What do you guys think of these SSRs

[RelliMS3]

So i'm going to be getting some new wheels soon and right now it looks like i'm gonna go with the SSR Type C-RS. I know that they are kind of expensive, but they are exactly what i'm looking for. I'll be getting them in black, which they don't have a picture of, but here is the anthracite version:

http://www.tirerack.com/images/wheels/ssr/swap/ssr_typec_rs_anth_ci3_l.jpg

What do you guys think?

[chacon101]

I think the design is nice and since your car is black, it should look good. I personally don't like alot of letters on stuff whether it be the shirt I am wearing or the wheels on my car. I do like the three colors on one side but the other is just overkill IMO.

[RelliMS3]

oh yeah i agree with that. mark404040 got some wheels from ssr and i asked about those letters. he said that you can choose to put them on if you want. i would definitely leave them off.

[fourthmeal]

They're the sex!



...


Seriously, great wheel. I like them as much as I love the 5Ziegens of the same design.

The Name SSR implies they are Semi-Solid Forged design, a very strong, flexible (on a relative scale), and durable wheel. The ONLY wheels I find in the same quality level is BBS, Volk, and Rays. That is it.

I haven't researched if they are available in a high offset 8" or not, but if you're working with an MS3 you might want to look at that. A high offset 8" will fit a 235 or even 245mm tire, and that means you get a lot of MEAT under this car.

Whatcha think?

[RelliMS3]

oh yeah, thats another thing. i was thinking of going to 225 wide, but could i go up to 235?

[drledford93]

With the right offset, you could probably push 245-255s. Don't quote me on it, but if I could race on a 235 tire with a 6.5" rim (granted, different car), then I think an 8" rim could hold at least some more meat...

[Hirudin]

I started a similar thread where you might be able to get some more opinions...
SSR Type C-RS (good company? 2 piece?) (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123684525&highlight=ssr)

I personally went with Motegi Traklite 17x8s. (Wanted Traklite 2s, but the jackass company sent the wrong wheels and insisted that the correct wheels were unavailable.)
The thread I started for those wheels (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123686220)

BTW, black Traklite 2s look very similar to those SSRs but they're teflon coated! They're also forged, about a pound lighter, half-an-inch wider, and can be as much as $140 less. 45mm offset.

[RelliMS3]

i do like those traklites, but i think i would miss the 18"s if i dropped in size. those motegis dont come in any bigger than 17, right?

[mllaneta]

Can't go wrong with SSR. In 15x6 they are insanely light on the mx5 (hehe) in 18x7-8 they are at least lighter than the stockers. + I love the look of the SSRs.

When I start campaining the MS3 in autox I'll probably get the kazeras KZ-V or Kosei K1-TS.. Weight savings per dollar would probably go to the KZ-Vs.. Or maybe I should bite the bullet & go for Enkei RPF1s?? haha.. Things must be going right when the only tough decissions in life are which cool wheel to buy.. lol :p

Ok I got bored and went to tire rack to see what the SSRs would look like..

Images courtesy of Tire Rack..
BLACK finish
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/mllaneta/MS3/black_SSR.jpg

SILVER finish
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/mllaneta/MS3/Silver_SSR.jpg

Mike Llaneta
#32 ES 1990 Red Miata
#231 STS 2000 Silver Celica GTS
#231 T1-DS 2008 Red MS3

[mark404040]

With the right offset, you could probably push 245-255s. Don't quote me on it, but if I could race on a 235 tire with a 6.5" rim (granted, different car), then I think an 8" rim could hold at least some more meat...

That thought might not be good for our car. My buddy has a 245 tire at the front, it scratch fander when turn the steering wheel to left or right end.
so I think 255 is never be good.


BTW, I love those letters, looks really professional,,,haha.

[jalaan1]

like 'em.

i think they would look right.

[fourthmeal]

There are too many variables you haven't mentioned on this one.

What car? What offset? What drop (if any?) What tire profile?



That thought might not be good for our car. My buddy has a 245 tire at the front, it scratch fander when turn the steering wheel to left or right end.
so I think 255 is never be good.


BTW, I love those letters, looks really professional,,,haha.

