Colder plugs in the MS3, whose using them?

[silverspeed03]

I'm getting spark blowout pretty bad now and wanted to know what plugs you have upgraded to and what you gapped them to. I'm still on the stock plugs and this problem is bugging the hell out of me.

Example
Plug: (Copper) NGK.....?
Gap: .04?

[knowledge007]

First of all, this car runs iridium plugs. There is no better plug. If you are having problems take the car to the dealer if you still can.

[Dream]

What the heck is spark blow out?

[silverspeed03]

iridium plugs are not worth it. Copper plugs are just as good and a hell of a lot cheaper. It's your money.

[knowledge007]

My money, they come iridium stock. So wtf are you talking about. Like I said, take the friggin car to the dealer.

[silverspeed03]

Why the fuck would I take it to the dealer?
Do you even know what spark blowout is?

[silverspeed03]

Anybody else that KNOWS what they are talking about.

[knowledge007]

I really don't give a fuck what it is. If your having a problem and you are referring to the spark plugs then why do I need to know wtf spark blowout is. If the car is still under warranty and you haven't been voided yet then why wouldn't you.

Dream asked you what exactly spark blowout is. Instead of trying to demeanor me, why don't you answer the question.

[silverspeed03]

First, I'm not trying to insult you or your intelligence. So sorry if I came off that way. All I was saying is that IMO if you have to replace the plugs why spend $10-$15 per plug for iridium's when I can get (4) copper plugs for $15 that IMO are just as good. A lot of people with turbo cars run copper plugs in the MSP & SRT-4 crowd.

As for spark blowout. It's when you get sputtering/backfiring at WOT. any kind of sputtering is usually ignition related. I think a lot of people misinterpret this for fuel cut, it's not. I have experienced fuel cut on my MSP before and this is nothing like it. This is like a very quick succession of popping and sputtering. I was told by Justin at JMB Performance (very knowledgeable guy) to bump up to a colder plug and close the gap to .040.

[ElBartoRex]

what he is talking about happens when your plugs are gapped too wide, though I have never heard of it referred to as 'spark plug blowout'.

One step colder plugs are only recommended for cars running around 100hp over stock.

[knowledge007]

First, I'm not trying to insult you or your intelligence. So sorry if I came off that way. All I was saying is that IMO if you have to replace the plugs why spend $10-$15 per plug for iridium's when I can get (4) copper plugs for $15 that IMO are just as good. A lot of people with turbo cars run copper plugs in the MSP & SRT-4 crowd.

As for spark blowout. It's when you get sputtering/backfiring at WOT. any kind of sputtering is usually ignition related. I think a lot of people misinterpret this for fuel cut, it's not. I have experienced fuel cut on my MSP before and this is nothing like it. This is like a very quick succession of popping and sputtering. I was told by Justin at JMB Performance (very knowledgeable guy) to bump up to a colder plug and close the gap to .040.

Now we are getting somewhere. This is very interesting as I am experiencing the same exact thing you have described. Only occasionally though. I have also had some problems with startup. Where I have a slight hesitation. Sort of like the hesi when the standback is installed. BUt I have removed teh standback. Do you think the two are related to the spark plug issue?

No CEL's bTW.

[silverspeed03]

what he is talking about happens when your plugs are gapped too wide, though I have never heard of it referred to as 'spark plug blowout'.

One step colder plugs are only recommended for cars running around 100hp over stock.

That was the term I thought best described my situation and what I've heard, whether or not that is correct terminology or not, I have no idea. So you recommend just closing the gap and not going with a step colder? Would you think I would fowl out colder plugs?

[silverspeed03]

I also have no CEL's?

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of them being related. I mean it really sounds like it could be. My particular issuse is from 3-5 gears and from 3.5k-4k RPM to Redline, well 5800 RPM.

[silverspeed03]

I'm still running the stock plugs/gap. That's why I'm wondering if anyone else has upgraded/re-gapped.

But this is good. So, you too have/know what I'm talking about? This is very frustrating.

[knowledge007]

Yes it is.

[fourthmeal]

Question, have you ruled out low fuel pressure at the rail at WOT near Redline? Something that the stock CDFP can render?

