SRI vs CAI on the DYNO!

[driver311]

Got bored the other day so I went to the dyno to test my sri vs. my cai. Take it for what you will. Here are my thoughts. I like the sri better. Plain and simple I believe its safer, looks better, and has the potential to make more topend hp. The dyno did not show that. The intake tested was a fugita cai. I tested it full length and then cut it right after the fugita emblem and tested it again. Test car was a mine with the following mods. Second cat removal, one resonator and muffler removed, fugita intake, turbosmart bc 13-15psi. I also have a mapclamp on the car and is clamped at 3.5 volts. I think thats right around 15psi. Here is the graph. I hope this help will put the debate to rest. Which is better cai or sri. LOL

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c44/Nismo311/mazdadynocaivssri.jpg

I will be testing the ets tmic and pg fuel pump hopefully tonight. Wish me luck!!!!!!!(nailbyt)

[SharkDiver]

To be honest it really dont prove anything.You could have not changed anything after the first pull and still get more or less hp,Thats just how dynos work.Just like when someone takes there car to a dyno and they do 3 pulls all 3 will be different and nothing was changed.The red line in the graph seems to be more of a smoother increase then the jagged blue line.I wonder if that means anything.

[ZOOMit]

I was thinking abt getting a CAI but the fear of sucking in water makes me lean towards a SRI, but I hate the idea of pulling in hot air from the engine. Although I could just make up a heat shield and fix that somewhat.

[driver311]

I forgot to mention that the redline is sri and the blue line is cai. Like I said take it for what you will. I didnt have the smoothing up high and this was in 4th gear so the line will be more accurate. Not a smoothed out version of what the car is actually doing.

Ps. Shark you dont have to tell me how a dyno works I live on them. My friend owns it and to be honest your statement is false. This dyno has been very consistant for me and all the cars and quads I have dynoed on it. Yes maybe a 1-3whp difference but otherwise pretty close. The only thing Im trying to portray with this post is that there isnt that much of a difference so why say one is better than the other. CAI IS OVER RATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just put something on there that flows good and be done with it. Thats the idea.

[driver311]

I was thinking abt getting a CAI but the fear of sucking in water makes me lean towards a SRI, but I hate the idea of pulling in hot air from the engine. Although I could just make up a heat shield and fix that somewhat.

Dude when your driving the engine bay is full of cool air and not to mention this is a turbo car people. No matter what the ari is going through a hot ass turbo so thats why we have an intercooler. YOu woould be wasting your time and money trying to build some form of shield. If you dont believe me go make some wot pulls and then pull over and feel your intercooler and intake tube. It will be cool to the touch I guarantee.

[SharkDiver]

I forgot to mention that the redline is sri and the blue line is cai. Like I said take it for what you will. I didnt have the smoothing up high and this was in 4th gear so the line will be more accurate. Not a smoothed out version of what the car is actually doing.

Ps. Shark you dont have to tell me how a dyno works I live on them. My friend owns it and to be honest your statement is false. This dyno has been very consistant for me and all the cars and quads I have dynoed on it. Yes maybe a 1-3whp difference but otherwise pretty close. The only thing Im trying to portray with this post is that there isnt that much of a difference so why say one is better than the other. CAI IS OVER RATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just put something on there that flows good and be done with it. Thats the idea.

How is my statement false?Do you want me to think that YOUR dyno shows the same numbers for you evertime you dyno it unless you change something?Also Im not tring to say 1 is better then the other because I dont know.

[driver311]

How is my statement false?Do you want me to think that YOUR dyno shows the same numbers for you evertime you dyno it unless you change something?Also Im not tring to say 1 is better then the other because I dont know.

Im not debating different days show different numbers. Thats a known fact. But I can do back to back to back dyno runs with proper cooling on the same day and they are always within a few whp. Thats my point. Thats why i say your statement is false. Im not comparing days to day here bud. This was within 20min. of each other. Dynos should be used as tuning tools and as long as you are using them on the same day under the same conditions they are very accurate.


Ps. part of the reason you see alot of peoples dyno runs inconsistant is because of the stock tmic. Heak soaks very easy on the dyno. Most dyno operators dont take that into account for the first few runs. So if you keep a fan on it the whole time your runs will be alot more consistant. Aftermarket intercooler makes for a much more consistant day. Hope this sheds some light

[Hirudin]

SRI is better... they're cheaper.

[driver311]

Very true. I like cheap. LOL

[Igve2shtz]

Nice post. I always wanted to see an un-biased approach to this question.

[2ManyCars]

CAI is better 'cause it's what I spent my money on and it looks cooler even if the air is not cooler...:)

[palerider]

Everybody knows the longer your pipe is, the more it'll scream. I say stick that sucker right thru to the ground!!

[justanothermp5]

so the cai makes more horses and the sri makes more torque, really there about equal just depends on what ur lookin for

[6262MS3]

hmm, this post makes the cobb sri look like a very good option for me. I wonder if mazda will get pissy about warranty 'cause it's not a mazdaspeed part? Also cobb should make a dry-filter option for the sri.

[rodney]

maybe minor diff. between torque and hp, but basically they are getting the same results just the sri cost less and looks better, so basically you are paying more for cai to gain nothing more than the sri

[aaronc7]

Looks like the blue line (CAI) is more 'curvy' whereas the SRI seems to be more steady. This could be because this CAI has bends in the pipe and would be more likely have more turbulence in the air as it passes thru the MAF area. Just an idea.

[chacon101]

Thanks for making this comparo with your setup/car but I personally don't really care what the other options are out there. I got the MS CAI because I knew Mazda wouldn't (or shouldn't) give me any crap about having it installed. Even if it didn't produce more power than the SRI, I would have still purchased it.

Also, although your dyno speaks for itself regarding numbers, I have seen other dyno sheets that show a bigger increase of power over stock than any I have seen with an SRI.

[ispypsi]

yes, there could be turbulence playing a little bit of trickery on the MAFs but that's about the only difference there.

i'm going more for the SRI only because i don't like the idea that the MS CAI is basically one of my car payments :lol:


i do chuckle at people who think having a CAI is going to ruin their motor in wet weather. people, unless you're forging rivers like in oregon trail, you're not going to get the CAI wet. why? the car has fender liners, and there is no hole at the foglight area for water to enter. you'd seriously have to drive through some deep water to get the filter totally submerged.

[ccann26]

CAI is better 'cause it's what I spent my money on and it looks cooler even if the air is not cooler...:)

+1 its just where my money went (headbang)

Great thread thanks for doing the research 311 .