[Andrewsmc]

go black, i like them

[Sacrilicious]

from what i understand, if you intend to lower the car, it gets risky to run anything over 225s. tire rubbing can be helped with fender rolling, but that's not really an option to be taken lightly. in fact, cobb uses 225/40/18s with their shop ms3 using their stage 2 suspension. this is why i, personally, will just go with 225/40/18 when i go to replace my stock summer tires...=d

[DeadGeneration]

baller

[Sacrilicious]

baller

+1

i forgot to mention: those wheels are HAWT. i definitely like the look...:D

[RelliMS3]

from what i understand, if you intend to lower the car, it gets risky to run anything over 225s. tire rubbing can be helped with fender rolling, but that's not really an option to be taken lightly. in fact, cobb uses 225/40/18s with their shop ms3 using their stage 2 suspension. this is why i, personally, will just go with 225/40/18 when i go to replace my stock summer tires...=d

I'm almost positive i'm not going to drop my car, definitely not before another 15,000 miles, around when the tires will be pretty worn. If its at stock height, what do you think? i know that its not a big difference, but there would be a bit more wheel gap

[Sacrilicious]

I'm almost positive i'm not going to drop my car, definitely not before another 15,000 miles, around when the tires will be pretty worn. If its at stock height, what do you think? i know that its not a big difference, but there would be a bit more wheel gap

from what i understand, 235s won't rub if you have high enough of an offset...if you're using 17" wheels...on 18" wheels, i just don't know...=/ everything past that, i've heard of rubbing from assorted people on these forums and the mazda3 forums...=/

[RelliMS3]

from what i understand, 235s won't rub if you have high enough of an offset...if you're using 17" wheels...on 18" wheels, i just don't know...=/ everything past that, i've heard of rubbing from assorted people on these forums and the mazda3 forums...=/

i'm not sure what you mean about the 17" wheels, but my intentions are an 18" by 7.5" with a 49 offset wheel with 225/45 tires and no drop. just not sure if that'll rub, i'd like 235/40 but supposedly that is too wide for the 7.5" wheel

[Sacrilicious]

i'm not sure what you mean about the 17" wheels, but my intentions are an 18" by 7.5" with a 49 offset wheel with 225/45 tires and no drop. just not sure if that'll rub, i'd like 235/40 but supposedly that is too wide for the 7.5" wheel

oh, 225/45 on 49 offset would be perfectly fine. 235/40/18 should fit on 7.5" wheels, but you would have to ask around to see if it would rub. i, personally, wouldn't risk it just because i like the idea of being given the option of changing springs in the future.

[RelliMS3]

oh, 225/45 on 49 offset would be perfectly fine. 235/40/18 should fit on 7.5" wheels, but you would have to ask around to see if it would rub. i, personally, wouldn't risk it just because i like the idea of being given the option of changing springs in the future.

oh ok, thanks, thats what i wanted to hear. I'm hoping to get these rims soon, thinking of getting the pirelli pzero nero m&s all seasons

[Sacrilicious]

oh ok, thanks, thats what i wanted to hear. I'm hoping to get these rims soon, thinking of getting the pirelli pzero nero m&s all seasons

ya, the pirelli pzero neros are definitely very good quality tires. you should check out the reviews at www.tirerack.com to see some other choices so that you get the best bang for the buck, though. from what i gathered, the goodyear F1 all seasons were going to be the best deal.

[RelliMS3]

ya, the pirelli pzero neros are definitely very good quality tires. you should check out the reviews at www.tirerack.com to see some other choices so that you get the best bang for the buck, though. from what i gathered, the goodyear F1 all seasons were going to be the best deal.

yeah the goodyears were my only other choice after looking at the reviews. the pirellis have less wet traction than the goodyears but a little more dry and more comfort/less noise so thats why i'm leaing towards the pirellis.

[fourthmeal]

Just remember that an all-season tire of any caliber will not perform as well as the stock tires will. So, even though you are going wider, you will experience a slight loss of handling. IMO, this car deserves dedicated sports summer tires and winter tires.

[dcomiskey]

"kind of" expensive?? :D

[RelliMS3]

"kind of" expensive?? :D

well i would say "very" expensive but then i run out of superlatives when describing the price of volks

[turboprotege5]

they are nice rims and should look good on the speed3

[Chibana]

Are you positive they'll fit? Tire Rack originally had those on their list for my 2005 Mazda3, and I got all excited, only to have them disappear from the list later. When I asked them, they told me that they don't clear the brake calipers. Granted, the Mazdaspeed3 has different brakes and OEM tire widths, but I thought I should mention it just to be safe. But hell yeah, if they fit, I'd buy them in a hear beat!