[silverspeed03]

Well, wouldn't that cause me to go lean? MY AFR's are pretty rich 10.4 -10.7 at WOT.

[Haltech]

First of all, this car runs iridium plugs. There is no better plug. If you are having problems take the car to the dealer if you still can.

Iridium plugs suck... they crack at the slightest sign of detonation. A smart person runs a 1 step colder plug and its a copper one. You may get a slighter rougher idle, but the longevity of the plug itself and the safety factor makes it worth it. 18+ psi i would consider experimenting with a colder, NGK copper plug.

[fourthmeal]

From what people have datalogged, the engine will show rich, but the ECU will pull spark (or some other kind of cut,...this is a new topic of study for me still) if the CDFP can't meet the demands of the engine. You'd never show

Certainly worth looking into.

[nig3]

First, I'm not trying to insult you or your intelligence. So sorry if I came off that way. All I was saying is that IMO if you have to replace the plugs why spend $10-$15 per plug for iridium's when I can get (4) copper plugs for $15 that IMO are just as good. A lot of people with turbo cars run copper plugs in the MSP & SRT-4 crowd.

As for spark blowout. It's when you get sputtering/backfiring at WOT. any kind of sputtering is usually ignition related. I think a lot of people misinterpret this for fuel cut, it's not. I have experienced fuel cut on my MSP before and this is nothing like it. This is like a very quick succession of popping and sputtering. I was told by Justin at JMB Performance (very knowledgeable guy) to bump up to a colder plug and close the gap to .040.

its fuel cut nig... trust me. its not spark blow out. your friend doesnt know that this motor come with hot ass iridium plugs already with high compression and direct injection. If you put a colder plug your problems will get worse. everyone with a modded ms3 has this same exact issue. the only way around it is this-->>>http://mazda3online.web.aplus.net/product_info.php?cPath=281_160_400&products_id=1038
or wait for a reflash or turn your boost down alittle. peace out!!

[driver311]

Sorry bud but I dont think your blowing out spark. My guess is its the same thing me and laloosh have had problems with many times. Once the the ecu senses the fp losing pressure it does something to the car that feels like spark blow out. Its pulling timing and closing the throttle plate. You need more fuel. Are you running over 22psi? If not its no way spark blow out. They are gapped at. 28-32 from the factory.

[driver311]

Well, wouldn't that cause me to go lean? MY AFR's are pretty rich 10.4 -10.7 at WOT.

My car still did it at those afr's. its a very sensitive car.

[ElBartoRex]

That was the term I thought best described my situation and what I've heard, whether or not that is correct terminology or not, I have no idea. So you recommend just closing the gap and not going with a step colder? Would you think I would fowl out colder plugs?

you can't re-gap iridium plugs, they come gapped properly for the application from the factory. Trying to gap iridiums will ruin the tip. I agree that you aren't experiencing a lost spark but rather fuel cut.

[Anklh]

I have been having this same problem. The sputtering/backfiring sounds come in quick succession in third gear above 3k rpm. I have no CEL and running stock boost.

My mods are: CPE-CAI, CPE-TBE, TurboSmart BOV (recirculating), 3.25 ETS and Billet REM.

[winniep]

you can't re-gap iridium plugs, they come gapped properly for the application from the factory. Trying to gap iridiums will ruin the tip. I agree that you aren't experiencing a lost spark but rather fuel cut.

Indeed you can, albeit VERY carefully. When I had my SRT-4 the colder iridiums I ordered came gapped at like .052 or so. I gapped them down to .032-.035. As far as the factory gap on the MS3 being in the lower .030s, I don't think spark blowout will ever be an issue unless you can squeeze 400+ HP to the wheels, which as far as I know, hasn't been done (a SHAME). Now that the CDFP has given us some hope of making at least decent numbers on the dyno (which numbers are overrated anyway, it's all about how you make the power IMO) I can't wait to see what kind of power the stock motor can make. SRT-4s and EVO's can make 400-475 WHP on stock internals.......... surely we can hit 375-400 or so (dunno). Anyway, from the research I've done I'm leaning toward fuel issues, not spark blowout. You need to be making some serious boost to blowout a spark, ESPECIALLY when the plugs are gapped as low as .030. Just my 2 cents.......