[Sacrilicious]

nice post. although this doesn't actually PROVE anything persay, it does give more supporting evidence that a CAI isn't nearly as much of an improvement over the SRI as people keep boasting. this would probably look a lot different if we were testing a NA car, but fortunately for us, we're boostin like maniacs, so the "cold air" makes very little difference! (alright)

[Sacrilicious]

to any naysayers: go convert your CAI to a SRI and see the difference. if you seriously think it made a huge difference, bring your same-day dyno runs here and we can all look at them. until someone can actually prove to me otherwise, i'm stickin with my cobb SRI...;)

[flipstylex]

which is better , pepsi or coke..ssheeeshh.

another one of those comparison, and aruments evolve ;)

anyways, get what u want, as long as the car can breath, it dont matter what kind of tubing i gets, as the results shows, it's fairly similar.

now here r the facts

sri is cheaper, maintainance is better,
cai CAn hydolock, more expensive.

go figure

[Igve2shtz]

i do chuckle at people who think having a CAI is going to ruin their motor in wet weather. people, unless you're forging rivers like in oregon trail, you're not going to get the CAI wet. why? the car has fender liners, and there is no hole at the foglight area for water to enter. you'd seriously have to drive through some deep water to get the filter totally submerged.

Granted I do not have a MS3, but hydrolock IS an issue with a CAI.

A few months ago I was driving in PA when a freak T-storm hit. It rained hardcore for 15 minutes, then died down. Well, flash flooding was a major problem, and as I was driving home, I was going under an overpass at 60 mph, and the road was flooded. I hit it,a nd instanateously, every dash light came on, and the engine stalled. Granted, this is I-95, not some piss ass cow-path. Everyother stock car made it through no problem. The impact of the car hitting the water actually knocked the filter right off of the pipe (and yes, it ws on tight). Luckily, I saw the puddle coming and I shifted to Neutral and took my foot off the gas. I am 100% convinced that if I were on the gas, I would have blown an engine, bent a valve, etc. If you dont think CAI make a difference, I challenge you to break down on I95 in the middle of a travel lane.

[CB08MS3]

Granted I do not have a MS3, but hydrolock IS an issue with a CAI.

A few months ago I was driving in PA when a freak T-storm hit. It rained hardcore for 15 minutes, then died down. Well, flash flooding was a major problem, and as I was driving home, I was going under an overpass at 60 mph, and the road was flooded. I hit it,a nd instanateously, every dash light came on, and the engine stalled. Granted, this is I-95, not some piss ass cow-path. Everyother stock car made it through no problem. The impact of the car hitting the water actually knocked the filter right off of the pipe (and yes, it ws on tight). Luckily, I saw the puddle coming and I shifted to Neutral and took my foot off the gas. I am 100% convinced that if I were on the gas, I would have blown an engine, bent a valve, etc. If you dont think CAI make a difference, I challenge you to break down on I95 in the middle of a travel lane.

What car do you have?

[Igve2shtz]

What car do you have?

Speed6

[Ryz]

People seem to forget, a SRI can hydrolock as well. It all depends on how deep the water is. Plus the OP's graph shows there is little difference, everything else he states is opinion not fact.

[DusterAZ]

People seem to forget, a SRI can hydrolock as well. It all depends on how deep the water is. Plus the OP's graph shows there is little difference, everything else he states is opinion not fact.

LOL, if you manage to hydrolock w/ the SRI you get special award in my book. That would be the "Special Ed" award.

[fourthmeal]

You'd hydrolock a stock car if you got water high enough to take out an SRI.

I think its been mentioned, but if you cut the Fujita up, you've likely introduced a bit of turbulence into the system with the mock-SRI you made. The Cobb SRI's air straightener is good, solid engineering designed to solve this exact problem.

[Betelgeuse]

Damn you for posting this! Now I have to sell the CAI at half price! j/k


Good post, you can see how smoother the SRI's line is. Without you even posting I knew the SRI was the red line. Just more proof the air straightener works!

[iBoost]

CAI > RSI : Because : Cobb didnt make RSI yet when i got my CAI lol... 1st one to the finish line gets the win .. lol jk (crazy)

[Moonpie.Express]

Hydrolocked SRI = U-Boat Commander!

Thanks for posting the run! (drinks)
I was kinda already sold on the the SRI anyway and am looking forward to getting it.

[crystalmeth3]

Question for Driver311
You state there is no benefit to the cai over sri in terms of air temperature when its past the turbo. My question is, then why does everyone notice a big difference in performance when its cold outside? You hear people saying how much stronger it runs. Perhaps the difference they are noticing is as extreme as a 50 degree or even more between a hot day run and a cold day run. Without being certain, i would guess you can see those same temperature differences in outside air temp compared to under hood close to hot motor air temp. I think the cai has the dramatic benefit of much cooler air than the sri under any circumstance.
Just wondering before i order either cp-e cai (4'' cut from filter tube end) or cobb sri.

[Sacrilicious]

Question for Driver311
You state there is no benefit to the cai over sri in terms of air temperature when its past the turbo. My question is, then why does everyone notice a big difference in performance when its cold outside? You hear people saying how much stronger it runs. Perhaps the difference they are noticing is as extreme as a 50 degree or even more between a hot day run and a cold day run. Without being certain, i would guess you can see those same temperature differences in outside air temp compared to under hood close to hot motor air temp. I think the cai has the dramatic benefit of much cooler air than the sri under any circumstance.
Just wondering before i order either cp-e cai (4'' cut from filter tube end) or cobb sri.

the main issue here is that you're talking about a 50 degree difference, but in most cases, the temp difference is not NEARLY 50 degrees between a SRI and a CAI. when your car is rolling at 30mph, outside air is already getting blasted into the engine bay. at this point, there's minimal (if any) difference between taking air from inside the bay (like an SRI) or down by the fender (like a CAI). in theory, the CAI should perform better, but practically speaking, they usually end up getting the about same temp air anyways.

[driver311]

I run a sri because I believe there is no benefit to a cai on a turbo car. Go drive your car for 10-30 minutes. Then pull over and pop your hood. Feel your intake box and tell me what you feel. Im betting it will cold to the touch, just like my sri intake tube is everytime. We have ram ari on our car. Have your forgotten that? The so called cold air is blasting into the engine bay everytime you drive it. I believe and have dyno verification to back my thoughts up that the shorter path of travel is best on a turbo car. On srts and evos its a much bigger difference. On my old srt I picked up 5whp on the dyno taking off my cold air extenstion. so i kept it off after that. Na cars are a different story. Order what you think is best for you. But Im telling you from fact there is no benefit to a cai on this car. The proof is in the dyno numbers.


