10k fine for midpipe?

[Powerslave]

I went by my local exhuast shop and he said my car had a pre cat and a regular cat, and who ever is cuaght with a midpipe gets a 10,000 fine according to him. You know those lillte mobile home looking things on the side of entrance ramps to the freeway sometimes, there shooting a lazer across the entreance ramp and thers a camera behind it, the laser checks your exhuast as you drive by if it doesn't approve it takes a picture of your licence plate and sends you a notice you have to go to a DPS station to have a smell test and ifr youve modified your cats its 10,000 FINE!!. ocourse when you get the letter you could just bolt your second cat back on...(naughty) No trying to cuase a scare but if this true its good to be aware...

[Kurt07]

I would suggest researching the law in your state about that. I have a feeling the guy at the exhaust shop is full of sh!t.

[Powerslave]

I have heard that the shop itself gets a 25k fine for doing it and thats what he said too.

[Sacrilicious]

dude, i think that shop guy is trying to rob you...=/

[Powerslave]

well i'm still gonna probably do a midpipe i'll just avoid the entrance ramps with those lazers... and even if you do get a letter you can bolt the second cat back on temperarily.

[shane02pro5]

He is smoking crack! A $10k fine sounds more like the fine an exhaust shop would get if they were caught making one for you!

[Sierra117]

Damn...I had a buddy get nabbed for a DUI and his bail wasn't that much...

[Powerslave]

..lol i'm sure they wouldn't enforce it. they would have to prove it etc.. and there are soo many people with exhuast mods.... probably nothing to worry about , but just for note I would AVOID those entrance ramps with lazers going across...

[shane02pro5]

I have had no problems for the past 4 years and traveled one end of Houston to the other!

[knowledge007]

That seems like alot of info and processing for a stupid crappy lazer. I wouldn't fall for that crap. By the time is even detects anything you will be long gone to far for the camera to catch you. Atleast me anyway. And wtf, not every vehicle comes with two cats...???

[Kurt07]

You know those lillte mobile home looking things on the side of entrance ramps to the freeway sometimes, there shooting a lazer across the entreance ramp and thers a camera behind it, the laser checks your exhuast as you drive by if it doesn't approve it takes a picture of your licence plate and sends you a notice you have to go to a DPS station to have a smell test and ifr youve modified your cats its 10,000 FINE!!. ocourse when you get the letter you could just bolt your second cat back on...(naughty) No trying to cuase a scare but if this true its good to be aware...

First of all, how can a laser shooting across an enterance ramp do that? I have a feeling they are trying to catch people speeding on the onramp with that little setup. I have see PA police do that. I almost got busted.

[Powerslave]

yeah i never knew what those things where. I'm doing a midpipe forsure, i'll just avoind those onramps with the lazers and you guys should too.....

[AutoXRacer]

I doubt there is a laser that checks smog... Thats a little far out there.(screwy)
About the muffler shop getting fined for removing emissions devices, yes, its totally true!!!

You can get fined for removing your cat, but thats only if you get pulled over and the cop slides a mirror under your car and sees a straight pipe. As long as you have 1 out of the 2 cats you are fine. The second cat is used for ultra-low emissions... The primary cat is your legal requirement; don't know about Cali laws though regarding the second cat.

[Kurt07]

yeah i never knew what those things where. I'm doing a midpipe forsure, i'll just avoind those onramps with the lazers and you guys should too.....

(attn)
Are you on something? Like I said before, the guy who told you that is full of sh!t.

[Powerslave]

cool I hope your right!! So your sure about that the second cat is only for Ultra low emissions. If thats true than there is NOTHING illegal about a midpipe and that guy is full of bs...

[Powerslave]

I was trying to get to the truth, i'm sure you guys are correct.....i hope(shrug)(five-0)....lol

[Sierra117]

Having driven through Houston a number of times, my greatest concern would be...was the laser picking my exhaust, or the ambient air smog?