[ill_eagle94]

Sorry bud but I dont think your blowing out spark. My guess is its the same thing me and laloosh have had problems with many times. Once the the ecu senses the fp losing pressure it does something to the car that feels like spark blow out. Its pulling timing and closing the throttle plate. You need more fuel. Are you running over 22psi? If not its no way spark blow out. They are gapped at. 28-32 from the factory.

And me! (help)

I can't wait until PG gets the parts for more pumps. I've got the money ready. :)

[silverspeed03]

Indeed you can, albeit VERY carefully. When I had my SRT-4 the colder iridiums I ordered came gapped at like .052 or so. I gapped them down to .032-.035. As far as the factory gap on the MS3 being in the lower .030s, I don't think spark blowout will ever be an issue unless you can squeeze 400+ HP to the wheels, which as far as I know, hasn't been done (a SHAME). Now that the CDFP has given us some hope of making at least decent numbers on the dyno (which numbers are overrated anyway, it's all about how you make the power IMO) I can't wait to see what kind of power the stock motor can make. SRT-4s and EVO's can make 400-475 WHP on stock internals.......... surely we can hit 375-400 or so (dunno). Anyway, from the research I've done I'm leaning toward fuel issues, not spark blowout. You need to be making some serious boost to blowout a spark, ESPECIALLY when the plugs are gapped as low as .030. Just my 2 cents.......

I've experienced fuel cut before (different car) though and this is not like I'm hitting a brick wall where power/pull just stops. I keep pulling to my shift point it just sputters getting there. I have always thought that when the fuel is cut it's cut, your car no longer continues to pull.

Are there different degrees of fuel cut?

Factory gap is .030?

[silverspeed03]

Well, the Fuel Pump is on my list. I guess I'll be getting one sooner than I previously thought.

Is CPE having the same problems with their Fuel Pump that PG is having?

Any word on a release date yet?

[laloosh]

its the fuel pump 100 percent. my car did the same exact thing, it felt like spark blow out, or better yet, like a quick misfire every 200 rpms or so.

[Vengure]

Denso makes some one step colder iridium plugs if im not mistaken I'll probably be giving those a try in the MS3. The Denso ITV20 According to the denso site they are a colder plug. they list the gap on the site as .044 for the 2007 MS3. If they are so fragile as Haltech said I may try the one step colder copper ngk's.

[silverspeed03]

its the fuel pump 100 percent. my car did the same exact thing, it felt like spark blow out, or better yet, like a quick misfire every 200 rpms or so.


So, how does your car feel with the new pump a month or so later?

[whooosh]

you guys should visit the MS6 forums
Denso doesn't make plugs for your MZR

NGK makes a replacment and a 1 step colder plug
HKS has plugs as well if you need JDM badging and want relabeled NGK's that say HKS

anyway,
I've had 1 step colder NGK's in my speed6 for at least 6 months
they will have to be gapped to the factory setting
you can gap irridium plugs if you are careful, know what you are doing and are not an asshat
as far as I could tell when I was looking into spark plug offerings a early 2007
I could not find any plug company that offered anything for the MZR but an irridium plug....you will most likely not find a copper plug
Maybe since then some things have changed but I doubt it

here are all the part numbers you'll need:

stock replacement
NGK ILTR6A8G
NGK LTR7IX-11 (1 step colder)

I have my LTR7IX-11's gapped at .032 - car runs great

I also ordered from clubplug.net which is by far the cheapest you'll find

[funkyman]

See photos here of stock MS3 spark plugs

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123678245&highlight=spark+plugs

[Vengure]

you guys should visit the MS6 forums
Denso doesn't make plugs for your MZR

NGK makes a replacment and a 1 step colder plug
HKS has plugs as well if you need JDM badging and want relabeled NGK's that say HKS

anyway,
I've had 1 step colder NGK's in my speed6 for at least 6 months
they will have to be gapped to the factory setting
you can gap irridium plugs if you are careful, know what you are doing and are not an asshat
as far as I could tell when I was looking into spark plug offerings a early 2007
I could not find any plug company that offered anything for the MZR but an irridium plug....you will most likely not find a copper plug
Maybe since then some things have changed but I doubt it

here are all the part numbers you'll need:

stock replacement
NGK ILTR6A8G
NGK LTR7IX-11 (1 step colder)