Just go drive it and feel for yourself.

[Sacrilicious]

btw...the question that pops to mind from my previous post is that "what about if you get heat soaked at a stop light and then want to take off fast?" well, here's something to think about: who the heck cares if we don't get the full benefit of our intake from a dig? we're already squealing the crap out of our tires as it is, so just as long as we get full power at 30mph+, will we even notice a real difference in 1/4 mile ET?

in practice, trying to find advantages of the CAI over the SRI becomes harder and harder when you take things out onto the street. when you take realistic scenarios into account, you will probably never ACTUALLY see any sort of perceivable performance improvement over the SRI by using a CAI.

[shark77]

btw...the question that pops to mind from my previous post is that "what about if you get heat soaked at a stop light and then want to take off fast?" well, here's something to think about: who the heck cares if we don't get the full benefit of our intake from a dig? we're already squealing the crap out of our tires as it is, so just as long as we get full power at 30mph+, will we even notice a real difference in 1/4 mile ET?

in practice, trying to find advantages of the CAI over the SRI becomes harder and harder when you take things out onto the street. when you take realistic scenarios into account, you will probably never ACTUALLY see any sort of perceivable performance improvement over the SRI by using a CAI.

Just to chime in on top of that, heat soak will be 100x more of a factor concerning the TMIC than any CAI vs. SRI difference will be. Essentially making the whole issue mute.

[Fritch]

Question for Driver311
You state there is no benefit to the cai over sri in terms of air temperature when its past the turbo. My question is, then why does everyone notice a big difference in performance when its cold outside? You hear people saying how much stronger it runs. Perhaps the difference they are noticing is as extreme as a 50 degree or even more between a hot day run and a cold day run. Without being certain, i would guess you can see those same temperature differences in outside air temp compared to under hood close to hot motor air temp. I think the cai has the dramatic benefit of much cooler air than the sri under any circumstance.
Just wondering before i order either cp-e cai (4'' cut from filter tube end) or cobb sri.
they notice a big difference because the intercooler is getting the colder air

the intake won't make a difference.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I find two things interesting here.
One is that people keep saying that the engine compartment is constantly blasted by cold air. I disagree. We have that under panel blocking airflow from beneath the front bumper. The air coming under the front of the hood is caught and ducted to the intercooler and battery box. Most of the rest of the air is coming through the radiator and various coolers, where it is picking up heat. In theory an SRI should be sitting in a cloud of hot air. Dyno runs are done in a stationary car with the hood usually open. This means that all that heat from the radiator and coolers (including the intercooler itself) is not trapped under the hood, getting sucked into the SRI. Sounds like it is impossible to do a real comparison of the two on a dyno. The only way to determine which is better is to get someone who doesn't give a rat's ass which is better and has proven racing skills to do some timed performance tests, both 1/4 mile and road track.
The other thing I find interesting here is that the SRI that was tested was not designed to be an SRI but still produced a smoother power curve than the CAI did. Perhaps the SRI has a drivability advantage.

[Ryz]

LOL, if you manage to hydrolock w/ the SRI you get special award in my book. That would be the "Special Ed" award.

Which is what I believe about those that have stated they hydrolocked with the MS CAI.

[PeterC]

Cobb is releasing a heat shield/box type thing for the SRI with a hose that goes down to the front of the car to suck in cold air. Wouldn't this be almost the best of both worlds? Colder air and no hydrolock worries.

Pics here:
http://blogs.cobbtuning.com/?p=16

[PeterC]

I also have a question about SRIs in general, do they make a ton of noise when you are just driving normally, not pushing it? I want an SRI, but I also don't want all this crazy noise when I am just cruising around listening to the stereo.

[Sierra117]

Colder air and no hydrolock worries.

Where the hell do you all live? Indonesia?

I've had CAIs on all of my cars, been in plenty of serious flash floods, and never had hydrolock.

[robin2660]

Just to chime in on top of that, heat soak will be 100x more of a factor concerning the TMIC than any CAI vs. SRI difference will be. Essentially making the whole issue mute.

MOOT.

[robin2660]

I find two things interesting here.
One is that people keep saying that the engine compartment is constantly blasted by cold air. I disagree. We have that under panel blocking airflow from beneath the front bumper. The air coming under the front of the hood is caught and ducted to the intercooler and battery box. Most of the rest of the air is coming through the radiator and various coolers, where it is picking up heat. In theory an SRI should be sitting in a cloud of hot air. Dyno runs are done in a stationary car with the hood usually open. This means that all that heat from the radiator and coolers (including the intercooler itself) is not trapped under the hood, getting sucked into the SRI. Sounds like it is impossible to do a real comparison of the two on a dyno. The only way to determine which is better is to get someone who doesn't give a rat's ass which is better and has proven racing skills to do some timed performance tests, both 1/4 mile and road track.
The other thing I find interesting here is that the SRI that was tested was not designed to be an SRI but still produced a smoother power curve than the CAI did. Perhaps the SRI has a drivability advantage.

I reckon a simple temperature sensor like one of those "inside/outside" thermometers would do the job. Record outside temp, engine bay temp, and maybe intake temp.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I reckon a simple temperature sensor like one of those "inside/outside" thermometers would do the job. Record outside temp, engine bay temp, and maybe intake temp.

The perfect place to install such a gauge would be in the tube that feeds the turbo, like that new piece that was just posted. It would be interesting to know if it makes any difference.
Although, now that I think about it, the bottom line is what temp the air is that is getting pumped into the engine, so putting a temp sensor at the outlet of the intercooler would be the best place.

[Haltech]

I thought we already has a two sensors, one IAT before the intercooler and one after? Anyone with a Dashhawk should be able to confirm this.