[RelliMS3]

Are you positive they'll fit? Tire Rack originally had those on their list for my 2005 Mazda3, and I got all excited, only to have them disappear from the list later. When I asked them, they told me that they don't clear the brake calipers. Granted, the Mazdaspeed3 has different brakes and OEM tire widths, but I thought I should mention it just to be safe. But hell yeah, if they fit, I'd buy them in a hear beat!

They are currently showing them as fitting, so it looks good.

[RelliMS3]

so i'm probably going to pull the trigger within the next two days. any last suggestions on a different wheel choice that is all black and mostly simple?

[fourthmeal]

just take a peek at www.buywheelstoday.com and www.wheelsnext.com too. I love "the Rack" but they aren't the only option out there.

[dcomiskey]

so i'm probably going to pull the trigger within the next two days. any last suggestions on a different wheel choice that is all black and mostly simple?


I'd go with the OZ Ultraleggaras myself.....(idhitit)

[Vengure]

Tenzo's so far seem to be my favorite style of rims.

[Young Roids]

Not a fan. They don't look THAT great and they cost alot. I pick Enkei rpf1.

[JaxJeff]

So i'm going to be getting some new wheels soon and right now it looks like i'm gonna go with the SSR Type C-RS. I know that they are kind of expensive, but they are exactly what i'm looking for. I'll be getting them in black, which they don't have a picture of, but here is the anthracite version:

http://www.tirerack.com/images/wheels/ssr/swap/ssr_typec_rs_anth_ci3_l.jpg

What do you guys think?

We have similiar taste cause those are one my choices also I also like the OZ ultraleggs too and I think there a little cheaper too If remember correctely. I also agree with the lettering... Its a little much . Thats the one thing I dont like about the ultraleggs too is all the writing stamped into the rim itself ! But still a good choice !! and there perty light also !

[fourthmeal]

IMO if you're going with new wheels, try to fit as wide as you can rubber and wheel wise, provided you don't rub.

That number appears to be 18x8, with a high offset, and a 235/40-18 tire on that. A 235/40-18 is a nearly perfect tire height and size, IF you can stuff it in properly. Its worth it if you can.


With a 7.5", really all you can do is go a little wider to a 225, but you can't get the right height by doing that (a 40 or 45 profile is to short or too tall, respectively.) You can also try stuffing a 235 on a 7.5", but when you do that you still must pay careful attention to the offset.

IMO, we need more high offset (~50mm) 8" wheels for this car. I've only found about 8.

[RelliMS3]

ultraleggeras are nice, but thats the most common wheel for the ms3 i think and also i dont like thin spokes like that. they do look nice though

[jp4130]

7.5 is not wide enough. My Opinion after spending a lot of time measuring what will fit is, 8.5 with a 53 mm offset. I crossed my fingers hoping that they would clear everything. When I installed them they did; I was scared they would hit the strut. They don't the gap between the rim and the strut is only about an 1/8". So with the factory offset 8.5 is just perfect if you are after the widest wheel to support a 235 or 245. The sidewalls need a wide wheel to support them and keep things crisp. also I think it is best to stay as close to factory offset as possible. It messes up suspension geometry if you are not with a few mm.

[SAVAGE70]

I have been looking into new wheels at the beginning of the year. I might just have to copy u on th SSR wheels. I like these:
http://www.buywheelstoday.com/images/?id=4054
and these:
http://www.buywheelstoday.com/images/?id=4055
but they only come in 18x7.5.
I have been using this to check tire fitament:
http://www.bigcustomwheels.com/rt_specs.jsp
and this for wheel weight:
http://wheelweights.net/

[RelliMS3]

it would be great if the ssrs came in 8" but thats not the case and i'm not going to buy new rims unless i get the exact look i want. Unfortunately every wheel manufacturer thinks that chrome lips iz the shit.

[RelliMS3]

alright, so i was doing some research and they might come in 18x8 for our car, but i havent been able to confirm this. is there any chance there are more fitments than whats shown on tirerack?

[Akaveli]

Not bad. :)

[Hirudin]

7.5 is not wide enough. My Opinion after spending a lot of time measuring what will fit is, 8.5 with a 53 mm offset. I crossed my fingers hoping that they would clear everything. When I installed them they did; I was scared they would hit the strut. They don't the gap between the rim and the strut is only about an 1/8". So with the factory offset 8.5 is just perfect if you are after the widest wheel to support a 235 or 245. The sidewalls need a wide wheel to support them and keep things crisp. also I think it is best to stay as close to factory offset as possible. It messes up suspension geometry if you are not with a few mm.
The width of the tire is pretty much going to be greater than the width of the wheel. If the wheel is 1/8" from the strut now a tire on that rim is likely to touch. A 235 tire should be about 9.25 in (http://www.google.com/search?q=235+mm+to+in) wide.