I have my LTR7IX-11's gapped at .032 - car runs great

I also ordered from clubplug.net which is by far the cheapest you'll find


About Denso
http://www.densoiridium.com/find_part_specs.php?id=25063

If you goto their website and go under 2007 Mazda you'll see the MZR engine listed..
2007 MAZDA 3 MAZDASPEED 2.3 L - L4 MZR N/A N/A N/A Plug = ITV20 Gap = 0.044

[Speedy3]

Stuttering and sputtering are different than hesitation from fuel pressure drop. I had both of these problems and the stuttering/sputtering went away after i replaced the stock spark plugs. Two were cracked. I still have the hesitation from fuel pressure drops.

BTW, these spark plugs are not cheap and definitely not $10-$15 dollars each. I paid $85 for a set of 4 from the dealer and that was with a valued customer discount.

[whooosh]

About Denso
http://www.densoiridium.com/find_part_specs.php?id=25063

If you goto their website and go under 2007 Mazda you'll see the MZR engine listed..
2007 MAZDA 3 MAZDASPEED 2.3 L - L4 MZR N/A N/A N/A Plug = ITV20 Gap = 0.044


cool - that's new
I'm confused about the .44 gap....good luck with that
that's a pretty big gap compared to the factory setting

[silverspeed03]

Stuttering and sputtering are different than hesitation from fuel pressure drop. I had both of these problems and the stuttering/sputtering went away after i replaced the stock spark plugs. Two were cracked. I still have the hesitation from fuel pressure drops.

BTW, these spark plugs are not cheap and definitely not $10-$15 dollars each. I paid $85 for a set of 4 from the dealer and that was with a valued customer discount.


So you think my issue sounds like a plug problem and not a fuel cut problem? (confused)

[silverspeed03]

I want to try new plugs but, if they cost $85 for four IDK.

[Vengure]

Stuttering and sputtering are different than hesitation from fuel pressure drop. I had both of these problems and the stuttering/sputtering went away after i replaced the stock spark plugs. Two were cracked. I still have the hesitation from fuel pressure drops.

BTW, these spark plugs are not cheap and definitely not $10-$15 dollars each. I paid $85 for a set of 4 from the dealer and that was with a valued customer discount.

Those plugs must be pure gold b/c Denso's ITV20 are 10 - 12 $ each.


cool - that's new
I'm confused about the .44 gap....good luck with that
that's a pretty big gap compared to the factory setting

Yea I'm wondering if maybe Denso thought that was the optimal gap for the MZR.

[Speedy3]

So you think my issue sounds like a plug problem and not a fuel cut problem? (confused)



I want to try new plugs but, if they cost $85 for four IDK.

It's worth a try because the dealer will most likely reimburse you like they did in my case. They were pissed that they didn't find the problem themselves after 3 visits and complaints of stuttering, but when I told them I found it, the wrote up a dummy work order and reimbursed me.

My original thread is here:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123656333&highlight=stutter

[Speedy3]

Those plugs must be pure gold b/c Denso's ITV20 are 10 - 12 $ each.

Keep in mind, these are OEM from MAZDA. Way OVERPRICED!

[Haltech]

Ok, so we have TR6a installed. These are one stage colder than what came with my Lightning.. Im assumung the "A" stands for iridium. So, this means, that you could try NGK TR6 as those are COPPER.. If you need to go to a stage 2 colder plug, NGK BR7EFs are the copper ones.

[Speedy3]

So you think my issue sounds like a plug problem and not a fuel cut problem? (confused)

After thinking more about this, I really doubt it's plugs. When my plugs were bad, my symptoms always went away at higher RPMs like 5K. With all your mods, it could be fuel cut, but PG has a MS6 at 329 whp on the stock fuel system. Other threads I've read indicate the stock fuel system can support up to 350 whp, so don't know. It's easy to check the plugs and look at the ceramic for cracks and carbon trails in the cracks.