[Sacrilicious]

I find two things interesting here.
One is that people keep saying that the engine compartment is constantly blasted by cold air. I disagree. We have that under panel blocking airflow from beneath the front bumper. The air coming under the front of the hood is caught and ducted to the intercooler and battery box. Most of the rest of the air is coming through the radiator and various coolers, where it is picking up heat. In theory an SRI should be sitting in a cloud of hot air. Dyno runs are done in a stationary car with the hood usually open. This means that all that heat from the radiator and coolers (including the intercooler itself) is not trapped under the hood, getting sucked into the SRI. Sounds like it is impossible to do a real comparison of the two on a dyno. The only way to determine which is better is to get someone who doesn't give a rat's ass which is better and has proven racing skills to do some timed performance tests, both 1/4 mile and road track.
The other thing I find interesting here is that the SRI that was tested was not designed to be an SRI but still produced a smoother power curve than the CAI did. Perhaps the SRI has a drivability advantage.

the easiest way to see the difference is to do what driver311 already suggested: drive around for a while and then stop and pop open your hood...feel the intake hose and see that it's actually pretty cool to the touch. now, close the hood and idle the engine for about 5 min...pop the hood again and see the difference. the point of the exercise is simply that once you get moving, the air in the engine compartment DOES cycle pretty readily. if it didn't, there's no way in hell you would be able to get enough air out of it to feed the intake of an engine...;)

[Aaron2112]

Im glad to see this as i have always wondered what the difference really is SRI is safer and the loss of 3 hp to the CAI is no big deal but the gain of any torque is always a good thing i will go with SRI when i get my MS3 thanks for the info

Also easy heat fixes if thats bugging you....heat wrap or ceramic coating on the headers will greatly reduce engine bay heat im not even kidding ive put my hand on a header with heat wrap on it after taking a ride in my friends S/Ced Scion tc it was hot but i DID put my hand on the header and didnt get burnt.

[Jays07MS3]

I thought we already has a two sensors, one IAT before the intercooler and one after? Anyone with a Dashhawk should be able to confirm this.

Yeah we do have 2 IAT sensors, one at the MAF and one at the MAP but unfortunately the DH can only read the one at the MAF because the other one is a Mazda specific PID. But they are working on getting access to the Mazda specific parameters.

[Ryz]

Yep, more torque to spin tires at low speeds is what you need.

[driver311]

You guys are looking to close at the dyno. The difference between the two is to close to analyze. They make the same power. My point is cai is overrated and over priced. No need for it.

[mckraut]

Could anyone post or link a picture of the Cobb SRI installed in an MS3? I can't see to find one. Thanks.

Edit: Nevermind, found a couple of them.

[Ben Nast]

I run a sri because I believe there is no benefit to a cai on a turbo car. Go drive your car for 10-30 minutes. Then pull over and pop your hood. Feel your intake box and tell me what you feel. Im betting it will cold to the touch, just like my sri intake tube is everytime. We have ram ari on our car. Have your forgotten that? The so called cold air is blasting into the engine bay everytime you drive it. I believe and have dyno verification to back my thoughts up that the shorter path of travel is best on a turbo car. On srts and evos its a much bigger difference. On my old srt I picked up 5whp on the dyno taking off my cold air extenstion. so i kept it off after that. Na cars are a different story. Order what you think is best for you. But Im telling you from fact there is no benefit to a cai on this car. The proof is in the dyno numbers.


Just go drive it and feel for yourself.I always thought the same about the cai. I have always heard on the Srt4 that the cai was a waste of money and didnt doing anything. But I thought was different for the Ms3 and supposed to be dyno proven 15-20fwh. So you are saying this is crap?

[driver311]

If you put a cold air intake on a stock car it will lean it out and and give good gains. Its because its so rich in the first place. Its the same with all the first mods. If you did a tmic first it would do the same. but if you stack them you only see a little more than just doing one of them. That make sense?

[mazdaspeedster3]

i wonder why Mazdaspeed, the creators of our cars made a CAI and not a short ram... END OF ARGUMENT!

[Sacrilicious]

i wonder why Mazdaspeed, the creators of our cars made a CAI and not a short ram... END OF ARGUMENT!

dude, "mazdaspeed" didn't make squat. they outsourced to AEM, who did a piss poor job of it because they didn't do their research and didn't bother with air straighteners. now, mazdaspeed CAIs are pulled from the market because they have been known to cause CELs and tuners like cobb are having a hell of a time tuning for them because they have turbulent airflow over the MAF and just end up being hard as hell to account for.

ya, mazda still honors warranty claims on the MS CAI, but only because they're stuck between a rock and a hard spot: they're the jackasses that let these out of the bag in the first place. if i were mazda, i would have fired the idiot who passed the MS CAI through inspection and put the mazdaspeed stamp of approval on it!

[Ghost Rider]

dude, "mazdaspeed" didn't make squat. they outsourced to AEM, who did a piss poor job of it because they didn't do their research and didn't bother with air straighteners. now, mazdaspeed CAIs are pulled from the market because they have been known to cause CELs and tuners like cobb are having a hell of a time tuning for them because they have turbulent airflow over the MAF and just end up being hard as hell to account for.

ya, mazda still honors warranty claims on the MS CAI, but only because they're stuck between a rock and a hard spot: they're the jackasses that let these out of the bag in the first place. if i were mazda, i would have fired the idiot who passed the MS CAI through inspection and put the mazdaspeed stamp of approval on it!

(werd)

[Sacrilicious]

on a sidenote, it's really nice to have this thread bumped to the top again, because it's always a really useful reference for when the SRI vs CAI question comes up...:D

[LENNY127]

I think the test shows what 311 stated, not much of a difference either way. Now between Cobb SRI and MS CAI....... one has an air straightener the other one doesnt...... lets see those 2 in a sided to side comparo. Also 311....for the next test stick a "tornado" on the sri and post some dyno numbers and lets show all these guys what "real" power is all about.

[whitey4311]

Dyno for this proves nothing when the hood is open and a fan blows over the top of the SRI. Shut the hood and let it take in that hot engine bay air.

Dumb!

[Sacrilicious]

you mean fan moving air into the engine bay like a moving car at 30mph would?

[Sacrilicious]

here's the bottom line: this thread is about the best-backed argument EITHER WAY for this "fight". the best the CAI people can come back with is that the SRI is sucking up "hot engine bay air"...yes, this matters when you're sitting at a light, but once you get moving again, the engine bay is getting all sorts of cold air from the outside.

...and then there's the matter of the intercooler. ya, you have hotter air going into the turbo, but that air gets compressed to 15psi and heated up to 200F+...then it gets cooled down by the intercooler using ambient air, leaving the differences not NEARLY as noticeable. there's a reason why people who have gone to the cobb SRI from the MS CAI say they don't notice a bit of difference...

remember: we're driving a turbocharged car...not a NA one.

[Ghost Rider]

here's the bottom line: this thread is about the best-backed argument EITHER WAY for this "fight". the best the CAI people can come back with is that the SRI is sucking up "hot engine bay air"...yes, this matters when you're sitting at a light, but once you get moving again, the engine bay is getting all sorts of cold air from the outside.

