Cut the bumper support to expose my FMIC more.. [Archive]

PerformanceRacing

11-21-2007, 12:59 AM

Alright, so I spent about 3 hours total, not too bad I guess, to better show off the FMIC and of course create much better airflow, about 50% more to the intercooler.

Sorry, but all the pics I took today were from my cell phone, the gf has the digital camera for the week.

Attached at the bottom are pics from before...

Here is what I got done today, the side view pics are to show what a bitch our bumper support bar really is. It is somewhat a double beam... and I will be cutting the small portions of the bar that can still be seen with the bumper cover on, OR fabricating my own front grille to cover the top half of the bar and the sides. See pics, you will know what I mean.
I painted the bar gloss black so it would look less obvious, and once I get my Autoexe Lip, It should look a lot better :)

http://www.pracing.com/images/ebay/PIC-0113.jpg
http://www.pracing.com/images/ebay/PIC-0116.jpg
http://www.pracing.com/images/ebay/PIC-0120.jpg
http://www.pracing.com/images/ebay/PIC-0117.jpg
http://www.pracing.com/images/ebay/PIC-0119.jpg
http://www.pracing.com/images/ebay/PIC-0121.jpg
http://www.pracing.com/images/ebay/PIC-0122.jpg

The third from last pic shows the side view of the bumper support.
Let me know what you all think.

Killer

11-21-2007, 07:17 AM

You violated the structural integrity of the vehicle. Pray that you dont get in a wreck. Also, the FMIC is not straight, looks like a hack job to me.

Sorry, you asked.

spd3king

11-21-2007, 11:41 AM

wreck would be bad, but its a good idea i suppose?

the intercooler is definately crooked. get it straightened out and get the black thing out from in front of it - then you'd be set?

crashkelly

11-21-2007, 11:46 AM

You violated the structural integrity of the vehicle. Pray that you dont get in a wreck. Also, the FMIC is not straight, looks like a hack job to me.

Sorry, you asked.

very much agreed...looks very hacky because the intercooler is not straight...and you really compromised your front end...you cut out a lot of that metal, bad move just to see a little more bling.

PerformanceRacing

11-21-2007, 12:05 PM

I obviously know it is a risky move, as I stated in my first post.. #1 reason was to expose more of the intercooler, and increase airflow. It is a huge FMIC, and only about half was exposed.

The intercooler is straight, in the pics, I didn't install the mounts I have fabricated under the intercooler, I'll take pics later, need some daytime pics. Looks really weird without a grille. For now,I may just throw the factory grille back on.

crashkelly

11-21-2007, 12:07 PM

even if it is straight it looks like there are things hanging in front of it...I would definately put the grill back.

PerformanceRacing

11-21-2007, 12:23 PM

Yeah, as I said, it isn't really complete. I need to fab a grille or cut the remaining pieces of the bumper support shown in the top corners of the bumper opening. There is about an inch and a half at the top of the opening which shows part of the bumper bar as well. I am throwing the stock grille back on, looks hideious in the daytime lol

Powerslave

11-21-2007, 12:43 PM

the car may feel viloated..lol but it looks cool the way you can see more of the intercooler

Maxx Mazda

11-21-2007, 01:21 PM

Ya I put my factory grill back in front of my front mount, you should do the same.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=108102

DuBy

11-21-2007, 02:43 PM

Revenant

11-21-2007, 02:47 PM

You violated the structural integrity of the vehicle. Pray that you dont get in a wreck. Also, the FMIC is not straight, looks like a hack job to me.

Sorry, you asked.

Gonna have to agree with ^ this man

chriscecc914

11-21-2007, 04:04 PM

i think it looks awesome just needs to be cleaned up and straigtened out a bit. I love the big front mount look and cutting the bumper support will not ruin the structural integrity it will just make a crash a lot less safe. I had no bumper support on my last car and it lightens the vehicle quite a bit.

ATE BALLER

11-21-2007, 04:23 PM

BUMPER SUPPORTS IN U.S. SPEC VEHICLES ARE ONLY RATED AND TESTED FOR 5 MPH CRASHES!! THEY ARE THER TO PROTECT THE RADIATOR AND CORE SUPPORT, NOT YOU!!

Looks descent, but I would remove the whole bumper support, reposition the innercooler to be about 1/4" from the openning, and make a mesh grille painted black.

Rican219

11-21-2007, 04:35 PM

LOOKS GREAT!!!I know it's not completed so can't wait till it's done. I will be doing the same.

