoping for 250 out of it when all is said and done. that shoud be good enough for whatever

[yashooa]

i just went through a complete rebuild. you do not just buy pistons and rods and call it a day. if you want it done right, you will end up spending tons of money and time.

Hell's yeah!
My machine work was $1200.00 alone! That was just ceramic coating, dry film, bad ass balance job, head work etc. etc. etc.
Then there is the MPI, the J&S, the Perrin FMIC, the 3'' GHL and ION, the modded turbos, the ported manifold, the suspension, the two sets of Spec clutches, the new diff, Pauter rods, Aria pistons, assembly on and on...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$

The damn stock replacement shit was like 700 bucks! Gaskets, oil pump, oil pump screen, water pump, timing belt, more shit than I can even remember.

[mspHtown]

Hell's yeah!
My machine work was $1200.00 alone! That was just ceramic coating, dry film, bad ass balance job, head work etc. etc. etc.
Then there is the MPI, the J&S, the Perrin FMIC, the 3'' GHL and ION, the modded turbos, the ported manifold, the suspension, the two sets of Spec clutches, the new diff, Pauter rods, Aria pistons, assembly on and on...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$

The damn stock replacement shit was like 700 bucks! Gaskets, oil pump, oil pump screen, water pump, timing belt, more shit than I can even remember.

thats exactly what i was trying to get at.

[CitizenPro]

Good ol' DiscreetSpeed has some motor build experience, but getting ahold of him will be the first task ;)

He built his and Hellcat's.

[alca0811]

Good ol' DiscreetSpeed has some motor build experience, but getting ahold of him will be the first task ;)

He built his and Hellcat's.

out of curiosity how much HP did they get outta their's??

[CitizenPro]

out of curiosity how much HP did they get outta their's??

ohh man, i couldnt tell ya. I was at one of his last dyno's on his stock block/turbo years back......he pulled 276whp with his own race gas mix. He went forged the following year with a t3/t4, but i dont know what he was pushing.

[alca0811]

ohh man, i couldnt tell ya. I was at one of his last dyno's on his stock block/turbo years back......he pulled 276whp with his own race gas mix. He went forged the following year with a t3/t4, but i dont know what he was pushing.

in that video of the run hellcat did with you that time, that was after all the build-up right?? He looked fast as all hell with his MP5. He must have had close to, if not more than, 300 hp.

[MSP2003.5_Nick]

Has anyone ever considered sleeving the block? I was considering getting it done when I got pistons and rods, get some nice centimeter thick sleeves put on for mega security. Do you guys think it is worth it in the long run for the ole protege? I plan on getting somewhere around 300-350WHP with a T3/T4 setup. I'm just trying to decide if its overkill or not because thats an easy 800-1000 I could be spending on the tranny eh.

[JDM Sam]

It's a closed deck block. There's no sleeving needed. Look at my myspace photo album.

[MSP2003.5_Nick]

It's a closed deck block. There's no sleeving needed. Look at my myspace photo album.

Oh really? Thats fantastic :D

In that case pistons, rods and bearings should be suffictient for that power level right? I'll be getting the head machined at the same time so other than tranny and axles should be good strength wise I'd think. 45psi here I come!!

P.S. completely kidding about 45psi lol

[MSPHXC]

Oh really? Thats fantastic :D

In that case pistons, rods and bearings should be suffictient for that power level right? I'll be getting the head machined at the same time so other than tranny and axles should be good strength wise I'd think. 45psi here I come!!

P.S. completely kidding about 45psi lol

I would say that those should be sufficient for that, thats what I had done. I warn you though!! You need to start lookin into the tranny parts, like quaife lsd and stronger gears but from what I have read the stronger gears wont even hold that much hp. I know from experience on the lsd. Just got my car back last year, and I had forged pistons which were ceramic coated and forged rods, ported and polished head, fmic, and lightened flywheel. Not even 8 months later my retarded self decided to give it some gas and I snapped the diff. in half, broke the fork, and fried one of the bearings. Now im lookin at even more money to throw into the car. Thank god I have 2 cars.

p.s. Im still wonderin if this car is worth keeping or not.

[MSP2003.5_Nick]

I figure I'll just keep a couple spare trannys in the trunk lol. but yeah its definetly on my mind from all I've read, I'm hoping as long as i dont jam gears and pop the clutch hard while daily driving it should hold up for me until i hit the track at least :D. most of the time the gears break between shifting not so much when you're already in the gear.

Buddy i know used to have a boosted integra and had to tear his tranny apart and rebuild it every other day so I'm no stranger to the hardships that come with that much power.

I think its all worth it, after all we dont slam our cars and boost the shit out of them so they can reliably and comfortably get us to work ;) Its all about the feeling and the speed, its a way of life that costs us way more than we want to believe, but yes its worth it just for that feeling. Too bad the angry girlfriends cant see that haha.

[ForceFed]

That was just ceramic coating, dry film, bad ass balance job, head work etc. etc. etc.
So..What exacly did you have Ceramic coated and Dry film coated.
I figure you had the piston tops Ceramic coated..and the skirts Dry-filmed...Did you do anything else like the Heac combustion chambers or the bearings themselves?

[yashooa]

So..What exacly did you have Ceramic coated and Dry film coated.
I figure you had the piston tops Ceramic coated..and the skirts Dry-filmed...Did you do anything else like the Heac combustion chambers or the bearings themselves?

Combustion chambers, passages, piston tops. They used two different kinds of ceramic. The side skirts and bearings were dry filmed.
The pistons had a white colored ceramic and the head had a dark gray colored ceramic coating. Side skirts and bearings had a dark dry-film coating.
I wish I would have taken pictures of the pistons :(
They looked pretty cool.