[nig3]

Sorry bud but I dont think your blowing out spark. My guess is its the same thing me and laloosh have had problems with many times. Once the the ecu senses the fp losing pressure it does something to the car that feels like spark blow out. Its pulling timing and closing the throttle plate. You need more fuel. Are you running over 22psi? If not its no way spark blow out. They are gapped at. 28-32 from the factory.

Why do you insist that the main cause of this sputtering everyone is experiencing is from loosing fuel pressure??? reason i ask is because while dynoing my car at nearly 18psi it showed no signs of running out of fuel pressure and neither did your dyno as i recall. just curious what makes you believe that more fuel will fix the problem when these cars run pig rich as it is.

[shane02pro5]

So Mazda specifically calls out Iridium plugs? I have always read that Iridium plugs were bad for turbo engines due to getting hotspots and causing pre-ignition!?

[Haltech]

Iridium are fine for high boosted applications as long as your tune is dialed in. The reason is because Iridiums crack so damn easy at the littlest form of detonation. I think NGKs are better plugs than Densos and ive been using them in high boost applications for years. Platinum is probably what youre referring to in your experiences of hearing bad things with turbos. I prefer a copper plug. They are cheaper and can be tossed out and replaced with new plugs during every other oil change. Just remember if you plan on going with copper, they have to be resistor plugs, or else they wont work properly with COP. The TR6 and BR7EFs are ok to run with COP.

[nig3]

just so everyone know before they go out and try to gap there plugs. YOU CANT RE-GAP IRIDIUM PLUGS BECAUSE THEY WILL BE DAMAGE, THEY ALL COME PRE GAPPED!! so if your gonna try this you must by copper plugs instead.

[laloosh]

Why do you insist that the main cause of this sputtering everyone is experiencing is from loosing fuel pressure??? reason i ask is because while dynoing my car at nearly 18psi it showed no signs of running out of fuel pressure and neither did your dyno as i recall. just curious what makes you believe that more fuel will fix the problem when these cars run pig rich as it is.

your car is not making enough power. what do u have to fool the map clamp, if nothing, ure not holding 18psi. Also this happens when the weather is cold, like 40 and under, the colder it gets the more it happens. sputtering IS the fuel pressure dropping. look up my posts and look at the datalogs ive posted with just i/tbe/15 and 17psi. Maybe youl change your mind.

[Haltech]

your car is not making enough power. what do u have to fool the map clamp, if nothing, ure not holding 18psi. Also this happens when the weather is cold, like 40 and under, the colder it gets the more it happens. sputtering IS the fuel pressure dropping. look up my posts and look at the datalogs ive posted with just i/tbe/15 and 17psi. Maybe youl change your mind.

(mswerd)

[nig3]

your car is not making enough power. what do u have to fool the map clamp, if nothing, ure not holding 18psi. Also this happens when the weather is cold, like 40 and under, the colder it gets the more it happens. sputtering IS the fuel pressure dropping. look up my posts and look at the datalogs ive posted with just i/tbe/15 and 17psi. Maybe youl change your mind.

where are your data logs please?

[laloosh]

top right hand corner, hit advanced search type in my name and serach for fuel pump, you will see it all

or click this lol
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123689668&highlight=fuel+pump

[itzl0l]

just so everyone know before they go out and try to gap there plugs. YOU CANT RE-GAP IRIDIUM PLUGS BECAUSE THEY WILL BE DAMAGE, THEY ALL COME PRE GAPPED!! so if your gonna try this you must by copper plugs instead.


u can gap them....u just have to not be an idiot and break them. Did it all the time with my neon

[AzMz3]

Iridiums are used by OEM because of ther long life. They are not commonly used in boost applications especially with the aftermarket.

I ran iridiums in my turbo mazda3 and seen a few hairline cracks in them and heard a few horror stories about them. Switched to copper plugs after that and never had any issues with them.

Besides copper plugs are alot cheaper than iridium or platinium plugs and are usually found at any autostore.