[fourthmeal]

Break it down to me a bit more, because I'm trying to figure out just how wide we can go. I've heard several times a 235/40-18 will fit if the offset is just right. I think it is a 50mm offset or better to work properly.

The advantages of going to this size of tire are major, though. So if it can be done, then DO it, IMO. Swampass runs this size, though he rubs ever so slightly on the rear...I think he has 48mm offset 18x8 O.Z.'s.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

The "Team Cobb" vehicle uses 18x8 48 offset rims with 225/40 tires. The car is lowered to the same amount that most of us will lower our cars. I have to think that these guys know what they are doing. If the extra size from 235s was worth the fitment headaches, they would have used them.
If you go wider than stock, you need to drop the aspect ratio or the speedometer accuracy goes out the window. 225/40 reads slightly high on a car that came with 215/45 tires. Like the speedo reads 60 and you are doing 58 or something like that. Personally, I would rather be going a tiny bit slower than I think instead of a little faster. We all tempt fate with regards to speeding tickets too much anyways. It would suck big time to get a ticket from some cop who is pissed off for working a Sunday when you thought you were at the limit and in fact were a couple mph over because you had 225/45 instead of 225/40.

[fourthmeal]

What really sucks is that because your Speedo is off, your ODO is off too.

Trust me, I know tire sizes (it was my profession to sell wheels and tires for years), but I was alluding to the exact nature of this car.

It seems that with the RX-8 wheels (which have an offset that is slightly more then 50mm), you can fit 235/40-18 tires in this car.

Just because Cobb was unable to do it doesn't mean you can't do it. Maybe they didn't want to use a different wheel then the ones they chose, who knows?! FYI DG Motorsports made their show car with some sort of 8-8.5" wheel and put 245/40-18's on it. How they did it, I'm very curious!

[Hirudin]

I was talking about that one guy's 8.5" rims. I'd say if the RIM is 1/8 from the strut it's pretty likely a TIRE will rub on it.

I'm also using 235 tires (235/45 17s (8" width rims, 45 mm offset)). Here's a pic of my right-rear tire (all the tires look the same). These tires have been on my car for more than a month I think. I personally don't think I'm rubbing much if at all.


Here's the front right (the file is too large for this site so you'll have to click the link to view it...). As I understand it rubbing isn't as much of an issue on the front.
Da Pic (http://www.fantasgreat.com/ms3pics/temp/IMG_4524.JPG)

[jp4130]

I was talking about that one guy's 8.5" rims. I'd say if the RIM is 1/8 from the strut it's pretty likely a TIRE will rub on it.

I'm also using 235 tires (235/45 17s (8" width rims, 45 mm offset)). Here's a pic of my right-rear tire (all the tires look the same). These tires have been on my car for more than a month I think. I personally don't think I'm rubbing much if at all.


Here's the front right (the file is too large for this site so you'll have to click the link to view it...). As I understand it rubbing isn't as much of an issue on the front.
Da Pic (http://www.fantasgreat.com/ms3pics/temp/IMG_4524.JPG)


Here are some pics to clarify things. 18x8.5 53mm offset 235/40/18
I should have fone with 245. I Played it safe with 235; I knew things would be tight. any body manage to fit anything wider than a 8.5 wheel on there speed.

"The width of the tire is pretty much going to be greater than the width of the wheel.
If the wheel is 1/8" from the strut now a tire on that rim is likely to touch. A 235 tire should be about 9.25 in wide"

The pics show how this is not the case:)

[fourthmeal]

Wow that is a tight, TIGHT fit. Kudos on the very tough clearances! I'm curious to see how much rubbing if any is created if the rear suspension compresses fully.

FYI, I think a lot of people are out of touch with what the tire's size really means, and how its measured, as well as how a wheel is measured.

First, a tire's width is measured as configured on a rim width (that is explained in the specifications of the tire itself)

Second, the wheel is measured from the inside bead of the wheel (where the tire fits in), so the outside bead visible from those pictures is probably another 1/4" or so out from the 8.5" rim per side.


All that said, as you can see our clearances are CLOSE, and we must be careful with our offsets and widths. Could you imagine the trouble you'd be in if you used wheel weights on that inside lip? WOW!

[RelliMS3]

well here is a big disappointment. they don't sell them in black even though they say they do on their website. i need to decide what to do now. Maybe an sts and cai, or maybe powdercoating. OR all three, probably still cheaper than new wheels and tires.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

What really sucks is that because your Speedo is off, your ODO is off too.