Killer

11-21-2007, 04:58 PM

BUMPER SUPPORTS IN U.S. SPEC VEHICLES ARE ONLY RATED AND TESTED FOR 5 MPH CRASHES!! THEY ARE THER TO PROTECT THE RADIATOR AND CORE SUPPORT, NOT YOU!!

Link?

Raynman

11-21-2007, 05:32 PM

BUMPER SUPPORTS IN U.S. SPEC VEHICLES ARE ONLY RATED AND TESTED FOR 5 MPH CRASHES!! THEY ARE THER TO PROTECT THE RADIATOR AND CORE SUPPORT, NOT YOU!!

I beg to differ. This diagram from Mazda says differently.

mazdaspeedwerx

11-21-2007, 06:15 PM

there isnt a company that offers a replacement bumper to support the core? perrin sold a kit for the msp that had one.

PerformanceRacing

11-21-2007, 06:43 PM

Yeah, like Forge Motorsport kits, I was at the Forge shop/warehouse a few months back and he showed me a FMIC for an A4, included a custom bumper support, fmic, piping, etc.

Again... third time, I KNOW this will weaken the front end and cause more of a risk. That is a risk I am willing to take. I put the OEM Grille back on and looks like it did before... and it is straightened out.

mazdaspeedwerx

11-21-2007, 07:10 PM

if you do get into an accident have insurance and there will be no worries about. they will pay for the damage

Killer

11-21-2007, 07:11 PM

I beg to differ. This diagram from Mazda says differently.Thats why I asked for a link to verify the statement.

Also...who in there right mind would buy a used car that a hacksaw blade had been taken to the front end???

Killer

11-21-2007, 07:12 PM

if you do get into an accident have insurance and there will be no worries about. they will pay for the damageNot if they find out he took a saw to the bumper they wont...and guess what? The body shop estimate will point that right out.

Maxx Mazda

11-21-2007, 08:32 PM

Not if they find out he took a saw to the bumper they wont...and guess what? The body shop estimate will point that right out.

Interesting point. In theory, if he was to be at fault in an accident and the other party was injured, could they not sue him for having his car be "unsafe" or something? That wouldn't happen up here, but I know Americans are sue-crazy... In theory, would they have the right?

Killer

11-21-2007, 09:05 PM

I really dont know..I am not a lawyer.

autoxes

11-21-2007, 09:15 PM

unless the part in question was the direct cause of the accident, then no.

Now, if the jagged hacksawed piece flew off and cut off the head of a bystander, Final Destination style, he MAY be liable.

zach21087

11-21-2007, 09:50 PM

I like it

zach21087

11-21-2007, 09:51 PM

Now, if the jagged hacksawed piece flew off and cut off the head of a bystander, Final Destination style, he MAY be liable.

as tragic as that would be it would also be kinda awesome

Raynman

11-21-2007, 10:00 PM

unless the part in question was the direct cause of the accident, then no.

Now, if the jagged hacksawed piece flew off and cut off the head of a bystander, Final Destination style, he MAY be liable.

I'm thinking the other way around. The insurer might not feel that it has a responsibility to cover any damages and injuries as a result of a front collision, because they may argue that the owner of the vehicle has compromised an important piece of safety equipment.

But then again, I'm speculating.

mdogg

11-21-2007, 10:44 PM

Interesting point. In theory, if he was to be at fault in an accident and the other party was injured, could they not sue him for having his car be "unsafe" or something? That wouldn't happen up here, but I know Americans are sue-crazy... In theory, would they have the right?
I'm really not sure how removing this small amount of the front bumper would be "unsafe" for the person he hits at 40mph.... maybe himself (but I doubt even that). I think the full vs. cut support would do about the same good at 40mph. But honestly, unless you are a mechanical engineer..... good luck proving it either way!

AJ08

11-21-2007, 10:50 PM

i like it and if you like it thats all that matters.. its you car

amp

11-21-2007, 11:00 PM

id have fabricated ducting to direct some of the air to flow to the area instead..

chriscecc914

11-21-2007, 11:49 PM

The big front mount look is intimidating and makes any car look 100 times better unless of course ur going for the sleeper look which most ms6 owners are going for.

Igve2shtz

11-22-2007, 01:29 AM

From an engineering standpoint:

Given the fact that I dont know dimensions, nor do I know material used, and given fact that its a unibody, and forces are directed and distributed throughout the entire structure, it would be very difficult to say how profound an effect this would have on structural integrity ... But it WILL have an effect on structural integrity.

