I got smoked today!

[Mocoso]

So just came back from a full day's run at the Streets of Willow (Willow Springs Raceway) - did NOT expect to see another MS3 there but turns out a few Mazda employees showed up with a MS3 (intake/exhaust/coil overs, stickies), a Protege and a Miata... nice bunch of people but they totally left me eating rubber.... amazing what stickies and coilovers can do as far as traction...

And NO we cant keep up with Subi's and Evos - not that I didnt try

Overall Im pleased with how the MS3 handled itself... albeit the braking isnt as forgiving as I expected (it gets out of balance quickly if you brake late and are already in the turn) - I am NOT pleased how the driver performed... It took me all day to find the right lines across all the turns... did manage to shave 6 seconds off my average lap time

There is def. some brake fade albeit it was probably due more to my shitty driving and crappy lines than the demands of the track...the tires/brake pads held up rather nicely...

Now that Ive had a chance to drive the MS3 to its handling limits I can honestly say that while unforgiving if you brake at the wrong time it is very predictable on the handling characteristics.... no surprises yet it is a car that while let you know rather bluntly if your line sucks...

Had an Rx-7 with a LS1 engine conversion show up towards the end.. didnt run the track but it was amazing to see how well an LS1 engine actually fits in an Rx-7

Ill attached pics (not of my car but the other MS3 and the protege.. note the fat sticky tires)... video came out crappy and isnt really worth posting... the few laps that were filmed are good examples of what not to do: brake too late and enter turn too hot, brake too early and end up bleeding all your speed before hitting the apex, brake while car isnt straight (MS3 doesnt like this... car gets out of balance immediately) -Mis-shift from 2nd to 5th instead of 3rd....Ah well - we learn from our mistakes...

One last leason learned: Damn Turbo's SUCK fuel when running at high rpms... MPG was down to 8 MPG !!!

[AGM130]

Sounds like you had fun, which is what really matters, and you learned alot about the car.

Can't Wait to get my MS3!

[DE31]

did the rx7 have black wheels?

[jbiird317]

Gotta love your brutal honesty, most people only wanna talk about wins or great experiences in the car, its good to hear a real honest review. That said, sounds like a fun day anyway!

[CTGrey02]

Gotta love your brutal honesty, most people only wanna talk about wins or great experiences in the car, its good to hear a real honest review. That said, sounds like a fun day anyway!

Most people only want to talk about illegal racing. Must have felt weird going from a torquey RWD coupe to running a FWD car like that on the track.

[Mocoso]

Yes it was fun from start to finish... got a couple of rides with expert driver in a subi and I almost tore the "oh shit" handles off the car :D -- I strongly recommed that ALL of you at least ONCE do a track event and if you do dont go to win but just learn your cars limits and your limits... if you arent having fun at the track your there for the wrong reasons...


Most people only want to talk about illegal racing. Must have felt weird going from a torquey RWD coupe to running a FWD car like that on the track.

It did feel weird and I think thats part of the reason it took me all day to start getting smooth and tracking the line.. basically had to learn how to really drive a FWD car - there is no rotating car thru power on a FWD :D (but the MS3 likes rotating its ass thru lift!)


did the rx7 have black wheels?

This particular RX7 had Silver wheels


Oh and I almost forgot to mention: I asked the Mazda crew if the MS3 would continue past its 2 year run and if the MS6 would come back - they said the MS6 "could" come back once the 6 is redesigned and they all opined that given how well the MS3 is selling that it may STAY past a 2 year run - Mind you none of them were in the marketing or MS3 development teams so its just their opinion but at least we got some insight as to what some Mazda employees guess is

[ZooMIN3]

Oh and I almost forgot to mention: I asked the Mazda crew if the MS3 would continue past its 2 year run and if the MS6 would come back - they said the MS6 "could" come back once the 6 is redesigned and they all opined that given how well the MS3 is selling that it may STAY past a 2 year run - Mind you none of them were in the marketing or MS3 development teams so its just their opinion but at least we got some insight as to what some Mazda employees guess is

Glad you had a great time up there!! I'd like to give it a go one time...but it'll have to wait... (dunno)