Which is another reason to err the way I said: your mileage will read low! :)



Just because Cobb was unable to do it doesn't mean you can't do it. Maybe they didn't want to use a different wheel then the ones they chose, who knows?! FYI DG Motorsports made their show car with some sort of 8-8.5" wheel and put 245/40-18's on it. How they did it, I'm very curious!

My point of Cobb's setup wasn't that they couldn't do it but that they didn't bother. What they did wheel/tire wise was to get lighter rims. They increased the rim width about 12mm, and the tire 10mm. This was good enough for their road racing track car. If they figured the gains from going even wider were so negligible as to not bother, it is certainly food for thought.
One other thing to consider is that Mazdas (especially the front drive varieties) have a reputation for responding very well to reducing wheel/tire weight. There must come a point where the weight gain from the increased sizes causes losses in performance and suspension response that more than negate any slight skidpad improvement.

[Hirudin]

Here are some pics to clarify things. 18x8.5 53mm offset 235/40/18
I should have fone with 245. I Played it safe with 235; I knew things would be tight. any body manage to fit anything wider than a 8.5 wheel on there speed.

"The width of the tire is pretty much going to be greater than the width of the wheel.
If the wheel is 1/8" from the strut now a tire on that rim is likely to touch. A 235 tire should be about 9.25 in wide"

The pics show how this is not the case:)
Good lord that's close! Those wheels look awesome too by the way. (2thumbs)

I stand corrected about the width of the tire compared to the rim. I'm glad I used the modifier "pretty much", there will always be exceptions.

Man... looking at those wheels again... I'm very jealous!

[fourthmeal]

Which is another reason to err the way I said: your mileage will read low! :)

Sorry but your mileage will read high. The car will depreciate ever so slightly faster.

[fourthmeal]

Agreed completely on the lightweight wheel issue, and agreed on the fact that a heavier wheel negating any width advantage. BUT, if you can get wide and get light (like those beautiful Wedsport wheels), then you get the best of both worlds.

We need this type of solution, especially when adding power and increasing the handling potential of this car. It has a long way to go with sticky, wide wheel and tire assemblies.

[jp4130]

.[/QUOTE]I need to decide what to do now. Maybe an sts and cai, or maybe powdercoating. OR all three, probably still cheaper than new wheels and tires.[/QUOTE]

Tires are the biggest bang for buck change to any car. Problem is that our rims are not wide enough to fit the most benificial sizes. if they were 8 from the factory 235 sticky tires would do the trick and leave money left over for the other mods. keep looking for just the right wheels.;) FYI: when using tire rack i found that if you look under other cars (eg.rx 8) you may be able to find wheels that will fit your speed but are not listed for it. Just make sure offset and bolt pattern are proper. They air on the side of caution on widths. The last thing they want are people coming to them with rubbing issues or other problems. my wheels were not listed for the speed, I found them under the rx8 listing.



Wow that is a tight, TIGHT fit. Kudos on the very tough clearances! I'm curious to see how much rubbing if any is created if the rear suspension compresses fully.
All that said, as you can see our clearances are CLOSE, and we must be careful with our offsets and widths. Could you imagine the trouble you'd be in if you used wheel weights on that inside lip? WOW!

Thanks man, stock there is no rubbing while driving in a spirited manner.(drive2)
When i put my coilovers on in the spring I will find out if a fender roll is in order. It looks like it will be close, the front should be fine. (yes)another good reason to use stick on weights.


.[/QUOTE]My point of Cobb's setup wasn't that they couldn't do it but that they didn't bother. What they did wheel/tire wise was to get lighter rims. They increased the rim width about 12mm, and the tire 10mm. This was good enough for their road racing track car. If they figured the gains from going even wider were so negligible as to not bother, it is certainly food for thought.
One other thing to consider is that Mazdas (especially the front drive varieties) have a reputation for responding very well to reducing wheel/tire weight. There must come a point where the weight gain from the increased sizes causes losses in performance and suspension response that more than negate any slight skidpad improvement.[/QUOTE]

Cobb tuning obviously knows there stuff. They think out there products and cars. They pay attention to details a lot of other companys overlook. However they developed thier test mule to run their suspension kit. That wheel size and there kit would be an excelent combination. I think with coilovers and a much higher spring rate a wider wheel has benifits. heck i would of gone 9 if it would fit.