I haven't had any type of fuel/boost/maf cut on my MS3 but I'm also curious how it is labled to be fuel cut.
I have experience fuel cut on other vehicles as others have and it doesn't sound the same as what many here are describing. The way it does sound makes it seem more like it is spark blow out or maxing out the MAF.
Fuel cut would make the car run lean right and I haven't seen anything that supports this in one single bit. We have people saying the fuel pump is maxed out and I can believe it if they are still untuned and running 9afr at WOT.

I haven't checked what the gap was on the stock plugs but all of the replacements I have seen are labled as .051 - .052 usually they are pretty close to what you need....did say usually.
I know you can gap iridium plugs and it is not as hard to do as some are making it out to be. Just don't touch the electrode.....simple as that.

[nig3]

top right hand corner, hit advanced search type in my name and serach for fuel pump, you will see it all

or click this lol
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123689668&highlight=fuel+pump

hmmm ok so is it the blue line representing the fuel pressure drop or what? im confused from your graphs. please explain. just dont see how the fuel pressure dropping would cause this when the afr's are get richer and richer before redline. wouldnt you see the afrs began to lean out some when the fuel pressure drops??

[jp4130]

Sorry bud but I dont think your blowing out spark. My guess is its the same thing me and laloosh have had problems with many times. Once the the ecu senses the fp losing pressure it does something to the car that feels like spark blow out. Its pulling timing and closing the throttle plate. You need more fuel. Are you running over 22psi? If not its no way spark blow out. They are gapped at. 28-32 from the factory.

He has the proper gap from the service manual, all those other number people ar thowing out are wrong.

[driver311]

He has the proper gap from the service manual, all those other number people ar thowing out are wrong.

what? I pulled them out and checked thats how I know. Im not sure what your are saying here.

[jp4130]

I was not disagreeing with you.

Other people were posting all sorts of numbers for what the gap size is.
I was just trying to clarify who had the right numbers for those who do not have a service manual.

[nig3]

So has anyone else tried this yet to see if it helps with the sputtering issue?

[nig3]

The reason is because Iridiums crack so damn easy at the littlest form of detonation.

No, the main reason they are bad for boosted applications is because the irdium portion on the electrode with say glowing hot at cleaning temps in between sparks. this can can cause the fuel to ignite before its supposed too under high cylinder pressures from the boost. thats the main reason people upgrade to coppers, to eliminate that issue.

[Haltech]

No, the main reason they are bad for boosted applications is because the irdium portion on the electrode with say glowing hot at cleaning temps in between sparks. this can can cause the fuel to ignite before its supposed too under high cylinder pressures from the boost. thats the main reason people upgrade to coppers, to eliminate that issue.

Never seen that in my experience, just the porcelain cracking.

[shane02pro5]

So Mazda specifically calls out Iridium plugs? I have always read that Iridium plugs were bad for turbo engines due to getting hotspots and causing pre-ignition!?

[driver311]

i ordered a set of one stg colder plugs. Ill let you guys know how they feel once I put them in a drive a few days.

[knowledge007]

i ordered a set of one stg colder plugs. Ill let you guys know how they feel once I put them in a drive a few days.

Please do, as I am getting sick and tired of this shit. I would to find out wtf this issue is.

[whooosh]

i ordered a set of one stg colder plugs. Ill let you guys know how they feel once I put them in a drive a few days.

I've had the 1 stg colder plugs in for over 6 months and have set them at 2 different gaps
studdering is still present
the colder plug isn;t a bad idea when heavy modding but I can assure you they are not the studdering cure

[driver311]

I dont think they will fix that. I just wanted make sure the car still ran right and no spark blow out or anything.

[silverspeed03]

I dont think they will fix that. I just wanted make sure the car still ran right and no spark blow out or anything.


What plugs did you go with?

Also, I'm dynoing my car on the 26th and was thinking about a BCD and MBC combo, set to 17psi. Given what I already have done to my car what's your take/how safe is it?

[funkyman]

Don`t touch the factory originals they are goog enough.

[knowledge007]

I don't think they are considering our mods. I think they might haved crakced or something when I upped the boost.... I never had this sputtering problem during idle...???

[driver311]

What plugs did you go with?