[Powerslave]

I don't know he just said if the lazer detects something funny it takes a pic of your license plate

[ProtoType5]

It is illegal...and the fine can be up to 10K...It's a federal offense to tamper with ANY emission system in an automobile...The laser patrol does busts in Portland area occasionally and the fine is HIGH...The laser detect the heat signature of your exhuast...No cats = Hotter exhaust...Plus it is not hard for a person to hear a catless turbocharged car...and cops are not idiots like we like to think they are...They know what a turbo back exhaust sounds like...

Anyway this is the definition from the EPA...That's the federal EPA, and has jurisdiction over all highways and byways...

Tampering is removing or making inoperable any system or device used to control emissions from a motor vehicle engine. The motor vehicle is defined as any self-propelled vehicle designed for transporting persons or property on a street or highway. The only exception to the tampering rule is the need to install a new certified emission control system or device that is equally effective in reducing vehicle emissions.

Tampering may include, but is not limited to:

Removing the catalytic converter, air pump, and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve, or doing anything to keep them from working properly, such as disconnecting vacuum lines and electrical or mechanical parts of the pollution control system.

Adjusting any element of a car or truck's emission control design so that it no longer meets the manufacturer's specifications.

Installing a replacement part that is not the same in design and function as the part that was originally on the vehicle.

Adding a part that was not originally certified on the car, such as installing a turbocharger.

[Darksun280]

I don't know he just said if the lazer detects something funny it takes a pic of your license plate

common man think about lowered vehicles or even lets say a new GTR it has a full plate underneath the car. How would a laser even begin to detect anything through that? or even cobalt ss/sc's there cat is in the dp you can't even see it from underneath the car unless its jacked up in the air........

[Powerslave]

Prototype5 just said it detects the exhuast temp. I'm no expert bud I was just bringing up what I was told to see what you guys thought..

[Darksun280]

Prototype5 just said it detects the exhuast temp. I'm no expert bud I was just bringing up what I was told to see what you guys thought..

don't worry its the normal stuff they would bust you on in ANY state if they care. Im in new york and a cop got on his hands and knees to see if my boys wrx had a cat not like EVERY cop does it but this cop wanted anything to bust my friend on. cop still couldn't tell....

And that "no cat hotter exhaust" thing is bs cause if a cop just pulls you over after a long drive on the highway exhaust is hot no matter what.....

[btownprotege]

look out or the giant "laaaaazer" will get you... i think hes FOS "lazzzzzzerrrrr"

[icespeed]

well, it's actually pretty easy to detect things like that through a "laser". It's actually how we know what the sun, planets and other stars are made of. Each element (and most molecules) "give off" specific frequencies. The laser is just the catalyst for another item (on the other side of the road) to process the frequencies. IIRC, it is called spectography or spectometry or something like that.

It just seems that the cost of "the man" implementing such a thing would not be worth the benefits of it.

[Powerslave]

yeah after along highway ride it would probably be reall hot, and maybe with one cat it still wouldn't be to hot like autox racer said the second cat is just for ultra low emissions.

[fourthmeal]

Wow Big Brother pwns YOU!

Its a fine for the shop if they're caught.

Its a fine for you if you're caught. That's it. You must be caught red-handed, there is no (current) conspiracy other then the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT sticking their noses into things they just don't belong in.

[driver311]

I went by my local exhuast shop and he said my car had a pre cat and a regular cat, and who ever is cuaght with a midpipe gets a 10,000 fine according to him. You know those lillte mobile home looking things on the side of entrance ramps to the freeway sometimes, there shooting a lazer across the entreance ramp and thers a camera behind it, the laser checks your exhuast as you drive by if it doesn't approve it takes a picture of your licence plate and sends you a notice you have to go to a DPS station to have a smell test and ifr youve modified your cats its 10,000 FINE!!. ocourse when you get the letter you could just bolt your second cat back on...(naughty) No trying to cuase a scare but if this true its good to be aware...