...and then there's the matter of the intercooler. ya, you have hotter air going into the turbo, but that air gets compressed to 15psi and heated up to 200F+...then it gets cooled down by the intercooler using ambient air, leaving the differences not NEARLY as noticeable. there's a reason why people who have gone to the cobb SRI from the MS CAI say they don't notice a bit of difference...

remember: we're driving a turbocharged car...not a NA one.

Yet some folks refuse to comprehend this..(screwy)

[happy and angry]

Dyno for this proves nothing when the hood is open and a fan blows over the top of the SRI. Shut the hood and let it take in that hot engine bay air.

Dumb!It won't be taking hot engine bay air when moving. Oy.

[Ghost Rider]

H & A, this guy is a known troll, he/ she just goes around planting seeds of hate and discontent towards any ones views and or ideas that suggest that the Cobb SRI is in anyway better / equal to a CAI.

[whitey4311]

H & A, this guy is a known troll, he/ she just goes around planting seeds of hate and discontent towards any ones views and or ideas that suggest that the Cobb SRI is in anyway better / equal to a CAI.

Funny I have not been banned x4 under different names like you Ms3077, hard2kill, ghost rider, usmc98, and 1 more that I cant find where you tried to say you were from the Philippines.

If you werent so retarded and would stop responding to SRI threads like you sell them then I dont think we would know its you all the time.

So maybe time to think of a new name because this one will be gone soon.

[Ghost Rider]

Funny I have not been banned x4 under different names like you Ms3077, hard2kill, ghost rider, usmc98, and 1 more that I cant find where you tried to say you were from the Philippines.

If you werent so retarded and would stop responding to SRI threads like you sell them then I dont think we would know its you all the time.

So maybe time to think of a new name because this one will be gone soon.

Sounds like a cry for help.

[fragchild]

Dyno for this proves nothing when the hood is open and a fan blows over the top of the SRI. Shut the hood and let it take in that hot engine bay air.

Dumb!

My dyno numbers were higher with the hood closed then it did when it was open, and I have the Cobb SRI.

[MAZDA_SPEED]

dont get a CAI...save your money and get a TIP or a DV
pictures are worth a million words...cai are worth less SRI>CAI
pictures off vortex, but it will work here as well
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a175/Kain420/img003.jpg CAI
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a175/Kain420/File0005.jpg Stock air box

[Ghost Rider]

Great post Mazda speed!

[hectik1]

Best illustration EVER!(rofl)

[black_ninja23]

so basically, according to that well drawn diagram, don't waste my money on CAI? and instead save it for an upgraded intercooler? (drive2)

[MAZDA_SPEED]

man, cant you read...it said "good intercooler is intercooling the air"(chair)

jk, its your choice. dont bag on the well drawn diagram. its the only proof we have that SRI is better than a CAI (rofl2)

[Silver Ecstasy]

If you guys really care, we're going to attempt to do some data logging on the Dashhawk soon.

My car completely bone stock.
CWPspeed3 with Cobb SRI.
Mazdaspeedster3 with CAI.

Apparently, they've already done a few races from a dig, and they were dead even. But to solve all this nonsense, I think we're going to take it upon ourselves to log the data and let you guys deal with the myths.

I will most likely end up getting a Cobb SRI, just for the ease of install and maintenance.

[gr3y]

SRI is better... they're cheaper.

From the dyno, power output seems a bit smoother with it (The SRI).. but that could just be MAF sensor problems w/ the CAI

[Trader]

I think you guys are missing something here.

According to the Adiabatic Processes equations for a turbo charger and intercooler theory, the intake temperature will not only affect (and amplify) the temperature after the turbo it will affect the temperature after the intercooler, putting hotter air into your engine.

The intake temperature has a big affect on performance. If you are sucking air inside the engine bay you will work your intercooler alot harder resulting in heat soak.

Take a look at the link below:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm

Now lets enter some numbers- I used the following:

Intake Temp = 70 degrees
Inlet pressure = 14 psi absolute (assume -.7 loss due to intake/pipe (14.7-0.7))
Outlet pressure = 16 psi
Compressor efficiency = 65

So with this scenario you get a temperature after the turbo of 266 degrees F.

Now lets assume you are getting air from the engine bay that is 100 degrees.

Now you get at temperature after the turbo of 307 degrees.

Is that 41 extra degrees going to heat soak your intercooler faster?? YOU BET.

But it gets worse because even before your intercooler heat soaks you are still getting hotter air at the intake manifold.

If you continue the calculation with the intercooler calcs assuming the following:

Intercooler efficiency = 75
IC pressure loss = 1 psi
Ambient Temp = 70 degrees

With a starting intake temperature of 70 degrees you get a intercooler outlet temp of 119 degrees. With sucking hot engine bay air of 100 degrees you end up with intercooler outlet temperature of 129 degrees.

So right off the bat you gain 10 degrees going into your engine, and this occurs even before your intercooler heat soaks. So this will get worse faster due to quicker heat soak with an intake that is sucking hot engine bay air.

Some other reading if you are interested:

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

http://www.stealth316.com/2-adiabat1.htm

[lestat13]

From the dyno, power output seems a bit smoother with it (The SRI).. but that could just be MAF sensor problems w/ the CAI

cobb has an airflow straightener (forget the technical term) that reduces turbulence before the air hits the MAF. that alone could account for the smoother curve. whether or not the air flows any better, if the air hitting the maf from the cai isn't as consistent the ecu isn't as conisistent. I dunno, I've been up since 7am and its after 11pm and I'm tired. I hope this makes sense.......

[CoolWhip]

cobb has an airflow straightener (forget the technical term) that reduces turbulence before the air hits the MAF. that alone could account for the smoother curve. whether or not the air flows any better, if the air hitting the maf from the cai isn't as consistent the ecu isn't as conisistent. I dunno, I've been up since 7am and its after 11pm and I'm tired. I hope this makes sense.......

You're "tired" (beer)

Jk lol

I'm glad I got the chance to see this thread, its old and past my time lol ...

I

[parkerfe]

There are no vents directing air from the outside to under the hood; except for the one that directs outside air to the intercooler and electronic box. If the air were so cool under the hood, such a vent would not be necessary and Mazda engineers would not have designed same. The intercooler needs such cooler outside air to work at its optimum. All the air under the hood while the car is moving has first been heated by passing through radiator. Remember, the engine is water cooled, not air cooled. The air in the front fender well has not passed through the radiator and is thus cooler. Cooler air is more dense and can atomize more fuel which equals more power. Since the a CAI provides cooler/denser air to the turbo, more is compressed to flow into the intercooler and engine and thus produce more power.