Also, I'm dynoing my car on the 26th and was thinking about a BCD and MBC combo, set to 17psi. Given what I already have done to my car what's your take/how safe is it?

I went with one stg colder ngks. Ptp has them on the website. He sent me a set of stock heat range ngks and 1 step colder. Im gonna try both and see how it runs.

your car should be fine with those mods. If it cuts then turn boost down a bit. Thats the exact setup I went 12.7 on. What are your temps where you live right now?

Stock ones are good yes but Im not gonna take the risk of them breaking or fouling. Plugs are cheap and I like to change them often.

[silverspeed03]

What are your temps where you live right now?



Today it's 60 degrees (extremely rare) but, it's going to drop back down into the 30's and 40's (normal temps). I'm beginning to think that my issue is weather related because I have not had experienced it for the last 3 days, temps have been around 65-70.

What BCD and MBC are you using?

Any issues to speak of?

[driver311]

Today it's 60 degrees (extremely rare) but, it's going to drop back down into the 30's and 40's (normal temps). I'm beginning to think that my issue is weather related because I have not had experienced it for the last 3 days, temps have been around 65-70.

What BCD and MBC are you using?

Any issues to speak of?


Im using a map clamp instead of the bcd. If you are good with wiring then runa map clamp. Otherwise order the atp bcd and a turbosmart boost controller or forge bc. both are good.

[allmotor95pgt]

I've had the 1 stg colder plugs in for over 6 months and have set them at 2 different gaps
studdering is still present
the colder plug isn;t a bad idea when heavy modding but I can assure you they are not the studdering cure

where did u get ur plugs from and whats the part number.

[driver311]

i put them in and car is running bitchen!!

[Haltech]

i put them in and car is running bitchen!!

So which ones did you install? did you go with copper?

[boost_me]

So which ones did you install? did you go with copper?


+1 i'm planning on getting some too!

[SpdFreak]

i put them in and car is running bitchen!!

Did it end that problem after 5,000 rpm that people called a "misfire", or does it just feel good on the butt dyno because it's a new set of plugs?

[shaodome]

Stuttering and sputtering are different than hesitation from fuel pressure drop. I had both of these problems and the stuttering/sputtering went away after i replaced the stock spark plugs. Two were cracked. I still have the hesitation from fuel pressure drops.

BTW, these spark plugs are not cheap and definitely not $10-$15 dollars each. I paid $85 for a set of 4 from the dealer and that was with a valued customer discount.

You are at stock boost with just a few bolt ons and cracked plugs? What the hell!

[Davidb]

how did the old plugs look?

[mrlilguy157]

driver311, update mannnnn

[driver311]

NGK LTR7IX-11 is the plug I went with. Car is running great with no hiccups. Didnt cure anything to crazy. But car still runs good with a colder plug, which i think is a good sign. Ill know in the next few days about some more dyno info for you guys.

[SpdFreak]

NGK LTR7IX-11 is the plug I went with. Car is running great with no hiccups. Didnt cure anything to crazy. But car still runs good with a colder plug, which i think is a good sign. Ill know in the next few days about some more dyno info for you guys.


Isn't any car going to feel smoother and refreshed with a new plug, let alone a colder plug?

[fourthmeal]

I gotta think people are on to something here. Good going!

[Haltech]

1 Stage cooler plugs do have a rougher idle, but not very noticeable. When you hit 2 stage colder plugs, thats when you notice the rougher idle.

I would like to see his old plugs.

[driver311]

whos, mine?

[knowledge007]

Do you have a rough idle Driver? Or did your sputtering idle go away witht he new plugs?

[whooosh]

Do you have a rough idle Driver? Or did your sputtering idle go away witht he new plugs?

why would you get a rough idle with 1 step colder plugs?
I bet the farm that his idle characteristics are exactly the same as stock

Colder spark plugs help prevent knock when running higher boost levels. They also help run lower EGT's. Running too cold could cause pre-ignition. One step colder is recomended once about 50-75 hp over stock.