Wheel weight is a huge factor, believe me that had a huge influence on my choice. The wheels and tires I chose are still lighter than the stock setup even at 8.5. I beleive its is the rwd miata that has this tendancy. It is very sensitive to unsprung wieght. It is also much lighter and therefore need less rubber brakes etc.



Good lord that's close! Those wheels look awesome too by the way. (2thumbs)

I stand corrected about the width of the tire compared to the rim. I'm glad I used the modifier "pretty much", there will always be exceptions.

Man... looking at those wheels again... I'm very jealous!

Thanks dude. just wait till the ride height is right. (nana)(2thumbs)

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Sorry but your mileage will read high. The car will depreciate ever so slightly faster.

You're right. Lost my head for a second there and didn't think about it long enough.

My major issue with the wide but light rims is that not all of us are made of money. I drive this car because it was a bargain price (IMO) for the performance you get. If I could afford a couple grand for rims I wouldn't be driving this car. It is a blast to drive, but let's face it, the pure front wheel drive setup is limiting on how much performance we can ultimately expect to get. All wheel or rear wheel both have more potential.

Has anybody seen a lightweight 18x8 with 48 or so offset in a simple, clean black design that isn't absurdly expensive? I plan on being conservative when/if I upgrade the rims and go with something like the Cobb setup. I think increasing the rim width in relation to the tire width will only improve handling response even more, so I would like to accomplish that if possible.

EDIT: Fourthmeal, that is an interesting calculator. It tells you if the rim you are selecting is too wide for the tire, but not if it is too narrow. After using it, I have changed my mind. I am now thinking in terms of 18x8.5 with 225/40. This will provide a nice wide platform for mounting the tire which should yield very responsive, firm handling.

[Hirudin]

Depends on what you consider absurd. I paid ~$1000 for my 4 17x8 rims. They're forged, 1 piece, all matte black, 15 lbs each. (Motegi Traklites)

[RelliMS3]

You're right. Lost my head for a second there and didn't think about it long enough.

My major issue with the wide but light rims is that not all of us are made of money. I drive this car because it was a bargain price (IMO) for the performance you get. If I could afford a couple grand for rims I wouldn't be driving this car. It is a blast to drive, but let's face it, the pure front wheel drive setup is limiting on how much performance we can ultimately expect to get. All wheel or rear wheel both have more potential.

Has anybody seen a lightweight 18x8 with 48 or so offset in a simple, clean black design that isn't absurdly expensive? I plan on being conservative when/if I upgrade the rims and go with something like the Cobb setup. I think increasing the rim width in relation to the tire width will only improve handling response even more, so I would like to accomplish that if possible.

EDIT: Fourthmeal, that is an interesting calculator. It tells you if the rim you are selecting is too wide for the tire, but not if it is too narrow. After using it, I have changed my mind. I am now thinking in terms of 18x8.5 with 225/40. This will provide a nice wide platform for mounting the tire which should yield very responsive, firm handling.

Good luck with your search for 18x8 with a simple clean design and not very expensive. There are only like 5 options for all black rims, nothing that looks that great.

[jp4130]

You're right. Lost my head for a second there and didn't think about it long enough.

My major issue with the wide but light rims is that not all of us are made of money. I drive this car because it was a bargain price (IMO) for the performance you get. If I could afford a couple grand for rims I wouldn't be driving this car. It is a blast to drive, but let's face it, the pure front wheel drive setup is limiting on how much performance we can ultimately expect to get. All wheel or rear wheel both have more potential.

Has anybody seen a lightweight 18x8 with 48 or so offset in a simple, clean black design that isn't absurdly expensive? I plan on being conservative when/if I upgrade the rims and go with something like the Cobb setup. I think increasing the rim width in relation to the tire width will only improve handling response even more, so I would like to accomplish that if possible.

EDIT: Fourthmeal, that is an interesting calculator. It tells you if the rim you are selecting is too wide for the tire, but not if it is too narrow. After using it, I have changed my mind. I am now thinking in terms of 18x8.5 with 225/40. This will provide a nice wide platform for mounting the tire which should yield very responsive, firm handling.


(iagree) was it the just calculator that convinced you in regards to 8.5.;)

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

It appears that the real clearance problems are not the rims, but the tires. With the correct offset, an 8.5 inch rim should clear nicely. Since I'm not thinking in terms of going that much wider on the tires themselves, I doubt they will be an issue. Until I saw that calculator, I didn't realize that 8.5 was considered a recommended rim width for a 225 tire (assuming the calculator is correct). When I do the math, an 8.5 inch rim comes out to 216 mm, which I hope would provide a very crisp, responsive wheel/tire combo with a 225 mm tire.