If you were to get into a front-end collision, you would be transferring the entire force throughout an area only 1/2 that originally designed. That would double all the stresses on the steel, and joints, and reinforcements causing failures. So, instead of a steel bar absorbing and distributing the impact, the force of the impact will be absorbed by 1/2 a crash bar, your radiator, your engine block and intake manifold. Just hope that it is a head-on collision, and not an offset collision.

But, without extensive modeling, thats debateable.

If it were me? I would weld in some gussets and fill in that box-frame that you cut through. Actually, if it were me, I wouldnt have done it to begin with. You dont need an intercooler that big. But in the meantime, it looks wicked bad-ass, and drive safe.

And from a Legal standpoint: If a bodyshop were to notice this modification after you were in a front end collision, any lawyer fresh out of lawschool could argue that you modified the safety of the vehicle, and that without proper state validation/verification/approval is not street legal, and does not deserve to be on the road. Thus, the accident should have never happened, and you are left with a ruined vehicle. But, thats only if lawyers get involved.

BoostedSpd6

11-22-2007, 02:17 AM

this looks awesome.. IMO make a custom grille for it or customize your stock one and it would look rlly good.. i wonder what it would look like if i did this with cpe's intercooler installed..that support doesnt do crap but protect the radiator anyways if ur going thirty mph or more chances are ud lose the part he cut..plus thats what airbags are for.

Raynman

11-22-2007, 02:35 AM

...that support doesnt do crap but protect the radiator anyways if ur going thirty mph or more chances are ud lose the part he cut..

Like Killer said, what's your source on this?

...plus thats what airbags are for.

Airbags can't save you or your legs when an engine block is coming into the passenger compartment.

evo'skickass

11-22-2007, 02:45 AM

completely ruined the appeal of the car, but if you like it..........

Maxx Mazda

11-22-2007, 11:18 AM

there isnt a company that offers a replacement bumper to support the core? perrin sold a kit for the msp that had one.

Perrin's required you to cut the bumper, they jsut added a reinforcement on the top edge to keep it from flapping. It still was never a proper bumper.

PerformanceRacing

11-22-2007, 01:34 PM

Thanks for the compliments folks.

Again, I and anyone with a brain knows this does make the front end weaker,it's common sense.

But I am sure cutting a small part of the bar wont make a big difference when you're in a collision where the engine will be forced into the cabin area.

Also,yes, I am going to fab the stock grille or create my own. But for now,the stock grille is back on and looks no different than the attached images in the first post.

In a legal standpoint - I don't give a shyt to be honest. If I had an STi or any car that has an FMIC kit that comes with an replacement bumper,it is still considered modifying the bumper.. But this thread is not to argue about the structural integrity..

Once I get time to make a grille,I'll definitely update this thread :)

RoadRage

11-22-2007, 03:31 PM

why not just reweld a bar accrost the bottlom of the removed area and the fill the bumper with high density foam?

this would actualy provide more support in a crash than the stock bumper.

i think it looks good

mazdaspeedwerx

11-22-2007, 07:06 PM

Perrin's required you to cut the bumper, they jsut added a reinforcement on the top edge to keep it from flapping. It still was never a proper bumper.

I installed my perrin kit and didnt cut the bumper. it has a replacement bar that comes with the kit. the bumper is sitting in my garage uncut. there was some cutting but not the bumper. you guys should talk to perrin for a kit. they have quality kits for other cars. there is an apparant market for a 6

Igve2shtz

11-22-2007, 09:32 PM

Oh ya, I forgot to mention:

Mad props for the custom intercooler.

VRMS6

11-24-2007, 08:19 AM

Black mesh would look better than no mesh...

BoostedSpd6

11-25-2007, 01:48 AM

Like Killer said, what's your source on this?

Airbags can't save you or your legs when an engine block is coming into the passenger compartment.

dude common the engine is not going to end up in ur lap if he just cut out a relativly small part of the support out...

also i think the idea for the expanding foam is good..+1 on that.

cant wait to see this updated.. and ill prolly do it too.

Dr. D

11-25-2007, 08:53 PM

not going to cut my bumber like that but at most it is a 10 - 15 mph bumber so after that it is pointless

PerformanceRacing

11-25-2007, 10:28 PM

Dr. D is right, most cars are only rated for like 5-15mph.