The deal about the radar thing is a joke. Who ever told you that is retarded. This discussion is been gone over for years. No need to do it for every car that has ever came out. LOL

[Jays07MS3]

well, it's actually pretty easy to detect things like that through a "laser". It's actually how we know what the sun, planets and other stars are made of. Each element (and most molecules) "give off" specific frequencies. The laser is just the catalyst for another item (on the other side of the road) to process the frequencies. IIRC, it is called spectography or spectometry or something like that.

It just seems that the cost of "the man" implementing such a thing would not be worth the benefits of it.


This is not how spectrography works at all. A laser is monochrome or one color. Spectrography works by looking at absorption spectrums through white light and can't work with a monochrome light source.

The only thing a laser could do is measure the temp. But that would be ridiculously hard on a moving car where the laser is at a fixed height/position. For all practical purposes, the whole idea of a laser spotting modified exhausts is totally ludacris.

[icespeed]

This is not how spectrography works at all. A laser is monochrome or one color. Spectrography works by looking at absorption spectrums through white light and can't work with a monochrome light source.

The only thing a laser could do is measure the temp. But that would be ridiculously hard on a moving car where the laser is at a fixed height/position. For all practical purposes, the whole idea of a laser spotting modified exhausts is totally ludacris.

I stand corrected. I got the name right though :)

[cmahlig]

i thought texas didnt do any exhaust laws, ive gotten my car inspected with the catless midpipe 2 times and they never said a thing.

[Powerslave]

in houston they do... they smell your butt....lol

[shane02pro5]

^Me too, don't tell anyone!

[shane02pro5]

I'm in Mongomery County maybe it's different here. No sniffer for me! Yet, anyway!

[Powerslave]

yeah they sniff butt over here, that wouldn't be to bad if your job was to sniff female butts..lol

[Sierra117]

i thought texas didnt do any exhaust laws, ive gotten my car inspected with the catless midpipe 2 times and they never said a thing.

Depends on your registration county, but even then, almost all of them just do a OBDII test, and call it a day.

[ProtoType5]

For all practical purposes, the whole idea of a laser spotting modified exhausts is totally ludacris.

Well, it may be ludacris, but they are currently doing it, and trying to bust people for it....They do the temp tests on the off ramps of highways, so the vehicle is not going so fast, and all they've got to do is point a laser gun at your tailpipe...Definitely don't have to be a sharpshooter for that one...Whatever, don't believe that they do it, don't believe it's a federal law, don't believe a laser can test exhaust temperature...It doesn't bother me..

[Powerslave]

sounds like Prototyp5 has ya'll bitchslapped..lol anywone have an "intelligent" argument for him?

[yup24z]

I live in Houston too....they have one of those sniffers set up on the entrance ramp @ like Wilcrest and 59 North. I didn't believe it either till I saw the camera there today! Crazy stuff...

[Sierra117]

sounds like Prototyp5 has ya'll bitchslapped..lol anywone have an "intelligent" argument for him?

Beyond what it says on the Texas DPS site, nope.

[Craighjr]

Just to clear up some stupidity hear. A "cat" cataylizes the remaining hydrocarbons in the exhaust stream in a chemical reaction. In doing so it give off heat as a by product. That heat comes out of your exhaust. So hotter exhaust is actually showing a working cat. Don't believe me? Get a infared temp gun and check your exhaust pipe with the car running. Pre cat 550ish post cat 750ish.

As for the laser light thing, I work with a white light that has a spectrometer for natural gas leaks. This works great but it is white light not laser beams.

[Powerslave]

maybe they check for irregular temps? if it is true, definatly tooo much big brother...

[ProtoType5]

Craighjr

That's good to know, I never thought of it that way, but makes sense...Thanks

Not trying to bitchslap anyone, but to say they are not testing exhaust temps with a laser is being blind to reality...and the federal emissions laws that they have the right to enforce..

[Powerslave]

i was just joking about the being bitchslapped thing...lol

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

I always though that Catalytic Converter Produces more heat in the exhaust than without it..