[parkerfe]

cobb has an airflow straightener (forget the technical term) that reduces turbulence before the air hits the MAF. that alone could account for the smoother curve. whether or not the air flows any better, if the air hitting the maf from the cai isn't as consistent the ecu isn't as conisistent. I dunno, I've been up since 7am and its after 11pm and I'm tired. I hope this makes sense.......

FYI, the Mazdaspeed CAI has an airflow straightener too...

[15min5k]

There are no vents directing air from the outside to under the hood; except for the one that directs outside air to the intercooler and electronic box. If the air were so cool under the hood, such a vent would not be necessary and Mazda engineers would not have designed same. The intercooler needs such cooler outside air to work at its optimum. All the air under the hood while the car is moving has first been heated by passing through radiator. Remember, the engine is water cooled, not air cooled. The air in the front fender well has not passed through the radiator and is thus cooler. Cooler air is more dense and can atomize more fuel which equals more power. Since the a CAI provides cooler/denser air to the turbo, more is compressed to flow into the intercooler and engine and thus produce more power.

Then were the hell is your proof? Apparently you're wrong so don't just go around spreading bum scoop. Even if the intake temps are a little lower with a CAI, it wouldn’t make a damn difference considering this car is turbo charged (air first goes through a hot ass turbo!) and then a intercooler. In a controlled environment I’ve tested this whole CAI vs. SRI debate and there’s no way in hell that a CAI makes a significant difference in power out put vs. a SRI. You make the big increase in power with this car because the stock air box is very restrictive. Oh and there’s no use comparing DYNO #’s unless you’ve done it in a controlled manner as the OP did. DYNO #’s very like crazy from DYNO to DYNO.

[mazdaspeedster3]

Hmm... And yet Mazdaspeed has not even considered a SRI.

[15min5k]

Hmm... And yet Mazdaspeed has not even considered a SRI.

That's because too many people have been brainwashed into thinking that a CAI is better. Go on and believe what you want to believe, I know the truth and will not be wasting money on a CAI. You could spend half as much on a SRI that yields the same benefits and have the ability to easily clean the filter, install /uninstall and no worries about hydrolock unless you drive into a lake.

[GoFast]

That's because too many people have been brainwashed into thinking that a CAI is better. Go on and believe what you want to believe, I know the truth and will not be wasting money on a CAI. You could spend half as much on a SRI that yields the same benefits and have the ability to easily clean the filter, install /uninstall and no worries about hydrolock unless you drive into a lake.

ok 15min5k. I actually sorta agree with you. I really dont think that there is much of a performance gain with either or. If there is, it's quite negligible and and mainly on the "top end" (120+). Either one will be a huge gain over stock.

Here is what i don't get though. in another thread you stated something that i agree with whole heartedly:

You don't need to Modify this car for it to be enjoyed. Infact, modifying carries with it great risk in many cases. Just leave it stock and enjoy. It's a aweome ride striaght off the lot and congrats on the purchase!


By saying you would never go with a CAI, you are basically contradicting that considering the only warranty friendly intake is in fact a CAI.

[15min5k]

ok 15min5k. I actually sorta agree with you. I really dont think that there is much of a performance gain with either or. If there is, it's quite negligible and and mainly on the "top end" (120+). Either one will be a huge gain over stock.

Here is what i don't get though. in another thread you stated something that i agree with whole heartedly:



By saying you would never go with a CAI, you are basically contradicting that considering the only warranty friendly intake is in fact a CAI.

Well, an SRI is so easy to take off (20 min tops) I wouldn't worry about that much. However, personally I wouldn't go much beyond that. I actually had a Cobb SRI, SU MM, and TWM SS w/bushings on my car but took it all off to make a warranty claim regarding my transmission. After my entire transmission was rebuilt I didn't bother putting my modifications back on because I forgot how good the stock ride was and I don't need anymore power at the moment. I sold all 3 modifications’ but keep the shifter bushings on the car so now my car is basically stock besides the 225/40/18 tires and I love it and it's nice having the piece of mind if something breaks. The “driver mod” is by far the best mod anyway. A good driver driving a stock MS3 will smoke an Avg driver driving the same car with a 15-25hp advantage every time.

[Parkeway]

http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/general-info/HotAirWARNING.pdf

Kenne Bell (one of the world's foremost forced induction specialty shops) helped advance this industry and felt compelled to issue the article above.

I am still shopping for a solution on the MS3, but put a lot of weight in technical evaluations. Having built a SC'd Miata with an SRI, I have experience with hot air (pun intended), and the AEM underhood intake was just what the doctor ordered. However, I also experienced detonation that I chased constantly with e-Manage Ultimate, especially at the shorter road courses (less airflow). I then dropped in a more efficient intercooler solution to help remedy a problem which really began at the filter.

Anywho...I thought that is article might be a worthy addition to the ongoing debate!

[RC08MS3]

this thread goes wayyy back haha, but yea

in reality, a dyno isnt going to prove a performance difference over a CAI and a SRI, come on guys, on the highway when the engine is screamin for its life, do you want your intake next to a screamin hot motor, or in the weld suckin in cool air? since when is numbers the deciding factor for something? there just numbers, the deciding factor is performance

if you were to take the front vents off, and convert to a FMIC setup with no top mount, then yea, the SRI will prob [perform] just as well as a CAI, becuase its getting air from the same outside source, and technically would be a CAI

[15min5k]

Neat, but this isn't the case with our MS3.

[GoFast]

why?

[15min5k]

this thread goes wayyy back haha, but yea

in reality, a dyno isnt going to prove a performance difference over a CAI and a SRI, come on guys, on the highway when the engine is screamin for its life, do you want your intake next to a screamin hot motor, or in the weld suckin in cool air? since when is numbers the deciding factor for something? there just numbers, the deciding factor is performance

if you were to take the front vents off, and convert to a FMIC setup with no top mount, then yea, the SRI will prob [perform] just as well as a CAI, becuase its getting air from the same outside source, and technically would be a CAI

Again, once the car is moving the intake temps aren't much different. You guys really need to start back from the beginning of this thread because there's obviously a lack of knowledge going on here.

[15min5k]

why?

look below and read thread from the beginning for a better understanding on how the SRI works, etc.. I don't have time to debate this topic all day.