Friend's dad hit a tree in his Corolla at about 30mph, or less. The beam was bent badly and looked like he was goin 60+

PerformanceRacing

11-25-2007, 10:29 PM

Oh, I've decided to modify the stock grille, will purchase a new one or if anyone has an extra please PM me, with black mesh.

Raynman

11-25-2007, 11:13 PM

dude common the engine is not going to end up in ur lap if he just cut out a relativly small part of the support out...

For one thing, it's a sizeable chunk of the structure.

Did you even look at the diagram on page 2 that I posted showing how that part distributes collision forces in the crumple zone from the front and distributes it around the engine?

I don't you guys appreciate what amount of shock a frame absorbs and transmits. Impact shock, shear shock, elastic shock and so forth. I will echo a statement that pointed out recommending going to a very competent welding shop to have a box welded to at least shore up the piece, but even that won't have any guarantees of performing as well as the stock piece.

Friend's dad hit a tree in his Corolla at about 30mph, or less. The beam was bent badly and looked like he was goin 60+

Just because it was bent badly, doesn't mean that it didn't do its function properly as part of the crumple zone.

To me it just boils down to this: Is a couple of degrees of cooler air charge worth the peace of mind?

PerformanceRacing

11-25-2007, 11:44 PM

I am new here, but not new to the online community. I have been on 6club since 2003, but doesn't matter lol

There's nothing to fix reallly.

BoostedSpd6

11-26-2007, 03:37 AM

ok im gonna show u some support here since everyone is pretty much bashing u for doing this..im doing it as well over the winter so u wont be the only one who has done it... may i point out that most DSM's with the big FMIC's dont have the front crash bar on the car at all.. ive seen about 7 myslef that dont have it.. so this cutting isnt so bad compared to other cars and what they have to do.i mean u couldve just removed the whole crash bar, probably would make the car handle better..but u cut it, not so bad IMO

PerformanceRacing

11-26-2007, 03:59 PM

I not the first to do this either. I knew if I posted this, I would get opinions and comments, that is part of the reason I posted it, no worries.

I don't care about 'structural integrity' because the impact is not significant.

Dr. D

11-26-2007, 05:28 PM

kurfgator

11-26-2007, 06:30 PM

Why dont you go back and weld in thick plate to box the support back in? It might not be OEM strong but it would have to make a difference.

ATE BALLER

11-26-2007, 06:44 PM

Why dont you go back and weld in thick plate to box the support back in? It might not be OEM strong but it would have to make a difference.

Likely stronger. Kind of like putting a crimped edge on sheet metal. Deffinately harder to bend. With more horizontal surface area, an impact would be absorbed more by the bar, and not be redistributed to the rest of the structure.

Rican219

11-28-2007, 05:51 PM

id have fabricated ducting to direct some of the air to flow to the area instead..
More info please

BoostedSpd6

11-29-2007, 12:53 AM

PerformanceRacing

11-29-2007, 02:00 AM

Member whoosh, I am not sure is he is on this forum or not,but his FMIC is similar to that of CP-Es.

BoostedSpd6

11-29-2007, 02:54 AM

oo ok.. hes on here.. i think yours looks better i dont like the sleeper look.. its good to see what both options look like though

wipedawg

11-29-2007, 02:17 PM

Well it looks like ass... sorry. Maybe look into a different front bumper for the car that hides the sides of that intercooler, and you probably aren't pushing enough boost to need the rest of the fmic anyways... but to each his own. Another option you have is to paint the intercooler black to go more stealth.

chriscecc914

11-29-2007, 03:11 PM

who gets in front-end collisions anymore anyways? lol j/k

whooosh

11-29-2007, 03:29 PM

Another option you have is to paint the intercooler black to go more stealth.

like this?
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p302/_whooosh_/DSC01658.jpg

that_guy

12-02-2007, 04:49 AM

Unless you go bigger turbo, more boost, etc there is no need for FMIC with these cars.

Killer

12-02-2007, 10:08 AM

Unless you go bigger turbo, more boost, etc there is no need for FMIC with these cars.

Thank you.(hi)

mdogg

12-02-2007, 11:30 AM

Unless you go bigger turbo, more boost, etc there is no need for FMIC with these cars.
only if you are completely ignoring the heatsoak issues..... (gtfo)

jbspeed6

12-02-2007, 05:39 PM

Any updated pics, Pathik?

baseballd2

12-02-2007, 06:45 PM

looks sick thats how a fmic should look IMO.