[ill_eagle94]

These trucks are in VA and other locations as well. It IS true and as he said, you get the notice in the mail. Just put it back to stock, they test you again and guess what, you pass.

[Sierra117]

maybe they check for irregular temps? if it is true, definatly tooo much big brother...

(werd). The main reason I'm about to go to law school is to get involved with the auto lobby. Not as sexy as firearms or tobacco, but there is far more big brother with autos than most people realize. Of course, if we get lucky and Ron Paul wins the election, then problem solved, no more emissions! Chances of that happening are zilch, though...

Also, it should be pretty easy to fight these tickets. I've seen it with the red light cameras and speeder cameras, there is a pretty good defense against it. Need to find it, but something about because no police officer was present, you can't run it as a crime or some such. I could always just call up the family lawyer and ask him.

[chacon101]

I didn't spend more than like two minutes on this but this is all I could find using Google.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/08/new-device-moni.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3957/is_200501/ai_n9468449

Anyone have any other sites regarding this that have facts? It seems as though an offramp could be a great place to put a receptor on each side of the road with the laser running across and when a car passes, the way the laser reaches the other side could be the determining factor in what the readings are.

If all this is true, then this really really really sucks. I already HATE...HATE that bullshit about traffic cameras.

The way the system is setup is that the state pays nothing to put them in place. A private company installs them and the state just gets a commission. What a robbery. (pissed)

Who in the hell decided that we needed a camera to watch our every step??

[jaydubz]

I call BS, Muffler shop guys sounds like a Podunk Redneck

[redspeed]

Keep a high flow cat in your ms3 exhaust and you're good to go.

[Kurt07]

Keep a high flow cat in your ms3 exhaust and you're good to go.

Or leave your cats alone and you will be fine. Honestly, don't the police have anything better to do?

[AutoXRacer]

Honestly, don't the police have anything better to do?

No, here in Orlando we had 3 murders on January 3rd...and what are the cops doing...? Hiding behind bushes and zapping speeders.
I am so sick of cops doing traffic duty when there are drugs, murders, home invasions, robberies galore!!!

[Sierra117]

Or leave your cats alone and you will be fine. Honestly, don't the police have anything better to do?

No, because stopping actual crimes doesn't pay for the shiny new laser guns or Charger persuit cars. You can't just give a rapist or druggy or murder a ticket to fill the city coffers. Its economics, 100% economics.

What we need is for someone with some time and money to really fight one of these. American Jurisprudence is based on presidence. There isn't any presidence for fighting these emissions tickets (as far as I know), so there isn't anything to fall back on.

[chacon101]

Maybe I was a bit of a hoodlum (never really got into trouble as a kid...maybe just got away with stuff) as a kid but something like this would have been a perfect vandalism opportunity.

Not even to actually destroy it, just do something to it that would cause a malfunction but something really hard to find. I guess when you're young and you don't drive, something like this doesn't matter.

I guess another problem would be that if it wasn't working, they would just pay the 3k or whatever insane amount something like that would cost and just buy a new one.

Where is a fight club when you need it???(protest)

[ragindark]

Maybe I was a bit of a hoodlum (never really got into trouble as a kid...maybe just got away with stuff) as a kid but something like this would have been a perfect vandalism opportunity.

Not even to actually destroy it, just do something to it that would cause a malfunction but something really hard to find. I guess when you're young and you don't drive, something like this doesn't matter.

I guess another problem would be that if it wasn't working, they would just pay the 3k or whatever insane amount something like that would cost and just buy a new one.

Where is a fight club when you need it???(protest)

These people have the right idea!!

http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=32064&highlight=camera+vandalism

http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=29207&highlight=camera+vandalism

http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=16232&highlight=camera+vandalism

http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=17752&highlight=camera+vandalism

http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=17461&highlight=camera+vandalism

http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=9498&highlight=camera+vandalism

http://www.radardetector.net/viewtopic.php?t=674&highlight=camera+vandalism

http://images.flitsservice.nl/cm_php/main_repo.php?id=2035

[chacon101]

This guy said it perfectly:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ideal world: drivers get angry, threaten not to re-elect polititicians, politicians do what they used to do, photo system goes away.