Fourthmeal, is there any rule of thumb for optimum rim/tire width ratio?
The factory 7.5/215 works out to 88% rim/tire ratio, 8.5/225 would be 96%. Is that too much rim? 8.0/225 comes out to 90%. I would expect that the tire design would come into play on this. Something with stiff, straight sidewalls would probably be better off with a wider rim whereas a more traditional radial with the rounded sides might be better off on a slightly smaller rim. At least that seems reasonable to me, but I could be out to lunch.

[fourthmeal]

When it comes to optimum wheel width to tire cross section width, really the tire manufacturer's specs will tell you what is allowed and what is recommended. For performance-sake, I've always said that it is better for the wheel to be wider then the tire then the other way around...within the reasonable limits of both the tire, the wheel, and the car itself. Meaning, if you put a 235/40-18 tire on a 8" rim, that's all well and good, but an 8.5" rim would be slightly better if the wheel didn't weigh more. Why? Because the tire is shaped better for handling with a slightly wider wheel. Its a case of geometry, really. A good way to prove this is to look at Porsche or other high-end cars and their stock tire size compared with their wheel size.

At any rate, the most important thing is to pick a tire size that fits the car, the wheel, and the situation you intend to put the car in. For our car, it comes with 214/45-18's stock in MS3 form, and fits our 18x7 wheels. If you want to go wider, you also will end up taller unless you drop your sidewall profile down to 40, so that makes going to a 225/40 or 225/45 incorrect (though it still works, it is indeed going to throw off your speedometer.) But a 235/40 OR a 245-40 are much, much closer to stock height and it will work far better. The only problem then is you need a wider wheel then the stock 7"! So, to accommodate this, the search begins for 18x8 or even wider wheels, but our offset requirements are very specific at these sizes. As jp4130 proved, an 8.5" wheel is possible if you select the right offset CAREFULLY. Now with a wheel that wide (or down to 8"), you can easily run a 235/40-18 or possibly maybe a 245/40-18. Your next enemy is the fender edges, because you are now pushing the limit of the available space in the fender well. A 235/40-18 is about the limit it seems, but I suppose you could roll the rear fender lip a bit and get a 245/40-18 in there relatively easily.

Once again, jp great job. That took balls to try, and I commend you for it. The tolerances you've shown are amazingly tight, yet it works. Its going to be exciting to find out if you can 245/40-18's on that wheel or if that is just too much. It depends on the tire, too! I've noticed each brand of tire has a slightly different shape to its tread style, and the smallest of changes here could make or break it for you. IMO, the 235/40-18 gives you the best of all worlds, plus you stuck WEDSPORT wheels on your ride and that's worth points alone.



Fourthmeal, is there any rule of thumb for optimum rim/tire width ratio?
The factory 7.5/215 works out to 88% rim/tire ratio, 8.5/225 would be 96%. Is that too much rim? 8.0/225 comes out to 90%. I would expect that the tire design would come into play on this. Something with stiff, straight sidewalls would probably be better off with a wider rim whereas a more traditional radial with the rounded sides might be better off on a slightly smaller rim. At least that seems reasonable to me, but I could be out to lunch.

[Hirudin]

Check out tirerack.com, they have specs for all the tires they sell (or most of them at least).
Here's the specs for the stock tires on the MS3s (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Bridgestone&model=Potenza+RE050A&partnum=145YR8RE050AXL&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&place=1).
The columns: Meas. Rim Width and Rim Width Range tell you what size wheels the tires will work with.

From what I've seen (from experts like fourthmeal) it's probably not a good idea to push the wheel/tire combo to the limits of the manufacturers' specs.
So, even though the stock 215/45 18s could probably be forced onto a 6.5" rim it's not wise.

[fourthmeal]

Thanks for the compliment of being an expert, but I'm just applying knowledge gained from doing this type of stuff for a while now. I wouldn't say I'm an expert since I'm no longer in the business...I'm just happy to help if I can because others have helped me and I know it comes back to me through Karma or whatnot.

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Fourthmeal, if you did this for a living, you are now our official expert. Bask in the glory.
The stock rims are 7 inch? I don't know why the hell I thought they were 7.5.
It sounds like you agree with my theory that the widest recommended rim for the tire in question is the way to go.
Maybe I'll just stick with the factory tires on a wider rim and avoid the whole speedo calibration issue... naaaahhhh!