Did you remember or think about asking for the AWD version of the Speed3 to debut here in the upcoming year? lol Again, wishful thinking...
That'd be sa-weet... I trade my speed3 and a left kidney for it..... my right one stays, I'm right handed so my right kidney wouldn't appreciate the fact I let it go like that... lol

-J

[crystalmeth3]

i would love to know what kind of intake, exhaust and coilovers the mazda crew were running on their cars. They would know better than anyone what to do to this car to reach all of its potential. If its all mazdaspeed stuff, then that says alot about not having to worry about the lean condition with the intake. I wonder what they would do as far as making power near redline stronger... boost controller, or wastegate, or tune. That insight would be priceless.

[gone_fishin]

Great shots Mocoso, looks like you had quite a lot of fun.

[Mocoso]

....
Did you remember or think about asking for the AWD version of the Speed3 to debut here in the upcoming year? lol Again, wishful thinking...
....-J

Actually it didnt occur to me to ask but I did ask when they were going to drop the MS3 engine into the RX8 :D-


i would love to know what kind of intake, exhaust and coilovers the mazda crew were running on their cars.....
It was all Mazdaspeed.... Im def. going to do the intake but I blew my budget on track day so its gonna have to wait..


Great shots Mocoso, looks like you had quite a lot of fun.
Thanks.. yea it was fun .. had some comedic moments too.. the event coordinator made sure I was YET AGAIN embarrased in public: last time at the big track I had a Cadillac STS running with a spare donut run faster laps than me on the vette... this time it was a big ass Nissan Armada that actually did better lap times than me... amazing what a good driver can do - was funny as hell to see this big truck barrel through the course...

[FireEMT-B]

i wonder whats near my area as far as track racing i know of moroso but not much else, and my local dyno just moved to who knows where, but im perfectly happy with my 3 sport (non-speed) the ms3's are all over my area, quite a popular car in south florida, how ever ive seen some stupid stunts done in them while driving on 441, legal road and track racing just makes more sence, considering what ive seen first hand what happens with car vs tree or vs anything, thats why i want to find something close to me, i just got my car broken in, and im ready to rock on a track

[gone_fishin]

amazing what a good driver can do - was funny as hell to see this big truck barrel through the course...

I believe they call it the "driver mod" (lol2)

[jalaan1]

sounds like fun.

great time.

[chaos4]

I envy you guys in the warmer climes that can run 10 months (or more) of the year!. I just finished up my year - 8 events=16 track days - last week end at Lime Rock Park, CT. It was cooooold!! Snow held things up a bit on Friday. Saturday morning warm ups had the best weather, almost got the Hoosier's warm!
I learned over this year (started at Watkins Gen in April) a lot about the MS3. It isn't that far behind the Evos and Rex's. I beat some and some beat me over the year. I ran stock suspension (Hotchkis rear bar last two events), but race rubber and the MS3 will have Porsche Cayman, S2000, race prepped Miatas, na 911'S, Saabs, some well modded, etc drivers falling all over them selves to find out what the Grocery Getter (so nicknamed by a Porsche driver) has in it. It is a great car out of the showroom. Want to see how it stacks up against well driven cars? Here is the link to the year's time trials from my club. Note my lap times (#401 in ST2) compared to the other cars at Mosport and NHIS in Aug and Oct. Those were my high points, also did rather poorly at Watkins Glen and Mont Tremblant. I needed a 4th at Lime Rock to nail down the year end points championship in ST2....I back pedaled to 4th on the cold track and the car lives to run another year.
What a fun car!!
http://www.comscc.org/results/index.htm

[Texaco]