The more realistic version: systems go up without the signage, motorists speed blindly through without incident, system makes more money than any police department ever could because every single driver pays a $100+ toll, drivers get angry, drivers threaten not to re-elect politicians, politicians get major campaign contributions from the companies that buid the devices, get re-elected anyway, and the battle between money and common sense continues.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I love Australians (hi)

[BLACKMS3]

First off, removing any smog related equipment from a car is a federal offense, although not strickly enforced...

And shops could get fined, however most will write "for offroad use only" on the sale bill to cover their asses..

[tru-boost]

ha, ha, ha that is funny shit. dude he is blowing smoke up your ass.

[jaydubz]

No, here in Orlando we had 3 murders on January 3rd...and what are the cops doing...? Hiding behind bushes and zapping speeders.
I am so sick of cops doing traffic duty when there are drugs, murders, home invasions, robberies galore!!!

Amen to that!!! I laugh every time they set up sting operations dressed in character outfits!!!

[mazdaspeedjay]

ok first this fine myth is kind of true but i have never heard of anyone actually getting busted for this. but in my state and i work at a shop and have worked at many shops if the state catches you removing cat.'s then the shop gets fined , the owner of the shop gets fined and the tech or mechanic that did it gets fined. first off frickin lazer beams for checking exhausts is a joke. your car is OBD2 if you don't know what OBD means look it up. now a days for emissions testing on all OBD2 cars the stations just plug a scan tool in the port and check for CEL's or DTC's if your clean they let you go. only older cars and pre OBD2 do they still put the car on the rollers and test it the old fashion way. your first mistake was going to a random shop and asking someone to do something illegal. a test pipe is four bolts and take two minutes to install. secondly if this is true with the whole lazer beam sniffers they would send you a notice in the mail giving you plenty of time to put your car back to stock to whats the big deal unless you modified it to the point where you can't make the cat back to stock. as long as you have the first cat. on you won't throw any DTC's and even if you didn't they have all kind of 02 sensor simulators to keep the CEL off. here in maryland last time our state trooper came in for inspection my boss asked him about removing cat.'s cause i guy came in and wanted it done. he $10,000 fine is true here from what the trooper said i don't know how true or how much was just bs to scare the owner but the fine goes to three people. the manager and the employee that did it and the owner ofthe shop. BUT seriously unless you video taped your self doing it how are they going to prove you did it.

[Alejo_NIN]

i think this lasers should be used to cut ricermobiles in half.
that'll be neat.

"computer, ricer mobile alarm activated"
"start laser sequencing"
"car destruction completed"
"NEXT!"

i call BS until we actually see a scan of a fine like this...

damn, i've seen people going to jail for vehicular manslaughter(*) and get bail for less than that!

[mazdaspeedjay]

LOL yea that would be great. well i just thought of this. in my state you have to go get your emissions test done every two years some other state it's every year. well if this is all true. what the state is telling me that a couple months ago when i went to get the tets done and passed everything is ok. but now cause of some stupid lazer in a trailer says mines not good enough anymore and your making me go back. i can't seen any body in any state putting up with this. you go get your emissions test done for a reason and don't have to go back for a certain amount of time. they can't all of a sudden tell you you have to go back and get it done and spend money again. this just doesn't sound true.

[chacon101]

You know, this laser testing thing can't be true period. You know why? Because of older cars that are grandfathered in. In Maryland, if your car is over 25 years old, it's exempt from emissions testing. That said, if I was puttering around in my old VW Bug, I would probably light up every laaaayyyzerrr testing station. Myth busted (dark)

[LinuxRacr]

They do have the little stations on the entrance ramps to highways here in the Dallas area. I avoid them.