PerformanceRacing

12-02-2007, 08:25 PM

BoostedSpd6

12-02-2007, 09:14 PM

I've already got 17lbs boost on the GT3071R I have in the car. The stock TMIC, and even the ETS tmic are always subject to much more heat than an FMIC.

Will be doing a tune for 19psi once I get the EMS installed, tuned, with the fuel pump as well. At 19lbs, holding to redline, I expect nearly 380whp, stock internals.

I have yet to even get any black mesh, gotta get to AutoZone and see what size they got and just paint it black.. I don't know yet.

dude just a concern ken mentioned that he wouldnt trust the internals nor the car at anything over 350whp.. i just dont wanna see u joining the group of blown up motors.. id stay at 17 personally but just giving u a heads up.

PerformanceRacing

12-03-2007, 12:16 AM

Well I will have two maps.. one for about 16.5/17lbs and one for 19. But you're right, don't think I haven't taken the ability of the internals into consideration.

I still have not even tuned or installed the Standback in my car. I drive it like I stole the beast, so hopefully I can get back on the track next week, once I install my coilovers. I am getting fuel cut at about 15.5lbs, so I will turn the boost down to 15 and get it on the track, un-tuned. Hope to get mid 12's. I haven't launched the car in almost 4 months, because my rear wheels rub like crazy. And I always sucked at launching. My best time on this turbo was 13.4 at 16lbs, 2.0 60', un-tuned, hitting fuel cut 3-4 times down the track, lol.

Once tuned at 17lbs, and I get the fuel pump in, I should be running low 12's, or perhaps high 11s.

mrlilguy157

12-03-2007, 01:54 AM

like this?
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p302/_whooosh_/DSC01658.jpg

uh..... is that painted or powdercoated?

whooosh

12-03-2007, 08:36 AM

Thank you.(hi)

Originally Posted by that_guy
Unless you go bigger turbo, more boost, etc there is no need for FMIC with these cars.

well boys....some people like to mod their cars. Some people don't complete - or can't complete all the mods at once
so most guys that have a FMIC like me will someday be running a larger turbo
but thanks for the educational comments. They are so uplifting

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p302/_whooosh_/DSC02104.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p302/_whooosh_/DSC02097.jpg

Target:STi

12-03-2007, 11:54 AM

PerformanceRacing

12-03-2007, 07:37 PM

I found a mesh 'bolt-on' grille,its new on ebay... nobody has posted about this one before so mine as well...

http://images.andale.com/f2/109/130/17437461/2007/11/22/M76229Tu2.jpg

$127 shipped, OUCH. Of course I would paint it all black. But I want a mesh where the "threads" are too close.

whooosh

12-04-2007, 10:47 AM

uh..... is that painted or powdercoated?

"lightly" spray painted

whooosh

12-04-2007, 10:53 AM

i think it looks sick. i dont know why you would go to all that trouble to show it off and then paint it black like someone suggested.
is there any possible way to maybe put it from of the bumper support and cutting the plastic off the bumper itself? i havent taken mine off so i have no idea.

sick = good or bad? I can't keep up with you youngsters anymore with terms
I didn't go through any trouble to show anything off. I did however mount the IC in the front to assist airflow and have a higher flowing and more capable IC for future power upgrades.

I'm not sure what you are asking about the bumper support but I can tell you that mounting the IC behind it is really your only option unless you have a very small/short side to side configuration

I opted to cut my bumper support to allow the entire bar/plate suface to be open to air
I have my stock grill on there yet which actually blocks the bumper support area I cut out but thats only temporary
I'll be modding a factory grill to allow airflow to the entire core
You probably won't know its done unless you are looking for it though which is what I want.

Target:STi

12-04-2007, 03:30 PM

sick= nice
yea i like the look of a big ass intercooler showing. i still would like to know if theres any possible way of doing this without cutting the crash bar

gooniac33

12-10-2007, 10:55 PM

Gonna have to agree with ^ this man

and I agree X3. If it don't fit then cutting on the plastic bumper cover is ok. But not on the actual frame of the bumper itself. You have more power but less strength. Not a good trade off in my book....

BoostedSpd6

12-11-2007, 01:07 AM

sick= nice
yea i like the look of a big ass intercooler showing. i still would like to know if theres any possible way of doing this without cutting the crash bar

id say no at this point.. even my CP-E FMIC has its top end tank behind the support alittle. the only way to show it would be to cut it..