I envy you guys in the warmer climes that can run 10 months (or more) of the year!. I just finished up my year - 8 events=16 track days - last week end at Lime Rock Park, CT. It was cooooold!! Snow held things up a bit on Friday. Saturday morning warm ups had the best weather, almost got the Hoosier's warm!
I learned over this year (started at Watkins Gen in April) a lot about the MS3. It isn't that far behind the Evos and Rex's. I beat some and some beat me over the year. I ran stock suspension (Hotchkis rear bar last two events), but race rubber and the MS3 will have Porsche Cayman, S2000, race prepped Miatas, na 911'S, Saabs, some well modded, etc drivers falling all over them selves to find out what the Grocery Getter (so nicknamed by a Porsche driver) has in it. It is a great car out of the showroom. Want to see how it stacks up against well driven cars? Here is the link to the year's time trials from my club. Note my lap times (#401 in ST2) compared to the other cars at Mosport and NHIS in Aug and Oct. Those were my high points, also did rather poorly at Watkins Glen and Mont Tremblant. I needed a 4th at Lime Rock to nail down the year end points championship in ST2....I back pedaled to 4th on the cold track and the car lives to run another year.
What a fun car!!
http://www.comscc.org/results/index.htm

401 Sumner Webster Mazda Speed3 11 11 13 5 7 9 9 7 72 Class Champion 75.50

WTG!!(yippy)

[Mocoso]

401 Sumner Webster Mazda Speed3 11 11 13 5 7 9 9 7 72 Class Champion 75.50

WTG!!(yippy)

Ill second that... and he is envying US? hehe... just proves the driver has more to do with it than the car for most of us.... Chaos how many track days do you have under your belt??? Im a total newb ( 3 days under the belt - 2 in the beast and 1 in the Zoom Zoom) so Im wondering how many more Ill need to even start considering "really" getting on myself for sucking...

[Donas64]

Sounds like you had a blast! I gotta get to VIR sometime if they are ever having track days there. I'm only like 45 mins away!

[AeroSquid]

And NO we cant keep up with Subi's and Evos - not that I didnt try


Speak for yourself.

[ccann26]

I haven't had any problems with that......

[racekar]

ill have to second the driver is the #1 factor.
i came from a honda/acura background and passed up my fair share of sub and evo.. i also owned a 06 wrx.

also have seen plenty of instructors and honda challenge drivers in STOCK 100 hp DX pass up 300 HP rx-7 and wrx becuase they couldnt drive.

glad you had fun, it get better and better once you get used to driving becuase the braking and shifting becomes automatic on the hpde courses especially if you go to the same track over and over.

[Aaron2112]

Wow sounds like a great day

to FireEMT....In Fl we have Sebring...its a great track to try out your car.

[racekar]

instead of willow spring which is a fast track and has some danger areas, i woudl recommend buttonw willow in bakersfield and streets of willow is ok..

buttonw willow is my favorite lots of run off space and big track with everything.

[aaronc7]

Wow sounds like a great day

to FireEMT....In Fl we have Sebring...its a great track to try out your car.

how much is it? what's the best/cheapest way to run your car there?

[///M Compact]

I hope to take my MS3 to several BMW CCA drivers schools next year. I only made it to one school this year(Motorsport Ranch Oktoberfest 2007), but I had a lot of fun during the instructor sessions...

http://www.carspace.com/roadburner/Albums/B7/B76.jpg

http://www.carspace.com/roadburner/Albums/B7/B711.jpg

[Mocoso]

instead of willow spring which is a fast track and has some danger areas, i woudl recommend buttonw willow in bakersfield and streets of willow is ok..

buttonw willow is my favorite lots of run off space and big track with everything.

Ya this was the streets of willow... I did Willow Springs big track twice in the C6 and that was fun but turn 9 is a mother...they recently remodeled and there is very little runoff on turn 8/9 - not turns you want to fubar or youll find yourself against a wall and/or barriers at 90 mph... weird thing is I didnt struggle with the big track but I had a bitch of a time getting the lines right in the streets...

So I uploaded some of the video - if anything for comedic value.. - dont laugh too hard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B50ayjYTbdk

And if ya have run streets of willow you will realize why I said MS3 (with equally talented drivers) wont keep up with STI's - that track makes awd shine....

One final note: I learned the hard way that the trip computer will tell you 0 Miles remaining when the yellow light goes on.... fuel consumption caught me off guard... yellow light went on in middle of my run... looked at trip computer and it said 0 Miles left... nothing like that to cause sheer panic as to the possible embarrasment of running out of gas (and worse runnign it lean) - Funny as hell to make your cool down lap be the path from racetrack thru service road to gas pumps.... had a lot of puzzled looks as to why I exited track and made a beehive away from pits without stopping and an equal number of knowing looks...