[15min5k]

Dude when your driving the engine bay is full of cool air and not to mention this is a turbo car people. No matter what the ari is going through a hot ass turbo so thats why we have an intercooler. YOu woould be wasting your time and money trying to build some form of shield. If you dont believe me go make some wot pulls and then pull over and feel your intercooler and intake tube. It will be cool to the touch I guarantee.

I agree!

Buy a CAI if you want ppl but you're just wasting your money. later.

[GoFast]

this has been argued before, i just couldnt find it after a few minutes of searching. While i agree that air in the engine compartment would be cooler at speeds there still has to be a difference between air temps that are injested between an sri and a cai. I know someone has measured this witha dashhawk before. If you want another argument for this look here:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123709788&highlight=cold+air+box

obviously someone other than me, cobb, saw a need for cooler air than what was being provided in the engine compartment.

just for the record i am only arguing the statement that ken bell's theory is wrong

[ringolake]

Do you pick up about 1 mpg under average conditions for both?

[15min5k]

this has been argued before, i just couldnt find it after a few minutes of searching. While i agree that air in the engine compartment would be cooler at speeds there still has to be a difference between air temps that are injested between an sri and a cai. I know someone has measured this witha dashhawk before. If you want another argument for this look here:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123709788&highlight=cold+air+box

obviously someone other than me, cobb, saw a need for cooler air than what was being provided in the engine compartment.

just for the record i am only arguing the statement that ken bell's theory is wrong


Cold air box was discussed just to give the non believers peace of mind and of course to increase sales.

[GoFast]

Cold air box was discussed just to give the non believers peace of mind and of course to increase sales.

opinion or fact?

[15min5k]

opinion or fact?

Neither, common sense.

[GoFast]

ahh i see. lol

[GoFast]

sorry kenne bell, it has been decided that your years of experience and expertise are proved wrong because of common sense and the MS3 defies physics. (freak)

[15min5k]

sorry kenne bell, it has been decided that your years of experience and expertise are proved wrong because of common sense and the MS3 defies physics. (freak)

Like I said before, believe and buy what you want to buy. I personally happen to know it doesn't make a significant enough difference to go with a CAI. No, I can't prove it but that's okay, the important thing to me is that I know I'm not getting ripped nor brainwashed.

[GoFast]

Like I said before, believe and buy what you want to buy. I personally happen to know it doesn't make a significant enough difference to go with a CAI. No, I can't prove it but that's okay, the important thing to me is that I know I'm not getting ripped nor brainwashed.

that seems to be a recurring theme with your arguments or points of view. YOU happen to know that they are fact but can never really back anything up with any kind of fact or factual based points.

Like I said before in this post, there are things that you say that I agree with but a lot of times you go off and make these statements that tell the entire modding world that they are wrong and get upset when somebody asks you to back it up.

[Abilor]

Wait a sec. I monitor intake air temp with my dashhawk, and sure enough, if I idle with my Nano the temps go up. But when it's 60 degrees out, and I'm moving above 35 mph, the SRI intake temp is usually 65, for example. I'm not drag racing, I don't sit in pits, although I do drive in Baton Rouge, which is similar. hehe. My point being, my SRI at speed pulls in air that's about 5 degrees above ambient. So this whole, "what do you want at peak speed on the interstate, do you really want HOT, BITCH ASS, SATAN'S NUT SACK, ENGINE AIR, PLAYA?!" discussion is moot - I'm pulling in nice cool air from the bay, no problem. The idle thing I get - heat soak. But while you're moving? What's the difference, really, for those of us who haul groceries on the wau home from work at 110mph?

[Trader]

Yea but even 5-10 degrees over time will amplify your Boosted air temps. And will heat soak your intake track faster. Does the engine perform better with 10 degree cooler boosted air temps? YES... It will be less knock prone and will flow more air mass at the same time.

15min5k

Did you read my post here?

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123692556&page=6

Our intake tracks and intercooler acts like heat sinks. The intercooler also acts as a heat exchanger. So while you sit in traffic with the higher temps you will heat up your whole intake track and intercooler.

I can agreee with you that in the whole scheme of things, this is a relatively small issue. Even less if you run a FMIC. And is probably a moot issue most of the time when ambient temps are below 70 degrees.

But on those hot 80 to 90 degree days, the engine bay can be really hot. If you sit idle for any length of time you could start to heat soak and overwelm the little stocker intercooler.

Look.... these (all turbo) engines hate heat. Heat kills turbo engines. Heat is the enemy of these engines as far as performance and longevity. I will say it again.... Heat is the enemy of a turbo engine. Any time you can limit the amount of heat (especially going into the intake track) even by a small amout... I would advise doing it.

So.... I will not run a SRI without a properly ducted air box. Maybe I am anal, maybe paranoid? who knows, but I have modded turbo cars before, and I have come to realise that I only put the best on my car even if it costs a little more. And in my opinion CAI>SRI

[15min5k]

The OP already backed up the claim that CAI>SRI isn't true with a controlled test. I live in Central Florida, gets hot as hell out here. From first hand experience I personally know a CAI isn't worth the extra money over a SRI which has several other benefits as well (One being throttle response) I've driven a CAI and SRI MS3 in the middle of summer 100+ to see if one or the other would pull harder. End results were always the same, the SRI equipped car would be dead even if not slightly ahead along with better throttle response and a more satisfying sound. You can kick your "theories" around all day but that isn't going to convince me. Just do as I did and find out for yourself if you really want to know the truth. Perhaps the CAI will give you 2-3 extra HP but that isn’t enough to make up for the shortcomings such as throttle response, price, and ease of use, etc. If you have a SRI and CAI MS3 race, the better driver will win every time.

[Trader]

The OP already backed up the claim that CAI>SRI isn't true with a controlled test.

It proves nothing.

Hardly a test that represents everyday driving. Dyno's are usually done with the hood open and with a fan where the SRI would have access to ambient air.

Did the OP drive around in traffic for 15 minutes and then do this dyno, with the hood shut. That would be a more accurate test. I did not see anything in the op posts that says this.

Of course you are not going to see a difference between the two when you come to dyno pop the hood, put a fan on the open engine and dyno the two where the SRI has access to ambient air.



This whole op post makes no sense to even discuss the differences between the SRI and the CAI, because we all live in the real world where the hotter engine bay can change the dynamic.

[15min5k]

Once the car is moving the ambient air temps where the SRI is located drop significantly (No more hot engine bay) neglecting any advantage that a CAI might have in regards to the MS3. Been there done it, I know. Have fun changing / cleaning your filter for your CAI, this argument isn’t going anywhere.