[fourthmeal]

Yes. I was a tire/wheel specialist at NTB, Sears, and briefly at my own shop (that was a FAIL), so maybe 4-5 years of down and dirty install work and planning for people and their custom setups. One advantage I had was we could order truly custom wheels if needed, ones that had infinite offset choices and that was a plus when working on some rare breeds.

I sold:

American Racing
Prime
Centerline
TSW
Enkei
Pretty much anything available at TireRack
BBS
Motegi
a few other crazy brands like those out of Keystone catalogs and such.

My best wheel install experience:
An Integra Type R (original!) with 17x8 BBS RK wheels, with some nice wide rubber that fit like a glove.

My worst wheel install experience:
A Suburban on 22" wheels back when they weren't really super-popular, and the tires weren't really perfected. That bitch was impossible!

[fourthmeal]

I just wanted to point out that if you really wanted a clean, inexpensive, and lightweight 18x8 wheel, then consider the RX-8 wheels this guy is selling. I wish I had some cash because this is exactly the right deal.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123691534

Fits like a GLOVE on our car.

[jp4130]

When it comes to optimum wheel width to tire cross section width, really the tire manufacturer's specs will tell you what is allowed and what is recommended. For performance-sake, I've always said that it is better for the wheel to be wider then the tire then the other way around...within the reasonable limits of both the tire, the wheel, and the car itself. Meaning, if you put a 235/40-18 tire on a 8" rim, that's all well and good, but an 8.5" rim would be slightly better if the wheel didn't weigh more. Why? Because the tire is shaped better for handling with a slightly wider wheel. Its a case of geometry, really. A good way to prove this is to look at Porsche or other high-end cars and their stock tire size compared with their wheel size.

At any rate, the most important thing is to pick a tire size that fits the car, the wheel, and the situation you intend to put the car in. For our car, it comes with 214/45-18's stock in MS3 form, and fits our 18x7 wheels. If you want to go wider, you also will end up taller unless you drop your sidewall profile down to 40, so that makes going to a 225/40 or 225/45 incorrect (though it still works, it is indeed going to throw off your speedometer.) But a 235/40 OR a 245-40 are much, much closer to stock height and it will work far better. The only problem then is you need a wider wheel then the stock 7"! So, to accommodate this, the search begins for 18x8 or even wider wheels, but our offset requirements are very specific at these sizes. As jp4130 proved, an 8.5" wheel is possible if you select the right offset CAREFULLY. Now with a wheel that wide (or down to 8"), you can easily run a 235/40-18 or possibly maybe a 245/40-18. Your next enemy is the fender edges, because you are now pushing the limit of the available space in the fender well. A 235/40-18 is about the limit it seems, but I suppose you could roll the rear fender lip a bit and get a 245/40-18 in there relatively easily.

Once again, jp great job. That took balls to try, and I commend you for it. The tolerances you've shown are amazingly tight, yet it works. Its going to be exciting to find out if you can 245/40-18's on that wheel or if that is just too much. It depends on the tire, too! I've noticed each brand of tire has a slightly different shape to its tread style, and the smallest of changes here could make or break it for you. IMO, the 235/40-18 gives you the best of all worlds, plus you stuck WEDSPORT wheels on your ride and that's worth points alone.

Thanks dude. Ya I should have really pushed my luck with 245s; Next set for sure. I was pretty nervous about going bigger than 235 with this offset.
I totally agree with you about the brand of tire having huge effect. 235 from one brand being just right, does not garentee that all 235s will be right. Thats ok though I plan on sticking with bs potenza re01rs. Judging by my 235s 245s of this tire should still have a nice crisp sidewall wheel relationship.

Those rx8 wheels look better on the speed3 than they do on the rx8.(headbang)

Oh ya, it's cool that at least one person agrees with my threorys. (drive2)

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I just wanted to point out that if you really wanted a clean, inexpensive, and lightweight 18x8 wheel, then consider the RX-8 wheels this guy is selling. I wish I had some cash because this is exactly the right deal.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123691534

Fits like a GLOVE on our car.

Does anybody know what an RX8 wheel weighs?

[fourthmeal]

Very likely you'll find it by asking the RX8 guys, but if I recall it is pretty light. Most importantly, it is wide enough to fit a 235/40-18 no problem,...maybe a 245/40-18 if you're lucky (or if you don't mind rolling the rear fender!)


edit : Found on wheelweights.net that they weigh 22lbs. Or, about as much as ours do stock. Still, being an inch wider, you've gotta love it.