More in depth:

A spark plug's heat range has no relationship to the actual voltage transferred though the spark plug. Rather, the heat range is a measure of the spark plug's ability to remove heat from the combustion chamber. The heat range measurement is determined by several factors; the length of the ceramic center insulator nose and its' ability to absorb and transfer combustion heat, the material composition of the insulator and center electrode material.
The insulator nose length is the distance from the firing tip of the insulator to the point where insulator meets the metal shell. Since the insulator tip is the hottest part of the spark plug, the tip temperature is a primary factor in pre-ignition and fouling. Whether the spark plugs are fitted in a lawnmower, boat, or a race car, the spark plug tip temperature must remain between 500C-850°C. If the tip temperature is lower than 500°C, the insulator area surrounding the center electrode will not be hot enough to burn off carbon and combustion chamber deposits. These accumulated deposits can result in spark plug fouling leading to misfire. If the tip temperature is higher than 850°C the spark plug will overheat which may cause the ceramic around the center electrode to blister and the electrodes to melt. This may lead to pre-ignition/detonation and expensive engine damage. In identical spark plug types, the difference from one heat range to the next is the ability to remove approximately 70°C to 100°C from the combustion chamber. A projected style spark plug firing tip temperature is increased by 10°C to 20°C.

[driver311]

No idle issue. I plan on running around 22psi on the stock turbo maybe more if it likes it. so I was just planning ahead. i just didnt know how the disi motor would like them. No problems at all though. I recommend them to anyone pushing over 18psi on pump gas.

[tru-boost]

so let me make sure i understand this correctly. this helped the slight sputtering that sometimes comes in at WOT with lots of boost ? my car will do this same sputter ever so slightly, a few seconds before i hit my big fall on my ass cut at about 5k. i assume you still have the cold weather cut at the top end right ? it just smoothed things out a little. i am considering the plugs, but am not really sure it will do anything for me.
and is that a copper plug, or iridium. and did you have to gap them ?

[Haltech]

whos, mine?

yup

[Haltech]

why would you get a rough idle with 1 step colder plugs?
I bet the farm that his idle characteristics are exactly the same as stock

Colder spark plugs help prevent knock when running higher boost levels. They also help run lower EGT's. Running too cold could cause pre-ignition. One step colder is recomended once about 50-75 hp over stock.


Actually, its very common for an automobile to react to change in spark plugs, even one stage colder. This has to do with the idle burning charactertics of the plugs themselves. Some cars/trucks, react different than others, especially in forced inducted applications.


More in depth:

A spark plug's heat range has no relationship to the actual voltage transferred though the spark plug. Rather, the heat range is a measure of the spark plug's ability to remove heat from the combustion chamber. The heat range measurement is determined by several factors; the length of the ceramic center insulator nose and its' ability to absorb and transfer combustion heat, the material composition of the insulator and center electrode material.
The insulator nose length is the distance from the firing tip of the insulator to the point where insulator meets the metal shell. Since the insulator tip is the hottest part of the spark plug, the tip temperature is a primary factor in pre-ignition and fouling. Whether the spark plugs are fitted in a lawnmower, boat, or a race car, the spark plug tip temperature must remain between 500C-850°C. If the tip temperature is lower than 500°C, the insulator area surrounding the center electrode will not be hot enough to burn off carbon and combustion chamber deposits. These accumulated deposits can result in spark plug fouling leading to misfire. If the tip temperature is higher than 850°C the spark plug will overheat which may cause the ceramic around the center electrode to blister and the electrodes to melt. This may lead to pre-ignition/detonation and expensive engine damage. In identical spark plug types, the difference from one heat range to the next is the ability to remove approximately 70°C to 100°C from the combustion chamber. A projected style spark plug firing tip temperature is increased by 10°C to 20°C.

Again, operating temperatures do vary at idle. Colder plugs do have a lower heat during idle as well as the entire power ban. This is why during high boost applications, youre less prone to detonation damage with colder plugs because the heat in the combustion chamber wont affect the operatating temp of the plug at its maximum spark. You can feel stumbling at idle with colder plugs because they are actually misfiring with the temp difference in the combustion chamber. Again, this varies from vehicle to vehicle and whether the plug is Iridium or Copper, it doesnt matter. I have heard Irdidium is less prone to idle misfires but ive never experienced that using Densos. I could still feel it and see it on datalogs with my truck.