[i12drivemyMP5]

Great track stories guys.

[Aaron2112]

Im not sure what the price for Sebring, I've never driven there but I have a friend who autoxs his SS out there its not always open though so you have to check, i think they have a website if i can find it i will post.

[aaronc7]

i found website but really no good info.

[x'ed]

Ya this was the streets of willow... I did Willow Springs big track twice in the C6 and that was fun but turn 9 is a mother...they recently remodeled and there is very little runoff on turn 8/9 - not turns you want to fubar or youll find yourself against a wall and/or barriers at 90 mph... weird thing is I didnt struggle with the big track but I had a bitch of a time getting the lines right in the streets...

So I uploaded some of the video - if anything for comedic value.. - dont laugh too hard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B50ayjYTbdk

And if ya have run streets of willow you will realize why I said MS3 (with equally talented drivers) wont keep up with STI's - that track makes awd shine....

One final note: I learned the hard way that the trip computer will tell you 0 Miles remaining when the yellow light goes on.... fuel consumption caught me off guard... yellow light went on in middle of my run... looked at trip computer and it said 0 Miles left... nothing like that to cause sheer panic as to the possible embarrasment of running out of gas (and worse runnign it lean) - Funny as hell to make your cool down lap be the path from racetrack thru service road to gas pumps.... had a lot of puzzled looks as to why I exited track and made a beehive away from pits without stopping and an equal number of knowing looks...


Not really a fair comparison, a 33k dollar car that comes with practically race ready rubber. Put some stickier tires on the ms3 and I think it would be a pretty close race with an sti, probably get smoke by an evo though, but that is a cheater car, computer does everything, driver has to do very little.

[Aaron2112]

I will talk to my friend about it and see what he does. Hes been out there like 3 times with his stg3 SS and now hes gotten good at the track so hes running high in his class(they group them up apparently)


Evos, and STis are overrated!!! lol ive worked on them both, gotta say the STi is set up better.

[///M Compact]

Mocoso,
Thanks for the information on your MS3's track performance. I did have a question; how much does your car rotate on a dropped or trailing throttle? I've been using the late apex slow-in, fast-out technique, but I've also found that I can tighten my line quite a bit with trailing throttle. I'm used to doing that with RWD cars, but I've been surprised at how easily I can get my MS3 to transition to oversteer.

[Mocoso]

The rear end on the MS3 will rotate quite nicely on a dropped or trailing throttle... nothing close to a snap oversteer situation though and easily controlled through throttle - you can pretty much stop the rotation with short throttle push.... I have to admit it is one fun thing to do albeit it wasnt helping me with my track times...

Btw on my early runs I was doing the early apex- fast in, slow out technique thinking that is what front wheel drive cars call out for.. boy was I wrong... what Im not sure of is which is supposed to delay the entry into the apex longer (rwd) or (fwd)... I still think the fwd needs to cut for the apex sooner given the tendency to understeer but I think I was waaaayyy too early and hot.

[racekar]

yeah the sti comes with re70 way better tire than the ms3 and im sure those guys werer running at least that or R compound.

streets of willow is not about power anyways the smaller cars like honda/civics miatas do well at that track against evo/sti. once you get better tires youll see a bigger difference.

get better brake pads. you could brake a lot later and get faster tiems if you get better brake pads. at least hawk blue for the track.

[x'ed]

yeah the sti comes with re70 way better tire than the ms3 and im sure those guys werer running at least that or R compound.

streets of willow is not about power anyways the smaller cars like honda/civics miatas do well at that track against evo/sti. once you get better tires youll see a bigger difference.

get better brake pads. you could brake a lot later and get faster tiems if you get better brake pads. at least hawk blue for the track.

word. tires and driving sounds like what the op needs to keep up with sti's. evos are significantly faster around a track than sti's, sti's are great fast cars, but shouldn't be slaughtering you on the track if you are running stickier tires.