[240ka]

The OP already backed up the claim that CAI>SRI isn't true with a controlled test. I live in Central Florida, gets hot as hell out here. From first hand experience I personally know a CAI isn't worth the extra money over a SRI which has several other benefits as well (One being throttle response) I've driven a CAI and SRI MS3 in the middle of summer 100+ to see if one or the other would pull harder. End results were always the same, the SRI equipped car would be dead even if not slightly ahead along with better throttle response and a more satisfying sound. You can kick your "theories" around all day but that isn't going to convince me. Just do as I did and find out for yourself if you really want to know the truth. Perhaps the CAI will give you 2-3 extra HP but that isn’t enough to make up for the shortcomings such as throttle response, price, and ease of use, etc. If you have a SRI and CAI MS3 race, the better driver will win every time.


Not sure where you are getting this from but when I switched my mscai to sri after a couple of days of driving the car I noticed my car didn't pull as hard as it did with cai. I live in here in orlando as well and as stated. When I did high roll comparisions with my boy. His ms3 is mhas the same mods as mine. Cai vs sri. We were dead even upto about 115 then I started to pull ahead. Everytime.

When I changed to sri we were dead even every run long as there was no mis-shifts. The cai sits out of the engine bay. I don't care how fast you are move with sri, the engine compartment will not provide air as cool as outside the engine bay. While the gains of cai arnt that much higher over sri, gains are gains.

Dollar value per hp gained is a totally different arguement. Are the gains of cai over sri worth the high price? No, I don't think so. Please believe if I didn't buy my mscai for only 125 shipped I would have gotten sri. At that point the cai was the better buy. Even if the cai was the same price of the sri I woukd have gotten it b/c I have the ability to switch between the two.

But this isn't about price vs performance. Its only about which show better gains abd the cai provides that.

Oh and I'm still running my mscai in sri mode b/c my turbo is loud and I rather the sound. Of turbo spool that than the little extra gains in performance. Butwill switch back to cai and try to see if I can tune the my bov right to where my spool is loud. Which I learned is how you minipulate the volume of the turbo. Or atleast with my car

Please excuse if there are typos. I'm typing on my tmobile g1 and getting use to the size of these damn buttons

[funksilver07]

The best one = the one that's on your car... (drinks)

[PCspeed3]

Air filters are overrated....

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/huntercall/e1bb6581d6b44af291d538ce9be3607d.jpg

[Circle9]

Hehe, I have rock chips all over the lower front of my car, I wonder how this set-up fairs.

[Sacrilicious]

Hehe, I have rock chips all over the lower front of my car, I wonder how this set-up fairs.

...with rock chips all over its pistons and cylinders? :D

[Wurf]

What we really need is an independant source like a tuner mag or a group of local MS3 owners to get together a collection of the various intakes, CPE nano, Cobb SRI, Injen, Fujita, etc. and dyno all of them on ONE car on the same day, back to back to control the variables. Monitor fuel trims and the whole nine and give us a scientific result.

As for CAI vs SRI I suspect the design differences and air flow characteristics between two given systems makes more of a difference in performance than colder air in the fenderwell compared to underhood air.

Lastly, taking a look at that Cobb solution with the air box rig, flexible air hose and velocity stack, I think I could make something like that myself pretty easily.

The velocity stacks can be found on the web. The hose is pretty universal stuff and the box could be made from brake bent aluminum sheet or plastic and pop riveted together.

[Silver Ecstasy]

Back to back wouldn't work. Not enough time for the ECU to learn the new intake and give a proper dyno, nor would it be fair as, all day the temps would change, the engine would have to be cooled down.

It would be easier just to dyno each car with each single intake.

[SubieKiller3]

Air filters are overrated....

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj265/huntercall/e1bb6581d6b44af291d538ce9be3607d.jpg

that is bad ass!

[MSP2003.5_Nick]

if you're gonna have your turbo like that I'd be trailering it to the track haha. Turbos don't like bugs and rocks.

As for CAI vs SRI...... for turbo it doesnt matter at all. The turbo sucks in just as much regardless of the pipe length and the air is cooled by the intercooler.

Now for N/A you start playing with pipe lengths and diameters on the dyno and you're gonna see a difference becasue you're helping the engine get more flow velocity by taking advantage of physics and the motors natural vacuum since you don't have a turbo to push it all in for you.

I've witnessed this first hand on dynos and you can see very substantial differences. Not saying you can buy an ebay intake and have a million horsepower though.

[Silver Ecstasy]

I hate to be off topic, but those RX-8 wheels look HOT on your MSP!!!

[robin2660]

Lastly, taking a look at that Cobb solution with the air box rig, flexible air hose and velocity stack, I think I could make something like that myself pretty easily.

The velocity stacks can be found on the web. The hose is pretty universal stuff and the box could be made from brake bent aluminum sheet or plastic and pop riveted together.

Excuse me, but what's this Cobb "air box rig"?

Thanks

[RC08MS3]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123709788&highlight=cold+air+box

i believe this is what he is referring to

[SubieKiller3]

I hate to be off topic, but those RX-8 wheels look HOT on your MSP!!!

yea, better than on a ms3. i dont know why people ditch their ms3 wheels for these other than the fact that they're a lot easier to clean.

[Silver Ecstasy]

I personally like the RX-8 wheels even on the MS3. I just thought they looked larger than life on that MSP. They look so basic on the MS3.

[Wurf]

RX8 wheels are cheap, wider, and a little lighter than stock MS3. A decent summer wheel to use if you put snows on the stockers and live where I do.

[Wurf]

Back to back wouldn't work. Not enough time for the ECU to learn the new intake and give a proper dyno, nor would it be fair as, all day the temps would change, the engine would have to be cooled down.

It would be easier just to dyno each car with each single intake.

Didn't consider the ECU learning - good point. If you run them on different motors, you're not taking into account any differences between the engines off the assembly line etc. It's not a scientific control.

Maybe another idea would be to use a standalone ECU and see what you can make max with each setup and tune.

[parkerfe]

Once the car is moving the ambient air temps where the SRI is located drop significantly (No more hot engine bay) neglecting any advantage that a CAI might have in regards to the MS3. Been there done it, I know. Have fun changing / cleaning your filter for your CAI, this argument isn’t going anywhere.

FYI, unlike a CAI, the under the hood air entering a SRI has to past through the radiator and AC condenser which raises its temperature substantially. So your argument isn't going anywhere...